Hello Saints LIVE Q&A - Virtual Summit Day 6
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- Опубликовано: 15 июн 2024
- Join Pastor Jeff and his wife Joy as they discuss interfaith dialogue between Latter-day Saints and Evangelicals. We'll also be joined by other guests who are speakers and presenters in the Hello Saints Virtual Summit. You can learn more at www.HelloSaintsSummit.com
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Hey, my family moved to Utah a few years ago! I was a prodigal son, and even fought against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but God woke me up. He showed me through His Spirit that the Book of Mormon is true, so it was an easy decision to come back. The Word of Wisdom keeps me healthy. I'm in my 30's, with three grandparents still...but there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about my grandpa. I'm so grateful for the knowledge of eternal families.
Godbless your journey “Seek ye the truth, and the truth will set you free”
A great guest would be Sandra Tanner..she helped me on an awesome journey..(32 Years)
I have a similar story. Thanks for sharing.
Adam & eve will not progress and cannot bear children's without the fall.
Orsen F. Whitney said, “God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of his great and marvelous work . . . It is too vast, too arduous, for any one people.”
It is so important that we all listen and try and understand each other with respect and love each other as we are. You are all doing a great job. There is so much we can do to love a respect each other. We do not know all the answers what is most important is their is a God that Jesus is the Christ. And we are totally dependent on His gift of the atonement that our Saviour blessed us with.
My favorite part: Life is real right now. I love that you are putting your kids first !!!!! I appreciate how you are encouraging relationships among members of your faith and Latter-day Saints. We are living in a crazy time of several turbulent wars, an election year and many lawsuits that drive division. You are promoting harmony and helping everyone to seek common ground. Thank you for bringing the world together and helping us look to the Savior as our example!!!!!
The church of Jesus Christ never taught that Christ was the second plan. NEVER NEVER.
The biggest difference is Jesus Is our Messiah; we are set free..Many Christians align with a virgin birth.. LDS believe Jesus was conceived just like we were..He had a holy Mother..(Gospel Principles)
I have really enjoying this summit, it has been very fascinating, informative conversation between you all. Todd, you just shine so much with all of your answers, truly inspiring. Thank you all for teaching me so much and giving your time to teach us all who have come to watch. I like, you all, love My Saviour Jesus Christ, I believe in His plan and I love that you have all been brought together and share the love that we all should have for each other. I am so grateful as an LDS member to have so much love for everyone no matter who they are. Our Saviour Jesus Christ is the perfect example of who I want to become. As I keep striving to keep loving, serving everyone around me even my enemies I know I am on the right path. I am so grateful that through the atonement of Our Saviour Jesus Christ I can change within and keep striving to become more like Him. Thank you all again, much love for all the work you are all doing in this world right now. This is a time when we need to love, share, learn, grow and come together as we are all strive to serve Our Saviour Jesus Christ. ❤️
Thank you Jeff. Having the discussion was excellent. Being LDS and being a part member family I understand both side.
A 6 year old child who is innocent has a relationship with her mother, but it is limited in that the child only sees what the mother does for her. The child instinctively expects care, food, and nurturing. She has no understanding of what the mother provides for her on a daily basis, what she sacrifices and goes through. She expects, and hopefully receives, what she needs, but it is mostly an unaware, selfish love. A grown child also has a relationship with her mother, and understands her on a much deeper level, having matured and progressed and undergone many of the same experiences. She understands what her mother has done for her, has experienced her personality, and really knows who she is a a deeper level. She can appreciate and be grateful. At both ages, the child loves the mother, but only when she is older does she understand why she loves her mother. Adam and Eve were in a state of innocence. Yes, they had a relationship with God, but their relationship grew deeper after they had transgressed and had to depend on Him without taking it for granted as they had in the garden, where everything was magically provided. The fall was worth the deeper relationship we build with Christ and the Father.
Wow! Love your words mr. Johnson. I am a once, catholic, once Mormon and now, a born again believer...
