Calls for Caravan Towing License, THE PROBLEM WITH THE INEXPERIENCED
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- SHOULD THEY NEED A LICENSE? The Experts Call for Caravan Towing License AGAIN!
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If overloading or poor loading practices are a main cause of accidents. Why don’t caravans in WA get roadside weight checked. They do it to trucks, have never seen a caravan being checked.
I've seen them do it over here in VIC, when they've got the weighbridge heavy vehicle inspections they wave the caravans in too, especially in peak season
@@danx7143 I've never seen one open
Absolutely. If you need a separate licence for a small truck, you should need one for a caravan that makes you longer and handle far worse than a large truck.
your right.
Govern me harder daddy
It’s not the issue though is it. The issue generally is; 1. Underpowered or unsuitable vehicles, and 2. Lack of experience. A license/training would give you some confidence but experience comes from being on the road. Underpowered vehicles and ill equipped vehicles is probably the larger issue, which needs to be tackled by law enforcement. Not doing the required speed limit = fine. Not having the correct weight distribution = fine. Having the incorrect tyres or suspension = fine. You have to make people fear to do the wrong thing but confident to ask questions and make sure they want to and are able to do the right thing.
Respectfully disagree. I've been towing a van for over 20 years, I know all of my weights are well within legal limits etc. Why should people like I have to go through the hassle of getting a towing licence. It's a case of a few bad apples spoiling it for the majority. We need more enforcement including random roadside weight and safety checks, more police on the roads etc.
@@joking7081if you know what you are doing, then getting the license should be a breeze...
Unfortunately, only around 15-20% of people should be made to have training and a license..3 years on the road full time we have seen a lot of S(%$ BUT we have also seen a lot of good driving! we all know if the rule comes in everyone will need to get the training. which is fine im cool with that, AS LONG AS the training is focussed on actually teaching people and not about the government scalping us for more money. I know there will be a cost, as long as that cost isn't clearly a revenue raiser.. like the ute tax.
It's the government.....
bang on bro
Yes absolutely… i believe all caravan/trailer towering should have the correct license… After all, it’s an articulated configuration that needs skill and experience to operate. Moreover, one has to get a special permit plus a lot of hours up before they are able to be tested for a HC (HEAVY COMBINATION)… I see a lot of drivers towing large vans doing such stupid,idiotic operations on our highways… They need to be taken off our roads!!!
Of course it'll be a revenue raiser, all the in the name of safety
It's not just caravans causing problems. It's the whole driving community regardless of vehicle driven or towed. I have followed 4wd convoys and they have been up there with caravans as far as being ignorant of other road users trucks yep again there are some out there that do the same. We are all guilty of bad road manners at one point in time or another. Relax don't push the vehicle in front It's not a race .
Goes with the idiots that hog the right lane, even worse if they are towing anything
The problem is not so much with convoys if done properly but with the lack of skill and confidence people have with overtaking. Overtaking technique isn't taught here like it is in other countries, and convoy driving isn't taught either, and yet they both happen. People need to learn how to drive in convoy, and more importantly, how to overtake safely, none of which are done correctly because I have seen many do it wrong. A convoy or group of vehicles can only be so long with adequate gaps between convoy groups to allow for overtaking, but as neither are taught when going for license, people do whatever.
Well said. 2 years driving around the country I tell you what. There are a few truck drivers who need to hand their licenses back.
Fair to say , but theres a bloody lot more car drivers that most definitely shouldnt be on the road , in the end no one is perfect , but we could certainly do more to educate people , and even the lack of police on the road which is no fault of theirs , but the reliance on stupid cameras by our pollies and law makers which are mainly focused on speed and revenue , and do almost nothing to curb poor driving actions among other things .. @@biglap.australia
Accredited training should be encouraged. I used to tow vehicles around for a living 20 odd years ago, but nothing as heavy as my near 3T caravan. I bought the caravan a couple of years ago, so did a course and it was more of a refresher for me with some pointers I didn't know, especially weight distribution and how easy it is to be overweight.
Another thing, the marketing for these 3.5T towing utes needs to be looked at. The number of dual cab utes driving around that are way over weight, before hooking up their maxed out 3.5T caravan is astonishing.
Yeah the dual cabs/pajeros/SUV’s should not come close to 3.5t - unless it’s been modified with a GCM upgrade and has 600nm minimum.
I'm 66 years old and I've been towing boats, trailers and caravans ever since I got my licence. I don't agree with a towing licence because it cost a certain amount to get and the price would rise rapidly after that, unless it's like a boat licence, which is forever. The free accreditation towing course would be the way to go and I would do it if it became available. Keep up the fantastic educational videos and all the other videos you are doing. Cheers.
Agreed, this shouldn't be about revenue raising, it should be about safety and having it work the same way as boat licenses would do the trick. Getting the license should work the same way boat licenses did too.
Recently I was talking to someone who is in her mid 60's, had never driven anything larger than a small hatchback, who had just purchased a large SUV so she could tow a 2.5 tonne van. She got the suv and the van in the same week. Drove out of the caravan yard and went on a 400 km drive up the coast. Never parked either parallel or reversing the combination before. Was a bit intimidated by the size of the SUV by itself. To her credit she was booked in for a training course with a reputable trainer the following week. Probably should have done that first and definitely should be at least an endorsement on a license at a minimum.
