The REAL Problem with Cities Skylines 2
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- It's no secret there's something wrong with Cities Skylines 2 and with so many things to choose from, it's hard to say what it's biggest problem is. And without bashing on the game at all, that's what we discuss in this video.
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Side note - The landing gear on airplanes not retracting after take of is a HUGE pet peeve for me in this game
Haha oh man I didn’t even notice. That is annoying
A scope problem. A city builder does not need such little things. You cannot have everything.
Man, CO is getting cooked this week.
I actually feel pretty bad for CO. After publishing this I saw some stuff that really points to paradox being the problem really but since CO is the one communicating directly, they’re getting the brunt of it unfortunately. It’s a bad case of poor communication too I think. They implied it was done. And it wasn’t. And they knew it. And that’s eroded a lot of trust. But it’s not broken completely. CO and paradox can fix it especially since most people want them to. Most people I think haven’t given up on them and also want to see them succeed. At least that’s the vibe I get in the circles I’m in. 🤷🏽♀️
@@brinedpickle I do think it is tragically ironic that the things (minus the always online crap) this game is being "cooked" for right now is the very things that gave them the chance after Sim City crashed and burned: "Using a gazillion resources", "Simulations somehow doesn't matter", "You can ignore important services because it doesn't matter" and so on. The plethora of bugs which is due to a pushed release to cover other losses by Paradox is another matter and we can yell about that as much as we want, it's the same crap every big game publisher do these days. EA, Ubisoft, Bethe... I mean Microsoft, Paradox. Fill gaps in the quarter budget first, worry about quality later, if ever. But the issues the large creators have pointed out over the last 10 days or so is the exact same issues that ultimately cooked Sim City at the end: A supposedly super-complex model, that just... didn't show any complexity, at all.
@@brinedpickle Both put their name to the product and profited from it. I think, just from general knowledge of how these things work, the fact that it was pushed out about a year or more before it was actually ready was paradoxes doing, but it's not like anyone at CO really raised any kind of alarms either plus their post-launch rhetoric and behaviour hasn't exactly been contrite. I also find it completely irrelevant. It's not about witch hunting who's to "blame", it's not about going after anyone, it's about the fact that whether it's because CO is being mismanaged or because Paradox has them under their thumb, the result is the same, the products they make can no longer be trusted to be worth buying and I won't be forking out money for them unless I know they're high quality. The involvement of paradox complicates things even further because they love to change and break things post-release, which means even if it IS of acceptable quality on release it may not always be so.
You're absolutely correct that no competition is a problem. I also believe the game has a lot of potential. I just haven't enjoyed it as much as CS1 yet.
Yeah. I’ve been enjoying it a lot. But some days are harder than others to get into it. Which is sometimes just lack of motivation/inspiration not something wrong with the game. Which is why it’s so hard to drop bc it IS fun and I WANT to play haha. They can easily turn this around if they’re committed to doing so.
@@brinedpickle BTW congrats on nearly 1000 subs! I was #985 😅
Haha!! Thank you!!
11 years later, I'm sure my one cargo truck is still stuck under the overpass between the cities in SimCity 2013 that caused my entire economy to crash. The one and only bug I wished EA/Maxis would have fixed. I enjoyed SimCity 2013 ALOT esp. with the multiplayer aspect. Yea the city tile was insanely small. But I had fun with it. Honestly, I pre-ordered Cities Skylines 2 but I haven't loaded it at all. With the hardware of my system possibly not being able to handle the graphics to all the stuff I've been hearing about issues with the game in general. I really don't want another SC2013 all over again but it's really feeling like it's heading that direction which is sad. I enjoyed CS1. I mean, just watching your cinematic I was surprised at the level of detail that was missed. Right off the beginning that offramp white lines crosses over the other one. Big round turns are blocky, not a smooth corner. I'm hoping those are just graphic settings to help with system resources.
Yeah that’s my biggest like disappointment. They had a really good thing going and I’m worried they’re gonna run it into the ground in the name of greed. And I mean paradox not CO. I really think CO wants to make the game they promised. I’m worried paradox thinks what we have is good enough bc it is GOOD. Just not what was promised.
"11 years later, I'm sure my one cargo truck is still stuck under the overpass between the cities in SimCity 2013 that caused my entire economy to crash." Honestly, I was going to comment something similar...but this is by far, one of the funniest things I've ever read 🤣🤣🤣
I don't think the developers will ruin it. Obviously there will be greed involved, there will be corporate decisions which will involve sucking the most money they can. But we also have to understand that the developers cannot go the pace that players demand and desire. Its a slow process to fix and develop it. Cs1 was also very bare bones when it came out and it took years to reach the state it actually is now. I dont think the developers will fail us, but it will take time, and certainly there will be greedy decisions.
You are so right i spent so much money on the sims 4 i stop buying those dlc and the game doesn't have that spark like the sims 2 and 3 did i got cities skyline 2 and i don't even play it and you are so right i enjoy the video
Glad you enjoyed it! But yeah these games. They’re just not what they promise anymore. For lots of games not just CS2
I think a problem is the core mechanics are not fleshed out enough, and the tiny details are too expansive. For instance, the high beam lights turing on and off seeing other cars. Yes thats awesome, but how much time did they spend making sure that works and what kind of cpu usage does that use that could be used for better otehr things?
