I happened to be situated next door to a retired US admiral while holidaying at a resort in Mexico the winter before last and being a retired army man myself (from Canada), we had many interesting and lively chats about all manner of things including this topic... the Chinese vs the US navy. He said that it is of the utmost importance to always keep a few facts in mind when talking about this comparison. While it is true that the US navy is still far more powerful, though yes, numerically smaller, than the Chinese navy, he said that the closer to its own coast that the Chinese navy is operating, the more lethal it becomes and the more vulnerable any opposing navy becomes due mostly to its shore based missile batteries. And any significant and serious exchange of fire between the two is going to happen in exactly this spot. The Chinese know this, they've always known this, and it is that premise first and foremost, that they have designed their navy and naval strategy around. As to other matters such as how smart and how bold are their admirals, how effective are their crews, their flyers, their tactics etc, he said that we simply don't know at this point. They could prove to be a complete farce, a world beater or anything in between but it would be a capital mistake of the highest order to underestimate them. Even total klutzes can do a hell of a lot of damage with that much gear. I asked if the folks in the pentagon are taking them seriously and his response couldn't have been less ambiguous...... "You'd f*ckin' A better believe they are!!"
Its almost like that's exactly why we've focused so much on stealth aircraft that make even those massive shore based radar stations useless, and are entirely capable of flying in from out of range and dropping ordnance on radar, air defenses, and land to sea missiles. Or longer range missiles that are harder to detect, smart enough to fly around early warning and interception threats, then coordinate with each other on final approach to maximize kill probability. Meanwhile china is still stuck on "surely we can break the laws of physics to make a missile go faster than a top of the line computer can move a few electrons and calculate an intercept! What do you mean the faster something is the less maneuverable it is?"
@@amorphousavocet1210 All you need is quantity, you can intercept 1-10 missiles but if a 100 come at you at the same time....Its kinda like how the Israeli Iron dome failed.NEVER underestimate your enemy,especially when you never fought him.I am pretty sure the pentagon is taking the issue seriously.
@@amorphousavocet1210 Ha! Some random radar operator in Serbia back in the Kosovo war, figured out how to detect our stealth F117 with Soviet gear from the 60's... we didn't even know the plane existed until the Serbs shot one down with 60's era Soviet AA missiles. Guess who collected that downed stealth plane... Russia. Just because the US claims that our stealth is undetectable, doesn't make it true. Flying sorties, untouched over the middle east for 30 years means nothing... especially when you consider that the US still lost. China and Russia have most certainly figured out how to detect our stealth, why else would the US need to be constantly designing new stealth tech?
@@havocgr1976this ridiculous myth needs to die already. Neither Russia or China has the industry or expertise to make that many missiles. Even if they magically did they utterly lack the ability to actually target ships at sea, and US aircraft have enough range they are under no obligation to let them shoot back. It’s not underestimation, it’s demythologizing
Yeah, and it makes me angry so many people do underestimate China. They have the population and resources. They have motivation and their government for all its woes can swivel faster than any Democracy. Anyway we shall see soon won't we? One thing China doesn't have is competent allies.
@@dianapennepacker6854...you do realize they're sitting on the verge of a massive unavoidable population collapse right? the long term consequence of the one child policy meeting their cultural bias for male children. Made worse by their current godawful conditions for citizens disinclining many to having children at all even if they're some of the few that could. The fools keep making it worse too, statistical predictions have reached a 50% decline by 2100. Long before then most of their population will be elderly, past working age and needing financial support. Less than useless in any conflict, and liable to cause a financial or social collapse.
@@dianapennepacker6854chinas wealth and power is gilded. In 25 yrs they’re gonna have a population crisis because they’re more old people than any other age cohort, plus there’s 30 million + single men who will never have a wife because of the effects of the one child policy. In regards to morale or motivation, the Chinese people have been made, for the most part, willing slaves to the party and system. If anything china should focus on improving the quality of life & infrastructure for its people before the whole nation falls apart at the seams. China is a joke. it counts on people believing its strong when it’s rly a house of cards
@gumpyoldbugger6944 no offense but I don't think that any of the countries targeted by the belt and road initiative can be considered "competent allies" atleast not in the militaristic sense.
Well yeah who cares about an ominous warning that doesn't apply to a time you'll be around to see? "A meteor will strike Earth in 500 years." Nobody will care in that moment. ✌
No reason for it not to. Since WW2 has been the longest period of global peace EVER. Was never this peaceful at any other point in history. It's a matter of time - not if, but when.
oh yeah for sure, probably best to gain some new skills to defend yourself and what not, at the very least some survival skills who the hell knows whats going to happen soon
Thats a little bit of a stretch if you really consider the two stories. Godzilla couldnt be meaningfully harmed by a human of size from 6 to 9 feet, even a muscular behemoth of a man. China could reasonably harm the US navy. They wouldnt win----weve got vastly better planes and missiles and drones and torpedoes-- but they could def put up a fight. Thats what makes the entire of the conflict terrifying. At some point one side will be too far apparently losing and nukes will be authorized.
The strikethrough is a misrecognition of an emdash, ignore it. Two '-' make a strike through here i guess, instead of an emdash, whereas on all reasonably programmed chat/forum/comment spaces its two '~' to do strikethrough/crossout
The war in Ukraine taught us that modern day wars arenot about sheer power anymore. Russian Navy could not defend against tiny drones and tiny kamikaze boats and we laughed about it, but our navy would suffer the sane faith if we went at war. Modern day technology can't really defend against those. Its not about size anymore, hopefully the U.S military adapted to this new reality and does not rely only on powerful warships. I mean i'm sure they adapted, if a dude like me is aware of it.
@@StayPrimal Nah because we have functioning CIWS. You have to understand three things to make this comparison. One, the Russian Navy is almost entirely composed of soviet ships and with the loss of Ukrainian assistance they've lost most of their naval repair assets. Imagine that. Two, the US has been watching the Ukrainian war. They saw it. They aren't blind to what it means. Three... Who knows what corners the chinese cut? They have more "boats" technically but a third the tonnage, and doing it that fast has costs. Just ask the 1,000 or so schoolchildren who died in shittily, QUICKLY made schools in 2023 when an earthquake hit
The thing is the Chinese navy is built only to be able to challenge the USN in the South China Sea. They simply do not have the capabilities to operate globally. The US would also never be going into a war alone with China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Taiwan, and Britain will be called in at the bare minimum. What allies does China have to call in? North Korea I guess?
Yes they were never built to operate far, even their airforce isnt built for that.I woudnt be so sure who would go along in a war with em though.And thats for a simple reason, WMDs.
One thing that I understood from watching video from Perun: China does not think it is equal to US in sea... but it plans to get there, and now they are in the middle of building that navy. China uses more money on buying new stuff, and they have more ship building capacity. However more they build, more they have to use money on maintanance, so that growth won't be infinate.
Secondly you can build a million ships. You can't just build a competent crew, with years of experience, or a history of naval traditions and understanding. China was never a naval powerhouse. Truly they are like Spain in the 1500s. Their lack of knowledgeable leadership and training will show.
@@DEC3TheWokeProject You can copy the practices and training from your rivals. I think no one, including China itself is aware how good or bad its sailors will be in a real fight.
@@masaheimoi what's the time of "practicing and adopting foreign battle plans?" Who's running the naval academy, who's orchestrating the training exercises, what real experience do these men have at sea, and with open water maneuvers. You can read a manual but yet not understand how to build off the design. Doctrines and ideology plays a huge role in these matters, and the Chinese approach is to force themselves into being a naval power without earning their stripes and taking their fair share of licks. No nation is invincible, the US can tell you that, but the strategy of one's nation could be. China will cripple itself investing so much into their navy, without needing to even go to war. China will fall to ruins due to its navy if it does go to war.
Not even that. Their steel quality is so bad their infrastructure is crumbling, never mind how crappy all the rest of it is. Lord concrete should not crumble in bare hands. There's already been multiple attempts to draw attention away from how much they're struggling to get enough decent steel to make a single knock off of one ancient outdated russian carrier. The US's strength isn't in its hulls or weapons, but in the industry and technology and experience needed just to build and maintain all that shit. The only real competitors are in Europe and elsewhere in Asia. Russia and china have basically neutered themselves via kleptocracy, while everyone that matters has figured out its far more profitable to just not fight each other.
@@protato911 You are correct, particularly in light of the basic 4 no's policy. The 2 nations have greatly improved relations in recent years, sincerely hope such efforts continue
@@team3am149 No, the US navy is as strong abroad as it is at home. Just ask the Japanese or any enemy of the British navy in the 18th and 19th century. Any navy worth its salt is a threat no matter what part of the globe they are on
@@canine555 Well the 3 blue water navies are. USA, UK and France. Everyone else just doesn't have the capability to strike at all places on the ocean with their navies.
As Ex Royal Aus Navy I agree. Having a fragile amount of targetable ports is a scary prospect for any nation with a war on it's doorstep even if they are the aggressors.
China have hundred of shipyard that can build gigantic ships. I bet they could be used for warship in war time. US shipyard is like an old man waiting to die
As the Chinese are about to find out, building the Navy is the easy part; maintaining it is a whole different story. Wait till the maintenance and upkeep bills start to pile up.
