Regarding the date of the picture of the old Odeon, the film showing is 'A fist full of Dollars'; The film came out in mid 1967, so the photograph must date from around then.
Great video - loved the old photographs and your detailed commentary. So sad those old streets and buildings were demolished. The area had so much more character then.
Why do we have to have tower blocks. This is not America. We are only a small island. Look at the disaster that happened to Grenfell Tower block. All this was caused because no one wanted to spend money on the Tower block eg sprinkling system. Also they knew the cladding was highly flammable but bought it because it wasn't too expensive. We do NOT want another accident to happen like this again!!!
I got an email containing a very interesting comment by Kokiri, but can't find it on here. That sometimes happens, don't know why. Thank you Kokiri for your comment, which I've copied here:- I've lived in Norwich for most of my life, I turn 25 this year. I've always known this building to be called Sovereign house, as apposed to a stationary office In my teen years I remember, being young and stupid enough to think sneaking into this building with some friends was a good idea We made it Inside by climbing into one of the smashed out windows which was only loosely covered by a white sign that says "to let" on it A sign, of which is still there. To reach this window, we gingerly walked across what was a 20ft+ drop above solid concrete. When we were inside there was alot of things I think you might find interesting, and it's worth pointing out that alot of homeless people actually live in this building on particularly cold nights. Firstly alot of old paper work is the main things that's everywhere, alot of the old staff photos, staff lists, administration work is all left there laying around the floor. The floors themselves are somewhat caved in by rain damage, especially on the third floor where it's very likely you'd fall through if you didn't know the building well (and this was 10 years ago, so it's likely worse now) But the main entrance is a sort of huge hallway with stairs in 3 different directions, I remember thinking it was odd that this area was absolutely covered in dog biscuits. Entire packs just scattered around everywhere, Upon closer inspection you would find smashed out doors, walls and windows. We also found blank shotgun shells. After doing some digging on why this would be so close to what is still a busy commercial hub Apparently the police use this site to train armed response units, aswell as K-9 squads. If they are to this day, I'd be very surprised at the sheer state of the building now. Some of the stand out features of this building is old dark boards in what was likely a staff room, scenes of where people have had some sort of rave or party and about a decades worth of people breaking ins litter. What annoys me most about this building still being there, is that everytime we've heard of a new project being funded or being proposed. It gets blocked by people complaining that the building is part of "Norwich's sky line" or that anything else would ruin the ancient aesthetic of Norwich. This building is a risk to people's health, it attracts stupid young people like I once was, and could one day collapse in certain areas that pose a risk to everything nearby. Next time you see a survey or a council meeting on the topic of this building, please vote to take any action that would see the revamping or simple removal of this site. let's get this building out of the loophole it seems to have found itself In!
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich really enjoyed your old record store video too as I have been a massive collector of vinyl for decades and probably shopped at most of the old stores from years past
Fantastic thanks for making this. My Grandmother lived in this area 1920s - 1940s and told me lots about it. Broke her heart when the built Anglia Square.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich I've always been interested in all areas of Norwich history, I have books, vids, DVDs. I even did my own dashcam vid through Norwich a few years ago which is on RUclips, alot has changed in just a few years!
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich So do I, as my family have been here since the 1700s I often see old photos and think thats the Norwich my family knew and went about their daily business, what they had seen. Electricity, running water, 1st Tram, 1st Motor car, flushing toilet, 1st film. ect there is a series of books called "Norwich now & Then" and "Past & Present" which I found very interesting, think they are by Neil Story.
This brought back some memories. I lived at 133 St Georges Street, which was next door but one from the Duke of Sussex pub. Saturday morning pictures was for the kids at the old Odeon when I paid my 6pence to enjoy a cowboy film, after which I was Tom Mix or Gene Autrey for the next couple of hours. The Shuttles was my Fathers local and Charles Dix is where my Uncle worked. All, sadly, now gone. Next to Charles Dix was the tobacconist which old Mr and Mrs Roe kept. I still have some of the foreign coins they gave me which they said they had been "diddled" with over the years. Happy days.
I came to Norwich in 1954 as a child. It was at that time still very warworn either because of existing bomb damage or lack of investment in period building stock. The potential of new developments gave rise to considerable excitement and the sentiments of Dirty Old Town were sung all over Britain. In a short space of time Norwich developed the Inner Ring Road, St Stephen’s Street, Heartsease, Vauxhall Street Housing, the Glass Tower and Norwich Union building All Saints Green and Sovereign Securities Anglia Square development. Additionally, there was the new Public Library and St Andrews multi-storey car park plus the one at Malthouse. The Anglia Square development was done to a price, so many features and facilities but only so much to spend. The anchor was the Stationery Office as The Square never really took off commercially and when the Stationery Office closed the whole edifice struggled financially. As a development it was typical of the structures of its day in both Norwich and elsewhere but was always a difficult aesthetic to like!
