NEW 4WDs VS OLD 4WDs
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- Опубликовано: 5 май 2023
- NEW 4WDs VS OLD 4WDs have new 4wds lost ability to be a reliable vehicle in harsh conditions
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Some truth in what you’re saying, for sure - but when 90% of these new 4WD’s will never get off the tar, and 99% will never do any serious 4WD’ing, it’s hardly a surprise that manufacturers do what they do. That’s why the aftermarket 4WD industry is booming.
Is also why anyone who knows anything about real 4WDing is restoring and rebuilding 4WD's from the 90's like the 80 series. And why they are now so hard to find and expensive.
Exactly.
4x4 manufacturers aren't targeting die hard 4x4 enthusiasts.
It's about towing for work, towing a caravan, driving to the snow, a cockpit like an office mid week.
But then it can actually drive on sand and stones on your annual family trip if need be...
@@gibbethoskins8621 - computer says "NO!" is another big gripe. I don't want my vehicle to be a Windows box with wheels, complete with a subscription to "over-the-air" updates. My mates' Suzuki Jimny refused to start because of the engine immobiliser "security" system. Required the NRMA to put it on a flat bed and transport it to the nearest auto-sparky. If this "charlie-carp" happened during a trout trip to the high country . . . . it would have been very annoying indeed.
Yes. And all those nice screens and "advanced" 4x4 systems sell cars on the show room floor
I think what old mate is saying is basically that we've shot past the point at which electronic aids make sense. The ATRAC in my FJ cruiser combined with factory diff lock is where it should have stopped. Mechanical drive select with just enough electronic trickery to get you out of trouble at the push of a single button. It's perfect. "SAND MODE ENGAGED!" what the hell is that even supposed to do?
I prefer older 4WDs(late 1990s and back) just because they are a lot easier to work on & repair than the newer ones. Plus, like you mentioned, older 4WDs tend to be more mechanical than electrical, meaning that they can take a beating and keep on trucking.
Why not a 4Runner ?
suzuki say they wanna keep the jimny as a real offroader for ever
I wish they existed. Unfortunately I'm American
@jared black go buy one in Mexico and get it registered in the US. I saw one in Texas with Texas plates not too long ago.
Edit: I take it back, it had Mexican plates.
@@XA-lm5oz and whilst at it, import a gwagon body kit for it. Damn fits so good
This is why I went with the 2023 Jimny. One of the last few cars I have seen that isn't riddled with electronics and is really easy to work on mechanically. Not to mention its an amazing 4x4 stock
watch out going 4wd or going through a river.. that thing will roll 100%
Price went trough the roof in the last 12 months.
@@lilalali6753 The wonders of supply and demand at work. Find yourself a reliable dealer who wont scalp you. I was able to walk away with mine only 35K brand new compared to others 44k+
Good choice
@ImJustWantToComment That problem is kinda fake news
I totally agree with you. A real 4x4 should be almost agricultural. Thats why I love the 78 series and the older 80 series. Your still showing some great content Ronnie.
Japanese mini trucks are a great example of this.
Love my 1991 80 Series Land Cruiser. Simple, no electronics and absolutely reliable. Not to mention incredibly capable off-road.
Good luck during the accident. We will come to the funeral to mock.
@@TheLukaszpg that was unnecessary
@@adamhatton7579 he is just jealous he doesn’t have one.
"Simple, no electronics" really? no electronic ignition or electronic fuel injection? You've got a carburetor, points and condenser? ABS?
@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus of course it has some electronics. Ignition, lights etc. I’m referring to a lot of the modern garbage that causes more problems then it’s worth if you really use a vehicle.
100% agree. Very well said. Most current 4wd ARE soft roaders. Way too much tech and unreliable. My twin locked 92 GQ Patrol has been bulletproof for 11 years. Many hard trips, many hard tracks and beach trips. Never had any issues. Anything minor can be fixed with basic hand tools 👌🏼
I was talking to Jonno and Graham about this at camp a couple weeks ago! It’s made “wheelers” lazy offroad. Replacing old traditional 4wding fundamentals like airing down and choosing a line, with comfort and buttons. In my opinion it contributes to the damage of tracks too.
In some ways I agree but then the electronics also mean that there's less wheelspin than you would get with an older unlocked vehicle.
We did an 4wd course that had mostly newer stuff and an older Tdi Land Rover.
We did a gully crossing and the Land Rover got stuck in spite of churning everything up and needed to be recovered whilst the other vehicles just cruised through it without issue even though a wheel each end was off the deck.
Gave the Land Rover owner a go in mine and he loved it.
Fools will always find a way to dig crap up imo.
traction control definitely makes wombat holes in tracks. lockers or even one locker are best they actually knock the tops off wheel spin holes and smooth them out a bit.
The damage to tracks I mention refers more to perhaps corrugations with the fact that newer vehicles are far more comfortable and the condition of the track translates far less into the cab as appose to what it would in say an old 60 or GQ. So for the sake of comfort you’re more likely to see someone airdown in their older vehicle for a stretch of gravel or sand rather than the driver of the newer vehicle who has a far comfier ride and can fly along at speed and not notice it. Adding to the damage of the track by not having a softer pressure and driving to conditions. Generally speaking.
@@westralianoffroad Yep valid point.
In my case the suspension that I have put on it mean that corrugations are a bloody nightmare.
Great everywhere else but not so much on corrugations especially when unloaded.
By the same token I really don't get people driving hundreds of k's on them anyway.
Each to their own as always though.
@@oldbloke204 yeah mate for those reasons exactly my comment is very general I guess.
100 percent agree on 10 speed box and lane assist.
This is why the Ineos Grenadier is such a brilliant invention in this time, as all manufacturers are moving towards overally complicating things, they are making a simple robust 4x4. Wish more manufacturers would do the same.
Unreliable
I don’t own one but from all I read, it’s at least as complicated as others on the market today- you must be a owner who knows more than I do or come from an alternate universe…. For vehicles sold new today, perhaps only the 70 series can make that claim with a straight face
@aron ??? I think it's about finding the balance between old school and new school but at the same time using the principles of "4x4, offroad, work use" as the driving factor when making decisions. Now apply that across the board of components, eg. AXLES, SUSPENSION SET UP, ENGINE, DRIVE TRAIN, TIRES, LOCKERS ETC, you will see why the Ineos makes logical sense vs manufacturers who priotise other items, eg fancy screens and complicated engines like the hot v.
70 series, for example, has the basic ingredients, but then you need to dish out at least 30-40k to make it decent offroad and on the road. Question is, can toyota provide a better value package out of the box? I think it's the companies like Ineos that will drive this change.
Pretty expensive for what they are but yeah they do the work. Billionaires passion project but I would love to put one through the cape or something and see what it’s like first hand. Land Rover blew their own foot off with the new defender
@Louis Diepold it is expensive, but we have to take into consideration the amount of stuff it comes with from the factory.
For example, in NZ, the lc300 is $149k for the Gr sport model. After paying that, you will have to get a bullbar, upgrade wheels, and suspension. Wiring done for a fridge and lights, winch, rubber mats, seat covers, rocksliders. (Lockers and standard on this model). You're looking at almost 160k vs. a similar speced Greandier is max 120-130k. Which may not be a bad deal.
I agree. Here in Africa outside of maybe South Africa roads are not consistently marked. SO lane assistance would be absolutely useless even in your daily drive. In addition, the road culture is absolutely different with motor bikes, hand carts, pedestrians, cyclists and everyone on the road, most of the driver assist road tech in light of all these constantly changing infractions/factors becomes completely useless... There is also a running joke that most of these new 4WDs spend most of their time on top of 80's and 90's flatbed lorries being ferried to the garage... A good number of the new vehicles don't even have enough tolerance to handle the quality of fuel here.
"Comfort and convenience is put over durability and ruggedness" I couldn't agree more. However, there's also some designed obsolescence built in now as well. I bought a Ram1500 last year, and ram says that the transmission has "lifetime fluid". However, ZF ,who makes the transmission, recommends that you replace the trans fluid every 50,000mi (80,000Km). So a lot of the manufacturers don't want your vehicle to last anymore.
