God is so good as to raise up men Like WLC to equip the Church for the ministry and the ability to give an answer for the hope that is in us. May the Lord continue to bless him in all he does to glorify Christ and build up the Body for the work of the gospel.
Without having had these various possible theological positions fully explained to me I came to a conclusion in my own mind that something somewhere near Molinism best explains the information we can find in the Bible. This is despite never having heard of the guy's thoughts or writings. Calvinism falls a very long way short, in that, it uses a very small number of texts to defend it's theology while ignoring a vast number of texts that speak of genuine free will. As for what I understand Arminianism to be It is very true that much of the use of the words 'election' and 'predestination' refer to corporate purpose and not to individual salvation, however not every verse can be explained in this way. I don't think we can possibly even dream to fully understand the mind of God this side of eternity but Molinism , for me, is the theological perspective that explains the largest amount of the available evidence.
I don’t come to the same conclusion that WLC does. But I love the guy and give him an A+ 100% for laying out the 2 views fairly and fully and for engaging us in this great study. God bless him and his ministry.
These video archives are invaluable!! Thank you for your commitment and service Dr.Craig .. you continue to make a dent in Christian history .. these videos will be referred to long after you have come to rest in the Lord.
@Documenting Ordinary Thoughts D.O.T., May I share to you what I believe? =>>> Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...
15:10 "God knew which people would freely respond to His grace and be saved, and who would reject it." Amen. This is not calvinism, not arminianism, no reason for us to argue over thoughts of men, just believe the scriptures and spread the Gospel, the love of Jesus.
@goodshorts, May I share to you what I believe? =>>> Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...
7:04 On foreordination in Acts: that pushes the question further-What is the basis of God's decision what he foreordained to take place? It's not enough to say that God has foreordained certain people, and that's it. Luke was encouraging the Gentile believers that God had foreordained them too, not just the Jewish believers. It goes to show that it is in the same strand with Romans 8:29-30.
As regards Paul's call to service there is no doubt that God chooses men from among many to do service. This does not guarantee salvation for those persons (Ezekiel 3:17-18) but they are nonetheless chosen for particular services.
Acts 13:48 ¶ And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed The ordination is found in the OT prophets..... Mal 3:16 Then 👉🏻they that feared the LORD 👈🏻spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for 👉🏻them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.👈🏻 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Mal 4:2 But unto 👉🏻you that fear my name 👈🏻shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. Isa 65:8 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for 👉🏻my servants' 👈🏻sakes, that I may not destroy them all. 9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and 👉🏻mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants👈🏻 shall dwell there. 10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for👉🏻 my people that have sought me.👈🏻 11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. 12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. 13 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, 👉🏻my servants 👈🏻shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: 14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. 15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and 👉🏻call his servants by another name:👈🏻 Those who feared God and served God were appointed to eternal life. It’s written in the prophets. So did they fear God?.... Acts 13:26 ¶ Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and 👉🏻whosoever among you feareth God, 👈🏻to you is the word of this salvation sent. They were Gentiles who went to the synagogue on the Sabbath. Most likely they were seeking to become proselytes. Yes they feared God. The Father gave all that we’re His to the Son. Jesus came to gather in one the children of God which were scattered abroad. They belonged to the Father and the Father gave them (and all things) to the Son. God bless.
If it isn’t posible for the world to be arranged on a way for everybody to be saved, then on this view God would still be choosing to save some and no others.
Perhaps - a true free will is incompatible with a universally salvific world. But God in his gracious mercy and generosity endowed us with this true free will, even though He knew that some might choose to reject Him. However, I think we can honor Him by using this free will He so graciously gave us by choosing Him and having a blessed relationship with Him through Jesus Christ and with the power of the Holy Spirit.
@Bible MUsings, May I share to you what I believe? =>>> Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...
Acts 13:48 - the Greek word tasso is understood to be in the Middle voice or Passive voice. WLC for reasons unknown ignores the Middle voice interpretation. When understood in the Middle voice, this would mean that As many as Ordained themselves to eternal life Believed
Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...
