Bad Vegan and Bad Scams - SimplyPodLogical #99
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- On this episode of SimplyPodLogical, Ben and Cristine talk about the new Netflix documentary 'Bad Vegan' and the trend of documentaries about women being defrauded by loser men.
0:00 - Hey what’s up holo everyone
0:42 - Cristine and Ben summarize Bad Vegan
10:12 - What is raw vegan food like?
11:21 - How does someone fall for a scam like this?
20:21 - Is Sarma a victim or a perpetrator?
31:30 - What happened to the money?
33:57 - Thor and Loki
35:57 - Do you know anyone that would lend you $60,000?
42:54 - Did Netflix pay Sarma to participate in the documentary?
45:24 - Felons and reality television
49:05 - Is the next wave of documentaries about scams going to be about crypto?
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no one ever thinks “gee id love to be the victim of abuse” it’s never a choice or a sudden thing, it happens overtime and it could happen to anyone no matter their intelligence
And often in getting out of the abuse there's a physiological and psychological reaction which causes the victim to miss the abuser, the abuse, and the relationship. Unfortunately leaving isn't just a matter of rationality, it's going away from the "high highs" which is very hard to do when it's been randomly dosed. Literally how researchers increase craving in rats. It takes a lot to stay away for fear of safety and emotionally disconnecting from the abuse cycles.
I literally studied abuse in school (psychology) and dated someone who emotionally abused me for nearly a decade. It’s insulting when people question the intelligence of victims.
@@kaylajaned6764There's a difference between intelligent and educated. Intelligence is the application of what is learned. Some people are very well-educated, but not intelligent. That being said, intelligent people can fall for scams because we're all human and want to believe that unbelievable pitch. Especially if there is money or a loved one at stake.
You would be so surprised how easily any of us could be convinced of things when we're not on constant lookout, or on a bad day. It's easy to judge from the outside. I was almost scammed by an email scammer at a vulnerable time, and I got myself a big slice of humble pie when I learned from it.
Exactly, I thought I was unscammable until recently and it's hard to admit it but yes I was dumb in that moment. Luckily I had used PayPal, and they tend to be in favor of the customer. Most scammers don't dare to use PayPal because of this. Nobody is unscammable because the internet makes it easy for us to give information and money even when we're not thinking.
I thought I was unscammable, but then I had a really bad week. My dad was abusing my mom, I was angry at him, my fiance wouldn't text me for 2 weeks (he had covid and he usually forgets to text back). Got scammed by someone trying to befriend me through a social platform, I have no friends lol. Only lost 20 dollars. Thanks PayPal. :>
Except this wasn't a sob story, this wasn't a case of falling a friend with a need or anything, he literally told her he was wearing a fat suit and could make her and her dog immortal, like, first off you could tell because they were very close if not intimate and the other is literally impossible
@@emilymulcahy he never said he was wearing a fat suit. He told her he was gaining weight on purpose
@@emilymulcahy The progression of the madness was slow, that is the key.
When she first started dating him he was just a nice guy with a weird job. The manipulation for money ("if you loved me you would do ____", "you must not actually want to be happy together because you won't give me ____") came later and in smaller amounts. Then the quasi-religious aspect crept in at a turtles pace making his strange claims easier to swallow to someone who really cared about him and had been groomed not to question him.
The documentary plays audio clips from their phone calls where he literally screams and shouts at her for even attempting to question or doubt his word. He made himself her ultimate authority and she was in way to deep by the time she realized it was all a mistake
I've heard a lot of commentary asking how a smart woman can get herself in to this situation. I was in an emotionally and financially abusive relationship for years and I completely understand. I probably lost $30,000 over 2 years, which was a lot for me. They're really difficult to get out of.
I watched this over the weekend and my internal dialog was triggered. I was like "Don't do it, girl!"
I'm really sorry this happened to you, hope you're doing well :)
@@Crane_feather it took several years to recover, but much better now. Towards the end I started challenging all the money he "needed" and he became physical. I pressed charges and he went to prison for felony assault. But nothing ever happened with the money. I never got it back.
@@skuddleduck god, I can't even imagine. You're a brave person for standing up to him, I wish you all the best in moving forward!
I’m surprised at the content of the doc / the story given the title. The title is really misleading. I haven’t seen the show but from what’s presented here / in the media, it’s a story of abuse and manipulation. The title makes her out to be the “bad guy” but she’s certainly the victim in many ways here? Makes me sad about how we portray women in the media who have been abused :(
I’m about to graduate college and it’s stressful switching up everything for a professional career. Would you and Ben make an episode about your journey transitioning from college life to professional life!! I would love to see how y’all navigated all of the changes
You're going to be fine.
Literally same!!! I think that podcast would be helpful!!
This is such a good recommendation!!!
Adding onto this, I would also like interview/resume tips/how to negotiate pay/etc.
i actually don't think their experience would be /that/ helpful just because some time has passed although I'd still like to listen to them talk about this. i think someone who graduated more recently would give better advice tho
As someone who is very anti-scam and tries to educate everyone in my life about not getting scammed. It's a matter of vulnerability, even the smartest people have moments of vulnerability and that's when scammers get you. My advice for not getting scammed is never do anything important or even insignificant online when you are tired or distracted. Have other people around you who will question your decisions and look out for you if you feel you are more vulnerable in general. Everyone thinks they are unscammable until suddenly they get scammed.
agree, the lesson to take away we discuss at the end!! - Cristine
Yes, exactly this. My aunt fell for one of the online dating scams. All it takes is vulnerability and hope, and often these folks will spend months building trust before asking for money :/
@@simplypodlogical ahh, hi Cristine, thanks for responding to my comment! I wrote this before I got through the whole video. I think if you look at the situation through just the summary then it doesn't make sense, and it can make anyone feel like "I'd never fall for that, I'm too smart!". Thanks for always keeping the pod informative and entertaining when needed. :)
@@thenopedetective Absolutely, I hope your aunt is doing well. I think that loneliness makes it super easy to fall for dating schemes. Worst part is that many scammers network nowadays and will sell/give your information to other scammers especially if they were successful. Obviously this makes it easy for victims to be targeted again and again. So I hope your aunt has changed her number and stuff! My uncle was old-school lottery scammed about 5 years ago, and before he changed his number they were trying to get him again.
