Really like the fact that he wasn't afraid of answering any question and his explanations were detailed, yet still easy to understand. Hope that the scenery improvements aren't too far away, competition is always good
outstanding interview! Thanks to all for making this possible, you both blu and XP, and also Ben and Thompson for taking your time, answering all questions very detailed and indepth. Ignore those people wanting to devalue X-Plane, by comparing it to AAA-mega production with Microsoft as a funder and a bunch of more than 500 team members. YOU made the superior flight model and physical experience. MSFS is more of the gamy and scenery/visual driven Sim. Keep on sorting out the issues and do not stop building your own vision of what is meant to be a flight simulator. Best time ever for Simmers to have two different enthusiastic Sims with each having their own focusses.
It’s surprising how much hate some people have for X-Plane. I got MSFS on day one and have most of the high-level planes for it, but X-Plane is where I truly feel the planes fly as they should. The ground handling is also much better in X-Plane. Every single default airport looks impressive, and I appreciate the seasonal changes too. I enjoy MSFS, but I love X-Plane. Guys keep up the great work and don’t listen to the hate. Sorry to all the haters!
One thing Xplane does better is airport layouts. MSFS non handcrafted airports are a disgrace. They better fix this crap. Floating jetways, misaligned taxiway markings and parking it's unacceptable especially at the price. Regarding XPlane the only hate I have is that Austin refuses to upgrade the sim to be on par. He's been asked before if he'd partner with Google to do something similar like asobo does with Bing maps and he pretty much says up close buildings look like a zombieland on msfs so no. And he's not wrong in some areas it looks bad but with improvements to AI this can improve. Xplane has the physics but it lacks enthusiasm and as someone who is lucky to fly once or twice a week I get more enjoyment on msfs.
Stop the hyperbole. Every single airport looks impressive? My local airports look like complete dog water in XP12. And the Caribbean looks like the Pacific northwest instead of a tropical zone. It's ok to like XP12 but limit the exaggeration.
@tubeloobs same applies to msfs which I fly too....totally disappointing scenery wise. DCS is still the best sim upto date. Msfs is for the XBOX crowd ....read kiddo's
As an XP user (and amateur scenery developer) of 2 years, my wish list is: 1. More realistic scenery 2. More warbirds, both WW2 and jet age 3. An XP Academy that provides understandable, practical advice for building scenery and aircraft Very happy with it apart from that, and I'd never go to MSFS
SimHeaven is pretty good. Where I live, remoteish part of the UK, it's pretty much on a par. MSFS has too many and dense trees for some reason (known problem). It's better but not that much better.
In regards to your question about commercial applications: We have an entire series of aircraft coupled with a prominent hardware developer that we license out to flight schools and pilots for training. AATD and BATD certifications. Our products are used by airlines and universities all over. It's huge and Worldwide! If you are flying at a school with specific aircraft we make you most likely will use our software in X plane 11 and 12. It's pretty rad to be apart of real World training.
Thrandra said in the XP org forum that more users have overall left XP, including XP 12, in the last 4 years since MSFS 2020 came out. XP 12 has not reached peak XP 11 numbers yet. Thrandra also said they are considering developing for MSFS 2020. Some XP devs are struggling now.
Given that MSFS 2024 will ship with a lot of aircraft similar to theirs by default, how successful do you think they'd be on that platform? Perhaps they need to re-evaluate what offer a customer before judging whether or not a platform is failing - ToLiss and FlightFactor seem to be thriving.... build something people want and magic things will happen.
Where would a mediocre third party developer get these numbers from? Laminar themselves stated that xp12 has been the most succesful launch they ever had. I trust their word more than of a third party dev who is complaining about their 15th cessna variant not selling as well as the first one.
@xWayvz_ Thranda is just looking for an excuse to go to MSFS. They don't sell enough to XP users. Maybe because all their add-ons are the same more or less.....turbo props all with the same sound and flightmodels. Their 172 was beautiful though.
I have not idea what those two are talking about... Thranda is definitely caring about FM and physics, more than some others. Also, what 15th Cessna variant? Thranda have 12 aircraft in their lineup in total (and like only three are Cessnas). Thranda is an established high-quality X-Plane dev.
Couple questions i have that I would love to hear direct answers on in the future. 1. When will light pollution from below reflect on the clouds as the moon light currently illuminates clouds from above. 2. When will the moon illuminate aircraft fuselages and to some extent cockpits at night. 3. When will aircraft lighting (landing/beacons) reflect off clouds.
I'm on Windows and got both and msfs doesn't even come close to X-Plane in most regards. The shine of the visuals peels of really fast and you will notice how lackign msfs is
@@xWayvz_ There is room for both Sims , as options are always good for the consumer. But X-Plane has my heart :). I only update MSFS2020 on my Xbox console every once in a blue moon....
I've made a conscious choice to run xplane natively on linux . Haven't regretted it through xp9 to xp12 . Made multiple around the world trips never to ctd once , the scenery looks exactly the same , the colours are gorgeous (especially in xp12 with open source mesa driver's beat windows by a log shot) .
Great video! I am an ex pilot and aeronautical engineer, did build a cockpit and am running 3 TVs and 3 touch displays around and in my cockpit. Am flying with 4 different a/c. I fly with MSFS and XP. Really prefer XP over MSFS. However since I am not and will never be a PC freak need from XP three things: 1. fully supported and automated installation of adons, eg by the store, since I am not willing to move files in directories anymore. 2. Better scenery at low and mid level flights (not single blade of grass when taxiing). 3. more compatible Air Manager Instruments/panels with XP (non of your business). What I really do not need are toys like in MSFS (challenges, careers ….) and surely not the hundreds of bugs in MSFS never solved. Looking forward to what will come from X-plane soon I hope. Regards
I fly both XP11 and XP12. The reason I still fly XP11 is VR resolution/anti-aliasing and FPS performance is much better. When I want to see better clouds and great lighting (but willing to tolerate lower resolution and more aliasing artifacts), I choose XP12. So I bounce back and forth. I'd like to see Laminar Research put much more effort into VR improvements and performance improvements.
I'm like you and I actually started using XP12 more and more lately as the performance has gotten a lot better. Thay don't boast about it, but they're putting the work in.
I wrote, a few years back, in a comment on the dev blog that they should use ortho data not to display it in-engine but use it a seed for a procedural engine of some sort to recreate it at a much higher resolution. And without the need to license hundreds of terabytes if not petabytes of imagery... NASA even has a Blue Marble Next Generation ortho dataset for free I think, with topography and bathymetry at 500m of spatial resolution, corrected for cloud coverage and with monthly (seasonal) changes. Also, higher res data, to some reasonable level, should not be too expensive for Laminar Research to buy or license, but that's just an educated guess... I said as well that the sim should look the same whether it is online or not. Stream if you want but if not, pre-download everything. Even if the entire world scenery would end-up being a few tens of terabytes, I imagined that they could, for fortunate players or flight schools for example, ship the entire world on a NAS or something equivalent, that would then be upgraded / patched online when necessary. Anyways, It's good news to know that they are exploring the idea to only use orthophoto as an input data source to generate high quality scenery. Hopefully it can work, because in order to make ortho generate a good visual experience, well, look at Microsoft and the amount of data, cloud and machine learning infrastructure and money necessary to make something stunning looking like MSFS2024. Not to mention the resources to be able to bring dozens of partners to build different parts of the sim. That's obviously out of reach for Laminar Research. Doesn't mean we can't appreciate what LR is doing with a much smaller team... It's going to be hard to compete against MSFS2024, if it is even possible, especially since it has now seemingly close the gap on about everything, almost. Especially physics / ground physics, lighting (photometric / PBR as well), similar gateway scenery incoming, etc. At this point, better for Laminar Research to differentiate themselves form Microsoft / Asobo, if that makes sense. Don't try to compete with them directly. Keep XP offline friendly, don't display ortho in the base product (leave that to addon makers) but use it to generate a unique bespoke scenery. And maybe keep a slight advantage in flight physics with very niche cases that Meyer will certainly come up with. At this point, there is not much more they can do against Asobo and the billions of dollars of Microsoft. Imho. EDIT: Except the pro market which is probably a significant part of their business, I know, before someone gets angry... :)
Great interview gents! XP was designed to use as an IFR training device. So scenery has never been Austin’s priority. If you watch his videos when he flies, he gets to altitude quickly where the “plausible scenery” looks okay. The scenery design makes sense when you look at it from that perspective. However, the user base doesn’t share the same use scenario. In GA and helicopters, the scenery being realistic matters more to sim aeronautical decision making. I fly DCS, MSFS, and XP. They all have their pros and cons. The scenery isn’t great in any sim at 1000’ AGL. It would be nice if they modernized the scenery format and catered to us low and slow GA users.
