10 Things Writers do that give me the Ick

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  • Опубликовано: 27 дек 2024

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  • @Eidolon1andOnly
    @Eidolon1andOnly Год назад +1201

    I'm going to combine all these traits and become Jenna's arch nemesis.

    • @JayRedding12_12
      @JayRedding12_12 Год назад +27

      Lmao

    • @emilyhouse2498
      @emilyhouse2498 Год назад +78

      Haven’t even watched the video yet, but I like your energy good sir/madam/consul

    • @CandyThePuppy
      @CandyThePuppy Год назад +25

      Perfect plan.

    • @CandyThePuppy
      @CandyThePuppy Год назад +62

      I'll combine all of the traits but just ONE, so I'll be the villain she has to fight on her way to you: the final boss.

    • @basharic3162
      @basharic3162 Год назад

      You both already failed. Your prose hasn't been flowery enough, and I don't think you've fully considered where that path will lead you.
      For example if you make Jenna your enemy then you have to floridly insert her into your story and then commission art of her butthole.
      No one wants that, or at least if they do no one else here wants to know about it.

  • @georgespiggott5615
    @georgespiggott5615 Год назад +513

    Agree with everything but the "sometimes my characters get away from me" thing. That's just because sometimes the character evolves beyond the original plot/character beat you had in mind, and you can't really make it work anymore. Most of the greats have characters do things they didn't plan for, even Tolkien! He famously said that Faramir just wandered out of the woods and into the story, even though he had no idea where he came from.

    • @greenapple1470
      @greenapple1470 Год назад +62

      And like GRRM famously said: "I'm a gartner, not an architect". Some writers just have characters that grow out of their own hands

    • @georgespiggott5615
      @georgespiggott5615 Год назад +53

      @Green Apple so did the guy who wrote peanuts! All his characters grew beyond what they were originally, but the most iconic was Snoopy, who was initially just a cute puppy until he rose up on 2 legs for a joke and Schultz realized he couldn't make him go back on 4.

    • @justacat869
      @justacat869 Год назад +68

      This. I don't think anyone who says that genuinely believes that their characters are real, sentient beings (or at least most people don't) but what they actually mean is that the character did something that was not supposed to happen in the outline but it works because it fits their personality. And I personally like it when the characters take the story into a new direction than what I initially planned. I don't think that's a bad thing as long as it improves the story. Sticking too much to the outline might result in characters doing something that goes against their values and motivations just because the writer wanted X to happen.

    • @justacat869
      @justacat869 Год назад +18

      @@Ika0713 We literally said the same thing but with different words. As I said in my comment nobody believes their characters are real, it's just the writer pursuing a new idea that was not included in the outline because they realised this idea works better for the characters they created.

    • @tropical_7736
      @tropical_7736 Год назад +14

      I feel similar. Often my characters evolve naturally but also when I try new things with them, often time kinda spontaneously as I write. I don’t exactly see them as having a actual “mind of their own” and more so my story coming alive a bit and morphing into something new, often something I like better. This might be a pantser thing though and not a planner thing. It’s fun to see the journey change and differences emerge as you write and watching how your characters grow and change as the plot affects them in ways you might not have originally planed

  • @sbkMulletMan
    @sbkMulletMan Год назад +540

    I've had my old school bullies run into me as an adult, shake my hand and profusely apologize for their crappy behavior toward me as a kid. In fact, I'm sugar-coating it, as their own words describing their past selves were much harsher.
    So I'd write my old school bullies into a book to redeem them as a positive message that people do improve with age. Besides, turning my creativity into personal revenge smut just feels so petty. And speaking of "smut", GREAT ending to the video, Jenna!

    • @Gaia_Gaistar
      @Gaia_Gaistar Год назад +78

      This guy used to fuck with me a lot in high school, not the worst but really annoying, then he dropped out. Ran into him a lot a few years later and the dude was tripping over himself to apologize, I was pleasantly surprised he turned out alright.

    • @ttchme9816
      @ttchme9816 Год назад +65

      @@Gaia_Gaistar I was an asshole in my middle school to basically anyone that I don't deem 'equal' to me. So yeah, I used to have confidence and acknowledgement issues.
      Then when I got to highschool the Corona Quarantine hits. After that shit ended, I'm now in my final year as an 18 year old and once again met my former classmates. Literally 9 out of 10 of them told me "damn you chilling now?" and I bought all of them drinks as apology. It was kind of funny actually.

    • @MelanieNLee
      @MelanieNLee Год назад +21

      @@ttchme9816 Hmm...that might make a good short story!

    • @rodscarbrough2337
      @rodscarbrough2337 Год назад +6

      question.. is it the same if you see a character on screen or in a tv show and think, mmm I want to write this (character) into a pit of rabid dogs and watch the fun.?

    • @Gaia_Gaistar
      @Gaia_Gaistar Год назад +8

      @@ttchme9816 I'm a sucker for redemption arcs, good on you.

  • @VNightmoon
    @VNightmoon Год назад +189

    Re: #3
    Yes, there are some authors who take it way too seriously, but in my experience, a lot of people (myself included) use it as a fun metaphor for how the story changed, or that moment where you feel a character gained life.
    I, personally, use it as a fun punchline. Example:
    "This story was originally supposed to be shorter, but then I started fleshing out Vanna. She strong-armed her way into birthing three subplots just like she strong-armed her way into Mike's friendship."
    Anyone who reads said story will have a chuckle at how Vanna does have a tendency to involve herself with things going on in the plot, how she did actually more or less strong-arm her way into becoming Mike's friend, and how her past (subplot 1) is connected to one of her unknown relatives (subplot 2) and how the mystery of her missing sister (subplot 3) undertones the main plot's theme of people the characters love going missing and only being found decades later.
    It's meant to be taken as light-hearted fun, not seriously.

    • @martletkay
      @martletkay Год назад +24

      Yeah, I think a lot of the time people are just personifying their inspiration or story changes.

    • @VNightmoon
      @VNightmoon Год назад +22

      @@martletkay And aren't good metaphors and personification trademarks of a good writer?

    • @howdyhowdyhelga
      @howdyhowdyhelga Год назад +21

      it also comes across to me like another way of saying 'yeah, my outline was written this way, but at some point, i realized this event actually fit better/felt more realistic/was more entertaining.' or 'this was my original intention for this character, but as i started to work them into the story, i felt they worked better in this role/with this person.' it's less divine inspiration and more about how your understanding of how the puzzles in the writing process can fit together differently. but it is fun to say 'actually this was the character's decision.'

    • @bulgna
      @bulgna Год назад +4

      @@VNightmoon the keyword here being good.
      Lol sorry I had an intrusive thought and had to say it

  • @vantablack7939
    @vantablack7939 Год назад +448

    As an artist, I just want to say a big thank you for bringing up AI art. It's important to spread awareness about it, and I really appreciate you doing so :)

    • @katarinamor
      @katarinamor Год назад +34

      As a viewer, I'm so greatful for it, too! AI art is soulless boring copypasta! I want to see images by real artists, even young artists of humble skill level, their work has the warmth and meaning of human touch!

    • @marumind2583
      @marumind2583 Год назад +17

      I'm an artist too and I totally relate with this comment

    • @brightboi4291
      @brightboi4291 Год назад +20

      I know, I HATE AI ART SO MUCH

    • @daniclearwater9726
      @daniclearwater9726 Год назад +8

      Thank you :)

    • @matthewkjames4498
      @matthewkjames4498 Год назад +6

      @@katarinamor I actually had wonderful luck with AI art, but I also add a deepfake on top of it

  • @iclynnx
    @iclynnx Год назад +89

    That first one reminds me of Chloe from Miraculous, a series. The director, Thomas Astruc, refuses to let Chloe have character development, because she's based on or reminds him of his bully. When Chloe already has motivations set up and everything. She's literally a victim of neglect by her mother and spoiled by her father. She's just 14-15 years old.

    • @HufflePuk
      @HufflePuk Год назад +22

      Yes!! I was so mad when they assassinated her character growth. I love Chloe personally.

    • @brishiki
      @brishiki Год назад +12

      yesss exactly. i was so happy with her development when it was happening and then she got completely butchered for absolutely no reason, it made me so mad. i think with some things thomas is kind of ridiculous and i hope he gets over that soon and gives chloe the redemption she deserves.

