"THE PERFECT FRAME" or Hype?
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2021
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Развлечения
Shoot, I feel bad for this guy who bought the frame!
*FPV pilot:* "Hey Steele, look at this neat frame I just got!"
*Steele:* "It's trash. and also pointless. I mean, I'm not really certain what the intention of the design is, but it's pointless."
*FPV Pilot:* "Oh. Okay. Good point"
Look, Steele's ultimate point of "the frame itself is not what makes you fly better" is valid, and he's obviously very experienced as a pro FPV pilot, and I get that this is not intended to be a thorough review. However, this was basically just a trash-talking session based on a LOT of assumptions. It's also worth noting that Steele's opinion carries a lot of weight for many people in the FPV community, so it is (at least) in very poor taste to bash someone's work without at least *some* evidence to show.
Full disclosure, I've been enjoying Rosser's videos and design theory, so I'm a bit biased in his defense. I bought the AOS 5.5 (about to put it together) for many reason OTHER than minute vibration damping--mostly I think it's an interesting, different design and I appreciate the thought and calculation that went into it. I love the creativity and experimentation that goes into innovation. That said, maybe it is trash and hype, but I'll wait to actually test it before I pass a life or death judgement over it.
As much as i love the apex, his trash talk is just too much... quite disappointing to me at least.
I think he was just bashing the title of the perfect frame. He keeps saying it flies like any other quad. So why is it the best? And even if it doesn't have all the vibrations, what was the cost of reaching that goal? In the end the builder is the most important, since you can ruin it all with a simple antenna. So is it trully the best?
@@parIiament_ The title of the frame is not "The perfect frame". Chris did make a couple videos titles "My perfect AOS 5 build" which means that the specific build discussed is perfect for Chris. The frame is not called "perfect" on any page on Chris' website or on the store website. So Steele really made a fool out of himself by going with the assumptions of 1 pilot and himself.
@@Rob-ky1ob yeah but Steele also said he doesn't watch yt drone vids so someone might have gave him bad info, by trying to hype up the frame. And as he says it flies like any other frame including his so he's not saying it flies better or worse, he's more worried about the durability and ease of build, he just comes of brash. But yeah he would have to live with and tune the frame for a while to make a real informed opinion.
Hilarious thing is that Chris Rosser absolutely RAVES about Apex frame, calling it the unicorn and explains the design choice making it so good in one of his videos
I think being skeptical of new hype is generally fair but a lot of the criticisms you made here don't make a lot of sense to me. Mainly you talked about how "complex" the design is and how difficult it would be to build and maintain, and you even said it has way too many screws. The frame only uses 16 screws and 8 standoffs in total which is LESS hardware than the Apex and most other frames out there. Replacing the arm is still only 2 screws but there's no hard to reach lock nuts to mess with. In terms of ease of build and maintenance there's nothing about this design that's really better or worse than any other frame except for maybe the lack of electronics mounting in the middle section. You also made a big deal about the way the antennae and gopro were mounted which has absolutely nothing to do with Chris's design and only with how this guy built it and there are better options available.
Dudes just making a fool of himself lmao
There's 16 visible frame screws on the bottom alone not counting motor screws
I am guessing he just wants people to continue buying his frame :)
@@hakimdurand8427 You're right
@@NoflectioN I should clarify I was referring to the amount of hardware for the frame kit. 8 of those screws you see on the bottom plate are just for mounting the stacks and aren't structural.
I don't know the guy who brought the build or his brother who built it, but if they are just random people who purchased the frame and have no affiliation with Chris Rosser, then I feel bad for them. Asking a random consumer what the design intent of a product is doesn't feel fair. It'd be a perfectly fair question if the questions were directed to Chris Rosser
Ya and it didn't seem to me that they actually knew much about the frame which didn't help. I think Steele could smell they bought it on hype and that really got him going. Disappointed
the weird part is that steel was dissing the frame up and down saying its got a million screws blah blah but his frame is one of the harder frames to build with said million screws to remove also lol
Some people are using front and back reinforcements for years. The result is on one hand less vibrations, and in the second one less arms breaking.
It's funny Steele says that he doesn't watch youtube drone stuff because it's "too intense" and proceeds to lay into this frame hard.
He was probably mostly referring to Bardwell's intense angry eyes in all of his videos
he actually flew like crap but I think it's because of wind
Can I get you to pour a cup of haterade over my design too? 😅 You may have just made the aos5 one of the most popular frames around...
Preface this by saying you're just playing devil's advocate and it's all cool.
I'm getting one just because he hates it. What a Toad...
Roasted
I was thinking the same thing, it's such a bummer too! I thought Steele was better than that. I won't be buying any more of his motors! 🤷
I'll be buying a few of the aos5 frames now lol. I'll also be throwing some of those new white kabab motors on it, they are the bees knees!
Why do you have to be so sensible 🤣
So I don't see any reason why to buy a 900$ apex quad that flies like any other quad !!!! ?????
agreed
Haha, the irony! A quad flies just like any other quad, unless it's a Steele quad. Then you can fly just as crazy as Mr Steele. So much Wow.
EXACTLY!!! His products are shit and he knows it
REMINDER: Steele sells a $900 analog bnf yet thinks all frames fly the same. Big Yikes. I'll never buy another Ethix or Impulse product purely based on principal.
I wont buy anythi g ethix kuz steele is an ego loser
@@stevenhaines1105 are you alright
No getfpv sells a $900 quad.
Dude, honestly… I’m an aerospace engineer, trust me, all those things do matter.
I honestly believe you’re not giving it a fair shake here. You might not like it for other reasons, which could be fair, but when it comes down to reducing vibrations and smooth video, that thing is the shit! I honestly would love for you to fly it exclusively for a while, get used to it, and then go back to any other ‘just a quad’ frame. You’ll eat your own words, guaranteed!