I feel like they don’t need to change their scenery, what makes MSFS unique is its graphics, pushing the possibilities of modern technology, what makes Xplane unique is it’s flight model, as it is the most physically realistic simulator, with MSFS still close behind, yet not at their level.
MSFS close behind XP12 in terms of flight dynamics and ground handling? Um, no f*cking way. I just switched from MSFS to XP12 and it's definitely not close. And to be fair the graphics in MSFS aren't that good either. It may look prettier, but not more natural. I remember I installed this addon that gave me powerlines. Except the AA/LOD on them was so bad I couldn't see much anyway. In XP power lines are very well visible even from farther away. The sunrise/sunsets still look cartoonish in MSFS.
I said flight physics, not ground handling, I’ve tried both sims and I’ve indeed felt a difference, but not an insane difference. MSFS is still behind, but they have been improving their flight model continuously. The graphics in MSFS use bing maps, which immediately makes it more realistic in terms of scenery. And yes, I agree that Xplane has a few graphical advantage, like power lines, tree models, road signs, etc, but ultimately, MSFS is better in terms of graphics. I love xplane, I fly in it a lot, but saying MSFS is extremely far behind is just wrong, especially with the new sim, which, from what I was told, feels a lot closer to Xplane.
This is a very very good stream it’s always good hearing from the people building the things we love to use . Thanks to the xplane team still my go to sim .. just started using the tollis a330
The problem with XP 12 is not XP 12 per se but the developers who ask very high prices for their planes and scenery. Many will say it's because X-Plane has such a small supporter base. That is exactly what is wrong with that argument. If the developers ask for more reasonable prices for their work many simmers will use X-Plane to benefit the developers in the long run.
Such high prices but the toliss a330 looks like its from 2010's and the flighfactor 777 cant do a full flight without bugging out. Im switching to msfs asap
@deneb80 or how flightfactor almost 8months since releasing 777v2 is still on beta and is still full of bugs. And its already. Been awhile since they last update that trashbucket of a plane
I doubt lowering prices for quality 3rd party aircraft would have a big impact on Xplane's user base. They charge what they need to charge. The market really is much smaller than in MSFS and there's no way around it. Even if you look at MSFS vs FSX/P3D, prices went down. Again, a much bigger market so they can charge less
It seems to me that all those haters/MSFS fanboys or what ever you wanna call them seem not to see is the amount of resources both teams have. Asobo is a team of hundreds of people and unlimited resources (money/satellite images etc.) and LR is a tiny team in comparison…David vs Goliath if you will. Yes XP has its issues which I sometimes hate and MSFS2024 is around the corner with all its amazing visuals and features so I’ll definitely gonna get it but I still hope LR will get those updates out asap and make XP great again. Fingers crossed
I strictly use msfs but fully respect xplane for what they've done. I briefly used xplane 9. Both are great. Unless you've flown a real. What's funny to me is when people talk about "realism." Most people have never flown an airliner or even a light aircraft. I can tell you now.. FS2024 is about to become as real as it gets. Visually.. its going to be gorgeous. That's also a part of the realism. The experience.
Interesting interview, full of good info. I'm amazed, reading through the comments, just how much negativity there is. It reminds me of the Fly! days comparing Fly! with MSFS. I can't believe that these people sat through almost 2 hours just to post their comments. If I have one negative comment it is that the interview was rather 'heavy iron' orientated, with little mention of GA and helicopters. I guess that's what their subscribers enjoy. Of course, any graphics or physics improvements will also filter down to GA planes and make the sim better for everyone. As a native Linux user, I really appreciate being able to fly X-Plane without having to re-boot into Windows 🙂and it is great to see all versions released together.
I enjoy msfs but I always find myself going back to xp 12. Flight model and physics are miles above the level in msfs. People don’t realize that with a couple free mods the sim looks almost as good as msfs. Also xp has Toliss and Rotate two of the best of the best developers out there. XP is still my favourite sim to this date.
Which is nuts when you think of all the money Microsoft throws at MSFS. 2024 has not improved much in terms of physics which is bloody infuriating. I wished Laminar and Asobo teamed up or Laminar somehow got the funding and extra staff needed to improve their graphics.
The size of the market will see Toliss go into maintenance mode, few new sales. The flight physics are not miles better in XP than MSFS nothing worth losing the advantages of enjoyment of the whole experience in MSFS.
@@trin162 My opinion is, and still is, that Microsoft have no interest in Flight Sims at all, but are trying to create an online copy of the world to game in (or whatever). This explains, for me, why so much goes into things like blades of grass, but the taxiways still are broken and the UI is awful, planes are hardly developed in 4 years (except by amateurs). As a low level VFR flyer I can't see blades of grass. And at airport level X-Plane is more accurate.
I fly exclusively in VR in a motion rig and xplane VR excludes the sim for me. If Xplane brought quad views, I'm in. Eye tracking and dynamic foveated rendering would huge. Please make that possible because you would capture the VR audience to Xplane.
Having owned every copy of MSFS since FS95 (as well as P3D), Xplane is THE BEST on the points that matter: -Stability, flight model and UI. I can shut down MSFS2020 one day, and start it up again the next day and suddenly for no reason at all my toe brakes stopped working, just like it used to be in FSX. Its a typical issue. Also it CTDs on me more than four times the amount of Xplane! So as much as I love the Fenix A320, I prefer flying Toliss or FF because they rarely fail me.
@@MrGyngve "-Stability, flight model and UI." - You clearly are an Xplane fanboy. UI in sim doesn't matter, you're flying mostly, and MSFS UI is great, it just matter of preference. MSFS never crashed for me, XPlane did. MSFS 2024 flight model is close to Xplane and water physics are better in MSFS 2024. All you need to do is stop living under a rock.
@@activex7327 Of course I am an Xplane fanboy, and you are an MSFS fanboy, who cares? I enjoy both sims, but for me I find MSFS troublesome were Xplane is not. UI matters in all software/hardware interaction. Saying it does not is like saying your smart phone only needs three big buttons and no touch screen because its mainly used for calling, texting, streaming and dead scrolling.
@@MrGyngve You are comparing phone interaction to flying a plane in a sim? LOL Do you know what you are talking about? Users always have to interact with UI on a phone to read/send information, that's what the phone is for. When you are simming, your hands are 99% of the time on the flight controls/and instruments, not browsing menus lol
Great interview and great questions. Would have loved to have seen some previews of the next gen scenery. The store install process sounds very promising, I can't stand dealing with the scenery.ini file and trying to fix mesh issues, it's good to hear Xplane is trying to take some of the pain points out of managing scenery. The default airports are so good in XP12 I would be willing to fly default airports if the mesh was better on the runways. Glad to hear the Laminar is using orthos to base their procedural scenery off of. I don't necessarily need ortho scenery to be happy if the scene is a plausible depiction of the world with accurately placed objects. Overall I think X-Plane has immense potential to be an incredible sim (and it does a lot of things exceptionally well like the flight model and the camera system/replay) but the performance and graphics hold it back from reaching its true potential. Would love to see Ben and Thomson back soon to show us what they're cooking in the Laminar labs.