  • @ludovico6890
    @ludovico6890 Год назад +211

    I actually did use one of my ex colleagues, whom I hated, as a model for a character. But not a villain per se and not for revenge reason. My MC in the story was a rookie cop and I needed a higher ranking officer who was a self-serving, backstabbing bastard whose decisions would put the MC in trouble. And it worked beautifully. And I don't want this antagonist to die, as he's going to be useful in more stories.

    • @hughcaldwell1034
      @hughcaldwell1034 Год назад +25

      Yeah, I definitely agree that the revenge element is petty and counter-productive, but sometimes people do horrible things and you want to write about it, and it's kind of inevitable that the person/people who you saw doing them will heavily influence your characters.

    • @basharic3162
      @basharic3162 Год назад +12

      Yeah, but that's different than what Jenna is talking about.
      Basing a character on a real life example is very different than writing a character whose only purpose is to act out revenge fantasies.

    • @ludovico6890
      @ludovico6890 Год назад +8

      @@basharic3162 I agree, but I did based a sob character on a sob in real life who was a kind of a bully with me and others. I would not admit it in an interview though, but I think if he ever was to read the short story I've written, he'd recognise himself pretty easily.

    • @vuivraalbastra
      @vuivraalbastra 7 месяцев назад +3

      ​@@basharic3162To be honest, as long as that revenge fantasy works beautifully within the story, I still don't see a big problem with it. Jenna and other people can find it icky, but honestly bullying can fuck up someone for years and it shouldn't be undermined just how hard it can be to overcome that experience. If someone needs to write a revenge fantasy to process that, okay, whatever works for them. It's not like they are hurting anyone and I'd rather judge the bullies themselves.

  • @jimpickens5936
    @jimpickens5936 Год назад +86

    I get number 3 tho. I usually don’t make plans and just write for my own enjoyment, so I never have a story planned out and just write what comes to mind spontaneously, so sometimes when I write a dialogue I end up with a response where I’m like: oh. I didn’t mean for things to go that way, but why not? Let’s see where this leads. So it’s kinda like “oh yeah, this one person that I meant to never use again is part of the main cast now I guess”

    • @ulla7378
      @ulla7378 Год назад +23

      As a more of a plantser, I find this to be the most rewarding part of writing: to see where it goes.
      Another thing is, that more often than not, the storylines I can get out from following the character are fresher. And fit better the themes and overall vibe of the story. Point in case. I had a side plot in my mind for relatively important side character. I got him to the scene that should have launched it. He was supposed to beat up certain people and when I got all them bristling and the likes, I realized that this 30-something man would have zero interest beating up few young lads who had gone through the same hell he had. No matter how much anger issues he has. So he took them to beers instead.
      It's not that the characters are real. But they have traits and connections to other characters. Situations like this, for me, tend to be sign that I as the writer failed to see the big picture well enough. I could just write what I planned but that would be actively writing worse story than what I could write.
      And perhaps someone is now thinking that "way to go, messing your sideplot". I didn't. I changed it but despite the changes, it still serves the exact same goal towards my main plot than the one I originally thought about. It's just that the character is now doing it through kindness, not violence.

    • @martletkay
      @martletkay Год назад +2

      The Dear Leader has spoken!

    • @martletkay
      @martletkay Год назад +4

      @@ulla7378 I think a lot of the time people are just personifying their inspiration.

    • @ttchme9816
      @ttchme9816 Год назад +3

      @@ulla7378 Pantsing subplots are actually good if well done, but don't pants your main plot.
      Like no amount of natural encounter or going with the flow can force an MC from a kind hearted but naive person, into becoming a cold hearted killer, and then back to a kind hearted but wiser person, all in only 2 volumes of storytelling while facing 4 or 6 fleshed out villains.
      Pantsing is great for subplots, but if you do it without any idea of what can happen, it can actually go out and prevent a main plot from happening. Then you'd have to 'steer' your story back on to the correct course and it'd make your story seem much more messy and forced.

    • @ulla7378
      @ulla7378 Год назад +6

      @@ttchme9816 Usually, when stories plop in my head, I have idea of the character arcs and their needs and major turning points of the story that intersect with the arc. So while I start without outline, I still have the milestones thought out.
      Subplots I tend to think from the "what I need this to provide for the main plot". In the example I mentioned, the need for main plot was certain connections to group of people. Even if I change how the character deals with his issues to match better his nature, I did not change what the subplot provides to the main plot.

  • @gemstonejasper17
    @gemstonejasper17 Год назад +95

    When I was 14, I wrote my first book. I put all this effort to make physical copies of it. We only handed them out to family and friends, plus I'm honestly completely embarrassed by it now. But as a 14 year old, this was my dream. Anyway, I remember my older step sister teaching me how to write my signature so I could "autograph" my family's copies. While she was helping me, she also said that I needed to start talking like an author. That meant using perfect grammar and getting rid of my regional dialect. So for the next few weeks she teased me anytime she heard me use less than perfect grammar. I got really frustrated at the time. But now I look back and have a nice memory with my sister who I dont get to see often anymore. I never ended up changing my dialect regardless lol

    • @jaustill237
      @jaustill237 6 месяцев назад +3

      Regional dialects make better authors. See Stephen King - made a whole career out of Maine.

  • @emeraldfury2152
    @emeraldfury2152 Год назад +15

    Timestamps:
    Let it go: 2:56
    Childhood Trauma: 4:08
    Sure Jan: 4:55
    Thievery: 5:53
    Purple pros and conversations: 7:08
    Shouting into the void: 8:05
    Creepy Mccrepperton: 8:48
    Gatekeeping: 9:55
    Bullying: 11:07

  • @angelacanedit
    @angelacanedit Год назад +123

    i agree with everything except #3. when i say my characters wanted or didn't want to do a certain thing, i merely mean that the story did not feel right as originally outlined and that things seemed to fall into place when i just let my intuition win instead of sticking to a plan. this sounds like something that would happen to pantsers more than plotters, so maybe that's why you can't relate

    • @lapersianaperta
      @lapersianaperta Год назад +28

      It's not about the method, she's specifically talking about how they phrase it. "the character changed the plan" sounds immature and insane. "I changed the plans" it's the truth and it's definetely more professional

    • @thatjillgirl
      @thatjillgirl Год назад +22

      Yeah, but like, just say that. Just say the story didn't feel right anymore and it became clear that it would work better another way. Don't phrase it like your characters are sentient beings who just misbehaved and wouldn't take directions.

    • @andreescalona8902
      @andreescalona8902 Год назад +9

      It's you. It's your intuition at work. One of my characters was named Sophia and, for a while, it worked. But after writing, and writing, and as light became more of a prevalent symbol in the work, it suddenly made for sense for her to be called Lucia. She didn't fight for it, I didn't plan it, it just happened: her name didn't fit anymore. But, deep down, I knew it was only my subconscious doing the heavy lifting

    • @martletkay
      @martletkay Год назад +24

      @@lapersianaperta It only sounds 'insane' if you choose to take it that way. It usually feels pretty harmless to me, unless people are too over the top, or are showing signs of actual mental disorder, or claiming to be split personality or something. People can be kind of weird about it, but as I wrote in my own post (essay, lol) in moderation it's not really an issue. I don't think very many people who speak like that ACTUALLY believe it. It's just a way they're phrasing it because they're invested and they're just projecting the character outside themselves. Now, sometimes I think they're doing this to get off the hook of critique, laying critique of the character or other blame away from themselves, but that's a whole other theory of mine.

    • @martletkay
      @martletkay Год назад +9

      @@thatjillgirl I don't like it when people get too quirky about it, but it's just way of speaking that shows they strongly identify with this entity they've created, so much so that they've sort of partitioned them off in their mind. It's not that weird. I feel like it's often an attention seeking thing, or done by people who want to be friends with their characters, to be honest.

  • @TheSnaqShaq
    @TheSnaqShaq Год назад +38

    As an aspiring author with adhd, I almost never follow an outline I've made because I get a hundred different ideas as I write. Then I never finish it because then the plot is nonexistent and I run out of ideas on how to continue

    • @superfluityme
      @superfluityme Год назад +6

      I have adhd, I have too many ideas for one book like you, so I write more than one book. Whilst ensuring most effort goes into one book. With all the ideas I have, I spread them out in many books, so my brain has more than one place to put them. I currently have three short stories and about fifteen other books which receive varying amounts of attention. This does take longer to complete a book, but it gets a book completed for how by brain operates.