He wont do it because he flies a frame of a certain brand, and has a deal with them i think, and would be like promoting a frame from another brand.
@@ashingashinga I don’t dispute that, but would love to see it happen anyway, just to keep him honest
Is there really that big of a big difference in vibration from the Apex to Chris's frame?
@@AgroAaronFpv can't remember but there is some difference. Check his videos where he does a blackbox analisis of the apex, and on another video does same analisis for the AOS 5
@@AgroAaronFpv based on Cris rossers analysis, the apex is definitely one of the better frames out there. So the difference between that pair is smaller then compared to any random frame. But if I can think of anyone that feels the difference, it’s Steele. I honestly think that he would never go back once he got used to it.
Basically. Mr. Steele says if it's not ethix affiliated it's not in the mix.
fr tho
Yeah , he can't objectively say he likes it, without his entire audience going out and buying it. If this man says jump, 75 percent of the freestyle community say...how high? Of he says go break your quad, lmfao people do it....
Say no more🤭
@@skyweaver3199 Honestly I think that Mr. Steele, even tho a great pilot, is too idolized, as there are some very skilled pilots just like him out there. otherwise, he seems just kinda non-attention wanting and pretty chill.
@@nickcormode I don't disagree
It was a very unbiased review. You can really hear how objective Mr Steele is all the way through the video ;)
really sounds like “if i’m not sponsored i don’t like it” type thing tbh
he said aos isnt buying my porsche
The main point of dampening vibrations is so that you can tune it more aggressively by lowering the filters, which gives you less prop wash and d gain oscillations. Obviously there won't be a difference you can feel in flight performance running stock betaflight pids.
Ok you set it up more aggressively.
What do you do when you bend a prop? Oh no i touched something i need drop quad right now and change my prop immediately otherwise i might melt my motors. aos is not a frame for old school freestyle pilots this frame is for blackbox nerds who fly 2 times a year.
@@ivandrago1055 That is just bullshit. Some people enjoy tuning their quad to the absolute max and yeah, if you crash, you have to walk your lazy ass up to your quad to not burn out your motors or ESC. So what? Its not like those people don't fly bashers as well or only fly 2 times a year. Let others just do what they want without talking shit about it.
@@ivandrago1055 Any given tune will have more tolerance for bent props with a frame like this, compared to other frames, because it was consciously designed to damp out vibrations.
@@ivandrago1055 watch Chris’ video on tuning and you’ll understand that what you said is wrong.
@@lajulasse4332 I saw this shit!! just turn off filters and use only brand spend new components in your build. Why i need to see virgin who can't fly at all?
After watching this video, I had a strong desire to change my Ethix Mambo to a regular one. Very disappointed.
Can I ask, why did you go for the Ethix version? As far as I can see, there's very little incentive for getting the Ethix version over the regular one, unless you really like to ridding yourself of 50 USD.
@@ojkolsrud1 That was the only option available at my location at that time. And l like the gray color.
@@HeroRc Sure, I can understand that! But given the choice, would you pay 50USD for that gray color?=P
It's 2 screws to change an arm.
That's not bad then , though I take off the top plate more than anything, if it's still just the standard 8 screws and no fiddling around with a camera cage it's good to me.
Place your bets! Do you think in the next video:
1: Steele is gonna have a slight apology or
2. He is gonna act like this never happened!
I vote 2!
Steele, you have to watch the video where the designer explains all about the frame, why is desgined like that, all the analysis he did, durability, choice of props, motors, etc. Very interesting. This is the first quad that has been created with a more scientific aproach, not just making a good looking quad. I think this is an area where the hobby needs more development, and hasnt been adressed properly. Also, the quad you flown, was properly tuned or was just stock pids and filters?
To be fair the quads we fly were developed with a scientific approach as well you just didn't see a video on it. It just comes down most people prefer building and flying more than looking at fluid dynamics simulations or whatever.
You think he's the only engineer working in this shit? Forget the vibrations give me something simple and durable. If Steele says it flies like every other quad I believe him
Steele was a bit blunt but I get what he's saying. Just fly and have fun. Lots of pilots don't care about vibrations unless they're obvious in the goggle.
Heck, I got way too many quads and all are still blheli-s, half with single esc's, all 4s and all analog.
If it flies I'll have fun with it! No need for fancy stuff.
Imo the fancy stuff is only needed if you're a racer and a "world class pilot"(even sounds fancy lol)
Yeah I think it the whole "my gear is holding me back" effect of a lot of pilots when in reality you just need more stick time, one frame with less vibration is not going to make you a better pilot.
@@audiogek Cool story bro
I love my Apex, don't really care about the AOS, but that was poor form by Mr. Steele. This video left the whole fpv community shaking their heads.
Couldn't have put it better myself
Best comment in this thread. Others could take note instead of calling out the obvious
Because he is as honest and knowledgeable about what he says!? And can we stop it with this fov community BS, it's ok to have your own opinion
@@charlierose1708 Yeah, I got no problems with his opinions, in fact I agree with a lot of it. But you can express an opinion and not be a dick about it. And judging by the comments, the vast majority have the same sentiments.
Well that's what going against the hype means
What I really like about the frame is that Chris is actually innovating. Pushing things, investigating other ways to think about things, and having the courage to put stuff out there is what pushes our hobby forward. Yes clearly there are compromises, however innovations like this help us learn, understand and they contribute to the hobby. Nothing gets better when we are just happy with the status quo. I think we should encourage more things like this even if they may not be perfect. There are countless examples of innovations that people have created that had MAJOR compromises that ended up being total game changers later on.