Thank you guys for the interview ❤ I'm so thrilled and excited hearing Ben what the XP guys are developing, thats gorgeous, I'm lookinf forward to the "next gen xplane" 😃
I maybe only fly 5% of the time I would like to fly with X-Plane 12. Most important reasons? 1. Cockpits are in daylight black, outside everything is white! It's simply not possible to fly X-Plane 12 at daylight. 2. The weather engine. You only need a few clouds to have thunder lightning. 3. The overdone flight dynamics. Yes, a Cessna 172 get a lot of ground effect approaching the runway. A A340 at max landing weight does not behave like a Cessna 172! I had flights with the VSkylabs C47 and with a wet runway and crosswind I'm not able te get the plane straight. It skidded of the runway. These behaviors ar e overdone in X-Plane. Actually the sim is only usable at night time with steady weather. As soon as I have the possibility to move to MSFS 2024 X-Plane will be removed from my MacBook. By the way. I use X-Plane already from version 4 in the 90's. So I'm not a beginner.
I wish xp12 code was written to take advantage of all cpu threads. I have a quite powerful desktop and still am forced to tone down settings to run at a consistent 20+ FPS. The cpu gets so hot I have to blow cold ice cube air to keep things manageable. Not normal!
Some good news here for us. I'm new to XP12 ,after a few years in MSFS . A month ago I couldn't wait to get my hands on MSFS 2024. After a couple of weeks flying in XP12 I'm not even too interested in 2024 anymore. But things like shimmering everywhere, including on water, or weird reflections, graphical glitches with clouds etc. all need to be fixed for more users to be attracted to XP12. P.S. I can totally see how this dev they mentioned (sorry, forgot the name) likes watching planes land in XP12. It's one of my favorite things to do, too!
Big thanks Guy for this great conversation with Ben and Thompson, I love Laminar team , they do what they do very well with passion and consistence for years. i'm flying only in VR, i'm glad to hear about performance improvement and the implementation of VRSS..
@@piloto_loco Exactly, you don't work for Laminar...so why criticize someone who does? Your initial comment just seems inappropriate. I'm not sure who this "Delta_Who" even is, but I certainly would not enjoy being called a freak.
The default GA avionics in XP are so far behind MSFS. MSFS has the best default G1000 (NXi), G3000, G5000, and G3X in-sim add-ons. You can't even buy a better payware version. The GNS 430 and 530 are also very good in MSFS. XP has a lot of catch up to do in GA avionics.
I always loved these guys' pioneer spirit .......one thing though,that makes me shunt away from XP more and more: for years now, I have spent a lot of money on third party addons ,trying to make X-plane look better …..I expected X-plane 12 to be an improvement on scenery and real world resemblance. (X-plane 12 still has German style autogen on mediterrean islands - example: way too many bright stupid yellow houses everywhere-). I understand now, they pretend they care, but they don’t .Real improvements come way too slow. I wonder if anybody at Laminar cares to read these comments.
Still the most enjoyable flight model sim out there, but whithout frame generation and other solutions to improve performance and graphics is looking really dated nowadays.
If MSFS 2024 flies and feels like MSFS, I'll continue to spend more of my time in X-Plane. Pretty graphics are all well and good, but there's something about X-Plane (TO ME) which makes it feel better as a flight simulator - it was the same with XP10+11 with P3D+MSFS. I've always preferred it.
Looks like 2024 has figured out the ground physics and with the improvements to the flight model and performance and graphics it'll be my next sim. I will keep am open mind because I did have xplane 11 however I cannot sustain two simulators financially it's just not going to be feasible at least at this stage of my life
@MSDAviation_ remember you have third party planes. So you buy the sim and them most study planes will run you minimum 70 bucks. I can only one sim. Plus might get one or two sceneries. Lol I can't...I mean I can. But I rather spend my money elsewhere than on two sims🤷🏽♂️
@@MSDAviation_he wasn’t suggesting it was a subscription, but every single civilian flight sim is just a base for expansion, airports and scenery addons are still needed even in the new MSFS, which there are thousands, and then there’s aircraft and other bits of software to support it. It’s never one and done with these sims.
I've been using X Plane since its early 2000s but enough is enough with all the "superior flight model" platitudes. A simmer sitting on his/her gaming chair in the basement would know a good flight model even if it hit them in the head. To think otherwise it is pure delulu stuff.
Ben has worked with Austin so long, they speak the same. Lol..I love xplane, just wish it was less prone to crashes with the add-ons. I wonder if their intent is to have XP12 run a longer service life than 11 did?
i have both with p3d and use msfs 100% of the time the whole flight dynamic myth of xplane simmers does not exist anymore and you either evolve and innovate or you are left behind and xplane has fallen behind, you don't have to be any fanboy of any platform to see that....
I use xplane 12 only because my computer is 8 years old and cannot handle MSFS. Its safe to say, the day I upgrade my PC, Xplane will be used no longer.
@@antoniomaruge8218I don't think he's wrong imo, I feel like x plane's technology is moderately/Severely outdated and needs improvement... Heck I'm a x plane 12 and msfs 2020 user. But mostly I play msfs more then x plane and it's because I feel like x plane needs to be improved.
Google doesn't own all the imagery used in their maps. Look at the bottom of google maps and it shows copyrights from different vendors. If they get it from a 3rd party, then depending on the license they may not be able to re-use it for other products. MS on the other hand probably has it licensed in a way that states that bing map imagery can be used in other MS products.
I realized how superior to ms fs is xplane (in regard to flight dynamics) some 16 years ago when I started to fly for real and it was the recommendation of some of my instructors.
This is another factor that makes me stick we xplane, the human element of the developers, how many COMMUNITY QnA's take place at the will of the devs, nothing like microsoft where we dont even know who is making the game. Kudos to LR for their time to give us insight into their game
Thanks for the great interview. Looks like I was right all along and XPlane fanboys hated me for it (Goldgamer, frankbyte, hans). Xplane is years behind graphically and architecturally, and the future doesn't look good based on the progress. That's why Xplane fanboys will continue to be upset. DSF format, 20 years old tech, and Xplane fanboys did not want to believe me ... MSFS with the new release has already caught up probably to Xplane's flight model and the amount of planes/add ons make Xplane look abandoned.
Funny they mentioned the 'Star Wars' rain. Years ago I jumpseated on a 737 and it literally looked like Star Wars when we flew through heavy rain with the landing lights on
@danielmartinsson899 I didn't say it would die. I said it's relevance would be greatly diminished. That happened to some extent with 2020. It will only get worse with 2024.
@@tubeloobs XP wasn't particularly relevant before and under v10 either. XP11 was very relevant. Perhaps it's lower right now but that is things that change over time. Remember that MS basically abandoned FSX in a broken state not long after the release. We don't know where MSFS will be in 3 years.
I use xplane 12 only because my computer is 8 years old and cannot handle MSFS. Its safe to say, the day I upgrade my PC, Xplane will be used no longer.
@ I have an I5 and so it would run, but the quality of the graphics setting would have to be set too low for my liking. My other specs would also require setting on low. I can get Xplane to run from 25-45 fpm and have been fine with it.