I was once a Pentacostal, once a Mormon and now a born-again believer too, (but still a devote member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)
I was once Catholic, once Protestant, now LDS. I consider all Christians as my brothers. I love this discussion.
Remember, we are preparing the world for the second coming, those who will be lifted up with us, to meet the Savior and be with us in the Millennium will include all the good and honorable people of the earth. Likely their numbers will vastly outnumber the actual Saints. This type of outreach is part of the gathering where honorable Christians will gather with us to build the New Jerusalem, and shelter with us while the whole world is at war. This is how we become close with them now so they will be comfortable coming with us to Jackson County.
Amazing discussions! And yes the good coming from all of this is our love for Jesus!
What a beautiful conversation. Thank you all for these insights. Let’s continue to have such talks, with God’s love present for each other.
I’m a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ of LDS. It wasn’t discussed, but wanted to put it out there, that out of the many reasons our Heavenly Father created this earthly plan for us was to come and gain a body, to be like His body. This is revealed with our Savior being born of the virgin Mary and again when our Savior regains His resurrected eternal body.
I know, Eve, partaking of the fruit was sad in tearing us from the presence of God, but I see that it was a necessary step in our own transformation and experience.
God created this world with purpose and put forth a Savior, knowing we would fall from His presence, but we were just spirit beings (intelligences) before. We now can return to Him with a body that can be resurrected.
I’m grateful for the eternal spiritual being I am, that is having this physical experience, and the knowledge of how to return safely to the presence of our Heavenly Father, only through Jesus Christ.
God bless you and your family. Thank you for the sacrifices you make for good, Godly conversations.
I’m learning so much from it.
Love this format. As an LDS believer, I feel strongly that any effort made to understand other religions besides my own is of great value. Keep it going lads and lassies.
Todd McLauchlin should have RUclips channel
Good news, he does! ;) Come join us at Shattering Triangles.
@@ShatteringTriangles is this his Channel?
@@kuyalems yes!
Todd, you were fantastic and spoke with the spirit. I loved your perspectives!
Question for protestants? Why did God allow the tree of knowledge and Satan into the Garden to tempt. God could have excluded them in His omniscience especially if His ultimate goal was the Garden as an end and not a means.
Also, when it comes to salvation, is the resurrection that all who physically die are promised not a form of salvation? I think Immortally is half of what God through Christ gifted us. Even if it’s only the physical side of salvation- to me it’s still a part of being restored and saved.
Jeremiah 1:5 talks about how knew him ,before being born on mortality, also the book of revelation talks about the fallen angels and Satan , Greg nailed it but in general all of you did great , thank you for everything you do
I also think that theres a lot of really good truth to the idea of pulling Heaven's light into this world, to improve and lift this world to be more like heaven
All of you are wonderful for lovingly coming together and having a discussion to identify those points of differences in the Garden where we differ. However, this loving approach has illuminated the intense love for our Savior that all of you bring to the table….. and that love for Jesus and what we all agree He did for us, binds us together as Children of an Eternal Heavenly Father.
I love that you guys are talking and increasing the love among brothers and sisters.
Was it Paster Greg Johnson who mentioned having conversations with Robert Millet? Paster Jeff. Could I suggest a great reading by Robert Millet, Grace Works? He takes the reader through the journey of the chasm between orthodox faith and works vs LDS view on the principle of faith and works. He starts out by explaining the conundrum from both sides, and even admits, that when it comes to grace and works, LDS may very well under-appreciate the significance of grace. I think this would be very useful to help learn more about this from an LDS scholar.
This was SUCH a good conversation. I feel like we are trying to come to the same center point, but going about it a different way.