On the vibration issue - I don't think it's that people are concerned so much about vibrations in terms of how they affect flight or GoPro footage (heck one prop with a tiny little bend in it will cause so many more vibrations like you alluded to). So, people are not tuning around vibrations for that - they are tuning around vibrations for propwash. The less vibration, the less filtering, the lower the latency, the better the propwash handling. When you have a floppy antenna, imperfect props, etc it will of course cause a lot of vibrations, but having even 10% less vibrations can make a big difference in the amount of propwash you have to endure.
Anyways, I'm not saying that I disagree with this video, but I think we need to be careful that we are encouraging this type of innovation rather than discouraging it because in the end more understanding of what is possible/what works/what doesn't work helps us all.
Lols or you could just flash bf 4.3 master build on nearly any half decent FS quad on the market today and get half the ‘noise’ out of the gate..
I don't really get the innovation bit as we've had hour glass style frames in racing for a while now.. I can't see anything new here, but I dont have the frame in my hands to get a good look at it so maybe I'm missing something
@@ufopilotFPV The innovation is the vibration analysis. This hasn't really been done to much of a degree before.
so youre telling me chris is innovating and mr steele isnt? :D
@@ThePapanoob No, I did not say that at all.
Steele roasting Chris Rosser lol
LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't even know the dude but I feel bad. Steele woke up and chose to eminem Rosser.
first time I see Steel criticizes something, hope this will motivate someone to create something new 😇
Steele got mad his brain couldn't understand higher level engineering concepts and chose violence
for the price of 2 Apex frames you can get 3 aos frames so consider that when talking about durability
I’ve got 4 apex frames. Your point is? Oh yeah saving money. Dude your in the wrong hobby if you throw economic strategy money saving tips like that.
@@creationlabsinc.189 my obvious point is 1 that the durability part is bs, it has 6mm carbon on that shape thats way more structurally rezistent that a normal arm, you can swap arms with just 2 screws.
2. For the price of 2 apex frames you cab get 3 aos so that makes it less expensive to use în the long term and its cheaper if it breaks, obviously.
3. As for usability, has less screws than the apex where if i want to work on the stack screws i have to disassemble the arms to get to the screws.
@@creationlabsinc.189 why would you need 2 apex frames when the replacement parts are free for 2 years? Does AOS have that?
@@creationlabsinc.189 It's not an expensive hobby. It's actually one of the cheapest hobbies in relation to almost every other hobby. Guns, cycling, motorsports, watches, photography, audio, etc.
@@littlejackalo5326 Creationfags's main argument is "I'm rich"
Feel these days steeles opinions are too biased by the fact that he has a major stake in the companies he’s a part of..
Yep it’s called business. It’s a little thing that’s made me millions over the past decade.
You do realize this thing you call a hobby has landed him a house a few cars. Trips all over the world. You should try it sometime
@@creationlabsinc.189 You have an attitude problem. And seems like you like talking down to people. Wont be surprised if your employees talk shit behind your back.
@@jumpstartfpv he doesn't have any employees. He doesn't have any money. He is probably just impersonating people who do. A person who is as rich as he claims to be, doesn't go around harassing people on youtube, and bragging in at least 3 different replies about how supposedly rich he is. He is just a kid or bad troll.
It’s always been this way for Steele.
I've been flying fpv and watching Steele for 5+ years....amazing pilot. Had to unsubscribe from the podcast due to Rubens insanity and this video made my stomach turn. Your better than this. Why would you even post this?
Cause he's not better than this. You thought he was.
Good pilot or not, be respectful. You can be endorsed by sponsors and still have a level of humility. This says a lot about your character. And it’s not exactly a good way to represent your sponsors. I like many others will likely boycott ethix just on principle. There are plenty of other great companies putting out great product that do maintain a certain level of “ethix.”
Tommy, for example. I can't imagine him bashing other people's hard work, because he knows how much work goes into things like designing a good frame.
No need for boycotts, he just showed his first impressions. Ethix stuff is very good as well as Apex and AOS frames. If you fly over concrete, get Botgrinder's frame. If you are a cruiser or fly over the grass, get the AOS.
Not sure what’s going on here…feels like maybe someone was trying to tell Steele his Apex is shit compared to this Chris Rosser frame or something like that.
Don't really know think he cares
@@ugpfpv361 LMAO dude is clearly livid. Did you even watch the video?
@@nowthatsdank6281 dude haha
Editing this like "should I include the part where I dunk on a rando and make him feel dumb? Absolutely" 😦
@@nowthatsdank6281 u ever met Steele in person? He doesn’t care. Amazing how stuff roles off his back. Not saying being this blunt is a good thing but Steele is a self admitted asshole for years. I admire his business tactics too. Reminds me of myself which landed me lucrative multimillion dollar deals.
The benefit of vibration dampening is to run less software filtering which also will reduce latency. Giving you a more locked feel. If the quad he flew was on stock tune, like he said it was. It's gonna feel like any old quad.
Mostly, yes. But I can think of better ways of reducing vibration on the FC than this super-complicated frame.
It's simply that a quad isn't something you build and then put in a glass case & admire its design. You crash it repeatedly & repair & take apart. This design will make all of that more painful.
@@Vousie watch Chris's video where he shows how he built his AOS5. It's as simple as unscrewing the top 8 screws and everything is easily accessible, like in nazgul. You can easily change the arm by unscrewing 2 screws, so that's easy as well.
Mr Steele is making fool of himself and is fooling you as well. Don't let him do that 😂
@@pawelwypijewski This has nothing to do with Steele and everything to do with what that frame is. I'm just looking at the build and seeing how complex it is. Maybe it's as easy as you say, but I just don't like the complexity. There are better ways of dealing with vibration.
@@Vousie Could you elaborate on those better ways of dealing with vibrations?
I would like to know them. In my spare time I'm designing a smaller quad frame so that's quite interesting to me.
