I’m literally crying, I Love God but I feel so bad for those who are not meat to receive his Glory. I don’t deserve anything more than anyone in this Earth. It hurts to say that I am grateful for God salvation.
Let not you hearts be troubled. I used to feel the same. I was scared for people (family) that they might go to hell. What I found is God loves all of us (Humanity), died for us to show us that he loves us and he will not let us be lost sheep forever. All will be saved (as a matter of destiny). He came to save the world 🌎. God has put me at ease, I am free from that evil doctrine of hell. Peace my brethren.
People. Some things just are not meant for us to understand. Our little brains cannot measure up to God’s thought process. That’s why we just pray that HIS will be done. If you read this comment and you’re lost, just please, Surrender your life to Christ. He is calling you out of death and to a life of eternity spent with Him. Life is too short to “have fun” and to keep sinning and fall straight into hell. Love God, Trust God and His Word, with all your heart; and You, will live. His will be done. Amen.
Our brains and hearts can know some things about God, and we know them by His word. May you find the biblical freedom to reject that which denies what kind of God He is, according to His word, and freedom from false teaching about His word.
KT, I wasnt deliberately not responding.....anyway.... ..its our fault or Esaus fault simply becasue God said it was......we are created beings.. ..n you are right about church membership plummeting.. ..no one wants God..
I believe GOD saves people for himself,and the others are left to their own devices.some will be saved most won’t.its their choice.if you are predetermined to be saved,you are part of a royal priesthood. The ones that won’t be saved make their own choices in life.it’s just a theory. JER.17,9.”THE HEART OF MAN IS DESPERATELY WICKED AND DECEITFUL ABOVE ALL THINGS”
..psst rocket man......one doesnt surrender their life to jesus to be saved.. ..one believes on Jesus to be saved.. ..n it's not difficult to wrap ones mind around the fact that Jesus created all things for himself and all things are ordained and planned by the king even who gets saved and who doesn't.. ..jesus is god and does what he wants.. ..people may find it hard to accept but it is easy to understand.. ..n john piper is a wolf.. ..jsyk..
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
It all boils down to the scripture that says the Lord knows those who are his and everyone who turns to the Lord MUST depart from iniquity. All men are evil by nature but from them we get two kinds of responses when they hear the word of truth: 1. Some will flee to take hold of the hope held out in the gospel and be saved. 2. Some, because of the love for sin and the benefits they derive from it, will reject the truth and be condemned. Before time begun God foreknew everyone's decisions and predestined them accordingly. Those who would harden their hearts he predestined them for ignoble purposes and destruction like Judas Iscariot and Pharaoh. Those who would yield to the call of God he prepared them in advance for noble purposes and glory.
The goodness of God brings us to repentance. We should love and serve God not because of punishment but because we love Him for the unfathomable extremes that He gone through for us. God is Pure Love and all His judgments are perfect and pure and true and just. Work with God because you love Him not out of fear.
@@noahguillen2201 .... I never said you were MY child, just A child. And WHO do you think the "thee" represents in Romans 2:4 ? I assume you have a POINT to make? ------- As in your original post.... who do you imagine "us" represents? -------- Tell me child, WHO loves God? The elect or the reprobate? ----------
2Peter 3:9 says that God does not will that anyone should perish. That means the will of God is that all be saved. That shows that He never pre-destined anyone to hell. But choices are made by people to receive Jesus or not. A person's wrong choice not only affects him but also generation after generation after him. But then again anyone who is saved is by grace. Everyone who has heard the Gospels has heard the will of God for him/her. The choice is up to them to receive it or reject it.
Basically, while man does have a free will, it is not free because of original sin. Think of a computer lacking important apps in order to function. Man lacks the app to do good works that are righteous in God's sight. For salvation to occur, God must step in and monergistically change the "want to" in the doomed sinner, installing (imputing) righteousness and giving the formerly lost sinner new desires, and a new want to. In effect, saving that person. Lost and saved man both have a free will to do many things: conduct bypass surgery, hit a triple, have sex, hold up a bank. God "decrees" such activity in that he does not appear to interfere with the conduct, even when sinful. But the important word is not decree, but "ordain". The easy definition of ordain is to "use it". There are no maverick molecules in God's universe. Otherwise, God would not be in control. Two big examples of this truth appear in the Bible (and many others), one in the OT, the other in the NT. The first is in Genesis 50 where Joseph tells his brothers that their selling him into slavery was meant for evil, but God meant it for good. The second is in the NT where God uses the actions of Judas and others to kill Jesus, yet look at the eternal good established in those acts. Finally, there are many more Bible passages that support everything said here (you can look them up), but I would also direct you to Chapter 3 of the Westminster Confession. The WCF is not the Bible but a restatement of BIble truths like a really great sermon, though better. God bless you in your studies.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
Here's who God will have mercy on: " *God* has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all." (Romans 11:32, ESV). "The creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of *him* who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:19-21, ESV). As you can see, in both passages, God appears to take responsibility for man's sin, and hints at a glorious future for all mankind.
Thus says The Lord: By My prophets have I made My plans known. Yet that which I am about to do is done already, and shall be. And that which I have spoken from the beginning, even to this day, is true. For the will of God can not be broken, even as The Scriptures. And if My every word is Scripture, then how shall even one word fail? Yet My people fall away, and My little flock grows smaller still. For they seek to loosen these bonds in an attempt to flee this bundle. For the Way of The Lord is not known among them, and My words have ceased from being a blessing. And so they flee back into the world in an attempt to escape, as in all times past, for they have no root. Yet I tell you the truth, none shall escape their bundle. For all bundles lie in the field already, each one tied securely and set in its place. Therefore as one attempts to flee this bundle, the truth of the matter is made plain. For they have not departed at all, but remain in the bundle in which I had placed them at the first. I AM THE LORD. Beloved ones, I search the hearts and minds, even the innermost thoughts I know; even from the foundation of the world did I know each one of you, setting you in your place from the beginning. Yet some will say, “What of free will and our right to choose?” To these I say: You have chosen, and the will of your heart has spoken, and thus were you bundled and prepared. For I know My own. Thus the Bride is chosen; My blood runs through her veins, My image is shown upon her face... Behold, the light of My coming is reflected In her eyes, for I have captured her gaze, And she will by no means look away Or seek after another... Therefore some are plucked from The world already, and shall also be taken; They shall surely be gone from this place!... Says The Lord. Source: trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=The_Harvest_Is_Separated%2C_All_Bundles_Set_in_Their_Places
Why would a regenerated believer choose to have children? You are choosing to bring someone into the world with the knowledge that God may have chosen them in eternity past for hell?
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) -----------
Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it , “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? Romans 9:18-21
@@johnkronz7562 Paul never refutes it in the since of the elect. There's a reason why the word elect is used over and over even by our lord Jesus christ. God is sovereign over all. The Lord has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. Proverbs 16:4
this is a scary thought, and i can neither agree nor disagree because i don't know. God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts and even Revelation 13:8 says: "and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain." whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world.. it means God knows who are those whose name is not written even before the foundation of the world 😣 it's a scary thought and we could only trust Jesus Christ to save us.
Whatever God does is good and right by definition. He is the maker of Heaven and Earth and men. God can judge men but not the other way. Men do not know enough or smart enough to know God's plan or logic. God is always right, by definition.
Is bearing good fruit (attending church, tithing, praying) all just a waste of time then? If you're predestined to hell, why bother? How about witnessing as Christ instructed? Why bother to witness to doomed souls? Why are we even here at all if what do or don't do doesn't matter?
- Anyone in hell deserves to be there and will be held accountable for their choices. - Modern society struggles to accept a God with vast authority, complexity, and power. - Bible verses are presented as evidence of God's role in predestination, including Ephesians 1:11, Proverbs 16:4, 1 Peter 2:7-8, Jude 4, 2 Peter 2:3, Romans 9:11, and Romans 9:22. - God determines who will be saved and lost, but the process is mysterious and just, with the redeemed acknowledging grace and the lost acknowledging their suppression of knowledge.
Calvinism wants to assert that God arbitrarily predestines some few to Heaven and the majority to hell. BUT the Bible clearly teaches God's predestination is based on His FOREKNOWLEDGE.
Calvinism makes the most sense for me. I believe that those who truly have the Spirit of God in them will understand the deep and hidden things of God, and understand the true character of God. God has predestined two groups of people.. The Sheep and the Goats. God has chosen to set his unfathomable love on the sheep, and his wrath and judgment on the goats. We can't ask or answer back to God why he has done it like this. He is the potter we are the clay. But we know one thing for sure that everything happens for God's glory and to the praise of His glorious name. People hate calvinism or the doctrines of grace, because they don't understand the condition of this world. People believe that there is some good in everybody.. but this is not the case. Everyone is a vile sinner that has disobeyed and spat in the face of God. No one deserves salvation. Regeneration by the spirit takes place in the elect person at some point in their lives. These people that have the Holy Spirit are chosen before the foundation of the world. God cares for these people, they never leave his sight. But as for the reprobate God will send panic and dread upon them. They will feel God's wrath and fury in this life.. and the next.. Everything comes back to God. It's all about him. It's all about Jesus. Being chosen is the best thing that can happen to someone. The elect will know that they have God on their side. The non-elect cannot hear the voice of God nor will they want to in their fallen state. They are the enemies of God predestined for eternal torment. If you have God's Spirit in you then the Bible will come to life! The Psalms are awesome because it talks about the hope of the righteous and the downfall of the wicked. If you know truly that you are saved and reading this then I look forward to seeing you in heaven :) Things might be tough now but don't worry the Lord will always watch over you. You are being regenerated by the Spirit each day for a greater hope. Thank you God for choosing me. A vile sinner. Never caring or wanting God in the first place. But by his Spirit I have been made new. Not by my own doing. But by his power and his power alone. I didn't choose God nor have the will to do so. He chose me and... yes FORCED me into his Kingdom. But I couldn't be happier :)
This topic is 1 that people shouldn't believe if it will undermine their love for God. In time, through bible reading, they may come to see it on their own as true & then revel in the goodness of God & His love for them!
Calvanist "People are responsible and accountable for thier own sin, so they deserve eternal seperation". So Does God ordain everything? Calvanist " Yes of course he does every single thing he has ordained he is sovereign, so Pope Auguestine and Pope John Calvin taught us loyal subjects". OK, so God ordained people to sin and all thier sins and they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do' Calvanist " God's in control who are we to question God, if he wants to create people and ordain them to sin and then for his glory punish them for eternity for his glory that's his business ". OK, so why can't people respond in faith as you say why are they blind ?. Calvanist They can't open thier eyes unless God opens them. So God made them blind told them to repent knowing they can't open thier eyes. Then he punishes them for being blind when he ordained they where ?. Calvanist : Yes that's write😂 Thank God am not a calvanist, this is actually what auguestine and Calvin taught. I don't think this is God of bible. Any thoughts 😂
I know I am talking from a position of privilege however I truly believe we all are blessed for even a moment of life. There’s no reason besides what reasoning God has for us to even be able to live and consider these things. What would change had I not ever existed? I wouldn’t know otherwise either way… and thats a tough pill to swallow but it is a pill to willingly swallow. Even those that are not given the spirit to believe are given a chance to walk alongside those that do. Suffering comes to us all regardless and that is what is supposed to be the bridge to connect those with favor and those without… again tough to do and easy for me to say as someone who, if my life was over tomorrow received exceeding amounts of blessing… but I believe it to be true regardless. All I can do is take my faith, my belief in my own favor that I do not deserve, and do the best I can with it.
This last year and a half have been the hardest on my 12 years marriage, I'm really trying to stand back some, God soften our hearts, amen. Prayers for your situation.
It scares me that my heart is grieving over this, because I still love God and absolutely acknowledge that He is sovereign and knows better than I. I do not want to be worldly in my thinking or prideful as if I know better. Praying for you all to have comfort in this as well.
It sounds like you are a really good, caring person. Is it good to love a god who burns people forever just because that god "claims" to be good? If a good god gave you a mind it should be OK to use it. Don't be afraid to think critically about your faith.
@@philipmunson3369. Who are you O man that repliest against God? Can the thing formed say unto the Him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus? God is free to do anything he wants, sin is so wicked that it deserves eternal punishment. Human minds cannot grasp the seriousness of sin, neither can it grasp the holiness of God. If you sin you have sinned against an Almighty Holy God, you are deserving of hell. Please humble yourself, I used to think hell was just too much, but then as I meditated on how wicked sin it I began to realise God's punishment is good and just.
Jesse Gandy, God created us to be with Him in heaven... All God's children deserve heaven...Can you please give a verse for your for what you said that ''all of us deserve hell''? Thanks
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo romans 3:23 the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ. 2 peter 3:9. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Luke 13:3 but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. We deserve hell because of our sin "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)," ephesians 2:4-5 So if "you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9.
@@cjpetty1, Sorry bro., But none of the verses you gave say that we deserved hell... You wrote: ''''We deserve hell'''' because of our sin "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)," ephesians 2:4-5 =>>> You just inserted ''We deserved hell'' Why are you changing the scriptures???? It is not right in the sight of God... I was asking you to give me a verse that says, we deserved hell and you gave a verse and added a lie.....
@@cjpetty1, I did not say that we all deserved heaven... But all the elect will be saved... John 6:39 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.=>>> How do you understand this verse?
Just my interpretation of the scripture. If God is sovereign and all powerful with no beginning or end. He has already seen and been to the end of our time and he already dwells with us in heaven NOW. knowing who will make it to heaven from the beginning and who will not no matter how he intervenes in their life, I believe this is what predestination is in his ultimate love and wisdom. Yes even God in all his power cannot make a person turn to him and since he knows who those people are he simply determines the end from the start since nothing is hidden from him. He does not need to wait for our death to know where we will end up.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
We are spiritually dead brother. And that means DEAD DEAD DEAD! We don't want anything to do with the bible or GOD. We don't care at all about our souls condition or anything relative to it. Tell someone physically dead to just have faith and get up. How can they there dead? Being spiritually dead is the same thing.It would take a act from GOD for either of those to happen , just like to be saved from spiritual death , it takes GOD to do that and if you're struggling with sin and concerned about your souls condition and afraid of the guilt and penalty of sin which is everlasting hell or anything related to GOD'S WORD , my friend you can rest assured that that is GOD dealing with you because those concerns are spiritual evidence . Because man's nature and his heart are enemies of GOD. And having more and more thoughts of spiritual things is from nobody except GOD above. It's a WONDERFUL thing to be troubled about ones soul and tore plum up, because that means it's from THE ALMIGHTY and HE WILL finish what HE starts. You are and will be prayed for brother
I cannot support this. This flies in the face of everything I know of the living God. To think that God would create people that he loves who have absolutely no chance of redemption no matter what they may desire seems totally opposite of God's character of love. Yes, we all deserve hell and death, but to think that everyone's fate is already determined is nonsense. Why give the Great Commandment if it's already decided? Why have churches? Why have missionaries? I have much respect for John Piper and John Macarthur, but I cannot disagree more strongly.
Amen. What Piper is saying is theological confused gibberish. The calvinistic view of God is that before anyone did right or wrong, before the foundation of the world, God decided to elect people to eternal life. This being the case, then by default everyone else is part of the non-elect (whether directly chosen as non-elect or made non-elect because they are not elect) and thus predestined for the lake of fire. the Bible does teach that people who end up in the lake do deserve to go there because they face God with their sins in tact rather than facing God with Christ as their intercessor. This is where Calvinists do so why their doctrine is gibberish in light of the Bible. People cannot possibly be responsible for ending up in the lake of fire if they were made part of the non-elect BEFORE the foundation of the world and BEFORE anyone did anything right or wrong. They are predestined to the Lake of Fire BECAUSE they were not chose as part of the elect. Calvinists have their heads buried in the sand if they can't see this conclusion from what it means for WHEN people are chose to be elect and non-elect. The eternal state of both has nothing to do with anything about us but what calvinism's god did BEFORE anyone did right or wrong. You should take a look at this video ruclips.net/video/Daomzm3nyIg/видео.html
@@jacksonbenzick2357 the Bible has no contradictions much less tons of them. I have seen that it is always the ignorance of people who claim contradictions that don't study the Bible. God does not predestine anyone to hell. That is a calvinist idea that is rooted in their philosophy which started with Augustine who brought it in from his previous pagan beliefs. John Piper long ago discarded the Bible for Calvinists views . it is the Calvinist philosophy that is at odds with the Bible and not the Bible at odds with itself.
This short video demonstrates why I consider Piper one of the most underrated and under-considered theological "explainers" of our time. For he would rightly point out he is not a theologian because nothing he says is novel or newly understood, per se, but he does explain simply, reverently, concisely and very patiently and compassionately as a man who has wrestled with these things at great length difficult, controversial and hard-to-hear theological concepts.
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 You should read Death to death by John Owens in pdf online for free, and with scripture he will change your mind. God is the one who elects, redeems, sanctifies, and glorifys us. When we say we make the final decision on our salvation, that is to say we save ourselves ultimately and Jesus just helps. All that does Is just minimizes the efficacy of the cross, and steals his glory. Jesus Died for the elect and he will not fail to gain one intended sheep. Let’s just be happy we have been shown mercy. God has perfect wisdom and the rest deserve hell just like us, just because we are saved doesn’t mean God owes the others, just means he did something good that he didn’t have too. Anyways God bless, I think that book would change your mind.
b**-This is a really bad apologetics video, it doesn't answer why God creates people that God knows will reject him. Is he forced to create all humans even the ones that go to hell. if not why not create only those who go to heaven? Free will is not a solution because in heaven we will have free will and there will be no sin please help.
1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12). John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception. 2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell. 3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ. 4. John Piper is inadvertently doing Satan's work for him. He's deceived, and he's deceiving others.
Twice you mentioned that the sinner has a "choice." I thought choice wasn't an option , especially if you are elect to salvation. Piper said, "Everyone who perishes has 'chosen' sin in such a way as to be truly responsible for his 'choice,' and truly guilty, and truly deserving of judgment.” So were the Arminians right in saying that God "looked down a portal of time and saw who would and would not choose him, and determined their destination based on His foreknowledge? Pretty interesting how at one point God is sovereign and can do whatever He wants, but then the choice is the sinners. Hmm...something is amiss.
What if part of His sovereignty is His choice to give us a choice? I haven’t heard about the arminians, but that’s an interesting thought. The Holy Spirit reveals truth, I pray He will answer this question for you. But if He does not, I beg you not to make the mistake of rejecting God because of our own limited knowledge. He has changed me, I am a new creature. I should’ve been dead so many times. I am testifying to His goodness!
You are quite correct in this point. Pastor John just needed to clarify that I think. Especially with as important of a point as it is. But think about it. If we were not able to count on Jesus forgiveness for all our sin then what would be the point of faith ?
@@nandimichel-trapaga2615 good thing I'm saved, but I do very much appreciate your genuine concern for the lost. But I will say this, inconsistency won't fly with the lost. If Piper sounds contradictory, they re not going to buy what he's selling. He needs to be very clear about how God elects, yet man is choosing. I understand Irresistible Grace according to Calvin, but either God selected us or not. I don't believe He does, I believe in free will, not the bondage of the will.
I don't agree with everything Piper says, but I appreciate that he's consistent. Since Piper claimed that God predestines everything, such as the tying of our shoelaces or the brushing of our teeth, it would have been inconsistent for him to say God doesn't predestine people to Hell.
I agree that Piper is consistent…..consistent in that that he’s been presenting a false distortion of Scripture and doesn’t really know what he’s talking about!!!!
@@mattr.1887 Well the good news on that one is that, say, sixty seconds after your last heartbeat you will definitively know the eternal answer. No worries....????
Who are we as mere mortals to try and comprehend the mind of God? Our finite minds could not begin to come close. God is Holy and we are completely hopeless outside of Christ.
If our minds are so imperfect, how can we know for certain God exists in the first place? Shouldn't such a pessimistic conception of the human mind result in absolute agnosticism and absolute skepticism?
@@andyisdead We can only know so much intellectually. But we can know a person personally, can't we? A fellow human being, we only know by what we can see. But God is able to communicate to our hearts who He is, and that is what the Bible says He does, reveal Himself to our inmost beings through His Holy Spirit. A person who believes in Jesus on the basis that the Holy Spirit convicted him/her that He is real and of the most righteous, holy and good character possible, that we need forgiveness and salvation, and that Jesus's death on the cross is sufficient to save us, knows Him, but may not know very much about Him, yet. We learn, but our initial and subsequent faith is not based on our intellectual understanding, not even our understanding of the gospel.
@Curt Christensen No, Curt, not necessarily. God has revealed things we can understand, but naturally there's a vanishing point, where things are beyond our understanding. For an illustration of how things are vastly beyond our ability to completely understand, look at quantum physics. Observation and the math tells them most of what they know, but most of the content that has been added is speculation. It is clearly at a vanishing point of human understanding, so they just speculate more wildly. If the first thing in knowing is knowing that you dont know, theyvare kind of failing that test, because they think the authority of "science" (meaning themselves) depends on their knowing almost it all, that they are 9/10 of the way towards their Grand Theory of Everything: just stay tuned; it's almost there. I don't believe it.