@@user-uy9zm8sf2y China's army and Navy is the laughing stock of the world , There Navy is full of untried and untested pampered mummy boys from China's failed 1 child policy who will Wet there pants at the first sign of conflict , there army is also full of fakes and copies of American tech , they would be Wiped out in any war with the West and They know it that's why they ain't gonna do SHIT !
Should do a video on Canada's fleet and how it changes between the different wars. Going from third largest to one of the smallest on the planet is quite a change.
What are you talking about? We have at least 2 dozen canoes in our fleet....and I'm pretty sure one of those Victoria class submarines we bought from the UK (after Pakistan rejected them) has finally been made watertight by now...or at least mostly watertight...as long as it stays on the surface.
It is my understanding that the more correct way to judge a Navy is not by number of ships but by tonnage, which the USA has the lead by quite a large margin
@@djgeorgetsagkadopoulos that's literally how you judge ships in fighting navies, which is why things like The Washington Naval Treaty dealt with ships being certain tonnages, as well as how we classify a carrier from a super carrier being based on tonnage.
@@djgeorgetsagkadopoulos So all I have to do is take a million canoes and strap a gun to each one and suddenly I'd have the largest navy in the world? that makes no sense,
@@DarthTrazyn I didn't claim that, but then again if I built one single MASSIVE ship, the size of Japan, that displaces double than all the ships in the world combined, and I stick a dozen of canons on it, do I have the biggest navy in the world ? After all, it's ONE ship :P
@@djgeorgetsagkadopoulos You're completely confusing biggest with best. Yes, China has the biggest Navy as they have several more ships than the USA, but the USA has the Best Navy, since it's more than twice the tonnage and three times the battle force missiles. Yes China has a bigger Navy, but the US has a better and more powerful Navy. Which leads to your comparison question, yes, if you build one singular ship the size of Japan, which makes it literally unsinkable in any possible way, and it has exponentially more times the battle force missiles and tonnage than every Navy in history combined, then yes, you would have the strongest Navy on earth.
I liked the old background a looooooooot more if you read this. Been following your various channels for MANY years. I think the coordination between channels via light color a good thing. Keeps things feeling professional and “on brand”.
There are some mistakes in the title cards and images. I've caught these: 3:35 Typo in the ship class name, should be "Arethusa" 4:30 This is not the correct ship-it's a Taiwanese Frigate built in the 90s of the same name 16:54 Typo- should read "Mach 10"
7:40 the term is green water navy might be more appropriate or at least a hybrid green-brown navy because a brown navy pretty much means that it's restricted to a nation's river network. An example would be the US in Vietnam when the larger craft would be stuck on the coasts
The biggest complaint out of the US military is that the air force can't mount the directed energy weapon on the AC-130j. Whereas it can be mounted on the new Ford class Supercarrier. A vehicle that not one other nation has. Nothing that even matches up to the old Nimitz class.
When did USA underestimate their enemies? In fact USA always overestimate their enemies just look how Soviet propagandas of mig 25 lead to creation of the most deadliest jet fighter ever the F15.
Great video! Thanks for the presentation. However, I think your editorial team got bunch of the background pictures off. They are at 4:33 (Wuchang), 5:22 (Soviet attaché), 5:37 (Chengdu), 8:31 (“top of the line missile pod”, but actually an unguided rocket pod from a Mig-19), 10:46 (showing a Kiev class cruiser carrier, not Varyag). Finally at 12:52, you mentioned that 039 was the first PLAN conventional sub to use AIP propulsion. However, the 039A, not 039, was the first class to use AIP. Otherwise, it is all good!
I am a Chinese and I see the comments made by native English speakers in the comments section, which seems to me very, very stupid and naive. Did someone say that when China was most powerful, the Tang Dynasty invaded Taiwan? Is this how your history is taught? Is this how Westerners study Asian history?
An important gauge for naval capability is “battle fleet tonnage” because sure you can have a plethora of boats but if those boats are glass cannons then there isn’t much room for error when it comes to strategy. I think the important part this video brought up was China’s willingness to manufacture which can be a problem for any military power to compete with IF not taken seriously. Still a fun watch though
Tonnage used to signify armors, which became irrelevant today. Even a drone can take out heavy cruiser nowadays pretty much negated the size advantage.
I find it funny that China first aircraft carrier feel like it’s at sea a whole lot longer than the Kuznetsov have ever been despite being launched later
The Chinese put in way more money and maintenance compared to Russia. The PLAN's biggest problem is that they are playing catch up, while Russia is speed running military decay
Building a ship is one thing, but maintaining it is far more important. Even the US is having trouble keep up with maintenance these days as the American domestic ship building industry has withered away. China on the other hand, now builds over 50% of the world's ships by tonnage, so they have plenty of capacity and manpower to keep up with maintenance.
China's real naval problem is a lack of allies, they have some business partners, but if at war, they become very lonely. China has to defend its coast as well as at least imports of food and fuel at times of war, and that would require an alliance of nations China doesn't have.
It is very confusing in a way with Chinese geopolitics that they have been highly antagonistic toward nations that have the ability to easily disrupt (if not close) water trade routes that are heavily relied on for said food inputs and energy.
True. While Russia, North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela are closely cooperating with the Chinese, going full in support during a war with Nato is less likely. Though I am more interested in their attempts to buy, charm and bully African countries and Pacific islander countries into possibly establish long term maritime bases to extend the Chinese naval reach
@@cynthiaherbst3909they falsely believe they are superior and can treat others negatively without consequences. It's cute to watch. When they have a real crisis, they'll get nothing but laughs from us.
@@NoNeedNoGreedwithout going into detail China is basically in the German Empire position during the scramble for Africa pre WW1 or Japan before WW2 they need a strong navy to secure resources abroad and challenge their enemies supremacy over water trade routes. Without it they can be choke to submission and as such a war is inevitable.
The US Navy starts from a position of power due to size and quality of ships. The thing that sets us apart is the 3M program. Preventative maintenance and training keep us fresh and ready. Realistically, these standards vary vessel to vessel as to how well it's executed, but the baseline is higher than even our near peer adversaries.
China's 2.5 (or 3) carriers is actually a lot smaller than the US' 11 when you factor aircraft capacity of each ship... China has 1 supercarrier (as Simon pointed out, not yet commissioned) and 2 standard carriers. Whereas all 11 of the US carriers are Supercarriers. The two standard Chinese carriers can carry about 30 to 35 aircraft each, depending on composition.. it's super carrier can carry approximately 70. Each US carrier can carry 90 on average (though typically only carry 64 usually of various types, but they can carry more if / when needed, depending on aircraft types). A single US carrier has more aircraft generally than both of China's standard carriers combined. And even their new supercarrier is still smaller than a US supercarrier. The difference in scale / power is immense.
China's goal is to dominate in its own back yard. The US is not going to send all its assets to the SCS. With the support from its land based assets, it is though to say whether the US has a winning chance at all.
@@elmohead I wasn't comparing them for purposes of carrier vs carrier, I was comparing them in terms of actual power 1 carrier can exert in a theater of war. 1 US supercarrier has more firepower than 2 regular chinese carriers and even more than 1 chinese supercarrier. So when you hear "11 to 3 strength" .. it's more like 20 to 3 strength when you compare the amount (and type) of aircraft each nation can bring to bear at sea.
China is also going to maintain at least 1 super carrier construction going until 2040. They’ll soon catch up & they have no real interest in fighting anyone until then
On paper it looks like that but in reality... You cannot defeat a shark in ocean and a shark cannot defeat you on land. The place of battlefield and geography plays the most important role in outcomes of a battle. US navy cannot win against China in it's own backyard that is South China Sea. Those tiny ass so called allies of USA will be toast against full military might of China. And the same for the Chinese navy. The farther it is away from the mainland, the weaker it gets in support and firepower.
We Chinese often say that the Chinese do not fight the Chinese, but the Taiwanese say that they are no longer Chinese and are humiliating us on our land and saying that we are despicable. It is enough for our Navy to hold back the United States and its allies until Taiwan is recovered, and we have never thought of challenging or attacking other countries to occupy.
indeed. they are a green water navy but trying hard to go blue. if they are unable to secure ports theyll never go blue...thats the real purpose of their BRI.
The Chinese Navy has maintained a constant presence in the Red Sea/gulf of Aden since 2008 with their Naval Escort Task Force (NETF) even with (at times) their older and crappier ships like the Luda class destroyers and Jiangwei II frigates (both of which are niw mostly decommissioned. When you include exercises and the ships doing their world tour after NETF, only the US and British maintain more ships on mission far from their coast. Additionally, China is one of only 3 countries operating cruisers ( by US NAVY and ONI classifications) and the only country building new cruisers. They don't HAVE to operate far from their coast, but they are perfectly capable of doing so at a small to moderate level
Smaller navies here in Europe can do that. They are all patrol boats and amphibical craft and missile boats with little aspiration abroad but decent at detering others.
The question is how viable do it how many shortcuts did the builders take is it truly up to par is the quality there or did they cut corners and the shops are less functional than they appear like most things in chija
You should do a companion piece to this focusing on china's maritime militia. You could also throw in their coast guard. I think that would help give a more complete view of china's disposition.
