I don’t care what Buick is or does on the other side of the globe if it were up to me Buick would be in the history books I would strayically reintroduce Pontiac over a 36 month period starting with a LeMans then a GTO then a FireHawk then a Catalina all Coupes & 4 doors NO SUVs or CUVs & Never any MINI vans convertible & T tops would be I’m Emediately available as would 10 spd automatics & 8&10 spd manuals as a no cost option Cloth or Leather no cost or penalty to switch over when ordering and the engine would be a Boxer 4 cylinder direct injection Supercharged 600 HP Motor or optional Limited production 800 HP supercharged V 8 all with a 10 year ONE MILLION MILE ZERO 0000000000000000 NO DEDUCTABLE and for the first year of production to help get the brand reestablisshed no New Production Model will exceed a MSRP $$ of 63,000 Dollars Yes it is very Possible we have the technology we have the Will & ability we have the ingenuity we have the labor force look back at all this great nation has accomplished and what this automotive industry has accomplished & endured over the last Century and there was always naysayers in the corporate boardrooms and in the factories and they said things like ABS & traction control & Airbags & Airsuspention & computer controlled engines & transmissions were not possible & lighter composite materials and the list goes on & on & on there was people that said we would never fly or journey into space or land on the Moon or tour the oceans floor or view detailed images within the human body
@@georgewilson1184 Getting rid of Buick makes no sense. Pontiac cannot appeal to upscale buyers. Without Buick, GM would make the same mistake with Cadillac that Ford made by downgrading Lincoln to where Mercury was. I never said that Pontiac shouldn't be brought back. I wanted Pontiac to be kept. It's GMC that should have been dropped. Buick is necessary because not everyone can afford a Cadillac.
I was disgusted and heartbroken when the Pontiac brand was dropped after abysmal sales of the most disgusting 🫣 car ever badged as a Pontiac, the Aztec. It was just plain ugly and had nothing to do with what Pontiac had become, a performance oriented brand. I have owned two Grand-am's with the 3.1 V-6. When I was able to upgrade, I bought my first Firebird Trans-Am in 1998 V-8. Another in 2000 V-8 with the six speed manual. The last one was a jet black 2002 Trans-Am with the WS-6 performance package and the V-8. It presently has 22,000 original miles. It has the Procharger super charger, twin air to air, cam, hooker headers, cat back exhaust running 3" pipe into flo-pro's. On a Mustang Dino, it made 527 HP to the rear wheels and 475 lbs of torque. It runs very low 12's in the 1/4. It's my Sunday driver and is in pristine condition. I drive my 1998 as a daily driver, and it also is in pristine condition. If GMC wanted to sell more cars, they should bring back the Pontiac brand. Build some retro upgrade cars like the GTO concept car shown a few months back with a 650 HP LS-7. I would place an order for one RIGHT NOW...TAKE MY MONEY 💰 🤑. Stop building these horrible firetrap electric cars that only appeals to an extremely small section of the population. Build cars Americans want to buy.
@CJColvin my aunt in 🇨🇦 Canada had an Acadian. First she had a yellow one than traded it in on a newer Green one. I always thought they were nice little cars. This was late 60's.
There were some Saturns at the very end of its run that were among the best looking cars sold in The U.S. I think some were re-badged versions of other brands, but they were still technically Saturns.
Pontiac was always GM’s performance division & I was surprised they axed it & kept Buick, Oldsmobile. As teenagers in the 60’s we always thought of Buick & Oldsmobile as “old guy cars”. I bought a used 67 GTO in 72 when I got back from Vietnam. It had its whole drivetrain replaced & ran like it was new. Fast car, 400 cid 4 barrel carb & 4 spd manual. Still kicking myself for trading it off. Worth a helluva lot more today.
Thanks for commenting. Yep unfortunately Buick and Oldsmobile had that stereotype of being an old guy’s car. I guess that’s why they tried to bring out cars like the Aurora to attract younger buyers.
Buick had higher worldwide sales. Makes no sense to throw away money. So buh-bye Poncho. Lots of guys in the 60s were ignorant of where the real performance was. Their uncles had GTOs and they became "fast" cars to kids. A Stage 1 or 2 GS455 would beat anything on the showroom floor in 1970 unless you were at a Yenko dealership or something like Baldwin Motion. The Stage 2 would mop up almost anything at all.
I did not, with all respect for those who did. Give me a Jim Rockford Firebird Esprit from “The Rockford Files” any day of the week.. I HATED the TransAm.. to me, it SCREAMED “REDNECK” because of “Smokey and the Bandit”.
I drove an oldsmobile for 9 years and my mom drove one for a long time too... we won't forget how nice they were. Those 90s GM cars are so nice and simple and last forever
I don't understand why GMC still exists. Pretty much every single one of their vehicles has an identical Chevy equivalent (apart from the Typhoon/Syclone). At least Pontiac had its own identity. As for Holden, in 2020 GM decided to leave all right-hand-drive markets entirely, so they sold off Opel/Vauxhall to PSA (now Stellantis) and cancelled Holden because Aussie car manufacturing had already died out. (But now they're bringing Cadillac back to Oz and NZ. 🤦♂️)
I have said for a long time that GMC is no longer necessary. Chevrolet can sell luxury trucks now and actually do. I would rather have an Escalade than a GMC Denali.
Because gmc is still popular and still gives them sales so why cut the nostalgia from people who love gmcs and only sell chevys there are gmc fans and chevy fans like me would be disappointed and if they remove gmc's division it would cause sale drops
@cheepda Oh, please! They would have gotten over it. GM truck people are still truck people. They would have been just fine. Ford didn't create an upscale truck brand. Why should GM have one when no one else does?
Pontiac and oldsmobile would be my choice. My mother owned three Pontiac's over the years. My grandparents owned 2 oldsmobile's. I own two buick sedans.
GM ruined Saturn. They were quality vehicles on par with Honda and Toyota when they were on their one. When GM bought them and just rebranded their already poor quality cars Saturns went down fast. I hope the government does bail GM out again. They need to just fold as a corporation.
EWTF are you talking about? GM created Saturn. It did so in an effort to learn how to make small cars as reliable and inexpensive as Honda, Toyota and Nissan. That is what the press release at the time said. I know this idiots video said otherwise, but he is wrong about Saturn and about 50% of everything he says in this video.
Pontiac would fit in, in today's power obsessed car. I can see the Grand Prix competing with the Charger if they adopted a RWD platform. They could have made the Firebird way more competitive with the Mustang and Challenger. At some point we'd probably have a varient of the LS that would be pushing the same numbers as the hellcats and demons from the factory. But GM being GM, they wouldnt have made them awesome cars anyway because itd take sales from the Camaro and Corvette. Pontiac had so much potential. Even the Aztek couldve been successful today, after a major redesign for tge second generation. All modern crossovers have that wierd split headlight look the Aztek pioneered in the early 00's.
Exactly. A modern Grand Prix would be RWD and the higher models could’ve been a competent Hellcat competitor. A modern GTO/Firebird could’ve taken the fight to the Mustang/Challenger. A modern Pontiac brand could’ve been all about performance figures. Now that’s excitement.
My quick takes: Pontiac...Too many fails before finally gaining some footing, and the Economic Crisis killed them. Saturn: Alot of R&D was spent making them different, and ticked off other Divisions. Eventually Saturn's were just clones of other GMs and rebadged Opels. Oldsmobile. Buyers were aging out and revival efforts didn't work.plus Olds and Buick seemed redundant SAAB: GM never made money with them OPEL: See Saab Hummer: Became the poster child for thirsty SUVs. Gas prices and preferences to more fuel efficient crossovers helped kill them. Wonderful vid Rob!
GM never made money directly from Opel, but it used its platforms and industrial developments to generate profits through Chevrolet in Brazil, Mexico, and other brands like Holden, etc. In other words, it used Opel's resources to develop products for Latin America and emerging markets like China and South Africa and even usa (via saturn) but did not reinvest the earnings in creating new products. This strategy ultimately destroyed Opel, as the revenue generated was used in other GM markets but was not reinvested directly in Opel itself.
@Carl_Z You are quite correct actually! There was also many Opel bits and platform designs that found their way into U.S. models over the years. I guess I was referring more to rebadges and original Opels brought here. Shame Opel was kind of wrung out like a sponge.
I wish they would bring back Pontiac. My mom had a Pontiac 6000 and Sunbird. My brother had 2 Grand Am GTs. I had a Sunbird, Bonneville, Grand Prix, and Grand Am GT. I loved that car.
Would really love to see Pontiac make a comeback. The early-mid 2000s performance lineup (GXP Bonneville/Grand Prix, GTO, TransAm & G8 GXP) was absolutely unbeatable. Each car brought their own flair and charm to the table and they all had the performance to back it up.
I enjoyed the video! The pair of divisions that I would revive would be Pontiac and Holden. With Saturn I think GM should have instead of badging opel models as Saturns, I think Saturn should have been the corporate template for GM's compact car program. Some uniqueness would be lost in this, but they could have kept the plastic door panels as a Saturn exclusive and kept their dealership model for those who wanted it that way. The opel models did not work out at all. I think part of the problem that Pontiac had was they wouldn't restrict Chevy. One of the biggest logical fallacies of General motors is this idea that the appliance division of the company is the division that gets the fastest coolest car and nothing may top it. This displays a severe lack of vision that the management has over this considering that Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, and other exotic sports car and supercar divisions have varying levels of performance and numerous models to pick from. They could have kept the Corvette the Corvette being a front engine pushrod V8 car for the traditional sports car for a price point and not worry about petty things like sharing a steering wheel and other bits and pieces with cheaper models. Then with Pontiac they could have made a mid engine supercar with a more exotic powertrain and given the Pontiac a bigger budget for the interior as well with the goal of this model call it the banshee or the fire hawk with the intention of competing more directly to the Ferraris and Lamborghinis of the world. Doing this would have added much more cache to the division as a whole. From here they needed to make the ordinary models from Pontiac stand out not only in the marketplace but within General motors themselves making models like the Grand Prix GXP exclusive to Pontiac and not offer a Chevy of equivalent. There should have been exclusive versions of the firebird offered in every single year of its production not just a one-off SLP firehawk every now and then to solidify it as the superior pony car. The Chevy would need to be powerful enough to beat the mustang which throughout the '90s was not a difficult task. They also needed to make more performance focused versions of the Sunfire / sunbird to offer a competitor to the likes of the eclipse and the lancer. They just needed to be America's performance division and not just rely on a couple models to carry the weight just to have Chevy undercut that move. Also whenever they decided to get into the SUV / crossover market, styling was only half of the mistake that came out of the Aztek. The other major mistake with the Aztek was there was nothing at all exciting about it from a performance standpoint. With BMW, Mercedes, and other divisions known for performance getting into the market, that was the direction Pontiac should have aimed for. They needed to have a SUV that was focused on on road performance Not a pop-up tent in the back.