God could have simply never put the forbidden fruit in the garden of eve and sin would have never entered the world. thus, nobody would be going to hell if it wasnt for God. God is to blame for all evil
BUT FOREKNOWLEDGE DOES NOT IMPLY PREDESTINATION. I BELIEVE GOD PREDESTINES MANY EVENTS. MANY EVENTS THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE HAVE BEEN PREDESTINED. JESUS' BIRTH WAS PREDESTINED. JESUS' DEATH WAS PREDESTINED. JESUS' RESURRECTION WAS PREDESTINED. MANY THINGS IN OUR OWN LIVES COULD VERY WELL BE PREDESTINED. BUT GOD CERTAINLY DOES NOT PREDESTINE PEOPLE TO GO TO HELL. IT IS MAN'S CHOICE TO EITHER ACCEPT GOD'S PATH OR REJECT IT. 2PE 3:9 THE LORD IS NOT SLACK CONCERNING HIS PROMISE, AS SOME MEN COUNT SLACKNESS; BUT IS LONGSUFFERING TO US-WARD, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE. JOHN 3:16-18 MAKES EVERYTHING VERY CLEAR. GOD BLESS YOU
I appreciate this answer. I was just thinking about this the other day and thought to honor God is to do His will. So if He didn’t choose you to be saved and you live a life dishonoring God, are you honoring Him by fulfilling His will? Even though you’re breaking His laws and not turning to Him? And if God chose you not to be saved but you accept Him as Lord and Savior are you going against His will and dishonoring Him? That’s a paradox, it can’t be true. I accept that my human mind will not understand Gods infinite wisdom
Child... read the Bible: ------------ Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. -------------- Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, -----------------
The fact that u want to follow God is a gift from God. Most people simply don’t care. God draws people to follow him. It is not in our fallen nature to want to obey God. If u want to obey God it’s because He’s drawn you to him. If you want to be saved that is God convicting you to follow him. He’s not going to turn you away when it is him who draws us to him. No need to worry about all of this elect or non elect friend if you have a desire to follow God then u are among the elect. John 6:44. There’s another verse I can’t remember off the top of my head but it basically says how we can’t follow God without God softening our hearts to him
We should delight that the Lord has a real and deep compassion for perishing sinners. Yet this longing does not govern God's actions. He is governed by the depth of his wisdom expressed through a plan that no ordinary human deliberation would ever conceive. God's will to save all people is restrained by his commitment to the glorification of his sovereign grace. I would recommend reading about the differences between God's will of DECREE and will of COMMAND. There are many other examples like 2 Peter 3:9 that can be explained with this line of thinking. Such as the Lord willing that we obey him, yet we continue in sin. Or the Lord willing that the Isrealites flee Egypt, yet hardening Pharaoh's heart to prevent them from leaving. Etc.
@@aarongochnauer9576 So what you're saying is that it is not his will that they perish. And even though he can rescue them they are screwed because God has bigger things to worry about (like His glory) than the billions of his creatures suffering unimaginable pain in hell for all eternity in hell. This is the great loving compassionate God you worship...what a joke.
@@2growdaily181 I for sure see where you are coming from! It is a hard thing for myself to accept as well. I am sure there are much wiser people that could defend or even refute this, but I am a simple person, and the two things I come back to are: 1) God's thoughts are not our thoughts (meaning just because something doesn't seem logical to me, doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to God.) I realize this is not appealing though. 2) instead of asking "why won't God save EVERYONE?" we should be asking "why would God save ANYONE?" in the sense that we love sin, want to sin, and choose sin over and over again in direct defiance to God, how much grace and mercy he must have to even save one of us is amazing. Good questions though! let me know if you have any more.
@@aarongochnauer9576 You ask "why would God save ANYONE? Here a couple of reasons. He is our creator. He is supposed to be loving and compassionate. He commands us to love our enemies and to give them water. And it is just the plain descent and right thing to do. And lastly, supposedly the the death of Jesus has the power to overcome sin, death, and devil...so Jesus apparently paid the penalty for sin but God refuses to apply it to 99% of humanity. If we saw someone dying from fire or burning and refused to help them when it was in our power do so...we would be considered terrible humans. I can't believe that humans would be more compassionate and a better example of love than God. OR THIS WHOLE CALVINIST DOCTRINE IS FALSE AND MALIGNS AND MISREPRESENTS GOD'S TRUE CHARACTER.
"Does God Predestine People to Hell?" Well, John Calvin believed it. And millions believe it now. But it's NOT true! So why do these people believe it? It's easy... ...once you get on your knees and go straight to Jesus (who is the ONLY true God Almighty); and pray to him seriously and ask for "Wisdom", "Understanding" and "the Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"! Without that, NO bible is worth a penny UNTIL Jesus gives you those 3 things. Oh Indeed! Believe it or not. And the ONLY place ANY one can go on this can find the true truth; without errancy and/or fallibility; is to Jesus. Believe it or not. I didn't do it for a long 75 yrs of my 91 yr old's Christian. But NO more; because Jesus has shown me that "Predestination and Omniscience"; are as far apart as 2 Universes! IE: Predestination = you make things happen. ONLY Jesus can do that 100%! Omniscience = you KNOW things are going to happen before; but you do NOT always make it happen. Like: "If you put your hands on that stove; you are going to get burned!". And it happened. BUT...the stove was off and you didn't know it! Oh Yes. But with Jesus, it's different... Jesus KNOWS every thing that will EVER happen. But he does NOT always make it happen; most of the time. And that is the secret. Thus, John "Calvin's" miss-understood the power of Jesus. Thus, He wrote a book before Creation; and put EVERY thing that would ever be. And that makes John and his "echoes" think it's predestination. But that is WRONG! For, Jesus gave ALL humans "Free-Will". And He stays away MOST of the time. Thus, even though Jesus KNOWS it is going to happen, in essence, He never knows it. Now you say that can't be? Oh Yeah? Huh? Well think about this "knotheads"...Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Hooray! And the End of Story; and I rest me case... ...In any case kind Sir and Brethren, Please Pray OFTEN and Praise Jesus OFTEN; for He is the ONLY true "God Almighty"; there will ever have been. And may Jesus bless you and yours always. AMEN!
Every person walking the earth deserves hell. There are none good, no not one. This is why God is so loving, He gave us a way to be saved...Jesus. Everyone needs salvation. much love brothers and sisters Jesus Christ is King
max marrero Calvinism is heresy and unbiblical. John Calvin created his own Bible, a Bible in which God made people sin and proceeds to punish them for having carried out his will. Jesus never died for our sins in Calvinism. He died because God wanted to make his son suffer, even though he could save people without Jesus’s crucifixion. Calvinism is a false religion. Plain and simple.
@max marrero we all deserve hell exactly. God is Holy and just. First off Adam and Eve chose to eat the apple. God said do not eat that one apple. And what did they do? They ate the apple. That's how we are today God commands us what we should be doing and it's our decision are we going to follow God command or are we just not going to listen to him.
John keeps making God seem unrelatable and so out of reach and terrifying to trust, how can you love and trust a God you cannot understand?, when god is very relatable, its throughout the bible. Stop teaching people about zues! Teach them Yeshua!
If he predestines them to hell, how are they responsible?!!! If they are essentially “dead in sins” and “in bondage to sin” and are incapable of saving themselves, how are they responsible?!! They can’t acknowledge God without his help. If he doesn’t help them, knowing their state and knowing they can never choose him, how are they responsible for their own sin? This doesn’t make sense.
@TheTrinitarianRemnant888 EZEKIEL 18:30-32 “30 “THEREFORE, YOU ISRAELITE'S, I WILL JUDGE EACH OF YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN WAYS, DECLARES THE SOVEREIGN LORD. REPENT! TURN AWAY FROM ALL YOUR OFFENSES; THEN SIN WILL NOT BE YOUR DOWNFALL. 31 RID YOURSELVES OF ALL THE OFFENSES YOU HAVE COMMITTED, AND GET A NEW HEART AND A NEW SPIRIT. WHY WILL YOU DIE, PEOPLE OF ISRAEL? 32 FOR I TAKE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF ANYONE, DECLARES THE SOVEREIGN LORD. REPENT AND LIVE!”
Child, all men are born spiritually DEAD because of Adam. If you do not understand the BEGINNING of the Gospel... how can you understand ANY of the Gospel? ---------------- Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ------------- Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, --------------------
no. never. God doesn't predestined people to hell. God wants all people to be saved. Tax collector and harlot are first to saved and enter the Kingdom of God. Jesus came in the world not to destroy the lives but he will save them. Sir Pastor what you say is bad theology.
Here's what's wrong with this whole predestination thing: 1) How do we know that God hasn't predestined for everyone, including Satan, to eventually be saved? Who are we to say that He can't do what He pleases? Who are we to say that God has to damn anyone? If His sill is to damn, then He will damn. If it is to save all, then He will save all. So lets stop worrying about who will be saved and damned and just worry about whether YOU will be saved or damned. Have faith. Read the scriptures. Turn to God. Stop trying to figure out God's infinite mind. 2) Even if we did determine that somehow by reading the Bible that there was no flexibility in this question and that the Bible somehow demands that God must will to damn some or many souls, how does this help me? Am I predestined to salvation or damnation? Where's the list that I can look up? Is there an Internet site with this data in it that I can look up? What if i just live a really sinful life and feel down on myself -- does this mean that I am predestined and should give up? Or what if my name is Calvin and i have a "gut feeling" that I am saved. Is this certainty that I am saved? This doctrine gives no useful advice. It gives no predictive ability. Forget it. Maybe God does predestine salvation. Who cares? Turn to God. Find faith. Pray. Do good. Accept Jesus Christ. Read the Gospel. Stop worrying about something that smart people think they have figured out but in fact they haven't even scratched the surface because the mind of God is infinite and beyond their comprehension.
Amen. I myself wonder what is the point of this theology. Why does it matter if we’re Arminian or Calvinist? Or in the middle? What matters is if we believe in Jesus as savior, or not. Leave it at that. What is the importance of the other details? So we can boast in our depravity about how great God is and in the process fail to spread the gospel as He’s instructed us to do? The more I learn about Calvinism the more it feels like a lazy theology.
Silly child... we know because we READ the Bible. Obviously you need to READ the Bible because your question shows you have no understanding of what Scripture says. -------
I can tell you're a bit immature from your opening line, so let me tell you this -- read the WHOLE Bible, nit just the bits and pieces that seem to agree with your personal beliefs. And stop putting other Christians down. You're fuel for the atheists and Muslims. Let's work together.
@@kelseycooper5973 .... you ignorant little child. --------- (1) you say in your original post (and I quote) 1) How do we know that God hasn't predestined for everyone, including Satan, to eventually be saved? --------- We know this because the Bible PROMISES only the elect are saved. The Bible PROMISES that NO MAN will ever seek God, No, not even one. Jesus PROMISES that NO MAN can come to Him unless the Father "draws" them and Jesus PROMISES that ALL MEN the Father give Him will come and HE will lose NONE Jesus PROMISES the church consists of unsaved "tares" sown by Satan...destined to Hell Jesus PROMISES that hell will be heavily populated The Bible PROMISES that Hell is reserved for Satan and his Demons ---------------- And yet you know NONE of this and in your snowflake heretical delusion you even wonder if ALL MEN will be saved and even SATAN and his DEMONS will be saved. You are bat-shit looney and do not have the slightest CLUE about the Gospel. ----------------- You show by your "fruit" that you are an unsaved "tare" sown by Satan and destined to eternal torment. Make no mistake, you will be surrounded by other unsaved "Christians" as well as all those REJECTING Christ... like Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Secular Humanists, Pagans and Satanists. ------------------- In my almost 50 years of preaching I have NEVER seen a "Christian" as confused and ignorant as you. I have NEVER heard a "Christian" suggest that SATAN will be saved. Just pathetic. ----------------
So a baby that dies after one hour of life has chosen hell. How? He was born with original sin and worthy of hell, but what choice did he make? You are quite clear that god hates the damned before they do anything.
This question - predestination for Hell - has worried me because I have a hard time finding God no matter how hard I seek Him. I have this worry that maybe I'm one of the "vessels made for destruction"
Hey Benjamin! I struggled with this exact same thing for a while. The thing is, if God put you in the path to see His Good Word and His Glory, then he means more for you! I struggled feeling like i was one of those people that was destined for Hell, but, Praise the Lord, the more I spent praying and learning about Him and falling in love with Him, the more i realized that that was simply not me. I pray that he does the same for you! you have to push yourself to pray even when you don’t want to, study the Bible even when you don’t want to, etc. I would ask that the Lord forgive me for any incorrect theological ideas in this, if there are any. God Bless!
The very fact that you're trying to find God shows that you're well on your way to finding Him. Keep on asking, it SHALL be given. Keep on seeking, you SHALL find. Keep on knocking, it SHALL be opened. Jesus says"Him that cometh to Me, I shall in no wise cast out"John 6:37 Please rest on the Word of God. Don't bother about predestination. That's God's work. Our work is to trust and obey!
@@sammiejones2012 Dear Sam, those words of yours sound so blessed and sensible! I've been struggling for a year already with this - which has been the worst battle ever, a real nightmare that I can't seem to wake up from! If there's any chance I could briefly write or talk to you about it, please say hi @ diegoribeiroabc@gmail.com Kind regards from Brazil, Diego Ribeiro
Dear brother Benjamin... This is a lie a belief the devil wants to use to stop you from seeking God... God words are true he exalts his words beyond even his name and what did his word say it says when you seek me with your whole heart then you shall find me... Your question your search now should be how do i seek God with my whole heart. Am i already seeking God with my whole heart... Please don't let the devil deceive you be blessed.
1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12). John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception. 2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell. When one trusts in Christ and is saved, he becomes predestined for heaven and service to God. No one is determined before creation to be saved. That would be salvation outside of Christ. 3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ. Scripture repeatedly confirms this. 4. John Piper is inadvertently doing Satan's work for him. He's deceived, and he's deceiving others. Seriously though, Calvinism is 100% Satanic. It's a theological trap set up to divide the church internally.
Even weirder that there are so many people who will not bend the knee before an Almighty God that much in charge of His universe. It is perhaps these people that scripture and Piper are talking about in this video.
@@joshuabeiswenger2141 Predestined or not predestined, all will bend the knee. Read the verse: "every knee"--"every knee"--"every knee". Philippians 2:10. You also see this in the Book of Revelation. You can surely find the verses without my help. One of the real spiritual weaknesses of A/P is the failure to see that the God we worship plays for keeps. I know this from experience having once been a deceived A/P myself. But we can know His love forever when we come to Him by faith, which is only accomplished through his elective grace. Eph 2:8-9.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
@@realtalkph.Amen. Im 100% in agreement. Ask any Christian if man has a free will, and ask for an immediate answer. Then ask if God has a free will and ask for an immediate answer. It’s an interesting experiment. Telling.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
@@realtalkph. Here's who God will have mercy on: " *God* has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all." (Romans 11:32, ESV). "The creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of *him* who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:19-21, ESV). As you can see, in both passages, God appears to take responsibility for man's sin, and hints at a glorious future for all mankind.
I love the way Pastor John begins the episode. It’s as if he’s saying it’s better to have a bad/wrong understanding of predestination that it is to have a bad/wrong understanding of God’s goodness and love.
The opening remarks that you shared, Pastor Piper, really hit home. You mentioned experincing a kind of mental and emotional torment in your early twenties, and here I am (21 years old) struggling and wrestling with many of the theological realities I believe, but find difficult to understand and organize within my full ( but always growing and progressing) knowledge of the Holy One. *"Full" as in my current capacity, but not the ultimate capacity of the knowledge of God.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
Boldly I proclaim…do I have all the answers? Absolutely no. God gave us a freewill so we could on our own freewill choose to accept or reject Jesus Christ with our freewill. True love has choice to love God or reject God. God wants true love not robots. The core problem with Pipers theology is that he downplays our freewill in salvation to make us robots because God is sovereign
Some topics aren’t meant for us to FULLY understand and that’s okay. Whatever the Bible says is true whether it seems to be predestination or not it doesn’t change the fact that the Bible says believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
God is perfect John Calvin is not , this is a Calvinist's commentary on biblical truths and is dangerous beyond measure. Read all scriptures not just the ones spoken of here and you will find the truth which will set you free. Calvin ws just a man... God is God. Saved by grace through FAITH otherwise salvation is is not for everyone only the lucky 'elect' ! Pride cometh before destruction.
There are many good preachers such as Tony Evans,Adrian Rogers ,A W Tozer (even though some have died still their messages are in youtube)beside these reformed preachers.i dont like these word of faith preachers,but also the reformed theology i dont agree with at all.Jesus died for all people (1john 2:2).if you believe in Jesus,you will be saved.whoever calls in the Name of the Lord will be saved.nobody is predestined for hell.predestination and free will are both in the Bible and is impossible to understand how they work together.maybe we will never understand it.is a MYSTERY.lets leave it there.is not for us to know.Trust God.God is good all the time.whoever believes in Jesus will be saved.
Isn't this exactly what Pastor John said? That although known and set by God, it is done in a way that a man's sinful choice leaves them accountable, and we cannot understand. That is literally the essence of reformed theology
If Jesus PAID for the sins of ALL PEOPLE then nobody will go to hell... because no sin must be paid TWICE. ----------- You have to make sure your "theory" harmonizes with ALL RELATED passages and not just one-or-two verses. All heresy harmonizes with one-or-two verses... ---------------- Jesus PAID for the sins of "His Sheep"... they have no condemnation. All others must pay for their OWN SINS (every idle word and even their sinful thoughts). This is theology 101... why is it NEWS to you? ----------
There are a multitude of scriptures that dispute Calvinism. If you are really interested in scriptural truth take a few minutes and read these verses: Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it." So, as a Calvinist, do you really believe that God arbitrarily creates some people for one reason; to burn for eternity in hell? They can't accept Christ dying on the cross for their sins. God somehow gets glory for making them sinners and sending them to hell. So, from the very start, God tells Adam and Eve, do not eat from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and yet He makes them eat from that very tree, since as per Calvinism, EVERYTHING is God's will. God gives the Ten Commandments, thou shall have no other gods before me, and then makes people worship false gods. God says, do not take God's name in vain, and then makes countless millions do that very thing. God says, do not kill, steal, commit adultery etc and then makes countless millions do the very things He says, don't do. A serial child molesting rapist/murderer is simply doing what God has ordained for him to do? You think of all the evil that is perpetrated on innocent people by evil, wicked, satanically driven individuals, and you want me to believe that God 's will is being carried out? The Bible says, God is holy, righteous, and full of mercy. AND the Bible says, God is love. God's will is not being carried out, at least not in the way Calvinists say. My Bible says, God is not willing that any should perish." and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it." So, while God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance and be saved, many, in fact, most are not. Calvinism has a problem with the Sovereignty of God. They just can't grasp that God, in His Sovereignty, can give man a degree of free will. Hence, Joshua can say, "Choose you this day whom you will serve." In act 17:30 God can call men everywhere to repent, that is, to change their mind about sin and turn from it and turn to God through Christ. Why are we called in the Bible to share the Gospel with the lost and lead them to Christ, if it won't matter; after all, God decides who is saved and who is lost, our preaching won't change that. If our preaching would in some way help them make a decision for Christ, that would imply some degree of free will. You mention how the Bible says, "No one can come to me unless the Spirit draws him..." It doesn't say, no one can come to me unless the Father MAKES him come. Yes, unless the Holy Spirit is working, we can't come to Christ, but when He draws us we are now able to say Yes or NO to His call. Again, that's why and how Joshua can say, "Choose you this day whom you will serve." The Calvinist God seems to be saying one thing in scripture and then going against His own words by making humans do the very things He says for us not to do.
I became a Christian couple of months ago, and the gospel message I was told was that God loves ALL sinners, and desires us to repent and be saved. After I got saved, I actively searched for bible studies to further my foundational knowledge of the Word. I see people saying, "our mental capacity cannot comprehend God's will / plan" "we won't know until we're in heaven", etc regarding this topic, but this has always been on the back of my mind. Maybe it's how my brain is wired? I always need to understand the big picture of everything to understand, and I can't seem to ignore this question; does God predestine people to hell? I'm tempted to believe what my other Christian friends believe; that the world has free will, and our salvation relies on whether we choose Jesus or not. However I'm struggling to search for the answer of what the bible truly says. I want to accept the entire biblical truth even if it's painful to, rather than nit picking what I choose to / choose not to, accept to feel better. And tbh, the idea that God would predestine people to hell depresses me, and makes me feel miserable. For instance, millions the babies being aborted today, that was their destiny? What's the point of protesting against abortion then? And this topic leads me to question, what's the point of all this? Why did God create us in the first place? Why bother creating the non-elect; those who are predestined to not choose Jesus in the end. If anyone can recommend me books, sermons, or offer an explanation, please do so!
Hi Ella, praise God that you have come to know Jesus as your Saviour! 🙌 This is the greatest news! I think what might help you is to first explore the character and nature of God.... Like Piper said, he doesn't want to undermine the justice and goodness of God.... First be assured of what you believe about God before tackling a topic like this.... I think this might be helpful. Grace and peace to you on your journey with Christ🙏
You were told a LIE. God does not love all sinners. And you probably are following a false gospel (heresy) thinking that YOU initiated your salvation... that is not possible. -----------
All babies go to heaven, not even Calvinists would deny this. As for God's seeming cognitive dissonance - it's God's active decree of will suppressing His passive will. God can desire something in a sense but not bring it to pass for reasons such as glorification of Himself. God also didn't desire for sin to enter but He let it, neither did He desire for His Son to be mocked, beaten and tortured to death but predetermined it for the sake of His active will. In essence, God's commitment to His glory comes before His other desires.