Automakers play that game now to tout "lowest cost of ownership" by deleting or prolonging maintenance intervals. Ford used to say replace rear differential gear oil every 50,000mi or something like that, now it's "fluid replacement not required, lubricant will last the life of the vehicle," yet it's the same design of axle with the same gear oil. Just like we now see "lubed for life" tie rods, balljoints, universals, etc...
@@abpsd73 previous model years of my truck had grease zerks on the ball joints and a couple other spots. There isn't a single grease zerks on the 2022 ram 1500
Dissenting opinion. I'm an old man. I grew up with carbs and points, manual hubs. This stuff broke all the time. Over the years I've seen electronic ignition, fuel injection and electronic ABS and traction control come onto vehicles. This stuff is mostly trouble free.
Older vehicles needed new plugs, points and condenser once a year, carbs needed to be rebuilt or serviced every 2 to 3 years, manual hubs needed to be serviced every year or two.
My current truck (2013 Tacoma) has been going for 10 years now and almost nothing has needed maintenance. Gas and oil, tires occasionally. The reliability of the electronics, on this truck at least, has been beyond reproach.
I've been listening to car enthusiasts and off roaders make this exact same argument for 40 years. Meanwhile cars and trucks just keep getting more and more reliable and dependable.
Direct fuel injection does not lubricate the valves so they wear over time. And these are fine till you get some electrical fault - then you could have big trouble. Sounds like you have been lucky.
@@DavidNotSolomon My truck does not have direct injection, it has port injection.
The point of my post is that the electronic stuff is more reliable than the mechanical systems it replaced. It's been that way since the first electronic ignitions replaced points and condensers. Fuel injection is more reliable than carburetors. I have never in 40 years of owning them had to fix an electronic ignition. Fuel injection typically goes at least 10 years (if you get clean gas and change filters). Electronic fuel injection is easier to tune than a carb, no messing with needles and jets, no syncing carbs, just hook up your laptop and adjust.
There's been no downside to the electronics added to vehicles from my point of view.
@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus Well I haven't experienced problems with carby's - but most of my vehicles have been diesels - the car I had the longest time with a carby was a HQ holden from the 70's - never had a problem with that engine, never had to touch the carby, I used to change the plugs and points myself, I even cooked that engine to the point where I could not turn it off, but filled it with water and it went fine for years, I put it on gas, and there was a problem where it caught on fire, changed the leads and off it went again. That sort of simplicity and durability you just don't get with modern vehicles - and I pretty much could do everything myself. Most of my other vehicles have been/are diesel - no electronics in the 1978 one I had for 20+ years - took it around Australia twice, plenty of serious 4WDing in the mountains, snow, sand, mud - all you ever had to do was change the injectors every 10 years. I am not saying there a no benefits to electronics, but I am not sure that they are as great as you make out.
@@DavidNotSolomon I don't get you. You tell me how you had to change points and condenser, wires and plugs, while an electronic ignition, coil on plug style, can run perfectly for a decade, or more, with NO attention, and yet your still convinced the older system is somehow superior and more reliable??? What?
I agree 100%. The new vehicles are actually made for the engineers that designed them as they do not go offroad, we call them mall crawlers. When there is no parking they can hit a button and park on the sidewalk. Now they feel good as they can justify the purchase of a useless 4wd. As you mentioned, keep the old tech like lockers and just work on the ground clearance and ride quality.
As a former Disco owner… and now a 200series owner… i’m looking at the new Grenadier as my next offroader for these very reasons…. Back to basics with enough comfort and YOU can actually drive the car not the computer… I’m with you Ronny 100%.
Agree absolutely. "Just down the road" is a long way from anywhere in Australia; we need mechanical, tough, reliable, just like you said. Love it, thanks Ronny.
Many places like that in the western United States. Places where it is days of walking before you will even see a road.
Couldn’t have put it better myself. I just came back from a trip in my 41yo Landcruiser and it didn’t miss a beat and went through everything it was pointed at whilst I saw quite a few more modern cars including a 70 series btw being towed. I also think a lot of it has to do with weight tbh. My HJ47 comes in at 2.3 t whilst the 79 was up near 4t fully loaded. This has to affect reliability no matter how you look at it.
I have an 81 BJ60. The thing still drives fine, needs a refresh though.
Back in 2000 while crossing the Gun Barrel highway I accidentally drove off a 3 foot high wash away at 80kph in my fully loaded ‘82 Toyota Blizzard. Apart from the Hawthorne undies afterwards everything was fine! Later on 80ks of hardcore corrugations did snap my rear view mirror off… 🤷♂️ loved that old diesel beastie, absolutely bulletproof!!
LC 300 should also be red, so much focus on luxury and tech, no kdss and lockers in any of the models, apart from the GR sport. So many sensors left right center. That's its even worse than my defender.
I mean, they have the Prado, Highlander, and lexus, which are all suv and family cars, at least keep the Landcrusier original to its roots. I'm afraid it may have the same future as the Pajero.
I 100% agree. Here in the USA, all of the four-wheel drive market has pretty well gone up in smoke due to the automotive industry going to electronic when it comes to the drivetrain.
Jeep Wrangler with the Rubicon package still offers a manual transmission, but not with the diesel anymore. You still get manual shift transfer case, but not manual locking hubs. You can also have manual front and rear lockers with the push of a button, and also electronic sway bar disconnects. Unfortunately, it is electronic controlled.
Ford used to be the best industry standard for the four-wheel drive, full size trucks or the F-body trucks over here. That no longer exists with the electronics being placed inside of their trucks. As of 2023, all their transfer cases are now standard electronic dial shift instead of the floor shift that was standard on them since the 1960s onward with the introduction of four-wheel drive on them. Gone also is the manual front locking hubs. And they already threw away the manual transmission a few years ago in favor of their electronic shift 10 speed automatic transmissions with the hill descent control. I do like the hill descent control, but again it is electronic. A good manual transmission with strong, sturdy gears and a stout clutch can still go a long way off-road. I just recently saw a couple over in Australia driving a brand new F-body Super Duty truck with canopy on it, driving on beaches of Australia. It got stuck and bogged down with its pull behind caravan trailer. It ended up being that the four-wheel drive system was not engaging on the transfer case up front that was electronic controlled for the vacuum tubes. Again proof that electronic is not better. Had they been driving an older F-250 or F350 from 1999 through 2002, they still would have had the option of a manual shift floor mounted transfer case as well as manual locking front hubs. Not to mention they still could have bought a manual shifting transmission on any of the engines from those years on the full size Super Duty truck.
Dodge RAM has pretty much just gone the way of the cuckoo bird. They are now doing turn dial transmissions on their dashboards and giving up any use of manual transmissions or steering column hand lever transmissions at all. Pretty much their transfer cases are going probably the same directions. And they already got rid of their manual locking front hubs clear back in the 1990s. And General Motors pretty much the same boat after 1991 model years. All of their trucks started ditching manual floor lever transfer cases and got rid of all their manual locking front hubs. A lot of the new General Motors trucks all have push button transmissions up on the dashboard instead of hand lever transmissions on the steering column. And you'll never be able to buy a manual transmission with any of their vehicles again.
The last of the true four-wheel drive trucks here in the United States were built back in the 1990s with Ford, GM, and Dodge. Known as the OBS or old body style trucks, these had true four-wheel drive systems with manual transmissions, manual transfer cases, and manual front locking hubs. All these trucks are easily modified and can safely run 35-in tires with mild suspension lifts in order to make it happen. Almost every single one of them can run 31-in tires with no suspension lifts on any of them either. This also included Jeep which had the tried and true Wrangler with the YJ or TJ series and the XJ series Cherokee. They also had manual transmissions and manual transfer cases. And they could be easily converted to front as well as rear manual locking hubs for their axles.