Dude, MSFS works on medium settings on my laptop with 6th gen i7, 16 gb ram with Nvidia 960m. But x plane 12 doesn't even start. What are you talking about 😅
i've been an XP fan for a few years now, but the writing is on the wall for it (well, maybe the mobile version could struggle onward) if the current development pace continues... i'm honestly shocked that MSFS2024 is 3 weeks away and XP12 _still_ doesn't have motion vectors (TAA, DLSS, etc.) they simply cannot call XP12 a competitive product anymore and the gap is about to widen massively.
I don't like the idea of a xplane marketplace its pointless and it dumbs down the xplane platform as mod friendly program I really like to control my mods and install them myself, However if it means laminar get a bigger cut from sales that will be a good thing and also unlike microsoft laminar are pro open source so I am kind of hopeful.
They said the idea of the marketplace was so you didn't have to fool around with serial numbers all over the place etc but that they 100% were not stopping the manual management of addons either. Win win.
There's a reason why of the two, only xplane is certified for flight training. Why come and try to spoil our excitement for whats coming to xp? If you like msfs, stick to it, but it's a known fact and corfirmed by irl pilots that xp's flight model is better.
you gotta be kidding me. You're saying MSFS is as good as XP12 in terms of flight dynamics and ground handling? Come on man. Unless you know nothing about how real planes fly and/or physics, there's just no way you can honestly say that.
@@jGA526yes lots of persons own msfs now but what is strange I see persons who are new to flight sim sim msfs who are trying out xplane 12 and liking some aspects of the sim , so with such a tiny team and a diverse income stream they are staying alive and improving . Look at the clouds today they are just a good as msfs and flying at night looks better in XP to me
Yes indeed and that is a good thing....so mainstream average mainstream Joe's like you keep away from it. Why are you attracted to this video actually?
@@nukenabber7228 Mainstream?I was using xplane 9 lol then 10 then 11 then 12,Sometimes something better comes around and you just have to cut ties and move to the future.Its tough i get it,Just cut the cord quick and painless and join us in the future of flight simulation.
BS. They have no choice but to make the sim look better. Yes, that's mainly thanks to MSFS, so I guess thanks MS for making Xplane better for us so we can have a realistic sim that also looks good ;)
Bottom line - the graphics suck, and they are not doing anything about it. I doubt there are many new simmers choosing XP over MSFS. They are a sinking ship. Sure, simmers who have used it for years and have invested $ into their sim will continue using it. But new simmers? No way. These guys are living in denial. As MSFS continues to improve, and more developers focusing on MSFS, what is the value proposition for new simmers to choose XP over MSFS? I feel like I’m listening to a developer stuck in 2002 talking about the latest graphics. Until these guys have an honest conversation with themselves and choose to fully update their sim, I doubt anybody will be using it in 5 years. In business, if you don’t adapt, you die. The writing is on the wall.
@ yes I did. To attract new simmers, they need a wow factor. They don’t have it. MSFS has it whether you like them or not. As passionate as he was, I feel like they are living in a bubble. If you like XP, excellent! But be honest, how many new simmers are choosing XP over MSFS today?
@@mofoyul MSFS has a wow factor in graphics in some ways, but it also has some major shortcomings. Night lighting at default airports is shockingly bad for instance. Most of the airports in the game are terribly modelled. And the thing is... a small marketshare that pays the bills is all it takes to run a business. Laminar Research has plenty of revenue - who says they're even trying to compete with Microsoft? They exist at the same time, sure ... but they have massively different business models. Microsoft are reliant on income from gamers to sustain the whole ecosystem (which costs an order of magnitude more than Laminar Research's) so a lot of their content is geared towards that demographic. X-Plane are not, and their ecosystem is more geared towards developers and experimentation. It's also multiplatform (Mac/Linux). Microsoft aren't ever going to kill off X-Plane and I feel like the only people desperate for them to die off are people who can't get over the pretty graphics not being available... just don't use it then, use MSFS.
@@FPVStevewho said I want them to die off? Competition is good. The problem is XP is not doing a good job of attracting new simmers. We can talk all day about the positives of XP, but if they are not attracting new simmers, eventually they will fail like any other business. If they have moved away from the consumer market, then so be it. I know XP fans are passionate about their sim. Nothing wrong with that. But if new simmers are not choosing XP, what is the path forward?
@@mofoyul they're attracting enough to sustain their business. They don't need to attract as many as MSFS does. Arguably, Asobo are in a more tenuous position - their outgoings must be enormous, and the investment needs to be repaid, as well as those ongoing costs...
There is nothing Microsoft can do to take me away from X-Plane 12. Clouds are amazing. Toliss is the key.
Really like the fact that he wasn't afraid of answering any question and his explanations were detailed, yet still easy to understand. Hope that the scenery improvements aren't too far away, competition is always good
arent too far away? in XP world thats like 2028
Don't expect to see these scenery improvements any time soon. Most likely to be in XP13 or later.
whole lot of talking with little action is the xplane motto
This guy should be the CEO , he actually answered stuff without being a pompus git
Great interview! Thx Blu and XP!
outstanding interview! Thanks to all for making this possible, you both blu and XP, and also Ben and Thompson for taking your time, answering all questions very detailed and indepth. Ignore those people wanting to devalue X-Plane, by comparing it to AAA-mega production with Microsoft as a funder and a bunch of more than 500 team members. YOU made the superior flight model and physical experience. MSFS is more of the gamy and scenery/visual driven Sim. Keep on sorting out the issues and do not stop building your own vision of what is meant to be a flight simulator. Best time ever for Simmers to have two different enthusiastic Sims with each having their own focusses.
It’s surprising how much hate some people have for X-Plane. I got MSFS on day one and have most of the high-level planes for it, but X-Plane is where I truly feel the planes fly as they should. The ground handling is also much better in X-Plane. Every single default airport looks impressive, and I appreciate the seasonal changes too. I enjoy MSFS, but I love X-Plane. Guys keep up the great work and don’t listen to the hate. Sorry to all the haters!
One thing Xplane does better is airport layouts. MSFS non handcrafted airports are a disgrace. They better fix this crap. Floating jetways, misaligned taxiway markings and parking it's unacceptable especially at the price. Regarding XPlane the only hate I have is that Austin refuses to upgrade the sim to be on par. He's been asked before if he'd partner with Google to do something similar like asobo does with Bing maps and he pretty much says up close buildings look like a zombieland on msfs so no. And he's not wrong in some areas it looks bad but with improvements to AI this can improve. Xplane has the physics but it lacks enthusiasm and as someone who is lucky to fly once or twice a week I get more enjoyment on msfs.
Stop the hyperbole. Every single airport looks impressive? My local airports look like complete dog water in XP12. And the Caribbean looks like the Pacific northwest instead of a tropical zone. It's ok to like XP12 but limit the exaggeration.
wait till msfs2024😏
Msfs people are juveniles in general and full of testosterone....everything is a competition for them.
@tubeloobs same applies to msfs which I fly too....totally disappointing scenery wise. DCS is still the best sim upto date. Msfs is for the XBOX crowd ....read kiddo's
The most informative exposé Ive listened to on X Plane since I started using it in 2013
Great isn't it
As an XP user (and amateur scenery developer) of 2 years, my wish list is:
1. More realistic scenery
2. More warbirds, both WW2 and jet age
3. An XP Academy that provides understandable, practical advice for building scenery and aircraft
Very happy with it apart from that, and I'd never go to MSFS
SimHeaven is pretty good. Where I live, remoteish part of the UK, it's pretty much on a par. MSFS has too many and dense trees for some reason (known problem). It's better but not that much better.
What a great interview. The most informative I have ever seen about X-Plane. Thank you all.
Great interview. They handled the questions really well
this guy knows his stuff, I learned a lot
thanks for wrapping this interview up. Great job gents:)
In regards to your question about commercial applications: We have an entire series of aircraft coupled with a prominent hardware developer that we license out to flight schools and pilots for training. AATD and BATD certifications. Our products are used by airlines and universities all over. It's huge and Worldwide! If you are flying at a school with specific aircraft we make you most likely will use our software in X plane 11 and 12. It's pretty rad to be apart of real World training.