No, He doesn't predestine people to hell. The scriptures clearly state that it is God's will that all repent and be saved. That being the case, he doesn't predestine people to hell. If he did, he would be actively working against what He himself wills. Calvinism is a vile doctrine.
Call it whatever you like and make any excuse you want, but if you are not one of God's elect, you are absolutely going to hell. And that was guaranteed before you were even born, and even if you die as a baby and never sinned. Live with it, and you better thank God for it.
God desires that everyone will be saved. But because of freewill, accepting the gift of salvation is up to the hearer of the gospel. To those who had not heard of the gospel, there is the great white throne judgement which one has to contend with based on God's justice, grace, and mercy through Christ.
You say "God desires everyone will be saved". If he desires it, it should be his will and plan. Is he unable to make a universe where everyone chooses him? Isn't that what heaven is? Why not just create heaven and skip the earth and hell? If everything goes according to God's plan (Ephesians1:11), then he chose to make a universe with a hell full of people (Matt 7:14). He is ultimately responsible. Was he unable to make a universe with free will where the people who would end up in hell would never be born? This is a being of unimaginable horror. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 KVJ I could never love a being who burns people forever. If there really is a loving god, maybe he/she is using Christianity to find out who the morally compromised people are who practice and defend it. This is not meant to be offensive. Just food for thought.
@@philipmunson3369 IMO, I believe the creation process is still on going, until all comes perfectly according to His plan, the New Heaven and the New Earth is the end and the beginning of it all. Comparing the Burning Furnace to the Lake of Fire, there is so much a big difference between this two. Furnace is an instrument to make a useful product to come out of it. As in the case of gold and silver you can come out of a pure and perfect one. In the case of the Lake of Fire, everything that will be thrown in it will be totally annihilated and destroyed. If accdg to Rev. 20 death and hades were destroyed when it was thrown in the Lake of Fire, so will all the dead that were judged in the GWTJ, that will the end of them, the end of their sufferiing in Hades, the place of the dead, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. For those who repented and call upon the Name of the Lord after they had served their punishment in Hades, will be saved according to the works they have done during their time on Earth and accdg to God'Grace and the Mercy Seat of Christ in the Ark of the Covenant present in the GWTJ which is also I believe is the Sheep and the Goat Judgement. The Sheep will be the Nations in the New Heaven and New Earth. The Saints and the Prophets will be the kings after they receive their crowns in the GWTJ. This is my understanding of how God's plan of Salvation for Mankind and His Creation will come into fruition and perfection. I am not a teacher, I am just a student of the Bible. I don't have much svriptures to back this up. The only principles that I am basing my understanding of this is about the Owner of the Vineyard, the Sheep and the Goat Judgement, the Ten Virgins, the Wedding Banquet, the Resurrection in the book of Corinthians. God bless us. Let the Holy Spirit be our Teacher.
@@roderickcruz5234 So you believe in annihilation. The Bible is pretty clear that hell is a place where the purpose of fire is for eternal torment. Read these verses: Matthew 25:46, Matthew 18:8, Mark 9:48, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Jude 7, Revelation 14:10-11, Revelation 20, 10-15, and please finish with Revelation 22:18-19. When Rev 20 says "death will be destroyed when ...thrown into the lake of fire" it seems to say death will no longer happen. Your interpretation seems to be just the opposite of the author's intent. Wouldn't a good god provide absolute clarity on such an important topic? Why the opposing interpretations? The real question is why take any of this serious? Consider for a moment what you would think if you thought critically about all of this as an outsider to your faith. Are your beliefs truly justified?
@@philipmunson3369 In the sheep and the goat judgement, which I believe is the GWTJ also, the only eternal that is described there id the fire, to serve as a memorial, as what gehenna was in jerusalem. The problem whith conflicting doctrines that were established by various denominations, is that they did not put the end in mind. The book of Revelation is the story about the end of everything and the start of eternity. This is where you will get the conclusion and validation or contradiction of all various preconceived views and beliefs. The study of the book of Revelation was not encouraged during the old times when doctrines were taking its final forms. Just like in a movie. You get the clear picture when you get to the end not in the middle.
I don't think you even read the verses. Matt 25:46 "They will go away into eternal punishment". Be careful about making the Bible say just what you want it to.
Then what's the point of sending missionary to other places or why preach gospel to non believers? if they are predestined to be born again they don't even need to hear gospel at all, they will be automatically be born again.
The means by which they are born again is through the Gospel. They have been predestined to hear the Gospel, and then have been predestined to be saved through the Gospel.
@@juilianbautista4067 if they are predestined to hear the gospel there is no need of praying and sending missionary... as they will hear the gospel anyway...there is no need of preaching? etc...if they are predestined to hear they will hear...
@@juilianbautista4067 Jesus said to Nicodemus that, "you must be born again..." Jesus din't say to Nicodemus, "dont worry Nicodemus you are predestined" or "you are not predestined so no matter what...you go to hell."
This gentleman would have a somewhat believable position on his topic from the Bible if he used all the scriptures pertaining to his doctrine found in the Bible. However, he does not, and his position crumbles when these omitted verses come into the picture to fill the gaps in his presentation.
Total depravity would mean that humans are completely deprived of goodness which is obviously false. Although people are sinners, most people have different levels of kindness , goodness, and love in their heart. It's all around you. If you can't see it then your religious beliefs have hijacked your brain.
@@2growdaily181 What is stopping people from being completely evil like the devil and his angels? Surely, you can't credit this to man. God's constant intervention in the minds and hearts of men is what keeps from them turning completely evil.
@@deadcell1 What stops people from being completely evil is their God given conscience and light that is within them. Some have more light than others. Human beings can be both good and evil. Even the potter needs something to work with. Otherwise, there is nothing to mold. If people are totally depraved (zero goodness) how do you explain the love and goodness that billions of people do toward and for one another , often with no reward. How are people held accountable for evil if they can't choose otherwise. The belief in Total Depravity is completely irrational and plainly clearly false. Even a child can see that.
@@2growdaily181 " ...is their God-given conscience and light that is within them. Some have more light than others." You just invertedly agreed with me and didn't even know it. The conscience people have, is given by God, any light or goodness that may be in people comes from God. How does it get there? The Lord interacts with His creation and places it there. People are not good on their own, if that's so then Satan will have the compacity to be good without God. With that said, every person has the option to choose salvation but without God's intervention they will always choose condemnation. Much like if I place 2 dishes before a tiger (one meat and the other vegetable) it has the option to choose the vegetables but because of its nature, it will always choose the meat.
@@deadcell1 Perhaps I may have misunderstood the meaning of Total Depravity. I understood that term to mean that people have no goodness in them. If you believe that people have some goodness in them, then we agree.
It is not CALVIN that said these words child... it was JESUS. When you PRETEND otherwise you are only showing the "fruit" of an unsaved "tare" in the church (sown by Satan) and not the "fruit" of a saved "wheat" in the church (sown by God) --------------- Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ------------------ Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. --------------- Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. --------------- Now tell me child.... WHICH one of those verses was written by Calvin? ----------------
@@2growdaily181 Child, I am so sorry to see you think that Christ failed (or even LIED). If you think the context of "ALL" (the word "men" was added, it is not in the original)... if "ALL" means everyone ever born then Hell will be empty - or Jesus LIED. -------- Since the CONTEXT of the verse is the whole BIBLE, we know Jesus does not lift ALL MEN... He only lifts ALL of "His Sheep". So you have two (2) choices child, you can preach that Jesus was a LIAR or you can understand the CONTEXT is ALL the Father gave Him to save. ---------- You embarrass yourself child... you tried to ADD the word "men" into the verse. What does the Bible say about ADDING to Scripture? Do you know the answer to that question? -----------
The concept of Predestination contradicts the reality of Free Will. We automatically assume that because God is all knowing, that He has already destined everything in our lives. No... All it means is that God is all knowing. God doesn't exist in time, it is a dimension that only created beings exist in. God dwells in Eternity. So God does not abide by the laws of Time neither does he abide by the laws of physics. If we as Humans could figure out God then I don't think he would be God. What we have to understand is that not only is God Omniscient (All knowing) but he is also Omnipresent ( Everywhere all at the same time). These are concepts we will never understand because we are created beings dwelling within the laws of a physical and material world. Due to God's omnipresence He is in every mili second and nano second of time from the beginning to the end, all at the same time. So we're in the year 2022 but God is also in the year 1975 at the same time. He's fully present in our past, future and our now. Whatever decisions we make now will already be known because he also is present in the future. Our lives are like a reel before him he sees every moment and every process as it happens and he sees the end result. In other words if right now I decide to go out to buy pizza God already knows I went out to buy pizza. If I decide not to go out and buy pizza God alreadys knows I didn't buy Pizza. He didn't predetermine my actions but because He is outside of time yet in it in all its fullness he sees every action and he sees every outcome like alternate realities or watching everything from multiple dimensions all at the same time. It doesn't make sense but it's not supposed to because we are created beings.
Accept our will isn’t apart from his power. If the bible is true he can not create a person who’s will is truly there own because it would be contradictory, according to the bible he could have created us differently so our will was predestined.
Hey Amber, God is working in your heart if you care about the Gospel. Do you believe in Jesus' final sacrifice for your sin? Confess it with your mouth and begin to follow Christ, turning from sin. Rest in the mystery. God is good. Contact me any time. Do not be afraid!
Salvation is gift from God and is to be obtained by just believing in the finished work of Jesus on the cross(Romans 10:8-10) Don't doubt just believe that you are saved (Luke 17:20-21;1John 5:10-13)
@JcsBee, Then hear the goodnews of the gospel: Your sins are fully paid for and Jesus has taken them away as if You have never sinned in your entire life. There is thus no sin You have which can out sin Gods grace...thats How much He loves You...it is this love that will break the chains of bondage that enslaves You. You dont need prayer, You need to understand what Jesus has done for You at the cross. God bless.
@@brendonburdett7015 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV bible.com/bible/59/heb.6.4-6.ESV
@@jes9157 Repent on the goodnews I shared with You. God is not looking for reasons to reject You.Hb 6:4 is about man hardening their hearts towards what God has done...the rejection is from mans side, not Gods side. The only sin is not to believe that Jesus has taken away your sin.
He gave us free will, he does not cause or predestine anyone to hell! Notice he cherry picks certain scriptures that he uses to support his horrid,extreme teaching, while ignoring the overwhelming number of scriptures that refute it. What kind of god would predestine millions of people to hell before they were even born! This is sick, and certainly untrue!
Johnmark Henry, I can't recall anything to memory anything in the Bible predestining anyone to Hell/Sheol. If some people were MEANT to go to Help anyway, despite the fact that God's grace was given as a gift to save any and every person who would receive Christ, then God's grace would be pointless. God's grace is not fallible, it does not select certain people only to get people to receive the gift of salvation. It is possible for ALL to receive the salvation of God through Jesus's death and resurrection. If it were not possible then that would put limits on God's grace. John Piper just made a big boo-boo on this question. Don't be afraid. God's grace is not limited, His love is not limited, His peace is not limited. He loves you and loved you from the beginning of time. Shame on any theologian trying to tackle this question not truly being prepared. Because of his presupposing, it could have a lot of people believing a lie. God is not limited, so His grace is not limited, so I'm pretty friggin sure it was meant for and is most definitely abundant enough for every person who has ever lived to receive its gift. That abundant and then some. Talk to the Lord, be honest to Him about your feelings and your questions. Don't hold anything in, God can take any question youve got. You have nothing to worry about. Just you wanting to do the right thing is a wonderful thing in God's eyes. He delights in our choice to make good decisions. And no, I don't believe your family is cursed. It is.just a matter of multiple people making the same decision to consume things that are bad for them. Spend some time reading about God's grace. Reading about His love. HE LOVES YOU, AND HIS LOVE IS LIMITLESS. much love to you!!
Really... you cannot remember the Biblical teaching of original sin? And how (because of Adam) all men are born spiritually DEAD and destined to hell. -------- You must not have read MUCH of the Bible. -----
John 3:16,2 peter 3:9, and Many more verses refute this teaching of Calvinism. Jesus Christ died for all of us and Calvinism destroys Christianity let me give you an example a Calvinist goes to preach the gospel and he's saying jesus loves you come to him! But after he's done he thinks why he did that because he may give false assurance to the non elect and he stops preaching the gospel. Another example of how Calvinism destroys Christianity: A man in a Calvinist church the preacher talks about predestination and limited atonement and the man leaves thinking what if I'm not elected and he becomes depressed and worried and after some time leaves Christianity. That's how Calvinism leads people astray.
1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12). John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception. 2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell. 3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ. 4. John Piper is inadvertently doing Satan's work for him. He's deceived, and he's deceiving others.
@@Gablesman888 It's not a false accusation if it's true. Calvinism is 100% unbiblical, and it turns God into the bad guy who ordains people to sin, and Jesus into the bad news because most were never picked by God to be saved. All of Calvinism is antichristian, and presents a false gospel that cannot save.
@@jedimasterham2 Again, can you elaborate rather than falsely accuse? Use scripture to prove your assertions, not blah blah. I am also challenging you to properly apply the 1 Cor 3:12 verse which you eisegeted. You really cannot do this since the A/P approach to the Bible does not appear in the Bible at all. You just showed us a taste of that by misapplying the Corinthians verse. That's about all you got Bub. On the other hand, the Reformed view of things is on practically every page of the Bible. Try again if you like. Your time would be better spent on this Thanksgiving Day Eve by having another glass of wine. Have a great holiday.
@@Gablesman888 Calvinism if a false gospel. Why? Because the following: 1. Calvinism makes salvation exclusive, but Scripture makes it clear salvation is inclusive to whoever believes. There's over 150 verses reiterating this. 2. Calvinism says God picks sinners for heaven, and picks sinners for hell. However scripture says God loves everyone, is impartial, and wants all people to be saved and come to knowledge of the truth. 3. Calvinism says no one can come to believe in Jesus (unless God forces them to believe), but scripture instructs us we must do this to be saved. 4. Calvinism believes true salvation is any sinner whom God picks to be saved before creation. However, this is salvation outside of Christ. 5. Calvinism says people must persevere in works as evidence of salvation. Scripture says we should, but even those carnal believers are still saved, though will burn up works and lose reward. 6. Calvinism makes God responsible for sin and people going to hell, not humans. It also turns Jesus into the bad news, because claim people can't come to believe in Jesus without God forcing them. In every way possible, Calvinism is not only a false gospel, but is downright antichristian. Arminianism is no better.
I think often times this debate continues because of semantics. For instance... pre destination doesn’t actually mean that God forcibly sends someone to hell right??? It simply means that he knows who will accept and reject him and based off of that “knowledge” he predestines to heaven/hell. But everyone still has a choice.
1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12). John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception. 2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell. 3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ. 4. John Piper is inadvertently doing Satan's work for him. He's deceived, and he's deceiving others.
@@jedimasterham2 Not sure 1 Cor 3:12 says what you thought it did? But I don’t think John was being deceptive, rather he’s just using scripture to justify his answer. This topic has to be handled delicately and words have to be articulated correctly because this is a big topic, one which quite frankly turns many away from God because people don’t know what they’re talking about. John didn’t say that not everyone can be saved, I agree with you that they can. What he said was that the ones who have been “pre-destined” to hell have rejected God in their hearts knowingly and willingly but the choice for salvation was always there.
@@joshuajackson7691 The answer is simple. God does not predestine anyone to hell. It’s also important to clarify that Predestination is not pre-determination. Predestination is simply a reserve a destination from point A to point B. When we are saved through faith, we become predestined to heaven, and service to God.
If you really think about it, yeah, some are predestined to hell. Cause free will isn't compatible with omniscience. If God's knowledge is perfect then no matter what we do, fate is already decided. And how can anyone reconcile the idea of a God that creates people knowing full well that there's no hope for them with the idea that such a God is benevolent? Where is the love when God creates a person just for them to suffer for all eternity in Hell? How can God love you when he brings you to life so you can be tormented forever?
1 Timothy 2:1-6 "I (Paul) therefore exhort that FIRST OF ALL, SUPPLICATIONS, PRAYERS, INTERSESSIONS, and GIVING OF THANKS, BE MADE FOR ALL MEN, for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quite and peaceable life in all Godliness and honesty. FOR THIS IS GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD OUR SAVIOUR; WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, AND TO COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. FOR THERE IS ONE GOD, AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS (WHO IS GOD), WHO GAVE HIMSELF A RANSOM FOR ALL, to be testified in due time." Deuteronomy 30:19-20 "I (GOD) call Heaven and Earth to record this day against you, that I (GOD) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore (you) choose life, that both you and your seed may live: that you may love the LORD your GOD, and that you may obey His voice, and that you may cleave unto Him: for He is your life, and the length of your days..." John 3:16-18 "For GOD so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son (WHO IS GOD), that whosoever believes in Him (The Son) should not perish, but have everlasting life. FOR GOD SENT NOT HIS SON INTO THE WORLD TO CONDEMN THE WORLD; BUT THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED. HE THAT BELIEVES ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED: BUT HE THAT BELIEVES NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD." The last verse Pastor John read is the answer to which Paul gave to this question brought forth... Notice how Paul did not give a direct/straight answer to this question, but he said "What if". I believe that Paul knew by the Holy Ghost that this answer would split and divide the Church: when the Church is meant to be a unified entity - Just as THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE ONE: which was the prayer of Jesus Christ The Righteous, that the Church may be one. If Paul did not give a direct answer, then I believe that we should answer this question the same way Paul did... because the scriptures I have quoted suggest that even though God is Sovereign, He let's us make the choice of eternal salvation for ourselves and this is His will... Even as the scriptures that Pastor John quoted suggest that God makes the choice of eternal salvation for every man as His will is predestined... This is clearly a mystery! For bear in mind that "we know in part" and that "God's ways are far beyond our ways, and His thoughts are far beyond our thoughts: EVEN AS THE EAST IS FROM THE WEST, SO FAR ARE HIS THOUGHTS AND WAYS BEYOND OUR THOUGHTS AND WAYS. But we should find comfort in GOD's great mercy and grace towards us, for His love for us compelled Him to give Himself for us!
Ephesians 1:4 God chose us in Christ to be holy and blameless in God’s presence before the creation of the world. 5 God destined us to be his adopted children through Jesus Christ because of his love. This was according to his goodwill and plan... This verse does not use, "what if." There is nothing mysterious about it either. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, He knows who is going to Hell because He chooses them to as He chooses who goes to Heaven.
+Child Boo what do you say about 1 Timothy 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, whose will is for all men to be saved and come to the knowledge if the truth."?
I say that it's a direct contradiction to the Verse that I presented to you. Strange that Scripture, though inspired by an omniscient and omnipotent would make two separate claims that directly contradict each other. One says that God (without "what ifs") chose His believers since before the creation of the world so it can be assumed He also chose who'd be unbelievers. The other says that it's God's will if for all men to be saved. Those two statements, whether you like it or not directly contradict each other. Also, if it's truly God's will for all men to be saved and He's omniscient and omnipotent, which I assume you believe Him to be, should this not be? If it's truly His will, He has the power to do it yet chooses not to. Your god is an awful, evil, egotistical, none to low self esteem being who demands constant worship.
+Child Boo God chose to let men decide for themselves what they want, He is just, and if He chose for us...then His Justice does not stand. I mean its pretty clear that you want nothing to do with God, so just how unjust would it be for God to force you to love Him, and to worship Him and to spend eternity with Him. instead He gave you a choice, either you want Him or you don't... and He has prepared two places of eternity for both those who want Him and for those who don't. Heaven is prepared for everyone who wants everything to do with God and all that God freely gives, for in Heaven God's Sovereign Will is done. Hell is prepared for those who want nothing to do with God, which is the reason God withdrew Himself from Hell, and He withdrew all the good things which He freely offers as well... some of those things include life, love, peace, joy, food, water, light and health... and these are left in their place death, hate, war, sorrow, hunger, thirst, darkness and pain and suffering. You choose
Dee Tee - *God chose to let men decide for themselves what they want, He is just, and if He chose for us...then His Justice does not stand.* You are contradicting the word of an omniscient and omnipotent being. I guess that His justice does not stand then. *I mean its pretty clear that you want nothing to do with God* Your particular choice of god is among the most horrible of them all. To create billions of humans knowing that they will not believe in Him, most through no fault of their own, to send to hell is a pretty horrible thing to do, don't you think? *so just how unjust would it be for God to force you to love Him, and to worship Him and to spend eternity with Him.* If it's His will, as you stated, He could just have done this. No one would be being forced. It would just be the way things were made by Him from the beginning. *instead He gave you a choice, either you want Him or you don't* No He didn't. He chose and made you and other believers to be believers since before creating Earth. Lucky you and other believers (though Heaven doesn't seem really great to me). Like me, you have no choice. *and He has prepared two places of eternity for both those who want Him and for those who don't.* Right. He has two places. One for the people He creates to believe in Him and the other for those that don't. Christian theology in this sense is quite abhorrent: The Christian God is a monster, imposing its hellish will upon human beings who have no choice but to suffer for eternity. Good thing that your god is as non existent as the thousands of gods that you happen to not believe in.
