1. I never realized how much quicker the Anton can role than the Spitfire. I will remember that now tho. 2. I love forcing an overshoot. I'm amazed--and often overjoyed--at how many VPs only know lead pursuit and when you pull up and roll over the top of them, letting them slide right by, they don't know what happened or what to do now.
Yep, also known as a slip, though far less dramatic in the context of regular aviation. Well...not entirely. I used to fly a very old airplane that had no flaps and enjoyed coming in high on final and then slipping it *_hard_* until I noticed that traffic on a road perpendicular to the runway *just stopped* when they'd see what looked like an aircraft coming right at them, flying sideways 😂 🤣
Yes, I enjoy doing most my landings in the sim with a lot of side slip, to keep my approach speed as high as possible in these dangerous areas... And it's fun to fly sideways 😁
@@NightOwl91 Oh my yes! I remember thinking, when watching your "Oh shit!" video that you made an outstanding wheel landing. Only great landing I'd yet seen in DCS WWII 🤣
Nowhere in Hartmann's book does it mention him rolling his aircraft. His tactics seem to be attack at high speed with an altitude advantage and use that energy to regain altitude again where he could assess the effectiveness of his attack. Then carefully set his aircraft up for a repeat attack if necessary. This looks more a close in dogfight maneuver, Hartmann was against dogfighting declaring it to be risky given the Russian's numerical superiority.
He describes the negative G roll as follows: "Also, I developed different tactics for various conditions, such as always turning into the guns of an approaching enemy, or rolling into a negative G dive forcing him to follow or break off, then rolling out and sometimes reducing airspeed to allow him to over commit." It's true though that he was always trying to avoid dogfights, those were just his last ditch maneuvres.
Nice flying! I love hearing the sound of that engine. 🙂 I’ve been working on the basics of taking off, landing, etc but recently I starrd aerial gunnery training. It was tough at first but I am getting a lot better. I’m working on managing speed, following the enemy and staying within range without overshooting. I’m using a similar technique to avoid overshoots. ]
Alright. Time to set the record straight. It was certainly NOT either a side or forward slip! Slips are done with upposite controls; left rudder/right aileron or visa-versa. What THIS plane was doing is called a Snap roll. It basically a high speed stall/spin. Essentially a horizontal spin as opposed to the typical vertical spin. I've done dozens and dozens of them in aerobatic competition. It's accomplished by pulling the stick smartly straight back hard throwing the wing into a high speed stall. Then simultaneously kicking in right or left rudder. It will go around quicker if you go in the opposite direction of propeller direction due to torque. This is a very quick and rapid maneuver that requires the pilot to be very accurate and mindful of entry speed otherwise catastrophic structural damage can occur. Here is the problem. Few airplanes either today or in the past are structuraly rated for snap roll maneuvers. Including most all WW2 fighters! It does however instantly bleed off airspeed. Any trained aerobatic pilot or fighter pilot knows this maneuver. But few airplanes can perform it safely due to structural safety concerns. It would be a maneuver done in desperation in combat.
Oh..and to perform an Outside Snap roll, you would abruptly PUSH the stick forward as you kicked in hard rudder. Also resulting in a high speed stall and the ensuing spin.
i miss this game.... played it for years,...CFS1,2,3... IL2 Sturmovic... 1946... life got in the way... anywhere to play it still?... tried on Steam, but noone playing multiplayer/furballs... *sigh
The classic BFM axiom Always maneuver in relation to the bandit When they increase altitude then you increase altitude Those enemies didn’t do that, thus they get smoked
I'm sry I can't see any "special maenuvers" other than a roll followed by holding negative pull to hang a bit to make the overshoot. I just looks you have a good feel for the aircraft.... But it doesn't matter - really nice anyways! 😎
that maneuver only really works against 2 d screen players. a pursuer in VR would not lose sight as easily and would be hitting you at 500 yards anyway
His mistake was not to loose sight, but to turn back in after overshooting, thus crossing my nose. If he had just continued the full turn to the left he would have ended up behind me again. So yeah, it's a last ditch maneuvre that only fully works when the other guy makes a mistake. However, it will always make it very difficult for him to hit you at least 😆
Target fixation probably, plus maybe a bit of overconfidence from being in the best maneuvering aircraft. 😄 The anton does rely on opponent either not seeing it or making another mistake, such as here, to be successful
I wouldn't be so sure, Hartmann got all his kills on the Eastern front, where aerial combat happened at low to medium altitudes and almost never higher up like on the Western front. However, anyhow the manoeuvre would work the same higher up, just a bit less dangerous 🙂
I used to fly a lot when young and side slipping was a favourite for losing speed, height and energy when coming into land. . If the pilot behind is over eager they might fly past but to a cool opponent you have just offered them your side to receive a snap burst. I am sure Hartman could use this against inexperienced Russians but against an experienced Mustang ace it might not have gone so well.