    • @TheSnaqShaq
      @TheSnaqShaq Год назад +2

      @@superfluityme yeah, I do that a lot and it's resulted in me having a mini library on my computer full of unfinished and usually poorly written books and a super long list of book ideas I will likely never write

    • @thisperson8441
      @thisperson8441 Год назад +1

      @@TheSnaqShaq same lol

    • @mirih5368
      @mirih5368 Год назад +3

      Allow me to introduce you to the concept of the Plot Bunny Farm:
      I have 2 ideas
      I write a story using one of them
      I now have 7 ideas, and the burning desire to write 7 different AU versions of my story.
      And the bunnies breed and breed and grow and grow until your brain is full of story ideas and literally nothing else.

    • @TheSnaqShaq
      @TheSnaqShaq Год назад

      @@mirih5368 frfr it sucks but at least I always have something to write about

  • @DarthCompton
    @DarthCompton Год назад +27

    As an artist and writer, I'm so glad you brought up #4.

  • @toyloliSpare
    @toyloliSpare Год назад +41

    I have a counterpoint to #3... When the character has an opinion because of empathy! A lot of writers put good chunks of themselves and their experiences into their work, and some times what you initially start out with in your dot notes, or story outline just hits a hard wall. You're empathizing with you character and something just doesnt seam right! Like "This isn't how I would handle this situation, it sounds forced! Stop speeking for me ma! Let me say what I want!"
    Yes, I'm Projecting, but to a point projecting is a common way of fleshing out a character!

    • @martletkay
      @martletkay Год назад +10

      Empathy is a good take on it. I think it's also just people personifying various parts of the writing process. Some people can be pretty obnoxious about it, but I think that's less about empathy for the character and more about getting attention as an author. I'd say it does make me cringe sometimes, but not when it's being said in a creative, fun, or thoughtful way because then it just shows the author thinks about their characters a lot, and really gets to know them, and that, I think, is a good thing.

  • @Hrafnskald
    @Hrafnskald Год назад +32

    9 is spot on. What is the first thing a reader does when they finish reading all the books by an author they love? Ask for more authors who write similar stories. Writing is not a zero sum game, and having a great author who is popular in your sub-genre means more potential readers for you once their readers get hungry and start looking for more stories to devour.

  • @Laurtew
    @Laurtew Год назад +33

    On #9, I have a literary themed bakery and we were at an event where there was another bakery with our type of theme. At first, I was upset but then I realised that if they are taking business away from me, they have a better product and I need to up my game. They sell a few things we don't and I sent people over to them. I never talked them down because that says more about me than them. If someone writes a better book than me, I need to learn my craft and up my game. In the end, I think we all have our strengths and weaknesses and we can learn from each other.

    • @AntediluvianRomance
      @AntediluvianRomance Год назад +2

      Hell, you could have your own specialties. I often see regular bakeries right across the street of each other, and they seem to be doing fine together.

  • @JulianGreystoke
    @JulianGreystoke Год назад +21

    The "saying your characters just do stuff" comes from her fundamental misunderstanding of another method. It makes sense. She doesn't use that method and has found it not to work for her at all. I am getting sick of her harping on it, but alas, it is her favorite talking point lol
    Looking to your characters to lead the story is only bad if it's not working for you. If it's not, try a different method

  • @lizanna6390
    @lizanna6390 Год назад +23

    If my characters 'don't want' to do what I planned, i know I've made them in a way that doesn't fit the plot

  • @Patri_P_P
    @Patri_P_P Год назад +16

    As an illustrator who sometimes writes out of hobby and enjoys your videos a lot, I want to say a huge thank you for spreading awareness about the AI issue that we're suffering, I agree, creators of all forms should stick together. Thank you! Oh, and I just preordered your new book and got the Saviour's Champion, can't wait to read them!

  • @ultravioletwaterfall
    @ultravioletwaterfall Год назад +40

    With number 3, I consider it a figure of speech. One to denote that sometimes during the writing process, intuition kicks in and generates ideas or dialogue in the writer's mind; said thoughts can end up taking the story in a very different direction than originally planned. So, in a way, the story "writes" itself. If I hear someone saying that,I assume it to mean that the author wrote the story using mostly intuition or improvisation. As opposed to following a strict plot outline.
    For #10: Girl, avoid Twitter fandoms. That's all I will say. You've been warned. Don't send me the psychiatrist's bill 😂.

    • @martletkay
      @martletkay Год назад +7

      I agree with it being predominantly a way of speaking, and further more, take it as one of two things about the author:
      1. They personify their inspiration and choices, and are very invested in their characters, enough so that they kind of detach them from themselves. It's all in good fun and it means they think a lot about their characters and probably value character highly in the triumvirate of Plot Setting Character (after my own heart)
      or
      2. They think this makes them sound like a really 'authentic' and 'witty/quirky' writer, and they think it makes them sound like they're sooooooooo inspired and better than other writers. It's attention seeking and also used to redirect any critique they might get for their choices.
      I think it is only very rarely taken seriously (delusionally) so Jenna is pretty unfair to say that as the main reason she doesn't like it. Kinda stigmatizes mental disorder.

    • @yuuri9064
      @yuuri9064 Год назад +8

      I'm thinking Jenna's more saying that it bothers her when writers don't take responsibility for the work they create.
      I do agree though. When we talk about a character refusing to follow the outline, I think we usually mean that the character we developed doesn't fit perfectly into the plot we created for them. As we come to understand them better, we realize that certain things may need to change for natural story progression.

    • @Xandycane
      @Xandycane Год назад

      It can be but there are authors who literally blame their characters with no humor. I can say "I blame Lysa, lol" as a pantser but actually blaming her? That's weird.

  • @hopperwolf2
    @hopperwolf2 Год назад +18

    Regarding #3:
    For me, it's not that "they have a mind of their own," so much as while I write them, they get more depth (as they deserve). And as such, what I originally planned my go against their new form. They've grown. And if it doesn't make sense for them to do something, they wouldn't. Thus, the outlined plan must change.
    And yes, AI art IS, as currently formed, a form of theft.

  • @trinaq
    @trinaq Год назад +152

    Thanks for your tips, Jenna. I really detest it when authors write characters transparently based on real people who've wronged them in their book so they can be brutally killed off, or wronged in another way. There's a reason why you're advised against basing characters on real people, as they or someone else could instantly realise it.

    • @esbeng.s.a9761
      @esbeng.s.a9761 Год назад +20

      I do agree when it is something you is going to relised, but if it just not going anywhere, then do what you want, as it can help you espress emotions you wouldn't or couldn't safely show in public

    • @RodrickMarsMoon
      @RodrickMarsMoon Год назад

      Can you give a example of this 🤔?
      Genuinely asking.

    • @lizanna6390
      @lizanna6390 Год назад +5

      @@esbeng.s.a9761 catharsis. I have done this in fanfiction just to exorcise old feelings.

    • @taylor_green_9
      @taylor_green_9 Год назад +15

      It's great to use real people's personality traits to make your characters more realistic, but you should leave out any potentially identifying information

    • @cognitocarl
      @cognitocarl Год назад +3

      Yeah it is pretty weird I’ve seen a bit of it.

  • @dinosaysrawr
    @dinosaysrawr Год назад +19

    Re: #1, I *do* think our real-life enemies and bullies can serve as wonderful inspiration for our fictional antagonists and imbue them with that extra air of realism and nastiness.
    Re: #2, I didn't realize this was a thing, and I wish I still didn't.
    Re: #3, I usually just interpret this as a twee and whimsical way of saying, "When I tried this idea out on paper (literally), it just didn't work." Sometimes, the idea we had in our heads just doesn't unfold as expected once we dive into the writing process, and that's valid!
    Re: #7, it boggles my brain that certain authors obviously don't realize that stalking and harassing your readers, reviewers, and rivals is a Bad Look that will inevitably taint people's impressions of your work--but, then, some of these authors clearly think that proofreading is beneath them, too, so...

  • @bloop6111
    @bloop6111 Год назад +3

    I’m glad you mentioned the gate keeping. I’ve started to regret my time on writing related subreddits because every day it’s just multiple posts about “what tropes do you hate?” The way it can really start to crush the desire to write for anyone other than yourself.

  • @anwynb03o3o5
    @anwynb03o3o5 Год назад +42

    I based a character off of one of my bullies so I could redeem her; she was mean for understandable reasons and changed her ways. Worked as a kind of therapy.