Problem is, after doing some research for this, is that almost all training course say you have to have your own vehicle and van to do the course.
@@jodie01 Well we can certainly hope so mate, we are looking at selling up and getting the car/van, I haven't towed anything bigger than a box trailer since getting out of the ADF and missus towed a dog grooming trtailer, so was looking around at local companies to see what was available, to give us some instruction and knowledge.
I spent 7 years towing a homemade 15k van around OZ with my family, I had years of experience with builders trailers, truck and dog so I had a small amount of experience. The amount of inexperienced people I observed over that time was mind blowing from overloading to speeding and whipping, to incorrect tow vehicle showed they were either ignorant or arrogant.
My only concern about another licence or training could lead to anyone towing in general. I’ve seen just as much dodgy towing just trailers.
Don’t give the Gov another revenue stream.
Give them an inch they will definitely take a mile.
Next we will have a Video about the overreach in licensing..Be careful what you wish for..
We have the same problem in the US. You really have to watch yourself and others on the roads. Stay safe out there!
Totally Agree.
I wouldn't necessarily make it a stand alone licence, just add it as a conditional allowance on your driving licence like how they are marked differently for manual and auto.
Great to see you love the Road Flare. It's a product we have "tried and tested" and reason having them came about with a personal experience. Glad you love it and we appreciate the shout out. Cheers Linda, Rowan & the JTS Team.
It should include a mathematics test for the weight distribution. That will screen out the fools
I hate being over governed here in WA but from a safety point I really feel if you cant drive trucks without a licence then caravans should be treated the same
As for he real question, Toyota are diluting the Land Cruiser name,sadly - just fix the 76/79 obvious weaknesses!
A licence doesn't make you a safe driver, all it means is the government has given you permission to drive on the road and you drove safely once.
Any vehicle 2 tonnes or more should be specially licensed. They are classed as small trucks anyway (to get around emission standards).
There should be a towing permit, which requires a certificate from an ATO to be able to tow any trailer that legally requires brakes (over 750kg). I do a lot of driving and towing for work across the country and have seen a lot of dodgy stuff. When I started my employment we went through a trailer course which was quite helpful as I had not done much towing before. Then if the police pull you over there can be no ifs or buts, as you HAVE to know how to load your trailer and select a tow vehicle, resulting in either a fine or loss of permit for breaching the conditions of the permit. One of the worst I have seen was a hilux towing a 3.5t truck on a car trailer, it was loaded with probably 5-700kg on the towball, his front wheels were barely touching the ground... oh and it was pissing rain on a remote stretch of 110km hwy.
That's insanity. A permit to tow. I bet you have had over 6 vaccinations.
Training for towing trailers is important for anyone who is going to tow anything. Both my daughters have been towing and reversing trailers around since they started to drive (private area from about 14) along with basic vehicle maintenance.
Education is a good starting place for this.
We also need to stop the manufacturers from advertising a Towing capacity that doesn't match the real world situation.
The formula should be: GCM=GVM+ATM
This misinformation leads people to believe they can tow more than is practically (and legally) possible.
My towing experience started with granddad's boat in & out of boat ramps , so you need to start off small to gain confidence and knowledge. So for caravans I training course I think is more involved and training would be handy no difference to getting a boat licence from scratch
I have a MC licence, understand weights and tow a van. A lot of people don’t understand weights and I think that’s the biggest problem.
Licensing doesn’t generate competence necessarily, training and experience does. What ever gets better with governments involved? Let the private sector create accredited training centres and get a tow passport, if you get that passport you get an insurance reduction offered. For example I have a semi trailer license, which I got in WA, after 5 lessons, it was actually a multi combination as well when I got it, scary. A week later I was loading up 16 tonne on a float behind a 620HP Semi, where was the training really, but I had the license, passed the test? You still need experience. I tow a caravan these days and certainly hope my semi license trumps a caravan license. I’ve currently been touring for the last 2 months pulling a van, and the issues I find concerning are, speeds plus 100kph are risky, over loading of course, van size v’s tow vehicle and one everybody is guilty of from truckers to cars, insufficient gap for over taking vehicles. Want to make a trucky happy jump on your uhf when they roll up in the mirror or camera, and invite them to come around when they are ready and you’ll back off the speed to let them in. It’s a great interaction for all.
A 5 day training course is still better than what alot of new caravaners have. Recently had a friend ask me for advise about towing a caravan, they had no idea about GCM or tow rating of their own vehicle and had a caravan lined up that was 500kg over the tow limit...
A tick and flick exam by some garbage provider isn’t worth a damn. Just funnels more money into the dodgy training industry
@@andrevanderwalt2515 Not 5 days friend 5 x 1 hour lessons. In the license test they don’t even check if you know how to connect the prime mover together with a trailer. If you can drive it, reverse it and pass the written test, you’re done. Knowing a vehicles towing limit and where to find it with basic towing tests should be part of the vehicle license competency, in my view. I’ve always personally thought this should be covered.
