Voigtlander Bessa 11, how good is the Color Heliar lens, real life test
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- After the second snow storm on the 2nd day, I thought I would go out with the Bessa 11 and do a real life test to see how good the Color Heliar lens is, its not technical bench test just a real life scenario of light we will encounter when out and about with this wonderful rangefinder camera and lens combo, watch the video to find out.
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Martin, I’ve watched this video a number of times over the past couple of years, and recently, I was able to buy a Bessa II with Heliar lens in really good, fully-working condition, cased and with accessories, for a very reasonable price. I noticed, however, that when the back is closed, there is slight movement. Before I watched your video, I was not aware that this camera had light seals. On checking them, I found that the light seals need to be replaced, hence the movement in the camera back,so thank you very much for yet another most interesting and informative video which has saved me from wasting time, effort and money. I’ve bought some very expensive Ektachrome 100 which I intend to use in the camera for a particular subject which involves a long and arduous hike for a 74-year-old with worn-out knees, so I’m extremely grateful that you share your knowledge and experience so generously!
Really making me want a bessa ii! Such a beautiful and capable camera
There seem to be a lot fewer of these cameras than you'd expect from production records. Having studied the three models years ago, and having purchased a Bessa II with the Color-Skopar, I'll offer my two reasons for this situation. First, The Bessa II was notorious for the weak strut mechanism supporting the front lens standard, as compared to other cameras of a similar sort. A lot opf them were damaged and discarded. Second, the lenses, all three, have exceptionally high quality and performance. There was a time when the idea of a 6x9 cm fixed lens folder was Blah at best. Many of the Apo-Lanthar lenses were stripped from the Bessa II for use in medium format view cameras. The Color-Heliar seemed to suffer this fate as well. Apart from my own Bessa II, back in the day I acquired a 105mm Color-Skopar which had been pulled from a Bessa II to use in my own view camera. The reason I bought a Bessa II with the Skopar was simply that I could not afford one with the Heliar or Apo-Lanthar. Since that day, those two models have more than tripled in price a collectibles, more than users. Frankly, given the size of the negative produced, IMO there is no practical reason to buy the more expensive models over the Skopar.
Very atmospheric photographs. The Heliar design is from 1900. It was originally based on the symmetrical Cooke Triplet. in 1902 the design was improved and the two outside elements were split and cemented. This made the Heliar, a 5 element in 3 groups design with very good correction, hence Colour Heliar . One ' advantage ' of the Heliar design is the left over spherical aberration that softens the transition from a sharp zone of focus to the next. Therefore, Heliar has a more pleasing ' Bokeh ' than a more technically perfect Tessar design. In 1950 the Colour Heliar was further refined into a 6 element 5 groups design which was good enough to be used on Leica Ms as a ' budget ' alternative.
As for developers, the use of a compensating developer is a good ides for negatives that will be scanned. Any loss of contrast or compression of the tonal range can be corrected digitally post scanning. I use 510 Pyro if need be, but the usual one is Adox Atomal.
Thanks for all that info, and what you have said in my experience is correct about the Heliar design
I'm a 26 yo italian boy and I simply love how this passion brings so many different people together. I was really fascinated by your analysis, and the video has great pace and clarity, good job!
Great review Martin, as always.
Great video! Really enjoying your channel and looking forward to more.
Amazing test mate, thanks a lot!
Excellent work here. Many thanks.
Another very helpful episode, I’m strongly considering buying one.
Thank you Martin, your videos are an absolute treasure trove of practical, no nonsense wisdom.
Very well done and helpful video. Beautiful photos. I have a Bessa ii on the way. It was great to see how much detail they can produce in skilled hands. You have inspired me and given me a high mark to shoot for. Thank you.
Have been enjoying your excellent videos since I discovered them a few weeks ago. Thanks very much.
Your welcome, glad your enjoying them, thank you fir commenting
Thanks again Martin for another quality presentation and for showing us the great results that these vintage cameras can produce.
Thank you and your welcome
Good man Martin! Another fine review...Great photos too! Keep Safe!
Thank you
nice shots! great video!
A young lad would be fortunate to own a Voightlander such as those you covered. My Mom used a Kodak Brownie which was a MF camera, and I understood the basics of 120/620camers. Of course I hoped to be able to afford a REAL camera someday, and so I do. Folders are my favorites and 6x9 is what you want, because size matters and you can crop away unwanted photo, but can't crop it on.