Acts 2:23 - That Jesus would be crucified was predetermined. This is in keeping with Jesus's own libertarian free will determining His own future since Jesus is a member of the Godhead. That Peter's audience would be the ones doing the Crucifixion is not mentioned as being predetermined
This is the right tranlation of the Greek Text: Acts 13:48 Filos Και ακούγοντας οι εθνικοί χαίρονταν και δόξαζαν τον λόγο τού Κυρίου· και πίστεψαν όσοι είχαν τάξει τον εαυτό τους για την αιώνια ζωή. (Acts13:48 [TRa]) Ἀκούοντα δὲ τὰ ἔθνη ἔχαιρον, καὶ ἐδόξαζον τὸν λόγον τοῦ Κυρίου, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Luke’s use of passive does not mean necessarily that the disposition of the pre-converted’s heart toward God (or The Good) is not a determining factor in God’s ‘setting aside’. Just as David chose his warriors by whether they lapped water like a dog or not. David chose his warriors according to their disposition to act like warriors (being diligently constantly aware of one’s environment). One chooses or sets aside according to some common property or properties of the members of the larger set. Regarding salvation, theses properties at least include a disposition toward allegiance to Jesus of Nazareth and His identity as Divine Messiah realized in His rightful and His rule over them and the world at large.
As far as Paul goes, he was a chosen instrument, but his election is to be an instrument, not into salvation. Salvation may be entailed in his being an instrument, but it wasn't for someone like Cyrus. Furthermore there is no reason that Paul's calling needs to be universalized.
@Kiwi Guy I might be considered a calvinist by many, but I do not like to call myself that. I tend to use the word 'biblical' since it is what the bible clearly teaches. Moreover, Calvinism, ironacly did not start with Calvin, but was teached even by the great Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century. To respond to the quote of the Bible you gave: I do also hate division in the body. The war between Calvinism and Armenism is not over Who follows who, but over who believes the true words of Christ. And I think that if Paul were here, he would commend the act of defending sacred Scripture The reason why we call those teachings 'Calvinism' is because of hoq God used Calvin as a catalyst to bring back biblical teaching after the reign of the apostate church, the Roman Catholics. I do not know much of Calvin other than God used him to bring forth the reformation. He deffinatly was not a perfect man. (none of us are and most are worse than he is). Most "Calvinists" I know are sincere and faithful followers of CHRIST So in conclusion: Calvinism signifies the theology (which existed before Calvin and is found in the Bible), not the man. Most Calvinists do not know anything about Calvin other than that God used him. How can you be a follower of someone if you don't know anything about him?
@Kiwi Guy My original comment was written 4 months ago. During that time a grew more and learned more, that resulted in me changing my thinking on a few things, like calling myself a 5 point Calvinist. Honestly, I could also have called me a 5 point Christian. There are Reformers that have a high view of Calvin, but it is the same with all great men of the Church. That does not mean that they prefer one over the other or follow one and not the other. God used these different men and that is greatly admired by the reformers. It is the same that is done with Paul and Peter. Like I said, Calvinism was thought before Calvin. I doubt that Paul knew Calvin as he wrote Romans or any other of his works that contains the doctines of grace. Armenians was also a doctrine before Armenius. It was called pelagianism. A doctrine that is heresy to the core. Claiming that man does not need the grace of God to be saved. Armenians are not teaching that, so they are commonly called semi-pelagionist. It is impossible to not hold either of the two views. You might pick and choose the parts that you like but in the end it will hold inconsistent. There are many heresies in the Church and I think it can be clearly observed that today the church is facing alot of hersies of the past at the same time. I don't care what a mans dictionary defines heresy as. I simply see heresy as a diffrent gospel being preached. For the most part the same message is preached by Calvinist and Armenians. The problem is that Armenians contradict themselfs. They claim Gods soverngty, but also the absolute free will of man, when the bible teaches that we are dead IN sin and therefore slaves to it. I don't see them as heretics but they do sow much confusion. The doctrines of grace is clear in the bible. As long as you don't read your own meaning into the text. Now we all do it, but it is astonishing to see how much it is done by Armenians. Often using john 3:16 to make their point in saying that anybody can be saved," Whosoever believes" theh qoute. I do not deny that anybody can come to God seeking salvation. But the text no where teaches that man is then therefore saved by their own free will as is teached among Armenians. In fact Jesus teaches in the same book in John 6 that WHENEVER somebody comes to the Son, seeking salvation they came because the Father drawed them near. So to me, it is about who takes credit for salvation. Man or God. The reformers seem to suggest God