Land Rover pretty much is the industry leader in electronic four-wheel drive systems, but they have offended much of their market by eliminating the original Land Rover Defender with their new one. The original Land Rover with its aluminum body was the industry standard of true diehard four-wheel drive that even Jeep at one time strived to create with their Rubicon package. The original Land Rover Defender had perfect suspension, manual transmissions, manual transfer case, and reliable off-road abilities with the addition of a snorkel. No longer exists. I would no longer buy a Land Rover, if I had that choice. Toyota is also going down a dangerous path with some of its new trucks, including the new Trail Hunter edition on the 2024 Tacoma. It will come standard with 33-in tires and a rear locker as well as manual disconnect sway bars that are electronically controlled. No manual transmission but a off-road programmed electronic shift transmission as well as the electronic transfer case. Keyword, electronic. Everything on the new Toyota is ALSO becoming susceptible to off-road failure when exposed to water or mud. True die hard off road enthusists will still prefer the older Toyota trucks and SUVs versus the new ones. Same thing to be said for Nissan and Isuzu, as well as Mitsubishi. New might be nice on the highway where you need safety, but the older manual systems which are easily repaired by a bush mechanic, are much MORE sturdier and less susceptible to breakage or electronic failure due to exposure of mud, water or dust from sand like the electronic ones are nowadays. You said it perfectly, limp mode is not acceptable on a trail when your vehicle has an electronic failure.😂
great post mate, thanks for taking the time to write all of that!
I sometimes like to think that the patrol pickup is a spiritual succesor to 80s american 4x4 trucks, like for example it has a big 4.5L OHV carbed straight 6 , much like the old trucks, and the stout frame, cast iron manual transmission, manual shift T-case , giant 9.25" solid front axle and 10.25" FF rear axle , manual roll down windows, no traction control, no difflocks, glass headlights and even down to the classic brand lettering on the rear tailgate. The only modern things i could think of is ABS and factory rear LSD
Definitely agree with you on this. I worry that the next generation of drivers will not know what it is to not have the assist modes, and will become reliant on them on and off road. What happens when the assist modes go off line, as you mentioned in the video? On road, it could be very bad, as they won't have the skills to control the car. Off road, they get stuck.
I think the Toyota 4Runner here in the US is the last body on frame SUV still sold, and worry what the next generation 4Runner will be. I'm glad I got one while I still can.
I love how 'Sand mode' includes a depiction of a saguaro cactus. Saguaro's are only found in the Sonoran Desert and they do not grow in sand.
Good catch. I always appreciate botanical accuracy. However, it could have been a Cardon cactus which do grow in sand in Mexico.
@@mark2073 That's awesome Mark! Maybe we can start one of those never solved internet questions like "Ported vs Manifold vacuum" or "Front vs Rear Locker" or "IFS vs solid front axles" ! Haha. Take care mate! "Saguaro vs Cardon".
100 series landcruiser is peak. The pinnacle of modern enough to be safe, reliable, and immensely capable out of the box.
I just bought a Jeep Wrangler and although it's more crude than my previous Amarok it makes me so damn happy everytime I drive it and now I get the urge to explore every track I see. And with the trail system in the rear it took me 20 minutes to set it up really effectively for overlanding. And it has the ZF8 transmission which I love.
advice..if its not a rubicon,,it will break..fact..amaroks are not 4x4rs.. watch u.s. ytube on how to fix,,your jeep, hope you can weld..they have d35 diffs, weak as piss..most of the steering braketry,,is half welded & sht thin..hope its a 4 door,,cos the 2 doors roll real easy, & uncomfortable as hell.
I have a 2022 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon. Love it. No infrared parking sensors, no radar assisted cruise control and no computer assisted modes other than 2H, 4A, 4L and 4H. Lockers front and rear with disconnect sway bar up front. At first I missed the pavement creature comforts, but now I’m so glad the microchip shortage caused Jeep to build many Rubicons like this. Price was still high but the options were steel Rubicon bumper that was winch ready, factory bed lining, hardtop…. Stuff you want to use, while toned down on any creature comforts. It still has a cold weather package and towing package but the interior has manual cloth seats.
I don’t think I would be buying new again. I do miss my 90s SUVs that just seemed to work all the time, including a Mitsubishi Montero, and a Discovery 2, that while sucking down premium petrol, overall it off-roaded pretty well. It’s flaw was being pretty boring.
Even Isuzu Troopers of yesteryear were tough as nails. The Saudis drove 3 vehicles into the barren quarter primarily in the 90s. Land Cruisers, Troopers and Monteros/Pajeros. They may have had stripped down interiors for transporting people but their mechanical parts worked well and many miles were logged on those 3 models.
@@davidgdraper6269 the sway bar disconnect is awesome! I try to flex on everything I see now!
@@harrywalker968 Front passenger seating is identical 2 door or 4 door and the 35 front axle is tough enough for what it is with stock tires and common sense. Any short wheel base vehicle is more tippy than a long wheel base vehicle, again common sense and know your vehicles limits and it does fine.
100% Agreed, I have a 2nd Gen Pajero, love it! The undercarriage from the factory is so well-tuned, no hard time steering or unstable while driving 140km/h on highway after 210,000 km.
And while off-roading, the undercarriage was hit multiple time, all I need to do is take off the metal plate covering transmission and diffs and hammer it back.
p.s. Saw a 2nd Gen Pajero years back, it was in north part of Japan and the undercarriage was rusted out, the frame was too rusted that it can't even pass the inspection(sorry, no number plate). But it still runs after 800,000 km.
we love Mk2 Pajeros here too in Central Europe and have to say you over there are lucky with them regardin dry climate -here in Europe they have a bad reputation of legendarily rusting away, undercarriages breaking and so on. I have not seen mine in more than 2 years as i had to find a workshop for a full undercarriage refurbishing (lots of cutting, lots of welding then sent to a galvanizing shop to keep it that way :D ) , by the time i get it back its price will be comparable to a 5-10 years old car :)
Thoughts on the new Grenadier? Solid axles, lockers, and a switch to turn off all the sensors, beeps and bongs for off-road mode. Only time will tell but all signs seem to indicate it should be fairly capable.
That’s why I am buying one
I was expecting something simple and rugged which sounds great but it's the price I'm concerned about now, I think even the base model might be way too expensive.
Luckily I got in on the old price. It’s not cheap but cheaper than equally spec’s big Toyotas
I have a reservation but we still have to wait a while longer in the U.S. Pricing here should be announced soon though. I agree it sounds like it’s going to be expensive but also with @druidstone that once you equally spec some others (e.g., Wrangler Rubicon), the pricing starts getting about the same. I’ve had my FJ since it was released (March 2006) and it’s still going strong. If the Grenadier holds up as well, I’ll be ok with having paid it!
I’d buy the Chinese Tank 300 over it… easy to get parts at good price
I'll put this into perspective for everyone;
A 79 series is so awesome because of its simplicity that it needs a rear axle correction to fix its 50mm narrower rear wheel track, a decent clutch if you're heavy and using it to tow, a tune because it's gutless, and let's not even get into the interior side of things.
A gu patrol is awesome at "4wding" and a compromise at everything else.
A LR defender is awesome at "4wding" and a compromise at everything else.
A 200 series is awesome after you fix the air box, add some lockers, tune it and get a torque converter lock up kit.
A 80 series is awesome at "4wding" after you spend $20k bracing the chassis and setting it up to actually be a decent 4wd.
The reailty is that although vehicles are getting more electronics they're also more reliable. Next time on the highway take note of the vehicles broken down on the side of the road, most are older vehicles. The new ranger and 300 are new platforms and they're the first series, usually it takes a couple of series to iron out all the bugs before they're good. Evolution, it's a thing.
Ummm that 10 speed in the Ranger has been over heating for years!!! Not just in the new gen Ranger.
@@Rob_FJ Fit a aftermarket cooler problem solved
@4x4 Camping and Adventures They should come with one from the factory.
@4x4 Camping and Adventures the problem with Ford is they have a record, fact, for terrible after market sales support.
Most people "prefer" old 4WDs, but in reality they can't AFFORD new ones.