Great comment and thanks for taking the time to type all of this. Lots of logic here. GM should hire you to run things. And the pop up tent had me laughing!
I agree; I've never understood why GM is so protective of the Corvette to the point of paranoia. That's why they shot down the Buick Reatta and Pontiac Fiero, even though those cars weren't even in the same universe as the Vette.
@@SomethingAboutCars My theory is the dealer's might be part of the problem. I know that some big mistakes such as the Cadillac cimarron was rushed to market due to pressure from the dealers. This is where I think GM needed to work out deals with the dealers that they could have more than one franchise but that certain models or trims were going to be superior in the superior divisions. Otherwise it undermines the whole idea of having different divisions.
I miss my Oldsmobile 98 Regency Elite. The Saturn vehicles were supposed to be the best parts of GM. Unfortunately, later on they were found to have engine fires which was recalled when wiring harnesses were found faulty. Later on, they just threw junk together so they could fold out the division.
I never got over the fact that GM let Oldsmobile die on the vine. During the 1980’s they had the Cutlass as GM’s best seller. Then it seems as they just gave up.
Especially the Cutlass Ciera. From 1982 to 1996 that was like their top selling model. But on the flip side I know that particular car was ancient and the brand had to progress with the time.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon the 78-87 Cutlass supreme also could be seen everywhere. They were so plentiful that there are still a good number of them in the roads . I think they were most popular G body cars some years
I stand by my assertion that the Kappa platform as an LNF application did not suffer from engine troubles by design. I owned one new and I one one now. Both very reliable in my experience, over 100K miles between the two by now. The water pumps had a bad batch of parts which accelerated failure, and the pump shaft, which is lubricated by the coolant, would turn against dried seals since the cars were used infrequently by most owners. My first one had one issue in 55K miles of ownership over four years, and it was a door latch striker that squeaked. Sole issue. My second one I have had since 2019 and the w/p did go bad in 2021. The car had 22K miles when I bought it. The seal dried out and around 60K miles it started to weep. 13 years after it was assembled. 77K miles now. It is a used car and has had the following additional issues: bad turn signal, 60 bucks and 1 hour to replace. bad door handle, 50 bucks and two hours to replace. Bad crank sensor, 50 bucks and 20 minutes to replace, while I was standing up. Used cars have some problems here and there. GM would have charged me lots of money to service those three additional failures, but since I spent 600 bucks on the M car manuals from GM, I saved three times that in repair costs on items that were faster to fix myself than to drive to and from the GM service center.
The aztek is definitely one they should never have gotten rid of!! My absolute favorite car and one of the ones i kept on the road for the longest time, took it camping for years and its jever failed me.. damn, i miss that car sooo much.😊
The Saturn Sky, Vue Redline & Pontiac Sky, G8, Trans-Am for sure! Saab was never a huge success in the USA and Oldsmobile was on life support since 1989.
My mom's manual shift 1993 SC2 went to 600k without even having to get new gaskets. It did need new everything else. It was a fantastic little car. So I gave it everything it needed at about 250k after the Saturn dealer absolutely infuriated me refusing to sell me the only ion redline they had. I left there telling them they were going to bankruptcy. I wish I was wrong honestly 😊
I love saturns. have had 2 so far, both Ions. They are unique, they are capable of surviving the salt belt, and they both use the 2.2 ecotec which I love, AND they offered them in 5 speed manual.
One thing I’ve always hated about GM is the fact that all their brands have the same chassis that are just brand engineered for each division. Saturn originally was supposed to be its own brand and wasn’t supposed to share chassis with any other brand. Their demise started when Saturn just became rebadged models of other GM brands. There’s really no reason to buy them other than if you prefer a certain headlight shape or a slightly different taillight style. Hummer H2 and H3’s were basically Suburbans and Trailblazers with body kits, the Cobalt, The Ion and the G5 we’re basically the same car, every current SUV they make is just a few chassis with a few different appearances to make them look like a certain brand, and brands like Buick only really exist because they sold extremely well in the Chinese market. Over here they were just known as the car that drove 20mph under the speed limit with the blinker on for miles. Cadillac used to be looked at as the American Rolls Royce at one time and then over time they decided to try to compete with BMW instead by alleviating all the comforts Cadillac was known for to pursue sportiness which meant that it had a sporty suspension which was too harsh for lots of people. They really screwed themselves when they decided to make cars like the Cimarron which was a Chevy Cavalier with leather interior and the Catera, which was a Opel Omega with a Cadillac crest on the grill all to try to target younger people who couldn’t afford a Cadillac unless it’s under $30,000 so they basically cheapened their image by catering to a group that other brands GM made already were targeting. Then they started naming their cars numbers and letters instead of actual names so they became forgettable. When the Cadillac Sixteen concept was unveiled, there were people begging GM to build them even if they would be over $100,000 because to many people that was what a Cadillac should have been. They instead decided to stick to badge engineering all their vehicles and not give consumers what they really wanted. It’s sad because I liked GM growing up and I’ve always wanted to see them succeed but it’s getting harder and harder when you see the shortcuts they make to sell products that are just boring. GM used to have some of the coolest concept cars like the Oldsmobile Aerotech, the Banshee TransAm, the Blazer XT-1 and a whole bunch more. Those designs were supposed to show the direction GM was planning to go in the future and now all we have is variations of the same generic forgettable SUV shapes and a Corvette.
Thanks for taking the time to write out this comment. Plenty of truth said. I laughed when you said they were all the same cars, but with different headlight designs lol
Saturn in my eyes is better than the rest of gm because they used better motors, manual transmissions was fairly common, and of all the Chevy's we have had all of our Saturn's held up to the rust belt the best. meanwhile the Chevy Malibu we used to have had holes in the floor at 70k, and my ion at 194k has barely any rust underneath it.
@ I agree. Everyone I know who still has a Saturn seems to have a car that held up fairly well. It seemed like getting 200,000 to 300,000 miles or more was pretty common unless the car was abused or highly neglected.
Darn right!! I am still driving a 2003 Vibe and it is the best and most useful car (by FAR) that I have ever owned! The only problem with it is the Toyota C59 5 speed manual transmission all of which grenade at about 100K miles due to bearing failure. I got mine to about 110K when it stated making noises it shouldn't make. Had the transmission rebuilt and the tech said it was mint inside except for the bearings. The C59 problem is not unique to the Vibe. That trans was used in many other models of Toyota including many variants of the Corolla. If not repaired, it eventually locks up and if the vehicle is at highway speed the results can be very bad. How Toyota got away without doing a recall on this trans is something I don't understand. Despite the cost to fix the trans being more than the car was worth I had it repaired because there is NOTHING on the market today that I would be the least interested in buying. All car manufacturers seem to have forgotten how to build useful and practical cars.
I regret ever selling my Grand Am. It was my first car and pushing 300k miles and the rockers and the underbody was rusting and I didn't want to put the time and money into it because that can get expensive and I'm not mechanically inclined. So I sold it for $850 and will forever regret it, especially seeing as how I used that money to buy a good shotgun with it. Now I can find another in halfway decent shape for a decent price anymore. Also, this was my first owned car.
GM's problem, was there was no real identity to the divisions they got rid of. The divisions weren't positioned distinctly. Pontiac, Olds, and Buick were competing for the same customers. Getting rid of Olds and Pontiac was a smart move The same with Saturn. Now, Buick occupies the position Saturn used to occupy, Chevy is the main seller, and Cadillac is the luxury division. Olds and Pontiac were stupid to continue.
I don’t know about that one bro. Pontiac and Buick seemed as though they attracted two completely different generations of people, ranging from younger to senior citizen. A typical Buick customer would probably drive a Pontiac, but it certainly wouldn’t be the other way around lol
It was foolish to get rid of Pontiac . The Pontiac firebird was great sports car, and the sun fire was a good small car , reliable, cheap on gas , cheap and easy to fix. Bring these two cars back
You ain't kiddin with that title. Amazing how the W body started way back in 1988 and they kept improving that along with the series 2 and 3 3.8L V6. I have one of those bullet proof 3.8 pushrod V6s in a 2005 Impala SS. Other than a few simple repairs like a water pump, a few sensors, left rear wheel bearing, motor mount, that's about it after 155,000 miles. Some bolt ons, a smaller supercharger pulley and a tune, high 13s and that engine will go 300K. The 4t65e trans even went 145,000 miles before it went. Now all you can pretty much get is a crossover or a giant 4 door, 4WD truck. Cars? A couple Caddys or a vette. The Malibu was selling pretty good and what does GM do? Cancel it for 2025 and make electric vehicles? Talk about sticking your finger in the light socket over and over.
They never tried reviving Pontiac. All those cars were rebadged cars made to look like Pontiac. Gm got greedy and it led to the failure of an iconic nameplate and they should till this day be incredibly ashamed
Oh man I’m still salty about GM killing Pontiac 😢 and after learning about how Saturn did things in its early days I’ve come to respect them retroactively.
I seriously doubt most people in the USA knew GM was even selling vehicles in China much less that they were Buicks. While in the military overseas in Vietnam, Japan, Philippines decades ago I’d never heard so much as a whisper GM was producing vehicles in China.
