The Book of Mormon and DNA Studies
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- “The Book of Mormon and DNA Studies” [DNA e studi sul Libro di Mormon] by Ugo Perego, given at "FAIR Ritorna a Roma," part of the 2024 Europe FAIR Conference series.
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Why not refute the claims made at 42:00 is not hard to do.
For one thing, Adam and Eve were 6000 years ago - that means there are dating problems with kennewick man and lineage data that are supposedly 8000 and 14000 years ago.
I've also seen refutations of the supposed absence of X2a from the Middle East.
You did not mention at all DNA studies of the mitrocondia DNA from the bones of the hopewell people. Why?
At the end of his presentation he explains why haplotype X is not the evidence the Heartlanders claim it is.
@@ccardall Its haplogroup X2.
@@ccardallplease see my note about the Kennewick Man in the main comments.. it will simply just take science to catch up with the truth...
Dr. Ugo Perego is a consummate scientist, and I'm grateful to have him. I hope the book coming will also address some of the newer concerns launched by disaffected scientists like Dr. Southerton. I realize Dr. Southerton is not a specialist in the same way Dr. Perego is on the subject of Native American population genetics, but it would be good if such professional differences were addressed somewhat. Having myself worked in both human-based and plant-based systems (the realms of Dr. Southerton and Dr. Perego respectively) there are substantial differences between the genetics and inheritance patterns of both, so I'm dubious about how much of the expertise transfers. The data, or rather lack-of-data that Dr. Perego highlights I think does a great job of explaining what we can and cannot expect from genetic research.
More provocatively, during the question period, is the notion that perhaps there should be an effort to actively test this hypothesis regarding the Book of Mormon. We do have a little bit of data from the book that might be helpful. We have a linguistically (according to Jerry Grover) Sumerian people which were those we call the Jaredites, a Menassahite lineage from 600 BC, an Ephraimite lineage from 600 BC (presumed) and a Judahite lineage ~580 BC. Since the bulk of the northern Ephraimite and Menasshite lineages were assimilated into the Assyrian Empire around 700 BC, it might be better to compare genetic markers between people from the Balkans, Eastern Europe and Turkey to that of Indigenous peoples. I think gene-copy number analysis rather than just haplotype analysis might be required for this type of work. Either way, very interesting, but a little disappointing that there has been almost nothing new to talk about since Ugo gave his first presentation on this subject.
Dr Southerton was the bishop of our ward when he left the church because of his dna controversary . It was so sad to see how his testimony changed nearly overnight .
@@marievanstraten735 I didn't know he was a Bishop at the time of his departure. That's very sad. I pray he'll come back and resolve the things he sees as irreconcilable. To be honest, and you'd know better than me, I didn't really think from the interviews I've seen with him, that his core concerns were the state of the genetic research, it seemed like something else was bothering him.
I'm grateful to Ugo and FAIR for providing well thought out information.
So NO DNA EVEDIDENCE in Meso America is a better than DNA evidence from a questionable dating if the Kennewick Man?
Basing your argument against Haplo Group X on the Kennewick Man is problematic. Carbon dating for KM range from 2100 years ago to 8400 years ago...literally all over the board. Referenced archeologists of course choose the earlier date to maintain their paradigm that KM was older than the modern Native Americans in an effort to not only maintain their narrative, but also control of the remains and discovery site.
However, said scientists lost that battle in the court of law where KM, now called the Ancient One, was deemed to be a Native American. His remains were taken from the scientific community and returned to the local tribe for reburial.
Should the earlier carbon datings be correct, he would have walked the North America about the time of Christ, which would not only challenge the ever waffling scientific community's paradigm, but also FAIR Mormon's.
Tapir anyone?
Hi Ugo. Nice to see you again!