I *LOVE* the analogy of being rescued by the coastguard! From an LDS context, to break down the aspects of that that I think then fit into our theology is that Christ offers the rescue (his hand is outstretched still), but we do have to use our agency to grab on, and accept that rescue. We first have to accept that we need that help, and believe that this offered basket or hand will be able to save us enough to act on it (faith), and then act on that faith and engage with it (baptism - or the work that is a manifestation of your faith, faith being a word of action more than just belief). However, no matter how much we 'grab' at a rescue (do a work), it wouldn't matter if Christ hadn't performed the atonement. Fortunately He did :). However, once we grab on, we are *not yet* out of danger. At that point we need to keep holding on. And in order to help us secure ourselves even more firmly to this rescue, we may attach ropes or harnesses (again, only available because of Christ's offering of them to us to use). These help us to continue to hold on. But even after all of that, Christ will not *compel* us to be saved, and will leave to us the agency to let go of His hand, detach any extra securing methods, and turn away from Him. He will always be begging us to hold on, and even if we ever let go in any capacity, He will continue to offer the rescue (his hand is outstretched still).
And in that, I still completely agree that it would be foolish to indicate that you saved yourself in any way, because it was Christ who came, provided help, and lifted you up. However, you can acknowledge that you had to do *something* to accept that help, and continue to receive that help as he lifts you up. You can be pleased that you accepted the gifts of harnesses or ropes to further secure you to Him, and share with others that these additional actions that He offered were helpful. He alone made that even possible, and deserves all of the credit, for with out Him, it would not have happened. But we are still asked to engage, to act, and show that we choose to be saved, and improve ourselves so that we might be a help to others around us. And in not only performing that action, but to not at least mention that we had to take those actions, others *could* interpret that as an indication that He will come and with no effort on our part, pull us to salvation. (that is not to take away from the fact that in our weakness, we might ask Him for His help, where he might pick us up with only our desire to be saved, and gives us His strength to perform the actions needed to keep us connected to him. too many nuanced aspects for one analogy to be perfect for the entirety of the plan :D)
did you ever finish the book of Mormon?? been waiting for so long for your next reaction!!!
The next release…
1:13:04 This is a perfect analogy for how we view works and grace. Grace is the basket offered to us by the Coast Guard/Jesus, and works is the action to place your faith and hold onto that grace/basket.
Joy would be a great RS or Primary prez. Jmo.
I have loved watching and listening to all of you. You all exemplify Christ. I see a glimpse all of your hearts and you are all devoted to him. I hope we can start focusing on what we have in common ( which is a lot) and come together in Christ. I think that will make Him happy. I believe He loves to see his children love each other. Thank you all for a very uplifting and inspiring evening.
Thanks so much for the summit so far. It has been great. While I believe that most of the presentations could be edited to be more concise and I have missed the double speed option when not on RUclips, i have still enjoyed the summit and I am looking forward to the week ahead. The love towards Jesus Christ has been expressed on most of the videos.
If you make the summit videos full screen, it does give you the option for double speed.
Wonderful conversation!
I think an important question to ask is, did Adam and Eve change and disrupt the course of God’s Plan? This was a discussion I had multiple times on my LDS mission in South Carolina among predominantly Protestants and Evangelicals and I could never get a clear answer.
Great dialogue and discussion.
Awesome question! I think a lot of us have asked it. I was born and raised LDS and this past year I have attended the temple more than in my whole adult life put together which is very few times. I regret I didn't attend more often to receive the strengthening power and enlightenment for my life! I believe Adam and Eve walked and talked with God in the Garden for a long time before they ate the fruit. I think God taught them His plan and their essential role in it and taught them about the choice that would be presented. The account in Genesis is so very limited! I think if anything they both understood what the plan was but perhaps Eve had more faith and trust in God than Adam did and could understand the eternal perspective. After all the garden was very comfortable and easy! Eve was willing to go thru adversity and opposition and trusted that Jesus Christ would do what God promised he would and she was willing to take that leap of faith!
1:24:00 It is important to note that Satan always tempts people with what they really want. Eve sincerely wanted to be as God. She wanted to grow. She was perhaps frustrated with the process. I say process as we believe that Adam and Eve were being taught in the Garden by God. And look what Satan tempted Heavenly Father with in the pre-existence: "Send me and I will make sure they all come home." The one thing God wanted...for us all to come home. It really says something about the nature of Satan.