The Chinese coast guard probably has the largest and most modern fleet in the entire world. Their navy is building so many ships so quickly that just between 2013 and 2021, they build SEVENTY FIVE 1,500 ton corvettes for the navy, quickly realized that's way too many, and transferred over 20 to the coast guard before they even turned 10 years old.
Leaving aside the fact that 80% of it's navy's boats are significantly smaller than anything fielded by the US or Japan and can be destroyed by a single missile (launched from a sub or aircraft 300 miles away) I'm not slightly worried about China's "Navy". Maintaining a global Navy is very expensive and China's economy is in recession and headed for an economy ending depression. There are plenty to worry about before I worry about China as a global naval power.
@@OCS-vr7my How ya doing Vlad? Yeah, all 10 Nimitz class aircraft carriers are from the cold war, of course they are carrying 70 generation 5 stealth aircraft and their escorts include nuclear attack submarines. Russia has no air craft carriers and China has former USSR (cold war) carriers. lad, please continue this conversation so I can hand off your information to the Russian Bot killer Ryan McBeth
In which case the fact that the PLAN commissioned 8 Type 055 Destroyers in a span of just 3 years (2020-2022), each packing some of the most advanced radars on the planet plus 112 VLS cells shows they mean business. Also in that 3 year span, they also commissioned 12 Type 52D guided missile destroyers, each packing 64 VLS cells. That's not even counting the dozens of Type 054 Frigates they built/are still building with 32 VLS each. That's a lot of VLS launch capability in a very short period of time.
In the past 200 years, China has been rapidly recovering from weakness. Even 200 years ago, China was still a powerful empire. In ancient history, the West had never conquered this Eastern empire. The biggest threat to ancient China was the nomadic tribes in the north. In modern times, most of the nomadic tribes in the north have been driven away, and almost all of them have been assimilated. Once, the Han Empire drove away the Xiongnu people, and the Xiongnu people caused serious trauma to the Roman Empire! Only the Mongols ruled China for less than 100 years and were soon overthrown by the Ming Empire! The formation of China's territory today has also been obtained through countless wars! There is a reason why China can exist for 4000 years! No one should underestimate China!
China is still a very long way from becoming a world class blue water navy but given that they project themselves at that status until 2040s-2050s, they understand this as well which is an important thing to note. The thing that separates China from our other adversaries like Russia for instance is that China can learn & they can adjust when necessary. Their rise to power over the last 40 years is a testament to that. China's biggest issues do not primarily lie in technology but rather institutionally. Currently, the PLAN has little to no actual naval combat experience which they will need to build from the ground up & that is already a process that itself can take decades to firmly establish. Also, the PLAN is unsurprisingly having recruitment issues as well which will need to be resolved as well. There are papers from a few years back analyzing the progress the PLAN have made in this regard & there are signs indicating that they are indeed trying to mirror themselves ever more so upon the most eminent naval force on the planet both institutionally & doctrinally i.e the USN which should not be surprising to anyone. How far this will progress is anyone's guess however but until China can sort these issues out, despite the technological development, lack of manpower & experienced personnel will significantly detriment their operational capability. With that said, mission parameters need to be taken into account here which is something most people always look over when discussing this topic. While it is true that the USN maintains a significantly larger force, it cannot be anywhere on the planet at once & you will always have a handful of carriers undergoing maintenance in a shipyard somewhere. Unlike the USN which needs to maintain a presence across the globe, China just need to focus everything into one front that being the first island chain. We know that the PLAN also works in operating under their coastal umbrella which would serve as a massive force multiplier in a hypothetical confrontation with the rest of the Asia-Pacific forces.
China has about 125,000,000 more Missiles than US and it's Allies combined. If China chooses to go to war they have enough missiles to overload any Defense system that is protecting their sovereignty. This is why Japan, Taiwan, and Philippines should rather work economically with China and prosper instead of choosing the US / Proxy path. Island Nations are in no place to fight in a 21st Century war. I had the opportunity to deploy to "Balikatan Philippines" in 2011 when I was in US Army SOF. Amazing culture. So amazing I married a beautiful Filipino.
Sure, however, China's shenanigans in the 'West Philippine sea' have made negotiations with Xi difficult. While the US has its problems. They are a bit more reliable in that they wouldn't just take whatever land they see fit. Heck 'Balikatan' is basically the country strengthen it's defense due to the growing worry over there. Same goes with Japan, and other southeast asian countries. As for Taiwan, I think they have credible reasons to not trust the CCP nowadays. With a possible invasion looming over their heads and all that. Lastly we don't know what will happen if war break out. Ukraine showed that things that could go wrong, will go wrong. While underestimating China is a fool's way of thinking, trying to be friendly with them after numerous amount of geopolitical and dimplomatic issues is stupid at this point. Until they stop with their agressive wolf dimplomacy, neighboring countries will continue to look Westward.
The difference is the U.S. can crank out far more ships than Japan could during that era, whereas today China’s shipbuilding capacity is more than 10 times that of the U.S.
Simon you must get loads of money from RUclips , you deserve it cus you obviously work very hard and your very good at what you do, I'm surprised a major TV station hasn't snapped you up, RESPECT
Ruling the depths is the key. All surface ships are vulnerable to satellites and long range missiles same as WW2 Battleships did not stand a chance against air power.
China's nuclear weapons have not experienced wars either, and when they are launched into your country, you don't need to fight back, because he has no combat experience
Tonnage is a better criterion for evaluating naval strength. As of January 2024, the total tonnage of the Chinese Navy has reached 2.9 million tons. There is still a gap with the United States' 5.7 million tons, but it has gradually left aside the third player
He is right, my hometown is Taizhou, Jiangsu, which is the birthplace of the Chinese People's Navy, there is a naval park and a naval museum, and the current Chinese People's Navy has an 8,000-ton ship named after my hometown. Taizhou is a small city that is not very well-known in China. The current GDP level is about $93 billion.
@@dexlab7539 That's beside the point though. Sure the type 055s look like they're probably very good, probably pretty comparable to modern Burkes, Ticos, Sejong The Great etc. classes. Whether that's actually more capable or less isn't really answerable by anyone alive with how much about them is classified, but it's reasonable to rate them highly. Those 055s are still currently only 8 out of the ~500 commissioned ships in the PLAN right now. The rest of that count includes hundreds of corvettes, missile boats and auxiliaries. In tonnage and total weapons the PLAN is still only something like half the size of the USN, and even with the incredible rate of construction it'll be behind for years.
It's important to not take the Chinese navy too lightly, but at the same time, their demonstrated and intended capabilities still only really make them competitive within the South and East China Seas, where their ground based missiles can play a part, no matter what they claim about intending to have blue water capabilities. Turning down opportunities to practice long distance missions like missile defense from the Houthi's doesn't help them, nor their inexperience and underinvestment in critical but 'boring' skills like damage control and logistics, and they have virtually no allies that aren't easily flipped (Djibouti is NOT going to defend their base if a big conflict begins).
How do you know they don’t invest in damage control or logistics? Especially when they have the second largest at-sea replenishment fleet in the world.
I honestly wish I understood warfare. I'm not saying we should go back to lines of infantry volleying fire or using rifles as pikes or ships exchanging broadsides, but I admit that things were a lot easier to grasp at that point. Fighter jets are c&c platforms for overwatch. Ships are dangerously slow fortresses at sea. Subnarines are for launching rockets. Drones are flown from comfy chairs and blow everything up. The only thing that is the same is that a soldier in the field will either kill it, sdrew it, break it, or some combination of the three. How do we even judge the merits of a navy when the concept of naval superiority is so malleable at this point.
@@team3am149 China can't even blockade Taiwan literally right next door. How in the heck do you think it would do against the U.S. assets in the Pacific like Guam? With the full force of The Pacific Fleet? Don't lie. Lol
It seems to me China isn't very interested in having a global blue water navy. They're far more interested in maintaining regional supremacy and utilizing blue water navy to keep other superpowers out as opposed to preparing for any sort of aggressive expansion.
The VPN in China actually prevents you from looking at us. Instead of blocking Chinese people from understanding the world, we are all watching what you are saying, thinking, and preparing to do....... You know nothing about us. Unidirectional transparency.
I think they are asking for it. Bullied by Genghis Khan, then humilated by western power during the opium war, then conquered by the Japanese, even defeated by Vietnam. They have a long history of defeats.
For over 30 years, university graduate programs in the sciences have had huge numbers of Chinese students. I've only personally seen UNC, UW, MIT and UMASS in that time, but I'm pretty sure it was like that almost everywhere in the US. Not Chinese-American... just lots of Chinese students. So, due to those people maturing, and replacing the older scientists, as those retire... I think that's why we've been seeing more genuine innovation out of China each year, and that will continue. IOW, it's outdated to think of reverse engineering and espionage as the prime driver of military advancement for them, any more. Those skills are more for the consumer products category... especially for knock-offs. Obviously, their engineers will examine any captured western hi-tech. American engineers did the same with Soviet equipment. Everybody does that, whether they innovate or not... that's just curiosity and opportunism... which are 2 characteristics of innovators.
@@team3am149 yes, because they are not nuclear powered carriers. Non-nuclear powered aircraft carriers are basically like small fishing boats when compared to nuclear powered ones. Perhaps you should get an education before you comment lmfao
@@team3am149 someone did and the us navy pulled up next to China’s aircraft carrier group in the South China Sea. China’s Carrier group got violated and took it 😂😂😂
America discovered long ago that what you build must be maintained in quality and coordination of fighting strategies and tactics…and it costs a lot after the new toys arrive.