Thrandra said in the XP org forum that more users have overall left XP, including XP 12, in the last 4 years since MSFS 2020 came out. XP 12 has not reached peak XP 11 numbers yet. Thrandra also said they are considering developing for MSFS 2020. Some XP devs are struggling now.
Given that MSFS 2024 will ship with a lot of aircraft similar to theirs by default, how successful do you think they'd be on that platform? Perhaps they need to re-evaluate what offer a customer before judging whether or not a platform is failing - ToLiss and FlightFactor seem to be thriving.... build something people want and magic things will happen.
Thranda is more about looks then fysics and flight model reality......MSFS will be perfect for Thranda.
Where would a mediocre third party developer get these numbers from? Laminar themselves stated that xp12 has been the most succesful launch they ever had. I trust their word more than of a third party dev who is complaining about their 15th cessna variant not selling as well as the first one.
@xWayvz_ Thranda is just looking for an excuse to go to MSFS. They don't sell enough to XP users. Maybe because all their add-ons are the same more or less.....turbo props all with the same sound and flightmodels. Their 172 was beautiful though.
I have not idea what those two are talking about... Thranda is definitely caring about FM and physics, more than some others. Also, what 15th Cessna variant? Thranda have 12 aircraft in their lineup in total (and like only three are Cessnas). Thranda is an established high-quality X-Plane dev.
Couple questions i have that I would love to hear direct answers on in the future.
1. When will light pollution from below reflect on the clouds as the moon light currently illuminates clouds from above.
2. When will the moon illuminate aircraft fuselages and to some extent cockpits at night.
3. When will aircraft lighting (landing/beacons) reflect off clouds.
Thing of it is, for us Mac users, XPlane is the only sim we can use.
The same for Linux users :)
And that is why I thoroughly enjoy XP12
I'm on Windows and got both and msfs doesn't even come close to X-Plane in most regards. The shine of the visuals peels of really fast and you will notice how lackign msfs is
@@xWayvz_ There is room for both Sims , as options are always good for the consumer. But X-Plane has my heart :). I only update MSFS2020 on my Xbox console every once in a blue moon....
I've made a conscious choice to run xplane natively on linux . Haven't regretted it through xp9 to xp12 . Made multiple around the world trips never to ctd once , the scenery looks exactly the same , the colours are gorgeous (especially in xp12 with open source mesa driver's beat windows by a log shot) .
Great video! I am an ex pilot and aeronautical engineer, did build a cockpit and am running 3 TVs and 3 touch displays around and in my cockpit. Am flying with 4 different a/c. I fly with MSFS and XP. Really prefer XP over MSFS. However since I am not and will never be a PC freak need from XP three things: 1. fully supported and automated installation of adons, eg by the store, since I am not willing to move files in directories anymore. 2. Better scenery at low and mid level flights (not single blade of grass when taxiing). 3. more compatible Air Manager Instruments/panels with XP (non of your business). What I really do not need are toys like in MSFS (challenges, careers ….) and surely not the hundreds of bugs in MSFS never solved. Looking forward to what will come from X-plane soon I hope. Regards
Awesome show, guys - looking forward to seeing you guys again next Expo! (Jan from Germany)👍
I love X-Plane, it just lacks aftermarket support. More planes!
no money in it for the devs, player base is tiny and shrinking
Great interview. It's healthy to have multiple options and competition, I like flying both for different reasons. Looking forward to these updates!
i really love this podcast. keep up the great work guys!
I fly both XP11 and XP12. The reason I still fly XP11 is VR resolution/anti-aliasing and FPS performance is much better. When I want to see better clouds and great lighting (but willing to tolerate lower resolution and more aliasing artifacts), I choose XP12. So I bounce back and forth. I'd like to see Laminar Research put much more effort into VR improvements and performance improvements.
I'm like you and I actually started using XP12 more and more lately as the performance has gotten a lot better. Thay don't boast about it, but they're putting the work in.
I wrote, a few years back, in a comment on the dev blog that they should use ortho data not to display it in-engine but use it a seed for a procedural engine of some sort to recreate it at a much higher resolution. And without the need to license hundreds of terabytes if not petabytes of imagery... NASA even has a Blue Marble Next Generation ortho dataset for free I think, with topography and bathymetry at 500m of spatial resolution, corrected for cloud coverage and with monthly (seasonal) changes. Also, higher res data, to some reasonable level, should not be too expensive for Laminar Research to buy or license, but that's just an educated guess...
I said as well that the sim should look the same whether it is online or not. Stream if you want but if not, pre-download everything. Even if the entire world scenery would end-up being a few tens of terabytes, I imagined that they could, for fortunate players or flight schools for example, ship the entire world on a NAS or something equivalent, that would then be upgraded / patched online when necessary. Anyways, It's good news to know that they are exploring the idea to only use orthophoto as an input data source to generate high quality scenery.
Hopefully it can work, because in order to make ortho generate a good visual experience, well, look at Microsoft and the amount of data, cloud and machine learning infrastructure and money necessary to make something stunning looking like MSFS2024. Not to mention the resources to be able to bring dozens of partners to build different parts of the sim. That's obviously out of reach for Laminar Research. Doesn't mean we can't appreciate what LR is doing with a much smaller team...
It's going to be hard to compete against MSFS2024, if it is even possible, especially since it has now seemingly close the gap on about everything, almost. Especially physics / ground physics, lighting (photometric / PBR as well), similar gateway scenery incoming, etc. At this point, better for Laminar Research to differentiate themselves form Microsoft / Asobo, if that makes sense. Don't try to compete with them directly. Keep XP offline friendly, don't display ortho in the base product (leave that to addon makers) but use it to generate a unique bespoke scenery. And maybe keep a slight advantage in flight physics with very niche cases that Meyer will certainly come up with.
At this point, there is not much more they can do against Asobo and the billions of dollars of Microsoft. Imho. EDIT: Except the pro market which is probably a significant part of their business, I know, before someone gets angry... :)
Great video and great questions from the hosts!
Great interview gents!
XP was designed to use as an IFR training device. So scenery has never been Austin’s priority. If you watch his videos when he flies, he gets to altitude quickly where the “plausible scenery” looks okay. The scenery design makes sense when you look at it from that perspective. However, the user base doesn’t share the same use scenario. In GA and helicopters, the scenery being realistic matters more to sim aeronautical decision making. I fly DCS, MSFS, and XP. They all have their pros and cons. The scenery isn’t great in any sim at 1000’ AGL.
It would be nice if they modernized the scenery format and catered to us low and slow GA users.
Can't be anything but excited for what's coming to XP12. So so excited!
I feel like they don’t need to change their scenery, what makes MSFS unique is its graphics, pushing the possibilities of modern technology, what makes Xplane unique is it’s flight model, as it is the most physically realistic simulator, with MSFS still close behind, yet not at their level.
MSFS close behind XP12 in terms of flight dynamics and ground handling? Um, no f*cking way. I just switched from MSFS to XP12 and it's definitely not close. And to be fair the graphics in MSFS aren't that good either. It may look prettier, but not more natural. I remember I installed this addon that gave me powerlines. Except the AA/LOD on them was so bad I couldn't see much anyway. In XP power lines are very well visible even from farther away. The sunrise/sunsets still look cartoonish in MSFS.