Thanks Glyn, that's a great and evocative comment, especially the reference to Dirty Old Town! There are lots of emotions about Anglia Square as evidenced here and on the Facebook posts. I was back there today, and have to say it looks a blot on the landscape to me!
Glyn, wow, thank you for this information. I wondered when the "old" new library was built. I spent many hours there. I was so sad when I learned it had burned down. Anglia Square always seemed like an eyesore to me in an otherwise lovely city. I never enjoyed going there, it seemed so out of place. Cheers.
@@thisorthat7626 The library was designed by City Architect David Percival if memory is correct and won a national award. There was huge criticism when it caught fire as the fire station was opposite and nobody noticed! A member of the public had to ring in! In truth such castigation was probably a little unfair. Norwich between the sixties and the 80’s was subject to a number of fires and explosions which raised eyebrows as to their convenience. In particular Tony’s Place in Exchange Street. This was to be an insurance job and the “ Hookies “ who torched it got it badly wrong. Having worked from bottom to top of the building soaking it in petrol they struck the match. Hmmm! The building, next to Thorn’s, landed in the street and Jarrolds and various other adjacent premises. It took about a week before the street was back in use and that is why, folks, the building next to Thorns is truncated to this day. I remember passing it on the way to work next day it was like an illustration from WWII. In the County arson was a popular pastime with old structures that planning consent could not be obtained on but insurance companies grew wise and there were some prosecutions. Norwich’s great problem post war was its inability to decide its vision and hold it. The traffic plan changed in major form every 5 years, so much so there was a published book about A4 size, with them all in from 1946 to about 1960. Each change affected the development of the centre and its periphery substantially which is why there are so many odd developments from that era. I have lived in the County for many years now and hardly recognise much of it. I cannot imagine being a small boy on a bicycle again and cycling around and across the City in today’s traffic. Currently Tombland is being redeveloped; gentrified would be a better description except it is for the benefit of tourism. With that thought I will leave you!
@@glynluff2595 Thank you for such detailed information. I didn't know about all the arson going on though I had seen a lot of changes over the decades. My last visit was in 2015 and things had changed a lot since my previous visits. I hope to get back for a long visit this year once travel is opened up again. There are so many places I want to see and photograph. Cheers.
On a side-track, but my memory having being jogged by the Odeon pictures... do you recall a cinema in what was not much more than a large shed on Nothrumberland Street? It was on the city side between West End St and Dereham Rd. I stumbled in to it when it was derelict in the early 1980s probably. There was still an old projector inside. I think it's still wasteland now, next to an electricity substation - can't remember as I last walked past it a few months ago.
Interesting video. I've lived in Norwich most of my life (now 69) and remember going to the old Odeon. I've always heard Botolph pronounced as Bot-olph (bot as in robot), rather than Bo-tolph.
really enjoy your videos and the laid back style and nice music in the background but not overpowering. Please keep making videos if possible they are so interesting
Yes I do to. Norwich has had much unecsesarry destruction of its buildings and streets, especially pubs like the Bell , that was bloody horrific what happened to it. Would be a tourist attraction today instead it’s a weatherspoons How Sad..... Humans will never learn by their mistakes.
I went to see the thunderbirds film at the Odeon in the sixties. Brutalist is an understatement after the demolition of businesses and homes. I flew my drone over part of this area. Its on my channel. You can see vegetation growing in the cracks in the roof! Fantastic information and video from you as usual. 👍 3D
Hi used to live on Botolph Street, after the war started my fathers fishing tackle shop which I think was number 39 and called H.Hardingham was closed and we moved to Thorpe ST. Andrews, I never seem able to get a look at what it used to look like, from memory when I went there in 1969 I thought it was still there, next to Valoris fish and chip shop, as I have lived in Australia since 1960 I could be off with the number. Do you have any pictures of further up Botolph Street on right hand side than you actually put in the video?
When I made this video, some 18 months ago, I didn't know about the Picture Norfolk archive. I've just looked at that in connection with your question, and although I can't find anything specific, you may recognise something. Google "Picture Norfolk" and search for "Botolph Street Norwich". Good luck!