Pro-scam 💪
I actually know a couple where the male has been abusive their entire relationship, under the excuse of the female being “crazy”. His family lives with them and no one steps in because “it’s not their business,” “she should leave if it’s that bad,” “she shouldn’t have done what she did,” etc.
It’s hard for any abuse victim to find support without being questioned or judged.
I was in an emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship a few years ago and I can't stress enough how badly you want them to be the person they showed you in the beginning. I believed some relatively outlandish things and gave him money when he asked. And I still believe I am an intelligent person. I do not believe this woman is fully innocent, she did hurt people herself but I understand how she got into the position she was.
"Instead of didn't you see all the red flags? How about, I see how hard you were trying to be loved."
I sympathize with you. I also believed things that another person might not. Until that point I had no reason not to, and when the rug was pulled out I fell hard. I have a graduate level education. I know that I'm smart. He just wriggled his way into a part of me that wasn't as safe. He knew what he was doing.
@@skuddleduck sending love to you 💕 I hope you have found ways to heal. You did not deserve what he did.
Great point.
well put and agree. I'm sorry this happened to you, glad to hear you are out of it.
@@simplypodlogical thank you 💜 and I appreciate you and Ben talking about hard topics and always trying to be as understanding as possible, it means a lot 🙂
Re: the "meat suit". It's an allegory for his weight gain, not a literal costume. It wasn't that Anthony made Sarma believe he was wearing a fat suit or something that could be unzipped and pulled off, it was a phrase he used to describe the weight he had gained. He made her think that he had gained weight on purpose and he normally wasn't an overweight guy, but did so to help with her "tests" in some way. Sarma saying, "Are you going to take off the fat suit?" is her asking if he's going to lose the weight and return to his ~true self~ as he promised.
I noticed they tended to speak a lot in poetic ways. It ties back to the statement by Sarma that she was always attracted to quirky, artistic people and felt different from others a lot of the time. I also liked when the Variety reporter made the connection between those who practice veganism with those who buy into crystals, astrology, cosmic connections. It felt like Anthony understood this about Sarma- though it was never directly explored about her in the film- and played into it to get money out of her.
Yeah, it was obvious she took it as a supernatural test. He claimed he wasn't even human. I'm disappointed in this podcast not picking up such a basic concept
I don't understand why "dumb girl" is being used. Am I the only one who has had to correct someone by saying she is not a dumb girl he is a psychotic manipulative man. Why are we so focused on her??? What about what he did???
My old roommate financially abused me, and let me tell you that denial and "Seeing what you want" in a situation can get you thinking and doing really weird things. It's really easy to ignore red flags or to brush them off or excuse them.
I think people are underestimating the all encompassing nature of psychological abuse. It’s never all at once, it’s a gradual sinking into a new framework of reality.
She could have been cognizant of her crimes while simultaneously feeling out of control. She no longer had autonomy over her life, even her mind. He had access to everything - and she felt as if she was always being watched. That sort of environment produces discipline and compliance, even to do criminal acts that hurt the ones you love.
While she is still guilty, she is also a victim of severe abuse which precipitated her crimes.
The internet breeds false diametric ways of thinking: either she is dumb and guilty or a complete victim. And it makes it difficult to have nuanced and empathetic discussions, especially when many people have not experienced this sort of abuse.
He was clearly preying on her fears and desires: to be wealthy, to never die, to move beyond the bounds of this world; This was his bludgeon.
Lastly, there is no such thing as a "reasonable victim," because there is no such thing as reasonable abuse.
I really like this take!!
Great comment 👍🏻👍🏻
Absolutely spot on. Twitter, for all of its “holier than thou” takes on things, and others still doesn’t understand things such as cohersive control and abuse which is 100% what happened here.
People who are coerced into certain behaviour do alter their framework, as you rightly said.
She definitely deserves more sympathy than she is getting. Being abused over years can turn the most moral, gregarious people into shells of themselves. Abuse victims are also known for being desperate to believe things will get better.
Even the greeks knew about the horrors of hope. There’s a reason hope was the last thing left in Pandora’s box; it’s the one thing that allows people to endure even the worst of things in life. Hope is great in some ways but is awful in many ways.
I feel like the discomfort that comes from her experiences “contradicting each other” (ex: framing this as whether she knew what she was doing or not) comes from this type of abuse being so intrusive and so unsettling.
The pieces of what she’s doing don’t “make sense” because they’re not supposed to. They’re products of making her mind an unsafe place for her and meant to take that state even further. Something seems wrong because it is and I think equating “unreliability” or related feelings with the idea that “shes not going through this to the extent that she claims” plays into the stigma around this and similar types of abuse. It’s something the abuser counts on others and even the subjects themselves to believe.