Child... all men sin. All sin is punished with eternal torment. God had mercy on SOME. That is His right. You complain that God did not have mercy on ALL. That is just hilarious. ------------
@@wisevirgin3405 yes... But some of us aren't born into fortunate circumstances like a proper church to keep us stable in our relationship with GOD...... stop being so judgemental.... You act like you know whos gonna make it and whos not....... Your being offensive..... It comes off as pride...... I also think we can choose..... Our own path.....
@@JJ_Jordan0 ... child, the Bible CLEARLY tells us WHO are the saved (wise virgins) and WHO are the unsaved (foolish virgins) at the "time of the end". And this is PART of the Gospel... it is the BIBLE that is "judgmental" (not me) Sorry if the Scriptures "offend" you... maybe you should find a "save zone" -------
You mean, God made them deserve condemnation and they sin as predestined without choice. how do they deserve such condemnation? This is pure blasphemy!
@From the Futon oh geeze. Ringing the antichrist bell so soon, are we? My issue with his statement was that he said "God made them deserve condemnation..." which is neither biblical nor reformed. I have a few questions for whichever of you wants to answer, and I ask this not to stir up contention but because I think we should desire to seek truth. In the Old Testament, are non-Israelites (specifically those outside of the influence of the nation of Israel themselves) predestined without choice to eternity apart from God (hell)? Do they deserve such condemnation? Was Esau predestined without choice to eternity apart from God (hell)? Does he deserve such condemnation? The question we should be asking ourself, friend, is why *any of us at all* are saved, not why some are saved and not others. NONE are worthy. NONE seek after God. We don't seek God and we don't even want to. Only by being born again, which is a work by the Spirit of God (not by man), can we be reconciled to God. It is a work by God, not by men. Interestingly, you mention that he spent 8 minutes "convuluting in order to obscure it." Nope, he spent the majority of those 8 minutes quoting Scripture. That's as clear and unmuddied an answer as it gets.
@From the Futon it wasn't disingenuous. I'm sorry that you interpreted it as such.. I don't mean to come acrossed as harsh or unloving. I have absolutely zero ill-will toward you. I suppose I get defensive when it comes to John Piper because he is the primary means by which God saved me. That is, of course, no excuse to act unloving toward a brother. I really do want answers, though. I think these are important questions. Of course, you are by no means obligated to answer them. I'm just posing them because I think they run parallel to the verses John read.
@From the Futon To be fair, you said, "those with brains and ears can distill it into its essence," essentially implying that I have neither a brain nor ears. You then implied that Piper was the antichrist. Those are both greatly provocative, and yet you claim that *I* am the one that doesn't want answers.
@From the Futon Why is that statement such an issue for you if you disbelieve that what Piper says is true in the first place? Regardless... Let me give an anecdotal example of why Piper saying that is valuable. Think of it what you wish. I am young and am a very recent convert to Christ. I have a friend that came to faith at around the same time I did. I had no problem believing in the doctrines of grace, as they were what finally opened my eyes to the Gospel in the first place, that my salvation was truly a work of God and not of my own flesh. They were (and are) so sweet and beautiful to me. I tried discussing them with my friend, and she neither understood nor saw them as sweet, so I dropped the conversation. A couple months later, after reading through much of the new testament, we had another, similar, conversation on the doctrines of grace, and after I finished explaining them to her, she nodded her head and essentially responded with, "yeah, what's controversial about that? That sounds like the Gospel to me." The point is, timing and proper discernment is important. Most believers, after reading more of the Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to shape and mold their hearts, see the doctrine in the Word and respond to it as sweet. The Holy Spirit begins to tear away our previous philosophical suppositions, and we begin to love the truths we encounter in the Word of God. Piper is advocating against believing it, even if it is true, if it undermines what the person believes about God and His goodness. I believe he is saying this because he assumes one of two things: 1. They will grow up into the doctrine/come to know it on their own (as happened with my friend). 2. He doesn't want it to cause weaker-hearted believers to doubt God or walk away from Him as a result of something relatively small/unrelated to the central, core Gospel message.
@@itsebudesu Salvation is like 2 sides of a coin, the first side is to accept Lord Jesus Christ as your savior in your heart, Jesus sacrificed Himself at the cross for your sins and the other side of the coin is to repent on all your sins. Don't be like those christians who accepted Jesus Christ as their savior but still live in sins.
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! - JESUS
3:20 The only nonessential part is Monergism. Although it sounds pious, it denies so much of the Bible that it becomes obvious that it is the element that doesnt fit.
You are revealing the source of this predestination-to-hell doctrine, el verdugo. People who are satisfied to be on the side of the devil, and want to lie about the nature of God, love this doctrine. Before "Saint" Augustine, nobody in Christianity taught this, but the Manichaean Gnostics (of whom Augustine was a member for 9 years, _just before_ he "became a Christian" to be a privileged leader in the newly-adopted, official religion of the Roman empire) did teach it. The Bible says that God would have all men be saved. The Calvinists and the modern-day Gnostics fight the truth of God's saving love towards all people: why? Just anything to tell sinners that it is likely that God doesnt want them saved, when the Bible says just the opposite. Gnostics and Calvinists use the same arguments against God's love, and atheists use them to say that's what our God would be like, if He existed! This is not a coincidence.
We have to believe and then God saves us=Synergism. You are right Monergism is not taught in the bible. Sirs what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus -Acts 16:30-31.
The issue I have with this is that it can be boiled down to some sort of a divine lottery. We all buy a ticket but only a few will win. If then others would contest that "Well actually, you can't even buy the ticket unless God first gives you the money..." Then I would liken it to a room full of starving blind people. Acting as God, I would place food in front of the ones I chose even though they are all the same. Now I can say, "look how generous I am." The others die due to their starvation. I didn't force them to die, but since they could not see the food, they died anyways. If man is totally unable to respond to God without Him first regenerating the man, then man is like a lifeless puppet on a conveyor belt to the furnace. Unless God pulls the strings the puppet cannot respond. Then when the puppet has his strings pulled by the "irresistible grace" he will respond and be saved from the furnace. But how does this glorify the goodness of God? The reformist seems to appeal to the mystery that is God. He gets the credit for saving and being just by punishing the other lifeless puppets who failed to respond, but only because He did not pull their strings. Keeping with this view, why not simply have those that are created perfect and created fallen, short-cut the death of Christ. Christ even said that God could create descendants of Abraham from stones. If He did, He would have made new "Adams" free from sin, since sin is passed from fathers unto their children. Then He would have a literal line of people predestined to eternal life who would freely choose to serve Him. Another point is if man is elected to salvation unconditionally and the grace of God is irresistible then how did Adam come to sin? Adam was free already from sin with the knowledge and direct experience of God. We as Christians now know that we are not perfect and that our sanctification is a life-long process. We strive to sin less, but we won't ever become sin-less until we have new bodies. Adam was without sin until the fall. He was without corruption, made perfect in the image of God. He still sinned in the end. Does God need to send many to Hell to show His contrasting goodness by saving a few? Instead I think that another view could be possible. Some are elect and some are brought in. The elect were chosen by God unconditionally but to others they were chosen as they chose Him. I know the objection is that then it's not by grace alone, but I would say that by God's foreknowledge, He knew those who would respond appropriately not only those that He had to override their sin nature. Paul writes in Hebrews 6:4-6 states, “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance..." If it were impossible for an elect to fall away then why say this at all, unless some who are saved are not elect.
The response any good Calvinist would give is either "the elect can't fall away" or perhaps "the elect will not fall away, those who do are not elect". Anyhow, I don't think that passage is talking about salvation at all. I think it is talking about unsaved people who have rejected the gospel after seeing all of that stuff. Ay any rate I don't think it's an obstacle to OSASz from either a Calvinist or non-Calvinist perspective.
1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12). John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception. 2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell. 3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ.
They were predestined for hell because God already knew what their choices would be. Just because God knows what their choices would be does not mean they did not have a choice to do right and be saved. I sometimes already know what choice my family is going to make on certain matters but that doesn't mean I caused them to do that action. Every man is accountable for his own choices. God knowing those choices ahead of time does not make God unjust.
This comment doesn't address the main issue, which is why creating such person on the first place. That is the root problem regardless of his/her actions. In other words to be more clear, why God would create someone who He knows it is going to perish in hell in the first place?
I too though of this question. It reminded me of the RC's double predestination take, but by God's Grace I got to a different response. The scripture say that we were bought. So I asked we were bought from where? Well I think we all know that answer. So does God predestine us to hell, I would respond no, you see we are already judged and condemned. But God bought us out from the eternal darkness to eternal light. To me to think that somehow now I am in the middle of choice, it's not biblical - the bible states that we are either with Christ or against Christ, there is not middle ground. The Grace of God is because he saves some, of course He does not have to save anyone, none of us are Holy or Righteous like He is.
The bible is spiritually discerned according t itself. The problem is theologians and people who take it literal. The English bible is mistranslated. The idea of a burning hell is pagan. What Yeshua taught about those who choose to not be made spiritually alive was sort term accountablility, remorse over ones actions, sorrow over the bad choices we made, followed by extinction. The word koloisis he used used o mean extinction not torture. Christianity adopted Greco pagan ideas. I have met the holy spirit and witnessed miracles and prophecies come to pass. We need to seek the divine for truth. People misunderstand so much about the bible.
@@brokengirl8619 Sorry to say but the Bible does not speak to an idea of hell, but a literal hell. As the Bible states God Created Hell for the fallen angels, but since we all have sinned we too will have the same destination. Hell is spoken in the OT as well is the septuligent is that one corrupted as well? The problem is that you can't deal with who GOD is. He is a Holy God and none of us are, if it was not for Christ no one would be in heaven. You do like everybody else deny the really to hell because you don't like it. I don't like it either but God is holy and I love that more then a corrupt God. Don't you love a God that is Holy and a God that will judge the wicket? I know is easy to say the English Bible is corrupted but I ask you how do you know what Bible I read , do you think I only know one language. You see your assumption lead no where, but read the bible there are no errors in it.
I want to ask a question. In the last sentence (in 7:05) John Piper said: “The redeemed will know we are saved utterly by grace while deserving hell and the rest will know that they suppressed much knowledge of God’s grace and they deserve to perish.” So did the ones who “suppressed much knowledge of God’s grace” choose to supress it or that God determines that they suppress it? And if God is the one who suppressed it, isn’t it also true that the real mastermind behind every person not believing in God and living in sin is ..... God himself (?) Wouldn’t that make God the author of sin? And you know, in a webpage by Desiring God that Mr.Piper had written for in the past there is an explanation for my question written by Mr.Mathis (which is actually to clarify Mr. Piper’s statements) which i am really not comfortable about that says: “God does bring sins about, but always for his own good purposes. So in bringing sin to pass he does not himself commit sin. If that argument is sound, then a Reformed doctrine of the sovereignty of God does not imply that God is the author of sin.” Source: www.desiringgod.org/articles/does-god-author-sin How can one brings about sin and not sin himself i wonder? I’m sorry to say this but I honestly sees this as a blatant contradiction in God’s behalf if this were true, and if God can do sin in order to do good, then why can’t i? I wonder if it would be wrong if i were to do it since God is doing it himself, like stealing money from my neighbour to feed poor people for example? And if so what difference would it be between what i did and what Saul did in 1 Samuel 13 (morally speaking since we both did a sin in order to do good in the end as Saul really just wants Israel to beat Philistine which is what God also wants), but it says there that God is not pleased by it so clearly that act is not good in God’s eye and surely He is not a hypocrite (which said to someone not to do something but do it himself) since Christ said in Matthew 7 verse 5: “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye” PS: To whoever reading this. This is not meant to offend anyone in any way. I respect anyone who preaches the Gospel and i certainly have massive respect for Mr.Piper for preaching to the lost. But still, i saw something that i just can’t agree on. God bless you.
I cant agree on it either, not only does it try to say no one has free will, but it makes God sound like a kid on an ant hill with a magnifying glass. I know I cannot wrap my finite mind around the way God works, but the idea that the father is the author of sin just sounds way off and blasphemous. If the father is love, then how does that show love, making someone sin and creating them for hell just to show how magnificent he is.. it paints the father in a VERY bad light and we all know the Father is just, holy, and good, and love, not what piper paints the father to be.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned- 13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. Romans 5 So we know that sin came from Adam which is consequence of free will God is all powerfull so he must have allowed that to happen otherwise there is no free will. God is in infinite dimention. We know this because GOd created time space and matter So he see and knows everything that every person will ever do on earth. So my question is does God need to wait for something to happen on earth in time or because he already sees the outcome he can make the judgment to include a persons name to the tree of life or not ? I think its the latter So when we say its predestined i agree but on the basis of a person free will The predestination we do not know this because we are bound by time but God is not so he can make that call and we have to trust him on that Today many people are presented with the Gospel and they still choose to disbelieve Its on them not on God
After learning about predestination, I kept getting a fear of not actually being saved even though I proclaimed Jesus as my savior I don't know why. I need prayer as I have never questioned my salvation before, but now I'm for some reason like I might say that I'm saved but might not be the cause of my predestination. I don't know if it makes sense but that is how I feel.
What I learned so far as a young christian is that if one is truly saved, it's not that sin isn't gone forever. No, no, no, true christians sin still, but if they are really saved, they start actively hating sin with all its being and feel at least some sort of discomfort when they sin again/realize they've sinned again. Like, if you've lashed out at someone, you know you're saved when you tell them that you're sorry and really feel the weight of what you did. Other times tho, repentance of a sin isn't perfect, so you may feel justified in lashing out in your heart, but you'd know that what you did was wrong in your head. Paul Washer says that just like your faith, your ability to repent truly grows too. So don't be discouraged for the times when you don't feel the right feelings :) I myself struggle with discouragement, but with Jesus, we can do it! He'll be with us all the way.
To come to Piper's viewpoint on this topic, one must approach each of these passages with unvalidated presuppositions. I grieve for those that follow him, for they are ignorant of God's love and grace for all mankind! Piper is no dummy, but he does not understand the God of the bible and i fear, is causing many to be repulsed by Him!
"Don't belive it even if it's true."? Man if you have to make statements like this to justify your beliefs to others then I REALLY have to question whether or not YOU actually belive it.
William Lincoln I understand what he’s trying to say. He’s not saying don’t believe the truth he’s simply saying that if you’re gonna believe something make sure it’s biblical
We have to admit the reality that not everyone has the privilege of holding two truths at the same time, because of how limited our cognitive ability is compared to God's. Some people cannot have peace with both 'God predestined some to hell' and 'God is just' hence pastor John tells us we should sacrifice the first truth if we cannot reconcile both of them in our hearts.
@@williamnathanael412 We should not sacrifice any truth at all, for all truth is a reflection of our God and all Scripture has a purpose. I believe it would be better for God to subdue our hearts and understandings as well as enlighten our minds to believe all His word teaches with a childlike faith (but mature understanding).
,.**-This is a really bad apologetics video, it doesn't answer why God creates people that God knows will reject him. Is he forced to create all humans even the ones that go to hell. if not why not create only those who go to heaven? Free will is not a solution because in heaven we will have free will and there will be no sin please help.
@@fernandounda3681 Here’s some things to consider: God is a Father. And He loves all His children..even those who will ultimately reject Him. Even earthly parents who’s children no longer speak to them, whatever the reason may be, don’t regret their children being born. They may be grieved or hurt but typically they wouldn’t wish their children didn’t exist. They delighted in their children.. even if they only got to enjoy them for a short time. God isn’t “forced” to do anything. He created every person because He delights in them. Second, just because someone will ultimately reject Christ doesn’t mean they can’t still be used by God for His purposes. God can use someone who rejected Him to reach others who _will_ ultimately accept Christ: like a young man seeing his friend or brother go to jail may decide he doesn’t want that kind of life and instead chooses to give his life to God. Free will is the *only* solution. If we didn’t have free will, we’d be robots. God doesn’t _want_ robots; He wants a family; People who will love Him of their own free will. No one wants to be forced into a relationship.. that’s not true love. Keep asking Him questions and keep seeking Him :)
The only thing you can do is hope you’re in the elect. Otherwise you are screwed. Note that large portions of Christianity don’t see eye to eye on this doctrine.
A true Christian is scared to death by hell for anyone.
Right now im so scared that i want to cry :(
I’m literally crying, I Love God but I feel so bad for those who are not meat to receive his Glory. I don’t deserve anything more than anyone in this Earth.
It hurts to say that I am grateful for God salvation.
Let not you hearts be troubled. I used to feel the same. I was scared for people (family) that they might go to hell. What I found is God loves all of us (Humanity), died for us to show us that he loves us and he will not let us be lost sheep forever. All will be saved (as a matter of destiny). He came to save the world 🌎. God has put me at ease, I am free from that evil doctrine of hell.
Peace my brethren.
@@texantony2410 are you saying you dont believe in a hell?
@@texantony2410 how did you come to that conclusion ?
People. Some things just are not meant for us to understand. Our little brains cannot measure up to God’s thought process. That’s why we just pray that HIS will be done. If you read this comment and you’re lost, just please, Surrender your life to Christ. He is calling you out of death and to a life of eternity spent with Him. Life is too short to “have fun” and to keep sinning and fall straight into hell. Love God, Trust God and His Word, with all your heart; and You, will live. His will be done. Amen.
Rocket Koala....we are meant to understand god makes people to destroy them......he is god...
Our brains and hearts can know some things about God, and we know them by His word. May you find the biblical freedom to reject that which denies what kind of God He is, according to His word, and freedom from false teaching about His word.
KT, I wasnt deliberately not responding.....anyway.... ..its our fault or Esaus fault simply becasue God said it was......we are created beings.. ..n you are right about church membership plummeting.. ..no one wants God..
I believe GOD saves people for himself,and the others are left to their own devices.some will be saved most won’t.its their choice.if you are predetermined to be saved,you are part of a royal priesthood.
The ones that won’t be saved make their own choices in life.it’s just a theory.
JER.17,9.”THE HEART OF MAN IS DESPERATELY WICKED AND DECEITFUL ABOVE ALL THINGS”
..psst rocket man......one doesnt surrender their life to jesus to be saved.. ..one believes on Jesus to be saved.. ..n it's not difficult to wrap ones mind around the fact that Jesus created all things for himself and all things are ordained and planned by the king even who gets saved and who doesn't.. ..jesus is god and does what he wants.. ..people may find it hard to accept but it is easy to understand.. ..n john piper is a wolf.. ..jsyk..
I am a christian and I believe in Jesus Christ and that he died to save me from my sins.
Welcome to the family!
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
It all boils down to the scripture that says the Lord knows those who are his and everyone who turns to the Lord MUST depart from iniquity.
All men are evil by nature but from them we get two kinds of responses when they hear the word of truth:
1. Some will flee to take hold of the hope held out in the gospel and be saved.
2. Some, because of the love for sin and the benefits they derive from it, will reject the truth and be condemned.
Before time begun God foreknew everyone's decisions and predestined them accordingly. Those who would harden their hearts he predestined them for ignoble purposes and destruction like Judas Iscariot and Pharaoh. Those who would yield to the call of God he prepared them in advance for noble purposes and glory.
The goodness of God brings us to repentance. We should love and serve God not because of punishment but because we love Him for the unfathomable extremes that He gone through for us. God is Pure Love and all His judgments are perfect and pure and true and just. Work with God because you love Him not out of fear.
Child, all (real) repentance is the RESULT (not the cause) of regeneration.
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Wise Virgin you
missed the whole point of what I was saying
@@noahguillen2201 .... no child, I understood what you were saying.
Did you understand what I said? I think not.
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Wise Virgin I’m not your child I’m God’s child and read Romans chapter 2 verse 4.
@@noahguillen2201 .... I never said you were MY child, just A child.
And WHO do you think the "thee" represents in Romans 2:4 ?
I assume you have a POINT to make?
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As in your original post.... who do you imagine "us" represents?
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Tell me child, WHO loves God?
The elect or the reprobate?
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2Peter 3:9 says that God does not will that anyone should perish. That means the will of God is that all be saved. That shows that He never pre-destined anyone to hell. But choices are made by people to receive Jesus or not. A person's wrong choice not only affects him but also generation after generation after him. But then again anyone who is saved is by grace. Everyone who has heard the Gospels has heard the will of God for him/her. The choice is up to them to receive it or reject it.
Basically, while man does have a free will, it is not free because of original sin. Think of a computer lacking important apps in order to function. Man lacks the app to do good works that are righteous in God's sight. For salvation to occur, God must step in and monergistically change the "want to" in the doomed sinner, installing (imputing) righteousness and giving the formerly lost sinner new desires, and a new want to. In effect, saving that person.
Lost and saved man both have a free will to do many things: conduct bypass surgery, hit a triple, have sex, hold up a bank. God "decrees" such activity in that he does not appear to interfere with the conduct, even when sinful. But the important word is not decree, but "ordain". The easy definition of ordain is to "use it".