Mmm, I just knew before watching that this was gonna attract all the snobs of Norwich in the comments, just like it does under any Anglia Square article on the Evening News website. It is a crying shame we lost some beautiful buildings - and thanks John for compiling the pictures & details. I can admire the stark, imposing and brutal charm in brutalist structures. Until only quite recently there was a Polish artist called Jerzy who had his studio a few doors up from Epic; he had taken some wonderful shots of the Hollywood cinema. We have a couple of his pieces hanging on our walls, though not of the square or cinema. I've lived in the area for over a decade now and have seen the effects of gentrification filter out to my streets, losing a few pubs in the process, but also reviving a few others and creating great cafes etc along the way. But I welcome the rag-tag bunch of 'characters' that gather around Anglia Square, the flyover and Magdalen St; they're certainly not people I look down my nose at and you usually find those that sneer at a mere mention of the area tend never to frequent it anyway. Having seen this video and read these comments, I can though appreciate the sense of loss from those old enough to remember it before great buildings were demolished. But I don't count myself as one of the "backwards people" in showing any sort of resistance to letting developers run riot with colossal schemes and it's not for the puzzling reasons some commenters have claimed. Some opinions will never budge, but suggestion it's the worst the city (as a whole, beyond the centre) has to offer, is glossing over plenty of other rough & ready spots in the surrounding neighbourhoods. Infamous, perhaps, is more accurate.
Thank you very much for such a detailed and balanced comment. There's no doubt that there is a lot of affection for Anglia Square which you e reflected very well. You might like to see my videos about Magdalen Street and Under the Flyover if you haven't already. Also in February I will have one about Calvert Street, which used to run under the stationery office.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich yes, the flyover, mag st east & west & colegate videos are all lined up in my watch later playlist and I'll look out for the new one on top, thanks.
My Grandad often talks about how his parents and Grandparents lived on and around St George's Road, which is behind the Stationary offices. I believe the bricks from the original Road are still there. We also had distant relatives live at Felmongers yard, which partially suffered demolition when the flyover was built. I'm led to believe that the poverty on this area was awful. Always look forward to your videos John. Have you considered one about the yards of Norwich?
Thanks for your kind comment Chris. Yes, St George's Street ran all the way from the city centre, near St Andrew's hall to the first Odeon cinema. I have considered doing one on the Yards, but at the moment they are tending to crop up in other videos about streets, like St Stephen's.
Thank you so much it was very interesting. I hope the planners get it right this time and build something that is pleasing for every body. hopefully no tower block.
All very interesting. I actually have the Royal 1938 book showing my Granddad Charles Watling, Lord Mayor of Norwich, accompanying the King & Queen opening the City Hall.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich I can't remember, to be honest. I do remember the bus going down Magdalen Street into the city early on in our time at school and seeing a pub with a sign saying it was a "freehouse" and thought it meant the beer was free. I can vaguely remember the flyover being built, but that is about all.
I wonder if it's identifiable from any of the pictures in the video. I'll try and find out where it was. I can't recall seeing it mentioned in my research.
Sorry John, it was 1851 not 1841. The Census shows Jeremiah Wells and His Wife Martha Ann nee Elvin and their two daughters Martha Ann aged 3 years and Mary Ann aged 17 months all Living in Cat & Fiddle Yard Botolph St, He was a Labourer, they had just moved into the City from Wymondham
Hi Chris, this link showsa Cat and Fiddle pub, on Magdalen Street, which is very close to Botolph Street. Not sure if there's a connection. historyofnorfolk.com/norwich/cat-and-fiddle-history/
Great video! I was at UEA during the 70s and at the time I thought that Anglia Square was an abomination - especially the Government Stationery Office - it looks even worse now. The architects' drawings for future developments you showed look absolutely horrible too. Development of the site is a potentially lost opportunity - couldn't Norwich do with something more pleasing and fitting to an attractive, historic and self-proclaimed 'fine' city???
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich someone mentioned it once, I've never checked it, I just believed them as they said it with such confidence, but it could explain why it's never been torn down
It's a shame there isn't an aerial map of Norwich taken way before Anglia Square was built. I would love to see what Botolph Street and the area of what is now occupied by Anglia Square since the 1970s would've looked like even as far back as the Second World War or even the 1950s and 1960s.
It's a shame that the multi storey car park is now out of use. It used to cost £2.70 a day to park there back in 2009, which was great value for money. Nevertheless, I can't believe that it's taking so long to redevelop the area! I used to think that Sovereign House would make a great apartment block with all that glass but I now think that houses are what's needed, not flats. There's perhaps will be less demand for shops bar the odd newsagent.
Yes it was definitely the go-to car park if you were in the city for any length of time. I can't imagine when the area is eventually redeveloped that it's remembered with any great affection.
The most depressing area of Norwich. What a shame they demolished the Odeon with its Art Deco facade and interior just to build ugly, nondescript buildings with absolutely no character. Thanks for another interesting video.