@Kiwi Guy firstly, I am sick and tired of getting in futile and fruitless debates on people on RUclips. I have no problem in defending and explaining what I believe and I will even enter into a debate, but not if it is going in a destructive path. We are brothers in Christ and should build each other up. Now that being said, I will now do my besy to respond. The Armenian doctrine can easely be defined as semi-pelagian. The big defining factor of a pelagian is is that they believe man can be saved without the grace of God, by only using their own FREE will. Now, Armenians will deny that whole heartedly. BUT they do believe thay the human FREE will plays a role in his salvation. In the end you get a synergistic salvation where God and man works together to bring forth salvation. Scripture clearly teaches that God ALONE is our saviour. I don't think that I should give scripture to even solidify the claim that God is the author and finisher of our faith. In conclusion, Armenians simply believes thay God is UNABLE to save unless the will of man is in agreement with the will of God to save ALL PEOPLE. Now to get to the second part. I don't claim to interpret scripture perfectly, but one thing I do know is that the Bible does not contradict itself. I do agree that Christ in a sense died for the whole world. But in what way? The death Jesus died for me and the blasphemer in hell is diffrent. Why? Simply because my will is to desire the glory of God more than the glory of myself. This was not my own doing but by that of the grace of God. The death of Christ is SUFFICIENT for the whole world. That is what I believe it means in the texts. The death of Christ is not a possible atonement for sin but a definite one. So if Christ death was for the whole world for the forgiveness of sins then why are they going to hell? Why do they still rebel against God? It would then simply mean that God has failed to bring about the salvation of man. This will result in the death of Christ not being enough and that salvation still requires the consent of the sinner. This is the belief of Armenians and it is why they are commonly referred to as semi-pelagians. The beliefs are very similar, but at its core it is fundamentally different. If you'd like you can correct my understanding, but this is only a brotherly discussion. Not an argument. To continue with the verses you gave me, it is speaking of every human being. But we can both agree that not all will be saved. One can then reasonably conclude that the death of Christ is SUFFICIENT for all but not EFFICIENT for all. (And when I say all I mean every human being on this planet right now, those who were and who are to come. Christ died is enough for all)
@Kiwi Guy I do not demonize Armenians, but I agree to move on Om the subject of limited atonement I am unfortunately not well educated in scripture to that regard. The doctrine of limited atonement is one doctrine that seems hard for me to develop in a scriptural stand point. In fact, that doctrine I wholy accepted because of philosophical thinking, in order to remain consistent with basic logic. That does not mean scripture doesn't teach it, but i do admit that it is hard for me to find any clear teaching on that specific doctrine. Whenever the death of Christ is mentioned in Scripture, it ALMOST always does it in reference to all of humanity. The thing is what do we do with that? Do we then conclude that all go to heaven? No, we both deny that. Well then the question is, is Christ's death enough? If it is, then why do most people go to hell? The atoning death of Christ can then only be reserved for believers or the elect for only they will enter heaven. The sacrificial deatn of Christ is for the whole world. They need only repent. But as Jesus teaches in John 6, they can come near only if the Father draws them near. Like I said, it was because of philosophical thinking and reasoning that I adopted the view. Scripturely I can defend the other 4 points but I do stuggle with this particular one. I will come back to you on the verses you gave me. I did not have the full amount of time to study it. You may freely respond to this comment if you wish but I will return with my scriptural defense. In the meantime you can engage me in the philosophical reasoning part of the debate of why if Christs death is for all men, then why do most go to hell? Is there something else required other than the death of Christ. This would mean that Christ death is not enough. If you will, you may respond to this while I build my scriptural defense on the doctrine of limited atonement
There is much to address as problematic. I appreciate your perspective and teaching but disagree on many things. It is hard to imagine when reading about Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus that anyone thinks Paul could have possibly said, “No Jesus, I am not going to do what you are demanding I do.” When Paul elsewhere says he did not disobey, does not necessarily mean he could have done so. He is simply confirming when God told him what he was going to do. He did it. There is no possible world where that could happen. Paul is the rule, not the exception when it comes to God saving his people.
If "No free will to choose" were true then the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment would be a joke. Think on these things:. how could souls be judged and held responsible if their actions had been predestined without free will? Is that just?
It doesn't say ' God' appointed anyone. Craig is assuming Acts 13.48 says ' God' appointed someone to eternal life. The context of Acts 13 is showing the contrast between those Jews and those Gentiles. One is ' tasso' and other is anti tasso. The gentiles are disposing themselves to hear the message again. They are pursuing the Gospel and wanting to hear it. They arrange themselves. As opposed to the Jews who are deeming themselves unworthy of eternal life. Craig has missed the actual context of chapter 13. Instead Craig wanders off into chapter 2 and 4 to explain chapter 13. Paul is chosen for service not salvation. Craig is assuming ' chosen to be saved'.