I really wish the documentary had interviewed a psychologist or someone well educated in this kind of mental/emotional abuse to help explain the psychology behind what was happening to Sarma. I think having a professional weigh in on the situation would help people put it into better context since most people cannot relate to something so seemingly absurd. What she did was wrong and people suffered because of her actions AND I don't think she could have done anything different under the circumstances. She did not benefit one bit from this situation so I don't understand people who think she had any control or intentions to commit fraud for her own benefit.
*Just as a preface, I have a degree in psychology, and I have always been very intelligent and successful from a business standpoint.* It's so, SO hard to understand how someone could be so "convinced" of certain things. Also around 24:46-25:25 i have to disagree--i've been in a relationship with a diagnosed psychopath (ASPD) and narcissist (NPD) that abused me mentally and physically. I have a restraining order against him now, but even 2 years after cutting contact, despite how terribly he treated me for the entire relationship, I found myself reaching out. When I learned about this type of thing in school, I couldn't understand it logically or even empathetically (even as a painfully empathetic and co-dependent person). Once I was in a relationship with someone like this, I realized how you can never rationalize it to those who haven't experienced it ...or even YOURSELF. I feel a lot of shame around this because I'm so knowledgeable about the red flags and behaviors--I can even identify in the moment when I'm being gaslit or manipulated. It's just such a complex--possibly impossible--thing to explain or understand. Loved this podcast though and love you both :)
Also, my relationship was public and it was all over TMZ when he went to jail for domestic ass*ult and vandalism, etc. When we were photographed together two weeks later, I had a crazy amount of hate thrown my way from mostly women telling me how stupid I am. It's a very frustrating dynamic because I agreed with them to an extent--like I said it's just so complex and I wish there was a way to really rationally explain what's happening in the brain. He also scammed me with money several times and took over our business & bank accounts. I'm not agreeable in general nor am I easily convinced or swayed by people. I appreciate you saying that you can never understand what she went through and you can never know, because it's sadly very true.
This comment needs to be pinned. Thank you.
I have a degree in Psych too and I completely agree! Even with the knowledge, it's a completely a different story when it's happening in your own life! We're still human and struggle to separate from those emotional vulnerabilities.
Thank you. Anthony Strangis is absolutely a psychopath (and I also believe he has narcissistic personality disorder) and even the smartest people can be brainwashed. I'm disappointed in the amount of people who are vilifying Sarma and not him.
There's no logic in emotional response
i was the unfortunate victim of a phone scam a couple years back; i live with my parents & am on their phone plan - all our phones started ringing incessantly one evening so i answered, the guy said he was with AT&T (the carrier we use) & that we were going to have a service outage that evening & he was going to text me a code to verify he spoke with me, so i gave him the code & thought not much of the whole thing. not even 20 minutes later, my phone service is down & my phone is saying my SIM card was deactivated. i went straight to the AT&T store & spent about an hour getting it sorted out, but essentially, they used that code to access the ability to add a new user to our account, did so, got a brand new iphone with the most storage, had it activated under my phone number, & got to walk out of the store with a brand new phone. 🙃 & im not an idiot, like i have a bachelors degree & im relatively tech savvy; the guy introduced himself with an employee number & all that, it felt legit & i didn’t think about the purpose when we would typically be sent a code.. idk, it was pretty shitty.
I feel lucky to live somewhere where the main used language is french, I have never received a scam call or text anywhere that I believed because of that. No company I’ve ever been associated with will reach out to me in English anywhere. My ex from 5 years ago spoke only English and he forgot to change his emergency contact for his alarm system. I completely forgot about that so when they called I thought it was a scam 😂 the lady never answered any of my questions and she spoke at such a fast pace I couldn’t understand anything that she was asking. I ended up telling her to send the cops to his place ! 😭 Later that day my ex reached out to tell me the lady didn’t send the cops and said I was very helpful on the call. I wonder who she talked to 😂
Just finished watching it. Like most of us, I have the first reaction of "how tf anyone would believe this". But the same way you can ask "Why a woman in a relationship where her husband is beating her doesn't just leave?". It's never that simple.
I felt that when Cristine said she'd pay 2mil for Menchie to live forever. My kitty is so sick right now and I'm already close to 1k in in vet bills 😭 but it's well worth it, I just want him to feel better. He's only 9 😭
I'm so sorry to hear that, I hope your kitty gets better soon
So sorry! Hope your furry friend feels better ❤️
The podcast A Little Bit Culty had an interview with her this week! I recommend it if you’re interested in hearing her perspective and I really recommend the podcast as an educational source that deals with demystifying the indoctrination process and laying out how cults (in this case, a “cult of one”) are able to do what they do
Edit: A Little Bit Culty is actually hosted by Sarah and Nippy from The Vow!
Nice info. Thanks
Ben reminds me of my grandpa. He does the same kind of rumbly “aaaa” sound as filler, instead of “like” or etc. It’s really comforting, just because I love my grandpa lol. It’s nice seeing him in other people, even when they have absolutely no connection whatsoever
A raw vegan cheesecake is my fave, soak cashews in water for 4 hours/overnight, blend until totally smooth, add maple syrup, cinnamon, vanilla beans and add fresh blueberries, then make a base of walnuts and almonds, blend until still pretty chunky, can add cacao powder if you want it chocolaty. Put the base down, then add the cashew mix and freeze overnight - top with more blueberries and coconut cream if desired. Then order a personal pie from dominoes.
sounds yummy, I will try this out one day
That sounds delicious! Also, raw vegan lime cheesecake is good, too!
