Voigtlander Bessa RF and Bessa 11 Comparison
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
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In this video, I take a look and compare these two iconic Voigtlander Bessa 6x9 folding rangefinder cameras with sample images at the end of the video.
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Great video. Fun fact: after the war they made a limited run of the prewar model from left over parts for the body, but with the new shutter and coated lenses which would be used in the Bessa II. Best of both cameras in one.
Cracking vid Martin cheers lovely images to boot. I just bought a bessa 2 in NZ got it for around 230 quid which o reckon is a good deal can’t wait to get my hands on it 📷❤️📷
Very nice video comparing the pre-war and post-war Bessas. I have the most common model, the Bessa II with Color-Skopar lens. I bought it in the mid-1980s after seeking a Color-Heilar lens version at a price I could justify at the time, without success. Between the pre-war Bessa RF with uncoated Heilar and post-war Bessa II with Skopar, I would have a close decision to make. I like the better sharpness of the Heilar and the more accurate rangefinder of the Bessa RF, but I prefer the better contrast and lack of flare obtained from the coated lens of the Bessa II. My one regret for either model is the squinty viewfinder, which was a standard, more or less, in all such cameras from that era. The one benefit of this design (flaw) is that Voigtlander adopted a common art deco theme to the appearance of all of its better cameras from the 1950s, both roll film and 35mm, into which a modern, large, bright, viewfinder could not be fitted without disrupting the flowing lines of the camera body. One correction or clarification of the video. Cosina (Japan) is not the successor of Voigtlander, either corporately or as a continuing camera making organization. Voigtlander financially failed in the 1970s and was bought up by Zeiss (Germany). Some of its camera models then in development were taken over by Zeiss and marketed as their own products. (The only modern and practical SLR Zeiss ever sold was one such model.) When Zeiss' camera division failed, the only thing left was the Voigtlander trademark, which some years later was purchased by Cosina, mainly to trade on the Voigtlander reputation from a long vanished past. The Voigtlander name could have as easily been bought by Coca Cola and put on a bottle of sugar water.
A couple more points. My Bessa RFs are both date from the later 1930s and have a turn button between the red windows. This operates a shutter over the windows, so that they can be closed to protect the film. I assume that this was due to the introduction of panchromatic films, which aren’t protected from light by the red windows. Also, the B and T settings on the shutter can be operated by using the trigger on the lens door. There’s no need to use a cable release; just set the time to B or T and depress the trigger.
Thanks so much for your comment. I am getting a Bessa RF -next week for the First time- without the turn button in between the red windows. How do I protect one or both from light? I assume our modern 120 films these days may get fogged via the red windows.
Hi - I put a tab of black electrical or gaffers tape over the red window on my old Kodak camera. I shade the area with my hand when I lift the tape and advance the film to reduce the chance of film fogging.
Great video and i learned the operation from it, thanks very much
Thank you for your thoughts, and sharing your photographs, too.
I would be happy with either of them but like you, the RF is very appealing to me.
I have one of these beauties, and I love shooting 35mm film with adapters because it produces some really nice long pictures. To me it's a new Photography Art form, that eventually will catch on.
yup, a poor man's panerama
Thank you Martin for another thoughtful great presentation and great images to promote these vintage cameras.
I enjoyed the tutorial a lot, thank you for this user proven review!
And the pictures are really good, well done!
Like Martin, I like both models. The RF indeed has the better rangefinder but the II is fine. I use the rangefinders and the distance scales comparatively, double checking distances and referencing the DOF. Some models of the II have two tripod sockets on the bottom but I’m no fan of tripod sockets that aren’t on the Horizontal lens axis. If you use a tri or mono pod you can make a plate with central bushing with the plate attached to the camera where the tripod normally goes. Leave the plate on the tripod. The Heliar and Skopar lenses are quite different and quite good and the uncoated lenses can produce dreamy flair especially when shooting contrajour. Use a hood. The big negs are great to print or scan. I made a simple device which obviates the use of the red window of the Bessa II. Still working on the RF which doesn’t have a geared up film advance. No fan of red windows. The RF is pocketable in a jacket side pocket; just put a light meter with film, filters and film in the opposite to keep the jacket straight. This was a great video. The Bessa rangefinder models were the best folders, overall.
Great stuff Martin...well explained....love the photos! Keep up the great work!
Some great photos with these cameras! Excellent.
A GREAT video Martin !!..I'm hookd on these cameras now,..so much so,..I ahve landed a great Bessa2 on ebay...keep up your video's, as they are greatly appreciated.
They are wonderful folding cameras perhaps the best out there, thanks and enjoy yours
Эти камеры очень интересные. Фогтлендер делал прекрасные решения.