There are no maverick molecules in God's universe. Otherwise, God would not be in control. Two big examples of this truth appear in the Bible (and many others), one in the OT, the other in the NT. The first is in Genesis 50 where Joseph tells his brothers that their selling him into slavery was meant for evil, but God meant it for good. The second is in the NT where God uses the actions of Judas and others to kill Jesus, yet look at the eternal good established in those acts.
Finally, there are many more Bible passages that support everything said here (you can look them up), but I would also direct you to Chapter 3 of the Westminster Confession. The WCF is not the Bible but a restatement of BIble truths like a really great sermon, though better.
God bless you in your studies.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
Here's who God will have mercy on:
" *God* has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all." (Romans 11:32, ESV).
"The creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of *him* who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:19-21, ESV).
As you can see, in both passages, God appears to take responsibility for man's sin, and hints at a glorious future for all mankind.
Thus says The Lord: By My prophets have I made My plans known. Yet that which I am about to do is done already, and shall be. And that which I have spoken from the beginning, even to this day, is true. For the will of God can not be broken, even as The Scriptures. And if My every word is Scripture, then how shall even one word fail?
Yet My people fall away, and My little flock grows smaller still. For they seek to loosen these bonds in an attempt to flee this bundle. For the Way of The Lord is not known among them, and My words have ceased from being a blessing. And so they flee back into the world in an attempt to escape, as in all times past, for they have no root.
Yet I tell you the truth, none shall escape their bundle. For all bundles lie in the field already, each one tied securely and set in its place. Therefore as one attempts to flee this bundle, the truth of the matter is made plain. For they have not departed at all, but remain in the bundle in which I had placed them at the first. I AM THE LORD.
Beloved ones, I search the hearts and minds, even the innermost thoughts I know; even from the foundation of the world did I know each one of you, setting you in your place from the beginning. Yet some will say, “What of free will and our right to choose?” To these I say: You have chosen, and the will of your heart has spoken, and thus were you bundled and prepared. For I know My own.
Thus the Bride is chosen;
My blood runs through her veins,
My image is shown upon her face...
Behold, the light of My coming is reflected
In her eyes, for I have captured her gaze,
And she will by no means look away
Or seek after another...
Therefore some are plucked from
The world already, and shall also be taken;
They shall surely be gone from this place!...
Says The Lord.
Source: trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=The_Harvest_Is_Separated%2C_All_Bundles_Set_in_Their_Places
Why would a regenerated believer choose to have children? You are choosing to bring someone into the world with the knowledge that God may have chosen them in eternity past for hell?
Jacob and Esau were reconciled. Esau was never damned.
John Kronz that’s a good point
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
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Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it , “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Romans 9:18-21
@@RealGeorgeyWashington keep reading to chapter 11. Paul ultimately refutes the whole “vessels of wrath” proposition.
@@johnkronz7562 Paul never refutes it in the since of the elect. There's a reason why the word elect is used over and over even by our lord Jesus christ. God is sovereign over all.
The Lord has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Proverbs 16:4
this is a scary thought, and i can neither agree nor disagree because i don't know. God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts and even Revelation 13:8 says:
"and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain."
whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world.. it means God knows who are those whose name is not written even before the foundation of the world 😣 it's a scary thought and we could only trust Jesus Christ to save us.
Whatever God does is good and right by definition. He is the maker of Heaven and Earth and men. God can judge men but not the other way. Men do not know enough or smart enough to know God's plan or logic. God is always right, by definition.
God’s word is clear: he passes over most and saves the elect for his glory.
Is bearing good fruit (attending church, tithing, praying) all just a waste of time then? If you're predestined to hell, why bother? How about witnessing as Christ instructed? Why bother to witness to doomed souls? Why are we even here at all if what do or don't do doesn't matter?
- Anyone in hell deserves to be there and will be held accountable for their choices.
- Modern society struggles to accept a God with vast authority, complexity, and power.
- Bible verses are presented as evidence of God's role in predestination, including Ephesians 1:11, Proverbs 16:4, 1 Peter 2:7-8, Jude 4, 2 Peter 2:3, Romans 9:11, and Romans 9:22.
- God determines who will be saved and lost, but the process is mysterious and just, with the redeemed acknowledging grace and the lost acknowledging their suppression of knowledge.
Calvinism wants to assert that God arbitrarily predestines some few to Heaven and the majority to hell. BUT the Bible clearly teaches God's predestination is based on His FOREKNOWLEDGE.
Calvinism makes the most sense for me. I believe that those who truly have the Spirit of God in them will understand the deep and hidden things of God, and understand the true character of God. God has predestined two groups of people.. The Sheep and the Goats. God has chosen to set his unfathomable love on the sheep, and his wrath and judgment on the goats. We can't ask or answer back to God why he has done it like this. He is the potter we are the clay. But we know one thing for sure that everything happens for God's glory and to the praise of His glorious name.
People hate calvinism or the doctrines of grace, because they don't understand the condition of this world. People believe that there is some good in everybody.. but this is not the case. Everyone is a vile sinner that has disobeyed and spat in the face of God. No one deserves salvation.
Regeneration by the spirit takes place in the elect person at some point in their lives. These people that have the Holy Spirit are chosen before the foundation of the world. God cares for these people, they never leave his sight. But as for the reprobate God will send panic and dread upon them. They will feel God's wrath and fury in this life.. and the next..
Everything comes back to God. It's all about him. It's all about Jesus. Being chosen is the best thing that can happen to someone. The elect will know that they have God on their side. The non-elect cannot hear the voice of God nor will they want to in their fallen state. They are the enemies of God predestined for eternal torment. If you have God's Spirit in you then the Bible will come to life! The Psalms are awesome because it talks about the hope of the righteous and the downfall of the wicked. If you know truly that you are saved and reading this then I look forward to seeing you in heaven :) Things might be tough now but don't worry the Lord will always watch over you. You are being regenerated by the Spirit each day for a greater hope.
Thank you God for choosing me. A vile sinner. Never caring or wanting God in the first place. But by his Spirit I have been made new. Not by my own doing. But by his power and his power alone. I didn't choose God nor have the will to do so. He chose me and... yes FORCED me into his Kingdom. But I couldn't be happier :)
This topic is 1 that people shouldn't believe if it will undermine their love for God. In time, through bible reading, they may come to see it on their own as true & then revel in the goodness of God & His love for them!
Calvanist "People are responsible and accountable for thier own sin, so they deserve eternal seperation".
So Does God ordain everything?
Calvanist " Yes of course he does every single thing he has ordained he is sovereign, so Pope Auguestine and Pope John Calvin taught us loyal subjects".
OK, so God ordained people to sin and all thier sins and they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do'
Calvanist " God's in control who are we to question God, if he wants to create people and ordain them to sin and then for his glory punish them for eternity for his glory that's his business ".
OK, so why can't people respond in faith as you say why are they blind ?.
Calvanist They can't open thier eyes unless God opens them.
So God made them blind told them to repent knowing they can't open thier eyes. Then he punishes them for being blind when he ordained they where ?.
Calvanist : Yes that's write😂
Thank God am not a calvanist, this is actually what auguestine and Calvin taught. I don't think this is God of bible. Any thoughts 😂
Stopped listening at "clear and definite answer". It's an opinion. A viewpoint.
I know I am talking from a position of privilege however I truly believe we all are blessed for even a moment of life. There’s no reason besides what reasoning God has for us to even be able to live and consider these things. What would change had I not ever existed? I wouldn’t know otherwise either way… and thats a tough pill to swallow but it is a pill to willingly swallow. Even those that are not given the spirit to believe are given a chance to walk alongside those that do. Suffering comes to us all regardless and that is what is supposed to be the bridge to connect those with favor and those without… again tough to do and easy for me to say as someone who, if my life was over tomorrow received exceeding amounts of blessing… but I believe it to be true regardless. All I can do is take my faith, my belief in my own favor that I do not deserve, and do the best I can with it.
Please pray for my marriage restoration
I did
It's predestined to fail or not.
This last year and a half have been the hardest on my 12 years marriage, I'm really trying to stand back some, God soften our hearts, amen. Prayers for your situation.
How is it going now?
It scares me that my heart is grieving over this, because I still love God and absolutely acknowledge that He is sovereign and knows better than I. I do not want to be worldly in my thinking or prideful as if I know better. Praying for you all to have comfort in this as well.
It sounds like you are a really good, caring person. Is it good to love a god who burns people forever just because that god "claims" to be good? If a good god gave you a mind it should be OK to use it. Don't be afraid to think critically about your faith.
@@philipmunson3369. Who are you O man that repliest against God? Can the thing formed say unto the Him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus?
God is free to do anything he wants, sin is so wicked that it deserves eternal punishment. Human minds cannot grasp the seriousness of sin, neither can it grasp the holiness of God. If you sin you have sinned against an Almighty Holy God, you are deserving of hell. Please humble yourself, I used to think hell was just too much, but then as I meditated on how wicked sin it I began to realise God's punishment is good and just.
@@categories5066 if sin deserves hell then god should be the one jump into the lake of fire because he is the biggest criminal of all
@@Android-ds9ie. You are showing how much hate you have goodness. God by nature is just, therefore sin must receive its punishment.
@@categories5066 Evil God cannot punish Evil god is the one who created human beings to be Evil
We all deserve hell. Only by God's mercy are any of us saved from it.
Jesse Gandy, God created us to be with Him in heaven... All God's children deserve heaven...Can you please give a verse for your for what you said that ''all of us deserve hell''? Thanks
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo romans 3:23 the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ.
2 peter 3:9. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Luke 13:3 but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
We deserve hell because of our sin "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)," ephesians 2:4-5
So if "you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9.
@@cjpetty1, Sorry bro., But none of the verses you gave say that we deserved hell... You wrote: ''''We deserve hell'''' because of our sin "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)," ephesians 2:4-5 =>>> You just inserted ''We deserved hell'' Why are you changing the scriptures???? It is not right in the sight of God... I was asking you to give me a verse that says, we deserved hell and you gave a verse and added a lie.....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo Show me a verse where it says we deserve heaven.
@@cjpetty1, I did not say that we all deserved heaven... But all the elect will be saved... John 6:39 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.=>>> How do you understand this verse?
Just my interpretation of the scripture. If God is sovereign and all powerful with no beginning or end. He has already seen and been to the end of our time and he already dwells with us in heaven NOW. knowing who will make it to heaven from the beginning and who will not no matter how he intervenes in their life, I believe this is what predestination is in his ultimate love and wisdom. Yes even God in all his power cannot make a person turn to him and since he knows who those people are he simply determines the end from the start since nothing is hidden from him. He does not need to wait for our death to know where we will end up.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
I think we are already in hell.
Please everyone pray for me I need your intercession
what do you need a prayer for
I prayed for you
I prayed
We are spiritually dead brother. And that means DEAD DEAD DEAD! We don't want anything to do with the bible or GOD. We don't care at all about our souls condition or anything relative to it. Tell someone physically dead to just have faith and get up. How can they there dead? Being spiritually dead is the same thing.It would take a act from GOD for either of those to happen , just like to be saved from spiritual death , it takes GOD to do that and if you're struggling with sin and concerned about your souls condition and afraid of the guilt and penalty of sin which is everlasting hell or anything related to GOD'S WORD , my friend you can rest assured that that is GOD dealing with you because those concerns are spiritual evidence . Because man's nature and his heart are enemies of GOD. And having more and more thoughts of spiritual things is from nobody except GOD above. It's a WONDERFUL thing to be troubled about ones soul and tore plum up, because that means it's from THE ALMIGHTY and HE WILL finish what HE starts. You are and will be prayed for brother
I cannot support this. This flies in the face of everything I know of the living God. To think that God would create people that he loves who have absolutely no chance of redemption no matter what they may desire seems totally opposite of God's character of love. Yes, we all deserve hell and death, but to think that everyone's fate is already determined is nonsense. Why give the Great Commandment if it's already decided? Why have churches? Why have missionaries? I have much respect for John Piper and John Macarthur, but I cannot disagree more strongly.
Amen. What Piper is saying is theological confused gibberish. The calvinistic view of God is that before anyone did right or wrong, before the foundation of the world, God decided to elect people to eternal life. This being the case, then by default everyone else is part of the non-elect (whether directly chosen as non-elect or made non-elect because they are not elect) and thus predestined for the lake of fire. the Bible does teach that people who end up in the lake do deserve to go there because they face God with their sins in tact rather than facing God with Christ as their intercessor. This is where Calvinists do so why their doctrine is gibberish in light of the Bible. People cannot possibly be responsible for ending up in the lake of fire if they were made part of the non-elect BEFORE the foundation of the world and BEFORE anyone did anything right or wrong. They are predestined to the Lake of Fire BECAUSE they were not chose as part of the elect. Calvinists have their heads buried in the sand if they can't see this conclusion from what it means for WHEN people are chose to be elect and non-elect. The eternal state of both has nothing to do with anything about us but what calvinism's god did BEFORE anyone did right or wrong.
You should take a look at this video ruclips.net/video/Daomzm3nyIg/видео.html
@@ronneff5894 or perhaps the Bible just contains tons of logical contradictions, this being a massive one.
@@jacksonbenzick2357 the Bible has no contradictions much less tons of them. I have seen that it is always the ignorance of people who claim contradictions that don't study the Bible. God does not predestine anyone to hell. That is a calvinist idea that is rooted in their philosophy which started with Augustine who brought it in from his previous pagan beliefs. John Piper long ago discarded the Bible for Calvinists views . it is the Calvinist philosophy that is at odds with the Bible and not the Bible at odds with itself.
@@ronneff5894 its not calvinism. Romans 9 says God predestined everybody. You are disagreeing with the bible.
@@ronneff5894 it is not unjust for God to predestine humanity to hell. He can do whatever he wants. He doesnt owe us anything.
This short video demonstrates why I consider Piper one of the most underrated and under-considered theological "explainers" of our time.
For he would rightly point out he is not a theologian because nothing he says is novel or newly understood, per se, but he does explain simply, reverently, concisely and very patiently and compassionately as a man who has wrestled with these things at great length difficult, controversial and hard-to-hear theological concepts.
He is the messenger of devil
I disagree with him and calvinism but hes a wonderful man of God with great fruit just bad doctrine.
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 You should read Death to death by John Owens in pdf online for free, and with scripture he will change your mind. God is the one who elects, redeems, sanctifies, and glorifys us. When we say we make the final decision on our salvation, that is to say we save ourselves ultimately and Jesus just helps. All that does Is just minimizes the efficacy of the cross, and steals his glory. Jesus Died for the elect and he will not fail to gain one intended sheep. Let’s just be happy we have been shown mercy. God has perfect wisdom and the rest deserve hell just like us, just because we are saved doesn’t mean God owes the others, just means he did something good that he didn’t have too. Anyways God bless, I think that book would change your mind.
b**-This is a really bad apologetics video, it doesn't answer why God creates people that God knows will reject him.
Is he forced to create all humans even the ones that go to hell. if not why not create only those who go to heaven?
Free will is not a solution because in heaven we will have free will and there will be no sin please help.
1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12).
John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception.
2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell.
3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ.
4. John Piper is inadvertently doing Satan's work for him. He's deceived, and he's deceiving others.
Twice you mentioned that the sinner has a "choice." I thought choice wasn't an option , especially if you are elect to salvation. Piper said, "Everyone who perishes has 'chosen' sin in such a way as to be truly responsible for his 'choice,' and truly guilty, and truly deserving of judgment.” So were the Arminians right in saying that God "looked down a portal of time and saw who would and would not choose him, and determined their destination based on His foreknowledge? Pretty interesting how at one point God is sovereign and can do whatever He wants, but then the choice is the sinners. Hmm...something is amiss.
What if part of His sovereignty is His choice to give us a choice? I haven’t heard about the arminians, but that’s an interesting thought. The Holy Spirit reveals truth, I pray He will answer this question for you. But if He does not, I beg you not to make the mistake of rejecting God because of our own limited knowledge. He has changed me, I am a new creature. I should’ve been dead so many times. I am testifying to His goodness!
@@nandimichel-trapaga2615 amen
You are quite correct in this point. Pastor John just needed to clarify that I think. Especially with as important of a point as it is. But think about it. If we were not able to count on Jesus forgiveness for all our sin then what would be the point of faith ?
@@nandimichel-trapaga2615 good thing I'm saved, but I do very much appreciate your genuine concern for the lost. But I will say this, inconsistency won't fly with the lost. If Piper sounds contradictory, they
re not going to buy what he's selling. He needs to be very clear about how God elects, yet man is choosing. I understand Irresistible Grace according to Calvin, but either God selected us or not. I don't believe He does, I believe in free will, not the bondage of the will.
@@nandimichel-trapaga2615 you are not the elect, I am, but you are not. I’m sorry, it was his sovereign will
I don't agree with everything Piper says, but I appreciate that he's consistent. Since Piper claimed that God predestines everything, such as the tying of our shoelaces or the brushing of our teeth, it would have been inconsistent for him to say God doesn't predestine people to Hell.
I agree that Piper is consistent…..consistent in that that he’s been presenting a false distortion of Scripture and doesn’t really know what he’s talking about!!!!
@@anthonylowder6687Elaborate rather than simply falsely accuse. Defend your false statement.
Is it possible that we're just making all of this up?
@@mattr.1887 Well the good news on that one is that, say, sixty seconds after your last heartbeat you will definitively know the eternal answer. No worries....????
Yeah, Calvinism is utterly false and distorts the Gospel.
Who are we as mere mortals to try and comprehend the mind of God? Our finite minds could not begin to come close. God is Holy and we are completely hopeless outside of Christ.
We can comprehend His word. We can honor it above the dictates of theologians.
If our minds are so imperfect, how can we know for certain God exists in the first place? Shouldn't such a pessimistic conception of the human mind result in absolute agnosticism and absolute skepticism?
@@andyisdead We can only know so much intellectually. But we can know a person personally, can't we? A fellow human being, we only know by what we can see. But God is able to communicate to our hearts who He is, and that is what the Bible says He does, reveal Himself to our inmost beings through His Holy Spirit. A person who believes in Jesus on the basis that the Holy Spirit convicted him/her that He is real and of the most righteous, holy and good character possible, that we need forgiveness and salvation, and that Jesus's death on the cross is sufficient to save us, knows Him, but may not know very much about Him, yet. We learn, but our initial and subsequent faith is not based on our intellectual understanding, not even our understanding of the gospel.
@Curt Christensen No, I didn't. I did not regurgitate the answer you insist on, which is a lie.
@Curt Christensen No, Curt, not necessarily. God has revealed things we can understand, but naturally there's a vanishing point, where things are beyond our understanding.
For an illustration of how things are vastly beyond our ability to completely understand, look at quantum physics. Observation and the math tells them most of what they know, but most of the content that has been added is speculation. It is clearly at a vanishing point of human understanding, so they just speculate more wildly. If the first thing in knowing is knowing that you dont know, theyvare kind of failing that test, because they think the authority of "science" (meaning themselves) depends on their knowing almost it all, that they are 9/10 of the way towards their Grand Theory of Everything: just stay tuned; it's almost there. I don't believe it.
God could have simply never put the forbidden fruit in the garden of eve and sin would have never entered the world. thus, nobody would be going to hell if it wasnt for God. God is to blame for all evil
John 6:64
[64]But some of you do not believe me.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.)
BUT FOREKNOWLEDGE DOES NOT IMPLY PREDESTINATION. I BELIEVE GOD PREDESTINES MANY EVENTS. MANY EVENTS THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE HAVE BEEN PREDESTINED. JESUS' BIRTH WAS PREDESTINED. JESUS' DEATH WAS PREDESTINED. JESUS' RESURRECTION WAS PREDESTINED. MANY THINGS IN OUR OWN LIVES COULD VERY WELL BE PREDESTINED. BUT GOD CERTAINLY DOES NOT PREDESTINE PEOPLE TO GO TO HELL. IT IS MAN'S CHOICE TO EITHER ACCEPT GOD'S PATH OR REJECT IT. 2PE 3:9 THE LORD IS NOT SLACK CONCERNING HIS PROMISE, AS SOME MEN COUNT SLACKNESS; BUT IS LONGSUFFERING TO US-WARD, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE. JOHN 3:16-18 MAKES EVERYTHING VERY CLEAR. GOD BLESS YOU
@@mercibeaucoup2639 AMEN!
@@mercibeaucoup2639 Amen
@@JJ_Jordan0 God bless you my Brother.
@@johnfal1849 God bless you my Brother.
I appreciate this answer. I was just thinking about this the other day and thought to honor God is to do His will.
So if He didn’t choose you to be saved and you live a life dishonoring God, are you honoring Him by fulfilling His will? Even though you’re breaking His laws and not turning to Him?
And if God chose you not to be saved but you accept Him as Lord and Savior are you going against His will and dishonoring Him?
That’s a paradox, it can’t be true. I accept that my human mind will not understand Gods infinite wisdom
Child... read the Bible:
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Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
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Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
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Great question.
That's kinda like saying " I didn't want to be late to work, so I just didn't go instead".
I understand what you mean, but study the book of Romans.