@@Alan.livingston Clearly that doesn’t hit the mark, thinking more like off road driving trainer course level , plenty of practical , including reversing.. Licensing is not training, it is a test of competency, you have to get the competency somewhere. The trainers have to deliver a minimum National standard, then it can be added to your existing license..
@@johnjackman7622 misunderstood what you stated, still 5 hours more, but at least check if you know something before letting you loose
Yea it crazy to tow anything larger than the kerb weight of a tow vehicle - crazy for the manufacturer to say ok to tow 3500kg on say a new Prado… but every manufacturer does it - I think the crash happens not with lack of experience but more lack of training and “ I don’t give a F” because the law says I can.
I like the Škoda in the background. 😀 Here in the EU we do have two types of licenses related to this.. BE license (3.5+3.5t) and B96 (4.25t GCM), while the B96 is the easier one considered especially for caravaners with a compact car or SUV and a caravan (but not enough for really big caravan or car). The legal trouble is that if you go over your license weight limit, it is equal to driving without a license (expensive).
That made me to do the full BE course in the end, because then there is nothing exceeding such license limits in the EU unless it's a proper truck. The course wasn't really tough but I would recommend it to anyone towing a caravan or a boat, you gain some skills there.
Great video Ronny. I hope the Federal Government does introduce a license to tow any type of trailer, not just a caravan. With some of the work I do, I own a v6 turbo diesel 4x4 and sometimes tow a 7 metre trailer or a 7 metre boat on its trailer, both trailers are “ braked “. I’ve been towing trailers for a bit over 40 years and I’ve seen so many wrong vehicles being used for towing and wrong trailers for the job. I just don’t understand some 4x4 manufacturers, my vehicle has front disk brakes with rear drum brakes, WHY???? is that aloud? I drive to the weather, road surface, traffic and the trailer weight conditions. When I know there’s a line of traffic behind me while driving on a single lane, I always use my indicator or pull slightly to the left to allow vehicles behind me to pass. I’ve got to say that there’s far too many drivers who are impatient,it’s just sometimes not safe on the roads.
When I went on my P's back in 2012 I looked at this. I could tow a trailer weighing under 250kg when empty but I could load it to 750kg, on my Green P's you can tow anything BUT I believe over all classes if your GCM is over 4.5t you can only do 100kmh even if not towing towing under that, I may be wrong here but that tells me if I am towing a small box trailer with my Pajero I am still legally only able to do 100kg because the maximum GCM is over 4.5t.
I think we should have some training at least included in the Learners tests & lessons. I got my Red P's and only a couple of months later towed a box trailer (under 750kg) from Sydney to the Central Coast and back countless times loaded with my furniture while moving house. I had no problems and it taught me heaps but even that is very risky.
Don't think you need to licence towing however everyone that tows should do a coarse.😊
I’ve towed boats and a light van most on my licenced years, we have ordered a new van that’s 2.5t, and feel that’s as big as we want to go behind a new RA Ranger. I absolutely agree some form of accreditation should be available for newbies to towing, and would be willing to undergo the same even though I’ve towed trailers a lot. There is always something to learn.
Good video Ron. I reckon it’s no different from getting a Skippers ticket. You’re in charge of a vessel and you’re accountable for all the lives on board.
Get the training, get certified, get it right.
Interestingly, it seems in NZ the weight limit of 6000kg (GCM) of a class one is based on the manufacturer GVM of tow vehicle and trailer regardless of actual weight. So technically you need a Class 2 (heavy traffic/truck) licence to tow pretty much any tandem Aussie van with something like a DC ute. Say the ute has a GVM of 3000kg and the caravan has a GVM/GTM of 3500, you would be in breach of a class 1 license (GVM+GTM = 6500kg) even if both were pretty much empty and actual weight was 5000kg.
The problem with a rule like this is that it encourages drivers to max out a less capable vehicle than to tow well within a larger vehicles capacity.
For example if you were towing a van with a GTM of 3000kg with a DC Ute (GVM3000kg) you would be right on the limit of a class 1. If you upgraded to a 200 Series Cruiser which has a higher GVM, you would be illegal unless you had a class 2 HT licence. Actual weight being under 6000kg means nothing apparently.
This is why I said no to extra licences. Training is the issue, not more legislation. Apart from unintended consequences of legislation if it isn't well thought out, it can just create a tick box exercise. People shouldn't get a normal car license unless they can drive, you only have to spend 5min in a car on NZ road to see that practical skill isn't a major component of driver licensing here. How much more capable would people towing be, if they were half decent drivers to begin with?
As far as the USA, not much on the radar for towing, but we should require at the least an endorsement just like motorcyclists have to have. Varies from state to state though.
Regarding the FJ, it hurts to hear the notion of downgrading it to a crossover SUV! 😡 and it should have been called NFJ-Not a F’n Jeep!😂
Interesting that I have towed a boat for 40 years and now stepped up to a Van , did a GVM update (through ARB) on the 200 series as my GCM is at 6600 kg. Different world towing the Vans to the Haines Hunter.
I own a new Ranger as well and no way would input the Van behind it even though it’s legal, you’d have to have rocks in your head to do so.