It was the Corporate Average Fuel Economy, people. They had to make the cars smaller and lighter. They had to save money while doing it. So they shared car bodies and platforms with each GM division. Also emissions regulations, which led to underpowered cars for many years. Still as popular as Buick, Olds, Pontiac, and Chevy were, even well into the 1980s, it's within my memory. GM had a full 50% of the car market even in 1985. The fact that so few GM cars are now around just boggles my mind. Never in a million years did I think back then that the foreign car companies would take over the car market completely. I thought they'd join us, not replace the Big 3 completely.
Honestly curious why so many commenters want Oldsmobile revived? I see nothing compelling about them as a brand, to me they were just another Buick. Boring, rebadged and slightly restyled Chevy platforms with higher prices. At least Pontiac/Saab/Saturn made an effort to stand out in some way with value or performance.
Chevrolets were a cheaper cost option for younger buyers just starting careers. Buick, Oldsmobile & Cadillac were the more luxurious models older buyers with established careers could afford. Consequently, older people could afford luxury cars so that’s who we saw driving them. Giving those cars an undeserved tag of being “old people cars”.
Great video. You covered the brands and told the stories of each. GM did not manage the brands properly. The market changed as well. There are other car companies with multiple brands functioning successfully in the market today globally. GM did not focus the brands and they may have fewer brands in 2024, they have lost a lot of global market share and shrunk to being almost regional. That is not competing. I saw Grand Prix and Bonneville from Pontiac, Oldsmobile Toronado and Ninety Eight and Holden Caprice/Statesman and Commodore. I smiled and in reference to the brands I would like to see return: Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Holden. GM does not have many cars anymore. Three at Cadillac( CT4, CT5 and CT6(China only)), Chevrolet Corvette, and Buick sells sedans in China. I can tell you when GM started making mistakes. It was the 1980's and they are still paying for them in 2024. Thank you for the video.
Now is the time to bring back Pontiac. People want cars with crazy power numbers i.e. Mustang, Charger etc. A revived Pontiac could have some high-powered sedans. If people loved the V8 Charger and 300 I’m sure Pontiac could fill in a gap in the market.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon I think something like that just might be in the works at GM right now. I watched videos about on You Tube and there are hints about this very idea. If they bring Pontiac back it can be sold at Buick GMC dealers and not only that, GM has too many holes in its line up. On top of all of that, Cadillac CT5 and Cadillac CT4 need to share their platform with something to keep the viable. Know this, I suspect Pontiac would not be a full line brand. I see Firebird and Grand Prix returning and or maybe Bonneville. They will fill the slots nicely. The Dodge Charger is 207 inches long. That is why I said Bonneville. If Pontiac did return, four cars would work: Grand Am(small)( rear drive this time), Firebird( sports car), Grand Prix( medium) and Bonneville(large). You could put a GTO on the Grand Am or Grand Prix body. Just thinking out loud. This video is one I was referring to: ruclips.net/video/67leEVrdbGo/видео.html
I know it's not going to happen but pretty much mainly Pontiac and Holden would be the ones I would mostly like to come back also in a sense Oldsmobile and Saturn as well add four adults who like the import niceties of the Saab brand I would love to see them come back.
Oldsmobile and Pontiac was their best brands. Oldsmobile was just reliable and Pontiac designs were just very good the firebird was beautiful compared to the camero
Problem with late model Saturn was they were no longer Saturn designed, they were just rebranded other GM models making customers ask the question why not buy the original. You ignored the point where early Saturn's has higher performing engines than the Pontiac or Chevy compact models of the day. Cars has polymer body panels which never rusted and kept their shiny finish better than traditional GM models. Gas millage competed with Japanese cars while GM and Chevy didn't come close. As for Pontiac it was GM's performance branch with several models running in 24 hours at Daytona and Le Mans actually being competitive with Porsche wining races in their class. They were more successful than the more prestigious Corvette model for years. The 2004 to 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix with the 3800 engine was a personal favorite of mine. It was 3800 pounds so a pretty heavy body on good suspension which cornered surprisingly well. Even with a non supercharged V6 it was peppy and for drivers who were not looking to shred rear tiers the front wheel drive offered better traction and handling than the later G8 rear wheel drive. Best part was it gave over 30 mpg highway at a 60 mph cruising speed. Something unheard of for the time. Others promised but never delivered.
GM could get rid of the exclusive dealers, then a GM dealer could sell only a couple Pontiac models - not a full line. Most cars could be sold online, the future GM dealer is mostly for warranty service
When it comes to the last years of Pontiac, the mid-size G6 got famous because Oprah Winfrey gave away over 200 of them to her audience members. I wonder if any of those audience members kept their G6 because of the Oprah connection.
I wish Pontiac and Oldsmobile would be revived the first car my mum owned was a used 1977 Firebird Esprit 400 with T Top roof and there were models from both I admired as a child Hurst Olds 442 Pontiac Catalina etc. though I can also understand why the brands were cancelled for dwindling sales and not being able to attract younger buyers who may have associated Oldsmobile with their grandparents even I'm one of those my late maternal grandmother drove 2 Oldsmobile Delta 88s in the 1970s one of which had a 7.4 L V8 under hood and the other had a 350 CID V8 under hood where as the biggest motor GM currently has is a 381 CID or 6.2 L that's used in the Corvette and the Cadillac CT5 V Blackwing though the Blackwing has 173 more horsepower from factory than the Corvette
Well someone’s a Buick fan…. Us “ignorant” guys from the 60’s were pretty well knowledgeable on who could mop up who. In the 70’s we were busy on little things like Vietnam, Navy Aviation & overseas travel. My Dad had a 69 GS 455 Skylark but wasn’t a real road scorcher. One guy I knew had a plain Jane Olds sedan that could smoke the tires off the rims, that one could stomp just about anything. The big boys were Chevy, Pontiac, Mopar, Ford and occasionally Olds. Check drags & stock car wins.
In the hierarchy of GM, Cadillac holds the #1 spot. Followed by Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac and finally Chevrolet (Saturn being excluded because of its short life span). I think the main reason Buick was kept while the other mid-range makes were dropped is because Buick is held in such high esteem in China, where its considered more prestigious to own than other marks such as Cadillac, Mercedes Benz, BMW and other high-end cars. On an American standpoint you would think Oldsmobile or Pontiac would have been the better choice to keep and improve on as a mid-range choice between Cadillac and Chevrolet. This considering all Buick offers the American public today are a series of SUV's. This tells me its all about the Benjamin's, which (I guess) is no fault of GM's but a huge disappointment to American buyers.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Yes, you’re correct. It’s all about the Benjamins. And it’s odd how Buick in the Chinese market is seen as more prestigious than German luxury brands.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon I read awhile back that the emperor of China was gifted one back in the 1930's by the American ambassador, and it took off from there. It's now the car most people aspire to own. (go figure, huh?)
The problem with Pontiac is that chevy exists as the budget GM brand. GMC needs to become more like jeep and just bee the truck and suv brand with more off-roaders. Cadillac is doing well and buick just doesn’t make any sense.
I don't understand why Buick is even still around. They need to get rid of it as well and just focus on Chevy and GMC, save money that way. It seems though nobody wants sedans much anymore, let alone American with the imports dominating with the price and quality and gas mileage. Everyone just wants SUV's. I have my old Jeep Liberty and I'd love to own a nice sedan, preferably an old Pontiac Grand or G line.
I would like to see Pontiac come back, revitalize the Fierro, the Grand Prix, and the solstice something to compete with the Miata and yes, even the Corvette, which I believe the Fierro had a potential of out performing the Corvette especially the 1988 last version of the fear of was amazingbut unfortunately GM has a habit of perfecting a vehicle and then taking it off the market. Why won’t these companies stick to something that works? Perfect it and continue with its perfection to out perform the imports.
That is an idea simple and so elusive in the American car industry they affect an engine they affect a transmission and then they discontinue it. What is the common sense reasoning behind what they do I don’t never understood it. I’m 60 years old and the American car industry never ceasesto disappoint me.
Pontiac created its own death by building some really ugly, plastic-cladded cars before their demise. To boot, you couldn’t get anything but a charcoal gray interior, which is the LAST thing you want in Texas. The death knell was of course the horrible Aztek, which got the reaction Edsel got when it was unveiled: an audible, uncomfortable gasp. I really liked Pontiac’s version of the Cobalt (the G whatever.. another mistake, killing model names), but by that time when I was looking, it was too late. As far as “saving” Buick.. I saw the vehicle they call a “Buick Envista” the other day, and it broke my heart. It’s more Kia and Hyundai than Hyundai itself. Putting the Buick Tri-shield (if you want to call it that) on it is a sacrilege.
Pontiac- dedicated affordable fun / performance vehicles. Easy to purchase, engaging to drive, healthy parts market. With strong market research I think GM could make this work better than Scion ever could. It could be so simple…think of the decades worth of powerful engines, dedicated performance vehicle chassis’, and suspension systems GM could use / augment to price cut the market and put fun back in the hands of the consumer on a budget. Saturn- Efficient vehicles with affordable to moderate pricing. Re introducing the brand as no longer being “dent resistant” or plastic but partial EVs, EVs, and maybe even a prelude to an all electric near luxury brand for GM. I feel that could meet consumer demand without compromising their main / core brands.
I would resurrect Oldsmobile as it should never have been cancelled in the first place. I would have cancelled Buick, not Oldsmobile! All Buick models have been made in China for the last 30 years! Oldsmobile cars were ALL made in U. S. factories. The decision to keep Buick and cancel Oldsmibile was because the former was cheaper to build, sold for more money, and reaped a greater profit for GM. So typical! I bought my father a 1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Special Edition station wagon in September 1993. It was completely optioned out with EVERY option available for 1994. My father was NEVER one to even wash a car, let alone have required maintenance performed. Since I was 14, I did all the maintenance on the family cars. My parents ALWAYS bought brand new cars since they were married. It was not uncommon for engines and transmissions of highly rated reliable/best buy cars to fail at 26,000 miles because of the way my father drove and maintained them. The 1994 Oldsmobile that I referred to lasted 9 years and was still in excellent condition (I was doing ALL the maintenance) when I decided that at 248,000+ miles it was time for a new car.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon it absolutely would be terrific. The Grand Prix GTP with the 3800 Series II V6 was the best engine since the EFI 3.1 V6 version. The Saturn Sky IMO had crisp, clean lines.