I said flight physics, not ground handling, I’ve tried both sims and I’ve indeed felt a difference, but not an insane difference. MSFS is still behind, but they have been improving their flight model continuously. The graphics in MSFS use bing maps, which immediately makes it more realistic in terms of scenery. And yes, I agree that Xplane has a few graphical advantage, like power lines, tree models, road signs, etc, but ultimately, MSFS is better in terms of graphics. I love xplane, I fly in it a lot, but saying MSFS is extremely far behind is just wrong, especially with the new sim, which, from what I was told, feels a lot closer to Xplane.
This is a very very good stream it’s always good hearing from the people building the things we love to use . Thanks to the xplane team still my go to sim .. just started using the tollis a330
The problem with XP 12 is not XP 12 per se but the developers who ask very high prices for their planes and scenery. Many will say it's because X-Plane has such a small supporter base. That is exactly what is wrong with that argument. If the developers ask for more reasonable prices for their work many simmers will use X-Plane to benefit the developers in the long run.
Such high prices but the toliss a330 looks like its from 2010's and the flighfactor 777 cant do a full flight without bugging out. Im switching to msfs asap
It takes several hundreds of thousands of $$$ to develop a plane
@deneb80 yeah that hundres of thousands of $$$ and toliss cant even texture a decent plane for 90 bucks
@deneb80 or how flightfactor almost 8months since releasing 777v2 is still on beta and is still full of bugs. And its already. Been awhile since they last update that trashbucket of a plane
I doubt lowering prices for quality 3rd party aircraft would have a big impact on Xplane's user base. They charge what they need to charge. The market really is much smaller than in MSFS and there's no way around it. Even if you look at MSFS vs FSX/P3D, prices went down. Again, a much bigger market so they can charge less
It seems to me that all those haters/MSFS fanboys or what ever you wanna call them seem not to see is the amount of resources both teams have. Asobo is a team of hundreds of people and unlimited resources (money/satellite images etc.) and LR is a tiny team in comparison…David vs Goliath if you will. Yes XP has its issues which I sometimes hate and MSFS2024 is around the corner with all its amazing visuals and features so I’ll definitely gonna get it but I still hope LR will get those updates out asap and make XP great again. Fingers crossed
I strictly use msfs but fully respect xplane for what they've done. I briefly used xplane 9. Both are great. Unless you've flown a real. What's funny to me is when people talk about "realism." Most people have never flown an airliner or even a light aircraft. I can tell you now.. FS2024 is about to become as real as it gets. Visually.. its going to be gorgeous. That's also a part of the realism. The experience.
Interesting interview, full of good info. I'm amazed, reading through the comments, just how much negativity there is. It reminds me of the Fly! days comparing Fly! with MSFS. I can't believe that these people sat through almost 2 hours just to post their comments.
If I have one negative comment it is that the interview was rather 'heavy iron' orientated, with little mention of GA and helicopters. I guess that's what their subscribers enjoy. Of course, any graphics or physics improvements will also filter down to GA planes and make the sim better for everyone. As a native Linux user, I really appreciate being able to fly X-Plane without having to re-boot into Windows 🙂and it is great to see all versions released together.
Great interview. All power to Laminar's elbow!
Subbed 🎉
I enjoy msfs but I always find myself going back to xp 12. Flight model and physics are miles above the level in msfs. People don’t realize that with a couple free mods the sim looks almost as good as msfs. Also xp has Toliss and Rotate two of the best of the best developers out there. XP is still my favourite sim to this date.
Which is nuts when you think of all the money Microsoft throws at MSFS. 2024 has not improved much in terms of physics which is bloody infuriating. I wished Laminar and Asobo teamed up or Laminar somehow got the funding and extra staff needed to improve their graphics.
@@trin162 that would be nice.
The size of the market will see Toliss go into maintenance mode, few new sales. The flight physics are not miles better in XP than MSFS nothing worth losing the advantages of enjoyment of the whole experience in MSFS.
@@trin162 My opinion is, and still is, that Microsoft have no interest in Flight Sims at all, but are trying to create an online copy of the world to game in (or whatever). This explains, for me, why so much goes into things like blades of grass, but the taxiways still are broken and the UI is awful, planes are hardly developed in 4 years (except by amateurs).
As a low level VFR flyer I can't see blades of grass. And at airport level X-Plane is more accurate.
@@johnmaguire2185 i disagree. All msfs does better is eye candy really. Im enjoying xplane 12 more than MSFS. We will see once MS2024 is released.
I fly exclusively in VR in a motion rig and xplane VR excludes the sim for me. If Xplane brought quad views, I'm in. Eye tracking and dynamic foveated rendering would huge. Please make that possible because you would capture the VR audience to Xplane.
Having owned every copy of MSFS since FS95 (as well as P3D), Xplane is THE BEST on the points that matter:
-Stability, flight model and UI.
I can shut down MSFS2020 one day, and start it up again the next day and suddenly for no reason at all my toe brakes stopped working, just like it used to be in FSX. Its a typical issue. Also it CTDs on me more than four times the amount of Xplane!
So as much as I love the Fenix A320, I prefer flying Toliss or FF because they rarely fail me.
i have had 1 ctd in 4 plus years of using msfs,This seems like another case of user error unfortunately.
@ ok boomer
@@MrGyngve "-Stability, flight model and UI." - You clearly are an Xplane fanboy. UI in sim doesn't matter, you're flying mostly, and MSFS UI is great, it just matter of preference. MSFS never crashed for me, XPlane did. MSFS 2024 flight model is close to Xplane and water physics are better in MSFS 2024. All you need to do is stop living under a rock.
@@activex7327 Of course I am an Xplane fanboy, and you are an MSFS fanboy, who cares?
I enjoy both sims, but for me I find MSFS troublesome were Xplane is not.
UI matters in all software/hardware interaction. Saying it does not is like saying your smart phone only needs three big buttons and no touch screen because its mainly used for calling, texting, streaming and dead scrolling.
@@MrGyngve You are comparing phone interaction to flying a plane in a sim?
LOL
Do you know what you are talking about?
Users always have to interact with UI on a phone to read/send information, that's what the phone is for. When you are simming, your hands are 99% of the time on the flight controls/and instruments, not browsing menus lol
Great interview and great questions. Would have loved to have seen some previews of the next gen scenery. The store install process sounds very promising, I can't stand dealing with the scenery.ini file and trying to fix mesh issues, it's good to hear Xplane is trying to take some of the pain points out of managing scenery. The default airports are so good in XP12 I would be willing to fly default airports if the mesh was better on the runways. Glad to hear the Laminar is using orthos to base their procedural scenery off of. I don't necessarily need ortho scenery to be happy if the scene is a plausible depiction of the world with accurately placed objects. Overall I think X-Plane has immense potential to be an incredible sim (and it does a lot of things exceptionally well like the flight model and the camera system/replay) but the performance and graphics hold it back from reaching its true potential. Would love to see Ben and Thomson back soon to show us what they're cooking in the Laminar labs.
Thank you guys for the interview ❤ I'm so thrilled and excited hearing Ben what the XP guys are developing, thats gorgeous, I'm lookinf forward to the "next gen xplane" 😃
Also, the relief on Ben's face at 1:11:22... We all felt that.
There is this addon in MSFS that can turn off the co-pilot side displays to save some framerate. I wonder if that can be done in XP as well.
I maybe only fly 5% of the time I would like to fly with X-Plane 12. Most important reasons? 1. Cockpits are in daylight black, outside everything is white! It's simply not possible to fly X-Plane 12 at daylight. 2. The weather engine. You only need a few clouds to have thunder lightning. 3. The overdone flight dynamics. Yes, a Cessna 172 get a lot of ground effect approaching the runway. A A340 at max landing weight does not behave like a Cessna 172! I had flights with the VSkylabs C47 and with a wet runway and crosswind I'm not able te get the plane straight. It skidded of the runway. These behaviors ar e overdone in X-Plane. Actually the sim is only usable at night time with steady weather. As soon as I have the possibility to move to MSFS 2024 X-Plane will be removed from my MacBook. By the way. I use X-Plane already from version 4 in the 90's. So I'm not a beginner.