Why wouldn't you tow with the ranger? The ranger has a higher gvm than a landcruiser. If weight is your argument, that makes it better.
@@veneratedmortal4369 The Ranger GCM is too low.
Maybe a written assessment for anyone who registers a trailer with a ATM >750kg. Dept of transport could provide an online course. Any Trailer sales, hire company or individual that sells or lets others use their trailer remains responsible for induction of the purchaser or borrower. Similar requirements to when you hire certain powered equipment. Also agree with
A video on overtaking etiquette/tips when passing trucks or caravans, with and without UFH, would be great. Thanks for all your videos, they've helped me a lot!
Here in Maryland, USA, you don’t need a license. If the trailer is over 3000 lbs, it must have working brakes. I prefer brakes on all.
If insurance companies gave a discount for training, it would likely help.
That depends on the state and the use. Large trailers behind a diesel pusher would require a class A CDL if you are doing something that is a business purpose (as an example, delivering the vehicle to the purchaser is considered "business" use, and for people with toy haulers going to amateur racing events where there is a monetary prize this has been considered "business" use also). A large diesel pusher used for commercial purposes would require a class B CDL even if it's registered as a recreational vehicle. That is a uniform requirement across the USA. Some states offer non-commercial class A and B licenses or specific endorsements (PA, NY, probably others), and if licensed in those states you need to have that license or endorsement. Out of state drivers would not need it, unless their state of licensure both issues and requires it.
In principle, yes, but adding more government bureaucracy, costs (indirect taxes) and interference, then no. We recently did the free 2-hour RACWA course here in Perth and it was invaluable, although I'd happily do more training as most high-level skills are perishable. And I'm towing a van that's well within my towing vehicle's capacity, not one of the 'right on the legal limit - so it'll definitely be over once we've filled it with our stuff' rigs that are the most prevalent. Probably the best way would be for insurers to insist on evidence of an accredited training course, but that ain't gonna happen!
I grew up in South Africa, they have a towing license for anything over 750kg. To get the license is the same as a normal license, but with a trailer over 750kg hitched to your vehicle. But the cost is the same, so no extra cost/taxes.
alot of people just dont know.there is so much to learn about towing and weights. your videos are really about this subject. there should be course on towing weights when people buy large caravans boats trailers. as truck driver for many years we need to know our w eights over our axels. theres alot to learn about weight distribution also caravaners dont know.
I’ve purchased 2 caravans one 2nd hand and our lasted brand new from a retailer in Nowra and Coffs Harbour. Both salesman asked the vehicle I would be towing the van with. I will say that you’re right about driver training is needed. There’s too many differences here between each state. I believe in the UK, licenses since early 2000’s only allow you to tow around 1k weight. If you want to tow above that weight you have to do towing course and driving test. Maybe something like that could be done here.
Hi Ronny when you purchase a Caravan in Queensland you get a hand over as part of the sale and some of the big companies do a driving practical instruction to drive and reverse, also parking the van. Petty more people don't take this seriously.
Last big drive I did was from Perth up to Cue, north of meekatharra for work last year. I saw no less than 3 caravans that were completely destroyed on the side of the road, all looked like single vehicle accidents thankfully and didnt look like any serious injuries.
Why Ronny is a FJ not a Land Cruiser ?
If the manufacturer, Toyota, makes it and they put in into the Land Cruiser family, who are we to say otherwise ?
What about your “Troop Carrier”, if it’s not being used in the military and isn’t carrying troops, can you still call it a “troop carriers” … ?
If a people mover has only the driver in it, can it be called a “people mover” ?
Are 4 wheel drive SUV’s, that have a transfer case, be called 4 wheel drives ?
Should VW Amarok’s not be called a 4 wheel drive when some ( if not all ) didn’t have a seperate low range transfer case ?
It’s a slippery slope once you stumble down it mate. It’s a fine line.
Keep up the good work mate 👍, enjoyable as always
Toyota missed the boat if they think that putting a body kit on a RAV4 will make it a Jimny.
That would be the equivalent of putting a DamD Little-G body kit on a Jimny and thinking that you have a G-Wagon.
yeah, i think an amarok isn't a 4wd off-road vehicle. its a SUV. Sports and Utility Vehicle. i think SUV's are all the cars on the road that are larger than a corolla.all the new unnecessary high and bulky cars basically. most of the SUV's are useless off-road. but a land cruiser or a hilux isn't, hence i don't think they belong to the SUV category...
We had a law in the UK but they just got rid or it last year. The way it worked here was, if you passed your driving test before 1997 you could drive a 7.5 ton truck with up to a 3.5 ton trailer. Then they changed it, you could only drive a 3.5 ton truck and a 750kg trailer,. You had to take a test to get the trailer, and a different test to get the 7.5 ton truck, and another test to get the 7.5 ton truck with a larger than 750 kg trailer. So why did they get rid of it? Well all the youngsters who passed their test after 1997 were discriminated against in the jobs market, employers preferred older applicants who they didn’t have to fork out to train.
aye and I still see people in the motorway parks beaches who are not doing it properly. that's the problem everybody should be regulated not just the newly qualified.