It's so easy to look back at something with all the information, and a neat chronological timeline, and say 'well, how could you NOT have known?'. But that's not how brainwashing works. It's a slow process, and eventually you can be made to believe a completely alternate reality, shaped by your abuser. That's what makes this kind of abuse so incredibly insidious and difficult to prosecute. And it affects victims for the rest of their lives. So I'm a very simple person in such situations and I just believe the victim. Because even if they did know at some point that things weren't exactly right; someone else manipulated and abused you, you are still a victim, and it's not fair of us to look in from the outside and expect a victim of such abuse to reason and act like we would.
Same thing happened to my sister (minus the 1.7M). I grew up around her and her now ex saying crazy things like that and saw the manipulation. It was so frustrating watching the doc. Hit so close to home
He would tell us with a straight face that my sister was the reincarnation of cleopatra and that him and my sister have been lovers in past lives and continue to find each other. Literally the craziest, most narcissistic things. I have so many stories 😵💫
They asked my parents for money to start a “construction business” in Mexico??? And would never give us details. She would let him and join him in talking down to me and my other sisters. I still don’t know if that business was real. He also said he was a shaman??? And he would give predictions and cleansed to Mexican politicians???? My sister has never told me the full truth lol
You da best - only podcast I watch on RUclips religiously!
Very interesting podcast. On her revenue from Netflix going directly to the victims, it has to be that way because of the law, it was the same with the deal they made with Anna Sorokin for "Inventing Anna". There is a law that forbids cons or ex cons to profit from their crime, so in this case all Netflix gave her to gain the rights to tell her story and appear in the documentary had to go towards starting reimbursing her victims. Regarding why she contacted this man again, I have a friend who I met after she got out of a long relationship with a narcissist (whose previous partner committed suicide, by the way). Despite going through therapy, taking back the reins of her career and acknowledging all his manipulations tactics, on anniversaries, birthdays or so on you get the feeling that she is both dreading and hoping he will reach out to her. It is a bad form of dependency and it takes a very long time and a long therapy and healing process to avoid the temptations to "go back", which is why so many women take back their physical and/or emotional abusers time and time again. It is like an addiction to which you always risk falling back, especially in moments of loneliness or other personal issues.
When I heard the name “Sarma” that was hilarious to me because in my country, that’s a cabbage roll dish that’s cooked and filled with rice and beef lol I don’t like watching documentaries like this, but I’m glad to hear a summary from you guys. I even watched the preview and her boyfriend automatically gave me a big 🚩
Psychological manipulation doesn’t happen all at once. A person starts with something that’s more plausible to believe to convince the other person and gradually makes each belief/task more outrageous. It’s like how cults and even MLM’s work. But the best way to manipulate someone is to capture them at their emotionally weakest or a belief that is more uncommon/sympathizing with them. If you’re people-pleasing or lonely, those people are easier to manipulate to doing what that person wants.
I am here for the food talk ^^
hmhmmm sarma 😅wine leafs are used too
Sarma is a traditional Latvian name 🌞
@@londonmellow Yes I have had it with grape leaves before too! But I am more used to cabbage lol
Came to comment this:)
re: the idea "why would she want to talk to him after prison if she really was as much of a victim as she claims?/ she would be scared." That isn't actually always true. i know someone who was in a "cult of one" relationship for years. And a couple years later, when she was fighting cancer, the manipulator reached out "innocently". This guy was someone her brain DEEPLY and FOR A LONG TIME associated as someone who made her feel important and special. Even though she logically knew he was abusive, it takes the brain a LONG TIME to not only build new but also disconnect old neuropathways relating to the abuser. My friend ended up talking to him again for months. Thankfully she had people who were able to pull her out of it and support her and "the old pathways" to have been uprooted. To me, the fact that on the call Sarma made the remark about how it would take "shapeshifting" for her to believe him actually makes me believe she's telling the truth. It's just very in line with how someone who was manipulated and indoctrinated may act years later, like the majority of the trust in him was gone but there was still a hint of it. Very typical of cult victims.
I LOVE THESE PODCASTS 👹👹 GAWD literally I can play them while I do anything
Same !! I end up rewatching them between episodes too haha
@@Olivia-qi3cp me too!!
I just hope you know that you make it impossible to describe what this podcast is to other people but love all your guys' thoughts. You really try to look at multiple sides and I appreciate it. Very interesting things to think about.
This literally happened to my friend in highschool. My friend had a boyfriend that convinced her he was part of a secret military experiment and that he had a clone. I could not believe my friend believed this bullshit and was literally yelling at both of them (I was also young and stupid) but it’s shown me how easily manipulated some people are and how they get targeted by terrible people. I don’t think she gave him money, I think he just liked controlling her. They eventually broke up and she is doing great now.
I just gotta say; even if you are a victim you can get trauma bonded to that person and even after years of healing, you still can go back to the abuser or talk to them, and minimize the abuse, it’s a way of coping.
By the way I love how true crime has shifted to stories of fraud instead of exploiting murder and rape victims
And outing these people with their faces in very visible places to hopefully prevent anyone from becoming victims of them again!
^^^^ Exactly
The subject of people scamming and getting scammed is a really interesting one, it's difficult to put my finger on why that is. But I've, for example, watched the documentary about the Fyre festival and the figurative dumpster fire that followed and it's so mesmerizing to watch because you can't understand why people are willing to believe this one guy.
Cristine, Ben, thank you for another very interesting podcast! I've been watching the simply channels for a long time now, and while I've always enjoyed the humor of the main channel videos, the thoughtful explorations of both general societal questions and specific details of particular industries (like nail polish, glitter, trademark registration, and influencer deals) are incredibly fascinating.