The fact that u want to follow God is a gift from God. Most people simply don’t care. God draws people to follow him. It is not in our fallen nature to want to obey God. If u want to obey God it’s because He’s drawn you to him. If you want to be saved that is God convicting you to follow him. He’s not going to turn you away when it is him who draws us to him. No need to worry about all of this elect or non elect friend if you have a desire to follow God then u are among the elect. John 6:44. There’s another verse I can’t remember off the top of my head but it basically says how we can’t follow God without God softening our hearts to him
@@healedsinner and is that putting your full on trust in Christ?
Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
Matthew 18:14 KJV
We should delight that the Lord has a real and deep compassion for perishing sinners. Yet this longing does not govern God's actions. He is governed by the depth of his wisdom expressed through a plan that no ordinary human deliberation would ever conceive. God's will to save all people is restrained by his commitment to the glorification of his sovereign grace. I would recommend reading about the differences between God's will of DECREE and will of COMMAND. There are many other examples like 2 Peter 3:9 that can be explained with this line of thinking. Such as the Lord willing that we obey him, yet we continue in sin. Or the Lord willing that the Isrealites flee Egypt, yet hardening Pharaoh's heart to prevent them from leaving. Etc.
A Calvinist would say...I agree it's not really His will, and in the same breath will follow up with but it kind of really is.
@@aarongochnauer9576 So what you're saying is that it is not his will that they perish. And even though he can rescue them they are screwed because God has bigger things to worry about (like His glory) than the billions of his creatures suffering unimaginable pain in hell for all eternity in hell. This is the great loving compassionate God you worship...what a joke.
@@2growdaily181 I for sure see where you are coming from! It is a hard thing for myself to accept as well. I am sure there are much wiser people that could defend or even refute this, but I am a simple person, and the two things I come back to are: 1) God's thoughts are not our thoughts (meaning just because something doesn't seem logical to me, doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to God.) I realize this is not appealing though. 2) instead of asking "why won't God save EVERYONE?" we should be asking "why would God save ANYONE?" in the sense that we love sin, want to sin, and choose sin over and over again in direct defiance to God, how much grace and mercy he must have to even save one of us is amazing. Good questions though! let me know if you have any more.
@@aarongochnauer9576 You ask "why would God save ANYONE? Here a couple of reasons. He is our creator. He is supposed to be loving and compassionate. He commands us to love our enemies and to give them water. And it is just the plain descent and right thing to do. And lastly, supposedly the the death of Jesus has the power to overcome sin, death, and devil...so Jesus apparently paid the penalty for sin but God refuses to apply it to 99% of humanity. If we saw someone dying from fire or burning and refused to help them when it was in our power do so...we would be considered terrible humans. I can't believe that humans would be more compassionate and a better example of love than God. OR THIS WHOLE CALVINIST DOCTRINE IS FALSE AND MALIGNS AND MISREPRESENTS GOD'S TRUE CHARACTER.
"Does God Predestine People to Hell?"
Well, John Calvin believed it. And millions believe it now. But it's NOT true! So why do these people believe it? It's easy...
...once you get on your knees and go straight to Jesus (who is the ONLY true God Almighty); and pray to him seriously and ask for "Wisdom", "Understanding" and "the Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth"! Without that, NO bible is worth a penny UNTIL Jesus gives you those 3 things. Oh Indeed! Believe it or not.
And the ONLY place ANY one can go on this can find the true truth; without errancy and/or fallibility; is to Jesus. Believe it or not. I didn't do it for a long 75 yrs of my 91 yr old's Christian. But NO more; because Jesus has shown me that "Predestination and Omniscience"; are as far apart as 2 Universes! IE:
Predestination = you make things happen. ONLY Jesus can do that 100%!
Omniscience = you KNOW things are going to happen before; but you do NOT always make it happen. Like: "If you put your hands on that stove; you are going to get burned!". And it happened. BUT...the stove was off and you didn't know it! Oh Yes. But with Jesus, it's different...
Jesus KNOWS every thing that will EVER happen. But he does NOT always make it happen; most of the time. And that is the secret. Thus, John "Calvin's" miss-understood the power of Jesus. Thus, He wrote a book before Creation; and put EVERY thing that would ever be.
And that makes John and his "echoes" think it's predestination. But that is WRONG! For, Jesus gave ALL humans "Free-Will". And He stays away MOST of the time. Thus, even though Jesus KNOWS it is going to happen, in essence, He never knows it. Now you say that can't be? Oh Yeah? Huh?
Well think about this "knotheads"...Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Hooray! And the End of Story; and I rest me case...
...In any case kind Sir and Brethren, Please Pray OFTEN and Praise Jesus OFTEN; for He is the ONLY true "God Almighty"; there will ever have been. And may Jesus bless you and yours always. AMEN!
Every person walking the earth deserves hell. There are none good, no not one. This is why God is so loving, He gave us a way to be saved...Jesus. Everyone needs salvation. much love brothers and sisters Jesus Christ is King
I'm betting that if you were born in a country where you never heard of Jesus and died a non-Christian, you would likely think different.
max marrero Calvinism is heresy and unbiblical. John Calvin created his own Bible, a Bible in which God made people sin and proceeds to punish them for having carried out his will. Jesus never died for our sins in Calvinism. He died because God wanted to make his son suffer, even though he could save people without Jesus’s crucifixion. Calvinism is a false religion. Plain and simple.
@max marrero we all deserve hell exactly. God is Holy and just. First off Adam and Eve chose to eat the apple. God said do not eat that one apple. And what did they do? They ate the apple. That's how we are today God commands us what we should be doing and it's our decision are we going to follow God command or are we just not going to listen to him.
Jesus is Yahweh God. The bible says this explicitly all over the place. Read john 1 for starters. God sacrificed itself.
There was no apple! The fruit was probably an analogy. The choice that was made was they choose spiritual death.
John keeps making God seem unrelatable and so out of reach and terrifying to trust, how can you love and trust a God you cannot understand?, when god is very relatable, its throughout the bible. Stop teaching people about zues! Teach them Yeshua!
If he predestines them to hell, how are they responsible?!!! If they are essentially “dead in sins” and “in bondage to sin” and are incapable of saving themselves, how are they responsible?!! They can’t acknowledge God without his help. If he doesn’t help them, knowing their state and knowing they can never choose him, how are they responsible for their own sin? This doesn’t make sense.
@TheTrinitarianRemnant888
EZEKIEL 18:30-32 “30 “THEREFORE, YOU ISRAELITE'S, I WILL JUDGE EACH OF YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN WAYS, DECLARES THE SOVEREIGN LORD. REPENT! TURN AWAY FROM ALL YOUR OFFENSES; THEN SIN WILL NOT BE YOUR DOWNFALL. 31 RID YOURSELVES OF ALL THE OFFENSES YOU HAVE COMMITTED, AND GET A NEW HEART AND A NEW SPIRIT. WHY WILL YOU DIE, PEOPLE OF ISRAEL? 32 FOR I TAKE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF ANYONE, DECLARES THE SOVEREIGN LORD. REPENT AND LIVE!”
Child, all men are born spiritually DEAD because of Adam.
If you do not understand the BEGINNING of the Gospel...
how can you understand ANY of the Gospel?
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Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
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Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
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no. never. God doesn't predestined people to hell. God wants all people to be saved. Tax collector and harlot are first to saved and enter the Kingdom of God. Jesus came in the world not to destroy the lives but he will save them. Sir Pastor what you say is bad theology.
Here's what's wrong with this whole predestination thing: 1) How do we know that God hasn't predestined for everyone, including Satan, to eventually be saved? Who are we to say that He can't do what He pleases? Who are we to say that God has to damn anyone? If His sill is to damn, then He will damn. If it is to save all, then He will save all. So lets stop worrying about who will be saved and damned and just worry about whether YOU will be saved or damned. Have faith. Read the scriptures. Turn to God. Stop trying to figure out God's infinite mind. 2) Even if we did determine that somehow by reading the Bible that there was no flexibility in this question and that the Bible somehow demands that God must will to damn some or many souls, how does this help me? Am I predestined to salvation or damnation? Where's the list that I can look up? Is there an Internet site with this data in it that I can look up? What if i just live a really sinful life and feel down on myself -- does this mean that I am predestined and should give up? Or what if my name is Calvin and i have a "gut feeling" that I am saved. Is this certainty that I am saved? This doctrine gives no useful advice. It gives no predictive ability. Forget it. Maybe God does predestine salvation. Who cares? Turn to God. Find faith. Pray. Do good. Accept Jesus Christ. Read the Gospel. Stop worrying about something that smart people think they have figured out but in fact they haven't even scratched the surface because the mind of God is infinite and beyond their comprehension.
Let me ask you this question, would it be OK for God to predestined you to hell?
Amen. I myself wonder what is the point of this theology. Why does it matter if we’re Arminian or Calvinist? Or in the middle? What matters is if we believe in Jesus as savior, or not.
Leave it at that. What is the importance of the other details? So we can boast in our depravity about how great God is and in the process fail to spread the gospel as He’s instructed us to do?
The more I learn about Calvinism the more it feels like a lazy theology.
Silly child... we know because we READ the Bible.
Obviously you need to READ the Bible because your question
shows you have no understanding of what Scripture says.
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I can tell you're a bit immature from your opening line, so let me tell you this -- read the WHOLE Bible, nit just the bits and pieces that seem to agree with your personal beliefs. And stop putting other Christians down. You're fuel for the atheists and Muslims. Let's work together.
@@kelseycooper5973 .... you ignorant little child.
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(1) you say in your original post (and I quote)
1) How do we know that God hasn't predestined for everyone, including Satan, to eventually be saved?
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We know this because the Bible PROMISES only the elect are saved.
The Bible PROMISES that NO MAN will ever seek God, No, not even one.
Jesus PROMISES that NO MAN can come to Him unless the Father "draws" them and
Jesus PROMISES that ALL MEN the Father give Him will come and HE will lose NONE
Jesus PROMISES the church consists of unsaved "tares" sown by Satan...destined to Hell
Jesus PROMISES that hell will be heavily populated
The Bible PROMISES that Hell is reserved for Satan and his Demons
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And yet you know NONE of this and in your snowflake heretical delusion you even
wonder if ALL MEN will be saved and even SATAN and his DEMONS will be saved.
You are bat-shit looney and do not have the slightest CLUE about the Gospel.
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You show by your "fruit" that you are an unsaved "tare" sown by Satan and destined
to eternal torment. Make no mistake, you will be surrounded by other unsaved "Christians"
as well as all those REJECTING Christ... like Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics,
Secular Humanists, Pagans and Satanists.
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In my almost 50 years of preaching I have NEVER seen a "Christian" as confused and ignorant
as you. I have NEVER heard a "Christian" suggest that SATAN will be saved. Just pathetic.
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So a baby that dies after one hour of life has chosen hell. How? He was born with original sin and worthy of hell, but what choice did he make? You are quite clear that god hates the damned before they do anything.
This question - predestination for Hell - has worried me because I have a hard time finding God no matter how hard I seek Him. I have this worry that maybe I'm one of the "vessels made for destruction"
Hey Benjamin! I struggled with this exact same thing for a while. The thing is, if God put you in the path to see His Good Word and His Glory, then he means more for you! I struggled feeling like i was one of those people that was destined for Hell, but, Praise the Lord, the more I spent praying and learning about Him and falling in love with Him, the more i realized that that was simply not me. I pray that he does the same for you! you have to push yourself to pray even when you don’t want to, study the Bible even when you don’t want to, etc. I would ask that the Lord forgive me for any incorrect theological ideas in this, if there are any. God Bless!
The very fact that you're trying to find God shows that you're well on your way to finding Him.
Keep on asking, it SHALL be given.
Keep on seeking, you SHALL find.
Keep on knocking, it SHALL be opened.
Jesus says"Him that cometh to Me, I shall in no wise cast out"John 6:37
Please rest on the Word of God. Don't bother about predestination. That's God's work. Our work is to trust and obey!
@@sammiejones2012 Dear Sam, those words of yours sound so blessed and sensible! I've been struggling for a year already with this - which has been the worst battle ever, a real nightmare that I can't seem to wake up from! If there's any chance I could briefly write or talk to you about it, please say hi @ diegoribeiroabc@gmail.com
Kind regards from Brazil,
Diego Ribeiro
IMO you should take Piper's advice and forget about predestination then.
Dear brother Benjamin... This is a lie a belief the devil wants to use to stop you from seeking God... God words are true he exalts his words beyond even his name and what did his word say it says when you seek me with your whole heart then you shall find me... Your question your search now should be how do i seek God with my whole heart. Am i already seeking God with my whole heart... Please don't let the devil deceive you be blessed.
Who's asking these (good) questions?! Do they want the comment section to explode?!
Dude🤣
Bruh
No, I don’t believe that He does that. We make that decision and it’s based on our own free will.
1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12).
John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception.
2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell. When one trusts in Christ and is saved, he becomes predestined for heaven and service to God. No one is determined before creation to be saved. That would be salvation outside of Christ.
3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ. Scripture repeatedly confirms this.
4. John Piper is inadvertently doing Satan's work for him. He's deceived, and he's deceiving others. Seriously though, Calvinism is 100% Satanic. It's a theological trap set up to divide the church internally.
Weird how calmly some people are willing to accept that an eternal infliction of physical and psychological agony is a deserved punishment.
Even weirder that there are so many people who will not bend the knee before an Almighty God that much in charge of His universe. It is perhaps these people that scripture and Piper are talking about in this video.
@@Gablesman888if they are not predestined then it makes sense that they don’t bend a knee.
@@joshuabeiswenger2141 Predestined or not predestined, all will bend the knee. Read the verse: "every knee"--"every knee"--"every knee". Philippians 2:10. You also see this in the Book of Revelation. You can surely find the verses without my help.
One of the real spiritual weaknesses of A/P is the failure to see that the God we worship plays for keeps. I know this from experience having once been a deceived A/P myself. But we can know His love forever when we come to Him by faith, which is only accomplished through his elective grace. Eph 2:8-9.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
@@realtalkph.Amen. Im 100% in agreement. Ask any Christian if man has a free will, and ask for an immediate answer. Then ask if God has a free will and ask for an immediate answer. It’s an interesting experiment. Telling.
Every Knee Will Bow and Every Tongue Will Confess that Jesus Christ is Lord Hallelujah God Bless ✌
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
@@realtalkph. Here's who God will have mercy on:
" *God* has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all." (Romans 11:32, ESV).
"The creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of *him* who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:19-21, ESV).
As you can see, in both passages, God appears to take responsibility for man's sin, and hints at a glorious future for all mankind.
I love the way Pastor John begins the episode. It’s as if he’s saying it’s better to have a bad/wrong understanding of predestination that it is to have a bad/wrong understanding of God’s goodness and love.
Yes! Better to misunderstand a biblical concept than to misunderstand the nature of the goodness of God!
The opening remarks that you shared, Pastor Piper, really hit home. You mentioned experincing a kind of mental and emotional torment in your early twenties, and here I am (21 years old) struggling and wrestling with many of the theological realities I believe, but find difficult to understand and organize within my full ( but always growing and progressing) knowledge of the Holy One.
*"Full" as in my current capacity, but not the ultimate capacity of the knowledge of God.
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
Boldly I proclaim…do I have all the answers? Absolutely no. God gave us a freewill so we could on our own freewill choose to accept or reject Jesus Christ with our freewill. True love has choice to love God or reject God. God wants true love not robots. The core problem with Pipers theology is that he downplays our freewill in salvation to make us robots because God is sovereign
Some topics aren’t meant for us to FULLY understand and that’s okay. Whatever the Bible says is true whether it seems to be predestination or not it doesn’t change the fact that the Bible says believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
God is perfect John Calvin is not , this is a Calvinist's commentary on biblical truths and is dangerous beyond measure. Read all scriptures not just the ones spoken of here and you will find the truth which will set you free. Calvin ws just a man... God is God. Saved by grace through FAITH otherwise salvation is is not for everyone only the lucky 'elect' ! Pride cometh before destruction.
There are many good preachers such as Tony Evans,Adrian Rogers ,A W Tozer (even though some have died still their messages are in youtube)beside these reformed preachers.i dont like these word of faith preachers,but also the reformed theology i dont agree with at all.Jesus died for all people (1john 2:2).if you believe in Jesus,you will be saved.whoever calls in the Name of the Lord will be saved.nobody is predestined for hell.predestination and free will are both in the Bible and is impossible to understand how they work together.maybe we will never understand it.is a MYSTERY.lets leave it there.is not for us to know.Trust God.God is good all the time.whoever believes in Jesus will be saved.
Why don't you agree with Reformed theology?
Isn't this exactly what Pastor John said? That although known and set by God, it is done in a way that a man's sinful choice leaves them accountable, and we cannot understand. That is literally the essence of reformed theology
Well said, this man is twisting scripture, people beware the wolf in sheep’s clothing
Bond_Fire 007 just believe in Christ and what He accomplished at Calvary, nothing needs to be reformed from the bible
If Jesus PAID for the sins of ALL PEOPLE then nobody will go to hell...
because no sin must be paid TWICE.
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You have to make sure your "theory" harmonizes with ALL RELATED
passages and not just one-or-two verses. All heresy harmonizes with
one-or-two verses...
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Jesus PAID for the sins of "His Sheep"... they have no condemnation.
All others must pay for their OWN SINS (every idle word and even
their sinful thoughts). This is theology 101... why is it NEWS to you?
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There are a multitude of scriptures that dispute Calvinism. If you are really interested in scriptural truth take a few minutes and read these verses: Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it." So, as a Calvinist, do you really believe that God arbitrarily creates some people for one reason; to burn for eternity in hell? They can't accept Christ dying on the cross for their sins. God somehow gets glory for making them sinners and sending them to hell. So, from the very start, God tells Adam and Eve, do not eat from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and yet He makes them eat from that very tree, since as per Calvinism, EVERYTHING is God's will. God gives the Ten Commandments, thou shall have no other gods before me, and then makes people worship false gods. God says, do not take God's name in vain, and then makes countless millions do that very thing. God says, do not kill, steal, commit adultery etc and then makes countless millions do the very things He says, don't do. A serial child molesting rapist/murderer is simply doing what God has ordained for him to do? You think of all the evil that is perpetrated on innocent people by evil, wicked, satanically driven individuals, and you want me to believe that God 's will is being carried out? The Bible says, God is holy, righteous, and full of mercy. AND the Bible says, God is love. God's will is not being carried out, at least not in the way Calvinists say. My Bible says, God is not willing that any should perish." and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it." So, while God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance and be saved, many, in fact, most are not. Calvinism has a problem with the Sovereignty of God. They just can't grasp that God, in His Sovereignty, can give man a degree of free will. Hence, Joshua can say, "Choose you this day whom you will serve." In act 17:30 God can call men everywhere to repent, that is, to change their mind about sin and turn from it and turn to God through Christ. Why are we called in the Bible to share the Gospel with the lost and lead them to Christ, if it won't matter; after all, God decides who is saved and who is lost, our preaching won't change that. If our preaching would in some way help them make a decision for Christ, that would imply some degree of free will. You mention how the Bible says, "No one can come to me unless the Spirit draws him..." It doesn't say, no one can come to me unless the Father MAKES him come. Yes, unless the Holy Spirit is working, we can't come to Christ, but when He draws us we are now able to say Yes or NO to His call. Again, that's why and how Joshua can say, "Choose you this day whom you will serve." The Calvinist God seems to be saying one thing in scripture and then going against His own words by making humans do the very things He says for us not to do.
If you follow calvanism you follow another God not the God of scripture. Such a horrible god they read into scripture.
I became a Christian couple of months ago, and the gospel message I was told was that God loves ALL sinners, and desires us to repent and be saved. After I got saved, I actively searched for bible studies to further my foundational knowledge of the Word. I see people saying, "our mental capacity cannot comprehend God's will / plan" "we won't know until we're in heaven", etc regarding this topic, but this has always been on the back of my mind. Maybe it's how my brain is wired? I always need to understand the big picture of everything to understand, and I can't seem to ignore this question; does God predestine people to hell? I'm tempted to believe what my other Christian friends believe; that the world has free will, and our salvation relies on whether we choose Jesus or not. However I'm struggling to search for the answer of what the bible truly says. I want to accept the entire biblical truth even if it's painful to, rather than nit picking what I choose to / choose not to, accept to feel better. And tbh, the idea that God would predestine people to hell depresses me, and makes me feel miserable. For instance, millions the babies being aborted today, that was their destiny? What's the point of protesting against abortion then? And this topic leads me to question, what's the point of all this? Why did God create us in the first place? Why bother creating the non-elect; those who are predestined to not choose Jesus in the end. If anyone can recommend me books, sermons, or offer an explanation, please do so!
Hi Ella, try "The inescapable Love of God" by T.Talbot. Interesting thoughts there to consider.
Pray to Jesus for truth and peace....let Him lead you...it's not an easy subject...we all know what you mean!
Hi Ella, praise God that you have come to know Jesus as your Saviour! 🙌 This is the greatest news! I think what might help you is to first explore the character and nature of God.... Like Piper said, he doesn't want to undermine the justice and goodness of God.... First be assured of what you believe about God before tackling a topic like this.... I think this might be helpful. Grace and peace to you on your journey with Christ🙏
You were told a LIE. God does not love all sinners.
And you probably are following a false gospel (heresy)
thinking that YOU initiated your salvation... that is not possible.