Todd is really striving to show kindness and is careful not to offend anyone. Our Heavenly Father is incredibly organized. Understanding the true depth of love isn't enough, my friends. Our time on earth is a period of trials and growth. It's like needing a passport-being kind alone won't get you one if you don't follow the required steps. If humans can establish these rules, imagine how much more our all-powerful Creator.
Just telling an immigration officer you're kind and loving won't grant you a passport. Similarly, we must follow God's commandments and show love to Him and others. There's so much we must do to be with Him eternally. Performing ordinances demonstrates our commitment to growing our faith. How can we strengthen our faith without following His commandments and ordinances?
I am not trying to win here, but sharing the Gospel is one way showing love.. I hope this summit will continue
Pastor Jeff - there wasn’t a link to comment that I could find on your summit podcast but I really enjoyed the discussion about truth. In D&C Section 93 there is an excellent revelation on the definition of truth.
24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;
25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.
26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;
To me this is the crux of the discussion. Without defining truth one can’t really have a conversation about it. I used this while serving my mission in Japan when I met with a sect of Buddhism known as Soka Gakai. They patterned their religious organization after the LDS Church and when meeting with them it was an interesting experience and discussion of what they and we believe. I hope you’ll take time to study D&C 93 so you can better understand the LDS perspective.
1:44:55 Discussing if the fall hadn't happened goes to the heart of trying to understand the protestant perspective on God's plan. This shouldn't be that difficult to answer, unless you don't know what God's plan is.
Oh Jeff... James Spencer answered that question in his book Beyond Mormonism an Elders story, he said truth without love is too hard but love without truth is too soft. He became a pastor later in life as well in idaho. I've commented before you should check out his books.
In trying to contextualize the idea of potentially getting a chance to accept the gospel after they die comes from Alma, who mentions that when we die, the same spirit that possesses our body at that time (and I take that as indicating our desires and intentions) will be the spirit we are after death, into our resurrection. So more than the ordinances specifically, if we have worked to make ourselves humble and willing to accept Christ, he will make sure that any other technical details are taken care of (enter temple work and the millennium). Just because they are required, and by our understanding require a physical body, doesn't prevent us from receiving Christ's grace and salvation if we didn't get a chance to. What will actually get in our way is being too prideful to accept the gospel even at that point. So the important thing is to work on being humble and willing to learn, which I think that many of the ordinances do. And beyond any aspect of 'box checking' that may be involved, I do think that a big part of the reason that Christ commands us to perform these ordinances and works is firstly as demonstrations of our conversion, and secondly trying to ensure that we maintain that conversion throughout our lives.
I believe the LDS church baptize not until eight. We all need to be civil. But always listen and respect each other.
I enjoyed this live presentation with all the speakers. I must commend Pastor Jeff and Joy on their skill and ability to facilitate these types of conversations. It seems this is the first time I've seen Pastor Jeff get more "real" with the obvious divide between the two faith communities... all the while maintaining the gracious and humble curious attitude for role modeling the civil conversations. Outside of this, I think the major takeaway of the Summit is to help bring more civil clarity on the obvious divide between the LDS' version of Mormonism and that of traditional Christianity. We can all love our neighbors - whether they be Muslim, Jewish, Jehovah Witnesses, LDS, or whatever.
1:25:00 Beguiled. How? Satan takes on the form of a serpent. The serpent later represents Christ. Did Satan take on a form that Eve recognized? If not a form...the likeness or disguise?
Brother Jeff,
Do you believe members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are Christian? I would love to hear back from you on this. I ask because you get quite a bit of "they are not Christians" in the comments and you never comment to defend The Church.
He has said that we are Christian. He also has acknowledged we have the same historic Jesus but differ on other aspects of the nature of Christ which we frankly do.