One thing people don't realize is that your vehicles max towing, is pretty much if your vehicle is completely empty. If you have your car full of gear and your mates, you can not tow your max weight
That is correct only with vehicles that have undersized drivetrain... and you may not want to tow with these. In other cases heavier tow vehicle gives you more stability.
Hi Ronny, Just watching your show about Towing License, for Caravan, yes i do agree with some sort training, I have a Question for you, I am 71years old now i was a interstate Truck driver for over 30years, but i have down graded my license to just a car license now, should i have to be trained to drive a car pulling a caravan as well i used to pull single trailers, then B-doubles, then Road Trains, in October of last year I downgraded my license to a C licence. Let us remember the Big SUV is on the way out what is going to tow these caravans then, thanks mate i love your show and have for a long time now.
Harry F Bevan
Agreed but there needs to be more scrutiny of those towing. I towed a 18" caravan for a friend just a couple of suburbs away with my Fortuner (about 5-6Ks). It weighed about 2.5T and yes it was legal ... but if the Fortuner was loaded up it would be sketchy on the weight limit. No way I'd tow a caravan that big any real distance, yet people do all the time. Maybe they should also be checked at heavy vehicle checking stations. Most truck know what to do so why not check on those who probably have no idea.
Went to a bush fire this year in the middle of summer caused by an overloaded and unmaintained camp trailer the wheel bearing failed and the rim and wheel came off the hub than It lite 🔥up about 150 meters of grass next to highway from the sparks on the road they where going from Victoria to Qld they had only gotten 70km from home when that happened lucky it didn’t get to big or hurt anyone.
There definitely should be a towing license.
Towing my boat once and the truck ahead of me indicated left and pulled onto the lhs road shoulder, then pulled out to take a right hand corner straight in front of me while i was doing 100km/h… can only learn to expect the unexpected through experience
Add to your discussion people towing big boats that can't back them down a boat ramp nor drive safely on the road
And so it brings..
Let's not forget learning to reverse a trailer. Vans and boats!!
As someone who holds a truck licence and also tows a heavy trailer regularly for work definitely agree that further licencing and training needs to occur once trailers are requiring brakes eg 750kg and above as well as a secondary category above 2 tonne.
You forgot Ball weight! We had a Prado and got a caravan that could be towed by it, with 700Kg allowance for luggage. When we loaded it all up to do a 5 week trip over to Perth and back, I took it over the local weigh bridge. It ended up being 35Kg over the Ball weight, even though every other weight was under the maximum allowed and legal. It took a huge amount of repacking to fix that 40 Kg problem.
8 to 10% on the ball or you sway too much.
At age 52 I purchased an older Jeep Wrangler (not my daily) for off road driving and camping. Am looking at purchasing an off road camper trailer in the next 12 months. Nothing above 2 tonne fully loaded.
I will be definitely doing a 4wding course to learn the vehicle properly (and recoveries), and towing course before getting the camper trailer.
Yes will probably cost approx $2k or more combined for both. It is an investment within myself and allowing me to have so much more fun, safely. Also reduces all of the insurance policies so the training pays for itself over 3-5 years.
With 15 years of being in the transport industry and 5 years in heavy haulage traveling up and down the east coast of Australia, I have seen my fair share of bad towing. Yes, it should have some training should be involved and not just a one-day course and I believe the transport department should be looking into these vehicles' towing and weighing these combos cause a lot are over-loaded and towing with water tanks full is another thing, you can 99% of the time get water on site or near site. I can do a full day working on the road with regulation stops and rest breaks and the second I get home hook up the trailer on my Prado and off I go for another 12-hour drive it's bullshit.
Rather than another license (sick of paying money to Govt), if you want to tow the big rigs (say 3t and over)you should be required to do an approved training course to develop the understandings and skills required for the task.
Yep. Totally agree.
In America, most of the issues with overloading and towing with the wrong car is with people renting moving trailers driving long distances. The companies absolutely do not educate anyone on how much they can tow.
I think it should not be a license but it should be required to provide the towing vehicle for the trailer registration and rentals, or something like that.
I have just upgraded from a camper trailer (I have had two over the last 15 years) to a 2.2T hybrid 7m tip to toe. It was a big jump when I first started towing. I got use to it quickly ionbut I would hate to go anything bigger (and that is towing behind my LC200). I would think a subsidised training course would be a good idea based on the amount of people that cannot reverse a trailer and overload to buggery.
Not a licence as such as but an endorsment similar to a heavy endorsment with a heavy licence being eligable . there a lot of extra factors involved including how to back it into a site , how to turn a corner without running over somebodys bonnet(happened to me) as well as all of the weight regulations . also some carvan drivers need to be taught courtsey as well , driving in convoy and not leaving enough room for passing vehicles to pull in between .
The convoy thing isn't just a courtesy, it's law. Any "long vehicle" (over 7.5m combination) must leave a gap of 60 metres behind any "long vehicle" it is following.
Just one point to touch on in the licencing department. That should be common knowledge to anyone who has a licence to drive.