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All babies go to heaven, not even Calvinists would deny this. As for God's seeming cognitive dissonance - it's God's active decree of will suppressing His passive will. God can desire something in a sense but not bring it to pass for reasons such as glorification of Himself. God also didn't desire for sin to enter but He let it, neither did He desire for His Son to be mocked, beaten and tortured to death but predetermined it for the sake of His active will. In essence, God's commitment to His glory comes before His other desires.
No, He doesn't predestine people to hell. The scriptures clearly state that it is God's will that all repent and be saved. That being the case, he doesn't predestine people to hell. If he did, he would be actively working against what He himself wills. Calvinism is a vile doctrine.
Get real! God is so far above us we can't even imagine how he thinks or is!
We can understand what he wants us to understand by what he's revealed about himself in scripture.
Yep
Exactly!!!
Nope. He says in Scripture we can know his ways and have the mind of christ. You cannot love or trust a god who you cannot know or trust.
Call it whatever you like and make any excuse you want, but if you are not one of God's elect, you are absolutely going to hell. And that was guaranteed before you were even born, and even if you die as a baby and never sinned. Live with it, and you better thank God for it.
God desires that everyone will be saved. But because of freewill, accepting the gift of salvation is up to the hearer of the gospel.
To those who had not heard of the gospel, there is the great white throne judgement which one has to contend with based on God's justice, grace, and mercy through Christ.
You say "God desires everyone will be saved". If he desires it, it should be his will and plan. Is he unable to make a universe where everyone chooses him? Isn't that what heaven is? Why not just create heaven and skip the earth and hell?
If everything goes according to God's plan (Ephesians1:11), then he chose to make a universe with a hell full of people (Matt 7:14). He is ultimately responsible. Was he unable to make a universe with free will where the people who would end up in hell would never be born?
This is a being of unimaginable horror.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 KVJ
I could never love a being who burns people forever. If there really is a loving god, maybe he/she is using Christianity to find out who the morally compromised people are who practice and defend it. This is not meant to be offensive. Just food for thought.
@@philipmunson3369
IMO, I believe the creation process is still on going, until all comes perfectly according to His plan, the New Heaven and the New Earth is the end and the beginning of it all.
Comparing the Burning Furnace to the Lake of Fire, there is so much a big difference between this two.
Furnace is an instrument to make a useful product to come out of it. As in the case of gold and silver you can come out of a pure and perfect one.
In the case of the Lake of Fire, everything that will be thrown in it will be totally annihilated and destroyed. If accdg to Rev. 20 death and hades were destroyed when it was thrown in the Lake of Fire, so will all the dead that were judged in the GWTJ, that will the end of them, the end of their sufferiing in Hades, the place of the dead, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For those who repented and call upon the Name of the Lord after they had served their punishment in Hades, will be saved according to the works they have done during their time on Earth and accdg to God'Grace and the Mercy Seat of Christ in the Ark of the Covenant present in the GWTJ which is also I believe is the Sheep and the Goat Judgement.
The Sheep will be the Nations in the New Heaven and New Earth. The Saints and the Prophets will be the kings after they receive their crowns in the GWTJ.
This is my understanding of how God's plan of Salvation for Mankind and His Creation will come into fruition and perfection.
I am not a teacher, I am just a student of the Bible. I don't have much svriptures to back this up. The only principles that I am basing my understanding of this is about the Owner of the Vineyard, the Sheep and the Goat Judgement, the Ten Virgins, the Wedding Banquet, the Resurrection in the book of Corinthians.
God bless us.
Let the Holy Spirit be our Teacher.
@@roderickcruz5234
So you believe in annihilation. The Bible is pretty clear that hell is a place where the purpose of fire is for eternal torment. Read these verses: Matthew 25:46, Matthew 18:8, Mark 9:48, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Jude 7, Revelation 14:10-11, Revelation 20, 10-15, and please finish with Revelation 22:18-19. When Rev 20 says "death will be destroyed when ...thrown into the lake of fire" it seems to say death will no longer happen. Your interpretation seems to be just the opposite of the author's intent. Wouldn't a good god provide absolute clarity on such an important topic? Why the opposing interpretations? The real question is why take any of this serious? Consider for a moment what you would think if you thought critically about all of this as an outsider to your faith. Are your beliefs truly justified?
@@philipmunson3369
In the sheep and the goat judgement, which I believe is the GWTJ also, the only eternal that is described there id the fire, to serve as a memorial, as what gehenna was in jerusalem.
The problem whith conflicting doctrines that were established by various denominations, is that they did not put the end in mind.
The book of Revelation is the story about the end of everything and the start of eternity. This is where you will get the conclusion and validation or contradiction of all various preconceived views and beliefs.
The study of the book of Revelation was not encouraged during the old times when doctrines were taking its final forms.
Just like in a movie. You get the clear picture when you get to the end not in the middle.
I don't think you even read the verses. Matt 25:46 "They will go away into eternal punishment". Be careful about making the Bible say just what you want it to.
Answer: if you're a calvinist, yes. Literally anyone else in christendom, now.
#calvinismisfalse
Then what's the point of sending missionary to other places or why preach gospel to non believers? if they are predestined to be born again they don't even need to hear gospel at all, they will be automatically be born again.
The means by which they are born again is through the Gospel. They have been predestined to hear the Gospel, and then have been predestined to be saved through the Gospel.
@@juilianbautista4067 if they are predestined to hear the gospel there is no need of praying and sending missionary... as they will hear the gospel anyway...there is no need of preaching? etc...if they are predestined to hear they will hear...
@@juilianbautista4067 Jesus said to Nicodemus that, "you must be born again..." Jesus din't say to Nicodemus, "dont worry Nicodemus you are predestined" or "you are not predestined so no matter what...you go to hell."
They are predestined but apparently they need our intervention as well which I guess that’s predestined too?
This gentleman would have a somewhat believable position on his topic from the Bible if he used all the scriptures pertaining to his doctrine found in the Bible. However, he does not, and his position crumbles when these omitted verses come into the picture to fill the gaps in his presentation.
If you believe in total depravity, then you must believe in predestination
Total depravity would mean that humans are completely deprived of goodness which is obviously false. Although people are sinners, most people have different levels of kindness , goodness, and love in their heart. It's all around you. If you can't see it then your religious beliefs have hijacked your brain.
@@2growdaily181 What is stopping people from being completely evil like the devil and his angels? Surely, you can't credit this to man. God's constant intervention in the minds and hearts of men is what keeps from them turning completely evil.
@@deadcell1 What stops people from being completely evil is their God given conscience and light that is within them. Some have more light than others. Human beings can be both good and evil. Even the potter needs something to work with. Otherwise, there is nothing to mold. If people are totally depraved (zero goodness) how do you explain the love and goodness that billions of people do toward and for one another , often with no reward. How are people held accountable for evil if they can't choose otherwise. The belief in Total Depravity is completely irrational and plainly clearly false. Even a child can see that.
@@2growdaily181 " ...is their God-given conscience and light that is within them. Some have more light than others."
You just invertedly agreed with me and didn't even know it. The conscience people have, is given by God, any light or goodness that may be in people comes from God. How does it get there? The Lord interacts with His creation and places it there. People are not good on their own, if that's so then Satan will have the compacity to be good without God. With that said, every person has the option to choose salvation but without God's intervention they will always choose condemnation. Much like if I place 2 dishes before a tiger (one meat and the other vegetable) it has the option to choose the vegetables but because of its nature, it will always choose the meat.
@@deadcell1 Perhaps I may have misunderstood the meaning of Total Depravity. I understood that term to mean that people have no goodness in them. If you believe that people have some goodness in them, then we agree.
Yes because God gives them over to there own depravity ,it's justice not god being unfair .
Calvinism...If God isn't for you...then who can help you? You are screwed, buddy.
It is not CALVIN that said these words child... it was JESUS.
When you PRETEND otherwise you are only showing the "fruit"
of an unsaved "tare" in the church (sown by Satan) and not the
"fruit" of a saved "wheat" in the church (sown by God)
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Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
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Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
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Now tell me child.... WHICH one of those verses was written by Calvin?
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@@wisevirgin3405 Here child, you missed this one in your list 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.
@@2growdaily181 Child, I am so sorry to see you think that Christ failed
(or even LIED). If you think the context of "ALL" (the word "men" was added,
it is not in the original)... if "ALL" means everyone ever born then Hell will
be empty - or Jesus LIED.
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Since the CONTEXT of the verse is the whole BIBLE, we know Jesus
does not lift ALL MEN... He only lifts ALL of "His Sheep". So you have
two (2) choices child, you can preach that Jesus was a LIAR or you
can understand the CONTEXT is ALL the Father gave Him to save.
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You embarrass yourself child... you tried to ADD the word "men"
into the verse. What does the Bible say about ADDING to Scripture?
Do you know the answer to that question?
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The concept of Predestination contradicts the reality of Free Will. We automatically assume that because God is all knowing, that He has already destined everything in our lives. No... All it means is that God is all knowing. God doesn't exist in time, it is a dimension that only created beings exist in. God dwells in Eternity. So God does not abide by the laws of Time neither does he abide by the laws of physics. If we as Humans could figure out God then I don't think he would be God. What we have to understand is that not only is God Omniscient (All knowing) but he is also Omnipresent ( Everywhere all at the same time). These are concepts we will never understand because we are created beings dwelling within the laws of a physical and material world. Due to God's omnipresence He is in every mili second and nano second of time from the beginning to the end, all at the same time. So we're in the year 2022 but God is also in the year 1975 at the same time. He's fully present in our past, future and our now. Whatever decisions we make now will already be known because he also is present in the future. Our lives are like a reel before him he sees every moment and every process as it happens and he sees the end result. In other words if right now I decide to go out to buy pizza God already knows I went out to buy pizza. If I decide not to go out and buy pizza God alreadys knows I didn't buy Pizza. He didn't predetermine my actions but because He is outside of time yet in it in all its fullness he sees every action and he sees every outcome like alternate realities or watching everything from multiple dimensions all at the same time. It doesn't make sense but it's not supposed to because we are created beings.
Very good point. We have free will, God just knows the outcome
If God predestined people to eternal damnation then the people cannot be blamed for their actions on earth
They should be pitied insted
Accept our will isn’t apart from his power. If the bible is true he can not create a person who’s will is truly there own because it would be contradictory, according to the bible he could have created us differently so our will was predestined.
If God predestines people to Hell then he is a liar
Ezekiel 33:11
Please pray that God elects me for salvation because I doubt I am saved
I will pray for you but what makes you doubt that you are saved?
Please don't buy into this. It's not only not true, but it is a abusive religion.
Hey Amber, God is working in your heart if you care about the Gospel. Do you believe in Jesus' final sacrifice for your sin? Confess it with your mouth and begin to follow Christ, turning from sin. Rest in the mystery. God is good. Contact me any time. Do not be afraid!
Salvation is gift from God and is to be obtained by just believing in the finished work of Jesus on the cross(Romans 10:8-10)
Don't doubt just believe that you are saved (Luke 17:20-21;1John 5:10-13)
This is the terror of Calvinism. God is love and light...which proves Calvinism wrong.
You said God predestined people too go too hell then you say we have a choice religion is one screwed up mess
Please, I need your prayer.. I'm falling away from God. I failed the test and whenever I want to go back my sins become worse 😭😭😭
@JcsBee, Then hear the goodnews of the gospel: Your sins are fully paid for and Jesus has taken them away as if You have never sinned in your entire life. There is thus no sin You have which can out sin Gods grace...thats How much He loves You...it is this love that will break the chains of bondage that enslaves You.
You dont need prayer, You need to understand what Jesus has done for You at the cross.
God bless.
@@brendonburdett7015 How about the Apostasy . Im living with depression now. I cannot produce fruit anymore.
@@brendonburdett7015 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV
bible.com/bible/59/heb.6.4-6.ESV
@@jes9157 You not supposed to produce fruit. Thats Christ work.
@@jes9157 Repent on the goodnews I shared with You. God is not looking for reasons to reject You.Hb 6:4 is about man hardening their hearts towards what God has done...the rejection is from mans side, not Gods side.
The only sin is not to believe that Jesus has taken away your sin.
He gave us free will, he does not cause or predestine anyone to hell! Notice he cherry picks certain scriptures that he uses to support his horrid,extreme teaching, while ignoring the overwhelming number of scriptures that refute it. What kind of god would predestine millions of people to hell before they were even born! This is sick, and certainly untrue!
This comment really irritates me
Johnmark Henry, I can't recall anything to memory anything in the Bible predestining anyone to Hell/Sheol. If some people were MEANT to go to Help anyway, despite the fact that God's grace was given as a gift to save any and every person who would receive Christ, then God's grace would be pointless. God's grace is not fallible, it does not select certain people only to get people to receive the gift of salvation. It is possible for ALL to receive the salvation of God through Jesus's death and resurrection. If it were not possible then that would put limits on God's grace. John Piper just made a big boo-boo on this question. Don't be afraid. God's grace is not limited, His love is not limited, His peace is not limited. He loves you and loved you from the beginning of time. Shame on any theologian trying to tackle this question not truly being prepared. Because of his presupposing, it could have a lot of people believing a lie. God is not limited, so His grace is not limited, so I'm pretty friggin sure it was meant for and is most definitely abundant enough for every person who has ever lived to receive its gift. That abundant and then some. Talk to the Lord, be honest to Him about your feelings and your questions. Don't hold anything in, God can take any question youve got. You have nothing to worry about. Just you wanting to do the right thing is a wonderful thing in God's eyes. He delights in our choice to make good decisions. And no, I don't believe your family is cursed. It is.just a matter of multiple people making the same decision to consume things that are bad for them. Spend some time reading about God's grace. Reading about His love. HE LOVES YOU, AND HIS LOVE IS LIMITLESS. much love to you!!
Jesus said...no one can come to Him unless the Father draws them... predestination is very scriptural..
Really... you cannot remember the Biblical teaching of original sin?
And how (because of Adam) all men are born spiritually DEAD and
destined to hell.
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You must not have read MUCH of the Bible.
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John 3:16,2 peter 3:9, and Many more verses refute this teaching of Calvinism. Jesus Christ died for all of us and Calvinism destroys Christianity let me give you an example a Calvinist goes to preach the gospel and he's saying jesus loves you come to him! But after he's done he thinks why he did that because he may give false assurance to the non elect and he stops preaching the gospel. Another example of how Calvinism destroys Christianity: A man in a Calvinist church the preacher talks about predestination and limited atonement and the man leaves thinking what if I'm not elected and he becomes depressed and worried and after some time leaves Christianity. That's how Calvinism leads people astray.
Very well said
Who am I to question the justice of God? I accept / apprehend the quoted texts even though I cannot comprehend them 🙏🏼🤗
1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12).
John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception.
2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell.
3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ.
4. John Piper is inadvertently doing Satan's work for him. He's deceived, and he's deceiving others.
@@jedimasterham2 Can you elaborate rather than falsely accuse?
@@Gablesman888 It's not a false accusation if it's true. Calvinism is 100% unbiblical, and it turns God into the bad guy who ordains people to sin, and Jesus into the bad news because most were never picked by God to be saved.
All of Calvinism is antichristian, and presents a false gospel that cannot save.
@@jedimasterham2 Again, can you elaborate rather than falsely accuse? Use scripture to prove your assertions, not blah blah. I am also challenging you to properly apply the 1 Cor 3:12 verse which you eisegeted.
You really cannot do this since the A/P approach to the Bible does not appear in the Bible at all. You just showed us a taste of that by misapplying the Corinthians verse. That's about all you got Bub.
On the other hand, the Reformed view of things is on practically every page of the Bible.
Try again if you like. Your time would be better spent on this Thanksgiving Day Eve by having another glass of wine.
Have a great holiday.
@@Gablesman888 Calvinism if a false gospel. Why? Because the following:
1. Calvinism makes salvation exclusive, but Scripture makes it clear salvation is inclusive to whoever believes. There's over 150 verses reiterating this.
2. Calvinism says God picks sinners for heaven, and picks sinners for hell. However scripture says God loves everyone, is impartial, and wants all people to be saved and come to knowledge of the truth.
3. Calvinism says no one can come to believe in Jesus (unless God forces them to believe), but scripture instructs us we must do this to be saved.
4. Calvinism believes true salvation is any sinner whom God picks to be saved before creation. However, this is salvation outside of Christ.
5. Calvinism says people must persevere in works as evidence of salvation. Scripture says we should, but even those carnal believers are still saved, though will burn up works and lose reward.
6. Calvinism makes God responsible for sin and people going to hell, not humans. It also turns Jesus into the bad news, because claim people can't come to believe in Jesus without God forcing them.
In every way possible, Calvinism is not only a false gospel, but is downright antichristian. Arminianism is no better.
I think often times this debate continues because of semantics. For instance... pre destination doesn’t actually mean that God forcibly sends someone to hell right??? It simply means that he knows who will accept and reject him and based off of that “knowledge” he predestines to heaven/hell. But everyone still has a choice.
1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12).
John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception.
2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell.
3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ.
4. John Piper is inadvertently doing Satan's work for him. He's deceived, and he's deceiving others.
@@jedimasterham2 Not sure 1 Cor 3:12 says what you thought it did? But I don’t think John was being deceptive, rather he’s just using scripture to justify his answer.
This topic has to be handled delicately and words have to be articulated correctly because this is a big topic, one which quite frankly turns many away from God because people don’t know what they’re talking about.
John didn’t say that not everyone can be saved, I agree with you that they can. What he said was that the ones who have been “pre-destined” to hell have rejected God in their hearts knowingly and willingly but the choice for salvation was always there.
@@joshuajackson7691 The answer is simple. God does not predestine anyone to hell.
It’s also important to clarify that Predestination is not pre-determination. Predestination is simply a reserve a destination from point A to point B.
When we are saved through faith, we become predestined to heaven, and service to God.
If you really think about it, yeah, some are predestined to hell. Cause free will isn't compatible with omniscience.
If God's knowledge is perfect then no matter what we do, fate is already decided. And how can anyone reconcile the idea of a God that creates people knowing full well that there's no hope for them with the idea that such a God is benevolent?
Where is the love when God creates a person just for them to suffer for all eternity in Hell? How can God love you when he brings you to life so you can be tormented forever?
Omg thank you how can anyone see God as good if he only created us for the purpose of suffering how delusional can someone be
1 Timothy 2:1-6 "I (Paul) therefore exhort that FIRST OF ALL, SUPPLICATIONS, PRAYERS, INTERSESSIONS, and GIVING OF THANKS, BE MADE FOR ALL MEN, for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quite and peaceable life in all Godliness and honesty. FOR THIS IS GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD OUR SAVIOUR; WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, AND TO COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. FOR THERE IS ONE GOD, AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS (WHO IS GOD), WHO GAVE HIMSELF A RANSOM FOR ALL, to be testified in due time."
Deuteronomy 30:19-20 "I (GOD) call Heaven and Earth to record this day against you, that I (GOD) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore (you) choose life, that both you and your seed may live: that you may love the LORD your GOD, and that you may obey His voice, and that you may cleave unto Him: for He is your life, and the length of your days..."
John 3:16-18 "For GOD so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son (WHO IS GOD), that whosoever believes in Him (The Son) should not perish, but have everlasting life. FOR GOD SENT NOT HIS SON INTO THE WORLD TO CONDEMN THE WORLD; BUT THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED. HE THAT BELIEVES ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED: BUT HE THAT BELIEVES NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD."
The last verse Pastor John read is the answer to which Paul gave to this question brought forth... Notice how Paul did not give a direct/straight answer to this question, but he said "What if". I believe that Paul knew by the Holy Ghost that this answer would split and divide the Church: when the Church is meant to be a unified entity - Just as THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE ONE: which was the prayer of Jesus Christ The Righteous, that the Church may be one.
If Paul did not give a direct answer, then I believe that we should answer this question the same way Paul did... because the scriptures I have quoted suggest that even though God is Sovereign, He let's us make the choice of eternal salvation for ourselves and this is His will... Even as the scriptures that Pastor John quoted suggest that God makes the choice of eternal salvation for every man as His will is predestined...
This is clearly a mystery! For bear in mind that "we know in part" and that "God's ways are far beyond our ways, and His thoughts are far beyond our thoughts: EVEN AS THE EAST IS FROM THE WEST, SO FAR ARE HIS THOUGHTS AND WAYS BEYOND OUR THOUGHTS AND WAYS. But we should find comfort in GOD's great mercy and grace towards us, for His love for us compelled Him to give Himself for us!
Ephesians 1:4 God chose us in Christ to be holy and blameless in God’s presence before the creation of the world. 5 God destined us to be his adopted children through Jesus Christ because of his love. This was according to his goodwill and plan...
This verse does not use, "what if." There is nothing mysterious about it either. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, He knows who is going to Hell because He chooses them to as He chooses who goes to Heaven.
+Child Boo what do you say about 1 Timothy 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, whose will is for all men to be saved and come to the knowledge if the truth."?
I say that it's a direct contradiction to the Verse that I presented to you. Strange that Scripture, though inspired by an omniscient and omnipotent would make two separate claims that directly contradict each other.