because God told Moses to tell Pharaoh that Israel was His Firstborn Son in Exodus chapter 4v22, and there are other twenty-one references to Israel being chosen forever to be His people, but there are as many references to God forsaking and destroying them, but let me just cite one of them and notice the word forever, in First Samuel chapter 2v30, God chose the house of Aaron to be his priests forever, but now God says because of their wickedness, He there will not be an old man in that house forever, and all your descendants shall die, followed by God promise of an eternal priesthood referring to the Lord Jesus
I think Judas is an example of someone who was chosen but became disobedient, he was chosen to be an apostle not chosen to be a traitor, i don't think he was really necessary as a traitor in the plan of salvation, if Judas hadn't become a traitor Jesus would still have redeemed mankind, certainly enough of people already wanted Him dead. I don't think God ever wants sin to occur. In the parable of the master's vineyard with evil tenants in Matthew 21 Jesus shows that God will punish the tenants for killing His Son. Jesus didn't commit suicide, He knew that His preaching would make Himself many enemies and if they killed Him He could redeem mankind if not i presume He could still have redeemed mankind, after all they say one drop of His blood was enough for our salvation. Calvary shows His infinite love though.
Jesus knew from the beginning who would not believe, and who would betray Him - John 6:64. Why would Jesus call Judas to be a disciple if He knew in advance that His association with Judah would only serve to further intensify his damnation? It would be far easier on Judas for eternity if Jesus didn't call him to be a disciple, and let Judas randomly betray Him 3 years later. Yet that's not what Jesus chose to do.
@@timffoster yes, Jesus knew who would not believe and who would betray Him. Jesus/God created Judas to be a great apostle, that was his vocation in life, his vocation in life was not the role of a traitor. I'm sure Jesus hoped that Judas would repent, i'd guess that Judas received more graces than any of the apostles and more attention from Jesus too. That's not what Jesus chose to do because Judas was created to be a great apostle, that was God's will for Judas. Judas was given all the graces he needed to be a great apostle but he rejected it in favour of selfishness. It can happen very easily. I don't believe the betrayal of Jesus by Judas was necessary for our salvation. I'm guessing Jesus could have redeemed us by suffering a terrible disease or by just being randomly murdered or even crucified in some way or another or by a terrible accident caused by demons or by natural disasters etc. I don't think God needs the devil or evil for anything. I think Jesus came to earth in a barbaric time in human history so that He would submit to the worst cruelty humans inflict on each other and thereby save humanity and show the depth of His love for us.
@@padraicmkelly Brace yourself: Read Psalms 109. It's called "The Iscariotic Psalm" because it's about Judas Iscariot. Peter read it and connected the dots: Judas was born for the purpose of betraying Jesus. [+]“Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David **concerning Judas**, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” ... “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’ (Acts 1:16-20) ..which is a quote from Ps 109. Here's what Peter [+]Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, **which Judas left to go where he belongs."** (Acts 1:24-25) The language there directly implies that Judas went exactly where he was predestined to go. It's in keeping with Peter's words in the next chapter on the day of Pentecost: ... [+]This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. (Acts 2:23) ..and here.. [+]who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit, “‘Why did the Gentiles rage, and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed’- for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever **your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.** (Acts 4:25-28) Conclusion: God panned and predestined [Peter's words] for Judas to betray Jesus.
@@timffoster ///Judas was born for the purpose of betraying Jesus.\\\ That's just so !!! God doesn't need the devil for anything. Judas wasn't predestined to go to hell, that's just crazy. I think you are implying that Jesus committed suicide or the Father killed Jesus. I wonder why Jesus said that the Father will punish those who killed His Son if it was really Himself who killed His Son?
@Padraic Kelly, May I share with you brother what I believe? =>>> Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...
God is so good as to raise up men Like WLC to equip the Church for the ministry and the ability to give an answer for the hope that is in us. May the Lord continue to bless him in all he does to glorify Christ and build up the Body for the work of the gospel.
Without having had these various possible theological positions fully explained to me I came to a conclusion in my own mind that something somewhere near Molinism best explains the information we can find in the Bible. This is despite never having heard of the guy's thoughts or writings. Calvinism falls a very long way short, in that, it uses a very small number of texts to defend it's theology while ignoring a vast number of texts that speak of genuine free will. As for what I understand Arminianism to be It is very true that much of the use of the words 'election' and 'predestination' refer to corporate purpose and not to individual salvation, however not every verse can be explained in this way.
I don't think we can possibly even dream to fully understand the mind of God this side of eternity but Molinism , for me, is the theological perspective that explains the largest amount of the available evidence.
I don’t come to the same conclusion that WLC does. But I love the guy and give him an A+ 100% for laying out the 2 views fairly and fully and for engaging us in this great study. God bless him and his ministry.
These video archives are invaluable!! Thank you for your commitment and service Dr.Craig .. you continue to make a dent in Christian history .. these videos will be referred to long after you have come to rest in the Lord.
@Documenting Ordinary Thoughts D.O.T., May I share to you what I believe? =>>> Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...