@@Grumpy-sy7wrcommon knowledge and common courtsey , unfortunatly both can be thin on the ground at times
Here in Europe, there is a license requirement for large combinations (assuming you are young enough to have a class B license) but the training actually does not contain much in terms of driving a large combination. Also, there are plenty of cases where you are allowed to drive a questionable combination without a BE (car + big trailer) license. Especially combinations where the weight of car and trailer comes very close or for very long but light-weight trailers (e.g. I can get a 7m trailer for a beach cat that weighs just 450kg).
If there is a license required, there should really be dedicated training to driving big combinations
Great video Ronnie. Such a difficult topic because there are good arguments to be made on both sides. The free Government course is a great idea but nothing is for free in this life even if someone tells you it is and definitely not from the Government. Many people would take advantage of a free course ,but sadly just as many wouldn't because they think they don't need it or are just too lazy. You don't have to be Einstein to see that towing (caravans in particular) is a huge problem in this country, not only the towing combinations, but how that load is distributed. I think it may have been Queensland that had a crack down late last year and they found the vast majority of towing combinations checked were overloaded by either GVM, GCM, ATM or all.
Sadly, things will most likely continue to get worse until the Government has no choice but to step in and regulate towing.
Small correction regarding VIC: Green P Platers (P2) can tow with no restrictions. Only Red P’s (P1) cannot tow at all.
Whoa Ronny! Not far off the big 500K subs! half a mil! amazing!
Love it!
I worked at a large caravan company, in the service department. Often being the first point of contact. 50% of caravan owners cannot tow em properly. The amount of vans in our yard that got damaged due to bad driving, also had to install VERY EXTREME FENCING, not for security but for the people who can’t seem to get in between the 20m wide opening gate. Also seen some questionable damage.
in the Uk until 1997 you didn't need to do a towing test then they brought in a test for any trailers over 750KG. Due to cover and a shortage of truck drivers they scrapped the towing test to free up spaces for truck tests. its always a good idea to take extra training
Definitely agree with training to learn to tow. Learning to tow while on your L's is a great idea
Experience with the vehicle and what it's comfortable with, what you're comfortable with, and awareness of how road conditions can affect stability. Simple as seeing a b-double tautliner and knowing it has a bow wave of air pressure, so it's time to wake up and hang on to the thing, be prepared to make adjustments. Not snatching the wheel either, it takes finesse to correct and make it seem like you didn't do anything at all. Without finesse you may set the caravan rocking and then you're riding the wave.
I would do a hundred dollar course. It needs to have questions such as 'how will you test your towball load'
To those in the video who suggested that "We are already over-regulated" and "The last thing we need is more laws," should we assume you would be happy to board a flight with an unqualified pilot? That would be another example of incompetence putting lives at risk.
In Europe (I live in Norway), you do need an additional license for towing - unless it is a very small trailer (basically 750kg). Driving license is a "B", with trailer it is "BE".
100% agree with working your way up. I started with a 750kg boat and now tow everything and anything ranging from 300kg to oversized 4.1T.
Also the biggest problems I see out there are overloading and caravaners going 80 in 100+ zones, both of which are hazardous to other drivers on the road and these require enforcement not a licence. That's where your training tax should come from Ronny
I am a truckie and I tow day in day out. Speaking of towing boats or caravan, I’ve got 0 exp. There are other bazaar rules when it comes to licence and what you can do. Also, in NSW and many other states and territories, you can drive a manual after a certain amount of time, legally, anywhere on road even you only driven auto before.
As a CDL (Commercial Drivers Licence) holder that can tow 52’ / 15m trailer 40 tons, YES I believe EVERYONE should be required to get even a BASIC tow permit/Condition allowance on the base license.
They can get simple tow, and those mega RV truck should required MORE than the General driver’s licences
At least a course similar to getting your motocycle licence. I had a fleet manager as a client and his father and mother bought the new 80 series and a van. Set off from their home, entered the freeway heading north (newcatle) lost control and rolled the van and 80. They were 5km from home. Never towed at highway speed. Had no idea. Survived and never went caravaning again
Ronny Rambles. FYI 186cm dude here and seriously the 4-door Jimny is one of the only true 4WD's that is exciting in the current market.
When I bought my camper trailer, i bought from the manufacturer, and they did their due diligence in making sure my vehicle was suitable to tow it (despite the camper only being 1.5T ATM) this should be part of every sales process. As well as training
It should be a requirement to complete a driving course prior to purchasing a caravan and the certificate endorsement needs to be seen on purchasing. Your licence needs to show that you have completed the course.
Just went through the process of purchasing an off-road van. The contract had a clause relating to the seller having discussed the suitability of the tow vehicle. What about towing a boat, it’s not just van drivers that are inexperienced.
As long as you Aussies are alright with your government’s actions during COVID, by all means ask for more restrictions and state intervention.
BTW we are also OK with our gun regulations as our kids are safe here.
I’d assume your American so at least us Aussies didn’t have 1.1 million people die from Covid. You may have thought you had personal rights during Covid but that meant you didn’t have a right to life.