@@BrianTerrill Thank you. I have asked him multiple times with no comment. To be honest I have been quite skeptical of him because of that. Thank you again for responding to me.
@@Aaron-vx1vcI am very skeptical of him because I had a feeling his initial purpose of investigating the church is to find something to criticize. I enjoy David Boice vlog better. He is more sincere and not too obsessed with doctrine.
I really enjoyed this discussion! My favorite was Todd. He speaks my language! I agreed with everything he said. Just subscribed to his channel
These are the Conversations that are happening on the other Side of the Veil !!
Why would God even put a tree of knowledge of good and evil if He didn't want Adam and Eve to partake? Couldn't He just not put the tree there? If He is all knowing and wasn't surprised by the fact that they did partake, why wouldn't He just not put the tree there? If that was the cause of all the evil and horrible things that would come into this world, why would God create that? Seems like He was either not very smart, or He doesn't like us very much to put us through that, or He had a reason for doing all of that and it was part of a greater plan.
I really appreciate the conversations that are happening. I love thinking through the differences and similarities and how we can all get along better even though we don't agree on all things. That doesn't mean that can't have civil conversations.
58:24 I would say that yes, that is what Latter-day Saints believe and that is what the bible teaches as well. See 1 Peter 3:19, 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Corinthians 15.
So… LDS member here. Genuine question. So are protestants vision of heaven going back to the garden forever? I’m confused.
The question I’ve asked myself (as another Member of Christ’s Restored Church) is ‘do I believe the same thing myself?’ Matt 5: 5 “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.”
The kingdoms of Glory seem to be more about the King and receiving His Glory than they are about location.
Back to the garden in the sense that we dwell in God's presence, but with a new human nature. Adam would not have died if he hadn't fallen, but he wasn't immortal. He wasn't born with a sin nature, but he wasn't incorruptible. We believe that we will add these two elements to our human nature. We call this glorification.
1:02:17 The only place in the scriptures that say "by faith only/alone" is in James 2:24 and it is preceded by "NOT", in other words the bible disagrees with Pastor Greg Johnson. I would encourage all to read all of James 2 to better understand how grace and works work together. They do not have to be contradictory, and you do not have to choose one or the other. They work together as they should.
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." James 2:24
52:07 The LDS belief that the just AND the unjust will be resurrected which will be followed by judgement: is supported by Acts 24:14-15
"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."
If you want to call this universalism, that's your call. But this is what the scriptures say.
2:00:54 Interesting perspective. I'm not going to deny that there is likely unhealthy communication from both sides, but (maybe I'm biased here) my experience has been that it is not proportional in the slightest sense. One of the reasons Hello Saints has been such a success (besides that Pastor Jeff is an excellent communicator) is because Jeff has been such a divergence from the status quo of evangelical interaction with latter-day saints. I'm not saying that Greg Johnson is saying that the unkindness is proportional on both sides, but it just sounded that way to me.
6:51 start
If Adam and Eve had a perfect relationship with God, then why would they have partaken of the fruit?
The better question would be, why God doesn't allow Adam and Eve to eat the fruit of Tree of knowledge of good and evil.? God declared that when Adam and Eve eat it, they become like God. Does God doesn’t want us to have knowledge of good and evil? If yes, then there should be a need of a Savior or Redeemer.
@@kaduyantv2857 God told them if they ate it they would surely die. Satan said they would have knowledge and be as the gods knowing good from evil, God later confirms that part to be true. Satan never flat out lies, he uses half-truths, the lie was they would not surely die.
@@kaduyantv2857 God forbids it, He doesn't not allow it. There is a difference. If God did not allow it, they wouldn't have the choice to partake in the first place. His forbiddance served as a caution and a lesson on consequences. Something to instill the total reality of their choice.
God is Immortal and has perfect knowledge. He desires us to be even as He is.
God intended for Adam and Eve to be both Immortal and have knowledge of Good and Evil. They were immortal in the Garden but without knowledge. When they fell, they had knowledge but were not immortal. Christ was the only way they could have both.