    • @annanas9122
      @annanas9122 Год назад +5

      If I'm being honest, this sounds more akin self-gaslight, but glad if it worked therapeutic for you because I'm of mentality that _no matter the reason,_ bullying is NEVER to be justified, even in the slightest.
      Redeemed? Possibly. But it can never and should never be made "understandable" in my opinion.

    • @anwynb03o3o5
      @anwynb03o3o5 Год назад +5

      @@annanas9122 Oh yeah no, the stuff she did was inexcusable, but she figured that out for herself and apologized and worked to make herself better (the character, I mean).

  • @KuramasSilverstar16
    @KuramasSilverstar16 Год назад +17

    Hey, I’ve heard of authors attempting full on lawsuits directed at other authors whose books happen to have similar themes and genre touchstones, even though much of the actual story itself is far different. It makes me SMH, because if every author did that to every other author, we’d have a much smaller library of books than we do.

  • @cjermevpg6372
    @cjermevpg6372 Год назад +10

    I will say, in regards to number 3, I might sometimes phrase it like "my characters won't do that", but that's just a fancy way of saying, "It doesn't work when I make this character do this thing, because it feels forced and contrived."

  • @yapdog
    @yapdog Год назад +9

    Well, on bullying, you never know how profound of an effect that it can have on a person. I randomly encountered this old classmate that I hadn't seen in over a decade. I *thought* he was a friend, so I reach out for a fist bump. He just sneered at me, turned away, and bumped our mutual friend. I was perplexed. Turns out, he was pissed at me all these years for something I didn't even do! (I know who the _real_ culprit was, but didn't tell him)
    It would've been easy for me to deride him, but what he was picked on about really mattered to him. Something personal that he couldn't change. So, it would be perfectly understandable if he chose to deal with it through writing.

  • @meganthompson6676
    @meganthompson6676 Год назад +17

    Number 3: I've been writing for less than 4 years and I've been in places of my works where it felt like the scenes were writing themselves; does that count?

    • @HobDobson
      @HobDobson Год назад +7

      I'd guess "No". When you've developed your characters to the point that you practically know what they'd say and do in most situations, maybe writing scenes that fit them well should feel like that.

    • @angelacanedit
      @angelacanedit Год назад +4

      sounds like you're a pantser and not a planner (like me) and yes, we seem to have an easier time writing without planning ahead (even scenes with characters we don't know well yet)

    • @lapersianaperta
      @lapersianaperta Год назад +2

      no, she's not talking about the method, she's talking about writers explaining their process as the characters are in charge taking decisions, istead of giving credit to their own brain

  • @erethesun
    @erethesun Год назад +8

    Agree with all but #3. I am somewhere between a pantser and a plotter, so some things, I know going in; other things, I discover as I go. For me, this is clearly seen with how my characters develop -- I come up with a basic character profile to start with, but as I write them, they "reveal" themselves, and things often shift. Sometimes it's what I expect. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes their unfolding character makes the story go in ways I didn't expect or plan. When this happens, I nearly always "listen to the character" and it turns out far better than whatever I had in mind originally. This has happened...oh gosh...hundreds of times. At least.
    It is a subconscious thing, so subconscious it can feel (but I ultimately know isn't) like the characters are truly calling the shots. It's fun and funny to claim that I have no control over them, and sometimes I even have "conversations" with them where I work out plot points and such with their "input." Most authors understand what I mean, and I've sold books because someone fell in love with my characters from the "conversation" I had with them haha.
    I am fully aware that my characters are characters, that I created them, that I am the author and have full control. However, the way I see it, for me at least and the way my mind works, the characters DO take on a life of their own in a way, because once I give them a personality and certain traits, some actions are now out of character for them. While I could technically make my character do anything, I also can't -- if I want to keep their character consistent (which I do). One of my MCs started off as a backstory character who then "decided" he wanted to be a character, then a main character, then he wanted the girl, and now he's the protagonist. I jokingly say he took over the story, but ultimately, it's that I had it wrong at first -- he is the *perfect* protagonist and the obvious one; it just took me a while to unravel my own plans to see this other way (which is INFINITELY better than was I was going to do). I have another character who "kept secrets" from me for over a year; I'd figured out his entire backstory except for a 5-year period where he was "silent" (AKA, I hadn't figured it out yet). He eventually revealed it -- again, I eventually figured it out and made sense of things. The clues were there in things I'd written, but my brain kind of hadn't caught up yet.
    Again, this is my subconscious. But on a certain level, it feels like they're being pushy and taking over the story. Ultimately, it's not, because again, they're not real in terms of tangible. But they are real enough, 3-dimensional enough, that they do often feel like they have a mind of their own. :)

  • @arklestudios
    @arklestudios Год назад +47

    I actually had an author try to pick a fight with me over a review once. His name was W. Wright and the book was called Brimstone's Knight. It had an awesome premise, but was very bad. For starters, the book went through villains like tic tacs. Not one "Big Bad" lasts more than like 4 chapters. This felt like a 7 novel series crammed into one, then somehow still managed to end on a cliffhanger that I just didn't give two s--ts about. The guy trying to argue with me on Goodreads over it did nothing to improve my opinion.

    • @GaleForceKaif
      @GaleForceKaif Год назад +8

      A similar thing happened to a friend of mine. She wrote a review that was overall critical, but also praised things the book did right. My friend even ended it by saying that since it was this author's first book, and the author did show promise, she was open to reading their future books.
      Author did not appreciate that. They went on a rampage on social, complaining about my friend, her review, and exaggerating how "malicious" it was. And not only on their own accounts, but also in writing groups and other communities my friend was involved in to trash her and turn those communities against her. Thankfully I was in a number of those groups as well, so I simply linked the review and encouraged everyone to read it themselves. Once they did, pretty much all of them realized this author had a screw loose and didn't take them seriously after that. There were even a few reviewers in those groups who were intending on reviewing the book, but decided not to because of their awful behaviour. So glad that bit her in the ass ! XD

  • @robinronin
    @robinronin Год назад +17

    Point #1-#3 are just a bit silly.
    #1 I’ve spoken to many people with (C)PTSD who found it therapeutic to write about their bullies and kill them off. If it helps you heal, please do NOT take this advice! It’s disgusting when people tell you to just ‘let it go’ when it was so traumatic. Just because they don’t remember you, doesn’t mean that the severe trauma they gave you is invalid.
    #2 I’m pretty sure people just loved the name because they had positive associations with it. Nothing wrong with that, no reason to shame them.
    #3 This is a really, really bad point. You should want your characters to be so real that you feel as if they’re leading you sometimes. If your characters ‘don’t follow the outline’ that means you SHOULD NOT follow the outline, because there is a flaw in the outline that does not fit the story/character. If you follow the outline regardless, events come off as awkward and robotic because you just really needed them to be in there for the story you had planned out, not because it actually fits.
    #10 Wow, erotica and romance authors commissioning sexy art of their characters? It’s almost as if it’s their job and they want to promote their work! How odd!
    All in all, to writers out there: don’t take this as advice, just very much as Jenna’s personal taste. I say this because I used to take everything Jenna said to heart a few years ago, and it made me feel as if I was doing everything wrong. Your process is your process, don’t let anything Jenna says make you feel invalidated! It’s purely her personal opinion and most of it should be seen as a joke/personal preference, not actual advice (yes, even the serious videos, they are purely personal taste, not advice).

    • @kelest4215
      @kelest4215 7 месяцев назад +2

      exactly, that's the thing about getting bullied - the bullies never remember you. They've fucked you up for life for their own amusement and they've moved on. The ax forgets but the tree remembers.