@@pawelwypijewski Vibration isolation on the FC itself. There's 3D printed mounts people use for example. Most effective ones are if you can use sticky gel pads. Mainly the idea is to non-rigidly attach the FC to the frame. I run ArduPilot which is a bit more sensitive to vibrations (more complex algorithms for all the autonomous features) so for my quad the FC came with rubber grommets but that wasn't enough so I've actually velcroed the FC to the top plate, with the velcro attached through the holes on the rubber grommets. I know that's a bit unsual but it works quite well. Using velcro also means it's still easy to remove the top plate.
It's a shame, no doubt you're a great pilot - but you came across as a prat in this and I hope you were just having a bad day rather than this behaviour being your true character, because its pretty ugly.
My thoughts exactly. Might be a thing that comes with age. The world is a messed up enough place as it is. We learn to not shit on happy peoples shiny new toys even if its valid and justified. It's all about being humble and kind.
I found this to be very condescending and almost defensive. Instead of embracing it for what it was, it was the typical 'I am know' ... It honestly has made me avoid the videos from then on. This is a stark contrast to the nazgul video, where he still sort of say 'liking this costs me money! but its ok!'. I think there comes a time when people start to get greedy and forget that there are enough people to find and buy virtually every product intriplicate.
agreed
I mean that's his whole deal , being a douch nozzle.
Kinda felt bad for the guy, especially when Steele asked "tell me if I'm wrong". He is wrong:
- black box is the way to tune
- vibrations are important when you take D-term to the edge
- Steele flights Kiss and most of us fly Betaflight. Different tuning, much less I-term overshoot etc.
- Its not hard to build, took me about 2 minutes to assemble the full frame
- Not a whole lot of extra screws
- Replacing an arm is removing 2 screws (none of which are stack screws) and you can replace it
So basically, Steele was wrong about every single thing he said in this video.
@@Rob-ky1ob for years he’s a self admitted asshole. He knows it too. However he’s the one making thousands a month doing what he loves. No one ever said in this hobby Steele holds his opinions back even if he’s off the mark talking smack.
So, let's see how good you fly. I bet Steele is 10 times better. He also knows his shit homie. You can give him that at least.
@@richardbelisle8541 argumentum ad verecundiam.
@@user-lu2cy9xv2z to the edge of hot motors or flyaways. Given you got your PID balance right, increasing D lets you to increase P and I proportionally (master slider). And that helps quad to follow the sticks and reduce propwash.
And if you are Mr Stele you are looking for the quad response as sharp and precise as possible.
Insert "Old Man Yells at Cloud" meme here.
Thank god hes such a a good pilot because Steele is just completely insufferable as a person. I mean talk about crippling narcissism. Jesus H.
Yep, says a lot of things in such a way to come off as a complete @$$#0!#
100%. I’m new to the hobby and I like and buy Ethix gear but he’s always rubbed me the wrong way. True professionals are humble and realize how much they *don’t* know about their field. This just comes across as him being threatened and out of his depth.
@@WomFPV as a builder and owner of several businesses over the decades I can tell you if you want to be a millionaire and I’m not saying Steele is, you step on a lot of toes and make many enemies. Your probability in this for the hobby? Well Steele isn’t. It’s pure business and this “attitude” is his style.
@@WomFPV I’m not saying I’d have a beer with him. I’m just saying it’s business and even playing with these toys it can get heated.
So you look past people's character flaws because of something as trivial as his skill as a pilot!? I think this says more about you than Steele 🤣😂 I agree with him these hypetrain frames come every couple months and there's a bunch of explaining why it's new and the best and they all end up feeling the same. The equipment you use has a much bigger impact on the feel of a quad than the frame ever will
Is Steele threatened.
Sure looks like it
Dude you really missed the point of this frame, actually watch the video by Chris and you will see that there is no hype, just careful engineering and data driven design
Yeah I'm sure it's other telling him it's the next slice of bread
Na it's all hype feels no different than any other quad frame maybe a bit worse to be honest
Dude, are you seriously denying the power of triangles!? Hasn't engineering taught you anything ;)
You can't beat a triangle! 👌△
But the downside of this triangle is when you crash in a tree...
@@MrSmithFPV A Bugatti is far beyond what you need from a car, it will also crumple if you crash it into a tree. Pushing the limits of technology is never a bad thing, if you don't wanna deal with crashing it into a tree then don't use it.
@@owaind-g678 Yes, I don't will use that because that triangle design is not that good for freestyle in my opinion. But of course it's damn good for any kind of cinematic flying where you need a frame without any vibrations for a clean HD video. 👍
@@MrSmithFPV yes if you hit head-on with one of the arms it is head-on with an x config it's hitting at an angle, time will be the answer here.
These are some really good points. The reasons I bought the AOS 5.5:
The vibration analysis is excellent, so I can push the tune. I’m not even sure this means anything or is relevant to the way I fly, but I wanted a platform to experiment with. To be fair, Chris Rosser says the Apex has excellent vibration characteristics. So… the different between what you usually fly and this frame are going to be less about the frame and more about everything else.
I am going to design, print, and choose parts that work with this frame PERFECTLY. I’m not going to toss whatever mount I have on it.
I don’t like crashing and I don’t crash often. You fly sooo much more aggressively than I do and it is super cool to watch… but I won’t be needing to repair this quad as much as you repair yours.
I fly with a Hero 9, and 5in has always felt a little underpowered for the Hero 9. I’m excited to experiment with a prop that doesn’t make the quad a ton bigger, but has more surface area for the extra weight.
Ive never seen this side of mr steele, and ive been watching him from the start, you cant even say this frame is "hype" as its been designed by a engineer with data to back it up. Steele has got his back up about something?? If your gonna review a frame at least have it built and tuned as chris recommends.