Only have half the tonnage of USA. China’s navy is composed of small fishing vessels and outdated war ships. They only have one functional aircraft carrier compared to 11 nuclear powered carriers for America. China is far from Goliath.
Only half the tonnage of the US is still miles ahead of anyone else. They have less outdated warships than the American navy, most of their ships are brand new. They have more shipbuilding capabilities than the rest of the world combined and outputs the equivalent of the entire French Navy every four years, including 3 aircraft carriers in the last 12 years. If China’s ten-thousand tonne destroyers are small fishing vessels, then what are the smaller American vessels? Typical ignorance, most Americans are far from adequately educated.
Tonnage matters less since the two powers have different strategic goals. USN tonnage is high because it is a blue water force designed to project power anywhere in the world. PLAN is a green water navy whose primary aim is to defend coastal waters. Any conflict between the two would be fought off of the coast of China, where the aircraft carrier discrepancy is at a minimal impact. This is assuming that US can knock out key steps in the kill chain for the PLARF's hypersonic missiles - otherwise the US may not be able to risk its aircraft carriers.
We have good bit of a lead on China, but they are closing that gap faster than we are increasing it. They will be the first country after the US to field more than 2 aircraft carriers, a impressive feat considering many countries don’t own one and those that do tend to only have one. China’s j20 is probably the best stealth fighter after the US’s F22 Raptor and the F35 lightning II. China has hypersonic missiles, a technology that we are actually behind on and we do not have. We also lack a means of protecting our ships from hypersonic missiles at the current time. If the US and china had a naval battle right now, we would definitely win, but the losses would be more severe than anything our navy has suffered since ww2.
Hypersonics we haven’t yet admitted to field, in line with our habit of actually waiting for it to be practically ready for production before publication. We just finished a successful test of an ARRW off of Guam, which hints at how confident we are at striking targets in the Western Pacific. And unlike Russia’s nuclear-based deterrence or China’s “carrier killer” concepts, American hypersonics when they do get deployed are meant to be fired off regularly.
Warographics: China is a paper tiger
Internet: No, China is a very powerful
Warographics: China is a goliath
Internet" No, China is very weak
135：paper tiger,
246: goliath
Let the confusion begin
Well you can't parade your expertise by simply agreeing!
Made in China, cheap and quickly produced crap. Their military will be the same.
China put sea water in their missiles. Nuff said
作爲一個中國人，我很高興看到多數的美國和西方讀者在這些留言裡展現的自信，我可以很肯定的告訴你們，中國軍方也非常樂見你們維持著這樣的思想。繼續保持，千萬別清醒！
他们确实都是迷一般的自信，keep going
I happened to be situated next door to a retired US admiral while holidaying at a resort in Mexico the winter before last and being a retired army man myself (from Canada), we had many interesting and lively chats about all manner of things including this topic... the Chinese vs the US navy.
He said that it is of the utmost importance to always keep a few facts in mind when talking about this comparison. While it is true that the US navy is still far more powerful, though yes, numerically smaller, than the Chinese navy, he said that the closer to its own coast that the Chinese navy is operating, the more lethal it becomes and the more vulnerable any opposing navy becomes due mostly to its shore based missile batteries.
And any significant and serious exchange of fire between the two is going to happen in exactly this spot. The Chinese know this, they've always known this, and it is that premise first and foremost, that they have designed their navy and naval strategy around.
As to other matters such as how smart and how bold are their admirals, how effective are their crews, their flyers, their tactics etc, he said that we simply don't know at this point. They could prove to be a complete farce, a world beater or anything in between but it would be a capital mistake of the highest order to underestimate them. Even total klutzes can do a hell of a lot of damage with that much gear.
I asked if the folks in the pentagon are taking them seriously and his response couldn't have been less ambiguous...... "You'd f*ckin' A better believe they are!!"
Its almost like that's exactly why we've focused so much on stealth aircraft that make even those massive shore based radar stations useless, and are entirely capable of flying in from out of range and dropping ordnance on radar, air defenses, and land to sea missiles. Or longer range missiles that are harder to detect, smart enough to fly around early warning and interception threats, then coordinate with each other on final approach to maximize kill probability. Meanwhile china is still stuck on "surely we can break the laws of physics to make a missile go faster than a top of the line computer can move a few electrons and calculate an intercept! What do you mean the faster something is the less maneuverable it is?"
Awww look at the two Chinese bots find each other. How cute.
@@amorphousavocet1210 All you need is quantity, you can intercept 1-10 missiles but if a 100 come at you at the same time....Its kinda like how the Israeli Iron dome failed.NEVER underestimate your enemy,especially when you never fought him.I am pretty sure the pentagon is taking the issue seriously.
@@amorphousavocet1210 Ha! Some random radar operator in Serbia back in the Kosovo war, figured out how to detect our stealth F117 with Soviet gear from the 60's... we didn't even know the plane existed until the Serbs shot one down with 60's era Soviet AA missiles. Guess who collected that downed stealth plane... Russia. Just because the US claims that our stealth is undetectable, doesn't make it true. Flying sorties, untouched over the middle east for 30 years means nothing... especially when you consider that the US still lost. China and Russia have most certainly figured out how to detect our stealth, why else would the US need to be constantly designing new stealth tech?
@@havocgr1976this ridiculous myth needs to die already. Neither Russia or China has the industry or expertise to make that many missiles. Even if they magically did they utterly lack the ability to actually target ships at sea, and US aircraft have enough range they are under no obligation to let them shoot back. It’s not underestimation, it’s demythologizing
On one hand, never underestimate your enemy.
On the other hand, your enemy:
Yeah, and it makes me angry so many people do underestimate China.
They have the population and resources. They have motivation and their government for all its woes can swivel faster than any Democracy.
Anyway we shall see soon won't we?
One thing China doesn't have is competent allies.
@@dianapennepacker6854...you do realize they're sitting on the verge of a massive unavoidable population collapse right? the long term consequence of the one child policy meeting their cultural bias for male children. Made worse by their current godawful conditions for citizens disinclining many to having children at all even if they're some of the few that could.
The fools keep making it worse too, statistical predictions have reached a 50% decline by 2100. Long before then most of their population will be elderly, past working age and needing financial support. Less than useless in any conflict, and liable to cause a financial or social collapse.
@@dianapennepacker6854chinas wealth and power is gilded. In 25 yrs they’re gonna have a population crisis because they’re more old people than any other age cohort, plus there’s 30 million + single men who will never have a wife because of the effects of the one child policy. In regards to morale or motivation, the Chinese people have been made, for the most part, willing slaves to the party and system. If anything china should focus on improving the quality of life & infrastructure for its people before the whole nation falls apart at the seams. China is a joke. it counts on people believing its strong when it’s rly a house of cards
@@dianapennepacker6854 Yet, but it is working on it, especially through its Belt and Road Initiative.
@gumpyoldbugger6944 no offense but I don't think that any of the countries targeted by the belt and road initiative can be considered "competent allies" atleast not in the militaristic sense.
On that quote about China, "No one knew precisely what prompted Napoleon to make this warning, but no one seemed to care, either."
Maybe it was something of a moment thingy...
That quote really triggered you lol 😂
Well yeah who cares about an ominous warning that doesn't apply to a time you'll be around to see?
"A meteor will strike Earth in 500 years."
Nobody will care in that moment. ✌
@@Phearsum See also the bible
@@Phearsum If the meteor was made in China nobody has to worry. 🤣
I have a strong feeling that in my little life time, some real shit gonna hit the fan.
No reason for it not to. Since WW2 has been the longest period of global peace EVER. Was never this peaceful at any other point in history. It's a matter of time - not if, but when.
oh yeah for sure, probably best to gain some new skills to defend yourself and what not, at the very least some survival skills
who the hell knows whats going to happen soon
It already is
War is (unfortunately) a part of human nature. War will exist as long as humans exist if you ask me.
Have you been checked out of Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Palestine? It’s already happening.
if China’s navy is Goliath then America’s navy is Godzilla
USA navy is weak because USA has to much enemies.
Thats a little bit of a stretch if you really consider the two stories. Godzilla couldnt be meaningfully harmed by a human of size from 6 to 9 feet, even a muscular behemoth of a man. China could reasonably harm the US navy. They wouldnt win----weve got vastly better planes and missiles and drones and torpedoes-- but they could def put up a fight. Thats what makes the entire of the conflict terrifying. At some point one side will be too far apparently losing and nukes will be authorized.
The strikethrough is a misrecognition of an emdash, ignore it. Two '-' make a strike through here i guess, instead of an emdash, whereas on all reasonably programmed chat/forum/comment spaces its two '~' to do strikethrough/crossout
The war in Ukraine taught us that modern day wars arenot about sheer power anymore. Russian Navy could not defend against tiny drones and tiny kamikaze boats and we laughed about it, but our navy would suffer the sane faith if we went at war. Modern day technology can't really defend against those. Its not about size anymore, hopefully the U.S military adapted to this new reality and does not rely only on powerful warships.
I mean i'm sure they adapted, if a dude like me is aware of it.