Thank you for sharing your insights
very informative
There are a couple of things I wish someone would touch on. Compare the Heliar Lens to the Skopar Lens and compare this camera to the Super Ikonta C.
pretty awesome carmera. Reall appreciate your careful introduction
Thanks for this great video,i own a bessa ii heliar version,but it takes me a lot of time to adjust the rangefinder and the slow gear.It seems that the problem of rangefinder not accurate is quite common in this kind of folding cameras.But when it was adjusted correctly,the result turns out great.
And what i like about this camera is that it is one of the most compact 69 camera to take slide films.
Excellent, Thanks.
great images and video.
Your welcome
Very interesting and fun to listen. Merci
awesome video Martin cheers. I have a couple of folders the Ikonta M, and my preferred Ferrania Falco 2 6x9, lovely camera, lacking a bit optically though. I'm currently on the trail of a bessa 2 got a feeling the price will blow out of my range pretty quick. Nowt ventured nowt gained mate.
In many years, i had two different Bessa II Color Heliar with red/violet treatment on lens. Various flaws, both in the machine and also in certain aspects of the image, but....what a wonderfully natural rendition image in this lens ! Supernatural, super, overreal,hyperrealistic....not the sharpening nor the contrast or bokeh, singularly, but results are incredible plastic/natural aspect....
Many thanks for this competent and informative camera and lens test! Very interesting for me as a user of other German folding camera lines: Agfa and Ikonta 6x6 and 6x9 folders fitted with Solinar and Tessar lenses. I like the calm, genuine, and pragmatric presentations of your videos very much!!
Thank you , appreciate your comment
The Ensign 6 X 8,5 folders of the 1950's with interior reducing mask attached for 6 X 6, were fitted with Ross lenses, these are crisp and sharper than Tessars.
Great shots and just my kind of photography.I have one of the Bessa RF transition models made after the war, about 1948 I think and these had the first coated Heliars, but still in black enamel and so cool, just before switching to chrome.I can get very sharp prints in diluted Rodinal.
Try FX 39 originally British, now made by Adox. This is a compensating developer designed for the new film emulsions, and produces extremely sharp pictures. Shelf life has been improved.
Wow Martin. That was some decent content and fun to watch. Thank you for sharing your experience! Lately I'm become more and more interested in trying Pyrocat HD, especially if I see such good results :)
Give it a try, its a superb all round developer
@@martinhensonphotography will do 👍 Does it well with Ilford‘s Deltas?
I really enjoyed your review. This model is also available with a Color skopar lens which has the successful Tessar design. I have the Voigtlander Perkeo 6x6 with the color skopar, it’s an excellent performer, though I think the Heliar lens probably has the edge.
The Color Skopar is a great lens, although my comparison, coated or uncoated Heliar lens might to some dictate the better camera to have dependent on there type of photography
, thanks
Great shots Martin, I hope you got some snowy shots the other day.
Hi Will, didn't get chance to get out that day, I am sure we will get more though, Thanks
@@martinhensonphotography oh that's a shame, I was hoping for some more this weekend but that looks like it wont happen now!
Nice video! I just picked one up the other day. Should have it in a couple of weeks. I'll do a review on my channel as well.
One warning about CLA'd on ebay. Some sellers have overdone it and you end up having to CLA them again.
Nearly every camera I have bought through eBay has had to have something done with it to work correctly, lots who sell on eBay have no idea about cameras and are often bought at car boot sales etc , I try only to use sellers that only sell cameras and have 100 percent feedback, even then it’s all a risky business lol
@@martinhensonphotography Yes. I usually try to check if there are videos online on how to fix camera X before I buy one. Difficult and expensive to get cameras serviced where I live so I might as well learn to do it myself.
We do not need a colour corrected Heliar for shooting B&W. film.
I am sure a "simple" Heliar will make great colour photos as well.
The Heliar is a four lens triplet, almost the same as aTessar.
A camera collector said the Voigtländer 6x9 with the Apo Lanthar
was a great camera for color in 1970; showing one tiny print.
Love this video, Martin, thanks! I've been watching for one of these cameras for awhile, but it seems that the only version available for sale nowadays is the Bessa II w/Color Skopar. Any opinions on how the "lesser" Skopar might compare to the Heliar?
The Skopar is excellent, you will not be disappointed with one, some people prefer it to the Heliar and save a bob or two in the process, I bought both my Bess cameras with Heliar lens when prices were low, they have gone up so much now, go for the Skopar, , thanks
Very interesting video. I was wondering if you know of any reliable technicians in the UK that work on folders? I have a very nice Balda Super Baldax that has a small problem.