One says that God (without "what ifs") chose His believers since before the creation of the world so it can be assumed He also chose who'd be unbelievers. The other says that it's God's will if for all men to be saved. Those two statements, whether you like it or not directly contradict each other.
Also, if it's truly God's will for all men to be saved and He's omniscient and omnipotent, which I assume you believe Him to be, should this not be? If it's truly His will, He has the power to do it yet chooses not to. Your god is an awful, evil, egotistical, none to low self esteem being who demands constant worship.
+Child Boo God chose to let men decide for themselves what they want, He is just, and if He chose for us...then His Justice does not stand. I mean its pretty clear that you want nothing to do with God, so just how unjust would it be for God to force you to love Him, and to worship Him and to spend eternity with Him.
instead He gave you a choice, either you want Him or you don't... and He has prepared two places of eternity for both those who want Him and for those who don't. Heaven is prepared for everyone who wants everything to do with God and all that God freely gives, for in Heaven God's Sovereign Will is done. Hell is prepared for those who want nothing to do with God, which is the reason God withdrew Himself from Hell, and He withdrew all the good things which He freely offers as well... some of those things include life, love, peace, joy, food, water, light and health... and these are left in their place death, hate, war, sorrow, hunger, thirst, darkness and pain and suffering.
You choose
Dee Tee -
*God chose to let men decide for themselves what they want, He is just, and if He chose for us...then His Justice does not stand.*
You are contradicting the word of an omniscient and omnipotent being. I guess that His justice does not stand then.
*I mean its pretty clear that you want nothing to do with God*
Your particular choice of god is among the most horrible of them all. To create billions of humans knowing that they will not believe in Him, most through no fault of their own, to send to hell is a pretty horrible thing to do, don't you think?
*so just how unjust would it be for God to force you to love Him, and to worship Him and to spend eternity with Him.*
If it's His will, as you stated, He could just have done this. No one would be being forced. It would just be the way things were made by Him from the beginning.
*instead He gave you a choice, either you want Him or you don't*
No He didn't. He chose and made you and other believers to be believers since before creating Earth. Lucky you and other believers (though Heaven doesn't seem really great to me). Like me, you have no choice.
*and He has prepared two places of eternity for both those who want Him and for those who don't.*
Right. He has two places. One for the people He creates to believe in Him and the other for those that don't. Christian theology in this sense is quite abhorrent: The Christian God is a monster, imposing its hellish will upon human beings who have no choice but to suffer for eternity. Good thing that your god is as non existent as the thousands of gods that you happen to not believe in.
No one in hell asked to be born into sin before they were born.
If someone is truly guilty by their wrong choices then how does that balance with predestination??
It is possible that God; seeing the end to the beginning knows in what we percieve to be the past.
Child... all men sin. All sin is punished with eternal torment.
God had mercy on SOME. That is His right. You complain that
God did not have mercy on ALL. That is just hilarious.
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@@wisevirgin3405 yes... But some of us aren't born into fortunate circumstances like a proper church to keep us stable in our relationship with GOD......
stop being so judgemental.... You act like you know whos gonna make it and whos not.......
Your being offensive.....
It comes off as pride......
I also think we can choose..... Our own path.....
@@JJ_Jordan0 ... child, the Bible CLEARLY tells us WHO are the saved
(wise virgins) and WHO are the unsaved (foolish virgins) at the "time of the end".
And this is PART of the Gospel... it is the BIBLE that is "judgmental" (not me)
Sorry if the Scriptures "offend" you... maybe you should find a "save zone"
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@@wisevirgin3405 save zone?
I have been trying my whole life to follow GOD :)
It gets hard sometimes tho.....
This is no doubt a hard concept to understand.
I believe that I am Heaven-bound, BUT even if I am not, I will not stop serving the Lord our God.
You mean, God made them deserve condemnation and they sin as predestined without choice. how do they deserve such condemnation? This is pure blasphemy!
"God made them deserve condemnation and they sin as predestined without choice."
Piper never said that, friend.
@From the Futon oh geeze. Ringing the antichrist bell so soon, are we?
My issue with his statement was that he said "God made them deserve condemnation..." which is neither biblical nor reformed.
I have a few questions for whichever of you wants to answer, and I ask this not to stir up contention but because I think we should desire to seek truth.
In the Old Testament, are non-Israelites (specifically those outside of the influence of the nation of Israel themselves) predestined without choice to eternity apart from God (hell)? Do they deserve such condemnation?
Was Esau predestined without choice to eternity apart from God (hell)? Does he deserve such condemnation?
The question we should be asking ourself, friend, is why *any of us at all* are saved, not why some are saved and not others. NONE are worthy. NONE seek after God. We don't seek God and we don't even want to. Only by being born again, which is a work by the Spirit of God (not by man), can we be reconciled to God. It is a work by God, not by men.
Interestingly, you mention that he spent 8 minutes "convuluting in order to obscure it." Nope, he spent the majority of those 8 minutes quoting Scripture. That's as clear and unmuddied an answer as it gets.
@From the Futon it wasn't disingenuous. I'm sorry that you interpreted it as such.. I don't mean to come acrossed as harsh or unloving. I have absolutely zero ill-will toward you. I suppose I get defensive when it comes to John Piper because he is the primary means by which God saved me. That is, of course, no excuse to act unloving toward a brother.
I really do want answers, though. I think these are important questions. Of course, you are by no means obligated to answer them. I'm just posing them because I think they run parallel to the verses John read.
@From the Futon To be fair, you said, "those with brains and ears can distill it into its essence," essentially implying that I have neither a brain nor ears. You then implied that Piper was the antichrist. Those are both greatly provocative, and yet you claim that *I* am the one that doesn't want answers.
@From the Futon Why is that statement such an issue for you if you disbelieve that what Piper says is true in the first place?
Regardless... Let me give an anecdotal example of why Piper saying that is valuable. Think of it what you wish.
I am young and am a very recent convert to Christ. I have a friend that came to faith at around the same time I did. I had no problem believing in the doctrines of grace, as they were what finally opened my eyes to the Gospel in the first place, that my salvation was truly a work of God and not of my own flesh. They were (and are) so sweet and beautiful to me. I tried discussing them with my friend, and she neither understood nor saw them as sweet, so I dropped the conversation. A couple months later, after reading through much of the new testament, we had another, similar, conversation on the doctrines of grace, and after I finished explaining them to her, she nodded her head and essentially responded with, "yeah, what's controversial about that? That sounds like the Gospel to me."
The point is, timing and proper discernment is important. Most believers, after reading more of the Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to shape and mold their hearts, see the doctrine in the Word and respond to it as sweet. The Holy Spirit begins to tear away our previous philosophical suppositions, and we begin to love the truths we encounter in the Word of God.
Piper is advocating against believing it, even if it is true, if it undermines what the person believes about God and His goodness. I believe he is saying this because he assumes one of two things:
1. They will grow up into the doctrine/come to know it on their own (as happened with my friend).
2. He doesn't want it to cause weaker-hearted believers to doubt God or walk away from Him as a result of something relatively small/unrelated to the central, core Gospel message.
Doubts like this....really takes us sooo far away from god....😭😭😭
I know. I am so scared right now that i don't even want to read the bible. :(
@@itsebudesu Mark 16:16 read that verse brother❤️
@@itsebudesu Salvation is like 2 sides of a coin, the first side is to accept Lord Jesus Christ as your savior in your heart, Jesus sacrificed Himself at the cross for your sins and the other side of the coin is to repent on all your sins. Don't be like those christians who accepted Jesus Christ as their savior but still live in sins.
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
- JESUS
3:20 The only nonessential part is Monergism. Although it sounds pious, it denies so much of the Bible that it becomes obvious that it is the element that doesnt fit.
You are revealing the source of this predestination-to-hell doctrine, el verdugo. People who are satisfied to be on the side of the devil, and want to lie about the nature of God, love this doctrine. Before "Saint" Augustine, nobody in Christianity taught this, but the Manichaean Gnostics (of whom Augustine was a member for 9 years, _just before_ he "became a Christian" to be a privileged leader in the newly-adopted, official religion of the Roman empire) did teach it. The Bible says that God would have all men be saved. The Calvinists and the modern-day Gnostics fight the truth of God's saving love towards all people: why? Just anything to tell sinners that it is likely that God doesnt want them saved, when the Bible says just the opposite. Gnostics and Calvinists use the same arguments against God's love, and atheists use them to say that's what our God would be like, if He existed! This is not a coincidence.
@@Mcfirefly2 You get 5 🌟 Amen! Could not agree more.
We have to believe and then God saves us=Synergism. You are right Monergism is not taught in the bible. Sirs what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus -Acts 16:30-31.
The issue I have with this is that it can be boiled down to some sort of a divine lottery. We all buy a ticket but only a few will win. If then others would contest that "Well actually, you can't even buy the ticket unless God first gives you the money..." Then I would liken it to a room full of starving blind people. Acting as God, I would place food in front of the ones I chose even though they are all the same. Now I can say, "look how generous I am." The others die due to their starvation. I didn't force them to die, but since they could not see the food, they died anyways.
If man is totally unable to respond to God without Him first regenerating the man, then man is like a lifeless puppet on a conveyor belt to the furnace. Unless God pulls the strings the puppet cannot respond. Then when the puppet has his strings pulled by the "irresistible grace" he will respond and be saved from the furnace. But how does this glorify the goodness of God? The reformist seems to appeal to the mystery that is God. He gets the credit for saving and being just by punishing the other lifeless puppets who failed to respond, but only because He did not pull their strings. Keeping with this view, why not simply have those that are created perfect and created fallen, short-cut the death of Christ. Christ even said that God could create descendants of Abraham from stones. If He did, He would have made new "Adams" free from sin, since sin is passed from fathers unto their children. Then He would have a literal line of people predestined to eternal life who would freely choose to serve Him.
Another point is if man is elected to salvation unconditionally and the grace of God is irresistible then how did Adam come to sin? Adam was free already from sin with the knowledge and direct experience of God. We as Christians now know that we are not perfect and that our sanctification is a life-long process. We strive to sin less, but we won't ever become sin-less until we have new bodies. Adam was without sin until the fall. He was without corruption, made perfect in the image of God. He still sinned in the end. Does God need to send many to Hell to show His contrasting goodness by saving a few?
Instead I think that another view could be possible. Some are elect and some are brought in. The elect were chosen by God unconditionally but to others they were chosen as they chose Him. I know the objection is that then it's not by grace alone, but I would say that by God's foreknowledge, He knew those who would respond appropriately not only those that He had to override their sin nature. Paul writes in Hebrews 6:4-6 states, “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance..." If it were impossible for an elect to fall away then why say this at all, unless some who are saved are not elect.
Have you read much on Molinism?
The response any good Calvinist would give is either "the elect can't fall away" or perhaps "the elect will not fall away, those who do are not elect". Anyhow, I don't think that passage is talking about salvation at all. I think it is talking about unsaved people who have rejected the gospel after seeing all of that stuff. Ay any rate I don't think it's an obstacle to OSASz from either a Calvinist or non-Calvinist perspective.
But wasn’t Judas predestined?
In a sense, everyone was/is
Christ has given us the answer, in the parable of the weeds.
Mary Kinuthia he’s the sower though we are the helpless seeds that god throws Soverignly
You are correct, the parable of the soils shows the Gospel
of election and the "fruit" of sanctification.
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1. Scripture instructs believers to answer plainly. "we use great plainness of speech" (1 Cor 3:12).
John does not use plainness of speech, but obfuscates repeatedly in a way that indicates deception.
2. No, God does not "predestine" or pre-determine anyone to hell.
3. ANYONE can be saved if they choose to trust in Jesus Christ.
They were predestined for hell because God already knew what their choices would be. Just because God knows what their choices would be does not mean they did not have a choice to do right and be saved. I sometimes already know what choice my family is going to make on certain matters but that doesn't mean I caused them to do that action. Every man is accountable for his own choices. God knowing those choices ahead of time does not make God unjust.
This is one of the best explanations i've heard my dude. I wish everyone to see this. thank you bro
Exactly God is timeless and has already seen our choices and ultimate choice
Spot on Eric.
Excellent!!
This comment doesn't address the main issue, which is why creating such person on the first place. That is the root problem regardless of his/her actions. In other words to be more clear, why God would create someone who He knows it is going to perish in hell in the first place?
I too though of this question. It reminded me of the RC's double predestination take, but by God's Grace I got to a different response. The scripture say that we were bought. So I asked we were bought from where? Well I think we all know that answer. So does God predestine us to hell, I would respond no, you see we are already judged and condemned. But God bought us out from the eternal darkness to eternal light. To me to think that somehow now I am in the middle of choice, it's not biblical - the bible states that we are either with Christ or against Christ, there is not middle ground. The Grace of God is because he saves some, of course He does not have to save anyone, none of us are Holy or Righteous like He is.
It's very difficult...but some are predestined to heaven and most are predestined to hell.... people don't have a choice!
Geez...what a nightmare. It's like the movie "Saw" but way worse.
The bible is spiritually discerned according t itself. The problem is theologians and people who take it literal. The English bible is mistranslated. The idea of a burning hell is pagan. What Yeshua taught about those who choose to not be made spiritually alive was sort term accountablility, remorse over ones actions, sorrow over the bad choices we made, followed by extinction. The word koloisis he used used o mean extinction not torture. Christianity adopted Greco pagan ideas. I have met the holy spirit and witnessed miracles and prophecies come to pass. We need to seek the divine for truth. People misunderstand so much about the bible.
@@brokengirl8619 Sorry to say but the Bible does not speak to an idea of hell, but a literal hell. As the Bible states God Created Hell for the fallen angels, but since we all have sinned we too will have the same destination. Hell is spoken in the OT as well is the septuligent is that one corrupted as well? The problem is that you can't deal with who GOD is. He is a Holy God and none of us are, if it was not for Christ no one would be in heaven. You do like everybody else deny the really to hell because you don't like it. I don't like it either but God is holy and I love that more then a corrupt God. Don't you love a God that is Holy and a God that will judge the wicket? I know is easy to say the English Bible is corrupted but I ask you how do you know what Bible I read , do you think I only know one language. You see your assumption lead no where, but read the bible there are no errors in it.
Nope. God is not predesting us to go to hell but knows who will believe and who won't.
I want to ask a question. In the last sentence (in 7:05) John Piper said:
“The redeemed will know we are saved utterly by grace while deserving hell and the rest will know that they suppressed much knowledge of God’s grace and they deserve to perish.”
So did the ones who “suppressed much knowledge of God’s grace” choose to supress it or that God determines that they suppress it?
And if God is the one who suppressed it, isn’t it also true that the real mastermind behind every person not believing in God and living in sin is ..... God himself (?) Wouldn’t that make God the author of sin?
And you know, in a webpage by Desiring God that Mr.Piper had written for in the past there is an explanation for my question written by Mr.Mathis (which is actually to clarify Mr. Piper’s statements) which i am really not comfortable about that says:
“God does bring sins about, but always for his own good purposes. So in bringing sin to pass he does not himself commit sin. If that argument is sound, then a Reformed doctrine of the sovereignty of God does not imply that God is the author of sin.”
Source: www.desiringgod.org/articles/does-god-author-sin
How can one brings about sin and not sin himself i wonder?
I’m sorry to say this but I honestly sees this as a blatant contradiction in God’s behalf if this were true, and if God can do sin in order to do good, then why can’t i? I wonder if it would be wrong if i were to do it since God is doing it himself, like stealing money from my neighbour to feed poor people for example? And if so what difference would it be between what i did and what Saul did in 1 Samuel 13 (morally speaking since we both did a sin in order to do good in the end as Saul really just wants Israel to beat Philistine which is what God also wants), but it says there that God is not pleased by it so clearly that act is not good in God’s eye and surely He is not a hypocrite (which said to someone not to do something but do it himself) since Christ said in Matthew 7 verse 5:
“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye”
PS: To whoever reading this. This is not meant to offend anyone in any way. I respect anyone who preaches the Gospel and i certainly have massive respect for Mr.Piper for preaching to the lost. But still, i saw something that i just can’t agree on. God bless you.
I cant agree on it either, not only does it try to say no one has free will, but it makes God sound like a kid on an ant hill with a magnifying glass. I know I cannot wrap my finite mind around the way God works, but the idea that the father is the author of sin just sounds way off and blasphemous. If the father is love, then how does that show love, making someone sin and creating them for hell just to show how magnificent he is.. it paints the father in a VERY bad light and we all know the Father is just, holy, and good, and love, not what piper paints the father to be.
How about if we assume that Mr. Piper is wrong about asserting that God is bipolar or a psychopath.
@@JewessChrstnMystic God bless you ...
God, in any way, isn't responsible for people going to hell. People loved darkness than light. We all are on our way to hell because we chose it over the light. But God, out of HIs mercy, CHOSE to pick up some and transfer them from darkness to light. Those are the elect. So did God predestine people to go to hell? YES, he predestined that sinners will go to hell. Did he predestine for you to be a sinner? absolutely not. We are the ones who chose to be sinners. And God punishes sinners in hell. But again, God showed mercy and chose to save some, when He actually isn't obligated to do so.
12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned- 13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. Romans 5
So we know that sin came from Adam which is consequence of free will God is all powerfull so he must have allowed that to happen otherwise there is no free will. God is in infinite dimention. We know this because GOd created time space and matter So he see and knows everything that every person will ever do on earth. So my question is does God need to wait for something to happen on earth in time or because he already sees the outcome he can make the judgment to include a persons name to the tree of life or not ? I think its the latter So when we say its predestined i agree but on the basis of a person free will The predestination we do not know this because we are bound by time but God is not so he can make that call and we have to trust him on that Today many people are presented with the Gospel and they still choose to disbelieve Its on them not on God
After learning about predestination, I kept getting a fear of not actually being saved even though I proclaimed Jesus as my savior I don't know why. I need prayer as I have never questioned my salvation before, but now I'm for some reason like I might say that I'm saved but might not be the cause of my predestination. I don't know if it makes sense but that is how I feel.
You should check out Paul Washer on assurance of Salvation. Blessings to you.
What I learned so far as a young christian is that if one is truly saved, it's not that sin isn't gone forever. No, no, no, true christians sin still, but if they are really saved, they start actively hating sin with all its being and feel at least some sort of discomfort when they sin again/realize they've sinned again. Like, if you've lashed out at someone, you know you're saved when you tell them that you're sorry and really feel the weight of what you did. Other times tho, repentance of a sin isn't perfect, so you may feel justified in lashing out in your heart, but you'd know that what you did was wrong in your head. Paul Washer says that just like your faith, your ability to repent truly grows too. So don't be discouraged for the times when you don't feel the right feelings :) I myself struggle with discouragement, but with Jesus, we can do it! He'll be with us all the way.
To come to Piper's viewpoint on this topic, one must approach each of these passages with unvalidated presuppositions. I grieve for those that follow him, for they are ignorant of God's love and grace for all mankind! Piper is no dummy, but he does not understand the God of the bible and i fear, is causing many to be repulsed by Him!
"Don't belive it even if it's true."? Man if you have to make statements like this to justify your beliefs to others then I REALLY have to question whether or not YOU actually belive it.
William Lincoln I understand what he’s trying to say. He’s not saying don’t believe the truth he’s simply saying that if you’re gonna believe something make sure it’s biblical
We have to admit the reality that not everyone has the privilege of holding two truths at the same time, because of how limited our cognitive ability is compared to God's. Some people cannot have peace with both 'God predestined some to hell' and 'God is just' hence pastor John tells us we should sacrifice the first truth if we cannot reconcile both of them in our hearts.
@@williamnathanael412 We should not sacrifice any truth at all, for all truth is a reflection of our God and all Scripture has a purpose. I believe it would be better for God to subdue our hearts and understandings as well as enlighten our minds to believe all His word teaches with a childlike faith (but mature understanding).
Even he understands it's bullshit and nonsensical but expects people to ignore it anyways.
What say the scriptures
Some for honour
Some for dishonour
2:04 How greatly I appreciate this part❤️💔❤️
,.**-This is a really bad apologetics video, it doesn't answer why God creates people that God knows will reject him.
Is he forced to create all humans even the ones that go to hell. if not why not create only those who go to heaven?
Free will is not a solution because in heaven we will have free will and there will be no sin please help.
@@fernandounda3681 Here’s some things to consider: God is a Father. And He loves all His children..even those who will ultimately reject Him. Even earthly parents who’s children no longer speak to them, whatever the reason may be, don’t regret their children being born. They may be grieved or hurt but typically they wouldn’t wish their children didn’t exist. They delighted in their children.. even if they only got to enjoy them for a short time. God isn’t “forced” to do anything. He created every person because He delights in them.
Second, just because someone will ultimately reject Christ doesn’t mean they can’t still be used by God for His purposes. God can use someone who rejected Him to reach others who _will_ ultimately accept Christ: like a young man seeing his friend or brother go to jail may decide he doesn’t want that kind of life and instead chooses to give his life to God.
Free will is the *only* solution. If we didn’t have free will, we’d be robots. God doesn’t _want_ robots; He wants a family; People who will love Him of their own free will. No one wants to be forced into a relationship.. that’s not true love. Keep asking Him questions and keep seeking Him :)
The only thing you can do is hope you’re in the elect. Otherwise you are screwed.
Note that large portions of Christianity don’t see eye to eye on this doctrine.