Imo it was too early. You want to end up directly behind the enemy, not directly in front of his guns. In this case you allowed him a much better shot @@NightOwl91
@@FlatOutMatt All germans are linked telepathically in a hive like mind. That's why they don't have the capacity for humor, it would overload the entire network.
1. I never realized how much quicker the Anton can role than the Spitfire. I will remember that now tho.
2. I love forcing an overshoot. I'm amazed--and often overjoyed--at how many VPs only know lead pursuit and when you pull up and roll over the top of them, letting them slide right by, they don't know what happened or what to do now.
That was most of the reason for Spitfires having clipped wings
Slightly faster if you turn in the way of the prop rotation for maximum meta. :D
No...OPPOSITE prop rotation!
Seen so many 'ace in a day' vids here, where nobody is doing actual air combat manouevering. So glad to see someone who knows it exists.
Yep, also known as a slip, though far less dramatic in the context of regular aviation. Well...not entirely. I used to fly a very old airplane that had no flaps and enjoyed coming in high on final and then slipping it *_hard_* until I noticed that traffic on a road perpendicular to the runway *just stopped* when they'd see what looked like an aircraft coming right at them, flying sideways 😂 🤣
It’s also a common way for gliders to bleed speed and altitude very quickly
Yes, I enjoy doing most my landings in the sim with a lot of side slip, to keep my approach speed as high as possible in these dangerous areas... And it's fun to fly sideways 😁
@@NightOwl91 Oh my yes! I remember thinking, when watching your "Oh shit!" video that you made an outstanding wheel landing. Only great landing I'd yet seen in DCS WWII 🤣
@@NightOwl91 you mean forward slip, side slips are used for X-Winds, Forward slips are used for altitude lose.
@@sken1399 yes you are right 👍
Nowhere in Hartmann's book does it mention him rolling his aircraft. His tactics seem to be attack at high speed with an altitude advantage and use that energy to regain altitude again where he could assess the effectiveness of his attack. Then carefully set his aircraft up for a repeat attack if necessary. This looks more a close in dogfight maneuver, Hartmann was against dogfighting declaring it to be risky given the Russian's numerical superiority.
He did mention, if someone is behind you, just do anything as violently as possible to get out of his guns - which this example isn't really.
@@bimsbarkas His escape maneuver where he had an enemy on his six was to push the stick fully forward so he would red out and go into negative G dive.
@@gsherlockpush the stick and hard rudder iirc
He describes the negative G roll as follows: "Also, I developed different tactics for various conditions, such as always turning into the guns of an approaching enemy, or rolling into a negative G dive forcing him to follow or break off, then rolling out and sometimes reducing airspeed to allow him to over commit." It's true though that he was always trying to avoid dogfights, those were just his last ditch maneuvres.
Hartman found himself in situations with 3+planes behind him multiple times lol
That was magnificent!
The inner wing guns really help with those short range shots
Nice flying! I love hearing the sound of that engine. 🙂 I’ve been working on the basics of taking off, landing, etc but recently I starrd aerial gunnery training. It was tough at first but I am getting a lot better. I’m working on managing speed, following the enemy and staying within range without overshooting. I’m using a similar technique to avoid overshoots.
]
That was pretty slick.
Can You exactly explain how You perform it? Give right aileron and left rudder? Thx.
It's basically the opposite of a barrel roll. Stick forward and left together with right rudder (or the other way). An excellent last ditch move.
Alright. Time to set the record straight. It was certainly NOT either a side or forward slip! Slips are done with upposite controls; left rudder/right aileron or visa-versa. What THIS plane was doing is called a Snap roll. It basically a high speed stall/spin. Essentially a horizontal spin as opposed to the typical vertical spin. I've done dozens and dozens of them in aerobatic competition. It's accomplished by pulling the stick smartly straight back hard throwing the wing into a high speed stall. Then simultaneously kicking in right or left rudder. It will go around quicker if you go in the opposite direction of propeller direction due to torque. This is a very quick and rapid maneuver that requires the pilot to be very accurate and mindful of entry speed otherwise catastrophic structural damage can occur. Here is the problem. Few airplanes either today or in the past are structuraly rated for snap roll maneuvers. Including most all WW2 fighters! It does however instantly bleed off airspeed. Any trained aerobatic pilot or fighter pilot knows this maneuver. But few airplanes can perform it safely due to structural safety concerns. It would be a maneuver done in desperation in combat.