I just hate that the G8 GXP’s & SS’s are soooo out of reach price wise 😂, you could literally buy a mustang that makes 5 horses over a GXP/SS for half the cost 🤦♂️ I understand they are somewhat rare but the gatekeeping prices gotta stop!
I hate how Pontiac though only had sedans and coupes that were performance and luxury mixed with fuel economy and their other vehicles flopped. The imports that were economical were ugly though. I also hate how GM and a lot of other brands make the same vehicle and put a different name on it.
I got rid of my Pontiac with 263K on the clock, rust up to the door handles, and a haunted transmission. 15 years old. I would have gladly bought another one, had Pontiac still been there. Saturn was boring and about as exciting as a vanilla cone. Oldsmobile was OLD. Hummer were gas guzzling land barges. Saab were about as reliable as a Fiat.
Getting rid of Pontiac was the dumbest move ever, and showed a shocking lack of gratitude to them for correcting all (or at least most) of Chevy's engineering mistakes for 85 years.
Pontiac: Too bad they weren’t able to make a modern Firebird like Chevy got to with the “Bumblebee” Camaro. Lol. And I’m always curious how a modern Pontiac would look. Saab: Honestly disappointed such a quirky brand was diluted by mismanagement. Always loved the interiors, especially with the green lights, and every Saab I’ve gotten to drive I liked. Saturn: So much potential in the 90’s. I remember seeing a lot of them. But, GM seems to be unable to juggle so many brands and maintain each identity. Oldsmobile: I’ve driven a few and I even really like a few. But, I think they needed to be more unique maybe? The fact that Buick and Cadillac also existed while Chevy was there too… too much internal competition, not to mention the competitor’s brands. Hard sell. Hummer: Meh… not my kind of vehicle, but to each their own.
GM is importing some of their vehicles from China and South Korea.The Buick Envision is made in China. The Chevrolet Trax, Buick Encore GX and Buick Envista are made in South Korea.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon Yeah, especially since American and Canadian taxpayers bailed out GM when they were going bankrupt. So what does GM do? Builds new plants in Mexico. Next time GM runs into trouble they can ask Mexico, South Korea and China to bail them out.
I'm tired of stupid trucks. The body on frame Caprice with an iron block V6 or V8 engine would sell incredibly well. Comfortable, reliable, easy to service and safe, every police department and taxi company would buy them. My father was an autobody repairman and he claimed that this platform was the safest car on the road. It was the only car he would let us drive.
Agreed! Ending Pontiac was a humongous mistake. I miss my Grand am and Grand Prix. I had a 99 Saturn SL1 also got it up to 190k miles before I sold it to coworker still running just needed an alternator. Thank Obama for the bail out.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon Berry reliable. Most reliable car I have ever owned. I think throughout the years I had it the only thing done to it was Tires, brakes and that flex exhaust manifold part.
GM should bring back Pontiac to compete with Toyota and Honda. Pontiacs basically were rebadged Chevys, but they were much more stylish. Chevy just gives off a “basic” image that kinda turns me off. Pontiacs really were exciting looking. I had a Grand Am GT coupe and loved it. The car was practical, but it looked really cool, and was stylish. The G6 that replaced the Grand Am was so boring looking, and basically alienated the brand. The G8 was a great vehicle, but imo it was ugly. I know Consumer Reports shredded Pontiac on a regular basis for the plastic body molding (somehow they give Subaru a pass.. bias much), but it did add a cool racy look.
You’re right. I liked the design of the Grand Am GT more than the G6. But at least the G6 was available in a variety of models i.e. coupe, sedan, convertible so that was a good thing.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon agreed. One of my buddies had a G6 convertible in college, and it was a pretty cool car. The G6 sedan’s body style was such a snore though.
I don’t care what Buick is or does on the other side of the globe if it were up to me Buick would be in the history books I would strayically reintroduce Pontiac over a 36 month period starting with a LeMans then a GTO then a FireHawk then a Catalina all Coupes & 4 doors NO SUVs or CUVs & Never any MINI vans convertible & T tops would be I’m Emediately available as would 10 spd automatics & 8&10 spd manuals as a no cost option Cloth or Leather no cost or penalty to switch over when ordering and the engine would be a Boxer 4 cylinder direct injection Supercharged 600 HP Motor or optional Limited production 800 HP supercharged V 8 all with a 10 year ONE MILLION MILE ZERO 0000000000000000 NO DEDUCTABLE and for the first year of production to help get the brand reestablisshed no New Production Model will exceed a MSRP $$ of 63,000 Dollars Yes it is very Possible we have the technology we have the Will & ability we have the ingenuity we have the labor force look back at all this great nation has accomplished and what this automotive industry has accomplished & endured over the last Century and there was always naysayers in the corporate boardrooms and in the factories and they said things like ABS & traction control & Airbags & Airsuspention & computer controlled engines & transmissions were not possible & lighter composite materials and the list goes on & on & on there was people that said we would never fly or journey into space or land on the Moon or tour the oceans floor or view detailed images within the human body
I like your plan for reintroducing the Pontiac brand 😉
A Pontiac with no SUVs or CUVs sounds great.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon thank you more horse power to you with the Arrowhead and Rocket and Bow tie sorry Tri Shield R.I.P.
@@georgewilson1184 Getting rid of Buick makes no sense. Pontiac cannot appeal to upscale buyers. Without Buick, GM would make the same mistake with Cadillac that Ford made by downgrading Lincoln to where Mercury was. I never said that Pontiac shouldn't be brought back. I wanted Pontiac to be kept. It's GMC that should have been dropped. Buick is necessary because not everyone can afford a Cadillac.
I was disgusted and heartbroken when the Pontiac brand was dropped after abysmal sales of the most disgusting 🫣 car ever badged as a Pontiac, the Aztec. It was just plain ugly and had nothing to do with what Pontiac had become, a performance oriented brand. I have owned two Grand-am's with the 3.1 V-6. When I was able to upgrade, I bought my first Firebird Trans-Am in 1998 V-8. Another in 2000 V-8 with the six speed manual. The last one was a jet black 2002 Trans-Am with the WS-6 performance package and the V-8. It presently has 22,000 original miles. It has the Procharger super charger, twin air to air, cam, hooker headers, cat back exhaust running 3" pipe into flo-pro's. On a Mustang Dino, it made 527 HP to the rear wheels and 475 lbs of torque. It runs very low 12's in the 1/4. It's my Sunday driver and is in pristine condition. I drive my 1998 as a daily driver, and it also is in pristine condition. If GMC wanted to sell more cars, they should bring back the Pontiac brand. Build some retro upgrade cars like the GTO concept car shown a few months back with a 650 HP LS-7. I would place an order for one RIGHT NOW...TAKE MY MONEY 💰 🤑. Stop building these horrible firetrap electric cars that only appeals to an extremely small section of the population. Build cars Americans want to buy.
That's why you're sitting at home typing out foolishness on a computer!
If I have a choice I like to see Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Saab and Holden coming back again.
Don't forget Pontiac's Canadian Sub-brands like Acadian and Beaumont as well.
Pontiac without a doubt.
Me too!
Just Pontiac, Holden, and Saturn.
@CJColvin my aunt in 🇨🇦 Canada had an Acadian. First she had a yellow one than traded it in on a newer Green one. I always thought they were nice little cars. This was late 60's.
This is the natural result of accountants running car companies instead "Car Guys."
Excellent point.
@@MotorMaster_StunticonOh how that phrase comes back to HAUNT ME!!!!!Cuz both myself and my family bought alot of those old GM cars!!!!.
SO TRUE!
Pontiac.. for the fun stuff.
Saturn.. for the value.
Nice video. Thanks!
Yep, Pontiac was a fun brand. Thanks for watching!
There were some Saturns at the very end of its run that were among the best looking cars sold in The U.S. I think some were re-badged versions of other brands, but they were still technically Saturns.
Great video. Your pacing and voice is clear and is pleasant to listen to. Own an ‘09 G6. Paid $1700 (2500 CAD) for it. Rides along like a dream.
I'd like to see Oldsmobile and Pontiac come back so we have more choices.
Definitely. A Pontiac revival would be cool.
@Lovemonkey2005 If Oldsmobile came back, I`d say resurrect the old Ninety-Eight series.
@@Lovemonkey2005 Oldsmobile can't come back because Buick owns that near-luxury market. That's why it went away in the first place.
@johnnymason2460 Buick started going downhill when they got rid of the Riviera the Park ave and the Lesabre!!!!.
@@mikeweizer3149 Buick went downhill when they stopped selling cars. Period! Same problem that Lincoln has as well.
Pontiac was always GM’s performance division & I was surprised they axed it & kept Buick, Oldsmobile. As teenagers in the 60’s we always thought of Buick & Oldsmobile as “old guy cars”.
I bought a used 67 GTO in 72 when I got back from Vietnam. It had its whole drivetrain replaced & ran like it was new. Fast car, 400 cid 4 barrel carb & 4 spd manual. Still kicking myself for trading it off. Worth a helluva lot more today.
Thanks for commenting. Yep unfortunately Buick and Oldsmobile had that stereotype of being an old guy’s car. I guess that’s why they tried to bring out cars like the Aurora to attract younger buyers.
Buick had higher worldwide sales. Makes no sense to throw away money. So buh-bye Poncho.
Lots of guys in the 60s were ignorant of where the real performance was. Their uncles had GTOs and they became "fast" cars to kids. A Stage 1 or 2 GS455 would beat anything on the showroom floor in 1970 unless you were at a Yenko dealership or something like Baldwin Motion. The Stage 2 would mop up almost anything at all.
GM killed off Oldsmobile 6 years before Pontiac.