As far as the menu question goes, I went to a fancy "raw" vegan restaurant near where I live once for a family event. That particular one had rules on exact temperatures that couldn't be reached, but they would still bring ingredients extremely close to that temperature for extended periods of time (several hours or even multiple days in some instances). They would also dehydrate and chemically treat foods in various molecular gastronomy sorts of ways. The end result was still what I would have considered "cooked", or even "fried" in some instances. I suspect this varies a lot between restaurants, though.
thank you so much for this!! Interesting!! - Cristine
As a victim of psychological abuse, I wanted to watch it so I could watch this podcast. These are the things I took away from it:
1. This took years of gaslighting and psychological abuse and people are watching it in a 4 piece documentary so it’s easy to judge when you know the outcome so fast
2. She eventually knew it was wrong but didn’t know how to get out of it and was embarrassed to say when it hit her
3. She was so convinced of him and his lies but called him the love of her life in the beginning. so when you feel that way about a person you don’t want to believe they would deceive you like that
4. When people have that kind of money in that kind of circle she was in, they do help each other out. Giving her that money back a little bit here and there still pulls her along
5. She definitely thinks she was dumb once he separated her away from everyone and she knew she lost everything because of him. It seems she just doesn’t want to come out and say she was that dumb at that time
6. Calling him to me shows she has some sort of Stockholm syndrome. I unfortunately deal with the same thing from my past. It’s awful, you know it’s wrong and most of the time you don’t act on it. You do have to talk yourself down from from not contacting that person that you are supposed to hate.
This was such a crazy documentary but we need to understand with situations like this, it does happen all the time. For example: Scientology, Qanon, and Manson family, etc
Thank you for talking about this! It pushed me to watch it and was interesting seeing someone go through something similar emotionally. Love y’all and the podcast
excited for the 100th episode!! seeing a new pod every week never fails to brighten my day so thank you for this :]
I was with my ex for 22 years. We bought a house together. We originally split everything 50/50, or so I thought. To be honest, I never saw the cost of the utilities for our home. The utilities and the mortgage came out of my husband's account because he got paid bi-weekly and had a more regular payment schedule, whereas I got paid bi-monthly on different days. It just made sense to have it come out of his account since his pay was consistent.
We worked out what seemed like a fair and balanced payment schedule where I would transfer a certain amount to him when I got paid twice a month. I had more personal expenses, and our original agreement took that into consideration. For example, he didn't drive or have a car, so no car payments, insurance, gas... that was around $600 a month, and I also paid $350 a month just to get to and from work on the train. So he paid a little more toward our shared expenses so that I could survive having so many personal expenses... not that those expenses were really personal. He obviously benefited from me having a car, and I made more money at the job I had to travel for...
After a couple years he told me that he thought it was unfair that he was supplementing money that contributed to my personal expenses. He said it was killing him financially, so I agreed to just splitting the house expenses 50/50, and I carried the personal expenses on my own.
After a few years of this arrangement, he quit his job one evening without discussing it with me. His job was stressful, causing anxiety and bad for his mental health. When I criticized him for making such a huge decision without my input, he accused me of not caring whether he lived or died. He'd cashed out his RRSPs to have some money to contribute to our expenses during his unemployment.
He'd always struggled with alcoholism, but it got significantly worse while he was unemployed. It took him 5 months to find a job. During that time he racked up a ton of credit card debt and drank all day every day. Obviously I took on all of the financial responsibilities because I had no choice, he couldn't afford to help while unemployed, but always had money for alcohol.
When he was finally employed again at a much lower hourly wage than the job he'd quit, I continued to pay for more of our expenses so he could focus on paying down the debt accumulated during his unemployment.
Whenever I would try to talk about money, try to figure out why we were so destitute, he would tell me the inflation on the utilities was astronomical and I trusted him. He would get drunk and tell me I paid for nothing, that he paid for everything, and that I had no idea how much he paid... but he was never willing to tell me how much he paid. He was always drunk, so it was an ordeal to try to get any information out of him. In hindsight I could have looked at the bills that came in, but he was always on it, and would get the utilities bills and pay them and file the paperwork the same day. I trusted him.
During the pandemic the alcoholism got worse and he started taking time off work because he could get away with it. So he'd get paid less and less... I'd get a pay increase and bonuses, and he'd take a week off work and I'd have to pay to make up for that. I only just started to realize I was being taken advantage of.
In December I finally asked for a divorce. Realizing the free ride was ending, he snapped and physically assaulted me. I had to call 911 because I thought he was going to kill me.
It was horrible to be betrayed by my spouse, but it was also the best thing that ever happened to me because it was the catalyst that got me out of a terrible relationship and opened my eyes to his deception.
In the aftermath of the split I had to contact the utilities companies and have them transfer the bills to me. I realized that he had been paying maybe 1/6th of what I was paying toward our shared expenses.
Since he's been gone, not only have I been able to pay for everything, I'm no longer living paycheck to paycheck and I'm actually saving money. I feel like a fool for trusting him. I'm a smart woman with a good job, but I just trusted him and fell for his gaslighting...
I'm happy this is finally over but sad that you had to go through all this. But you are more stronger and more smarter because of that. Wish you all the best in your life ❤️
I've heard of other cases where someone, usually a man, lies to everyone saying he is a secret agent in the government (CIA), and tricks someone into something. I've heard of these men tricking others into committing murder, into a murder/suicide situation, into financial/family abuse, etc. These guys end up being master manipulators who prey on someone who is vulnerable and/or also not fully mentally sound.