  • @Schmunzelfee
    @Schmunzelfee Год назад +6

    Ok, hear me out before you judge. I totally do number three and here is why. The way I flesh out my characters is, I write tons of scenes that they are part of. How they think and how they behave etc. this way the character gets more and more vivid in my head. I get to know them more and I get the impression that they are literally alive for me. Sometimes I just start with a piece of dialogue the character would say, let them "off leash" and explore the scene "on their own" in my head. I totally abandon the plan for the scene and see where they end up.
    Of course, they are not really alive and my imagination does all of it, but it feels so vivid and real in my head. By thinking that they are alive, they become more alive in my head and that helps me to create more realistic and interesting scenes. And then we say: "Oh that character totally did what they wanted, once I let them do what they like to do and not force them." I often get more interesting and exciting scenes this way and it helps me. Of course, it's about letting my brain go and letting my imagination "off leash" but it helps me to think that they are truly alive somewhere. I had writer's block a few years ago, caused by the fact that I did not know the arc of that specific character back then. I had changed the name of the character back and forth, but even then nothing came... I felt so unmotivated.
    So I changed her name back and I had the impression that from that time on, fleshing out that character was totally easy and I finally found a voice for her. Until today I swear that she really became alive that day. By thinking and accepting that she was hiding her identity from me on purpose, I got the idea for an entire character ark for her. Because from then on I never had problems with her again. Just by thinking that she was reserved and had her own way of doing things and was very specific about who she could trust and who not, I crafted her entire arc in one evening.
    For me it felt like seeing the light after a long dark tunnel and I am very emotional about that day. Some writers just think that way. We pretend that our characters are real even though we know deep down that the characters are of course not real. XD But truly, for us it helps us writing them and I am sure you have your own approach to solve problems like that. And I would never ever say that you are crazy, whatever helps you writing your stories. For us this method is like a tool that gives us more ideas and it helps us bond with our characters to flesh them out better so the reader cares about them more.

  • @r.michaelburns112
    @r.michaelburns112 Год назад +9

    It's not revenge to write a bully into your work, it's catharsis. It's a way of coping with trauma -- as is much of writing, really. And unless you named them for the actual person (a bad idea, obviously) you're not immortalizing them. As to characters taking on a life of their own, that's just shorthand for saying you came to a better understanding of what makes that character work in the story. I think...or hope...most writers understand that.

    • @haybale287
      @haybale287 9 месяцев назад +2

      Exactly. Can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this comment. When I wrote my first book, I write in a character based on my attempted murderer, so that I could condemn their actions because no one ever believed me. It was very gratifying to be able to have the "support" of the characters while writing about it. I've never watched this creator before, but she instantly give me an 'ick'

  • @martletkay
    @martletkay Год назад +7

    On #3.... I feel like this is more a way that some people discuss characters and their own mental process, not actual delusion (for most people). I talk like this pretty regularly, and I feel like I am being led different directions by characters at times, because I know them so well that sometimes I am genuinely surprised by what pops out of 'their mouth'/my mind. Or I feel actual pushback when I try to force a character to do something they 'don't want to do'. I know it's actually me and my subconscious. I'm not delusional enough to think they're real, nor do I let flights of fancy derail my actual plot just because I felt like my character would do a thing and now they NEED to do it. And when characters go too far in a direction I'm no longer happy with, I just pull back and re-evaluate. But letting them 'take control' can lead to new insights and also clarity on why you don't care for certain aspects of them, or what you want to highlight more.
    Anyway, this kind of character anthropomorphization speak, when done in jest and moderation, is pretty harmless and it's not really fair to say it's always cringe. We're having fun playing around and talking about our favorite things with people we feel comfortable sharing them with. Maybe it comes out of a hobby of text RPGing, but for me it feels natural to sort of embody my characters a little more, either as if I am them, or as if they are interactional, and it can be pretty insightful at times to just have fun discussions with those who enjoy doing the same. It's like a little taste of roleplaying while also learning more about characters as tools and any number of other writing processes. But it does go too far with some people who clearly only publicly broadcast their process and characters like this to get attention, claim writing cred, and most especially to show off that they're such an inspired, genuine, and QUIRKY WRITER TM, and that their characters are SO REAL, and SO MUCH BETTER than anyone else's that they have literally gained sentience and they (and their author) now CANNOT BE QUESTIONED or critiqued anymore because they ARE SO REAL YOU GUYS and that's JUST WHAT THEY WOULD LOL so I wrote it and I COULDN'T STOP THEM that would be like a crime against authenticity and I COULDN'T MAKE THE PLOT NOT SUCK and the characters not INSUFFERABLE TWITS BECAUSE THAT'S JUST HOW IT IS OKAY YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO THEY SAID SO WHO AM I TO INTERVENE.

  • @aleabeckermann2100
    @aleabeckermann2100 Год назад +6

    Hi Jenna! About the AI point, theres actually an AI for writing too which was also created by stealing works from non consenting writers. Published books but also fanfiction sites like ao3

  • @redasruby4190
    @redasruby4190 Год назад +1

    My "characters have a mind of their own" thing is because I forget my own plot and then when I get to a bit I wanted to write i realise that nobody in my story would ever do what i originally thought before i fleshed them out 😭

  • @Hrafnskald
    @Hrafnskald Год назад +5

    4 and 8 are great points. 3 I agree, but I see differently: saying your character resisted doing something is often less "they literally exist outside of me" and more "this thing I want them to do is totally out of character and goes against their motivation, and I experience this disconnect as a character resisting my plot". Characters are not real, but our expectation that they behave in the story in line with their motivations and traits is real.

  • @CoffeeCatArts
    @CoffeeCatArts Год назад +47

    Thank you for touching on the AI art debate. I think you summarized an important part of the issue in a great way.
    Love you videos, always.

    • @TheMsLourdes
      @TheMsLourdes Год назад +2

      Except she didn't really. Her argument holds water if all the ai is doing is clip arting new art together from existing pieces.. but it doesn't, doesn't work like that at all. I'm an ML Engineer.. I know. So... the point she made is the layperson surface argument. The basis for the argument however is flawed as it doesn't work as Jenna suggests. While she is entitled to her opinion, opinions do not facts make.

    • @kodabuck225
      @kodabuck225 Год назад +2

      @@TheMsLourdes dude do you know how AI works? It literally is just clipets of art smooshed together in an algorithm, with prob some additional input. Like just because it's 500 images instead of the really chunky 5 doent make it any less just smooshed together pieces of art lol.

    • @thomasmann4536
      @thomasmann4536 Год назад +1

      @@TheMsLourdes Well ... no. Because her argument rests on the premise that art was used without the artists' consent. Which is true. And we can't simply say that "oh but artists reference each other's work too!", because an artist usually transforms the work in some way (and if they don't it's illegal), putting in own effort and skill. The AI does not transform its input, because the AI does not create anything on its own. The model merely adjusts its weights and biases based on the input data it is given. The point is, even thought technically not illegal, this is a highly dubious and questionable practice to take people's work without attribution or compensation, plug it into a machine (which would work just as well if you never used copyrighted content bc theres plenty of copyright free stuff out there) and then sell that machine. And I say that as someone who uses AI and would love to continue to do so. But this can't be done behind the backs of those who literally make this possible. It's called exploitation.

  • @SysterYster
    @SysterYster Год назад +3

    About the name thing. I get giving a child a name after a character/person you LIKE or look up to. But not after a real person you wanna do the naughties with. That's weird. But while we're on it... isn't it even MORE weird to name your kid after yourself??? And add a Junior on it. That's so incredibly weird I just kinda don't know what to say about that even. Like... you gave your kid YOUR OWN name... do you love yourself that much?

  • @bhsprinkle
    @bhsprinkle 10 месяцев назад

    These are always so entertaining. Such excellent points.
    Thanks Jenna.

  • @durandaldevil
    @durandaldevil Год назад +2

    I’m writing my real life villains into the story but most get a redemption arcs.

  • @PaulRWorthington
    @PaulRWorthington Год назад +10

    I completely agree with your point about AI generated art.
    I think all writers need to worry about AI generated stories.

  • @theotherworlddream1
    @theotherworlddream1 Год назад +6

    I think number two would also be a problem for the spouse. Not only do they get to forever remember that the person they love is fantasizing about someone else, but they'll see that in their children until the day they die. Seriously disturbing.

    • @kodabuck225
      @kodabuck225 Год назад +4

      Yeah definitely for the name bit, that can be hella disturbing.
      Tho with the "fantasizing about somebody else" when that somebody else is a fictional character, shouldn't even be a big deal to a partner let alone a problem, folks should be allowed fantasies even when in relationships.
      Like if the fantasy is problematic in some way, sure, that's totally understandable, but if it's just run of the mill stuff, nah let em have fun, it's just a fictional character after all, it ain't like they can cheat on ya with em, or anything like that lol.

  • @hayleyturnerwrites
    @hayleyturnerwrites Год назад +12

    #10 I am YELLING 🤣

  • @matthewscorner2990
    @matthewscorner2990 Год назад

    I love the unfiltered bluntness of how you explained your thoughts on the last point. Absolutely hilarious.