15:10 "God knew which people would freely respond to His grace and be saved, and who would reject it." Amen. This is not calvinism, not arminianism, no reason for us to argue over thoughts of men, just believe the scriptures and spread the Gospel, the love of Jesus.
@goodshorts, May I share to you what I believe? =>>> Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...
That's definitely not Calvinism. But how is that contrary to arminianism?
Great balance on the subject!
Me listening to first 2 minutes: I sense an incoming The Dividing Line.
Me listening to the next 3 minutes: ...and also an incoming Soteriology 101.
7:04 On foreordination in Acts: that pushes the question further-What is the basis of God's decision what he foreordained to take place? It's not enough to say that God has foreordained certain people, and that's it. Luke was encouraging the Gentile believers that God had foreordained them too, not just the Jewish believers. It goes to show that it is in the same strand with Romans 8:29-30.
Very helpful! Thank you.
God bless you my sprictual dad !!!
Thanks so much!
As regards Paul's call to service there is no doubt that God chooses men from among many to do service. This does not guarantee salvation for those persons (Ezekiel 3:17-18) but they are nonetheless chosen for particular services.
Acts 13:48 ¶ And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed
The ordination is found in the OT prophets.....
Mal 3:16 Then 👉🏻they that feared the LORD 👈🏻spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for 👉🏻them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.👈🏻
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Mal 4:2 But unto 👉🏻you that fear my name 👈🏻shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Isa 65:8 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for 👉🏻my servants' 👈🏻sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and 👉🏻mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants👈🏻 shall dwell there.
10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for👉🏻 my people that have sought me.👈🏻
11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, 👉🏻my servants 👈🏻shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and 👉🏻call his servants by another name:👈🏻
Those who feared God and served God were appointed to eternal life. It’s written in the prophets. So did they fear God?....
Acts 13:26 ¶ Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and 👉🏻whosoever among you feareth God, 👈🏻to you is the word of this salvation sent.
They were Gentiles who went to the synagogue on the Sabbath. Most likely they were seeking to become proselytes.
Yes they feared God. The Father gave all that we’re His to the Son. Jesus came to gather in one the children of God which were scattered abroad. They belonged to the Father and the Father gave them (and all things) to the Son.
God bless.
If it isn’t posible for the world to be arranged on a way for everybody to be saved, then on this view God would still be choosing to save some and no others.
Perhaps - a true free will is incompatible with a universally salvific world. But God in his gracious mercy and generosity endowed us with this true free will, even though He knew that some might choose to reject Him. However, I think we can honor Him by using this free will He so graciously gave us by choosing Him and having a blessed relationship with Him through Jesus Christ and with the power of the Holy Spirit.
@Bible MUsings, May I share to you what I believe? =>>> Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...
Acts 13:48 - the Greek word tasso is understood to be in the Middle voice or Passive voice. WLC for reasons unknown ignores the Middle voice interpretation. When understood in the Middle voice, this would mean that As many as Ordained themselves to eternal life Believed
Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...
Acts 2:23 - That Jesus would be crucified was predetermined. This is in keeping with Jesus's own libertarian free will determining His own future since Jesus is a member of the Godhead. That Peter's audience would be the ones doing the Crucifixion is not mentioned as being predetermined
This is the right tranlation of the Greek Text:
Acts 13:48 Filos Και ακούγοντας οι εθνικοί χαίρονταν και δόξαζαν τον λόγο τού Κυρίου· και πίστεψαν όσοι είχαν τάξει τον εαυτό τους για την αιώνια ζωή.
(Acts13:48 [TRa]) Ἀκούοντα δὲ τὰ ἔθνη ἔχαιρον, καὶ ἐδόξαζον τὸν λόγον τοῦ Κυρίου, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Luke’s use of passive does not mean necessarily that the disposition of the pre-converted’s heart toward God (or The Good) is not a determining factor in God’s ‘setting aside’. Just as David chose his warriors by whether they lapped water like a dog or not. David chose his warriors according to their disposition to act like warriors (being diligently constantly aware of one’s environment). One chooses or sets aside according to some common property or properties of the members of the larger set. Regarding salvation, theses properties at least include a disposition toward allegiance to Jesus of Nazareth and His identity as Divine Messiah realized in His rightful and His rule over them and the world at large.
spanish please
As far as Paul goes, he was a chosen instrument, but his election is to be an instrument, not into salvation. Salvation may be entailed in his being an instrument, but it wasn't for someone like Cyrus. Furthermore there is no reason that Paul's calling needs to be universalized.
I like how the conversation comes to a head as to how to reconcile the issue then WLC is like “Cue MOLINISM”
It is because of Dr graig that I'm a 5 point Calvinist today
Haha!