This is the real mr steelie
Agree man , he's so biased without actually giving it a fair shot, maybe hes mad people will not by mr steele apex frames.... who knows. This was just not an open fair discussion, he pressured the other guys so much with his presence and way of questioning they sort of had to agree with him.. kinda seeing a sad side of him. seems i just need to enjoy his flying and not his attitude :D
He's alwaya been a cocky lil $hit. he just knew how to hide it and acting all humble.
As far as i see chris has tried to contribute to a community with his expertise, hes not cloning shit like 80% of the markets, hes brought something different to the table, then the biggest name in fpv hates on it wtf. Has the world gone made hes pushing innovation, money money money. Just saying not hating on anyone lol
this has been steeles m.o. from day one. guy still flies analog for petes sake
He could have summed up the video by saying “I don’t understand this so it’s obviously stupid, buy my stuff instead”
You crap on someone's work, you tell us you don't watch drone stuff, and you are making fewer and fewer vids, then thank those of us still watching like we are chumps. I never figured you for that type, but honestly your relevance has slipped so Ill see ya around.
This dude has been a dick since day 1 still does same tricks from 2015 !!! Idk who still watches him but poor guy him and skitzo look old and fragile now !!
@@EMDRONES You two are really angry what the hell did he do to you. "This dude has been a dick and does the same tricks from 2015" lol this whole sentence... Is he supposed to be your entertainment machine or something? "Old and fragile" are we still talking about a guy flying a quad or are you talking about something personal?
He flies, you watch it if you want. It's that simple. He isn't a dick to you since he doesn't even know who you are and no one forces you to watch anything.
Damn those two comments are fucking bullshit and they are aimed towards a person you haven't even met like he killed your girlfriend.
@@maxrei8786 ur funny idk who you are fake bot account hack job Iv met and spoken and been around steel RotorRiot IO the first year 2017 and other locations so yeah ur funny
@@maxrei8786 Oh, you mean like Steele did to Chris and his frame design? 🤔
I think you missed the boat on this one. You can't review that frame with somebody else's build choices. Build one up with your component choices, tune it to your preferences, then give your opinion of that. The science of the frame resonance characteristics is solid and gives a great starting point to build from.
Right on ! Steele anyway is super biased so honest opinions from him arent expected though i must say he honestly isnt aware of Chris' objectives and should definitely try building his own to compare fairly.
Well said mate!
@@aakashjana6225 your probably right. Or he’s so busy running a business he doesn’t have time to evaluate every frame that comes out.
@@creationlabsinc.189 well you know one doesnt earn the right to criticise something without learning or atleast knowing what goes into its making . He is no doubt a great pilot but not necessarily a great engineer as he himself has not designed anything ground breaking yet
First Mr Steele video I've ever disliked :/ His whole attitude from start to finish is really...weird. He went in with negative intent. Did the guy who made this kick his dog or something?
Nah. The guy who made this actually praised the Apex frame. In return, Steele bashed the guys frame for no reason with some comments that don’t even make sense.
This is what happens when you have Ethix, not ethics.
In business, ethics are good if your a sales employee and not the ceo/owner of said brand. That being said, good manners would be a better way of what your trying to say. In this case he’s being an asshole.
I have both Apex and AOS 5, feeling is different, no doubt I pick up AOS 5 as my favor one
really? U have zero videos on your channel.
Saying "I'm not trying to be negative" again and again doesn't make sense if you're negative...
It was honesty
Yeah, I honestly think it was part Ethix marketing…
Exactly, if he feels the need to repeat that multiple times, it’s because he knows he’s trying real hard to be negative. 😂
I really hope this is not the type of content I can expect from now on. This was difficult to watch. Cringy AF and uninformed. At least the other guys prepare and do research on the shit they try to show us, even if they think it's bad.
Agreed! It made me sad. I wasn't expecting him to be that bad. I was already planning on buying a frame now I'll buy 2 and throw some nice white kabab motors on them! No more Steele/ethix products for me😔
I know right. To think I used to think this guy was cool. It's never cool to put people's hard work down.
no offense but are you sure you can judge it by flying it for just 1 minute?
Oh so learning how well it skids isn't enough for you?
@@ratchet_hoe not rly
He started before even touching it
Steele had a tall glass of Hateraide that day.
I could have cut the filtering delay in half and pushed the PIDs up in about one minute with my phone and made that thing fly a lot better, without having flown it or looking at blackbox. I'm surprised they handed you an untuned quad and expected you to be impressed.
Tbh this was kinda like watching a kid throw his toys out of the pram 😂, no respect what so ever, and saying anything about price is mad because Ethix stuff is waaaaay over priced.
What even is the Ethix stuff? Other stuff with an Ethix logo on them? A cool broad Fatshark headband? I guess the motors might be custom designed by Ethix, but then there's things like the Ethix edition of the Mambo. You pay 50 USD more for a different paint job and a knob that "goes to 11". Seriously?
Steele v. Rosser debate. Bardwell should mediate 😆
That would be amazing
Steele doesn't know enough to have a decent discussion
i want % on the Pay-per-View income
lol that is funny! But the thing is, there is no need to debate, because ultimately the only opinions that matter are the ones coming from the people buying, building, and flying the frames! The market/community will decide the products' fate (note, though, that I didn't say "decide a winner or loser," because there doesn't really need to be one! it's all personal preference). 👌
@@RCwithAdam1 I agree a "debate" isn't necessary but the conversation would definitely be an interesting one
"I'm not trying to be negative"
proceeds to be negative
This video's whole argument is undermined when he said "this is just the stock tune".
It actually proves a point.
@@noobFPV what point, that stock pids fly ok but a tune flies better?
@@rowannadon7668 That people fall for hype, buy "perfect frame" when they don't know how to fly, build or tune drone.
@@noobFPV The whole point of the AOS5 is to run Chris Rosser's tune. He literally gives you it.