There's a lot of so so drivers and then you throw a caravan on and there's nothing to say people are knowledgeable or skilled enough to safely do so
@@MitchellGrossman1.1 million died lol?Turn off msm bloody hell
I have purchased 3 Caravans in the past and I have to say Jayco ask what your tow vehicle is and also check for electric brakes fitted to the vehicle. During the sale process they tell you what you can and cant tow with your vehicle. I already knew but they explained the weights to me as a customer.
makes total sense . im originally from the uk. ive towed trailers boats and caravans. a refresher would not hurt at all
As a truck driver myself I'm totally on board with the requirement of towing heavy trailers.
I think there needs to be a license which allows you to tow anything long and heavy, for example a car trailer, caravan, long triple axle trailers should all be inclusive.
On the road I've seen countless unsafe applications and witnessed a nasty smash on the freeway where a prado towing a large boat got trailer sway, jackknifed and got pushed off into the barriers.
People need to be educated on how to distribute weight evenly and use the correct tow vehicle.
When you have a vehicle like a Y62 patrol towing a 3.5 ton caravan, that GCM can be up to 6.8ton which is far heavier than a light truck with a GVM of 4.5tons.
We all know a Y62 has plenty of power but when it comes to driveline reliability like chassis, suspension and brakes especially. People don't think about how the driveline is compromised.
My uncle did a recent lap around Australia in his Y62 & 3.5t caravan. He went through a set of brake pads and popped an airbag in the rear suspension.
In my opinion a light truck should be the vehicle of choice when towing large loads, we all know that won't happen.
So a licence to tow is a must in my opinion.
The entire industry needs an overhaul. Manufacturers of caravans aren't held accountable by standards at all and there are many lemons out there. An intensive towing, loading and reversing course should be mandatory irrespective of "I drive trucks" unless you are currently registered and active. There are licences for everything else, so yes it's needed.
Build quality of electrics and plumbing also leave a lot to be desired, even with the big name caravan manufacturers.
Watch a few of Extreme Auto and Caravan’s videos and you will see some atrocious cabling jobs. Plumbing is even worse!
www.youtube.com/@extremeacc101
this is why some caravan parks offer a service to back in peoples cars and caravans for them. i was going to say maybe a truck license like a light ridged or a medium ridged but i remembered that they dont offer any trailer reversing at all which kinda why i wasnt going to say it but yeah i do think there needs to be a training course of some kind, one thing i was lucky in school our ag class had a tractor and trailer and the teacher made us back it in between tyres to pass and you get points towards your term if you done it was pretty easy for some but yeah something like this should become a manditory thing for anything over 750kg trailers. mainly looking at anything breaked
the problem is it's a case by case thing, while I don't tow regularly, I do have experience with towing large boats, caravans and car trailers. But I know old retirees who tow their caravans stupid distances on holidays every year, but observing them reveals they still don't know anything about what their doing.
If we introduce said towing license, it will probably be a blanket license... so the oldies who need it will have to do the course, which is great, but the single mum who tows her garden trailer down the tip once a year will have to go through it too, which is incredibly unfair.
Not only should there be a licence or endorsement on their licence but they should also be called into every weighbridge on every highway like trucks and buses do. There’s nothing stopping someone from passing the licence check and then simply ignoring the rules…
Nice new format ronny!
Absolutely not to a license but yes to some one-time training.
As there are classes of travel trailers (Caravans) there should definitely be classes of permits. Especially for those (21%) who think not ! Those different classes should impose the proper towing vehicle matching the trailer.
I've have, after 56 years, been towing everything from small 1,500 lbs. utility trailers to 45 foot box trailers. I've enjoyed travel trailers (Caravans) over the years and have witnessed and meet very scary people with scary set ups.
"You are aware that your vehicle is not ideal for towing your 36 foot trailer." 'Ya, I know but it does the job."
RACWA has a towsafe course that is free to Members. They are run in Perth and Bunbury. My wife has been towing boats and smaller trailers for 40 years, but she won't tow with our outfit that is only 200Kg under GCM until she has done the course. This makes perfect sense. I have had to work my way up towing lighter loads and with smaller vehicles for many years and I cringe to think how a new driver would be able to handle it. Maybe it should be a provision on "P" plates that they cannot tow trailers over the 750 braked weight. At the very least this will allow a new driver to learn to control their vehicle before controlling something much heavier.
Should call it Ronny Ramble!
Drove 7.5 ton truck as a 19yr old with a 27 foot box in central London for a couple years on a car licence. Smashed one wing mirror, loads of inexperienced young blokes driving without a drama, work had a box of replacement mirrors. No need for more regulations, Australia’s already turned in to a Police State compared to just a couple of decades ago.
On the tyre pressure, I have a family member with a fully kitted Hilux and camper trailer that refuses to lower tyre pressure. They have on board air but it's a pride thing about it being a Toyota. They even did a 3 day 4wd coarse and came back still refusing to do it.
Great discussion.
I think there should be a licence to tow a caravan and agree with your comments on how it should be implemented so the cost is minimal to all the owners of caravans at the moment.
P platers should not be allowed to tow straight away from getting their licence just look at young drivers that buy a 4WD and go out bush drive like maniacs tearing up the place.
Just make the people who own caravans now do a towing course funded by the government like you suggested hence no cost to person and if government are serious on safety well it's a win win.
Once they have completed the course just add an endorsement on their current licence like a (T) next to their C class.