They kept Buick because it was there top seller in china
I had a Pontiac Grand Prix with the v6 in the 80s great car until totaled
None of them need to come back. Because who the hell wants a rebadged Equinox or Traverse with a Pontiac or Olds badge?
Such a shame everything has to be an SUV in our car market.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon I agree. I think a pickup (and I mean an old-school one with a 6 1/2-8 foot bed) is FAR MORE useful, by comparison!
@@mr.slim6188 That's a fair take
5:47 Who didn't like Pontiac Trans-Am?
Those who knew the Formula was always faster than the T/A?
I did not, with all respect for those who did. Give me a Jim Rockford Firebird Esprit from “The Rockford Files” any day of the week.. I HATED the TransAm.. to me, it SCREAMED “REDNECK” because of “Smokey and the Bandit”.
@@danielthoman7324 i like the Pontiac Trans Am. Could be a twin of the Chevrolet Camaro...
A dude named Steve I know. He didn't.
GM kills everything it gets its hands on. There's literally nothing truly interesting that they make anymore
Unfortunately this is true, haha.
At least we still got the C8 and the CT4/5.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon As far as I`m concerned, the last REAL Cadillac was the 1996 Fleetwood!
What a shame, all the car brands are now gone GM ruined everyone of them.
And people lost there jobs because of general motors killing off all those car brands
Always blame the company, it’s easy, why don’t you blame the a-oles who bought Camrys and Accords?
😂
Yeah let's patronize the people who tried to destroy us in WW2.
@@taniabanes4707Maybe people bought those because they're more reliable than anything that GM had to offer.
I drove an oldsmobile for 9 years and my mom drove one for a long time too... we won't forget how nice they were. Those 90s GM cars are so nice and simple and last forever
Agreed. Thanks for watching.
I don't understand why GMC still exists. Pretty much every single one of their vehicles has an identical Chevy equivalent (apart from the Typhoon/Syclone). At least Pontiac had its own identity. As for Holden, in 2020 GM decided to leave all right-hand-drive markets entirely, so they sold off Opel/Vauxhall to PSA (now Stellantis) and cancelled Holden because Aussie car manufacturing had already died out. (But now they're bringing Cadillac back to Oz and NZ. 🤦♂️)
I have said for a long time that GMC is no longer necessary. Chevrolet can sell luxury trucks now and actually do. I would rather have an Escalade than a GMC Denali.
Because gmc is still popular and still gives them sales so why cut the nostalgia from people who love gmcs and only sell chevys there are gmc fans and chevy fans like me would be disappointed and if they remove gmc's division it would cause sale drops
@cheepda Oh, please! They would have gotten over it. GM truck people are still truck people. They would have been just fine. Ford didn't create an upscale truck brand. Why should GM have one when no one else does?
@johnnymason2460 because they're GM
@@SomethingAboutCars GMC only exists bc Pontiac dealerships wanted to sell trucks lmfaooooo. You're right they shouldn't exist
I miss Oldsmobile. Had a 98 Regency and it was a fantastic car.
Oldsmobile was great.
Pontiac and oldsmobile would be my choice. My mother owned three Pontiac's over the years. My grandparents owned 2 oldsmobile's. I own two buick sedans.
Cool. Which Buick sedans do you own? Such a shame they no longer produce Buick sedans for the American market.
GM ruined Saturn. They were quality vehicles on par with Honda and Toyota when they were on their one. When GM bought them and just rebranded their already poor quality cars Saturns went down fast. I hope the government does bail GM out again. They need to just fold as a corporation.
I agree ☝️
But GM never "bought" Saturn.
GM founded Saturn.
GM bought Saturn? Boy, are you WRONG there. Go back and do your research.
EWTF are you talking about? GM created Saturn. It did so in an effort to learn how to make small cars as reliable and inexpensive as Honda, Toyota and Nissan. That is what the press release at the time said. I know this idiots video said otherwise, but he is wrong about Saturn and about 50% of everything he says in this video.
Saturn was never "on par" with Honda or Toyota as far as quality or resale value.
Pontiac would fit in, in today's power obsessed car. I can see the Grand Prix competing with the Charger if they adopted a RWD platform. They could have made the Firebird way more competitive with the Mustang and Challenger. At some point we'd probably have a varient of the LS that would be pushing the same numbers as the hellcats and demons from the factory. But GM being GM, they wouldnt have made them awesome cars anyway because itd take sales from the Camaro and Corvette. Pontiac had so much potential. Even the Aztek couldve been successful today, after a major redesign for tge second generation. All modern crossovers have that wierd split headlight look the Aztek pioneered in the early 00's.
Exactly. A modern Grand Prix would be RWD and the higher models could’ve been a competent Hellcat competitor. A modern GTO/Firebird could’ve taken the fight to the Mustang/Challenger. A modern Pontiac brand could’ve been all about performance figures. Now that’s excitement.
I kinda agree, though there should have NEVER BEEN a Grand Prix sedan. That’s when I knew hell had frozen over for good.
My quick takes:
Pontiac...Too many fails before finally gaining some footing, and the Economic Crisis killed them.
Saturn: Alot of R&D was spent making them different, and ticked off other Divisions. Eventually Saturn's were just clones of other GMs and rebadged Opels.
Oldsmobile. Buyers were aging out and revival efforts didn't work.plus Olds and Buick seemed redundant
SAAB: GM never made money with them
OPEL: See Saab
Hummer: Became the poster child for thirsty SUVs. Gas prices and preferences to more fuel efficient crossovers helped kill them.
Wonderful vid Rob!
GM never made money directly from Opel, but it used its platforms and industrial developments to generate profits through Chevrolet in Brazil, Mexico, and other brands like Holden, etc. In other words, it used Opel's resources to develop products for Latin America and emerging markets like China and South Africa and even usa (via saturn) but did not reinvest the earnings in creating new products.
This strategy ultimately destroyed Opel, as the revenue generated was used in other GM markets but was not reinvested directly in Opel itself.
@Carl_Z You are quite correct actually! There was also many Opel bits and platform designs that found their way into U.S. models over the years. I guess I was referring more to rebadges and original Opels brought here. Shame Opel was kind of wrung out like a sponge.
Thanks for sharing your perspective and thanks for listening to me chime in.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon Oh you know I always do!
I wish they would bring back Pontiac. My mom had a Pontiac 6000 and Sunbird. My brother had 2 Grand Am GTs. I had a Sunbird, Bonneville, Grand Prix, and Grand Am GT. I loved that car.
What year was your Grand Prix? That’s one of my favorite cars.
I miss Pontiac. I still have my 2002 Firebird Formula I bought brand new, and I also have a 1999 Trans Am that I take to car shows.
That’s awesome. The 99 Trans Am is a great looking pony car.
Good post. To my thinking, when the beauty of a car's aesthetics disappears, so does the affection.
Yeah perhaps so. Thanks for watching.
Would really love to see Pontiac make a comeback. The early-mid 2000s performance lineup (GXP Bonneville/Grand Prix, GTO, TransAm & G8 GXP) was absolutely unbeatable. Each car brought their own flair and charm to the table and they all had the performance to back it up.
Same here
I enjoyed the video!
The pair of divisions that I would revive would be Pontiac and Holden.
With Saturn I think GM should have instead of badging opel models as Saturns, I think Saturn should have been the corporate template for GM's compact car program. Some uniqueness would be lost in this, but they could have kept the plastic door panels as a Saturn exclusive and kept their dealership model for those who wanted it that way. The opel models did not work out at all.
I think part of the problem that Pontiac had was they wouldn't restrict Chevy. One of the biggest logical fallacies of General motors is this idea that the appliance division of the company is the division that gets the fastest coolest car and nothing may top it. This displays a severe lack of vision that the management has over this considering that Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, and other exotic sports car and supercar divisions have varying levels of performance and numerous models to pick from. They could have kept the Corvette the Corvette being a front engine pushrod V8 car for the traditional sports car for a price point and not worry about petty things like sharing a steering wheel and other bits and pieces with cheaper models. Then with Pontiac they could have made a mid engine supercar with a more exotic powertrain and given the Pontiac a bigger budget for the interior as well with the goal of this model call it the banshee or the fire hawk with the intention of competing more directly to the Ferraris and Lamborghinis of the world. Doing this would have added much more cache to the division as a whole. From here they needed to make the ordinary models from Pontiac stand out not only in the marketplace but within General motors themselves making models like the Grand Prix GXP exclusive to Pontiac and not offer a Chevy of equivalent. There should have been exclusive versions of the firebird offered in every single year of its production not just a one-off SLP firehawk every now and then to solidify it as the superior pony car. The Chevy would need to be powerful enough to beat the mustang which throughout the '90s was not a difficult task. They also needed to make more performance focused versions of the Sunfire / sunbird to offer a competitor to the likes of the eclipse and the lancer. They just needed to be America's performance division and not just rely on a couple models to carry the weight just to have Chevy undercut that move. Also whenever they decided to get into the SUV / crossover market, styling was only half of the mistake that came out of the Aztek. The other major mistake with the Aztek was there was nothing at all exciting about it from a performance standpoint. With BMW, Mercedes, and other divisions known for performance getting into the market, that was the direction Pontiac should have aimed for. They needed to have a SUV that was focused on on road performance Not a pop-up tent in the back.
Great comment and thanks for taking the time to type all of this. Lots of logic here. GM should hire you to run things.
And the pop up tent had me laughing!
I agree; I've never understood why GM is so protective of the Corvette to the point of paranoia. That's why they shot down the Buick Reatta and Pontiac Fiero, even though those cars weren't even in the same universe as the Vette.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon thank you! I appreciate all the time that you put into putting together your videos and sharing your perspective.
@@SomethingAboutCars My theory is the dealer's might be part of the problem. I know that some big mistakes such as the Cadillac cimarron was rushed to market due to pressure from the dealers. This is where I think GM needed to work out deals with the dealers that they could have more than one franchise but that certain models or trims were going to be superior in the superior divisions. Otherwise it undermines the whole idea of having different divisions.