From the U.S. here. I've always been a fan of Toyota's. There's just something about the older, simple 4x4's that is incredibly hard to beat! I had an '83, completely restored, with a lift and bigger tires that was like driving a mini tank around but sold it when i got married to have more room. My '89 r runner was an absolute beast! Slight lift, very aggressive tires, all the gear for offroad and could seat 5 comfortably, it was a fantastic rig but i couldn't haul lumber and ladders for my work. So i upgraded to a 2004 Toyota Tacoma. I honestly didnt expect it to be such an amazing 4 wheel drive. I honestly feel that for Toyota trucks, this was the peak! It was the last year of the smaller body style, so i can squeeze between rocks and trees others can't, it still has a J shifter for the 4 wheel drive although i miss manuel locking hubs, its nice not to have to get out in a blizzard haha. It came from the factory with a solid rear axle and locker. Its new enough to have a good aftermarket offroad support and parts availability. It has so much more power than any of my older trucks ever dreamed of and best of all is how incredibly comfortable it is inside! I've taken it on every road ive 4wheeled with my old rigs and it blows thwm out of the water on how amazing it is offroad! I always say that it will go more places than i want to.
Oh, and ive owned a few Jeeps also. Extremely capable offroad and extremely unreliable. They always break down or just plain break at the worst possible moment 😂
4WD buyers: modern 4x4s have too many electronics that could go wrong and break easily
Also 4WD buyers: jeez, the 70 series cruiser is far too expensive, has no features and drives like a tractor
This is why I prefer early to mid 90s jdm. With the size restrictions in Japan they were considered luxury vehicles, so they had all the options that were available at the time. Also, most modern amenities are available aftermarket, so one day I'll get around to installing a backup camera, blind spot monitors, etc. Hell, im pretty sure I can even install lane assist and the like. Lol it's almost as if cars are inherently modular.
This is why the 80/100 series are king.
Good luck during the accident. We will come to the funeral to mock.
@@TheLukaszpg You won't make it to the funeral as you'll be stuck on the side of the road bogged listening to warning beeps drinking a soy laté adjusting your man bun
@@gibbethoskins8621 LOL.
This is why I love my 2016 Wrangler. Minimal electronics. Mostly simple as a brick.
Brother has one of those things and it was the worst vehicle he has every owned.
Capable off road for sure but was forever fixing something on it in spite of it having a very easy life.
Hadn't even done 100k kms.
@@Rob_FJ Yeah even his mates who had them and were mechanics said the same thing.
Not sure how fantastic an off road vehicle is that can get to places others can't go and then breaks down is really.🤣🤣
I have 2011 RC Colorado with a 4JJ1 motor set up for towing. done 280,000 Km. I totally agree with you about sensors etc. Pain in the arse. Crankshaft position sensor, the EGR the throttle control motor. I'm retired and going up to Karijini next year. We don't do serious off-roading but have done quite a bit of towing off the bitumen with no trouble.Keep up the good work 😊
You make some good points, Ronny. It would be good to hear your thoughts on EV offroaders - on paper they make sense - one motor per wheel, as long as the software is running ok, you wouldn’t need any locking differentials or solid axles. Regarding the newer 4wd, the offroad community is less than 1%, so no company is ever going to design something for the bush, unless it comes at a premium cost
EV off-roader lol. Junk what do you do when the battery dies and your off the beaten path.
Heavy
@@thewoodsman5261 same thing you do when you puncture your gas tank or run out of fuel.
@@Iamlateforcurfew I have skid plates and jerry cans.
You will never sell me on electric vehicles, they aren't environmentally friendly, they aren't functional and I have better things to do with my time rather than wait hours on end for the battery to charge when I'm traveling
@@thewoodsman5261 tbh mate, you do what works for you and makes you happy. Nobody's asking you to buy an EV if you don't want to. Not really my problem how you spend your money
Agreed. I have one of each. For harder trails I run a 83 Cherokee. Tons with lockers, Atlas, original engine, carb, leaf springs all around. It's simple and it works. But I also have a Colorado ZR2. Very nice on the easier trails. It is comfy and reliable. It's my daily driver and 'take the wife with me' wheeler.
I too have a ZR2 Bison Diesel. I love the fact that even though it’s much newer than the 2001 S-10 ZR2 I had for 11 years, which was as tough as I’d want it to be on the mostly deep sand off road in my area and some tricky ruts in other areas… that this new ZR2 doesn’t have all the bells and whistles outside the cab. Same electronic style 4wd shifting but now front and rear lockers instead of just the rear auto-locker. All I do is fully turn off the traction control and ESC and it stays off and drives just like my old ZR2 and my 2006 Wrangler Rubicon I had. Solid for the kind of off-roading available to me.
A few years back I was looking at a 'newer' off-roader, but after a quick chat with a gent from ARB I've decided to get get an old 4x4 and accept it's lack of safety and comfort for greater reliability and off-roadability.
He pointed out that, on some vehicles, hitting your bullbar against something fairly solid, be it a tree, rock or embankment, it can set off the airbags and throw it into 'limp home' mode. As he queried me, what would you do if your 100km into the bush, and it's taken every horsepower to get there, how are you going to get out with half power?
This is exactly why I’m keeping my 2006 70 Series FTE Cruiser forever.
Exactly why I bought a 2022 Jimny and waiting on my Grenadier due this year.
Can't say I agree with you on this one. Just today I had my stock 300 out, factory rims and tyres, with the family on soft sand. Lowered my tyre pressure and that was it. No sand mode, no funky settings, nothing needed. Just drove on had a great day and drove off later. A stock 300 was taken across the Simpson by one of the journo crews. Sure it was a tame crossing, but it was showroom stock. I don't know much about the ranger but I'm pretty sure everyone had the same issues with the 200 and Y62, and even the 100. It's just the way it is.
At the end of the day we just grow to accept the faults of the older vehicles or let the aftermarket crew fix it. How many mods do you have on your 79? What about Torbs?
My point is, to compare an old 4wd with a new one is to compare them bog stock. Not fair to compare something after market triple locked on 35 inch muddies with a 2 inch lift and purposeful gvm upgrade to a Jimny with 100kms on the clock
You seen John Cadogan’s latest video on the 300 and it’s oil consumption? Worse again - Toyota’s response? Doesn’t make for nice viewing if you’re the owner of a brand spankin new 300
Edit: I love Toyotas, my wife and I both drive Toyotas (HDJ100 / Kluger) and up until this point I’ve refused to buy any other brand of vehicle
@@jimmyjones2426 yep I've seen it. I've had my 300 for over 6 months now and don't have an oil consumption issue. That bloke is the RUclips version of A Current Affair, all his videos are the same.
@@kwequay5605 I agree he’s a bit of a strange cat. But Toyota wouldn’t release a statement if there wasn’t good reason. And after the 2.8 DPF debacle I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could kick ‘em
@@jimmyjones2426 I understand the dpf risks but they lost that class action and are unlikely to put themselves in the same position twice. If I have to choose between a dpf and adblue I'll choose dpf every time. When I ordered my 300 there was a significant national shortage of adblue, and in the Euro 5 models they do require adblue. If the second gen requires it I would prefer to just keep my dpf model until it dies.
I don't trust Toyota dealerships any more than I trust any other dealership, but I don't believe the engineers at Toyota, or Toyota Japan would risk their reputations making the same mistake more than once.
Time will tell if I am a fool but in the mean time I am loving my vehicle
@@kwequay5605 sounds like you’re more schooled up on the topic than I am mate and I’m sure you did your research prior to handing over your hard-earned. Fingers crossed the 300s are good for half a million k’s like all Landcruisers should be 💪🏽
Ronny can’t wait for your Ineos review as it has a 4WD mode that turns off all those annoying safety warnings. Then doubles down with wading mode that shuts off the fan belt and other non-essential electrics. 🎉
Still a 4wd designed for soft roading.
@@Robert-cu9bmyou should go and have a look underneath one... Looks like a beefed up GU patrol underneath, 900kg payload from stock.
Yea, I agree it must be made to compete with the RAV4!
@Jon Grall I have high hopes too, and I must say without those Guinea pigs nothing would ever get off the ground sometimes just got to bite the bullet. Had mine 6 weeks now and I must admit to the odd oink of pleasure as I drive it.
@donovangregory0 I think he is just referring to the fact it's a complete bmw driveline and I'm pretty sure being as basic as it is inside isn't going to make up for anything when the engine needs a BMW computer to do proper diagnostics. It's an awesome car, just not a fan of the engines.
I have a 1986 LN65 2.4D Hilux. You can fix anything on it trackside. No annoying sensors or electrics. Only issue is it's a snail on the black top, but when you get off road it's basically equal to the others. Cheers mate love your work 👍 🐕🤠
It’s about time that someone said this aloud.