Your comments about caravan sales people making sure the prospective buyers have the right tow vehicle to suit what caravan they want to buy is a simple solution.
CHAIN OF RESPOSIBILITY
A dealer must ask all the right questions and inform the potential buyer of the legalities and sign a declaration that they understand.
If they have not the right vehicle for the caravan they want guide them to the right one or do not sell them the caravan at all.
As the case many people out there with caravans would be experienced truck drivers which would hold MC licences for multiple combinations which a car and caravan is a small combination, articulated so to speak not rigid then these people would be covered for towing caravans.
I for trailer driving training as long as it's not merely a government ploy to generate more fees or impose additional restrictions. just like a drivers license, this does not stop the rouge drivers who don't care for the road rules or safety.
Alongside driving skills, learners a P platers should learn essential maintenance like checking oil, tire pressure, changing a wheel etc
As long as it is only a certain size and over and it is attached to your driver's licence with no extra ongoing cost, a towing licence is probably a good idea. Learning to load, tow and park large caravans would be a lot easier to do with some support so a modicum of initial training is probably a good idea. I ran into a guy in a rest stop crawling under his van looking for issues because he was all over the road and having trouble keeping it straight. Turns out he just had a heap of heavy stuff rear of the wheels, I helped him pack his van better and followed him out of the rest stop and up the freeway for 10k before I overtook him and he was tracking straight as a die. Some training on things like this that are not immediately obvious to the novice won't just help prevent accidents, it will reduce the stress of learning to tow large vans for the average punter and help them have a better time on their first big holiday with their new purchase.
A good training course is needed, and an endorsement on the license ( like in the US for pulling doubles and triples) to show you are capable of handling the rig. As much as I don't care for government intrusion, the endorsement keeps you out of trouble with Jonny law should something bad happen. A simple solution would be to involve the training during the initial auto licensure process, then the basics are understood.
As an American, I did a double take at what people consider a heavy load worldwide. The trucks in my driveway are rated for 5 and 9 tons towing.
Cops should be policing caravan weights because I would guess that 75% of people are over gvm on their vehicles . And that’s dangerous as f#%k !
In sweden you need an B96 or an E licence to tow anything heavier than 750 kg. With an 96 code you can reach a combined weight of 4.25 tons. With an E license (heavy trailer) there´s no upper limit to what you can tow, only the towing vehicle sets the bar for what you may tow.
Yes they need to license/training for drivers towing. It would also need to cover load restraint and load distribution. very similar to truck licenses
In the Netherlands you have to do a 1 day training and an exam to tow a trailer above 750 kg. Driving a 2 ton car is a lot different than driving a 2 ton car with a big heavy trailer behind it. You could set a date and from then new drivers should get training for a towing license in my opinion.
I like your videos, and they are informing me a lot about the Australian way 🙂 Keep it up!
A tow test and licence certification should be a requirement for anyone towing a trailer/caravan that exceeds 750kg.
If someone wants to tow a caravan they should pay for a course at minimum, not use taxes.
This is a very interesting topic! Having grown-up in Colorado in the States, the rules and regulations are very similar-any “yahoo” with a new F-150 or GM truck are allowed to tow anything under the sun, OEM-rated or not. We fellow motorists see all sorts of break-downs and slow-moving, under-powered team groups of trucks, holding-up miles of traffic, because nearly the entire group have no idea how to tow, or clearly don’t recognize highway etiquette at all…
I agree with the 70%-there should be a separate license to be able to tow, similar to the CDL (Commercial Drivers License) here in the States…
Lol commercial, cmon man you want a license to own a gun?
Possibly get insurance involved and up the registration ctp until proof of courses can be provided
as a driver who has been towing trailers and in my later years a small caravan, I am100% in favour of either a special license or a permit in addition to the current license. I managed to survive due to the fact that when I started there was a lot less traffic on the road, and in the years since I have seen some very scary scenarios. Added to the fact that caravans are getting much larger and heavier, and to be quite honest i would be worried if I had to tow some of the monsters that are around today!!
Dealers will check that your vehicle can tow the vans weight, second hand market is the problem you can buy what ever and hook up and go. I towed a camper for ten years and yes going to a full size caravan was completely different learning curve as it had an extended draw bar. I think compulsory training courses (maybe online)would be good idea, not licence, as this could be controlled by registration renewal.
I’m all for it. I need a licence to drive anything over 4.5 tonne but you can go out and buy a ram truck and 4 tonne van and drive that with no special license.
That’s way more dangerous than a small truck.
Yes, totally ridiculous. A guy who has driven a Toyota Yaris sized vehicle all his life can go and upgrade to a Landcruiser and 3.5 t van and set off on his merry way.
He's in control of an articulated combination of ~ 7t with no training or certification, yet if you want to drive a smaller rigid vehicle of just over 4.5t you need a special licence. Bloody stupid.
When I was growing up in Texas, the state mandated that prospective hunters take a hunter safety course. They made this required based on your birth year. So, older hunters could choose yo do it and many did, but they mandated it only for folks born after a certain year. Perhaps that’s a way to improve things while recognizing the difficulty of adding new requirements to the drivers already on the roads.