  • @waffles5238
    @waffles5238 Год назад +1

    4:56
    Characters seeming like they have a mind of their own is a very common experience, especially with Pantsers
    As we grow to understand our characters more, decisions that we had planned on them making no longer make sense
    It legitimately feels like our characters make their own decisions
    (But we know they don’t)

  • @thatrandomweeb
    @thatrandomweeb Год назад +4

    #3: sometimes I get an idea, but then scrap it cuz I just feel like "that's not something that character would do". Does that count?

    • @RodrickMarsMoon
      @RodrickMarsMoon Год назад +2

      Nope, I kinda do this too 🤔😅.
      I just keep the idea hidden until I find some story where that idea fits well.
      That's one of my mottos about writing: "never waste an idea, save it for another time", side by side with "'less is more' my ass, 'MORE is more'!!!" and "keep everything fresh all the time" 🤗😁.

    • @clementine127
      @clementine127 Год назад +3

      developing your characters to the point where you can tell how well a scene would work for them is actually good, and makes your story more consistent. what jenna’s talking about is trying to sound artsy and not giving yourself the credit for working so hard to make that character feel real.

  • @Mecharnie_Dobbs
    @Mecharnie_Dobbs Год назад +2

    5:26 "Deferring blame..." Or praise?

  • @Alexandretta
    @Alexandretta Год назад +4

    I find AI art useful for inspiration, like if I'm having trouble visualizing an 18th century secret society meeting in an underground temple. Basically, for personal use only, not business.

  • @Jeff_McIntyre
    @Jeff_McIntyre Год назад +8

    But Jenna, how will people truely understand how much I hate my childhood bullies if I don't vilify them in print? I have tons of self-referential stuff in my book, but its mostly inside jokes with my friends and anonymous dedications to those who are gone. For my friends its definitely if you know you know, but for everyone else it only means what's on the page.

  • @harryjamessmithmusic7762
    @harryjamessmithmusic7762 Год назад +1

    Great job!

  • @rzuue
    @rzuue Год назад +5

    Number 3:
    I gotta say, sometimes when I plan a character and then start writing, what I bring to the page is not necessarily exactly what I planned. Writing is very intuitive for me, sometimes I go astray or get swept away by ideas as I write. And sometimes I like those spontaneous outcomes better. And then that might have an impact on how other parts of the story go.
    Of course characters don’t have a mind of their own, but it sure sometimes feels like there’s less control over what you’re writing when it is as intuitive for you as it is for me. (That doesn’t mean anyone who writes intuitively is a worse or better writer, I don’t think there’s any relation to the quality of the work at all)

  • @irenebaker9904
    @irenebaker9904 Год назад +1

    Really appreciate your thoughts on the use of AI art. I love the idea of artists supporting each other and having each other's backs, whether they work with images or with words.

  • @aeryngoodspeed
    @aeryngoodspeed Год назад +1

    when i say "my character has a mind of their own" i mean "the story didn't make sense going just from what I'M writing, i had to get input from the person experiencing what I'm writing, so i kinda had to put myself in their shoes and see how they'd react rather than how I'd react". it's less that i think they're a real person and more that i want to make them feel like a real person.
    oh, and thank you for the tidbit about ai "art". it's nothing but plagiarism software XD

  • @anonymous36247
    @anonymous36247 Год назад +40

    I really thought going into this video that I was going to disagree with one or two of the things that you were saying and I was nervous that I might do some of them and as it turns out I agree with your list 100%. I'm especially happy that you mentioned AI art. I'm an unpublished writer but a lot of my friends are visual artists and I'm not sure all of them even see the threat that AI art poses to the market. Still, I agree with you and I think that any form of mechanization is dangerous to labor within the economic framework in which we're working currently and AI visual art is especially dubious due to the way that the program was originally trained, as you pointed out. Thank you.

    • @AlphishCreature
      @AlphishCreature Год назад +1

      Reminds me how at least one person had a gall to "write" and "illustrate" a book with ChatGPT generated writing and some AI generated imagery as illustrations (I take care to avoid calling what AI generates as "art"). Or how someone else won an art competition with AI generated image, taking the credit for themself.
      Now, if text-to-image models were trained on data from consenting authors, I wouldn't mind the tools at all; in fact, I could use them myself for personal uses like tabletop RPG character portraits or to make my characters concepts more concrete. But the way AIs are trained now, I steer clear from them, and even with ethically trained sets I can't justify people crediting themselves for AI generated imagery.

    • @anonymous36247
      @anonymous36247 Год назад +3

      @@AlphishCreature I've got little problem with personal use. If you are generating art for your Dungeons and Dragons character and you weren't going to hire an artist to drive anyway there isn't too much harm in using one of these apps since most people are just going to steal a picture of an elf from the internet anyway. When I see these images being used commercially or taking the place of commissioned work then I think there's another issue entirely. Truly my main opposition is to mechanization itself within a capitalist framework. I would not mind intellectual property going the way of the dodo if we lived in a society that took care of its people and work was done only to acquire luxuries. The elimination of private property and intellectual property could make way for great advances in quality of life as we mechanized most work including using a AI to generate stories and visual art or to inspire such creations. As long as we're living in a society that leaves poor people to die and requires labor in exchange for food or shelter, there's going to be people who do the labor of writing books and painting art and we should not be encouraging the replacement of those jobs in the market with these easily mass-produced images. The technology is advancing but our economic system is stagnated in some neofeudalistic clepto-orgy of billionaire incel nonsense. Until we eliminate billionaires, we have to war with the machines as well.

    • @AlphishCreature
      @AlphishCreature Год назад +1

      @@anonymous36247 I can sort of agree to taking a stance against the technology itself, when it's coupled with stance against the mandatory-labour mindset as well.
      It's that very mindset that turn the benefits of productivity-improving technology on its head - instead of "wow, it's awesome, now we need half the time to do our job", we are like "how terrible, now half of the jobs will be gone!" One thing I'd like to avoid is people fight solely the text-to-image technology, rather than the framework that makes the technology potentially livelihood-threatening in the first place.
      Just for the record, I wouldn't use AI-generated images in the finished product (unless them being AI-generated is itself an art statement); I'd either draw it myself or hire a human artist to do it properly. However, I do consider using AI images for internal "concept art" of sorts (provided ethically trained model). This could be seen as taking concept artists' job, but quickly generating a bunch of AI generated images gives me more readily available variations of a person, and then I can choose one with "just right" facial features, or body build, or something like that. Then, with a concrete reference, I could redraw and tweak it to communicate with final-product artists.
      Compare that to wasteful and emotionally draining back-and-forth between me and concept artist because I envisioned slightly different features and/or eventually compromising on the original character vision because I don't want to bother the artist with overly specific demands anymore. If an ethically trained AI lets me get closer to my artistic vision, then, as a selfish creator, I'll choose it over creating a job for a human concept artist who'd likely still not draw the character exactly how I want even after several revisions.

    • @TheMsLourdes
      @TheMsLourdes Год назад +1

      @@AlphishCreature Except what you think is happening under the hood with the training, isn't what's happening under the hood. AI models look at a wide swath of photographs, art, advertisement, anything visual and comes up with correlations that it breaks down into sublabels upon sublabels. You can take AI training model processed data and open it up, its not a PDF.. you aren't going to find a billion jpg's under the hood. You're going to find raw data and millions of sublabels where its learned the characteristicss of everything from a real sunset to the brush strokes of the great masters. But you will not find an image in the lot. BEcause AI art is not copypasta'ing its creations. Further the things it does produce need alot of work and post processing to be 'good'.... which involves the act of creating art, tools upon tools to get you to the end.
      If you ask for an image and it gives you one, you may have an argument that says its not yours... but then it is the AI's. However if you're post processing and you are building up a piece and AI is there helping you generate the layers of a piece, its no different than what artists do in photoshop.