Well said Ronny, couldn't agree more, what you have said is being reflected in the price of the 'good' 2nd hand 4wd's, in some instances people are paying more for the good old ones than the crap new ones. The days when 'oh it must be better becuase its newer' just don't hold any more.
i got a new 2023 ISUZU D-Max a couple of months ago and i think it is fantastic off road, took it to jenowan hills 4wd park last month and i was impressed with how well it kept up with the other 4wd's in our convoy considering the only mod it has is a UHF and it was my first time 4wding.
I'd say the Isuzu is the exception to the rule and probably my next car
I agree with you. Thanks for this episode, my son and I were talking about this very topic last week when we test run a LC 300GR.
Agreeing with this , thankyou.
I have 1951, 61, & 74 Land-Rovers. 74 being converted into campervan soon.
Because i keep them full of grease and oil,
I have less trouble than most people.
I am also the mechanic and repair with care.
Can't help but agree with this video. Purchased a 1999 LC 105 during lockdown. The last of the full size wagons with solid front & rear axles. It's my forever vehicle, the goal is to keep it maintained and running forever, they just aren't built the same.
Good for you, I'm presently looking at 100 or 105's for the same goal.
same here. purchased last month. 1899 -105.
it’s fricken awesome. non turbo diesel. doesn’t go fast. but goes everywhere.
Make sure you carefully seal the roof seals otherwise rust will start above the windscreen and at the top of the barn doors. My old 105 was probably the best all over 4WD I’ve ever driven.
Still look great imo.
You make great points Ronny! I participated in the survey and I would rather spend big bucks to restore and modify a 1970's 80's vehicle than buy a newer plastic electronic vehicle. They're shit and not equipped for the tough tracks.
That's why I don't sell my 105 series. After I swapped a 1HD-FT engine on it, it will be my forever vehicle.
awesome honest guide Ronny. Glad I subscribed to your channel
I really do agree with your comments on the Tech. I've watched your videos and others on all the crap they put in, how difficult it is to enter different modes or disable things and I fully agree it makes usage difficult and annoying. K.I.S.S is the best way in my opinion. I drive an 02 NM Pajero, 3.5L V6 and while it has independent suspension front & rear I don't have any of the mod cons such as Traction Control, Lane assist or any of that crap. I have a decent LSD in the rear, 4H (AWD), 4HLC & 4LLC which are my proper 4wd modes. It is basic, easy to use and no BS. I get Traction Control works great in some cases but do know in the later Pajero's people often complain about not being able to turn it off when driving sand etc. I think most of the 4wd's these days are being made more of the Grey Nomad's, more for those that want to stick to the paved roads and tow a caravan not actually take them and use them as a 4wd is originally designed. They seem to be designing them for people that never need to actually engage 4wd.
I believe there’s still some room for improvement in traction. A system where you get twin locked traction but allows slip to stop blowing cv’s and axles
I love my Bronco, full frame front n rear lockers, 4 wheel disc, built 4.0L & A4LD. Up grades, LED lights, front n rear cameras. My daily driver for many years.
I just bought a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited to build my ultimate off-road rig. You are spot on !
I hear what you’re saying Ronnie and as both an engineer and a mechanic, I understand your concerns. But the conditions that you’re Referring to really only exist in Australia perhaps parts of South Africa. We don’t have those extreme conditions in North and South America, or Europe. But for those limited extreme environments where it’s a long way to get help or repairs or parts that a fully mechanical system just makes sense; also for somebody on a limited budget a fully mechanical system is something they can fix by themselves on the side of the track.
Agree, Ronnie!!! All the new 4x4s aren’t built for the bush. Weaker chassis, electronic junk, poor drivelines, computerized traction junk, and super low body panels for bashing… your chart is perfect and the manufacturers need to see it! Also, hard pass on electronic parking brake buttons for off-road - that’s an immediate deal breaker and is taking the industry by storm. Preach!!! 👍👍
Love my Wrangler TJ 99! Simple, mechanical, and super reliable!!
So I just read the comment below where I am writing now. Brent says "Love my 1991 80series Landcruiser".
All good. Mine is a 1988 75series Landcruiser single cab chassis with the ubiquitous aluminium tray that I have meticulously cared for, for many years, actually since it was 6yrs old. I would not trade that car for anything else! Simple, does NOT beep at me, goes everywhere, tows pretty much anything. I have put a 1HT motor in it, after all it has done 750k miles. But that is all the work it has had. Everything is standard and still works fine. No need to fix, modify or replace anything. Nice flat seat too! Not one of these wrap around piss-fartin seats! 😅😅
It would be great to see your take on "4WD" EVs.
This was a great topic Ronny, and I agree, my 1996 Sierra is still going strong without any issues, even though it has been pushed to its limits. I also find it ridiculous with all the over-pricing of newer vehicles these days (p.s. sorry about all the edits).
They have done a lot of testing with the EVs off road here in the US. The Rivian is capable for what it is but lacks range and reliability. It would never work in Australia unless you want to tow a generator behind you
@@brentwaldman265 Yes, the Rivian is an intriguing vehicle. Currently, all 4WD EVs would suffer in Australia because we still don’t have the infrastructure to support the outback distances required. Our major infrastructure is also heavily reliant on coal which defeats the purpose. On top of this, the cost to top up an EV is more than the cost of petrol/diesel. Some Australian EV owners are using apps to find power-points to top up freely :). Then there are the 7.5 tonnes of CO2 emissions required to produce the lithium batteries in the first place for the average 4WD EV. As a result, it takes an EV 5+ years to become "greener" than your average ICE. So currently, I suspect the "greenest", most practical/ reliable, and economical solution would be to buy a tried and tested, second-hand petrol/diesel 4WD vehicle.
@@patroln48 I charge mine at home, and with solar power, so no cost, and no use for the grid. You will start to see more charging stations pop up, and in the outback. They don't need the environmental approvals petrol stations do.
@@jayd3931 Yes that is the ideal situation for charging these vehicles, but the 100's of thousands of people who currently live in units or large apartment buildings, and for other reasons, don't have the infrastructure or the same privileges at the moment as yourself and will still rely on the grid, as they do today for all their other electrical appliances. Yes power-up stations will be approved more readily, but we are talking about what best suits the 4WD community today , and what's available and in place today for the 4WD community.
@@patroln48 What's your reasoning saying it costs more to top up an EV than to fill with petrol/diesel? If we run some numbers for an SUV type EV it always works out significantly cheaper even if you use the least optimum figures.
Say the EV needs 150kwh to travel 800km. Charging from home, entirely from the grid, at the most horrible peak rate of $0.50c/kwh, will cost $75. My diesel Pajero at the best of times would use 10.5L/100km on the highway. To travel the same 800km would require 76 litres of fuel. Say I found really cheap diesel at $1.60/L, it would cost me $121. This is the worst case scenario for the EV.
Realistically the figures are much different. You could charge from home on a much cheaper rate, probably around half what I used above, or even less. I have an off peak rate of 0.15c/kwh. My Paj uses more like 11.5L/100. Diesel is currently around $1.90 here. So the EV would cost $22.50, Pajero $175.
On a wider society level, money spent on fuel is stripped out of communities and sent straight out of the country to multinational companies. Significantly reducing people's transport costs keeps more money flowing through local communities instead.
Electric 4WD might not be much of an option right now but it is coming. There's some interesting bolt in electric conversion kits that suit older 4WD's, have a look at the Electric Classic Cars youtube channel and his Defender conversion.
A big part of 4wdriving for me is being able to tour around Australia with my family in comfort and safety. Doing it in a 30 year old death trap is a huge downside for me. Factor in towing large caravans which a lot of families do as well and that’s when the modern 4wdrives are miles ahead. 4wdriving is not all about extreme locations and rock crawling.
So you're saying the two options in your world are "30 yr old death traps" vs modern 4wds.....did you even watch the video?
@blaylum they literally made barges to wade their cars across rivers, compare apples to apples 😂
@@andyirons7162 what are my options wise one
@@PP-bm7zp what i was saying is that your argument/ post seemed to suggest that its either a 30yr old death-trap (as if this is even a thing for people with half a braun) verses a modern 4wd.....firstly, there are many shades of modern 4wd....secondly, this video wasn't having a go at modern 4wd....not sure why I'm even explaining this is you watched the video ...but you made a good point too.