I miss my Oldsmobile 98 Regency Elite.
The Saturn vehicles were supposed to be the best parts of GM. Unfortunately, later on they were found to have engine fires which was recalled when wiring harnesses were found faulty. Later on, they just threw junk together so they could fold out the division.
Thanks for chiming in. Yeah it’s too bad what happened with the Saturn brand.
I never got over the fact that GM let Oldsmobile die on the vine. During the 1980’s they had the Cutlass as GM’s best seller. Then it seems as they just gave up.
Especially the Cutlass Ciera. From 1982 to 1996 that was like their top selling model. But on the flip side I know that particular car was ancient and the brand had to progress with the time.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon the 78-87 Cutlass supreme also could be seen everywhere. They were so plentiful that there are still a good number of them in the roads . I think they were most popular G body cars some years
Agreed
I stand by my assertion that the Kappa platform as an LNF application did not suffer from engine troubles by design. I owned one new and I one one now. Both very reliable in my experience, over 100K miles between the two by now. The water pumps had a bad batch of parts which accelerated failure, and the pump shaft, which is lubricated by the coolant, would turn against dried seals since the cars were used infrequently by most owners. My first one had one issue in 55K miles of ownership over four years, and it was a door latch striker that squeaked. Sole issue. My second one I have had since 2019 and the w/p did go bad in 2021. The car had 22K miles when I bought it. The seal dried out and around 60K miles it started to weep. 13 years after it was assembled. 77K miles now. It is a used car and has had the following additional issues: bad turn signal, 60 bucks and 1 hour to replace. bad door handle, 50 bucks and two hours to replace. Bad crank sensor, 50 bucks and 20 minutes to replace, while I was standing up. Used cars have some problems here and there. GM would have charged me lots of money to service those three additional failures, but since I spent 600 bucks on the M car manuals from GM, I saved three times that in repair costs on items that were faster to fix myself than to drive to and from the GM service center.
That’s great. Thanks for sharing that with us. I guess it was better to spend the 600 bucks rather than pay GM an arm and a leg!
Here’s how it should happen:
Pontiac: performance Chevy
Oldsmobile: budget Cadillac
Buick: luxury Chevy
Great point. I just think Oldsmobile and Buick would conflict with each other.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon Hardly anyone in the U.S. under the age of 50 drives a Buick, Oldsmobile wouldn’t stand a chance.
They brought back the trans am…and it’s a beast. It’s just a camero, but it checks all the Easter egg boxes
The aztek is definitely one they should never have gotten rid of!! My absolute favorite car and one of the ones i kept on the road for the longest time, took it camping for years and its jever failed me.. damn, i miss that car sooo much.😊
Glad to hear you had a good experience with it!
Pontiac being destroyed hurts my soul … Oldsmobile hits hard too though
Agreed. And sorry for the crossover slander 😉
can anyone tell me why 00's hummers have jeep grille?
I guess they tried to duplicate the look.
Pontiac should have never ever been eliminated. It had a performance slot. Buick is nothing now.
Yeah, Buick is lost.
My wife had a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix which was a superb vehicle. It drove great, rode comfortable, and decent gas mileage.
And I bet it was pretty reliable too with the 3800 engine.
@@MotorMaster_StunticonYes, those engines are the small block 350 of the 6 cylinder engines.
Yep
I had a 2001 Olds Alero, great car. We bought alot of Pontiacs over the decades and I still see alot of the last gen Pontiac Grand Prix's on the road.
Same here. Seems as though the Grand Prix is reliable with the 3800.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon I'd vouch for that. I have 2004 Impala SS with 3800 SC V6. Used as a daily driver and still going strong.
The Saturn Sky, Vue Redline & Pontiac Sky, G8, Trans-Am for sure! Saab was never a huge success in the USA and Oldsmobile was on life support since 1989.
The Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice for sure!
They need to bring back the Pontiac Firebird Trans-Am.
That would be amazing to have a new Trans-Am.
My mom's manual shift 1993 SC2 went to 600k without even having to get new gaskets. It did need new everything else. It was a fantastic little car. So I gave it everything it needed at about 250k after the Saturn dealer absolutely infuriated me refusing to sell me the only ion redline they had. I left there telling them they were going to bankruptcy. I wish I was wrong honestly 😊
It went to 600k?! Now that’s what I call reliable!
I love saturns. have had 2 so far, both Ions. They are unique, they are capable of surviving the salt belt, and they both use the 2.2 ecotec which I love, AND they offered them in 5 speed manual.
GM went bankrupt is what happened to Pontiac. It was announced in 2009 to shutdown Pontiac in 2010.
Thanks for watching.
Nane any Oldsmobile model and I have either owned one or driven one!!!! All great cars!!!!! GM didn't see a good thing when it saw it!!!!!!!
That’s great. Did you own a Toronado or an Alero?
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon I got to drive them, but I never owned one. I have owned 88s, 98s, Cutlasses, 442s and now an Aurora.
Awesome bro. Which gen is your Aurora?
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon 2001 4.0
One thing I’ve always hated about GM is the fact that all their brands have the same chassis that are just brand engineered for each division.
Saturn originally was supposed to be its own brand and wasn’t supposed to share chassis with any other brand. Their demise started when Saturn just became rebadged models of other GM brands. There’s really no reason to buy them other than if you prefer a certain headlight shape or a slightly different taillight style.
Hummer H2 and H3’s were basically Suburbans and Trailblazers with body kits, the Cobalt, The Ion and the G5 we’re basically the same car, every current SUV they make is just a few chassis with a few different appearances to make them look like a certain brand, and brands like Buick only really exist because they sold extremely well in the Chinese market. Over here they were just known as the car that drove 20mph under the speed limit with the blinker on for miles.
Cadillac used to be looked at as the American Rolls Royce at one time and then over time they decided to try to compete with BMW instead by alleviating all the comforts Cadillac was known for to pursue sportiness which meant that it had a sporty suspension which was too harsh for lots of people. They really screwed themselves when they decided to make cars like the Cimarron which was a Chevy Cavalier with leather interior and the Catera, which was a Opel Omega with a Cadillac crest on the grill all to try to target younger people who couldn’t afford a Cadillac unless it’s under $30,000 so they basically cheapened their image by catering to a group that other brands GM made already were targeting. Then they started naming their cars numbers and letters instead of actual names so they became forgettable. When the Cadillac Sixteen concept was unveiled, there were people begging GM to build them even if they would be over $100,000 because to many people that was what a Cadillac should have been. They instead decided to stick to badge engineering all their vehicles and not give consumers what they really wanted.
It’s sad because I liked GM growing up and I’ve always wanted to see them succeed but it’s getting harder and harder when you see the shortcuts they make to sell products that are just boring.
GM used to have some of the coolest concept cars like the Oldsmobile Aerotech, the Banshee TransAm, the Blazer XT-1 and a whole bunch more. Those designs were supposed to show the direction GM was planning to go in the future and now all we have is variations of the same generic forgettable SUV shapes and a Corvette.
Thanks for taking the time to write out this comment. Plenty of truth said.
I laughed when you said they were all the same cars, but with different headlight designs lol
Saturn in my eyes is better than the rest of gm because they used better motors, manual transmissions was fairly common, and of all the Chevy's we have had all of our Saturn's held up to the rust belt the best. meanwhile the Chevy Malibu we used to have had holes in the floor at 70k, and my ion at 194k has barely any rust underneath it.
@ I agree. Everyone I know who still has a Saturn seems to have a car that held up fairly well. It seemed like getting 200,000 to 300,000 miles or more was pretty common unless the car was abused or highly neglected.
Don't forget the Pontiac Vibe. Essentally a Toyota Corolla Wagon, an updated version would sell well today
Yep yep
Darn right!! I am still driving a 2003 Vibe and it is the best and most useful car (by FAR) that I have ever owned! The only problem with it is the Toyota C59 5 speed manual transmission all of which grenade at about 100K miles due to bearing failure. I got mine to about 110K when it stated making noises it shouldn't make. Had the transmission rebuilt and the tech said it was mint inside except for the bearings. The C59 problem is not unique to the Vibe. That trans was used in many other models of Toyota including many variants of the Corolla. If not repaired, it eventually locks up and if the vehicle is at highway speed the results can be very bad. How Toyota got away without doing a recall on this trans is something I don't understand. Despite the cost to fix the trans being more than the car was worth I had it repaired because there is NOTHING on the market today that I would be the least interested in buying. All car manufacturers seem to have forgotten how to build useful and practical cars.
@Vincent_Sullivan That's why I got the automatic. Works perfectly and still has the original fluid
I regret ever selling my Grand Am. It was my first car and pushing 300k miles and the rockers and the underbody was rusting and I didn't want to put the time and money into it because that can get expensive and I'm not mechanically inclined. So I sold it for $850 and will forever regret it, especially seeing as how I used that money to buy a good shotgun with it. Now I can find another in halfway decent shape for a decent price anymore. Also, this was my first owned car.
300k is great. Very reliable.
GM's problem, was there was no real identity to the divisions they got rid of.
The divisions weren't positioned distinctly. Pontiac, Olds, and Buick were competing for the same customers.
Getting rid of Olds and Pontiac was a smart move
The same with Saturn.
Now, Buick occupies the position Saturn used to occupy, Chevy is the main seller, and Cadillac is the luxury division. Olds and Pontiac were stupid to continue.
I don’t know about that one bro. Pontiac and Buick seemed as though they attracted two completely different generations of people, ranging from younger to senior citizen. A typical Buick customer would probably drive a Pontiac, but it certainly wouldn’t be the other way around lol
It was foolish to get rid of Pontiac . The Pontiac firebird was great sports car, and the sun fire was a good small car , reliable, cheap on gas , cheap and easy to fix. Bring these two cars back
Those were 2 of 3 of my favorites. The Firebird and Sunfire. The Grand Prix is #3.
🔥🔥🔥 PONTIAC!!! this generation needs fun cars. And we're tired of challengers camaros and mustangs. Bring back the gto the firebird & transams
You do know that Firebird is basically a rebadge Camaro.