I honestly haven’t even seen or heard of this show but I just love listening to you guys talk! You have the best discussions it’s like hanging out with friends 🥰definitely intellectually stimulating
I think her having contact with him after everything is similar to texting an ex. You want a glimmer of what you were attached to for validation or closure.
I've just had an interesting revelation - thanks to listening to 99 of these podcasts, I am now much better at explaining myself calmly and without judgement. I'm pretty sure this is a direct influence of listening to Cristine and Ben discuss such a wide range of topics respectively, without getting petty or bitchy. It's been great for my relationships with family, friends and colleagues, so thank you to SimplyPodLogical!!!
I look forward to this podcast so much every week! Thanks guys for another great one
One common adage I heard in my business law class (just took courses for my business degree not a law degree) was “ignorance is not a defense” so lack of knowledge of the law or of the scam falls on you not the people you scammed and ultimately they are responsible for their actions whether they knew or didn’t know it was a scam
Let's just say I was fooled by my ex. Looking back at it, everything was wrong. Red flags all the time. Right after the other. But yeah took me 4 yrs to get out of that hell hole of a relationship.
Same, I totally feel for you. It's hard to see it in the moment sometimes. Glad you got out!
cooking foods just in general does tend to lower overall nutritional value but it also tends to make the food much easier to digest and makes the vitamins and nutrients much easier for your body to absorb.
so the actual amount of nutrients and vitamins your body can successfully absorb is about the same either way.
.
how ever raw foods will fill you up faster and you'll digest and absorb fewer calories overall just because your stomach is full.
like a large bowl of raw kale easily cooks down to 1/2 to 1 cup of cooked kale and the nutritional value as far as your digestive system is the same.
but you can have a lot more food in your stomach with the 1 cup of cooked kale giving you some nutritional and flavour variety, but you'll get full before you even finish the large bowl of raw kale.
plus people with weaker or more sensitive digestive systems are going to struggle more with digesting the raw kale but but an easier time with the cooked kale.
Just finished the series today! Excited for the podcast!!!
I think the idea of "victim vs perpetrator" is especially important today, because it's never, and I mean never, as simple as one or the other. We tend to make quick judgment calls based on the information in front of us, but that's always only a tiny fraction of the story leading up to an incident. A person in an abusive relationship is a victim, but they will almost always be a perpetrator in some way to other people -- whether it's children who are stuck in the house too, by redirecting onto someone else & continuing the cycle, etc. We can have sympathy for people and give them the help they really need, even people who have done really terrible things, and ALSO hold them accountable for the terrible things, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Thank you Cristine for going into that, I loved hearing your thoughts!
Never been this early. I have waited all day for this podcast. Finally 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌 love you guys, tnx ❤️
For the very unimportant question on how raw vegan food tastes like, I can say that it is actually quite tasty (in restaurants.. I don't know how raw vegans cook at home). I'm vegan and in many hip healthy restaurants, there are often also raw options, and the deserts are really nice; blended cashews and raw cocoa for cheesecakes or mousses and stuff.. I think for savory foods, sometimes fermentation is allowed and obviously you can also have the "healthy" things like zoodles with blended cashew sauces and stuff, the main difference is probably how most things are cold.. not really my thing but I do sympathize a bit with the assumption that nutrients might get lost in boiling food
I think the question of who she was borrowing the money off and how ready they were to do it is a really interesting one. I certainly didn't come from a family background where you could ask for large amounts of money *at all* (let alone regularly).
How does that environment impact you going forward?
Was kinda bummed my bday was on a Tuesday, but then I remembered that this gets posted on Tuesdays. So happy taco Tuesday/my bday!☺️🌮✨
Christine I do feel the need to point out that the psychological connection to abusers doesn't go away as soon as they're "free" and out of it. I had a friend whose ex was physically abusive. Cops called. He was jailed but my friend didn't want to press charges. And a month later he's still talking to his ex and planning a trip to Mexico. Alone. Do not blanket your statement about the psychological effects behind abuse because they're complicated. The complex psychology, and blanket statements like that may make someone who is being abused feel even more shame and isolated
I can see how people can get way too deep into certain scams and at some point you go along with it because of fear whatever that fear may be.
I remember when i was 22 and renting a house out of state for just a year for a work thing a younger man came to my house and offered to mow my lawn for $20. I agreed because i had the means and anyone willing to go out and do work like that needs the cash, ill rarely say no. But the first time i was tipped off of something suspicious was when he mowed my front lawn and then at some point when i wasnt looking he went and mowed the back yard as well without permission. Then when he came to collect the money he told me he wanted $40. I told him I only had $20 and only agreed to the front yard. I agreed to pay him another $20 the next week but i wouldnt need his services anymore.
The next week he came and instead of knocking on the door and asking for the remaining $20 he mowed my front lawn then knocked and asked for another $40 for the extra work. He did this week after week and became aggressive when I tried to tell him not to come back. Eventually when I stopped answering the door he would stand at it and pound for 30-40 minutes and I was terrified. At some point he brought a large group of his friends to intimidate me and I had to ask my partner to give them their last $40 and tell them never to come back. It wasnt until HE spoke to them that they actually backed down.
The intimidation and manipulation of women is disgusting and I, much like Cristine here, have a hard time not feeling bias towards women who provide evidence that they have been manipulated no matter how “dumb” the scam may seem.
OMGGGGGGG thank you for talking about this, it drove me crazy!!!
Haven’t watched the series, but I’m a survivor of mental, emotional, and financial abuse. (And sexual, but it’s not really relevant here).