Two beautiful cameras and some wonderful images from them. While I do not have any one of them I do have 2 Voigtlander Bessa 66's.
Its cool to be square.
The pre Bessa and the Bessa "E" aka (RF) have an interesting feature, that when the factory 6 x 4.5 frame converter is used it opens a lock to the second (center) red window to allow half frame counting from the left 6x9 window for half frame shots aka 6 x 4.5
There is a trasition period just after the war,about 1947 when they started using coated lenses on the Bessa E (rf) but before the Bessa ll, without mentioning the fact.I have one of these with Heliar and always wondered about the blue hue of the lens before I realized it was coated.
beautiful cameras. thanks for sharing
Thank you for your informative and very good videos, they are very good along with your beautiful pictures. I have recently bought a Voigtlander Bessa RF with a Helomar 105mm lens from one of my favourite camera stores, Camera Traders in Victoria, B.C., Canada, I’m waiting to have it shipped up to me. I actually was not aware that this camera even existed until I saw it on the store’s website. I started doing some research and came across your RUclips videos. I knew about the Voigtlander Bessa II, as it is a rather legendary camera. It is an expensive camera and often the price is way overinflated due to its popularity. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to spend that amount of money on a Bessa II and then not like it. So I will see how this earlier RF version works for me and if I like it nor not. it was $400 in Canadian currency.
Its a great camera, I like the two viewfinders better then the single coupled viewfinder on the Beass11, I am sure you will enjoy using it
@@martinhensonphotography Thanks, Martin. I'm looking forward to using the Bessa RF.
Nice. Thank you.
Those images are fantastic and your review was very detailed and very helpful, I'm considering the Bessa II is the viewfinder that bad when it comes to focusing?
Topper Harley , I would not say it’s bad to focus, the rangefinder works great, it’s just small, and if you wear glasses makes it worse, it is usable and functional it’s just the way they made them and you will get used to it. Thank you
@@martinhensonphotography Thanks for your reply, it's a very stylish camera. I'll see if I can find one in good shape.
@@MegaGordzilla Dont buy such cameras for being "stylish" . Buy them only if you want the look of the pictures they deliver and if you like the handling of such an old camera…
You would not be happy in long terms if it is only an fashion accessory for you.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for such an information packed video Martin. Did you have any pinhole light leaks from your bellows? And if you had, how does one patch them without replacing the entire bellows? Thanks again!!
I had no light leaks form either camera, the bellows are excellent top quality, thanks
Go to the art store or on line and buy "Liquitex" (Heavy Body Acrylic) any shade of black, or carefully use small pieces of gaffers tape.
@@fredricknietzsche7316 Thanks for the info Fredrick, it's much appreciated! I'll keep that in my back pocket for when it's needed down the road.
Thank you for the review. The correct pronunciation of "Voigtländer" is a bit unusual. The V sounds like an F. The i isn't meant to be pronounced but is only an indicator that the o is a long vowel. This rule disappeared from normal language but still can be found in names.
Very nice video, just like all of your videos! And such nice shots. I just got a mint Bessa I with external range finder. It's a gem. Can anyone recommend 120 film (b+w and colour) that still uses well printed, readable exposure numbers on the back paper nowadays?
I have recently bought a Bessa RF, seems in great condition. I'm fairly local to you, where would you recommend getting it CLAd? I can't wait to get out and use it, I think I will run a film through first and see the results. I'm on the hunt for a 6x4.5 mask too.
If you put the shutter speed dial in either T or B you don't need to cock the shutter, or need a release cable. You just trip the shutter release on the door.
I just bought a Voigtländer Bessa RF and it appears to have a new bellows. Overall the camera looks like it's in great shape. I’m about to put film in it and I wonder if you've experienced light leaks with the two red windows. They appear to be open all the time whereas all my other film cameras with red windows have ways to close them.
No, however I keep take over them and only lift the tape when winding to the next frame, better safe than sorry
@@martinhensonphotography Good advice. Here's an odd thing I noticed. Several times I couldn't open the camera. I finally figured out that I had to have the focus knob turned completely counter-clockwise to open it. I’m guessing that the focus pushes and pulls the lens just enough even when collapsed to cause the pieces to not align perfectly to open unless fully retracted. Have you noticed this?
Martin, can I ask if it’s you playing some of the guitar music in your videos? I thought I saw your guitar in some episodes. Lovely pictures and music!
Another great video and pictures! I have a question. Your guitar picture was apparently taken with some kind of closeup attachment. Was there a special attachment for the Bessas? Or you just used a general-purpose attachment and calculated/calibrated the distance?