Absolutely! I love the details but not at the expense of a finished game.
If it's true that the lack of a direct competitor is allowing CO and/or PDX to be too complacent in fixing problems, then I think the tough lesson will come soon enough. If problems aren't addressed with some urgency, I fear they will either: 1) Suffer the same fate as SimCity 2013, whereby an upstart competitor comes along and upstages them by surprise, or 2) Active user stats keep dropping and by the time they have the problems fixed, people have moved on and the game has lost most of its momentum.
I think the second option is the more likely one in this case. Dedicated city builder players (myself included) will still come back to the game, even if it takes them a year or two to fix properly. And just like Pickle, I'll probably buy at least some of the DLC too. If you watched this video and you are taking the time to read this far into the comments, it's likely that you're in the same camp. CO doesn't need to worry about losing any of us... we'll mostly come back around we are happy with the level of things being fixed.
But the people they NEED to be worried about are the more casual folks. The people who aren't going to go on Thunderstore to download a mod to fix demand, and who aren't going to keep checking in for updates to find out when assets are available, or when a 'no access to customers' bug has been fixed or not. Those folks will give the game a quick try and give up fast if it's not working as expected. Or they might read a current negative review and never even both to buy the game and give a shot. Fixing the game 6 months from now won't bring most of those folks back. You only get one shot at all the hype and publicity that goes with initial launch.
I know there are examples of games that have recovered after a weak launch. But there are far more examples of games that lose initial momentum, never recover (even if they had had some potential in theory), and that disappear into obscurity awfully quickly. I truly hope it doesn't go that way for this game. But CO and PDX need to know they have a quickly closing window to avoid this game meeting that fate.
My point is... even without a direct competitor out there right now, CO will be facing an existential threat (in the short-term) if they don't treat this situation with maximum urgency.
And even in the long term, right now they are creating fertile ground for a possible competitor to be born. Why haven't we seen another city builder of this type for the past 10 years? I would argue it's because CS1 had the genre locked up, and other developers have probably just said, "I'm not competing on that ground against a respected company that has a solid game already." For 10 years, those individuals have probably gravitated to other sub-genres (like all the medieval games we've seen) and avoided trying to out-compete a solid game like CS1.
But I'll bet you anything that somewhere out there there are at least a couple of innovative devs saying to themselves, "Hmmm... the arithmetic here has just changed." And that might just be a good thing for the genre.
Very excellently put! You’re so right about them losing the more casual players. I know even those cyberpunk for example did eventually get a lot better but I originally got a ps5 mostly for that game. And have I bought it yet? Nope. Lost interest. And many will do the same with CS2.
Have a look at Madden. No competition for over a decade. Game has been trash for years, but they're still going strong. To be fair, EA has the Ultimate Team stuff for Madden and their soccer game which is where the real money is. That's probably why Madden hasn't suffered the same scenario you described above.
I am just a 'hobby developer', not even full 'indie', BUT..... The flaws of CS2 are inspiring and motivating me.
I have been a fan of city sims since Sim City was first released on the black & white original mac in the 80's. (yes, I'm old)
I have fantasized and half attempted to make related stuff over the years. I'm not a 'pro', I don't know many other technical people to talk shop with. So progress is slow for me. But in recent years, I have had plenty of free time to put more into my city sim ideas, and I have been learning a lot lately.
I keep posting comments about learning game development and making your own. I'm hoping to "seed" the idea out there more. I am just one person and I doubt i can complete anything in a short time to directly compete with CS2, I'd like to but I am trying to be realistic with myself. I'm not not good at social media stuff, so promotion is where I fall flat. I'm too old, y'all on Discord and stuff make little sense to me. That's a millennial/z zone. Makes no sense to an x like me. So, even if I do make something that works, i don't know how I'd get it out there.
But maybe some comments about it may inspire others to do as I have and open up an IDE and do something to really make CO worried.
I'm actively pushing to make option 1 happen. learning user interface programming right now, then I will move on to voxel terrain.
This video is definitely encouragement for me!
Thanks Brined Pickle, I needed this!
The city-sim market is HUNGRY for the competition. And if I can implement some of my ideas, CS2 will become obsolete.
I'm issuing a challenge to all the code comfortable city sim fans out there.
This is a contest to "Maxis" Paradox/CO, I encourage you to dig in and do that city sim idea YOU have also, the more the merrier! Collectively, we have more knowledge about how a city sim SHOULD work than Paradox/CO will ever hope to have.
maybe some should get together and form an open source city sim project?
Game development is not as hard as many think. And the tools to do it are easier and more widely available than ever.
As someone with far more hours in CS:1 than I care to admit in public, I think my primary criticism of CS:2 has to be the fact that its just... Joyless. No donut vans. About 5 different trees. One path. And the whole game seems to be grey and dull. I just cant get into it... and that's BEFORE all the bugs and pointless mechanics. I genuinely hope something changes. I want to love it. Ireally do. But i just cant get there yet.