Interestingly I've read in recent days that Nottingham is considering replacing a similar shopping centre with the original layout of lanes. That could be a very interesting experiment.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich Yea, they should spend money doing that instead of building yet another 'modernisation' - Nottingham leading the way on that score ! The building shown with the sloping glass front, sorry I forget the name, a print press ? These buildings need to be revived, rebuilt and recreated as they were,. It is NOT that expensive, it has been done in places like Warsaw, where they rebuilt the core of the old town
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich Yea, also City Hall people or people who know the Planning lot, some one must know this is possible or even mooted - so maybe someone with some influence can get in the mix and demonstrate it is nt a nutty idea and been done in Europe - I think even, the little section further up Magdalen, on the river at Quayside, is an example of what is possible - what a great little lane area that could be
@@junctionfilms6348 coincidentally I sat in Anglia Square with a coffee today and thought how said it all looked. The empty buildings surrounding the square, the car park, everything. In my mind's eye I visualised a recreated version of Botolph Street running through it. It would be different to the original, but what a great idea it might be.
I work in anglia square, its a dump & the sooner its pulled the better for eveyone. When it rains all day the whole place leaks for 3 days after. Ask anyone lives or work around the square want done away with, most people who want to remain live miles away. Plus its rat invested.
Interesting how the old buildings that were demolished were probably more than 100 years old, but looked a lot better than Anglia Square at 50 years old. The brutalist style did not age well.
I grew up on Magdalen street From 1957 onwards. What a disaster. Brutalist was Brutal. How to destroy an amazing medieval part of Norwich and then abandon it. Shame is all l can say. Build no more monstrosities, turn the area into a memorial park for past mistakes.
@@geoffpoole483 I'm no expert on this architectural style, but I don't like Anglia Square. I think the style may also result in listed status which can cause its own issues.
What a bloody mess Norwich Council made in allowing a area once full of lovely old buildings all of which could have been restored. The architects should have been shot for such a hideous creation and to add insult to injury they put a motorway flyover in for good measure . The authorities have no soul. They wanted to knock down Elm Hill remember. The excuse always is to modernise and accommodate increased traffic , Now they are pedestrianizing most of Norwich and going over budget yet again.. Is it too much to hope the views of the locals will be listened to when they knock down Anglia square along with that eyesore the Stationery Office. Please give us something in keeping with what was once a city to be proud of.
Very interesting John, as I did not know too much about this area
Thank you - seems like the area will soon be redeveloped again.
Regarding the date of the picture of the old Odeon, the film showing is 'A fist full of Dollars'; The film came out in mid 1967, so the photograph must date from around then.
Thanks very much for adding that detail. That picture was therefore towards the end of Botolph Street's life.👍
Great video - loved the old photographs and your detailed commentary. So sad those old streets and buildings were demolished. The area had so much more character then.
Thank you. Do you have any old streets in the USA?
Why do we have to have tower blocks. This is not America. We are only a small island. Look at the disaster that happened to Grenfell Tower block. All this was caused because no one wanted to spend money on the Tower block eg sprinkling system. Also they knew the cladding was highly flammable but bought it because it wasn't too expensive. We do NOT want another accident to happen like this again!!!
I got an email containing a very interesting comment by Kokiri, but can't find it on here. That sometimes happens, don't know why. Thank you Kokiri for your comment, which I've copied here:- I've lived in Norwich for most of my life, I turn 25 this year. I've always known this building to be called Sovereign house, as apposed to a stationary office In my teen years I remember, being young and stupid enough to think sneaking into this building with some friends was a good idea We made it Inside by climbing into one of the smashed out windows which was only loosely covered by a white sign that says "to let" on it A sign, of which is still there. To reach this window, we gingerly walked across what was a 20ft+ drop above solid concrete. When we were inside there was alot of things I think you might find interesting, and it's worth pointing out that alot of homeless people actually live in this building on particularly cold nights. Firstly alot of old paper work is the main things that's everywhere, alot of the old staff photos, staff lists, administration work is all left there laying around the floor. The floors themselves are somewhat caved in by rain damage, especially on the third floor where it's very likely you'd fall through if you didn't know the building well (and this was 10 years ago, so it's likely worse now) But the main entrance is a sort of huge hallway with stairs in 3 different directions, I remember thinking it was odd that this area was absolutely covered in dog biscuits. Entire packs just scattered around everywhere, Upon closer inspection you would find smashed out doors, walls and windows. We also found blank shotgun shells. After doing some digging on why this would be so close to what is still a busy commercial hub Apparently the police use this site to train armed response units, aswell as K-9 squads. If they are to this day, I'd be very surprised at the sheer state of the building now. Some of the stand out features of this building is old dark boards in what was likely a staff room, scenes of where people have had some sort of rave or party and about a decades worth of people breaking ins litter. What annoys me most about this building still being there, is that everytime we've heard of a new project being funded or being proposed. It gets blocked by people complaining that the building is part of "Norwich's sky line" or that anything else would ruin the ancient aesthetic of Norwich. This building is a risk to people's health, it attracts stupid young people like I once was, and could one day collapse in certain areas that pose a risk to everything nearby. Next time you see a survey or a council meeting on the topic of this building, please vote to take any action that would see the revamping or simple removal of this site. let's get this building out of the loophole it seems to have found itself In!