Interesting how physics, flight dynamics or flight modes have not been discussed. Graphics isn't everything in a flight sim.
I wish xp12 code was written to take advantage of all cpu threads. I have a quite powerful desktop and still am forced to tone down settings to run at a consistent 20+ FPS. The cpu gets so hot I have to blow cold ice cube air to keep things manageable. Not normal!
Some good news here for us. I'm new to XP12 ,after a few years in MSFS . A month ago I couldn't wait to get my hands on MSFS 2024. After a couple of weeks flying in XP12 I'm not even too interested in 2024 anymore. But things like shimmering everywhere, including on water, or weird reflections, graphical glitches with clouds etc. all need to be fixed for more users to be attracted to XP12. P.S. I can totally see how this dev they mentioned (sorry, forgot the name) likes watching planes land in XP12. It's one of my favorite things to do, too!
Big thanks Guy for this great conversation with Ben and Thompson, I love Laminar team , they do what they do very well with passion and consistence for years. i'm flying only in VR, i'm glad to hear about performance improvement and the implementation of VRSS..
Interesting how they glossed over that most major developers have said they won't go on the Xplane store
Where did they say that?
Imagine this conversation in 10 - 20 years..😮
by that time laminar will have closed its doors😂😂😂😂
@@jGA526 Well lets hope not.
I'll be 70 and one day old or 80 and one day old! 🎂✈🤘 Caketastic!
They will be long dead, literally looks like a PS3 game.
How’s VR performance now? I heard it was subpar initially.
Id like to thank ms/asobo for their recent release it is most certain to bring real simmers back to the x-plane sky's.
much better than the "Delta_Who" sessions, man that guy was a freak:)
Thanks :/
@piloto_loco, where are your X-Plane interviews though?
@@n8033fox mmh what? i don't work for laminar, if that is what you are asking. i am just a developer.
@@piloto_loco Exactly, you don't work for Laminar...so why criticize someone who does? Your initial comment just seems inappropriate. I'm not sure who this "Delta_Who" even is, but I certainly would not enjoy being called a freak.
@@n8033fox oh, you havn't seen him then lol. no problem. under normal circumstances i'd stand off doing that, of course. thanks for advocating.
The default GA avionics in XP are so far behind MSFS. MSFS has the best default G1000 (NXi), G3000, G5000, and G3X in-sim add-ons. You can't even buy a better payware version. The GNS 430 and 530 are also very good in MSFS. XP has a lot of catch up to do in GA avionics.
I always loved these guys' pioneer spirit .......one thing though,that makes me shunt
away from XP more and more: for years now, I have spent a lot of money on third party addons ,trying to make X-plane look better …..I expected X-plane 12 to be an improvement on scenery and real world resemblance. (X-plane 12 still has German style autogen on mediterrean islands - example: way too many bright stupid yellow houses everywhere-). I understand now, they pretend they care, but they don’t .Real improvements come way too slow. I wonder if anybody at Laminar cares to read these comments.
Still the most enjoyable flight model sim out there, but whithout frame generation and other solutions to improve performance and graphics is looking really dated nowadays.
If MSFS 2024 flies and feels like MSFS, I'll continue to spend more of my time in X-Plane. Pretty graphics are all well and good, but there's something about X-Plane (TO ME) which makes it feel better as a flight simulator - it was the same with XP10+11 with P3D+MSFS. I've always preferred it.
Looks like 2024 has figured out the ground physics and with the improvements to the flight model and performance and graphics it'll be my next sim. I will keep am open mind because I did have xplane 11 however I cannot sustain two simulators financially it's just not going to be feasible at least at this stage of my life
@@denziiey bro it's a one-time purchase what you talking about lol it's pretty cheap.
@MSDAviation_ remember you have third party planes. So you buy the sim and them most study planes will run you minimum 70 bucks. I can only one sim. Plus might get one or two sceneries. Lol I can't...I mean I can. But I rather spend my money elsewhere than on two sims🤷🏽♂️
@@MSDAviation_he wasn’t suggesting it was a subscription, but every single civilian flight sim is just a base for expansion, airports and scenery addons are still needed even in the new MSFS, which there are thousands, and then there’s aircraft and other bits of software to support it. It’s never one and done with these sims.
I wish you would go Military and compete with DCS
I've been using X Plane since its early 2000s but enough is enough with all the "superior flight model" platitudes. A simmer sitting on his/her gaming chair in the basement would know a good flight model even if it hit them in the head. To think otherwise it is pure delulu stuff.
Ben has worked with Austin so long, they speak the same. Lol..I love xplane, just wish it was less prone to crashes with the add-ons. I wonder if their intent is to have XP12 run a longer service life than 11 did?
HAHA I noticed it too
I have both xplane and MSFS and I use Xplane 12 80 percent of the time.
😂
i have both with p3d and use msfs 100% of the time
the whole flight dynamic myth of xplane simmers does not exist anymore and you either evolve and innovate or you are left behind
and xplane has fallen behind, you don't have to be any fanboy of any platform to see that....
@@pieterduplessis6906you have the right to be wrong
I use xplane 12 only because my computer is 8 years old and cannot handle MSFS. Its safe to say, the day I upgrade my PC, Xplane will be used no longer.
@@antoniomaruge8218I don't think he's wrong imo, I feel like x plane's technology is moderately/Severely outdated and needs improvement... Heck I'm a x plane 12 and msfs 2020 user. But mostly I play msfs more then x plane and it's because I feel like x plane needs to be improved.
I think X Plane should partner with Google to take on Microsoft. Google has the tech to give X Plane the scenery it deserves.
Does Google have an opinion on this? (Sorry for the sarc but they would be the major partner.)
Google doesn't own all the imagery used in their maps. Look at the bottom of google maps and it shows copyrights from different vendors. If they get it from a 3rd party, then depending on the license they may not be able to re-use it for other products. MS on the other hand probably has it licensed in a way that states that bing map imagery can be used in other MS products.
I realized how superior to ms fs is xplane (in regard to flight dynamics) some 16 years ago when I started to fly for real and it was the recommendation of some of my instructors.
And I’d hope you would be able to realize how totally irrelevant that is today
@@Finn-hj4jyhow is that irrelevant
This is another factor that makes me stick we xplane, the human element of the developers, how many COMMUNITY QnA's take place at the will of the devs, nothing like microsoft where we dont even know who is making the game. Kudos to LR for their time to give us insight into their game
@@konur3154 amen 🙏🏽
im pretty sure the microsoft devs do monthly live streams probably at a 5 to1 clip compared with xplane devs,Do you not pay attention?
@@konur3154 Microsoft is a solid wall you take what they put out and no interactions with the simmers who are just a source of $$
@@jGA526 clearly not, but I still stick with what I said. I can even interact with the devs in a discord server.
Wait, this is ridiculous. I love XP12 too but Asobo/MS do frequent dev streams
Thanks for the great interview. Looks like I was right all along and XPlane fanboys hated me for it (Goldgamer, frankbyte, hans). Xplane is years behind graphically and architecturally, and the future doesn't look good based on the progress. That's why Xplane fanboys will continue to be upset.
DSF format, 20 years old tech, and Xplane fanboys did not want to believe me ...
MSFS with the new release has already caught up probably to Xplane's flight model and the amount of planes/add ons make Xplane look abandoned.
Funny they mentioned the 'Star Wars' rain. Years ago I jumpseated on a 737 and it literally looked like Star Wars when we flew through heavy rain with the landing lights on
The amount of excuses for why Xplane looks horrific is staggering, come now
buy new glasses bruh..