@Kiwi Guy I might be considered a calvinist by many, but I do not like to call myself that. I tend to use the word 'biblical' since it is what the bible clearly teaches. Moreover, Calvinism, ironacly did not start with Calvin, but was teached even by the great Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century.
To respond to the quote of the Bible you gave: I do also hate division in the body. The war between Calvinism and Armenism is not over Who follows who, but over who believes the true words of Christ. And I think that if Paul were here, he would commend the act of defending sacred Scripture
The reason why we call those teachings 'Calvinism' is because of hoq God used Calvin as a catalyst to bring back biblical teaching after the reign of the apostate church, the Roman Catholics.
I do not know much of Calvin other than God used him to bring forth the reformation. He deffinatly was not a perfect man. (none of us are and most are worse than he is).
Most "Calvinists" I know are sincere and faithful followers of CHRIST
So in conclusion: Calvinism signifies the theology (which existed before Calvin and is found in the Bible), not the man. Most Calvinists do not know anything about Calvin other than that God used him. How can you be a follower of someone if you don't know anything about him?
@Kiwi Guy My original comment was written 4 months ago. During that time a grew more and learned more, that resulted in me changing my thinking on a few things, like calling myself a 5 point Calvinist.
Honestly, I could also have called me a 5 point Christian.
There are Reformers that have a high view of Calvin, but it is the same with all great men of the Church. That does not mean that they prefer one over the other or follow one and not the other. God used these different men and that is greatly admired by the reformers. It is the same that is done with Paul and Peter.
Like I said, Calvinism was thought before Calvin. I doubt that Paul knew Calvin as he wrote Romans or any other of his works that contains the doctines of grace. Armenians was also a doctrine before Armenius. It was called pelagianism. A doctrine that is heresy to the core. Claiming that man does not need the grace of God to be saved. Armenians are not teaching that, so they are commonly called semi-pelagionist.
It is impossible to not hold either of the two views. You might pick and choose the parts that you like but in the end it will hold inconsistent.
There are many heresies in the Church and I think it can be clearly observed that today the church is facing alot of hersies of the past at the same time. I don't care what a mans dictionary defines heresy as. I simply see heresy as a diffrent gospel being preached. For the most part the same message is preached by Calvinist and Armenians. The problem is that Armenians contradict themselfs. They claim Gods soverngty, but also the absolute free will of man, when the bible teaches that we are dead IN sin and therefore slaves to it. I don't see them as heretics but they do sow much confusion.
The doctrines of grace is clear in the bible. As long as you don't read your own meaning into the text. Now we all do it, but it is astonishing to see how much it is done by Armenians. Often using john 3:16 to make their point in saying that anybody can be saved," Whosoever believes" theh qoute. I do not deny that anybody can come to God seeking salvation. But the text no where teaches that man is then therefore saved by their own free will as is teached among Armenians. In fact Jesus teaches in the same book in John 6 that WHENEVER somebody comes to the Son, seeking salvation they came because the Father drawed them near.
So to me, it is about who takes credit for salvation. Man or God.
The reformers seem to suggest God
@Kiwi Guy firstly, I am sick and tired of getting in futile and fruitless debates on people on RUclips. I have no problem in defending and explaining what I believe and I will even enter into a debate, but not if it is going in a destructive path. We are brothers in Christ and should build each other up.
Now that being said, I will now do my besy to respond.
The Armenian doctrine can easely be defined as semi-pelagian. The big defining factor of a pelagian is is that they believe man can be saved without the grace of God, by only using their own FREE will. Now, Armenians will deny that whole heartedly. BUT they do believe thay the human FREE will plays a role in his salvation. In the end you get a synergistic salvation where God and man works together to bring forth salvation. Scripture clearly teaches that God ALONE is our saviour. I don't think that I should give scripture to even solidify the claim that God is the author and finisher of our faith. In conclusion, Armenians simply believes thay God is UNABLE to save unless the will of man is in agreement with the will of God to save ALL PEOPLE.
Now to get to the second part.
I don't claim to interpret scripture perfectly, but one thing I do know is that the Bible does not contradict itself.
I do agree that Christ in a sense died for the whole world. But in what way? The death Jesus died for me and the blasphemer in hell is diffrent. Why? Simply because my will is to desire the glory of God more than the glory of myself. This was not my own doing but by that of the grace of God.