My local area from 1967 to 1986…. Thanks for the memories
Thanks for your comment. I'm glad the video brought back memories.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich really enjoyed your old record store video too as I have been a massive collector of vinyl for decades and probably shopped at most of the old stores from years past
@@DJWerkz thank you, I was probably in those shops with you!
Fantastic thanks for making this. My Grandmother lived in this area 1920s - 1940s and told me lots about it. Broke her heart when the built Anglia Square.
Thank you. I'm glad it means something to you.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich I've always been interested in all areas of Norwich history, I have books, vids, DVDs. I even did my own dashcam vid through Norwich a few years ago which is on RUclips, alot has changed in just a few years!
@@andywalker321 I like the idea of trying to visualise what came before, which is why I'm making these videos.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich So do I, as my family have been here since the 1700s I often see old photos and think thats the Norwich my family knew and went about their daily business, what they had seen. Electricity, running water, 1st Tram, 1st Motor car, flushing toilet, 1st film. ect there is a series of books called "Norwich now & Then" and "Past & Present" which I found very interesting, think they are by Neil Story.
This brought back some memories. I lived at 133 St Georges Street, which was next door but one from the Duke of Sussex pub. Saturday morning pictures was for the kids at the old Odeon when I paid my 6pence to enjoy a cowboy film, after which I was Tom Mix or Gene Autrey for the next couple of hours. The Shuttles was my Fathers local and Charles Dix is where my Uncle worked. All, sadly, now gone. Next to Charles Dix was the tobacconist which old Mr and Mrs Roe kept. I still have some of the foreign coins they gave me which they said they had been "diddled" with over the years. Happy days.
Very interesting memories - thank you for commenting.
Such a lovely video and calm commentary. It has changed a lot. Thank you for making this.
Thank you for your kind comment.
I came to Norwich in 1954 as a child. It was at that time still very warworn either because of existing bomb damage or lack of investment in period building stock. The potential of new developments gave rise to considerable excitement and the sentiments of Dirty Old Town were sung all over Britain. In a short space of time Norwich developed the Inner Ring Road, St Stephen’s Street, Heartsease, Vauxhall Street Housing, the Glass Tower and Norwich Union building All Saints Green and Sovereign Securities Anglia Square development. Additionally, there was the new Public Library and St Andrews multi-storey car park plus the one at Malthouse. The Anglia Square development was done to a price, so many features and facilities but only so much to spend. The anchor was the Stationery Office as The Square never really took off commercially and when the Stationery Office closed the whole edifice struggled financially. As a development it was typical of the structures of its day in both Norwich and elsewhere but was always a difficult aesthetic to like!
Thanks Glyn, that's a great and evocative comment, especially the reference to Dirty Old Town! There are lots of emotions about Anglia Square as evidenced here and on the Facebook posts. I was back there today, and have to say it looks a blot on the landscape to me!
Glyn, wow, thank you for this information. I wondered when the "old" new library was built. I spent many hours there. I was so sad when I learned it had burned down. Anglia Square always seemed like an eyesore to me in an otherwise lovely city. I never enjoyed going there, it seemed so out of place. Cheers.
@@thisorthat7626 The library was designed by City Architect David Percival if memory is correct and won a national award. There was huge criticism when it caught fire as the fire station was opposite and nobody noticed! A member of the public had to ring in! In truth such castigation was probably a little unfair.
Norwich between the sixties and the 80’s was subject to a number of fires and explosions which raised eyebrows as to their convenience. In particular Tony’s Place in Exchange Street. This was to be an insurance job and the “ Hookies “ who torched it got it badly wrong. Having worked from bottom to top of the building soaking it in petrol they struck the match. Hmmm! The building, next to Thorn’s, landed in the street and Jarrolds and various other adjacent premises. It took about a week before the street was back in use and that is why, folks, the building next to Thorns is truncated to this day. I remember passing it on the way to work next day it was like an illustration from WWII.
In the County arson was a popular pastime with old structures that planning consent could not be obtained on but insurance companies grew wise and there were some prosecutions.
Norwich’s great problem post war was its inability to decide its vision and hold it. The traffic plan changed in major form every 5 years, so much so there was a published book about A4 size, with them all in from 1946 to about 1960. Each change affected the development of the centre and its periphery substantially which is why there are so many odd developments from that era.
I have lived in the County for many years now and hardly recognise much of it. I cannot imagine being a small boy on a bicycle again and cycling around and across the City in today’s traffic. Currently Tombland is being redeveloped; gentrified would be a better description except it is for the benefit of tourism. With that thought I will leave you!
@@glynluff2595 Thank you for such detailed information. I didn't know about all the arson going on though I had seen a lot of changes over the decades. My last visit was in 2015 and things had changed a lot since my previous visits. I hope to get back for a long visit this year once travel is opened up again. There are so many places I want to see and photograph. Cheers.