Steele before you even flew it you allready had your mind made up. I love my micro apex but Im not going to throw the competition under the bus just because you say so. You did the exact opposite of what rosser did to you, he complimented your frame and you showed 0% respect to your colleague in the business Why not loft eachother up and give Rosser credit for what he is trying to do and by taking quad frames to the next level with science
(for the benefit of all of us!). Resonance absolutely makes a difference, and you know that. I dont get the point of this video, maybe you should take rossers approach on your next design! I personally rather have the best resonance possible before the frame being easy to assemble and disassemble. Maybe this is your chance to revolutionize your frames with better resonance and easy assembly! Good luck steele, we all respect you and you will always be a top 5 pilot no matter what.
Lets build and fly for the love! Not for our pockets!🙏🏼
what you don't seem to understand is many frames go through engineering stress testing, bb analysis etc etc. all that happened is someone talked you through it.
Don't think he know about the designer or what he's said about the apex which Steele didn't design anyway
@@ugpfpv361 @Coppertop FPV :
Who said I dont “understand” frames go through r&d, and are tested before launch. And I didn’t mean steele designs frames, but he pushes them so he can make money off particular ones. What Im saying is that this was a dick move that the other person effected by the videos statements, didnt get a chance to defend. Steele is picking at dumb arguments like the assemblability and the screw count of the aos frame instead of any valid points that would make the frame bad. Which in reality it just makes steele look jealous and irascible. Its obvious this review was not well thought through before release and only made public because of steeles feelings and not because of any real problems with the aos.
@@CoppertopFPV I doubt that many frames were developed with the aid of the simulations and other methods Rosser used to come up with this. The majority of the original designs out there seem to be built more with aesthetics in mind rather than practical engineering considerations, and some of them happened to land on something that works well.
newsflash: end of day we are all just twiddling our thumbs which is by far the greatest input to how a build flies. pick a frame that mounts the components you want, where you want them. considering construction and durability to fit your level of flying. and send it.
My 6" Hyperlow RS+ is still going strong after about a year. I haven't broken an arm or anything yet, but I've mushroomed a few standoffs and bent a few screws. It got converted into deadcat a few months ago and is now a dedicated Hero 8 carrying machine.
@@Perforator2000 good to hear!! i recently put the arm files up for free to cut and modify if you ever need to!
@@Hyperlow Cool. I was wondering if that model is coming back in stock or if you've moved on to other designs. I've been considering getting the RS+ EX top and bottom plates to gain some room in the back for digital VTXs.
@@Perforator2000 i have an update coming that will fit a vista and 30x30 stack. and will adjust from true x 6" to 5" deadcat with the same arm.
I've got a 8s 7" Hyperlow CG with Dji, and I'd love to build another one, but I can't find any. Did you discontinue it? It's the best flying 7" I've ever built.
Fewer vibrations will allow less filtering, which in turn leads to less latency in the PID loop. It's just good engineering. The Apex is already quite good in this sense, but the AOS 5 is designed to optimize this particular aspect.
Lols shame it doesn’t come with a tune.. after all the frame carries the tune
This!
@@Sugar_K the tune is the job of the pilot mostly. Unless its a rtf.
@@andrewut7ya511 nope I sell frames and they come with a tune so does another friend of mine from the uk who makes very nice FS quads.. mine are racers and my tune is so balling it’s the hot ticket through out the racing world right now on literally any frame that’s pretty good.. it’s also doing the rounds on apexs and these things in certain communities 😂
@@Sugar_K You could literally just copy the tune Chris is showing in his videos. And a tune, no matter the frame, is highly personal.
I like you but, criticize something that you don’t understand is quite stupid. Specially when your V4 motors are as weak as usual and I know it because I bought them.
You are extremely good with your fingers but not smarter than Chris, no one is smarter than Chris 😂. You may want to watch the explanation of this frame in his channel. And then tune your quad to another level.
I agree with Steele, use what works for you. He said straight up, yup fly just like every other quad. The main thing he was pointing out is when you crash it and it brakes its gonna be as lot harder to swap out arms or what ever to get it flying again. The whole antenna flopping around... I think he was digging at chris a tad because awhile ago chris was posting videos about how a unsolidly mounted vtx antenna causes huge amounts of vibrations in the FC. It is what it is, build, fly, smash and repeat.
A little harsh on the guy who bought it, couldve been a little more thoughtful
Honesty hurts sometimes 🤷 doesn't mean you shouldn't stand in your own truth because someone may get their feelings hurt😂 you guys ever experienced life because this wouldn't be my hill I die on 🤣
Did steele just ward off something as "hype"???!!!!! Lol
Dampening vibrations is a big thing. You can drive way higher PID gains with a frame that is literally free of resonance like the apex and the same aggressive tune won't fly on other frames. I disagree on the blackbox being not a thing. Only way to figure problems, getting gyro tracking at it's best and clean out noise in order to achieve max gains is blackbox logging if we talk betaflight. At the moment you can't get a better frame than the Apex. It's literally completely free of resonance on raw gyro data, super easy to maintain and durable af.
You fly an Apex yourself?
@@MrSmithFPV Not only one. My freestyle rigs are all Apex.
@@marlin-fpv Sounds good. You fly them on 4s or 6s?
@@MrSmithFPV 6s xing 2208/1800kv. You can go 2207 if you use a hero session though.
@@marlin-fpv Ah, ok. Iam using a 4s setup with 2306 motors. Would be interested in your PIDs. But I think that there is a difference between 4s and 6s PIDs...
Never ask Mr. Steele, "How do these jeans look on me?"
Out of controll on this one.please.....air drag from an antenna on a quad. Quads are the definition of drag.
Mr Steele you are my favorite pilot. You sounded like a jealous little kid on this.
You can really see the difference between an engineer that has a hobby and shares his interests, versus a RUclipsr that sells drones.
@@creepcreeperston5394 yep and Steele is killing it and I bet dollars to donuts his bottom line is bigger than said engineer after the 4th quarter.