@@StayPrimal
Nah because we have functioning CIWS. You have to understand three things to make this comparison. One, the Russian Navy is almost entirely composed of soviet ships and with the loss of Ukrainian assistance they've lost most of their naval repair assets. Imagine that.
Two, the US has been watching the Ukrainian war. They saw it. They aren't blind to what it means.
Three... Who knows what corners the chinese cut? They have more "boats" technically but a third the tonnage, and doing it that fast has costs. Just ask the 1,000 or so schoolchildren who died in shittily, QUICKLY made schools in 2023 when an earthquake hit
Ah Napoleon- “To a Canon all men are equal”.
*cannon
@@shawnhoebeck7784 well that’s what happens when the it auto correct
“An army marches on its stomach.”
China had several times more men than any other country at the time he said that, so...
Canon too. lol
The thing is the Chinese navy is built only to be able to challenge the USN in the South China Sea. They simply do not have the capabilities to operate globally. The US would also never be going into a war alone with China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Taiwan, and Britain will be called in at the bare minimum. What allies does China have to call in? North Korea I guess?
Yes indeed. 😊
Truth
To be fair I don’t think they really have the desire to operate globally either. They project force around the world purely economically.
You forgot United States has India to block China's trade routes
Yes they were never built to operate far, even their airforce isnt built for that.I woudnt be so sure who would go along in a war with em though.And thats for a simple reason, WMDs.
One thing that I understood from watching video from Perun: China does not think it is equal to US in sea... but it plans to get there, and now they are in the middle of building that navy. China uses more money on buying new stuff, and they have more ship building capacity. However more they build, more they have to use money on maintanance, so that growth won't be infinate.
China also doesn't have to build a global navy like the US. They only need enough to dominate one region.0
Secondly you can build a million ships.
You can't just build a competent crew, with years of experience, or a history of naval traditions and understanding.
China was never a naval powerhouse. Truly they are like Spain in the 1500s. Their lack of knowledgeable leadership and training will show.
@@DEC3TheWokeProject You can copy the practices and training from your rivals. I think no one, including China itself is aware how good or bad its sailors will be in a real fight.
@@masaheimoi what's the time of "practicing and adopting foreign battle plans?"
Who's running the naval academy, who's orchestrating the training exercises, what real experience do these men have at sea, and with open water maneuvers.
You can read a manual but yet not understand how to build off the design.
Doctrines and ideology plays a huge role in these matters, and the Chinese approach is to force themselves into being a naval power without earning their stripes and taking their fair share of licks.
No nation is invincible, the US can tell you that, but the strategy of one's nation could be.
China will cripple itself investing so much into their navy, without needing to even go to war. China will fall to ruins due to its navy if it does go to war.
Not even that. Their steel quality is so bad their infrastructure is crumbling, never mind how crappy all the rest of it is. Lord concrete should not crumble in bare hands. There's already been multiple attempts to draw attention away from how much they're struggling to get enough decent steel to make a single knock off of one ancient outdated russian carrier.
The US's strength isn't in its hulls or weapons, but in the industry and technology and experience needed just to build and maintain all that shit. The only real competitors are in Europe and elsewhere in Asia. Russia and china have basically neutered themselves via kleptocracy, while everyone that matters has figured out its far more profitable to just not fight each other.
"Everybody pulls for David, nobody roots for Goliath."
-- Wilt Chamberlain
VIETNAM FIGHTING! OOO OOO OOO!
YOU ARE REMINDER TO THE CASUALTIES PLA SUFFERED. THANKS ANYWAY.😂❤@@sirgaz8699
..and China is this case is David
@@jmjones7897 Not really, Vietnam see both China and America as equal partners.
@@protato911 You are correct, particularly in light of the basic 4 no's policy.
The 2 nations have greatly improved relations in recent years, sincerely hope such efforts continue
Goliath is not invincible. Just asked David.
David was Jewish! There as foretold by the prophecy, the isrealis will be the one to defeat China
David died of old age
You're welcome
I bet you feel smart
The US is Goliath!
A Navy that gets significantly weaker the further it gets from its mainland
There is truth in this statement.
Like every navy.
@@team3am149 No, the US navy is as strong abroad as it is at home. Just ask the Japanese or any enemy of the British navy in the 18th and 19th century.
Any navy worth its salt is a threat no matter what part of the globe they are on
@@arwing20so you’re saying only one navy in the world is worth its salt
@@canine555 Well the 3 blue water navies are. USA, UK and France. Everyone else just doesn't have the capability to strike at all places on the ocean with their navies.
I wonder if you guys ever played Starcraft?You have a fleet of starship is not strong, strong is you have hundreds of shipyards.
As Ex Royal Aus Navy I agree. Having a fragile amount of targetable ports is a scary prospect for any nation with a war on it's doorstep even if they are the aggressors.
China have hundred of shipyard that can build gigantic ships. I bet they could be used for warship in war time. US shipyard is like an old man waiting to die
Spot on
As the Chinese are about to find out, building the Navy is the easy part; maintaining it is a whole different story. Wait till the maintenance and upkeep bills start to pile up.
chinese military cost about 1.6%GDP
just a friendly reminder, China is a Socialist country, most of their shipbuilding companies are state-own
“It takes 3 years to build a ship, 300 years to build a tradition”
@@doujinflip and who got 309 year of experience? Not USA lol
@@user-uy9zm8sf2y China's army and Navy is the laughing stock of the world , There Navy is full of untried and untested pampered mummy boys from China's failed 1 child policy who will Wet there pants at the first sign of conflict , there army is also full of fakes and copies of American tech , they would be Wiped out in any war with the West and They know it that's why they ain't gonna do SHIT !
Should do a video on Canada's fleet and how it changes between the different wars. Going from third largest to one of the smallest on the planet is quite a change.
A sad video. We've become such a short sighted and arrogant nation, squandering our wealth and overlooking all the things that make a country succeed.
What are you talking about? We have at least 2 dozen canoes in our fleet....and I'm pretty sure one of those Victoria class submarines we bought from the UK (after Pakistan rejected them) has finally been made watertight by now...or at least mostly watertight...as long as it stays on the surface.
I heared that Canada air force is particularly powerful... Is it right?
@@hosmerhomeboy maybe you all can stop hosting separatists from other countries and do something for the real Canadians
It is my understanding that the more correct way to judge a Navy is not by number of ships but by tonnage, which the USA has the lead by quite a large margin
That would be the correct measure for commercial Navy (shipping things around the globe) not the military..
@@djgeorgetsagkadopoulos that's literally how you judge ships in fighting navies, which is why things like The Washington Naval Treaty dealt with ships being certain tonnages, as well as how we classify a carrier from a super carrier being based on tonnage.
@@djgeorgetsagkadopoulos So all I have to do is take a million canoes and strap a gun to each one and suddenly I'd have the largest navy in the world? that makes no sense,
@@DarthTrazyn I didn't claim that, but then again if I built one single MASSIVE ship, the size of Japan, that displaces double than all the ships in the world combined, and I stick a dozen of canons on it, do I have the biggest navy in the world ?
After all, it's ONE ship :P
@@djgeorgetsagkadopoulos You're completely confusing biggest with best. Yes, China has the biggest Navy as they have several more ships than the USA, but the USA has the Best Navy, since it's more than twice the tonnage and three times the battle force missiles. Yes China has a bigger Navy, but the US has a better and more powerful Navy.
Which leads to your comparison question, yes, if you build one singular ship the size of Japan, which makes it literally unsinkable in any possible way, and it has exponentially more times the battle force missiles and tonnage than every Navy in history combined, then yes, you would have the strongest Navy on earth.
I liked the old background a looooooooot more if you read this. Been following your various channels for MANY years. I think the coordination between channels via light color a good thing. Keeps things feeling professional and “on brand”.
There are some mistakes in the title cards and images. I've caught these:
3:35 Typo in the ship class name, should be "Arethusa"
4:30 This is not the correct ship-it's a Taiwanese Frigate built in the 90s of the same name
16:54 Typo- should read "Mach 10"
I picture a "Mac 10 capable missile" as an SMG that absolutely rockets through the air faster than the bullets it shoots...
You've been using the word chuffed alot lately, I approve of this move.
7:40 the term is green water navy might be more appropriate or at least a hybrid green-brown navy because a brown navy pretty much means that it's restricted to a nation's river network.
An example would be the US in Vietnam when the larger craft would be stuck on the coasts
The biggest complaint out of the US military is that the air force can't mount the directed energy weapon on the AC-130j. Whereas it can be mounted on the new Ford class Supercarrier. A vehicle that not one other nation has. Nothing that even matches up to the old Nimitz class.
Peter Zeihan bouta be in the comments wildin' out
He’s busy snorting lines right now in Denver, he’ll freak out tomorrow
Peter Zeihan has been predicting the "Chinese collapse" for the last 20 years, I am pretty sure what he will say for the next 20 years.
Quantity.... can sometimes defeat quality. Never understimate an enemy... because if you do.... that is the #1 ingredient in the recipe of defeat.
China only talks big except where it counts.
@christophermarriott1681 how insightful. Unless you are the one at sea, on watch and providing the blanket of freedom.... enjoy the video games kid.
Don't fuck with the US Navy.