@@andyirons7162 never suggested anything, I was stating my preference. 1. The only one jumping to conclusions is you. 2. I watched the video. 3. Ronny states many time ‘this is my opinion’ and guess what, I too can have an opinion and don’t have to agree with everything in this video.
I live in Dubai and have a 2005 110 defender. It’s good in the desert, but it’s terrible as my daily to the office.
These moderns 4WDs are made to offer a better balance to people between comfort and the ability to go off-road. Obviously they have to compromise on some off road performance to achieve that balance, but the best thing about them is you can go straight from the office to the desert whilst feeling fairly relaxed.
Everywhere I go in my defender, I end up a little bit drained. Would trade for an LC300 any day. 😂
Excellent video…real talk based on experience….amazing youtube channel…a breath of fresh air in car review space where all other reviewers are repeating the same thing.
What would be the best cars from your experience with good balance for off-roading and regular highway drive.
100% agree - bring on the Grenadier type vehicles for those that want to use them as a 4x4!
Feel like 2010-15 was the golden age for most 4x4, both comfort mixed with mechanical reliability. From 2015-2023 seems to be the transition to crossovers/softroaders. Nissan Pathfinder R51 vs the new R52 is a good example!
thanks. Will keep a lid/cap on the age of search to approx 2014. Cheers.
@Shut TheGate No worries, of course it all depend on the manufacturer
, model, etc. But if you find a well looked after 4x4 jump on it, in my opinion will be harder and harder to come by in the next 10 years!
Id love to see a solid review on soft roaders. Lots of us are stuck in a middle place where our vehicles are 90% A to B and 10% offroad.
Thanks Ronny some interesting information on new 4x4's cheers.
Whoever wrote the comment about Pajeros after Gen2 not having lockers have no idea what they're talking about. You should have fact checked that before featuring it. The truth is that Gen2 and early Gen3 had brilliant LSDs with no rear locker and later Gen3 switched to optional rear locker, the later Gen4 all came with rear locker.
Funny thing, I have never seen a Gen4 Pajero hung up on it's front or rear diff pumpkins, or its spring hangers, for that matter. Sure, they've got their own limitations in regard to wheel travel, but the factory diff-lock or the traction control system typically mitigates those issues. While I'm sure someone has managed to break one in a Pajero, I've never seen a CV broken in one, but then, I've never blown out a CV on my past 4Runners or Surfs with IFS... but have seen a few DMAX break several - typically due to harsh treatment, like Graham Cahill does trying to keep up with heavily modified larger vehicles. Guess it comes down to mechanical sympathy by the driver🤔
The other irritating comments in the video was "...its about the driver." Sure, driver skill comes into it, but even Daniel Ricciardo isn't going to win an F1 event in a 79 series. As Ronny suggests, the vehicle has to be fit for purpose. And to that end, sure, you made it up that xyz crapped out hill like Shawn Whale can do, and like Mr. Whale, you blew out CVs on your solid front axle and shock-loaded the rest of the drivetrain for a yet to be determined surprise at some later and probably inconvenient date, but maybe you should have built a comp-truck (which are so great for touring the Gibb River Road, eh🤪)? Seriously, surely part of driver skill entails knowing the reasonable limitations of one's vehicles and acting accordingly? Hilux or many other IFS equipped vehicles with significantly upgraded power outputs and 33in plus wheels that break after being directed with the "full send" mentality up aforementioned obstacles are not necessarily bad or weak vehicles due to IFS, it's just that the aforementioned Shawn Whale-sized task exceeded its design purpose... so why should the novice buyer think that many of the vehicles criticised are poor when all the novice really needs is a tourer/fishing/camping vehicle?
As for vehicles being too weak due to crumple zones and the like, really? If i'm taking the family on a holiday and misfortune was to hit by way of a roll-over or collision, I'd much rather be in a 200 series or new Prado than one of those "unbreakable" 80Series or GU Patrol! That rather safer and way more comfortable 200 Series with its IFS and electronics will get you pretty much anywhere you want to go! So will a new Prado, Patrol, Nivara, Triton etc.
However, plenty of older vehicles also have nasty reliability issues. Ford, Landrover, and Jeep have notorious reputations for ongoing reliability issues, but the indomitable Toyota has just lost a class action over DPF issues, too, so I guess doing one's research instead of listening to beard strokers is vital.
BTW, anyone have any recommendations for a good beard oil? Mine's losing it's shine.
@@karl4834 I have managed to break an aftermarket front CV axle on my third gen Pajero, so I rebuilt the original axles and reinstalled them, no more breaks
@@Gripmagic Well done, Combo, on being the first I've heard of😃😃
For sure, some of those aftermarket parts leave a lot to be desired. I once used Repco CVs in my Surf when I was broke but never had an issue with them. However, I'm not the type that will keep beating on the car when it's fairly self-evident that she ain't getting up the obstacle regardless of what line I choose.
But if I'm honest, half the time I make my decisions on what I'll give a red hot crack at is due to not wanting to waste money and time on repairs. Lazy!
Seen way too many go through deep mud when they had other options, only to complain later when they've either flooded the car or worn brakes or other parts needlessly...and in 3 instances bent conrods due to water ingress into the motor (check your snorkel/air-cleaner fitment!) Same types rarely clean the vehicle properly when they get home, often finding things like the electric door locks and windows buggered up from stalling out in deep, watery mud.
@@karl4834 Yeah I have to admit, I unsubbed from this channel due to this bland, 'one sized fits all' approach to 'real 4wdin'g'.. Gen 4's almost all had at least rear lockers, and heaps of diff clearance, I have a front locker in mine but almost never need it. Sorry Ronny, you've jumped the shark now.
@Marcus K is interesting that you fitted a front locker. What brand did you choose?
I couldn't justify the expense of fitting a front locker for what I do and instead chose to fit the mod that allows one to re-engage the traction control when the rear diff-lock is activated - thus enabling traction control on the front to become the next best thing to your front diif-lock.
Tbh, I'm yet to try the outcome, but I do wonder whether my preferred slow rear diff-lock engaged approach will be enough to engage the throttle happier traction control 🤔
I'm loving my 4th gen Jimny because it has none of those intrusive electronic functions. Three years now and I can hardly think of any car that I would trade it with that could match its performance and hassle-free driving experience in the dunes.
I'd buy one of those if we could get them here in the US. Unfortunately our nanny government has deemed too much of that intrusive electronic garbage mandatory.😢
Buying that Jimny 5 door as soon as it launches here in India
I run a 1997 Ln106 hilux, converted to a 1KZ 3lt, with a stage 2 touring cam from Auckland cams and a mechanical pump made by JP performance and dyno tune, coupled with a manual actuated vgt at 22 psi, putting out around 250HP. Obliviously high lift on pedders suspension with 2 high tensioned LSD diffs front and back. It beats all the Rangers and Luxes, patrols etc.. An Awesome Car. 15years of going from Darwin to Exmouth vis the Gibb or to Brisbane through the center. It never let me down and yes it requires a bit of maintenance here and there, increased the sound damping and fitted an aircon filter to stop the evaporator from blocking up. Yes, old school but is an outstanding reliable vehicle.... I currently have 2 Cams for sale for the 1 KZ. a stage 2 touring cam and a stage 3 racing cam, The improvements are insane, be aware though, you do need better valve springs and a tune. All with certificates made by Auckland Cams. Check me out on Google if you interested. Boat and Bumper in Humpty doo...
Thank you for this and I appreciate your info you provide and your opinions.
I draw the line at 2007 for USA models. Love my manual 2005 3500 RAM 4x4.
I have a 2004 Ram Laramie with AWD.
Also has 4 wheel Low and 4wd High.
300,000 miles and does great.
Hemi power..replaced front axles and atubs once.