@@creationlabsinc.189 agreed and I don't give a %&$# about bottom lines.
@@creationlabsinc.189 "yeah he's an asshole, but at least he's rich" what is even your point here?
@@Bruno-cb5gk just that. He's a little fanboy
Steele seems outrageously butt-hurt by this frame. Are you really losing that many sales to it? This is the best ad I've seen yet for why people SHOULD buy the AOS5. Lets not forget he still flies analog because of "latency". LMAO. This really is just an old man complaining about new stuff being better than old stuff but that's just what steele does.
The latency issue is real. But yes yapping like a child is an issue too.
Seems a decent frame. But I don't wanna crash in a tree with that one...
Now THAT is something I didn't think of.
The aos is a decent frame, not the lightest 5inch I’ve built, but an easy build, plenty of space, and so far lived up to the vibration tests.
20 grams lighter than my apex. Same components. Maybe your scale is off
I think it's an amazing idea! I absolutely love the frame!
Same can be said for any designer quad 🤷
Let me fly one pack then proceed to trash a frame.. Well its not mine so it's pointless, it flies just like any other quad (including mine) but don't get it lol. Now I want one just to spite Steele lol 😆
:) Might be a sad place to be where one is so tied down with endorsements he really can't give slack for anything new from anybody else.
This chosen marketing strategy surely won't work for me.
Endorsements? He owns his brand. He’s the Mayweather jr. of fpv. No manager’s nor strings on this dude.
That’s why he’s livin pimp and doing what he loves
"The mouse...is gonna die at some point" XD
I feel a little bad for Chris to receive this kind of shitty pessimistic surface response on his hard work sure other designers work hard too but he has solved a point that takes the design to whole new level of perfection an area not many people were even aware of until he proved it.
Two days ago, i built a 5S quad in a 6 Inch APEX frame, with T-Motor F80.
With the filters and BL-Helisuite settings from Chris Rosser, this thing flies fantastic, as intended, good for everything, freestyle, race and cinematic.
Thank you so much for your videos, they are the biggest motivation, i can imagine!
Always if i think i can fly, i see Mr. Steele and i know, i'm still a beginner.
"Your brother went ham on the zip ties" lmfao 🤣
This quad seems great for engineers like the guy who built it. Like if you want a "perfect" flying quad at all times by the book this is cool. Id fuck it up in a day and not have the time or patience to keep it in shape. My quads are ok, but they get a lil too beat up to worry about perfection. I like all the concepts and think its an amazing quad as long as you dont crash. I clipped a tree today and got a bit tangled with a cidora frame and it dropped 30 feet on to stone, somehow the gopro just folded back and bent the props, no damage. Lucky day babyyyyyyy
it's a frame with cinematic recordings in mind. it's not a frame with bashing bandos in mind. basically made for no vibrations at all so the footage isn't ruined.
@@fawkeyes5111 No? Its designed to be very durable as well. Vibration management isn't for cinematic footage, its for flight performance.
maybe you get one built and tuned by him if you are going to go at it like this.
that build did not look ideal in many ways.
Everything he said is right, he’s not hating on the frame he’s hating on the concept. The most perfectly designed frame is only as good as the person who built it and after one crash that perfect tune is no longer perfect.
Some listened 😂 🙌
@@MrSteeleFPV Yeah they're called sycophants.............
A grumpy Steele with a flat earther moment.
Glad you uploaded a blog. It's been a while 👌
This video is definitely gonna be the biggest FPV topic for the next couple of weeks, can't wait to see the upcoming social network meltdown lol.
All aside, I'm actually a fan of both Mr. Steele and Chris Rosser, even though they're pretty much on the opposite side of the spectrum, build and feel vs. calculated engineering. Mr. Steele seems to be a bit too harsh this time but he's actually making some good points, Chris Rosser's design does seems to be a bit over engineered and too specific to his personal liking. Take antenna vibration for example, I just simply don't think having super short antenna to eliminate vibration is worth the cost of reduced range and penetration, Chris Rosser seems to do open field flying mostly so it's ok with him but that's not the case for quite a lot if not most of other FPV pilots. Also the AOS series frames do seem to have way to much joints and screws and sacrificing too much space and clearance for field serviceability, while Apex is just more "general" and user friendly. If we're talking about dedicated race quads then Chris Rosser's concept would probably make much more sense (and he does fly kinda racer-ish too, with slow stock rates and expo-ed throttle curve to get more throttle authorization in certain area) but since we're talking about freestyle quads... I'm leaning toward Mr. Steele's concept.
It's almost like trophy trucks vs. F1s. Both are great machines and both are dominating in their own category. But you just simply can "freestyle" a lot more with trophy trucks while you need a team of human being just to start up a F1 car and it's only good for doing fast laps on race tracks.
I don't think this will be any major controversy but I think you are on spot when it comes to comparing completely different approaches to the hobby.
Solid points. His wording was a little harsh, but sometimes thats how it is. I see a lot of comments about how this has changed their outlook on Steel but ive always go the impession that he is very forward and doesnt filter himself. He by no means seems like a bad guy possibly a little opninated on quads but given his skill level and knowledge its gonna be like that .Also to consider is he has a brand of his own. But at the end of the day fly what you wanna fly. I watch chris and steel, both are very knowledge, and great pilots. I would actually wanna see them swap quads and tune them then give them their respected re-tuned back. Both break down what their process and mind set for doing thing was.
Chris Rosser is a clever bloke, thermal dynamics engineer I believe in his day job. He does all the 3D prints for all the GoPros. If you want more space, longer stand-offs. A frontal impact on the front arm member will transfer a lot of the energy to the rear front arm member. The more square section style arms transfer a lot less vibes to the fuselage. By all accounts the camera mount takes big impacts, to a point. Also, this arm design reduce motor wobble vibes not increasing them. I believe this frame was fully tested in CAD before being produced too.