That is the paramount lesson in World Affairs since the dawn of the Age of Steam
When did USA underestimate their enemies? In fact USA always overestimate their enemies just look how Soviet propagandas of mig 25 lead to creation of the most deadliest jet fighter ever the F15.
Quantity is a mathematical fact while Quality is always debatable.
Quantity always mattered and always was above the so called "Quality".
Great video! Thanks for the presentation. However, I think your editorial team got bunch of the background pictures off. They are at 4:33 (Wuchang), 5:22 (Soviet attaché), 5:37 (Chengdu), 8:31 (“top of the line missile pod”, but actually an unguided rocket pod from a Mig-19), 10:46 (showing a Kiev class cruiser carrier, not Varyag). Finally at 12:52, you mentioned that 039 was the first PLAN conventional sub to use AIP propulsion. However, the 039A, not 039, was the first class to use AIP. Otherwise, it is all good!
It’s so inspiring, to see how far Johnny Sins has come.
Will be another beautiful video for sure
It isn't the plane or the ship..
it is all about the radar and missiles capabilities and yeah drones technology.
That Brussels Griffon beard is on point.
I am a Chinese and I see the comments made by native English speakers in the comments section, which seems to me very, very stupid and naive. Did someone say that when China was most powerful, the Tang Dynasty invaded Taiwan? Is this how your history is taught? Is this how Westerners study Asian history?
没必要较真，都被假新闻忽悠成脑瘫了。这些人从没想过一个世界工厂和拥有全球51%份额的造船工业转化为军工的战争潜力多么恐怖。就像二战前的美国，全力开动可以每天有上百万枚导弹走出生产线。他们甚至都不知道，俄乌战争的炮弹产量不足也跟制裁中国新疆棉（硝化棉原材料）有关。这些人把一个能在太空建立空间站的国家看得如此弱小，是如此的傲慢。
An important gauge for naval capability is “battle fleet tonnage” because sure you can have a plethora of boats but if those boats are glass cannons then there isn’t much room for error when it comes to strategy. I think the important part this video brought up was China’s willingness to manufacture which can be a problem for any military power to compete with IF not taken seriously. Still a fun watch though
Tonnage used to signify armors, which became irrelevant today. Even a drone can take out heavy cruiser nowadays pretty much negated the size advantage.
I find it funny that China first aircraft carrier feel like it’s at sea a whole lot longer than the Kuznetsov have ever been despite being launched later
The Chinese put in way more money and maintenance compared to Russia. The PLAN's biggest problem is that they are playing catch up, while Russia is speed running military decay
There’s a reason Ukraine (who owned the ex-Varyag which became the Liaoning) decided to sell the hulk to China for scrap.
Building a ship is one thing, but maintaining it is far more important. Even the US is having trouble keep up with maintenance these days as the American domestic ship building industry has withered away. China on the other hand, now builds over 50% of the world's ships by tonnage, so they have plenty of capacity and manpower to keep up with maintenance.
China's real naval problem is a lack of allies, they have some business partners, but if at war, they become very lonely.
China has to defend its coast as well as at least imports of food and fuel at times of war, and that would require an alliance of nations China doesn't have.
It is very confusing in a way with Chinese geopolitics that they have been highly antagonistic toward nations that have the ability to easily disrupt (if not close) water trade routes that are heavily relied on for said food inputs and energy.
True. While Russia, North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela are closely cooperating with the Chinese, going full in support during a war with Nato is less likely. Though I am more interested in their attempts to buy, charm and bully African countries and Pacific islander countries into possibly establish long term maritime bases to extend the Chinese naval reach
@@cynthiaherbst3909they falsely believe they are superior and can treat others negatively without consequences.
It's cute to watch. When they have a real crisis, they'll get nothing but laughs from us.
Instead, China is surrounded by enemies.
@@NoNeedNoGreedwithout going into detail China is basically in the German Empire position during the scramble for Africa pre WW1 or Japan before WW2 they need a strong navy to secure resources abroad and challenge their enemies supremacy over water trade routes. Without it they can be choke to submission and as such a war is inevitable.
Cuisers, Heavy Cruisers with SIGINT and a lot of VLTs. Heavy destroyers would be nice too.
The US Navy starts from a position of power due to size and quality of ships. The thing that sets us apart is the 3M program. Preventative maintenance and training keep us fresh and ready. Realistically, these standards vary vessel to vessel as to how well it's executed, but the baseline is higher than even our near peer adversaries.
China's 2.5 (or 3) carriers is actually a lot smaller than the US' 11 when you factor aircraft capacity of each ship... China has 1 supercarrier (as Simon pointed out, not yet commissioned) and 2 standard carriers. Whereas all 11 of the US carriers are Supercarriers. The two standard Chinese carriers can carry about 30 to 35 aircraft each, depending on composition.. it's super carrier can carry approximately 70. Each US carrier can carry 90 on average (though typically only carry 64 usually of various types, but they can carry more if / when needed, depending on aircraft types). A single US carrier has more aircraft generally than both of China's standard carriers combined. And even their new supercarrier is still smaller than a US supercarrier. The difference in scale / power is immense.
China's goal is to dominate in its own back yard. The US is not going to send all its assets to the SCS. With the support from its land based assets, it is though to say whether the US has a winning chance at all.
Carriers fight against missiles, not other carriers.
@@elmohead I wasn't comparing them for purposes of carrier vs carrier, I was comparing them in terms of actual power 1 carrier can exert in a theater of war. 1 US supercarrier has more firepower than 2 regular chinese carriers and even more than 1 chinese supercarrier. So when you hear "11 to 3 strength" .. it's more like 20 to 3 strength when you compare the amount (and type) of aircraft each nation can bring to bear at sea.
China is also going to maintain at least 1 super carrier construction going until 2040. They’ll soon catch up & they have no real interest in fighting anyone until then
On paper it looks like that but in reality...
You cannot defeat a shark in ocean and a shark cannot defeat you on land.
The place of battlefield and geography plays the most important role in outcomes of a battle.
US navy cannot win against China in it's own backyard that is South China Sea.
Those tiny ass so called allies of USA will be toast against full military might of China.
And the same for the Chinese navy. The farther it is away from the mainland, the weaker it gets in support and firepower.
Always great content from warographics. Concise and digestible but is well researched and doesn’t overreach. Brilliant presenting too.
We Chinese often say that the Chinese do not fight the Chinese, but the Taiwanese say that they are no longer Chinese and are humiliating us on our land and saying that we are despicable. It is enough for our Navy to hold back the United States and its allies until Taiwan is recovered, and we have never thought of challenging or attacking other countries to occupy.
Was a good video.
The type 001 and 002 are both Soviet era frames purchased from Russia, they didn’t design shit.
You can’t even Google basic information 😂
第一，这是从乌克兰买的😅
第二，这是中国第一艘航母，继承于苏联最强的巡洋航母😅
第三，002是居于001在中国建造的😅
第四，目前中国最强航母是003😅
My spies tell me that very few of their ships can venture more that 1 000 km from port. On the oceans, that ain't much.
indeed. they are a green water navy but trying hard to go blue. if they are unable to secure ports theyll never go blue...thats the real purpose of their BRI.
You might want to stop relying on imaginary spies then…
The Chinese Navy has maintained a constant presence in the Red Sea/gulf of Aden since 2008 with their Naval Escort Task Force (NETF) even with (at times) their older and crappier ships like the Luda class destroyers and Jiangwei II frigates (both of which are niw mostly decommissioned. When you include exercises and the ships doing their world tour after NETF, only the US and British maintain more ships on mission far from their coast. Additionally, China is one of only 3 countries operating cruisers ( by US NAVY and ONI classifications) and the only country building new cruisers. They don't HAVE to operate far from their coast, but they are perfectly capable of doing so at a small to moderate level
China is not planning to invade some oil-rich nations far away like iraq, so I guess the trigger happy US navy doesn't need to worry much.
Smaller navies here in Europe can do that. They are all patrol boats and amphibical craft and missile boats with little aspiration abroad but decent at detering others.
The question is how viable do it how many shortcuts did the builders take is it truly up to par is the quality there or did they cut corners and the shops are less functional than they appear like most things in chija
The Type 55 destroyer/cruiser is the scariest platform but didnt get a mention, on par with a Ticonderoga cruiser.
请不要用600公里作战半径的巡洋舰 和 攻击范围1500公里的驱逐舰比较！可以遛鸟打击1200公里作战半径的航母群！
I swear that the person who adds the pictures is trolling us.
You should do a companion piece to this focusing on china's maritime militia. You could also throw in their coast guard. I think that would help give a more complete view of china's disposition.
The Chinese coast guard probably has the largest and most modern fleet in the entire world. Their navy is building so many ships so quickly that just between 2013 and 2021, they build SEVENTY FIVE 1,500 ton corvettes for the navy, quickly realized that's way too many, and transferred over 20 to the coast guard before they even turned 10 years old.
As the old saying goes: overconfidence is an insidious killer.
How many channels does Simon have?
Leaving aside the fact that 80% of it's navy's boats are significantly smaller than anything fielded by the US or Japan and can be destroyed by a single missile (launched from a sub or aircraft 300 miles away) I'm not slightly worried about China's "Navy". Maintaining a global Navy is very expensive and China's economy is in recession and headed for an economy ending depression. There are plenty to worry about before I worry about China as a global naval power.