Thank you so much for this video. Thanks to you I went and spluuuurged on one of these. It was a hefty investment (to get a seemingly good condition one), and I have only put 1 roll through it (just casual family portraits), but I was actually gobsmacked. Maybe it is cause I have never shot 6x9 before, but even on low res scans, there was a special something to the look. A bit of glow from the old lens but incredible amounts of detail. I really liked the result, definitely look forward to using it more! Aside: Do you know of any L-brackets that fit folders like this one well? It would be nice to rotate it easily if I ever use a tripod
If you never use a tripod don't try landscapes as you'll never get the depth you want. Nowadays we use light weight carbon tripods, mounted with a ball head. Panning is easy. Keep carbon tripods out of seawater.
Great video. I just purchased one and the dial in the back to move a cover for the red window is turning back and forth about 45 degrees but something is preventing the cover arm to move far enough so it covers the red window. Have you run into this problem before? The film back plate is in the way so I can't see what is going on and not sure how to remove the back plate to check.
Those Color Helier lenses are unique. Producing smooth micro contrast, they certainly flatter skin texture. Heh, I’m a lefty and it’s perfect for me. If Voigtlander had only given the camera a metered film advance... The Color Scopar is very crisp.
Thanks, I have a uncoated Skopar and it is very good, metered film advance ?? not sure your meaning
@@martinhensonphotography What I was trying to say is the camera could be improved if the film were advanced in predetermined amounts, ie. one frame, using a mechanical metering and not needing the red windows. Sorry. Thank you for replying, Martin.
@@jamesjacocks6221 yes I see what your saying, I agree, that's why I am always saying about after taking a shot always wind to the next frame straight away to avoid double exposure, the problem then is, you put the camera away for a while with a half exposed roll and cant remember if you have exposed that frame, so a wind lock after each exposure would have been preferable, totally agree with you
Thank you for the wonderful video! I got one of these cameras a few years ago and I haven’t used it yet! Your video has definitely inspired me. On your shots, were you hand-holding the camera?
A mixture really some on the tripod and others not, thanks
Nice and informative video, thanks!! Do you have any informations regarding the apochromatic lanthar version? Thanks.
Sorry no other than it’s veryyyyy expensive
I have Moskva 4 coupled rangefinder with a 110mm f4.5 Industar lens which is sharp, contrasty with beautiful bokey and excellent colour rendition. All shutter speeds are correct. Bought from a camera repairer in The Ukraine who specialises in Kiev and Moskva cameras. £50. I bought a Kiev 6c 6x6 slr with a 90mm 2.8 Vega lens.
I prefer slr cameras to folding bellows cameras.
Both cameras have left handed shutter releases.
I had one a few years ago unfortuanly someone had cocked the shutter before setting the film speed it was jammed and need fixing, a thing you have to remember with Russian cameras, thank you for commenting
Nice shot Martin! Have you ever compared the voigtlander bessa ii and ensign 820?Wondering which is better ;)
Sorry no I haven’t, the heliar lens would take some beating though, thanks
First of all, love your videos. Great, pragmatic style.
I'm considering acquiring a Bessa II with Heliar myself and was wondering if your well-performing Heliar is one of the latter production units. May I ask what is the serial number of your lens?
3173576
@@martinhensonphotography Thank you! It seems that your lens is very close in production date to the one I'm considering (318xxxx) and should be similar. I am sure I'll be happy with that copy as well. Really love how your photos with this lens turned out.
I read recently that Voigtländer improved the Heliar on Bessa II with a new coating and some other things towards the end of the production, which corrected field curvature. The site said that it was one of its worst flaws, forcing to close down the aperture for frame wide sharpness. Looking at your photos at f/8 it doesn't seem like an issue.
@@aleksivalkonen6774 I am sure the site you mention only would have tested one lens of thousands that were produced, I am totally happy with the lens I have and confident you will be to,
Wow these are great images! 🎞
When you take a light meter reading for landscapes like these do you always take the reading directly next to a surface?
I was just wondering what happens when it’s not possible to get close to a surface, how do you still get an accurate reading for highlights etc.
As long as the subject is in the same light as falling on the light meter your good to go, if not then a spot reading from the shadow areas is a good way to work, see my other videos on spot metering, thanks
Gossen produced the Lunasix 3 and Lunasix F, tele attachments for spot metering are available for it. Standard reading is 30 degrees, with clip-on tele attachment the angle is reduced
with a selector to 15 degr. or 7.5 degr. These meters have a scale (which is absent from digital meters), sit on top of the world and are VERY accurate.