The whole idea of a low vibe frame is so you can achieve a much higher tune with less filtering. If you're not bothered about a smoking hot tune and more concentrated on, as you say in this vid, a smooth gopro tune, then yeah, maybe the AOS series isn't for you.
So much shade thrown in this video, I almost thought it was a DJI FPV review. firey-ass hot take!
I watched this video just because I enjoy seeing you fly bro.
think you might be overstating the hype, the impulse was identified as the model for vibration.
might not of gotten the chamfered kit with countersunk screws.
cleaner flight controller gyro is the design goal.
I thought the frame went together real well, super simple.
bought the other sizes to try them out. haven't finished any builds yet.
but the frame is solid. My alien is sexier...
I bought the chamfered and recessed screws version.
I put it on par with my Glide, Super G and Alien in terms of confidence in it.
I have the 5.5 and it's chamfered and it has countersunk screws , and it is incredible. It really is very good.
the arms on the apex arent even chamfered lmao
Should watch some of Chris's videos. He's an honest and smart guy helping community out big time. He is deffs not for everyone like a band flyer etc but alot of people are just pushing that edge atm trying to get these thing to fly like we never thought.
Personally I won't get it buy hey I like cheap n easy haha.
Put 4 motors to a potato, Mr Steele will make it fly like an APEX xD
Why is people hating on Steele as soon as he talks about a diffrent product??? He is not a rewiever he is an amazing pilot with very specific prefrences, he has refined his craft and therefore has a hard time seeing the point of "complicating" the things he doesn't have a problem with. You don't go to Mr Steele for product reviews, you come for hes insane pilot skill and/or personality! Do I care about his opinions? Yes! beacuase I admire him, that doesn't mean I always share his opinions. We are very different people with very different styles and prefrences and therefoe right for me doesn't mean right for him and vice versa.
You’re right and I agree that it does a lot of addressing problems that are not significant problems. However, I will defend the idea of having branched arms to cut down on resonance getting to the gyro because there is a speed where every motor operates that will cause higher amplitude vibration than other speeds. Making the branches of the arm each have different resonant frequencies will dampen vibrational energy through the entire system (think of beehive-shaped valve springs in racing engines). Does it fix anything? Probably not. Does it have a purpose? Theoretically.
seems like a ton of passive aggression coming from steele here, i get he has his endorsements and other business deals but lordy, it just seems really condescending and narcassistic. he's a good pilot but that doesn't void him of his responsibility to be a good guy lol.
He’s never claimed to be. Look up vids from 5+ years ago. He can get downright rude but he’s built a solid brand and living his dream. You don’t have to like the chef but he can make kickass soup.
No soup for you!!!
@@creationlabsinc.189 that’s what i just said, he’s a good pilot but that doesn’t void him of his responsibility to be a good guy. same thing. just because he makes good gear doesn’t mean he gets to be void of that responsibility.
a child at our facility passed away watching this
I can see that having the gap between the arms will result in the 2 peace bottom plate will brake as that looks very similar to the auskwad Monster Fram
Wow! Is this a Joke!
If everything flies great, no point buying an overpriced Apex I guess. Riiiight?
True :)
@@MrSteeleFPV You should not talk. At all. :)
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 oo damn....
@@MrSteeleFPV LOL Reminds me of Elon Musk saying that Tesla's stock was overpriced :)
You have just given me a great reason to buy the frame. I see that it is very good and you have become so envious.
I think Steele made a very clear statement. How perfect can you expect from a quad? Is it quad over skills or the other way around?
lol Steele, you were downright offended by this dude's frame. I guess frames, like so many other parts, are subjective to the style and skill of the pilot. You're old school, OG, and you have a lot of experience with what works well for you. For some, this frame may solve an issue they were having. For me, that frame looks heavy, but all that surface area is gonna act like a sail on those windy days. Good soft compensates for most vibration in cameras and 99% of frames out there don't have significant issues with vibrations affecting performance, so imo it's an overengineered frame "fixing" a problem that doesn't really exist. Like you said, if you're gonna make claims, you better be ready to back them up. lol
I'm so disappointed to see this. I feel like Steele is one of those pilots who could really have benefitted from the ultra-low filter delay that the AOS frame allows - if he gave it a real shot of course and knew to play to its strengths. Too bad his ego got in the way of unveiling some next-level Steele flying.
He can't benefit from it because he's not selling it
@@analjesus5002 literally this hes hating on every product possible but still selling extremly overpriced motors just because hes fortune enough to have a fuckton of fanboys.
Chris Rosser has actually sold me an Apex frame. In one of the first videos i've watched from him, he said the vibration performance of the Apex was great. Taking into account the availability, strengh, repairaibility of the frame, I went for an Apex.
The only problem with my Apex 5" is that I can't fly 5226 props with it ! Other than that it works incredibly well for me.
aesthetics, repair and durability are more important than clean gyro data. 100% agree. having a quad that is easy to tune is super great, especially if it boosts flight times, but yeah
i'll keep looking for a good looking 4inch freestyle frame then, Avant Quads and RekonFPV have my eyes but not my wallet just yet.
it's chris' first frame
basically a prototype, trying to reinvent the wheel
as every new frame designer does, i did it myself
but steele is way past the prototypes
all the iterations later of building many quads and breaking them has led to a formula that works very very well, with every single aspect considered
and the apex is asthetically much more pleasing :)
if chris keeps building and breaking and designing new and building and breaking, ...
he will get to a similarly refined formula
There is a lot you learn from frame design that only experience will teach you
Tittle should have been "Steele Rips the Rosser frame" hahahha
I love the honesty . Dude your a true hero
It's a cool frame. It reminds me of the Tinyhawk Freestyle with the A-frame arms.