A rare insight into past and present, many thanks for this wonderful video.
Thank you, that's very kind.
Anglia Square! Many happy memories!
Er....possibly! Thanks for your comment :)
Very interesting John as usual.
Thank you Tim.
On a side-track, but my memory having being jogged by the Odeon pictures... do you recall a cinema in what was not much more than a large shed on Nothrumberland Street? It was on the city side between West End St and Dereham Rd. I stumbled in to it when it was derelict in the early 1980s probably. There was still an old projector inside. I think it's still wasteland now, next to an electricity substation - can't remember as I last walked past it a few months ago.
There was one there, yes, and I have a vague feeling it was run by Warmongers who went on to deal in waste paper on Ber Street.
Interesting video. I've lived in Norwich most of my life (now 69) and remember going to the old Odeon. I've always heard Botolph pronounced as Bot-olph (bot as in robot), rather than Bo-tolph.
I have to admit that since making the video I've also heard it pronounced as you've indicated! Glad you enjoyed it though.
+1🤖
really enjoy your videos and the laid back style and nice music in the background but not overpowering. Please keep making videos if possible they are so interesting
Thank you - I intend to!
The interior of the Odoen... wonderful.
oops Odeon
@@007JHS yes, a little different to the current Odeon.
Another top video John. Interesting about the street sign on the music store - Id never noticed that before!
I like finding things like that! Your station suggestion will be my next one.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich I had a walk down by the river yesterday - you can see some of the old platforms behind Go Outdoors!
Fascinating, thank you! It's really hard to make out the old street scape under Anglia Square.
Thank you for commenting, Catherine 👍
I wish Norwich still looked like this
There is a RUclips video showing the inside of Sovereign House stationery office. It looks even worse inside!
Yes I do to. Norwich has had much unecsesarry destruction of its buildings and streets, especially pubs like the Bell , that was bloody horrific what happened to it. Would be a tourist attraction today instead it’s a weatherspoons How Sad..... Humans will never learn by their mistakes.
Great piece of information.
Thank you Fine Pine. 👍
It's amazing how Norwich has changed in such a short time.
and it's still happening!
There is a saying "The ever changing face of Norwich" something is always being demolished, built, or altered!
I went to see the thunderbirds film at the Odeon in the sixties.
Brutalist is an understatement after the demolition of businesses and homes.
I flew my drone over part of this area. Its on my channel. You can see vegetation growing in the cracks in the roof!
Fantastic information and video from you as usual. 👍 3D
Thank you. I'll check out your video.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich the drone was dive bombed by seagulls until I could get to 400ft
@@PaulphotoeyeVideo your video is great, and I'd urge anyone with an interest in the area to watch it.
Hi used to live on Botolph Street, after the war started my fathers fishing tackle shop which I think was number 39 and called H.Hardingham was closed and we moved to Thorpe ST. Andrews, I never seem able to get a look at what it used to look like, from memory when I went there in 1969 I thought it was still there, next to Valoris fish and chip shop, as I have lived in Australia since 1960 I could be off with the number. Do you have any pictures of further up Botolph Street on right hand side than you actually put in the video?
Hi Jean, thanks for commenting. I'll see if I can find anything. If so, I'll add it back here.
When I made this video, some 18 months ago, I didn't know about the Picture Norfolk archive. I've just looked at that in connection with your question, and although I can't find anything specific, you may recognise something. Google "Picture Norfolk" and search for "Botolph Street Norwich". Good luck!
Mmm, I just knew before watching that this was gonna attract all the snobs of Norwich in the comments, just like it does under any Anglia Square article on the Evening News website. It is a crying shame we lost some beautiful buildings - and thanks John for compiling the pictures & details. I can admire the stark, imposing and brutal charm in brutalist structures. Until only quite recently there was a Polish artist called Jerzy who had his studio a few doors up from Epic; he had taken some wonderful shots of the Hollywood cinema. We have a couple of his pieces hanging on our walls, though not of the square or cinema. I've lived in the area for over a decade now and have seen the effects of gentrification filter out to my streets, losing a few pubs in the process, but also reviving a few others and creating great cafes etc along the way. But I welcome the rag-tag bunch of 'characters' that gather around Anglia Square, the flyover and Magdalen St; they're certainly not people I look down my nose at and you usually find those that sneer at a mere mention of the area tend never to frequent it anyway. Having seen this video and read these comments, I can though appreciate the sense of loss from those old enough to remember it before great buildings were demolished. But I don't count myself as one of the "backwards people" in showing any sort of resistance to letting developers run riot with colossal schemes and it's not for the puzzling reasons some commenters have claimed. Some opinions will never budge, but suggestion it's the worst the city (as a whole, beyond the centre) has to offer, is glossing over plenty of other rough & ready spots in the surrounding neighbourhoods. Infamous, perhaps, is more accurate.