    • @AlphishCreature
      @AlphishCreature Год назад

      @@TheMsLourdes Sure, the resulting model doesn't strictly store every single training image under the hood, and instead it's some aggregate of nodes, weights, labels, whatever; something that you can't extract the original content from.
      But consider this situation: someone steals a bunch of vegetables, discards inedible parts and makes a cream soup out of them. You cannot extract the original vegetables from the soup, but the fact remains the soup was made from stolen vegetables, and that you couldn't have reasonably made this exact soup without these vegetables.
      It's similar with a model trained on unlicensed/not ethically obtained art. With the resulting model, it might be virtually impossible to exactly recreate any of unlicensed artworks, but *without unlicensed artworks it would be virtually impossible to exactly recreate the model* as well. Sure, once you got the numbers, you can just copy-paste them around, but those numbers had to be chosen/found somehow.
      (that, and while you can't recreate a full image, occasional traces of watermarks may pop up here and there)
      I'm not opposed to text-to-image models in general; if anything, I'm impressed by the technical thought that went into it. I also agree that it takes some significant post-processing/transformative work to turn AI-generated image into something of your own.
      What I'm opposed to is people trying to claim AI output as their own art, and text-to-image models being trained on unlicensed artworks. If AI generator providers actually do the legwork and obtain permissions from each original image owner - I'm all for it!

  • @justjukka
    @justjukka Год назад +2

    #9 made me sad for those people. :(

  • @eldergeek6077
    @eldergeek6077 Год назад

    I hope your Livestream includes an unboxing because it gives me the warm fuzzies.

  • @xSugarHighDD
    @xSugarHighDD Год назад +50

    I feel like number 3 is how pantsers explain themselves. Since they didn't start by writing a complete, detailed outline of the novel, and their story is character-driven, to them it feels like 'the characters took over' and 'the story wrote itself'. I feel like number 10 is not that bad (for some authors, it might just be a marketing tactic), but I completely agree with you on all the other icks.

    • @bitchlasagna1
      @bitchlasagna1 Год назад +10

      I also think sometimes it's good to just sit with and explore characters and allow them to help you form your outline, so sometimes number 3 might be used still in the sense of the outlining stage

  • @3dstuff654
    @3dstuff654 Год назад +2

    Love your videos sm they’re so helpful

  • @viktoravarkonyi4570
    @viktoravarkonyi4570 Год назад +2

    Once i wrote a horror story about middle school bullies in my class. It wasnt for revenge its not like anyone will ever read it, but there is just so much drama and weird shit that i thought with some murder this could be totally interesting. I mean the shit they did to each other has so much potential for some battle royal story where only 1 survives because they almost murdered each other on multiple occasions. And there was so much rumors and mysteries and backstabbing. Like one of the kids got bullied so much that she was suicidal so her dad went to the school and choked one of the bullies. He had red marks on his neck for weeks after that. Like wtf. I was like i dont even know whos side to be on im just genuenly scared.

  • @rapauli
    @rapauli Год назад +1

    Wonderful to hear you swear.

  • @cosmicspacething3474
    @cosmicspacething3474 Год назад +2

    Number 7 isn’t too bad if you’re doing it so that you can improve, just as long as you’re not being rude about it. Having calm, polite discussions with your audience is pretty healthy

  • @dottyspot
    @dottyspot Год назад +1

    5:52 YOU'RE A CHAMPION
    i absolutely hate ai art, it just feels like they don't want to try create something beautiful with their own hands. if you can't draw well, you can commission someone. but ai art steal from people who put hours of their life into creating something amazing just for it to be stolen by a soulless program.

  • @nikkimirhosseyni9535
    @nikkimirhosseyni9535 Год назад +1

    I agree with most of these, but that “my characters just wouldn’t behave” doesn’t really bother me. Like obviously they don’t think they are real or that readers think they are real, it’s just a fun way of saying “plans changed”. When you have an initial plan and a handful of character concepts, it isn’t always clear how all those elements will mesh once they are fully fleshed out. A particular relationship or name might not feel right anymore after those characters are fleshed out and their stories are fully formed, and a I think personifying those changes in the plan is just a more fun way to say it.

  • @soniabu2316
    @soniabu2316 Год назад +1

    Not directly related, but this video reminded me of something that happened a few weeks that I thought would be fitting to share here.
    One of my sister’s friends sent her their essay in her discord dms. She read the whole thing and started trying to give them some constructive criticism. They immediately got angry and defensive, saying things like “you just don’t understand what I was trying to say” and “it’s not finished yet”, even though a lot of the critiques were grammar related and not even about the writing itself. She then asked them why they sent it to her if they weren’t looking for feedback.
    Their response? “I didn’t expect you to actually read it”.
    Dude. You posted all three pages of the essay. In her dms. Just say you were fishing for compliments and move on.

  • @orionalexandersummers
    @orionalexandersummers Год назад

    I agree 100% with the last one like... get a room. Brilliant video!

  • @muixc
    @muixc Год назад +2

    I just got off work and you just uploaded. Yay! What a nice pick me up after work. Also, number 2 is just... gross, yikes. 😬

  • @Linaxtic
    @Linaxtic Год назад

    I couldn't stop laughing at the way you worded #10. Something about you saying butthole just cracked me up. (no pun intended?)

  • @GnarledStaff
    @GnarledStaff Год назад +1

    I've definitely encountered the author talking about the character having a mind or personality of its own in a non-cringy way. Its a common mindset for discovery writers who discover the plot as the character gets to it.
    Theres a difference between "the character chose this" and "I have no control over them"

  • @tiffanydoris3
    @tiffanydoris3 Год назад +1

    You had me actually laughing out loud during that last point 😂😂😂

  • @vivandefuncti8991
    @vivandefuncti8991 Год назад +2

    As a writer who does experience her characters as 'having a will of their own' I'll offer a little insight. Obviously, I know they are my creations at the end of the day. But when they 'do something I didn't tell them to' its actually my subconscious intuition telling me they would probably react differently then I originally planned. It's basically the same as predicting what an actual person would do. You have a such a feel for your characters you instinctively know how they would react subconsciously rather than consciously.
    For example: I had a character who was mauled rip her mask off during an argument. It wasn't planned, but in the heat of the moment, it felt like doing anything else was disingenuous to the character.

    • @zakosist
      @zakosist Год назад +2

      I think that's valid, its good to have an impression of what they're like. They wouldn't be realistic characters if there is no consistency to their personality, goals and views. But if they "refuse" to do what the plot requires you may have written the wrong character

    • @vivandefuncti8991
      @vivandefuncti8991 Год назад +2

      @@zakosist For me, character always comes before plot. My character 'refusing' to do something means it would feel forced. Their refusal is my refusal to assassinate the character. At that point, I go with what would be their reaction and adjust the plot accordingly. It 100% always makes it better in the end, as every action feels like it was made in the moment by that character, not that they are chess pieces moving around a board by the author.
      But of course, that is my method. Everyone is different.

  • @tsandabernal3305
    @tsandabernal3305 Год назад +10

    Thank you for saying that about the AI, the artist community appreciates it 💜

  • @NC-dw1ir
    @NC-dw1ir Год назад +1

    If your characters aren't real to you as a writer, they won't feel real to your readers. I'm an architect but I tried using an outline when I got stuck and I'm still stuck. In the same place, might I add. Outlines don't work for everybody and people who want to let their imagination and characters move the plot over an outline will probably have less out of character moments and fewer plot contrivances. At least, that's what I've noticed.

  • @woodben1846
    @woodben1846 Год назад +1

    Personally, I normally don’t watch Jenna’s channel to learn how to be a better writer. Sure, she’s great at teaching us the basics, but like she says, apps like skill share or master class work way better. Still, Jenna is responsible for igniting my passion for writing, and I will never forget her for it. Great video by the way.

  • @qine6559
    @qine6559 Год назад

    Respect to you Jenna! Cyborg Queen knows writers and readers are not the same circle but symbiotic still ❣️

  • @ehhhhhh1885
    @ehhhhhh1885 Год назад

    5:38
    i think what writers *mean* when they say this is that they characterized the character in a way that didn't fit for the original outline they had planned
    i think

  • @funkycowie
    @funkycowie Год назад +1

    #10 I have never laughed so much from a 'normal' youtube video. Cat fail video's get me more... but still 🤣🤣🤣

  • @hglundahl
    @hglundahl Год назад

    14:25 Wait "Shut and and Write the Book" is also available as audio book?

  • @spookyfirst9514
    @spookyfirst9514 Год назад +3

    #4 and #7 are especially icky. Thanks for those. (I'm burnt out on the AI art subject. Mostly from those who insist they should use it because it's a 'tool'.)