Just wanted to comment on how strong of a ‘drug’ denial and delusion is, especially while being abused. Even if there’s a part of you that knows the truth, the cognitive dissonance between what you know is true vs what you want/need to be true creates a chasm that only gets bigger the deeper into the abuse you get, and the worse the situation gets. The more obvious a scam is, if you’re already sucked into it, the stronger an individual’s denial and delusion will be.
There’s definitely a line in which a victim can become a perpetrator, but I think it’s still important to frame them as first a victim. It’s not like they took actions that perpetrated fraud and abuse in an empowered, lucid position.
While in a lucid and reasonable state, it’s hard to imagine just how deep delusion can go, but survivalism and logic don’t go hand in hand.
Hi, I have never been a part of an mlm and I used to think the same thing. (Like how can you fall for this? Your a smart person) But after learning more about mlm and listening to stories of those people who falling for mlms that smart college education people fall for MLMs and scams everyday it doesn’t make them less smart. There are so many things people do to make people fall prey to mlms and other scams
I see Cristine’s nails again, and can tell that she’s hiding something 😁😁😁
Congrats on the 100th podcast for next week ❤❤❤❤❤❤
its sorta like how people in abusive relationships dont realise their being abused until something awful happens and even then they might brush it under the rug and consider it 'normal'
A lot of people who are victimized by these up-close, professional scammers (& even cults) are vulnerable because of their intelligence. They often times know they are smart and therefore could not be "fooled" or that they have better instincts than "average" people.
There is also a connection to their ego surrounding their being smarter or special.
That does not negate that they are also victims.
So excited to hear what you think about Bad Vegan. I was PERPLEXED watching that series.
I'm only 2 minutes in but I gotta say that Sarma is a famous dish in Croatia (and in the entire Balkan region), consisting of fermented cabbage wrapped around minced meat mixed with rice. So it's hilarious to me that someone is named Sarma, I keep on imagining my compatriots reacting to her name hahahahahahaha
I actually had Vegan Sarma once, I think that was in Novi Sad. It was really good!
I'm about 15min in, when Cris and Ben are taking about how could someone fall for a scam like this. And while I don't know the details of the relationship between Sarma and the "black ops" guy - this feels similar to the conversation around physically abusive relationships. To parallel this relationship - why does an abused woman stay in a relationship when she's being physically assaulted on a daily basis? There is so much that goes into that - mental/emotional manipulation, control, history of similar relationships...so much more. Also the pillars of cults come to mind as well - how to people fall for the doctrines of truly horrible, abusive, scammy cults? It's all in the same realm to me. When looking at it through that lens, it's not at all unbelievable to me.
*Edit - and then Cris mentions cults, lol. These kinds of relationships are so complicated. The argument that at some point a reasonable person (or when you are victimizing someone else) would realize and do something is... Also complicated. I think of abused partners with children who are also being abused. A reasonable parent should absolutely not allow such things... But it happens. Same as in cults. The number of children who are horrifyingly abused in cults is appalling. Do the parents have some culpability in that? Yes. Does that mean the parents aren't also victims? No. A person can be both. It's sad that she doesn't seem to own her own culpability.... Maybe she'd benefit from a addict counseling, as there are many parallels there as well. Yes, there are things that you don't control and you are subject to, but that doesn't absolve you of your own behavior.
I just finished this series last night! It’s incredibly interesting to me bc I could never imagine falling for such a crazy scam! Although I do see how it could happen.
she was still under the belief he was black ops. she met his dad and he basically confirmed his story. meaning the dad was part of the scam. so i think she was also scared that if she left, he'd have the means to get to her and her family and hurt them
I LOVE the way you discuss... LOVE IT
You should watch The Puppet Master: Hunting the Ultimate Conman . It’s a similar con man scenario based in the UK - it’s fascinating to see how these people manage to be successful in their cons. Very scary…
I know you’ve talked about NFTs on the podcast before, but I would love an episode where you do a deep dive into the crypto scams, particularly those scams in the influencer world. You have such a unique perspective that we (viewers) can’t get anywhere else
I was painting my nails when Ben said for the 100th episode y'all were starting an nft... I got polish all over my thumb for laughing so hard.
I always say, just bc I am book smart does not mean I am boy smart. I got my BA and MA in statistics in 4 years. I am currently a data science consultant. But when I fall in love I am a complete idiot. I make poor decisions when it comes to men. Ive burnt through thousands of dollars trying to help a helpless man. And I never learn my lesson. I totally can see how this happened to such a seemingly smart successful woman on paper.
This is kind of similar to another movie I watched on Hulu, it was like a docuseries but I can't remember the name! Great podcast guys, well done 👏
pausing the video to say this so i don't know if they also say something along the lines of this but as a person who has decades worth of experience of being on the receiving end of emotional abuse before realizing and still being unable to fight my way out, i can understand how people fall for scams and why it takes so so long for them to realize. i have known that i am being abused for around 5 years now and still only half a conversation throws me back into believing that i must be in the wrong for thinking anything like this. These people (abusers and scammers) are master manipulators. They slowly seep into our minds, find every thing that makes us vulnerable, cut off any source of help or power to gain complete control over us.
Starting my work day with this, thanks guys
I love how open Ben is now. You're both great 😂
This wasn't a scam, it was what they call a "long con". He was working her slowly and deliberately. Those are the hardest fraudsters to catch. When someone steals your purse and runs down the street, you know they're a thief, and so does everyone else. When the person you've been in some kind of relationship with for a while talks you into giving them your money a little at a time until it's gone, that's a lot harder to see for what it is. It's hard to prosecute him when she gave him the money. Ben I agree, why didn't her friends step up and say something? Kristine, I agree that if someone says they want other people to learn from their mistake, they have to acknowledge they made a mistake and are therefore partially at fault.