Thank you very much for such a detailed and balanced comment. There's no doubt that there is a lot of affection for Anglia Square which you e reflected very well. You might like to see my videos about Magdalen Street and Under the Flyover if you haven't already. Also in February I will have one about Calvert Street, which used to run under the stationery office.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich yes, the flyover, mag st east & west & colegate videos are all lined up in my watch later playlist and I'll look out for the new one on top, thanks.
Well done in putting this together - fascinating insight to what used to be.
I really do hope that that huge tower block will NEVER be built........
Thank you for your comments. The area does need to be redeveloped, but I do agree that tower block is too big.
Another nostalgic video for me John - you even mention the 87 bus - didn’t know you were a Hellesdon boy?
Were you from Hellesdon too?
Oh yes, lived in Hellesdon from 1962 until I went to uni in 1974.
@@martinthirkettle599 we must compare notes!
My Grandad often talks about how his parents and Grandparents lived on and around St George's Road, which is behind the Stationary offices. I believe the bricks from the original Road are still there. We also had distant relatives live at Felmongers yard, which partially suffered demolition when the flyover was built. I'm led to believe that the poverty on this area was awful.
Always look forward to your videos John. Have you considered one about the yards of Norwich?
Thanks for your kind comment Chris. Yes, St George's Street ran all the way from the city centre, near St Andrew's hall to the first Odeon cinema. I have considered doing one on the Yards, but at the moment they are tending to crop up in other videos about streets, like St Stephen's.
Thank you so much it was very interesting. I hope the planners get it right this time and build something that is pleasing for every body. hopefully no tower block.
I agree. I recently saw an old picture which showed you could see the cathedral from St Augustine's if the stationery office wasn't in the way!
brutalist is a good word to describe what replaced building of character.do we progress ?
Certainly any progress regarding the replacement of Anglia Square is as slow and painful as having teeth pulled!
All very interesting. I actually have the Royal 1938 book showing my Granddad Charles Watling, Lord Mayor of Norwich, accompanying the King & Queen opening the City Hall.
That must be a real family treasure.
Great video, John.
Thanks Alan, do you remember the buses going through here?
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich I can't remember, to be honest. I do remember the bus going down Magdalen Street into the city early on in our time at school and seeing a pub with a sign saying it was a "freehouse" and thought it meant the beer was free. I can vaguely remember the flyover being built, but that is about all.
I have always had a passion for Anglia Square. It might be ugly but historic in its own way.
A few people have said similar things. To be fair, most haven't!
My Ancestors lived in Cat & Fiddle Yard in 1851 which was in Botolph St Nch
I wonder if it's identifiable from any of the pictures in the video. I'll try and find out where it was. I can't recall seeing it mentioned in my research.
Sorry John, it was 1851 not 1841. The Census shows Jeremiah Wells and His Wife Martha Ann nee Elvin and their two daughters Martha Ann aged 3 years and Mary Ann aged 17 months all Living in Cat & Fiddle Yard Botolph St, He was a Labourer, they had just moved into the City from Wymondham
Hi Chris, this link showsa Cat and Fiddle pub, on Magdalen Street, which is very close to Botolph Street. Not sure if there's a connection. historyofnorfolk.com/norwich/cat-and-fiddle-history/
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich They are different, I once looked on the 1885 Map
@@chrislambert9435 ok, thanks I'll look again.
Very nice place.
A lot of people wish the area still looked like that. Thanks for commenting.
I don't think I would recognise some parts of Norwich today.
I used to work in St Marys Silk mills as a weaver.
It must have closed years ago.
Thanks Jeremy, that was in Oak Street I believe. I intend to do a project on Oak Street in the future.
Great video! I was at UEA during the 70s and at the time I thought that Anglia Square was an abomination - especially the Government Stationery Office - it looks even worse now. The architects' drawings for future developments you showed look absolutely horrible too. Development of the site is a potentially lost opportunity - couldn't Norwich do with something more pleasing and fitting to an attractive, historic and self-proclaimed 'fine' city???
Sadly as you say it's no better now, with the stationery office abandoned for 30 years! There are people who like the area though. I don't know why!
Seriously? The mid 90's? A giant building like that has been abandoned for that long? Any other city it would have been torn down years ago.
I know. 25 years!
I heard that it's listed, no idea how true that is
@@billysaunders544 I hadn't heard that, but I guess it could be
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich someone mentioned it once, I've never checked it, I just believed them as they said it with such confidence, but it could explain why it's never been torn down
@@billysaunders544 there's no way that dump is a listed building lmao.
It's a shame there isn't an aerial map of Norwich taken way before Anglia Square was built. I would love to see what Botolph Street and the area of what is now occupied by Anglia Square since the 1970s would've looked like even as far back as the Second World War or even the 1950s and 1960s.