Ray Conger
I can attest to the fact that DNA varies between siblings. And that DNA markers can quickly be diluted, or lost from a family line. My mother has done extensive geneology on her side, as well as her late husband's (my father's) side. Due to her research, but also due to first hand knowledge (she met and knew her parents, grandparents and great grandparents), she knew our family's lineage. She also met many from my Father's side, as well. She had French. English, and Hawaiian ancestry. In addition, my Father came from German and Irish ancestory. When my Mother, brother, sister and I had our DNA done (my Father had already passed away) we got some surprising results. The results for my Mother, sister, and I all showed that we had Pacific Islander (ie Hawaiian). My brother's did not. This ancestral line came through the maternal side.....Mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother. Perhaps my brother, receiving only one X chromosome from my Mother, did not inherit the marker for the Hawaiian side. My sister and I got a double dose of the Maternal Hawaiian side (two X chromosomes) and so it showed up on the DNA report. Another interesting thing is that only my brother's DNA showed Jewish ancestry. I believe it was carried through my Father's line through the Y chromosome, which my sister and I did not receive. So, the evidence of this lineage was "lost" to us. Another surprise was that all of us, my Mother, brother, sister and I showed a strong precentage of Scandinavian heritage. But we don't have anyone from Scandinavia in our family tree! The explanation that was given by the DNA report was that the Vikings had conquered a large portion of the lands that are now Europe. So if your ancestors came from Germany or England (as ours did), you will likely have some Viking (Scandinavian) DNA. With all the ancient migrations, we are probably more related than we think!
Or maybe he is not your biological brother, hard to believe there are no DNA markers in millions of Native Americans
Enjoyed watching this. It is interesting to see that you used the example of Thomas Jefferson because Fawn M. Brodie in her biography was an early adopter of the idea that Thomas Jefferson fathered children with his slaves. She also wrote one of the most complete historical records of Joseph Smith. Again, enjoyed this video!
I get that Fawn M Brodie was a bright human being. Even so, I think the data she used from one of her historical sources was not correctly weighed and graded for importance. Specifically the affidavits of the people local to Palmyra generated by one "Doctor" Phalistus Hurlbut, who was an absolute liar.
The error of not correctly weighing Hurlbut's bias was then further compounded and amplified by Dr Richard Bushman in his _Rough Stone_ .
It seems that human nature is always in full swing, that we seek the sensational and crave for talk about " _...some new thing..._ " (Acts 17: 12). It proves true the saying that " _Mr Lie travels half-way around the world before Mr Truth can get his shoes and socks on._ "
Fawn M Brodie was a gifted author but I believe her weighing of some of the historic data was incorrect. Specifically those affidavits relating to the Palmyra locals generated by "Doctor" Philastus Hurlbut who was a notorious liar and sexual predator.
So Kennewick Man is 8,000 years old. That's older than the garden of Eden in Jackson County Missouri and Adam and Eve. That's older than the flood and the tower of babel. And since the Book of Mormon mentions both the flood and the Tower of Babel, what does that say about the Book of Mormon? Kennewick man's descendants are Native Americans that still live in the Pacific Northwest according to DNA testing.
And it's nice to have Rod Meldrum put in his place by a real scientist.
The authors of the Book of Mormon apparently believed in the flood and the tower of Babel, but just because Mormon apparently knew of a heliocentric model for the Solar System doesn't mean we should expect him or his contemporaries - much less his predecessors - to have had a modern scientific worldview. It doesn't threaten my testimony if they accepted some legends and stories that our current understanding doesn't allow to take as fact. If God works with people according to their understanding, then God doesn't have to correct every little detail when revealing the more important truths.
However, I do sometimes wonder if, among the "unspeakable" things that the people at Bountiful were given to know, was included more factually accurate knowledge about the age of the earth and humanity.
Please see my note in the main comments on the actual carbon dating of the Kennewick Man which has long been disputed and continually nudged forward...😊
@@davidwelker6499 so what about the DNA evidence of Kennewick man that puts him at 9000 years old? The actual carbon dating of the bone put him at the 8000 to 9000 years also. In the mouth of two witnesses. Rod Meldrum and his followers are nothing but pseudoscience.
@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fpwhat does it matter if “BoM people” believed in the Tower of Babel? Jaredites are supposed to have come from there in barges, if the Tower of Babel is not a real event why would we believe Jaredites existed or the BoM is a historical record?
@@davidwelker6499
I saw your writing about Kennewick man and appreciated it.
But _tapir_ ?
That was brutal!