Exactly. More pony cars are always welcomed.
The Monaro Front Wheel Drive , have another look at it. It was a 2door successful version of the then Holden Commodore .
Yep.
Bring back the Excitement division, Pontiac. I currently drive an Aztek that I named Heisenberg.
I did a video on the Aztek.
You ain't kiddin with that title. Amazing how the W body started way back in 1988 and they kept improving that along with the series 2 and 3 3.8L V6. I have one of those bullet proof 3.8 pushrod V6s in a 2005 Impala SS. Other than a few simple repairs like a water pump, a few sensors, left rear wheel bearing, motor mount, that's about it after 155,000 miles. Some bolt ons, a smaller supercharger pulley and a tune, high 13s and that engine will go 300K. The 4t65e trans even went 145,000 miles before it went. Now all you can pretty much get is a crossover or a giant 4 door, 4WD truck. Cars? A couple Caddys or a vette. The Malibu was selling pretty good and what does GM do? Cancel it for 2025 and make electric vehicles? Talk about sticking your finger in the light socket over and over.
Full support.
Yep, you’re right. Especially with the Malibu. I think it outsold every other Chevy with the exception of the Equinox and Silverado.
They never tried reviving Pontiac. All those cars were rebadged cars made to look like Pontiac. Gm got greedy and it led to the failure of an iconic nameplate and they should till this day be incredibly ashamed
Oh man I’m still salty about GM killing Pontiac 😢 and after learning about how Saturn did things in its early days I’ve come to respect them retroactively.
I’m glad you learned something here.
Thanks for tuning in.
I seriously doubt most people in the USA knew GM was even selling vehicles in China much less that they were Buicks. While in the military overseas in Vietnam, Japan, Philippines decades ago I’d never heard so much as a whisper GM was producing vehicles in China.
I think you’re right.
Holden Commodores from VC to VL were my favourites
Yeah the Commodore was no joke.
It was the Corporate Average Fuel Economy, people. They had to make the cars smaller and lighter. They had to save money while doing it. So they shared car bodies and platforms with each GM division. Also emissions regulations, which led to underpowered cars for many years. Still as popular as Buick, Olds, Pontiac, and Chevy were, even well into the 1980s, it's within my memory. GM had a full 50% of the car market even in 1985. The fact that so few GM cars are now around just boggles my mind. Never in a million years did I think back then that the foreign car companies would take over the car market completely. I thought they'd join us, not replace the Big 3 completely.
Same. Back then, I didn’t think foreign car brands would take over the market either. Great point.
First-gen Aurora was basically a rebadged Gen-8 Riviera with four doors...
Yep, you’re right about that. I made a video on that too.
Honestly curious why so many commenters want Oldsmobile revived? I see nothing compelling about them as a brand, to me they were just another Buick. Boring, rebadged and slightly restyled Chevy platforms with higher prices. At least Pontiac/Saab/Saturn made an effort to stand out in some way with value or performance.
Because of nostalgia. They had some cool cars like the Toronado or the 1995 Aurora.
The later Oldsmobiles were much sportier than the Buicks.
I wish Pontiac would make a comeback but without GM control.
I would like to see Oldsmobile Pontiac and Saturn all make come backs
That would be amazing. More cars/sedans are always welcomed.
Chevrolets were a cheaper cost option for younger buyers just starting careers. Buick, Oldsmobile & Cadillac were the more luxurious models older buyers with established careers could afford. Consequently, older people could afford luxury cars so that’s who we saw driving them. Giving those cars an undeserved tag of being “old people cars”.
That last paragraph is true!
i would love to see Olsmobile make a come back or Pontiac
Both would be great to have back.
Great video. You covered the brands and told the stories of each. GM did not manage the brands properly. The market changed as well. There are other car companies with multiple brands functioning successfully in the market today globally. GM did not focus the brands and they may have fewer brands in 2024, they have lost a lot of global market share and shrunk to being almost regional. That is not competing. I saw Grand Prix and Bonneville from Pontiac, Oldsmobile Toronado and Ninety Eight and Holden Caprice/Statesman and Commodore. I smiled and in reference to the brands I would like to see return: Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Holden. GM does not have many cars anymore. Three at Cadillac( CT4, CT5 and CT6(China only)), Chevrolet Corvette, and Buick sells sedans in China. I can tell you when GM started making mistakes. It was the 1980's and they are still paying for them in 2024. Thank you for the video.
Now is the time to bring back Pontiac. People want cars with crazy power numbers i.e. Mustang, Charger etc.
A revived Pontiac could have some high-powered sedans. If people loved the V8 Charger and 300 I’m sure Pontiac could fill in a gap in the market.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon I think something like that just might be in the works at GM right now. I watched videos about on You Tube and there are hints about this very idea. If they bring Pontiac back it can be sold at Buick GMC dealers and not only that, GM has too many holes in its line up. On top of all of that, Cadillac CT5 and Cadillac CT4 need to share their platform with something to keep the viable. Know this, I suspect Pontiac would not be a full line brand. I see Firebird and Grand Prix returning and or maybe Bonneville. They will fill the slots nicely. The Dodge Charger is 207 inches long. That is why I said Bonneville. If Pontiac did return, four cars would work: Grand Am(small)( rear drive this time), Firebird( sports car), Grand Prix( medium) and Bonneville(large). You could put a GTO on the Grand Am or Grand Prix body. Just thinking out loud. This video is one I was referring to: ruclips.net/video/67leEVrdbGo/видео.html
I know it's not going to happen but pretty much mainly Pontiac and Holden would be the ones I would mostly like to come back also in a sense Oldsmobile and Saturn as well add four adults who like the import niceties of the Saab brand I would love to see them come back.
Yeah I wound definitely bring back Pontiac.
Oldsmobile and Pontiac was their best brands. Oldsmobile was just reliable and Pontiac designs were just very good the firebird was beautiful compared to the camero
Problem with late model Saturn was they were no longer Saturn designed, they were just rebranded other GM models making customers ask the question why not buy the original. You ignored the point where early Saturn's has higher performing engines than the Pontiac or Chevy compact models of the day. Cars has polymer body panels which never rusted and kept their shiny finish better than traditional GM models. Gas millage competed with Japanese cars while GM and Chevy didn't come close. As for Pontiac it was GM's performance branch with several models running in 24 hours at Daytona and Le Mans actually being competitive with Porsche wining races in their class. They were more successful than the more prestigious Corvette model for years. The 2004 to 2008 Pontiac Grand Prix with the 3800 engine was a personal favorite of mine. It was 3800 pounds so a pretty heavy body on good suspension which cornered surprisingly well. Even with a non supercharged V6 it was peppy and for drivers who were not looking to shred rear tiers the front wheel drive offered better traction and handling than the later G8 rear wheel drive. Best part was it gave over 30 mpg highway at a 60 mph cruising speed. Something unheard of for the time. Others promised but never delivered.
I agree. That 3800 engine was great.
GM could get rid of the exclusive dealers, then a GM dealer could sell only a couple Pontiac models - not a full line. Most cars could be sold online, the future GM dealer is mostly for warranty service
Interesting point!
I wish GM would bring back Pontiac driving excitement!😊
Oh yeah!
When it comes to the last years of Pontiac, the mid-size G6 got famous because Oprah Winfrey gave away over 200 of them to her audience members. I wonder if any of those audience members kept their G6 because of the Oprah connection.
I wish Pontiac and Oldsmobile would be revived the first car my mum owned was a used 1977 Firebird Esprit 400 with T Top roof and there were models from both I admired as a child Hurst Olds 442 Pontiac Catalina etc. though I can also understand why the brands were cancelled for dwindling sales and not being able to attract younger buyers who may have associated Oldsmobile with their grandparents even I'm one of those my late maternal grandmother drove 2 Oldsmobile Delta 88s in the 1970s one of which had a 7.4 L V8 under hood and the other had a 350 CID V8 under hood where as the biggest motor GM currently has is a 381 CID or 6.2 L that's used in the Corvette and the Cadillac CT5 V Blackwing though the Blackwing has 173 more horsepower from factory than the Corvette
That’s true about the 6.2 L engine. Let’s just see how long the CT5 V Blackwing gets to stick around before they get rid of that too…
GM made a mistake cutting out Pontiac, and Oldsmobile
Yep
the Monaro Based GTO was rear wheel drive, not front.
Well, when I said front wheel drive, I was referring to the Grand Prix and Bonneville, certainly not the GTO. Lol
Well someone’s a Buick fan…. Us “ignorant” guys from the 60’s were pretty well knowledgeable on who could mop up who. In the 70’s we were busy on little things like Vietnam, Navy Aviation & overseas travel. My Dad had a 69 GS 455 Skylark but wasn’t a real road scorcher. One guy I knew had a plain Jane Olds sedan that could smoke the tires off the rims, that one could stomp just about anything. The big boys were Chevy, Pontiac, Mopar, Ford and occasionally Olds. Check drags & stock car wins.
Thanks for the response. It’s great to hear you guy’s perspective.
In the hierarchy of GM, Cadillac holds the #1 spot. Followed by Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac and finally Chevrolet (Saturn being excluded because of its short life span). I think the main reason Buick was kept while the other mid-range makes were dropped is because Buick is held in such high esteem in China, where its considered more prestigious to own than other marks such as Cadillac, Mercedes Benz, BMW and other high-end cars. On an American standpoint you would think Oldsmobile or Pontiac would have been the better choice to keep and improve on as a mid-range choice between Cadillac and Chevrolet. This considering all Buick offers the American public today are a series of SUV's. This tells me its all about the Benjamin's, which (I guess) is no fault of GM's but a huge disappointment to American buyers.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Yes, you’re correct. It’s all about the Benjamins. And it’s odd how Buick in the Chinese market is seen as more prestigious than German luxury brands.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon I read awhile back that the emperor of China was gifted one back in the 1930's by the American ambassador, and it took off from there. It's now the car most people aspire to own. (go figure, huh?)