You haven’t even look this up have you? Most of the US ships are Cold War era glass cannons.
@@OCS-vr7my How ya doing Vlad? Yeah, all 10 Nimitz class aircraft carriers are from the cold war, of course they are carrying 70 generation 5 stealth aircraft and their escorts include nuclear attack submarines. Russia has no air craft carriers and China has former USSR (cold war) carriers. lad, please continue this conversation so I can hand off your information to the Russian Bot killer Ryan McBeth
@@OCS-vr7my lol. Glass cannons why doesn't China show us by firing on one of them then? Oh I know why... because they know better.
@@mrmitchell11 go look it up?
Leaving aside the fact that 100% of your comment was complete made-up bullshit, I wouldn’t, nor anyone else, take your opinions and worries seriously.
Number of VLS and radars are probably a good rule of thumb for Naval comparisons
In which case the fact that the PLAN commissioned 8 Type 055 Destroyers in a span of just 3 years (2020-2022), each packing some of the most advanced radars on the planet plus 112 VLS cells shows they mean business. Also in that 3 year span, they also commissioned 12 Type 52D guided missile destroyers, each packing 64 VLS cells. That's not even counting the dozens of Type 054 Frigates they built/are still building with 32 VLS each. That's a lot of VLS launch capability in a very short period of time.
Might want to do a little more research on this one
In the past 200 years, China has been rapidly recovering from weakness. Even 200 years ago, China was still a powerful empire. In ancient history, the West had never conquered this Eastern empire. The biggest threat to ancient China was the nomadic tribes in the north. In modern times, most of the nomadic tribes in the north have been driven away, and almost all of them have been assimilated. Once, the Han Empire drove away the Xiongnu people, and the Xiongnu people caused serious trauma to the Roman Empire! Only the Mongols ruled China for less than 100 years and were soon overthrown by the Ming Empire! The formation of China's territory today has also been obtained through countless wars! There is a reason why China can exist for 4000 years! No one should underestimate China!
In the words of Sun Tsu: "don't risk dwelling into aircraft carriers before mastering the technology of a reliable cellphone charger."
Word up.
"Leviathan" might have been more apt than "Goliath".
Even better: Kraken
Ah but the Leviathan is destroyed. @@coconutsmarties
Ah but the Leviathan is destroyed. @@coconutsmarties
China is still a very long way from becoming a world class blue water navy but given that they project themselves at that status until 2040s-2050s, they understand this as well which is an important thing to note. The thing that separates China from our other adversaries like Russia for instance is that China can learn & they can adjust when necessary. Their rise to power over the last 40 years is a testament to that. China's biggest issues do not primarily lie in technology but rather institutionally. Currently, the PLAN has little to no actual naval combat experience which they will need to build from the ground up & that is already a process that itself can take decades to firmly establish. Also, the PLAN is unsurprisingly having recruitment issues as well which will need to be resolved as well. There are papers from a few years back analyzing the progress the PLAN have made in this regard & there are signs indicating that they are indeed trying to mirror themselves ever more so upon the most eminent naval force on the planet both institutionally & doctrinally i.e the USN which should not be surprising to anyone. How far this will progress is anyone's guess however but until China can sort these issues out, despite the technological development, lack of manpower & experienced personnel will significantly detriment their operational capability.
With that said, mission parameters need to be taken into account here which is something most people always look over when discussing this topic. While it is true that the USN maintains a significantly larger force, it cannot be anywhere on the planet at once & you will always have a handful of carriers undergoing maintenance in a shipyard somewhere. Unlike the USN which needs to maintain a presence across the globe, China just need to focus everything into one front that being the first island chain. We know that the PLAN also works in operating under their coastal umbrella which would serve as a massive force multiplier in a hypothetical confrontation with the rest of the Asia-Pacific forces.
China has about 125,000,000 more Missiles than US and it's Allies combined.
If China chooses to go to war they have enough missiles to overload any Defense system that is protecting their sovereignty.
This is why Japan, Taiwan, and Philippines should rather work economically with China and prosper instead of choosing the US / Proxy path.
Island Nations are in no place to fight in a 21st Century war.
I had the opportunity to deploy to "Balikatan Philippines" in 2011 when I was in US Army SOF. Amazing culture. So amazing I married a beautiful Filipino.
Sure, however, China's shenanigans in the 'West Philippine sea' have made negotiations with Xi difficult. While the US has its problems. They are a bit more reliable in that they wouldn't just take whatever land they see fit. Heck 'Balikatan' is basically the country strengthen it's defense due to the growing worry over there. Same goes with Japan, and other southeast asian countries. As for Taiwan, I think they have credible reasons to not trust the CCP nowadays. With a possible invasion looming over their heads and all that.
Lastly we don't know what will happen if war break out. Ukraine showed that things that could go wrong, will go wrong. While underestimating China is a fool's way of thinking, trying to be friendly with them after numerous amount of geopolitical and dimplomatic issues is stupid at this point. Until they stop with their agressive wolf dimplomacy, neighboring countries will continue to look Westward.
The Japanese had a larger Navy at Midway also .
The difference is the U.S. can crank out far more ships than Japan could during that era, whereas today China’s shipbuilding capacity is more than 10 times that of the U.S.
但中国人不是日本人😂
@@shixunliu1457That provided nothing substantial to the discussion.
Everyone has nuclear weapons now.
@@TubbyBubbleLove42 Japan is a kid compared to china.
Simon you must get loads of money from RUclips , you deserve it cus you obviously work very hard and your very good at what you do, I'm surprised a major TV station hasn't snapped you up, RESPECT
He's a secret multi-millionare. Alas none of millions will bring him what he wants the most, his hair.
@@joeclaridy LMFAO
Jesus fook where was your pop filter for this one mate?! Love you still Brain Boy.
Ruling the depths is the key. All surface ships are vulnerable to satellites and long range missiles same as WW2 Battleships did not stand a chance against air power.
China has ships, but no experience actually using them in combat.
Who does have experience using warships in combat vs a peer threat
@@brooklyn560 Anything resembling that .... British in the 80s?
China's nuclear weapons have not experienced wars either, and when they are launched into your country, you don't need to fight back, because he has no combat experience
@@brooklyn560 US, France, UK maybe not even France
China navy experiences are harassing south east asians small fishing boats.
The Tofu Dreg Navy. I’m quaking in my boots.
im wondering about that ,,,
Could u imagine being asked to go down in a Chinese sub? Lol
Your chinese boots
@@chaosinsurgency4197 lol. Mine were made in England, thank you. Solovair. I avoid Chinese crap. Except the food. The food is awesome.
For that tofu dreg navy america is gathering almost all the countries around it
Tonnage is a better criterion for evaluating naval strength. As of January 2024, the total tonnage of the Chinese Navy has reached 2.9 million tons. There is still a gap with the United States' 5.7 million tons, but it has gradually left aside the third player
He is right, my hometown is Taizhou, Jiangsu, which is the birthplace of the Chinese People's Navy, there is a naval park and a naval museum, and the current Chinese People's Navy has an 8,000-ton ship named after my hometown. Taizhou is a small city that is not very well-known in China. The current GDP level is about $93 billion.
14:33 our boy so bored with the endless script of “made in china” he made up a word to keep everyone entertained.
Okay, so I know I wasn't tripping 🤣
What, "Mine Countermeasure Vessels"?
If I put a gun in a kayak, China would count that as part of there Navy, in the US it called a “boating accident”
Florida Man's navy, assuming the kayak also has a rod-mount and beer can holder
I'd agree with you if it was 20 years ago.
You clearly don’t understand the Type 55 Destroyer - Best in the world by far and the US knows it
Does it involve a bridge as well?
@@dexlab7539 That's beside the point though. Sure the type 055s look like they're probably very good, probably pretty comparable to modern Burkes, Ticos, Sejong The Great etc. classes. Whether that's actually more capable or less isn't really answerable by anyone alive with how much about them is classified, but it's reasonable to rate them highly.
Those 055s are still currently only 8 out of the ~500 commissioned ships in the PLAN right now. The rest of that count includes hundreds of corvettes, missile boats and auxiliaries. In tonnage and total weapons the PLAN is still only something like half the size of the USN, and even with the incredible rate of construction it'll be behind for years.
What is with the type zero everything?
14:36 Was it Romulus or Remus that shouted shut up Dad? 😝
It's important to not take the Chinese navy too lightly, but at the same time, their demonstrated and intended capabilities still only really make them competitive within the South and East China Seas, where their ground based missiles can play a part, no matter what they claim about intending to have blue water capabilities. Turning down opportunities to practice long distance missions like missile defense from the Houthi's doesn't help them, nor their inexperience and underinvestment in critical but 'boring' skills like damage control and logistics, and they have virtually no allies that aren't easily flipped (Djibouti is NOT going to defend their base if a big conflict begins).
How do you know they don’t invest in damage control or logistics? Especially when they have the second largest at-sea replenishment fleet in the world.
中国海军是你的敌人？还是中国是你的敌人？需要防范？还是你们打算在东海和南海对中国发起侵略，因此需要防范中国的反抗？😂
Never underestimate your rivals, even friendenemies
The word is frenemies*
Yes😂
But don't underestimate looks weak military
I honestly wish I understood warfare.