  • @gnarthdarkanen7464
    @gnarthdarkanen7464 Год назад

    I once got the lucky chance to have a fairly personable conversation with a relatively well known author. I asked about critics and reviews... how to deal when bad ones show up... and the like. He was basic, and brutally honest.
    "Well, those who can, do it. Those who can't do it, teach about it. AND those who can't even manage to teach about it, bitch and whine and cry about everybody else."
    I've never forgotten that bit of advice. It wasn't just the one guy, and he even admitted that he'd been told the same or similar... The thing is, it's very true on a multitude of levels through a LOT of different paths you can take in life. It's frequently reinforced my own self confidence when I've worked on something and there's someone who absolutely MUST mock it, tear it down, or insult anyone else who seems interested in it... whatever.
    Anyways... I hope it helps someone else at least as much as it's helped me over the years. ;o)

  • @quietestkitten
    @quietestkitten Год назад +1

    For tip #3, I totally understand. It’s not that the characters are *actually* real. It’s that the characters live in the author’s mind, and the author can feel what does or doesn’t resonate with the character. And that can change if you adjust the character’s personality… but that adjustment *is* needed, otherwise it feels wrong.

  • @Andovers848
    @Andovers848 7 месяцев назад

    I reads Somes comment about the third point, and I have to agree cause this is how I would write : it's not about the character being real or not, but about what feel the most natural, the most life-like series of events

  • @lk_3099
    @lk_3099 Год назад

    Good thing you mentioned the part about adding a character from my personal life to do them bad.
    I was thinking of adding a bully from when I was younger, but I was unsure of what to do with her since I felt more guilt about the situation.

  • @CassTeaElle
    @CassTeaElle Год назад

    I'll never understand people who hate on the phrase "sometimes my characters get away from me." I just don't get that at all.
    As a very character driven writer who loves characters and psychology, I absolutely allow my characters to direct the story a lot of the time. And I think that makes for wonderful fiction with believable characters.
    Some people who hate on this mindset, tbh, end up writing stories where their characters make a bunch of choices that are completely out of character, but the author just needed them to happen for plot reasons. That's not good.
    Idk, to me, those moments where the characters sort of take over and direct you are some of the most fun, joyful, rewarding parts of writing. I can't imagine someone taking that way from me or making me feel like it's bad.
    I still vividly remember one scene I was writing that I had initially intended to be mostly sweet and a little bit of a hint of romance, and instead, my characters started arguing. I legitimately did not plan for that at all, but it just felt natural and right in the moment, and you know what? It was absolutely fantastic! It made their relationship so much deeper. Instead of just being a sweet scene, it turned into a scene where the male character called the female character out for all of the ways she was avoiding her problems. He totally shook up her world in that scene, and it made the next few chapters so much richer. I LOVED seeing him challenge her in a way that nobody else was doing, and it was exactly what she needed, because she was, indeed, being cowardly. She needed someone to challenge her, and that became one of the qualities in him that she really admired and found attractive. Because of his boldness, he became a catalyst for her wakeup-call moment that I had planned to take place a few chapters later.
    I can't imagine what the story would have been like if I had stopped myself from listening to my characters and just stuck to the outline. I don't think that would have been an improvement. And it would have been a heck of a lot less fun.
    To me, those moments are what I hope for every time I write. They're what make writing so exciting and enjoyable. They're what make me feel like my story has truly come alive, when my characters are like "hey, listen, I know you wanted me to do this thing, but I don't think I would do that in this situation, so... you're gonna have to pivot." When I have those revelations, it's a good indication, to me, that I've really gotten the character. I understand them better than I did during the beginning phases of writing, and that means the story is probably just getting better and richer and more impactful.

  • @dawnmoore9122
    @dawnmoore9122 Год назад +1

    #3: You were there when you made your characters, but my mom was there when she made me, so I don't think that's a great argument against their being real!

  • @dori411
    @dori411 Год назад +1

    Whenever I hear an artist obsessively complain about bad reviews all I hear is "You obviously just don't understand the greatness that is my genius!" in the voice of drunk Terl from Battlefield Earth. Film makers and Comedians seem to be the worst.

  • @thoughtfuldevil6069
    @thoughtfuldevil6069 Год назад +3

    I would never fictionally murder somebody to wreak metaphorical vengeance on them. I did, however, write a novel about the woman who abused me in High School, because I want other victims like me to know they are not alone and for other potential victims to know what to look out for.

    • @VXMasterson
      @VXMasterson Год назад +3

      I've thought about doing the same thing for the same reason. I don't think I'll end up doing it, at least not for the immediate future. I almost gave the protagonist of the current series I'm writing an abusive girlfriend, but not only did it not fit into the narrative, it felt like I was projecting my trauma more than I was exploring a topic I felt needed to be talked about.
      If you ever publish your novel, I hope it reaches the people who need it.

    • @thoughtfuldevil6069
      @thoughtfuldevil6069 Год назад +1

      @@VXMasterson Thanks! And my book is out, it's called "Lights Are Off, But Everyone's Home." It's my fifth so far.
      I hope you can heal. You didn't deserve what happened to you, and I wish I could've done something to stop it. Just know you're stronger than you think you are.

  • @Draybolt4
    @Draybolt4 Год назад

    I agree with most of these. A couple are very dependent on different variables, but otherwise a solid list 10/10 would recommend

  • @Yukalitlee
    @Yukalitlee Год назад +1

    I can understand all of these, but whether it's because I'm mentally ill or just extremely passionate, I have no intentions of changing #3. My characters are real to me, in a way. Sort of like imaginary friends. But by all means I expect everyone to do whatever they want. I don't talk openly about my characters like that, only to a couple VERY close friends. I know most people wouldn't understand or would think it's weird or cringy. You do you and I'll do me, that's all I'm saying.

  • @gremlininblue2601
    @gremlininblue2601 Год назад

    5:20 honestly I've always sort of paired these sort of things with kids writing on wattpad lol, if I see them saying stuff abt the characters making choices or wanting this or those things where they pretend theyre talking to them I just know that 9/10 I'm in for some ameteur writing but if it's not bad ameteur writing I usually still read it anyways if the premise is good

  • @2006HondaCivicD
    @2006HondaCivicD Год назад +2

    Using ai art for commercial use is really icky. But it doesnt ick me as much if done for personal use much like a concept art you wanna make but couldnt afford to hire commissions or able to draw for yourselves. Definitely a real gray area, and this is coming from a digital artist much like myself

  • @baalinfinity2216
    @baalinfinity2216 Год назад

    I'll have to make sure to write you into my book series.

  • @sallyreno6296
    @sallyreno6296 Год назад

    My top three icks. !-Writers Block (oh please) 2-Imposter Syndrome 3-"I write like I talk (and if you don't, you're wrong.)"

  • @littlewagers
    @littlewagers Год назад +1

    God, I used to write my bullies into my books ALL THE TIME. The amount of editing I’ve had to do bc I wouldn’t go to therapy is humiliating

  • @maxxpowr7666
    @maxxpowr7666 Год назад

    That was great!

  • @derinwithaq5811
    @derinwithaq5811 Год назад

    I really try not to use purple prose in conversation, but I’ve gotten into a habit of it so it can be tough

  • @vamporchid
    @vamporchid Год назад

    A few years back, I went to a Con. Me and a friend were given a few books before hand from new authors that had panels set up for this Con. We read the books and then went to the panels. On one particular panel, they set us up in groups where we talked with the author's PR peeps. We went over why we liked or disliked the book, what plot points were garbage and which ones were great. Myself, my friend and one other person in the entire room hated the book. We were all seated in the front row after the groups were separated and brought in as an actual panel event audience. The PR peeps went up to the front, asked questions to obvious fans of the books and then basically asked us why we hated this or that. Over and over. After that, they were like oh by the way the Author has been sitting in the back the entire time. Now, because this author was new, none of us knew what they looked like. My friend and the other person was embarrassed, I laughed out loud. What was the point of this? To embarrass the readers or the author? Either way, I knew that I didn't care. This was obviously not a tactic I cared for and it was a push in the right direction for me to never by from this author or publishing house. Not only did they single us out, they informed us that we were part of a small group that didn't even get the full book. That's right, sections of the book were missing for us. I doubt it would have changed my opinion. Man did that experience ever leave a bad taste in my mouth....

  • @writinghappyhour6945
    @writinghappyhour6945 Год назад

    This was beautiful.

  • @narutogoldylocks
    @narutogoldylocks Год назад

    “My loin’s burning with lust” 😂😂😂😂😂 dead lmfaoooo