I love Xplane
This next gen scenery sounds years away and XP12's relevance will be greatly diminished by then
That has been said about XP for close to a decade now. Yet it's still alive.
@danielmartinsson899 I didn't say it would die. I said it's relevance would be greatly diminished. That happened to some extent with 2020. It will only get worse with 2024.
@@tubeloobs XP wasn't particularly relevant before and under v10 either. XP11 was very relevant. Perhaps it's lower right now but that is things that change over time.
Remember that MS basically abandoned FSX in a broken state not long after the release. We don't know where MSFS will be in 3 years.
@@danielmartinsson899 but you know exactly where X-Plane will be in 3 years, right?
@@tubeloobs See my first answer
I use xplane 12 only because my computer is 8 years old and cannot handle MSFS. Its safe to say, the day I upgrade my PC, Xplane will be used no longer.
How come your PC can handle XP 12 and not msfs? For it's the opposite.
@ I have an I5 and so it would run, but the quality of the graphics setting would have to be set too low for my liking. My other specs would also require setting on low. I can get Xplane to run from 25-45 fpm and have been fine with it.
Dude, MSFS works on medium settings on my laptop with 6th gen i7, 16 gb ram with Nvidia 960m. But x plane 12 doesn't even start. What are you talking about 😅
@@umairasif15 the same for me. XP 12 was running like shit on the demo version.
i've been an XP fan for a few years now, but the writing is on the wall for it (well, maybe the mobile version could struggle onward) if the current development pace continues... i'm honestly shocked that MSFS2024 is 3 weeks away and XP12 _still_ doesn't have motion vectors (TAA, DLSS, etc.) they simply cannot call XP12 a competitive product anymore and the gap is about to widen massively.
Shame man Xplane looks so poopy it's mental
I don't like the idea of a xplane marketplace its pointless and it dumbs down the xplane platform as mod friendly program I really like to control my mods and install them myself, However if it means laminar get a bigger cut from sales that will be a good thing and also unlike microsoft laminar are pro open source so I am kind of hopeful.
They said the idea of the marketplace was so you didn't have to fool around with serial numbers all over the place etc but that they 100% were not stopping the manual management of addons either. Win win.
"Next gen scenery system" ? I feel really sorry for LR but the consumer sim market is just over for them.
its probably 25to1 msfs vs xplane in the consumer market now maybe even more.
The hoax of better flight model still strong I see.
As strong as the « hoax » of MSFS better graphics
microsoft flight game 2020
There's a reason why of the two, only xplane is certified for flight training. Why come and try to spoil our excitement for whats coming to xp? If you like msfs, stick to it, but it's a known fact and corfirmed by irl pilots that xp's flight model is better.
you gotta be kidding me. You're saying MSFS is as good as XP12 in terms of flight dynamics and ground handling? Come on man. Unless you know nothing about how real planes fly and/or physics, there's just no way you can honestly say that.
@@Cac340 No its not Xplane fanboy, Prepar3d is also FAA certified and is based on the FSX game engine.
I use XP since 10, LR has gone a long way. Yes MSFS looks better, and maybe always will. But XP is always ahead. XP all the way!
xplane is like a cute little project that got steamrolled by msfs
@@jGA526yes lots of persons own msfs now but what is strange I see persons who are new to flight sim sim msfs who are trying out xplane 12 and liking some aspects of the sim , so with such a tiny team and a diverse income stream they are staying alive and improving . Look at the clouds today they are just a good as msfs and flying at night looks better in XP to me
Yes indeed and that is a good thing....so mainstream average mainstream Joe's like you keep away from it. Why are you attracted to this video actually?
Was this a necessary comment? If u like msfs, stick to it. Let us XP users get excited for whats coming. Very immature of you.
@@nukenabber7228 Mainstream?I was using xplane 9 lol then 10 then 11 then 12,Sometimes something better comes around and you just have to cut ties and move to the future.Its tough i get it,Just cut the cord quick and painless and join us in the future of flight simulation.
@ some of these MSFS trolls seems to have an addiction to xplane forums like something is missing from the MSFS sim and they are searching for it 🤣
I feel like Xplane 12 was only released to compete with 2020. They had 4 years to concentrate on world building. They are now starting. A bit to late
nothing significant will change in xplane, keep away from it, got it.
BS. They have no choice but to make the sim look better. Yes, that's mainly thanks to MSFS, so I guess thanks MS for making Xplane better for us so we can have a realistic sim that also looks good ;)
@ it’s still a game at the end of the day…. Nothing virtual is going to feel like the real deal. You keep telling yourself that.
@@danielpena-un8vl wtf does it have to do with your original comment and my reply?
Bottom line - the graphics suck, and they are not doing anything about it. I doubt there are many new simmers choosing XP over MSFS. They are a sinking ship. Sure, simmers who have used it for years and have invested $ into their sim will continue using it. But new simmers? No way. These guys are living in denial. As MSFS continues to improve, and more developers focusing on MSFS, what is the value proposition for new simmers to choose XP over MSFS? I feel like I’m listening to a developer stuck in 2002 talking about the latest graphics. Until these guys have an honest conversation with themselves and choose to fully update their sim, I doubt anybody will be using it in 5 years. In business, if you don’t adapt, you die. The writing is on the wall.
Did you even watch the stream? They spent loads of time specifically answering questions about what they ARE doing about it 😂😂
@ yes I did. To attract new simmers, they need a wow factor. They don’t have it. MSFS has it whether you like them or not. As passionate as he was, I feel like they are living in a bubble. If you like XP, excellent! But be honest, how many new simmers are choosing XP over MSFS today?
@@mofoyul MSFS has a wow factor in graphics in some ways, but it also has some major shortcomings. Night lighting at default airports is shockingly bad for instance. Most of the airports in the game are terribly modelled. And the thing is... a small marketshare that pays the bills is all it takes to run a business. Laminar Research has plenty of revenue - who says they're even trying to compete with Microsoft? They exist at the same time, sure ... but they have massively different business models. Microsoft are reliant on income from gamers to sustain the whole ecosystem (which costs an order of magnitude more than Laminar Research's) so a lot of their content is geared towards that demographic. X-Plane are not, and their ecosystem is more geared towards developers and experimentation. It's also multiplatform (Mac/Linux). Microsoft aren't ever going to kill off X-Plane and I feel like the only people desperate for them to die off are people who can't get over the pretty graphics not being available... just don't use it then, use MSFS.
@@FPVStevewho said I want them to die off? Competition is good. The problem is XP is not doing a good job of attracting new simmers. We can talk all day about the positives of XP, but if they are not attracting new simmers, eventually they will fail like any other business. If they have moved away from the consumer market, then so be it. I know XP fans are passionate about their sim. Nothing wrong with that. But if new simmers are not choosing XP, what is the path forward?
@@mofoyul they're attracting enough to sustain their business. They don't need to attract as many as MSFS does. Arguably, Asobo are in a more tenuous position - their outgoings must be enormous, and the investment needs to be repaid, as well as those ongoing costs...
XP is dead!!!
MSFS fangirls are by far the most stupid group of all flightsims communities, let’s agree to call them kiddies, we see that again and again lol.
as dead as you are, probably lol
Not by a long shot. It still drives professional simulators. Microsoft isn't FAA or EASA approved.
True. MSFS is like a dead fish on the professional market. Already born death 😀
OK, you must know how that feels🤣
Wow, it looks like FSX in terms of graphics.
Great!
if you care about graphics go play a video game then, there are many of them with nice graphics
Wow another fangirl demonstrating the high IQ of his community. Great.
@@lquid737 Correct. He would be happy with GTA V (that is also a flight sim because you can fly aircrafts lol).
@@Hanslims Are you mad because now Ben told you your beloved sim is 20 years behind in tech? 😂😂😂