Oh..and to perform an Outside Snap roll, you would abruptly PUSH the stick forward as you kicked in hard rudder. Also resulting in a high speed stall and the ensuing spin.
Nice flying man, holy crap. I have a hell of a rough time knocking down a Spit with a Dora never mind an Anton.
Thanks for the demonstration
That was absolutely fascinating, and I don't know the first thing about aerial combat. Where in the hell did you learn that???
Really smooth
i miss this game.... played it for years,...CFS1,2,3... IL2 Sturmovic... 1946... life got in the way... anywhere to play it still?... tried on Steam, but noone playing multiplayer/furballs... *sigh
It's DCS World on the 4YA server.
That was great!
When I am on your six with similar speed... you are gone. With any plane
ima try it out, thanks night owl
Finally a good sim and not other War thunder crap...
Well played
The graphics look good. Is this 1940's scenery?
yup...the devs tried to create it as it was in 1944
Why does the cockpit looks so washed out?
I approve... Good form.
Why do people cross back into someone behind them? Happened to you, happened to the one you reversed.
Never turn back INTO someone's guns.
The classic BFM axiom
Always maneuver in relation to the bandit
When they increase altitude then you increase altitude
Those enemies didn’t do that, thus they get smoked
love it!
I'm sry I can't see any "special maenuvers" other than a roll followed by holding negative pull to hang a bit to make the overshoot. I just looks you have a good feel for the aircraft.... But it doesn't matter - really nice anyways! 😎
Just did this on the 4YA server. Ended up in a mid air with a spit.......whoops
Switcho-Oh Change-Oh!
That was bollocks! Talk about easily pleased...the FW-190 sounded like a double decker bus...
lol. I do this everyday in Il-2 Great battles. 😂
That was sexy.
thats a lag roll in p51 terms.
that maneuver only really works against 2 d screen players. a pursuer in VR would not lose sight as easily and would be hitting you at 500 yards anyway
His mistake was not to loose sight, but to turn back in after overshooting, thus crossing my nose. If he had just continued the full turn to the left he would have ended up behind me again. So yeah, it's a last ditch maneuvre that only fully works when the other guy makes a mistake. However, it will always make it very difficult for him to hit you at least 😆
lol he just roll over
not sure why that spitfire allowed himself in your aim, everything before that was great (from you)
Target fixation probably, plus maybe a bit of overconfidence from being in the best maneuvering aircraft. 😄 The anton does rely on opponent either not seeing it or making another mistake, such as here, to be successful
Nice move 🫡
Мустанг на такой высоте не должен быть ввязываться в маневренный бой.
Pretty sure he didn’t do that at 1000’ lol
I wouldn't be so sure, Hartmann got all his kills on the Eastern front, where aerial combat happened at low to medium altitudes and almost never higher up like on the Western front. However, anyhow the manoeuvre would work the same higher up, just a bit less dangerous 🙂
I used to fly a lot when young and side slipping was a favourite for losing speed, height and energy when coming into land. . If the pilot behind is over eager they might fly past but to a cool opponent you have just offered them your side to receive a snap burst. I am sure Hartman could use this against inexperienced Russians but against an experienced Mustang ace it might not have gone so well.
Blasphemy, flying in a Focke Wulf to demonstrate the “Hartmann Maneuver”…
…if you demonstrate anything Hartmann you have to fly a 109 Gustav.
Im still waiting for the hartmann maneuver
It's not Top Gun but a simulator. That's how a hartmann roll to force an overshoot looks like under realistic conditions.
Imo it was too early. You want to end up directly behind the enemy, not directly in front of his guns. In this case you allowed him a much better shot @@NightOwl91
😂😂😂
Я не боевой, но здесь полная хрень. В ближнем на этих скоростях больше шансов столкнутся (таран) чем попасть в цель...
Richtig, du bist kein Krieger.
Love the spit but it's guns are trash. But I can't seem to handle the fw190 at all. Always wants to spin out of control
Horrido!!! 👍
As a german, i can assure you that wasnt a "real" Hartmann maneuver. When done properly, you end up behind the enemy plane
He ended up behind the enemy plane in a firing position.
You have to be German to understand the maneuver? 😂
@@FlatOutMatt All germans are linked telepathically in a hive like mind. That's why they don't have the capacity for humor, it would overload the entire network.
@@FlatOutMattJawohl!
As a German, you shouldn't say you know better about Nazi stuff because you're a German
Graphics look like from 2002
You clearly haven’t played many games from 2002
What a load of BS… where on earth did you get this from???
Да кто назовет свой ник хартман? ))) Разве, что, конченый ))
That was great!