No attachments, it was wide aperture at its nearest focus distance around 3 feet then cropped heavily
@@martinhensonphotography Thanks! I haven't thought of that, but yes, there is a plenty of room for cropping with 6x9 negatives😀
Great vid Martin, they look like great cameras and really enjoyed the pics at the end. I'd love to get one of these but I'd need to get a new enlarger, mine only goes up to 6x7. I notice that the Bessa II has a thread so it looks like it will take filters. I wonder what diameter? That would make me lean towards the II rather than the rf if you can indeed put screw type filters on the II.
Or just shoot 6 x 4.5 and get twice the number of shots per roll.
The short answer is push on A37 or series VI. it's likely that the threads are for lens assembly. FYI its not 34.5 or 35.5 screw thread.
My bessa 2 was messed up by me. I mistakenly twisted the internal focusing protrusion of the camera as a screw and it should have been pressed down. There are no replacement parts in China. Do you have it there?😄
Sorry I don’t
@12:18 Apo-lnath"A"r
Hi, and thank you for yor informative videos and beautiful pictures. One question about the frame counter windows on theese cameras. Is it possible to see the 6x9 framing numbers from the window on every type of 120 film?
Just deleted last reply , read it wrong, yes you can, the only time you won’t see it is if the camera winds from a start mark on the backing paper and stops at the first frame automatically, most if not all folding cameras have the red window
@@martinhensonphotography Thank you, theese are beautiful cameras.
Hi. I love your video! I have been looking for one for a while now. Do you have any bessa RFs for sale? Also if I sent you a link to one I am currently looking at would you be able to advise me if I should or shouldn’t get it? I’m looking at a voightlander bessa from 1939. The asking price is 72.99 selling from Germany
Sorry I don't have one to sell, you can send me a link to have a look, however, without seeing the camera in real life difficult to judge the condition, I would be surprised if its the RF model at that price, thanks
I have two Bessa RFs: a well-used one with a pristine Skopar lens, and one in new condition with the Heliar. The Skopar takes beautiful, sharp photos despite cosmetic wear. I’ve only used the Heliar with one roll of film, and was quite disappointed with the results compared with the Skopar. I must shoot with it again, and see whether it was down to something such as camera shake (I was shooting hand-held) or to a fault in the camera itself. With things as they are at the moment, I’m reluctant to go out and use a tripod though. Your pictures are beautiful! Did you use a tripod for any of them?
I have done both ways with and without tripod, I don't have Skopar lens, so cannot compare, however, I love the classic look the uncoated Heliar produces
Martin Henson Well your beautiful photos have inspired me, so I’m going use my Heliar Bessa again.
Also consider that these lenses are "adjusted" at the factory with shims, it's entirely possible that at some point it was "cleaned" and reassembled with different or a different number of shims / not properly focus adjusted after the fact. I guess it also matters what the complaint is, as a lens can suffer from a variety of post manufacturing issues out in the real world. Yes the Skopar is a very usable lens.
@@fredricknietzsche7316 Thank you. I subsequently found that the front lens was not fully screwed in to the shutter, which was probably the problem, but before I got round to testing it, I swapped the camera for a Plaubel Makina IIIs outfit.
I really like your videos, Martin. I just got a Voigtlander Bessa 2, which was serviced recently. I have a question: the split image system does not seen to match the focus distance numbers. Infinity seems okay but closest seems off by 5" and I'm wondering if that is because the focus number refers to the distance from the lens to the image, as opposed to distance from the film plane. What do you think? Thanks for all you do. Peter.
I think the distance will be from the film plane, only way is try it out and see if all
Is correct, maybe if it’s been serviced the focus wheel has been positioned incorrectly,, just a thought
@@martinhensonphotography Thanks, Martin. Well, all will be revealed today in the lab. Such a beautiful camera, though.
@@martinhensonphotography Well, got the film back from the lab. I can say for sure that the rangefinder coupler works perfectly - it's just it doesn't correspond to the numbers on the dial! Better that way round, I suppose. I will now use the split image system with confidence. One thing I did notice - light leaks whenever I didn't close the red window. Lesson learned. All good.
The real name of "Bessa RF" ist Bessa E.
I think by "real" he means the German name. A Rose is a Rose.
Do you know that its focusing system can be interchanged? My BESSA2 focusing system is broken.
I am not sure, unless a broken doner camera is used to swop parts
I would very much doubt that the mechanics and optics of the two rangefinders are interchangeable. They are probably similar, but the baseline, the distance between split image rangefinder windows is significantly different, which would require difference specifications for everything. The pre-war RF has the longer baseline. This plus the more magnified viewing of the RF images makes the earlier RF the more accurate by a significant degree.
Well done!