The death of Christ is SUFFICIENT for the whole world. That is what I believe it means in the texts. The death of Christ is not a possible atonement for sin but a definite one. So if Christ death was for the whole world for the forgiveness of sins then why are they going to hell? Why do they still rebel against God? It would then simply mean that God has failed to bring about the salvation of man. This will result in the death of Christ not being enough and that salvation still requires the consent of the sinner. This is the belief of Armenians and it is why they are commonly referred to as semi-pelagians. The beliefs are very similar, but at its core it is fundamentally different. If you'd like you can correct my understanding, but this is only a brotherly discussion. Not an argument.
To continue with the verses you gave me, it is speaking of every human being. But we can both agree that not all will be saved. One can then reasonably conclude that the death of Christ is SUFFICIENT for all but not EFFICIENT for all. (And when I say all I mean every human being on this planet right now, those who were and who are to come. Christ died is enough for all)
@Kiwi Guy I do not demonize Armenians, but I agree to move on
Om the subject of limited atonement I am unfortunately not well educated in scripture to that regard. The doctrine of limited atonement is one doctrine that seems hard for me to develop in a scriptural stand point. In fact, that doctrine I wholy accepted because of philosophical thinking, in order to remain consistent with basic logic. That does not mean scripture doesn't teach it, but i do admit that it is hard for me to find any clear teaching on that specific doctrine. Whenever the death of Christ is mentioned in Scripture, it ALMOST always does it in reference to all of humanity. The thing is what do we do with that? Do we then conclude that all go to heaven? No, we both deny that. Well then the question is, is Christ's death enough? If it is, then why do most people go to hell?
The atoning death of Christ can then only be reserved for believers or the elect for only they will enter heaven. The sacrificial deatn of Christ is for the whole world. They need only repent. But as Jesus teaches in John 6, they can come near only if the Father draws them near.
Like I said, it was because of philosophical thinking and reasoning that I adopted the view. Scripturely I can defend the other 4 points but I do stuggle with this particular one.
I will come back to you on the verses you gave me. I did not have the full amount of time to study it. You may freely respond to this comment if you wish but I will return with my scriptural defense. In the meantime you can engage me in the philosophical reasoning part of the debate of why if Christs death is for all men, then why do most go to hell? Is there something else required other than the death of Christ. This would mean that Christ death is not enough. If you will, you may respond to this while I build my scriptural defense on the doctrine of limited atonement
There is much to address as problematic. I appreciate your perspective and teaching but disagree on many things. It is hard to imagine when reading about Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus that anyone thinks Paul could have possibly said, “No Jesus, I am not going to do what you are demanding I do.” When Paul elsewhere says he did not disobey, does not necessarily mean he could have done so. He is simply confirming when God told him what he was going to do. He did it. There is no possible world where that could happen. Paul is the rule, not the exception when it comes to God saving his people.
If "No free will to choose" were true then the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment would be a joke. Think on these things:. how could souls be judged and held responsible if their actions had been predestined without free will? Is that just?
It doesn't say ' God' appointed anyone. Craig is assuming Acts 13.48 says ' God' appointed someone to eternal life. The context of Acts 13 is showing the contrast between those Jews and those Gentiles. One is ' tasso' and other is anti tasso. The gentiles are disposing themselves to hear the message again. They are pursuing the Gospel and wanting to hear it. They arrange themselves. As opposed to the Jews who are deeming themselves unworthy of eternal life. Craig has missed the actual context of chapter 13. Instead Craig wanders off into chapter 2 and 4 to explain chapter 13.
Paul is chosen for service not salvation. Craig is assuming ' chosen to be saved'.
Paul had God come down to him, literally. How could you not believe at that point? None of us get that honor or privilege. It’s frustrating to me.
because God told Moses to tell Pharaoh that Israel was His Firstborn Son in Exodus chapter 4v22, and there are other twenty-one references to Israel being chosen forever to be His people, but there are as many references to God forsaking and destroying them, but let me just cite one of them and notice the word forever, in First Samuel chapter 2v30, God chose the house of Aaron to be his priests forever, but now God says because of their wickedness, He there will not be an old man in that house forever, and all your descendants shall die, followed by God promise of an eternal priesthood referring to the Lord Jesus
I think Judas is an example of someone who was chosen but became disobedient, he was chosen to be an apostle not chosen to be a traitor, i don't think he was really necessary as a traitor in the plan of salvation, if Judas hadn't become a traitor Jesus would still have redeemed mankind, certainly enough of people already wanted Him dead.
I don't think God ever wants sin to occur. In the parable of the master's vineyard with evil tenants in Matthew 21 Jesus shows that God will punish the tenants for killing His Son. Jesus didn't commit suicide, He knew that His preaching would make Himself many enemies and if they killed Him He could redeem mankind if not i presume He could still have redeemed mankind, after all they say one drop of His blood was enough for our salvation. Calvary shows His infinite love though.