I'm not saying we should go back to lines of infantry volleying fire or using rifles as pikes or ships exchanging broadsides, but I admit that things were a lot easier to grasp at that point.
Fighter jets are c&c platforms for overwatch. Ships are dangerously slow fortresses at sea. Subnarines are for launching rockets. Drones are flown from comfy chairs and blow everything up.
The only thing that is the same is that a soldier in the field will either kill it, sdrew it, break it, or some combination of the three.
How do we even judge the merits of a navy when the concept of naval superiority is so malleable at this point.
the type zero 71 is a cool looking ship
Also America has a blue water navy, China has a green water navy
Yeah, maybe in the 80’s.
@@team3am149 China has yet to demonstrate capability to force project beyond their own local areas.
@@team3am149 China can't even blockade Taiwan literally right next door. How in the heck do you think it would do against the U.S. assets in the Pacific like Guam? With the full force of The Pacific Fleet? Don't lie. Lol
@@thecoon3193 China has yet to demonstrate anything lol.
@@team3am149 someone doesnt know about tofu dregg construction
I’ve experienced Chinese workmanship.
in Baltimore we just had an example of murican one
@@piotrswat169 you would be right, if it didn't just get nailed by a ship
@@piotrswat169and in China y’all’s electric cars can’t stop catching fire !
You wouldn’t survive experiencing American workmanship, like what comes out of Boeing’s factories.
@@Hackattack7 building in Miami collapsed on its own.
It seems to me China isn't very interested in having a global blue water navy. They're far more interested in maintaining regional supremacy and utilizing blue water navy to keep other superpowers out as opposed to preparing for any sort of aggressive expansion.
I'm glad my Amazon addiction is getting put to good use😂
0:09 Just so you know that’s not a photo of Napoleon; that was his step-son Prince Eugene, Viceroy of Italy.
Nope... that's surely Napoleon
Paper tiger
A paper Panda would come closer to the mark.
I'm thinking of a different bear.@@HarryWHill-GA
wish everyone thinks in your way
"The running paper tiger chases its own tail" - GWAR
@@johnwethekylow
Honey?
It will be interesting to see how china will utilize its hypersonic missiles in combination with its type 55 destroyer.
The fact that this probably can’t be viewed in China seems like it might hurt viewership.
It's meant to scare the western audience. 🤣
The VPN in China actually prevents you from looking at us. Instead of blocking Chinese people from understanding the world, we are all watching what you are saying, thinking, and preparing to do....... You know nothing about us. Unidirectional transparency.
😂真有趣
@@user-zb1eb5nw2t Taiwan is REAL CHINA.
Can't wait to see Goliath be defeated by the much smaller David when the time comes!
Why don't u try if u can???
@@user-mx9fo8wv1w wooosh
@@user-mx9fo8wv1w Vietnam 😊
@@user-mx9fo8wv1w I'm not david, weirdo
I think they are asking for it.
Bullied by Genghis Khan, then humilated by western power during the opium war, then conquered by the Japanese, even defeated by Vietnam. They have a long history of defeats.
Interesting that tonnage wasn't mentioned in reference to Navy size comparison...
Because it doesn't matter in the age of missiles and satellites.
carriers, planes, ships aren’t key factors anymore. It’s the missiles.
And China has plenty of everything! Missiles, drones (literally millions of drones) etc. Drone warfare is the future.
One lesson learned. China never shied away from learning from other civilisation.
Too bad they learned from outdated civilizations.
@@christophermarriott1681 that is exactly where the lesson is. They are becoming great with outdated technology.
For over 30 years, university graduate programs in the sciences have had huge numbers of Chinese students. I've only personally seen UNC, UW, MIT and UMASS in that time, but I'm pretty sure it was like that almost everywhere in the US. Not Chinese-American... just lots of Chinese students.
So, due to those people maturing, and replacing the older scientists, as those retire... I think that's why we've been seeing more genuine innovation out of China each year, and that will continue. IOW, it's outdated to think of reverse engineering and espionage as the prime driver of military advancement for them, any more. Those skills are more for the consumer products category... especially for knock-offs. Obviously, their engineers will examine any captured western hi-tech. American engineers did the same with Soviet equipment. Everybody does that, whether they innovate or not... that's just curiosity and opportunism... which are 2 characteristics of innovators.
@@GizzyDillespee that's complete bullshit 😂
@@GizzyDillespee notwithstanding, China and Russia are making the world multipolar and safer.
New studio Simon?
Seems so
@@Saturn_2138
Yes, agreed
he is a voice actor, he doest write any scripts just read them.
Yes, Goliath and the one aiming for him is David, you know, David is slowly inching towards him.
The images are sometimes way off for the ships
Ex: 5:37 that ship is at least 30 years newer and used wrong multiple times.
If we're counting fishing ships, then yes, China has the biggest navy in the world.
Ten-thousand tonne destroyers are now fishing ships according to this knowledgeable armchair expert 👏
They are compared to the 100k tonne super carriers of the US.
@@kyodairiker I guess China’s 80K tonne carriers are also fishing boats by your standards then.
@@team3am149
Weak effort at whataboutism.
@@team3am149 yes, because they are not nuclear powered carriers. Non-nuclear powered aircraft carriers are basically like small fishing boats when compared to nuclear powered ones. Perhaps you should get an education before you comment lmfao
Just because you put a gun on a fishing boat, doesn’t make it a war ship.
Incorrect
😂😂
Tell that to the American navy.
@@team3am149 What about it? We've got 4x their tonnage with fewer ships. Aint no fishing boats in our fleets.
@@team3am149 someone did and the us navy pulled up next to China’s aircraft carrier group in the South China Sea. China’s Carrier group got violated and took it 😂😂😂
It is all about one’s industrial prowess in high tech manufacturing. It would appear that torch has been passed
5:38 you’re telling me in 1960 Chinese made a missile destroyer with 300 vertical launches? That’s ridiculous
Gotta be the earliest I’ve caught a video from you
thought the same thing haha maybe hes late o.O
It is like Goliath in one way, a pebble could kill it. Tofo-dreg is numba 1!!
Question what about the Indian and Russian navy plans?
America discovered long ago that what you build must be maintained in quality and coordination of fighting strategies and tactics…and it costs a lot after the new toys arrive.
Only have half the tonnage of USA. China’s navy is composed of small fishing vessels and outdated war ships. They only have one functional aircraft carrier compared to 11 nuclear powered carriers for America. China is far from Goliath.
Only half the tonnage of the US is still miles ahead of anyone else. They have less outdated warships than the American navy, most of their ships are brand new. They have more shipbuilding capabilities than the rest of the world combined and outputs the equivalent of the entire French Navy every four years, including 3 aircraft carriers in the last 12 years. If China’s ten-thousand tonne destroyers are small fishing vessels, then what are the smaller American vessels? Typical ignorance, most Americans are far from adequately educated.
Tonnage matters less since the two powers have different strategic goals. USN tonnage is high because it is a blue water force designed to project power anywhere in the world.
PLAN is a green water navy whose primary aim is to defend coastal waters. Any conflict between the two would be fought off of the coast of China, where the aircraft carrier discrepancy is at a minimal impact.
This is assuming that US can knock out key steps in the kill chain for the PLARF's hypersonic missiles - otherwise the US may not be able to risk its aircraft carriers.
@@user-ip8pi8ve5w If the PLAN isn’t a blue-water navy, then no navy asides from the American one is.
@@user-ip8pi8ve5w Stop regurgitating the outdated 90’s green-water navy crap, the PLAN has more blue-water capability than anyone asides from the US.
@@user-ip8pi8ve5w China has a full-fledged blue-water navy.
If China's navy is Goliath, then America's navy is god.
We have good bit of a lead on China, but they are closing that gap faster than we are increasing it.
They will be the first country after the US to field more than 2 aircraft carriers, a impressive feat considering many countries don’t own one and those that do tend to only have one.
China’s j20 is probably the best stealth fighter after the US’s F22 Raptor and the F35 lightning II.
China has hypersonic missiles, a technology that we are actually behind on and we do not have. We also lack a means of protecting our ships from hypersonic missiles at the current time.
If the US and china had a naval battle right now, we would definitely win, but the losses would be more severe than anything our navy has suffered since ww2.
Hypersonics we haven’t yet admitted to field, in line with our habit of actually waiting for it to be practically ready for production before publication.
We just finished a successful test of an ARRW off of Guam, which hints at how confident we are at striking targets in the Western Pacific. And unlike Russia’s nuclear-based deterrence or China’s “carrier killer” concepts, American hypersonics when they do get deployed are meant to be fired off regularly.
China now has 200 times the shipbuilding capacity of US. In a normal year，China just bulid a whole British navy.
In what terms? Paper number is like DPS on paper, sounds great till the actual fight starts.
Simon are you doing home office? :D
It's a green water navy. Unable to project any strength more than 1000 miles from their own shoreline.
They have a greater projection capability than any navy outside of the US.
they don't need.
That's kinda the point of building the 003?
I think you missed Great White Fleet 2.0 - Chinese Squadron Touring EU, including Baltic.
What are they doing in the Red Sea then?
Also, I don't think your opinion overrides what the US Naval Institute says.