Excellent topic Ronny - I trust my 2010 Hilux auto diesel to get me out there and back because of it’s pure mechanical attributes such as hydraulic steering, mechanical hand brake, in cabin 4WD selector and analogue dials - already their are current affairs stories of the new Ford Ranger having a complete failure of it’s fully electronic dash and infotainment system leaving you stranded without any instrumentation and another one coming to a complete stop from 80km - my Hilux only has steering wheel controls for the infotainment system and ABS - all these new ‘Toorak’ ‘Cottesloe’ wagons are targeted at ‘urbanites’ wanting all the tricks and no substance - I’ve seen lane assist fail and push a Hilux over the double lines with a caravan resulting in a rollover and write off for both Hilux and caravan.
Same with our 2012 Fortuner Manual
@@ra_redesignautomobiles good to know RA and keep it for as long as possible as these will become rare.
The problem isn't the manufacturers, or the trucks. The problem is the buyers. They all want the most prissy, whimpmobile. Nobody buys a base model tough anything anymore. Ford actually stopped offering crank windows last year, because nobody bought them.
Mate I’m in a tricky place, exactly based on this video.
I have two 4WDs and I don’t know which one to progress.
1) 80 Series Landcruiser, 5sp manual, new crate 6.5L Optimizer TD V8 with a larger GT3582R turbo, (200kw/700nM or with intercooler a reliable 250kw/750nM), center diff lock, ARB front and rear lockers, 34” KO2s on steel ROH rims, 4” OME suspension, bullbar, rock sliders, all new, with a bare metal respray and ready for interior, rubbers and glass after the rebuild.
Bought and rebuilt for long distance offroad touring, not rock crawling or gnarly stuff.
2) 2009 RC Holden Colorado.
Newer 4WD, worse suspension design front and rear, but it has the 4JJ1 recently tuned to 210kw and 600nM.
With a FMIC and 50mm turbo, the little 4J will put out far more power than my big 6.5L V8 safely, while using far less fuel.
I guess it’s the 4J that’s hooked me.
It has 2” OME, ARB bullbar, ARB canopy, rear drawers and more add-ons to come as although I think the 80 series is the best 4WD ever made, and mine would be very capable, I just love the little Colorado.
I’m not so much asking for an opinion, but just showing that some of us hear what you are saying and it’s a really hard decision to make.
But your vids are absolutely top shelf mate. So glad I found and then subscribed!
Some of those soft roaders like the X-Trail have a clutch based 4wd system like the haldex one seen in fwd based AWD cars.
I think that's what overheats when you push it too hard in "4wd"
Can’t really consider an x trail a 4x4 it shouldn’t even be in this conversation 😂
Absolutely agree. I believe my 2009 Xtrail is far more capable than the current one. I don’t do any series 4wd driving.
Point is that the supposedly "proper 4wds" these days are not much better than an xtrail
I thought we were talking about 4wds? The fucks an X-Trail?
@@snazzyfox1137 it’s like a Subaru Forester.
@@raymondsvensson4667 is that like an Impreza but with worse performance and pretending it's meant to go in the mud?
I am an old time 4x4 person. Give an old vehicle anytime. i am not good with all the electronics and i dont want to buy or carry the equipment needed to trouble shoot electronic problems. i like knowing how to fix something in the bush. my first big 4x4 was a 1956 dodge power wagon
it was so simple to fix in the bush. slow and heavy but incredibly strong. never had to leave it to get out. other newer vehicles i have had to leave to get parts. i like simple easy to fix. thank you for the great video.
Agreed. When something the requires manual mechanical engagement by the driver goes wrong we can usually find a way to fix the issue or at least get home. When something that requires electronic engagement by the driver goes wrong where do you look? But now we have mechanical 'things' that are electronically engaged automatically by the vehicle often without input from the driver. When these 'things' go wrong where do we look to rectify these problems? I have an expectation that as these now soft electronic 4WD's start to age they will experience an increasing number of electronic breakdowns.
Hi Ronny, fantastic, original content as always! I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the Mux as it’s not on your list? I bought the last “old” model in 2021 because I didn’t want all the tech. So far I love it! Has never failed me and got me through the most challenging tracks up north with some simple mods.
We went this way too, a demo model 1st gen before the new one came out. Had it 2yrs and it’s done some great trips in that time. Can’t fault it!
Isuzu is Isuzu one of the most dependable brands in commercial cars and trucks, in Colombia all the trucks and pick up trucks used in cropping and milk or beef production and transportation are ISUZU and Toyota. DEPENDABLE is the key.
@@4WHEELSHOP4X4 Cheets mate! I bought it because of the dependable rep. I was disappointed to have a turbo go after just 30k! I’ve now learned they put in Mitsubishi turbos which are known to fail!! But other than that, love it so far 😉
mate in our reg. 4x4 club, bought a mux, 2 yrs ago..new,,1 yr later, an engine mount needed replaced,, 8k thank you.. fk that..
mate in our reg. 4x4 club, bought a mux, 2 yrs ago..new,,1 yr later, an engine mount needed replaced,, 8k thank you.. fk that..
Lets hope suzuki keep making jimnys and selling them all around the world, and apart from 3 & 5 door, make more versions with more engines and options, and the most important, at a price we can pay, because the car ain't gonna do much if it doesn't go out of the showroom
I saw our video and thought, what the hell is Ronnie talking about. But, I agree totally with what you say in this video. I drive a 23-year-old 4WD and I wouldn't update it for all the tea in China. You can keep the automatic emergency braking, you can keep your lane keeping assist, you can keep the auto-parking and the engine stop/start. Moreover, you can keep the automatic smart off-road controls. I was driving a Toyota Hi Ace van with lane keeping assist, I was in the left lane of a two - lane road and the left lane ended. As I crossed the line, the van thought I was running across the line and slammed on the brakes. I wasn't indicating because there was nobody else on the road. It scared me and I turned it straight off which I had done but when I stopped for a break, it must have turned back on. I pulled over to have a minute and the damned engine turned off (stop/start) so I turned that off too.
Driver assistance just means that people don't drive anymore, they let the car do it. What happens when they get into an old school car, they aren't safe.
I completely agree, but here in the US this change to Bluetooth 4WD happened a long time ago. IMHO
Ronny is attempting to bait people into an unnecessary argument. Consider your needs and buy a vehicle that meets them, new or old.
I just enjoy a mechanical driving feel of an older manual 4x4 feel alot more connected to the car and makes the driving experience more raw and fun. I don't dislike the newer 4x4s just find them boring!! Make the most of the older fun ones as they are gonna be a thing of the past soon
Hanging on to my 275,000ks 4WD 2006 3.0L Diesel Hilux for as long as I can.
😢 very true, you've given a very important reminder which whole world is missing to realise. I feel the same.
I agree that old is best mostly due to the fact that in remote places you are unlikely to find help from someone who knows those newer models but you can almost always find a mechanic who does know and has parts available for older models , it takes time a lot of time for newer models to have parts and knowledge to reach those more remote locations
Fact check. 4th Gen nx pajero has rear diff lock.
Very happy that I have a 2003 GU Patrol 4.2 ltr factory turbo inter cooled manual.
It’s not going to be replaced anytime soon.
Great thoughts. On one hand, we're getting Raptors and Jeeps from the factory with two lockers, suspension lifts, and lots of other stuff that people spend a lot of money to install in the aftermarket. However, the new off-road drive modes are stupid. Just give us options to select lockers and a dial for TC intervention and leave it at that. We don't know what Sand mode vs Mud and Ruts actually does. You have to experiment with the modes to see what you need to use and then you're stuck because you used the wrong one. The on-road safety systems clearly have no business being used off-road. They really need to make it easier to turn them off.
Good one. For someone looking to purchase a new or near new 4wd you touched on some of my concerns. But what about the mad Govt and lobby groups and what they want to do with so called efficient cars, as I’ll put it. You briefly touched on it with electric vehicles. I think they are potentially impossible off road, even the hybrids we see overseas.
Hey Ronny, how would you rate some older budget 4wds compared to LC/patrols etc?
Jackaroo, Pathfinder, Challenger, Prado 90 etc
Also, what do you think of the petrol Jackaroo?
I feel that it's the best of that bunch and is seriously underated.