The problem with Pontiac is that chevy exists as the budget GM brand. GMC needs to become more like jeep and just bee the truck and suv brand with more off-roaders. Cadillac is doing well and buick just doesn’t make any sense.
You’re right. Buick doesn’t make any sense.
I don't understand why Buick is even still around. They need to get rid of it as well and just focus on Chevy and GMC, save money that way. It seems though nobody wants sedans much anymore, let alone American with the imports dominating with the price and quality and gas mileage. Everyone just wants SUV's. I have my old Jeep Liberty and I'd love to own a nice sedan, preferably an old Pontiac Grand or G line.
Yeah, a Pontiac sedan would be nice to own.
I would like to see Pontiac come back, revitalize the Fierro, the Grand Prix, and the solstice something to compete with the Miata and yes, even the Corvette, which I believe the Fierro had a potential of out performing the Corvette especially the 1988 last version of the fear of was amazingbut unfortunately GM has a habit of perfecting a vehicle and then taking it off the market. Why won’t these companies stick to something that works? Perfect it and continue with its perfection to out perform the imports.
That is an idea simple and so elusive in the American car industry they affect an engine they affect a transmission and then they discontinue it. What is the common sense reasoning behind what they do I don’t never understood it. I’m 60 years old and the American car industry never ceasesto disappoint me.
Yes, they should bring back the Fiero, Grand Prix and the Firebird definitely. Maybe a Solstice would be too similar to a Fiero.
I using have a Saturn l200 it was nice it was my first car I miss it
Pontiac created its own death by building some really ugly, plastic-cladded cars before their demise. To boot, you couldn’t get anything but a charcoal gray interior, which is the LAST thing you want in Texas. The death knell was of course the horrible Aztek, which got the reaction Edsel got when it was unveiled: an audible, uncomfortable gasp. I really liked Pontiac’s version of the Cobalt (the G whatever.. another mistake, killing model names), but by that time when I was looking, it was too late.
As far as “saving” Buick.. I saw the vehicle they call a “Buick Envista” the other day, and it broke my heart. It’s more Kia and Hyundai than Hyundai itself. Putting the Buick Tri-shield (if you want to call it that) on it is a sacrilege.
Yeah it’s sad what Buick has become. Thanks for commenting.
I am a big fan of Olds, and Pontiac, but, what they did to Saab was criminal.
What they did to *all* of them was criminal lol
Pontiac Firebird is for me the most missed GM car. With T-tops of course.
T-tops were great.
Pontiac- dedicated affordable fun / performance vehicles. Easy to purchase, engaging to drive, healthy parts market. With strong market research I think GM could make this work better than Scion ever could. It could be so simple…think of the decades worth of powerful engines, dedicated performance vehicle chassis’, and suspension systems GM could use / augment to price cut the market and put fun back in the hands of the consumer on a budget.
Saturn- Efficient vehicles with affordable to moderate pricing. Re introducing the brand as no longer being “dent resistant” or plastic but partial EVs, EVs, and maybe even a prelude to an all electric near luxury brand for GM. I feel that could meet consumer demand without compromising their main / core brands.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Pontiac and Saturn.
I would resurrect Oldsmobile as it should never have been cancelled in the first place. I would have cancelled Buick, not Oldsmobile! All Buick models have been made in China for the last 30 years! Oldsmobile cars were ALL made in U. S. factories. The decision to keep Buick and cancel Oldsmibile was because the former was cheaper to build, sold for more money, and reaped a greater profit for GM. So typical! I bought my father a 1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Special Edition station wagon in September 1993. It was completely optioned out with EVERY option available for 1994. My father was NEVER one to even wash a car, let alone have required maintenance performed. Since I was 14, I did all the maintenance on the family cars. My parents ALWAYS bought brand new cars since they were married. It was not uncommon for engines and transmissions of highly rated reliable/best buy cars to fail at 26,000 miles because of the way my father drove and maintained them. The 1994 Oldsmobile that I referred to lasted 9 years and was still in excellent condition (I was doing ALL the maintenance) when I decided that at 248,000+ miles it was time for a new car.
Thanks for sharing your story
If Saturn or Pontiac came back as an independent brand disassociated with GM, so that way they don't pick up the lower quality GM parts.
That’s actually not a bad idea if that were to ever happen.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon it absolutely would be terrific. The Grand Prix GTP with the 3800 Series II V6 was the best engine since the EFI 3.1 V6 version. The Saturn Sky IMO had crisp, clean lines.
Yeah the L36 and L67 motors were both great.
Daewoo is still making many GM cars. Alot more than you'd think, check your door tag for shock
Haha
Daewoo? That's a Korean Auto maker...🤣😆
@@levyoliver5363 Now General Motors-Korea.
I just hate that the G8 GXP’s & SS’s are soooo out of reach price wise 😂, you could literally buy a mustang that makes 5 horses over a GXP/SS for half the cost 🤦♂️ I understand they are somewhat rare but the gatekeeping prices gotta stop!
Ikr. G8 GXPs are priced way out of reach. The other GXPs are becoming the same way too..
I hate how Pontiac though only had sedans and coupes that were performance and luxury mixed with fuel economy and their other vehicles flopped. The imports that were economical were ugly though. I also hate how GM and a lot of other brands make the same vehicle and put a different name on it.
Good point
The chais was ancient, the 3800 would not pass emissions. By that point the w body was an ancient fossil.
Thanks for chiming in.
It was a wrong move to get rid of Pontiac!!!! They should have tried to keep Oldsmobile Intrigue!!! P.K.
The Oldsmobile Intrigue was awesome. Yes, Pontiac should have stayed.
I got rid of my Pontiac with 263K on the clock, rust up to the door handles, and a haunted transmission. 15 years old. I would have gladly bought another one, had Pontiac still been there.
Saturn was boring and about as exciting as a vanilla cone. Oldsmobile was OLD.
Hummer were gas guzzling land barges. Saab were about as reliable as a Fiat.
Haha! Yep Hummers weren’t known to be efficient.
Getting rid of Pontiac was the dumbest move ever, and showed a shocking lack of gratitude to them for correcting all (or at least most) of Chevy's engineering mistakes for 85 years.
Yes. Preach!
Pontiac: Too bad they weren’t able to make a modern Firebird like Chevy got to with the “Bumblebee” Camaro. Lol.
And I’m always curious how a modern Pontiac would look.
Saab: Honestly disappointed such a quirky brand was diluted by mismanagement. Always loved the interiors, especially with the green lights, and every Saab I’ve gotten to drive I liked.
Saturn: So much potential in the 90’s. I remember seeing a lot of them. But, GM seems to be unable to juggle so many brands and maintain each identity.
Oldsmobile: I’ve driven a few and I even really like a few. But, I think they needed to be more unique maybe? The fact that Buick and Cadillac also existed while Chevy was there too… too much internal competition, not to mention the competitor’s brands. Hard sell.
Hummer: Meh… not my kind of vehicle, but to each their own.
Unfortunately I think a modern Pontiac would be mostly SUVs. Haha.
Unless they get somebody in charge that is an actual car enthusiast.
If you look back though at all these brands last decade of existence it was time to go. They were boring, unreliable, and copies of one another
I would like to see Pontiac return
Same.
Thanks for your input.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon my pleasure
GM is importing some of their vehicles from China and South Korea.The Buick Envision is made in China. The Chevrolet Trax,
Buick Encore GX and Buick Envista are made in South Korea.
Yeah it’s crazy so many Buicks are made in China
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon Yeah, especially since American and Canadian taxpayers bailed out GM when they were going bankrupt. So what does GM do? Builds new plants in Mexico. Next time GM runs into trouble they can ask Mexico, South Korea and China to bail them out.
I'm tired of stupid trucks. The body on frame Caprice with an iron block V6 or V8 engine would sell incredibly well. Comfortable, reliable, easy to service and safe, every police department and taxi company would buy them. My father was an autobody repairman and he claimed that this platform was the safest car on the road. It was the only car he would let us drive.
I agree. I really like the Big Caprice and Buick Roadmaster from 1991.
Agreed! Ending Pontiac was a humongous mistake. I miss my Grand am and Grand Prix. I had a 99 Saturn SL1 also got it up to 190k miles before I sold it to coworker still running just needed an alternator. Thank Obama for the bail out.
Yeah Pontiac should’ve stuck around. Glad to hear you owned a reliable SL1.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon Berry reliable. Most reliable car I have ever owned. I think throughout the years I had it the only thing done to it was Tires, brakes and that flex exhaust manifold part.
Say what you will. But my Pontiac Bonny was such smooth fun drive
I actually like the Bonneville
Bring back the Monte carlo and they can keep some buicks and being back some Pontiac brands
Yeah a new Monte Carlo would be nice.
I miss full size coupes.
Same.
@MotorMaster_Stunticon yeah...like Buick Riviera. Olds Delta 88, Chevy Caprice, Pontiac Bonneville...all the 2 door full size cars
They also messed up when they did away with the saber in the Park Ave., Indian powers from the early 2000s those were nice looking cars what is 3806
Yep the LeSabre and Park Avenue were great with the 3800 engine.
i wanna see pontiac make its way back
Same here. Thanks for watching.
GM should bring back Pontiac to compete with Toyota and Honda. Pontiacs basically were rebadged Chevys, but they were much more stylish. Chevy just gives off a “basic” image that kinda turns me off.
Pontiacs really were exciting looking. I had a Grand Am GT coupe and loved it. The car was practical, but it looked really cool, and was stylish. The G6 that replaced the Grand Am was so boring looking, and basically alienated the brand. The G8 was a great vehicle, but imo it was ugly.
I know Consumer Reports shredded Pontiac on a regular basis for the plastic body molding (somehow they give Subaru a pass.. bias much), but it did add a cool racy look.
You’re right. I liked the design of the Grand Am GT more than the G6.
But at least the G6 was available in a variety of models i.e. coupe, sedan, convertible so that was a good thing.
@@MotorMaster_Stunticon agreed. One of my buddies had a G6 convertible in college, and it was a pretty cool car. The G6 sedan’s body style was such a snore though.