Thanks, Martin. Very informative review. Like you, I wear glasses... how difficult was it to compose with that tiny viewfinder?
Its not that bad really, as I said in the video you do get used to it, its not that bad that it would put me of buying one, thanks
In the old days, camera manufacturers also produced an interesting accessory; a viewer which clipped on the finder and enlarged the view. Martin failed to mention this.
Martin, like others have said, very nice presentation. I too would like to own one of these cameras, time will tell. I have a Mamyia C220 now and use to use it for wedding work. However, they are very bulky. Thank you so much. Jim
The Mamiya C 220 is not bulky.
Screw the L-grip underneath the camera.
The C220 with a Sekor 65 mm and 135 is great.
Or 55 mm. 80 mm and 135 mm plus Kodak TRI-X
The Voigtläder is for classic landscapes.
Do some power lifting and enjoy the C 220.
A nice camera but I find the Mamiya Press Rangefinder cameras with the 6X9 back quite nice as well.
Never used one, would it fit in a coat pocket ;-)
@@martinhensonphotography It’s too big. Good non folding camera though.
@@jamesjacocks6221 The press from its history and longevity shows how good it was or is, thanks for commenting
@@martinhensonphotography It would have to be a very large coat.
Hi Martin, just a quick question regarding the Voigtlander Bessa ii and light seals. I have a light leak on mine (just acquired) and whilst I suspect the red window I notice that there are only light seals on one end of the back (red window end) and a strip at the handle end. Is this the correct amount? Grateful for any help. Thanks again for the videos great inspiration.
Yes sounds right, not many seals on this camera which is good , thanks
Martin, what is the availability of coloured filters for a camera like this and how do that mount on the camera?
Red orange yellow there push on filters, sometimes hard to get hold off
Martin-- I c an get the Formula for that Pyro HD -- do you BUY it or make it up from Chemicals ? Also, is the 'Pyro' PYROGALLOL or PYROCACHETIN ?
I get the Raw chemicals from a friend, then mix it , the pyro is PYROCACHETIN
, here's the mixture
Part A
Distilled or Deionised Water (approx 50ºC) 750 ml
Sodium Metabisulphite 10 g
Pyrocatechin 50 g
Phenidone 2.0 g
Potassium Bromide 1.0 g
Distilled or Deionised Water to make 1000 ml
The chemicals for Part A are already pre-mixed
Part B
Distilled Water 750 ml
Potassium Carbonate 750 g
Distilled Water to make 1000ml
@@martinhensonphotography Thanks Martin -- I have only a small amount of Pyrocachetin so will mix only 250 mls -- I was bought an accurate Scientific Balance for Christmas which is very good for small amounts.
@@theoldfilmbloke 250 at 1-1-100 will do quite a few rolls, Peter
I notice that you shoot mainly with Ilford's HP series of film, do you ever shoot with any of the Delta?
I think you get used to a certain film and it’s characteristics, I have used delta films in the past
I may try some in the future. I am trying to get into medium format film. Got a few cameras (Kodak Tourist 1or2 not sure, a Agfa Ansco box camera, and a Kodak Duraflex 4) and I've only shot 2 rolls of film with the Duraflex and haven't had the chance to get them processed as of yet. Cheers! @@martinhensonphotography
What was the film and developer used?
Ilford HP5 developed in Pyrocat HD 1-1-100 dilution, 9.25 on time line !!!, thanks
If the rangefinder is off, is there a way to adjust it yourself?
Yes you can adjust the rangefinder, google it , I’m sure there will be tutorials online
subbed straight away just for the tyke accent. I'm originally from Cas'
Thanks 🙏🏼
Is the CLA of a camera a plus? As long as a list has not been shown of things done during
the CLA; it is all a fake reassurance.
I have seen Leicas and Hasselblads with a CLA done, but with worn out parts, to keep the
CLA costs low. People wanted to buy a safe analogue camera are being scammed.
The spotmeter has become the overrated show off lightmeter for the newbe LF photographer.
People think a one degree and nine measured light value reading is needed for the B&W sheet
film to do an Ansel Adams processing. Do they the same for LF colour positive and negative films?
A few years ago hardly anybody had a Gossen, Minolta, Pentax or Sekonic spotmeter.
sa donne pas vraiment envie … mon Super Ikonta C 530/2 de 1936-37 donne des meilleurs résultats avec une banale Fp4