The jackaroos were way underated. I had landcruisers - a 1978 BJ40 - which I used for years in the high country and around Australia a couple of times - great off road, but no power steering or A/C - pretty hard work to drive. Then I had a 1986 Landcruiser V6 - too heavy, slow, handled poorly, sucked fuel, the auto made it useless downhill and a couple of times the brakes overheated and failed, and no using the engine to slow you down. Recently I got a 1986 Jackaroo - 2.3 litre petrol - a great car, competent off road - trust it more than the 1986 landcruiser, handles well - still very simple mechanically but with power steering and A/C. Weight is a major factor - the jackaroo weighs 1500 kgs the latest landcruisers are 2600 kgs - thats a lot of weight to drag around. I think any manual jackaroo from the 1990's would also be good - and you see them around in very good condition, and a lot cheaper than the toyotas but probably as good or better in some ways.
well I can talk about the pathfinder R50, my dad have one and I have one, my dads pathfinder is 600k km and mine is 400k km, he uses his truck as a farm truck, that thing refuses to die and mine too, both vg33. his pathfinder is completely beat up, no bumpers, always broken lamps, 31 inch tires and a winch, we use that thing to climb mountains with dirt, sometimes we have to use chains on tires because of the mud, still, going very strong, engine running good, the transmission was working but he replaced the whole thing because of the transfer, it was completely beat up, mine I also used offroad with a heavy load. overall, good car, reliable, but lacks a bit of power, vq is more powerful than vg33 but vg33 is more reliable, another con is fuel.
Mate had a 2 door Jackaroo, mid to late 90s. The Isuzu petrol engine did guzzle pretty hard, decent vehicle though.
I was a lube bay mechanic when younger and have had 4wds for over 40 years. 4wds used to be a vehicle you could explore wild tracks with, maybe get a scratch or a ding and still enjoy a tour, you could go anywhere alone, with out a winch and with basic tools. They rarely broke down, and now in 2023 they have become useless over-sized, over-technical and over-mechanized, super-expensive, over - advanced road vehicles that look like 4wds, but are too big to fit in standard car parks in supermarkets, are difficult to work on in the outback, cost so much you have to be a nuclear scientist to afford them, and are too technical for roadside help in remote areas. They break down more often, get stuck easier due to excessive body shape, larger size and trim finishing, with many reaching sizes that are just inconvenient for inner city driving. Ford Ranger is a good example, it has become so electronically advanced, it is now one of the most helped vehicles by roadside assistance in Australia. If we look at the new Hilux its an amazing example of toughness turned to technology instead. My last hilux could be dropped from a crane and still drive. But as Hilux have become more advanced, it has become more common to see endless failures, especially after 2005 we see more diff failure, ABS breaking systems failure & electronic failure. Still a great 4wd, but getting too big and too advanced and insanely expensive to be a trouble maker. I have always favored Navara D22 3.0L Diesel as a super tough simple go anywhere machine, but the new Navara isn't a 4wd, it is a 4wd looking show car, its ridiculously technical, insanely advanced, unbelievably overpriced at about $75,000, and even breaking the stupid mammoth size grill in the bush is going to cost more than most financial institutions can afford to loan you. To this day i have a 2005 Navara that is simple and tougher than most new 4wds. In fact it has had a harder life than most 4wds and hasn't broken down in its whole life. If it does any mechanic can fix one, anywhere in Australia and get parts easily, but mine hasn't had a single part put in it for just under 330,000km. Other than 3 sets of front breaks, one set of front wheel bearings, oil, and filters and still has the original rear breaks. I changed the clutch bearing recently, but the original clutch plates still had over 4mm of meat. That's the sort of toughness and simplicity you want in a 4wd. Its only downfall is it has no cruise control for the highway. 2015 was the last of simple and tough 4wds. It was this point where 4wds cost range grew out of proportion and 4wds overtook luxury cars in annual percentage price increase. Personally i want a 4wd i know i can fix in the bush, can access parts quickly, that doesn't get bogged easily, doesn't break major parts, or have electronic failures, and is cheap to run on long explorations. No modern 4wds cover any of these simple features.
Great insight as always Ronny
Agreed on the lane assist, it's horrible. Electronics too and some other points. I think you'd probably call my rig a softroader...and it is, which I'm ok with given where I drive, and how well it performs on-road (like it's actually a lot of fun to drive)... I would just need to dump a whole bunch more money into it before I could comfortably take it on the Canning though lol
can you not turn lane assist off? might have to do it each time you start but the option is usually there.
@@borisjohnson1944 Fortunately it's a 2008 so no lane assist!
@@chir0pter with the 2022 d-max it has low level lane assist which can easily be overridden just by firm control by the driver, you just get a slight shake of the steering wheel and a gentle resistance. It also has a full on lane assist which would probably steer the vehicle for you but can also be overridden by the driver.
@@borisjohnson1944 that would definitely still bother me
You're getting old Ronny, "Dont like these new fandangled things, you young kids now days dont know how eazy you have it" hahahahah
Also with the transmition temp on the Ranger. You need to consider the only reason you know that is due to it having the ability to check it, how many others have you driven where you had no idea what the temp was because you did not have the option to check?
I completely agree, honestly. I have a 2003 chevrolet tahoe (usa represent). I actually bought it after I sold a 2007 fj cruiser I had. I couldn't stand the traction control that you couldn't turn off (without wiring hack- which I did) and I hated how weak and sensitive the electrics were. I went down about 200 miles of dirt roads one day with a group of people and I ran into abs/traction control sensor issues due to them getting dirty.
My 2003 tahoe though? It does have a passive traction control on the front axle only but even when I completely submerged the truck in a creek and had water getting in thru the back windows (miracle I didn't flood the engine without a snorkel) it still worked. Only electrical issues came from water getting in the rear lights and stuff but the truck drove me home and still works. Once the water dried out it was back to normal and hasn't had a hiccup sense. I did get a little water in the fuel tank and engine, but it was strong enough to push thru. When I got back to town I thru a couple bottles of water dissolvemt additive in the tank and I got shit mpg from the whole ordeal but it runs fine now. Did change out all the oils though.
I say that to say this: that fj cruiser, while technically way more capable, was just weak. It was super sensitive to things it didn't like, the transmission overheated and blew up once while offroad and I ended up doing all sorts of repairs to it over the 18 months of ownership. With this tahoe, the purchase price included, I've spent roughly $15k on everything for it. The fj? It was $12k just for the vehicle not including repairs and diff work and winch and all that
Let's see how the Ranger fan boys react to this!
Agreed here in Central Canada we have -30 temps regularly and the new Ranger 10 speed auto in the cold or bogged in the snow you will have a dash light come on to alert of trans temp too high and you have to let it cool down, yet this trans will tow over 3 1/2 tons, Ford needs to fix this problem, its just bad engineering or cost cutting
Always one of you isn't there. Cry in the corner of your mums room, ranger most sold ute in Australia for a reason, hilux turning to dog shit faster than a senior can shit. In saying that, all vehicles have problems in some form or another, if that one years certain model ranger has overheating issue and seems to be the only major issue then fucking hell how hard is it to get a trans cooler, they're nothing new. Landcruisers have shitty hand brakes and prados have exploding diffs, but no one ever talks shit about that because every other brand owner out there are more sensible and arnt petulant little children like Toyota owners.
You cant beat lockers, and you cannot beat a solid axle. I was so excited when the new Bronco was first shown, they actually gave it these massive wheel wells so that you didnt have to do any cutting....unfortunately it came with an IFS
The IFS is great for off roading.
@@salsa83 The Bronco IFS is garbage. The tie rods are the size of pencils and break way too easy. The rack and pinion and front diff are also very prone to failure.
Horses for courses I'd say. If you want to do "extreme" 4wding then less electronics and things you can physically see and maybe fix is a good thing. Usual downside of that is they drive and handle like a pig on the black top and aren't particularly safe. First thing lots of people do when they buy these is change the suspension and seats to make them more comfortable. Most of us live on the black top and when we go "off road" it's not really extreme stuff so I guess in the end you need to choose the correct vehicle for the application. One size does not fit all. Love your work Ronny. 👍
I about 3 months ago i picked up 2023 Mux, and so far, im loving it. It still has the 4jj and same 6 sp gear box as the old model, but in saying that, it has a heap of sensors, which I am constantly turning off!
dmax and bt50 are a great middle ground. I do with I had that off road button to turn everything off faster