1:22:37 I think a good couple of questions to ask yourself to see your understanding of the nature and character of God is "Was the original plan to have us all living in the Garden of Eden with God? If so does that make Jesus the backup plan?"
For Latter-day Saints the answer is a resounding no to both. Jesus is not the backup plan. He is THE plan. I don't think I can see a scenario where you can say that both of these statements are true.
1. the fall was not part of the plan
2. Jesus was not the backup plan
Wasn't a big fan of Mike insinuating that the LDS doctrine of Eternal Marriage was believed by LDS members simply because it's "easy on the ears". There are too many "hard on the ears" doctrines in LDS Theology to give such a comment any merit.
1:55:14 BAM Todd hit the nail on the head there. It all comes down to that question. Was Jesus plan B?
🥲
Evangelicals and LDS are both coming from a place of believing and even knowing truth. Evangelicals know and hold to the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ. LDS know and the same as it is declared in the Book of Mormon...which is true. Evangelicals think that the Book of Mormon is not scripture....which is false. LDS believe that they are led by a true prophet and that the Covenant Path leads to eternal life...which are false. Progress can be made in interfaith dialogue between Evangelicals and LDS when the narrow path between...the Doctrine of Christ.
1:05:00 Once again the bible disagrees with Greg Johnson. Jesus taught that unless you are born of the water and the spirit you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Also Jesus commanded the apostles "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world" Matthew 28:19 (I doubt Jesus would command this just because it's a "nice to have" work). Also, 1 Peter 3:21 says "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also". What more evidence do you need?
LDS leaders never discuss how a man is justified before God in a Pauline sense( justification by faith) . Because that is not LDS theology. They talk about the “covenant path “ and what they call “ essential saving ordinances” only available from the LDS priesthood . Justification, as discussed in the letter to the Romans, would render LDS saving ordinances and the covenant path moot .
Paul taught people to have enough faith to be baptized (Acts 18:8.)
James 2: 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
If you have Faith in Christ you will follow his teachings
Elder Uchtdorf spoke on it at a general conference a few years ago and others have talked about it. I would disagree with your interpretation of Romans, Paul was writing to the church in Rome, people who were already baptized, he even explains to them how their previous baptism was symbolic of them being buried and rising with Christ.
It’s interesting that evangelicals talk about it so much since they are always emphasizing to Latter-day Saints that it’s a one time event.
Well said by Todd as the Covenant Path cannot save someone...and in fact is contrary to scripture.
We are saved by Jesus Christ only through the Doctrine of Christ.
2 Nephi 13:24-32 RLDS (2 Nephi 31 LDS)
For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water, And then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost, And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; Yea, ye have entered in by the gate, Ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son,
And ye have received the Holy Ghost which witnesses of the Father and the Son unto the fulfilling of the promise which He hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
And now my beloved brethren, after that ye have got into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done.
Behold, I say unto you, Nay; For ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ, with unshaken faith in Him, Relying wholly upon the merits of Him who is mighty to save.
Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, Having a perfect brightness of hope and a love of God and of all men.
Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ and endure to the end, "Behold, " thus saith the Father, "ye shall have eternal life."
And now behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way, And there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God.
And now behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, And the only and true doctrine of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God without end. Amen.
The Book of Mormon does not support pre-mortal existence and us agreeing to come to earth as shared by Greg Matsen.
Todd McLauchlin's description of the LDS church does not exist. Maybe in his mind and in his home but NOT in sacrament meeting, General Conference, or in the Temple. He is pandering to this panel and is being very disingenuous.
Remember, we are preparing the world for the second coming, those who will be lifted up with us, to meet the Savior and be with us in the Millennium will include all the good and honorable people of the earth. Likely their numbers will vastly outnumber the actual Saints. This type of outreach is part of the gathering where honorable Christians will gather with us to build the New Jerusalem, and shelter with us while the whole world is at war. This is how we become close with them now so they will be comfortable coming with us to Jackson County.