Great comment, thank you. This map shows the layout of the original Botolph Street. maps.nls.uk/view/101582864
It's a shame that the multi storey car park is now out of use. It used to cost £2.70 a day to park there back in 2009, which was great value for money. Nevertheless, I can't believe that it's taking so long to redevelop the area!
I used to think that Sovereign House would make a great apartment block with all that glass but I now think that houses are what's needed, not flats.
There's perhaps will be less demand for shops bar the odd newsagent.
Yes it was definitely the go-to car park if you were in the city for any length of time. I can't imagine when the area is eventually redeveloped that it's remembered with any great affection.
The most depressing area of Norwich. What a shame they demolished the Odeon with its Art Deco facade and interior just to build ugly, nondescript buildings with absolutely no character. Thanks for another interesting video.
Thank you, I can't disagree!
One has to ask what the hell were they thinking?
Ironically there are now people that want to preserve the brutalist buildings!
Criminal what was done to that part of the city, the area with the deepest history also
Interestingly I've read in recent days that Nottingham is considering replacing a similar shopping centre with the original layout of lanes. That could be a very interesting experiment.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich Yea, they should spend money doing that instead of building yet another 'modernisation' - Nottingham leading the way on that score !
The building shown with the sloping glass front, sorry I forget the name, a print press ? These buildings need to be revived, rebuilt and recreated as they were,.
It is NOT that expensive, it has been done in places like Warsaw, where they rebuilt the core of the old town
@@junctionfilms6348 I agree, I think it would be a fascinating experiment. Must keep an eye on what happens in Nottingham.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich Yea, also City Hall people or people who know the Planning lot, some one must know this is possible or even mooted - so maybe someone with some influence can get in the mix and demonstrate it is nt a nutty idea and been done in Europe - I think even, the little section further up Magdalen, on the river at Quayside, is an example of what is possible - what a great little lane area that could be
@@junctionfilms6348 coincidentally I sat in Anglia Square with a coffee today and thought how said it all looked. The empty buildings surrounding the square, the car park, everything. In my mind's eye I visualised a recreated version of Botolph Street running through it. It would be different to the original, but what a great idea it might be.
My least favourite building in Norwich, together with County Hall.
I can't disagree!
Very educational
That's a compliment from a legend!
Nice.
I work in anglia square, its a dump & the sooner its pulled the better for eveyone. When it rains all day the whole place leaks for 3 days after. Ask anyone lives or work around the square want done away with, most people who want to remain live miles away. Plus its rat invested.
Thanks for those gory details, which go beyond the general eyesore of the place!
Interesting how the old buildings that were demolished were probably more than 100 years old, but looked a lot better than Anglia Square at 50 years old. The brutalist style did not age well.
It certainly didn't age well here!
We owe the Victorians a huge debt for their building prowess.
I grew up on Magdalen street From 1957 onwards. What a disaster. Brutalist was Brutal. How to destroy an amazing medieval part of Norwich and then abandon it. Shame is all l can say. Build no more monstrosities, turn the area into a memorial park for past mistakes.
Thanks for your comment. I agree with you entirely. Others may not!
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich I don't think "brutalist" architecture succeeded anywhere in the UK; one possible exception is the UEA campus.
@@geoffpoole483 I'm no expert on this architectural style, but I don't like Anglia Square. I think the style may also result in listed status which can cause its own issues.
I cannot believe they still have that dreadful stationary building so hideous ,why don't they just demolish it .
I tend to agree, but I know there are many people who admire it's brutalist appearance. That's lost on me!
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich It's definitely lost on me too!
Funny seeing people walking in and out of the shops with out masks
That's so true 😕
What a bloody mess Norwich Council made in allowing a area once full of lovely old buildings all of which could have been restored. The architects should have been shot for such a hideous creation and to add insult to injury they put a motorway flyover in for good measure . The authorities have no soul. They wanted to knock down Elm Hill remember. The excuse always is to modernise and accommodate increased traffic , Now they are pedestrianizing most of Norwich and going over budget yet again.. Is it too much to hope the views of the locals will be listened to when they knock down Anglia square along with that eyesore the Stationery Office. Please give us something in keeping with what was once a city to be proud of.
I have to agree with you on Anglia square and the stationery office, though some people seem to like it... Thanks for commenting.
Can't wait for that monstrosity to be demolished and cleared away for the new development.
It is ugly, I agree.
And now the whole city is ran by county lines 😂💀
Norwich is a damp, Norfolk and suffolk not a nice place to live.
I can't agree (other than perhaps Anglia square!) but thanks for your comment.
Go live somewhere else then leave Norwich and Norfolk to us that love living here.
There are two types of people; those living in Norfolk and Suffolk, and those wishing they could.
Forgot your medication