Recently discovered Kitboga, who plays with scam callers, and it's almost always the one that Ben mentioned
I love how Cristine always goes from all perspectives and trying to consider every possibility before answering any of Ben's questions, but when asked how much would she pay so Menchie would live for ever, she didn't think it twice and just replied "Two million dollars!!!"
In my opinion she was manipulated and scammed until certain point, then she understood what had happened however there was no going back. As she said at the end when dept reached millions of dollars it doesn't matter anymore cause this amount of money is just unimaginable. She must have understood that and just went with a flow cause on the paper she was the one borrowing money and guilty.
I agree. When all her employees walked out the 1st time and her restaurant shut down that should have been her rock bottom. Something was clearly wrong and she should have seen that she needed to change because she was screwing the lives of the employees that depended on her. The fact that she did it s SECOND TIME is when my pity runs dry. It should have never happened again, she was definitely aware at that point and just trying to do damage control
I dont think this podcast truly represented how people can't be emotionally manipulated
This docu wasn’t on my radar but it was totally worth the watch last night. What a rollercoaster! I can definitely see how someone who has a solid head on their shoulders could be slowly manipulated and threatened to do the things that happened here. All of the Black Ops lies and the disappearances to “go make the world a safe place” would probably make anyone fear the consequences of breaking things off. The strange stories about a higher realm and immortality threw me off, like what state of mind do you have to be in to believe those sorts of things are possible? I noticed the screen shots if emails included the signature “sent from another dimension” and the employee protest signs had comments to the tune of “come back to earth” or “pay us on this planet” so she really must have been getting in deep with the weird other dimension/immortality thing. I hope she’s getting psychological help and I hope that guy doesn’t manipulate yet another woman. (Also, how lucky was the first wife?!)
Yes. All the comments of having found oneself in an abusive relationship and being surprised at it, because you're a smart person.... So very much for me too. On the long hard journey of healing my mental health now, but I had many flashbacks of my time of abuse and I wish I had known in advance what the real story was. I was able to handle the PTSD triggers thanks to my hard therapy work, but clearly a lot of other women are experiencing similar memories and they may be at more risk, emotionally. This was irresponsible broadcasting to not give warning of the sensitive content. Unless they did and I missed it, but I don't think they did 😕
Shout out to all you beautiful souls who are keepin' on every day away from that abusive situation 💞💞💞
Dang I early! I hope you and ben are good!
Unrelated to the topic but I love Ben's sweater.
As someone who was gaslit for years i understand how you can do and believe awful, horrible things. It's beyond me how i could have been taken advantage of by someone for so long. In my case, I believe mental health played a huge part and that depression can make you susceptible to scams or cults or other mental manipulation.
this podcast is my only source of happiness right now 😭
Love you guys, I hope you're doing well!
I loved Pure Food & Wine. I was raw vegan in that era and it was the best restaurant on the east coast. I was so sad when it closed but I guess I know why now! LOL
Oooh I can tell already that this is gonna be good, grab the popcorn y'all
Great episode!
Omg holo christine im so happy im early for the pod cast :}
I missed when ben called us supersimps.
ngl, these last 5 minutes were the best ;D
You guys should watch Three Identical Strangers! I was so captivated the entire time and I did not expect the plot twist
Cristine makes a great point with women being targeting towards scam on an emotional level. I see that dynamic in my own parents purely because our society reinforces the ideologies of hegemonic masculinity *sigh*
It really is easy to say "well once he hit you why didn't you leave" but once you are in the situation it is completely different. She was easy to manipulate, and once you are isolated from your friends and family, no one is there to tell you what is going on. Even if they do, the abuser has primed you to resist them, saying "you don't understand, I love him" or "it was only once" or so far as "you just don't want me to be happy." I think there was complacency on her part, and she ignored the crimes just to continue this fantasy of another world. He found something that she would want to believe, and went off of that. Some people are just particularly vulnerable, especially if they are unsatisfied or seeking "more" in their life. The difficult thing is trying to figure out what extent mitigating factors that the law cares about.
Wharton is a pretty renowned Ivy League business school. She did do culinary training after that, tho.
I’d like to see a similar discussion on the podcast about Anna Delvey. I know the drama series “Inventing Anna” has some inaccuracies, but there are some documentaries about her that could give you an all round understanding
Please know I watched this so I could listen to this episode !
Hearing Cristine speak and develop on her stance as to why you can't know if she was a victim or a perpretator really makes me see why she was her profs favorite
"About a vegan woman that eats a pizza" 🤪😂😂. I just finished watching it tonight and this made me LOL
In the documentary, she sounded like someone who is still in their trauma and disassociating. I hope she's getting professional help to cope with the pathology that attracts/attracted her to her scammer. I feel empathy for how she was victimized; she also hurt a lot of people. The themes in the Sarma story reminds me of many of the same themes that run parallel to addiction in many ways. There should be empathy for having the disease and whatever comorbidities may have lead to the addiction, but many struggling with addiction hurt a lot of people very significantly, especially the ones closest to them that love them the most. I hope her family is able to seek healing and professional help to build healthy boundaries with her to stay in safe-connection. One of the hardest pills to swallow is believing in a loved one's goodness and wanting to stay connected to them, but but knowing it's impossible without managing extremely tight boundaries in order to do so safely.
im so early! this seems like an interesting episode💖