Jesus knew from the beginning who would not believe, and who would betray Him - John 6:64.
Why would Jesus call Judas to be a disciple if He knew in advance that His association with Judah would only serve to further intensify his damnation? It would be far easier on Judas for eternity if Jesus didn't call him to be a disciple, and let Judas randomly betray Him 3 years later.
Yet that's not what Jesus chose to do.
@@timffoster yes, Jesus knew who would not believe and who would betray Him.
Jesus/God created Judas to be a great apostle, that was his vocation in life, his vocation in life was not the role of a traitor. I'm sure Jesus hoped that Judas would repent, i'd guess that Judas received more graces than any of the apostles and more attention from Jesus too.
That's not what Jesus chose to do because Judas was created to be a great apostle, that was God's will for Judas. Judas was given all the graces he needed to be a great apostle but he rejected it in favour of selfishness. It can happen very easily. I don't believe the betrayal of Jesus by Judas was necessary for our salvation. I'm guessing Jesus could have redeemed us by suffering a terrible disease or by just being randomly murdered or even crucified in some way or another or by a terrible accident caused by demons or by natural disasters etc. I don't think God needs the devil or evil for anything. I think Jesus came to earth in a barbaric time in human history so that He would submit to the worst cruelty humans inflict on each other and thereby save humanity and show the depth of His love for us.
@@padraicmkelly Brace yourself: Read Psalms 109. It's called "The Iscariotic Psalm" because it's about Judas Iscariot.
Peter read it and connected the dots: Judas was born for the purpose of betraying Jesus.
[+]“Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David **concerning Judas**, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” ... “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’ (Acts 1:16-20) ..which is a quote from Ps 109.
Here's what Peter
[+]Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, **which Judas left to go where he belongs."** (Acts 1:24-25)
The language there directly implies that Judas went exactly where he was predestined to go.
It's in keeping with Peter's words in the next chapter on the day of Pentecost: ...
[+]This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. (Acts 2:23)
..and here..
[+]who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit, “‘Why did the Gentiles rage, and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed’- for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever **your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.** (Acts 4:25-28)
Conclusion: God panned and predestined [Peter's words] for Judas to betray Jesus.
@@timffoster ///Judas was born for the purpose of betraying Jesus.\\\
That's just so !!!
God doesn't need the devil for anything.
Judas wasn't predestined to go to hell, that's just crazy.
I think you are implying that Jesus committed suicide or the Father killed Jesus. I wonder why Jesus said that the Father will punish those who killed His Son if it was really Himself who killed His Son?
@Padraic Kelly, May I share with you brother what I believe? =>>> Thank you Dr. Craig for your beautiful information regarding the beliefs of Calvinist, Arminian, and Molinist... Yes, indeed those knowledge of those three groups of thought are not enough to understand why God choose some to be saved and not the others too... In other words Why some are saved and some are not when God desires that every one be saved...=>>> Your example also that there are elected but rejects God, like you said Paul could have rejected it, but he didn't... But the good example of that was Jonah who was elected by God to preach in Nineveh, but he disobeyed God... =>>> However, there are two kinds of Election in the bible... The Election for Salvation in which nobody has rejected and the Election for Service where it is possible that some could reject it like Jonah... =>>>> If you read the Parable of the 'Wheat and Tares' in Matthew 13:24-43 (KJV), You can easily solve the problem that perplex the Calvinist, Arminian and the Molinist... In this parable, Jesus has revealed that regarding Salvation, there are Only two(2) kinds of people in the world... In this parable Jesus called them 'Wheat and Tares'... Sometimes Jesus called them 'Sheep and Goats'... The Wheat(Elect) are the True Children of God since the foundation of the world... And the Tares(Reprobates) are the children of the devil sown by the devil himself to this world since the beginning... Definitely, God predestined all His True Children to be saved... and Predestined all the children of the devil to be cast to the lake of fire... Not one of the children of God will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of God that Loves God and Jesus... And all the children of the devil will reject the gospel of Jesus because they have the character of the devil and hate God and Jesus... =>>> EXAMPLE of the children of the devil: Cain, Judas, and Some of the pharisees to whom Jesus said: ''you are of your father the devil(John 8:44)... =>>> In verse 35 of this parable, It is said that this Revelation of Jesus has been 'KEPT SECRET' since the foundation of the world but was revealed to us by Jesus before His death at the cross... Therefore you cannot find any reference regarding this Revelation of Jesus in the Old Testament, because even the prophets and OT saints did not know about this Revelation of Jesus... =>>> 'Thanks for Reading'...