It’s overly complex in areas that could be basic and overly basic in areas that should be complex.
I have been a big fan of city builders since the original SimCity, and I enjoy Cities: Skylines despite its poor optimization and various other problems, but I have not purchased Cities: Skylines 2. This video is the first one to really bring to the foreground the reason why I might never pick up Cities: Skylines 2 and might never buy another game published by Paradox. DLC spam has been a problem with Paradox-published games for some time, and it looks like they are going to try to milk Cities: Skylines 2 to death, much as Electronic Arts does with The Sims. I got tired of Electronic Arts long ago and never bought any Sims games, so maybe I haven't been properly conditioned to accept this.
I do not like the idea of buying a bare bones, feature-incomplete game and then paying in bits and pieces for stuff that should have been there in the first place. I allowed Paradox to suck me in with Cities: Skylines and Surviving Mars, but I don't want to jump on the DLC spam train again, and I don't want to be stuck with a feature-incomplete vanilla game if I decide to boycott the DLC. Surviving Mars wasn't too bad until the last DLCs came out buggy and were never properly fixed, and the game got free buggy updates even for those who didn't buy the DLC. I think city builders can get away with a bit more DLC than some other genres, but Paradox took it too far with Cities: Skylines, and I'm sure it will look reasonable by comparison when the parade of DLC really gets going for Cities: Skylines 2. Of course, I'll observe the situation as it develops, and if, by some miracle, Paradox changes its practices and does a better job than past history would indicate, then I might consider buying the game. Otherwise, I'll wait for a very long time, and it might not come into my collection until long after the game has run its course, and the whole package is finally available at a reasonable price.
I'm not a casual fan. City builders have been a favorite genre of mine for a very long time. It takes a lot for me to reject major entries in this genre. I have rejected Anno 1800 because of intrusive DRM, and I am rejecting Cities: Skylines 2 because of its incomplete state and the likelihood of excessive DLC spam. Fortunately, I can still fall back on Anno 1404 and Cities: Skylines.
THANK YOU for pointing out the similarities with the current state of the sims 4! so many people miss or skip over this
Luckily….(or perhaps unfortunately 😂😂) I’ve been playing the sims long enough to notice this parallel haha
the main reason I stopped playing for now is because I'm using a custom map and know it will break whenever they bring out the true map editor.
They did clarify that while their priority is mod/asset support, it doesn't mean other fixes aren't being worked on-there are different teams working on different parts of the game.
I don't think anyone wanted it rushed out in the state that it was-I think the original plan was to ship it by Christmas for both PC and console and then fix it later-that didn't happen of course.
Yeah I know they’re not done fixing things which is great news. I just worry they’re less interested in fixes than just letting mods fix it. But it’s only a worry; I’m not saying for certain they will. I don’t think theyre thing to be that kind of company/ hope they’re not.
Is this example in your broken simulation list?
You can start a new city and prevent all incoming traffic but allow enough road at the entrance to drop off pedestrians. Then allow the incoming movers walk into your city.
I currently have a population of 60k and no traffic because I only allow pedestrians to enter the city.
I use public transportation to get them around the city.
I know why this is working.
If you watch the "transporters" the majority vehicles entering the city normally, all they do is drive aimlessly around your city just waiting to clog up your roads.
Your actual citizens don't commute to work.
They will commute to commercial though.
Essentially no one really drives other than delivery trucks and transporters and those new moving in or leaving the city.
This is the only way I could get rid of the stupid driving AI.
Also, my industrial has no imports!! How do they operate with no incoming materials to make stuff. They just magically collect their resources.
Yeah the transportation/traffic is odd. Watched an imperatur video the other day where he had tons of public transit and then deleted it all to see if traffic would start clogging things and it just. Didn’t. It made no difference. And like Biffa talked about, so much of the stuff just doesn’t actually seem to matter/impact your city as you’d expect. Traffic was one of the biggest challenges in cs1 and that’s what made it so fun to play. Make a beautiful city AND a functional one.
100% Agree. The exploitation of gaming community needs to stop. Relying on modders is just another version of what game shops did with their employees a-la crunch; exploit passion. We shouldnt stand for this kinda BS, from CO/PI or any other game shop.
I went back to the first game a couple of months ago. The fragility of the zoning grids in CS2 was beyond frustrating.
I got two rules I follow when I find games I want:
1: I never ever pre-order. No matter what.
2: I wait until I've seen at least two separate reviews, before buying a game.
Skylines 2 sits comfortably in my Steam wish list. It remain there until I think its worth the money.
If companies cant get away with releasing half-baked games anymore, they'll stop trying.
A solid choice I wish I had made honestly. I do enjoy the game still but had I known I may have held off a bit.
It's the same as Cyberpunk. People crying about performance issues and bugs, but missing the fundamental issues - advertised as a city building simulator, while they've given us just a city painter where nothing matters.
Anno 1800 is not a city builder game, it's a maritime commercial empire simulation. It's dominant side is not building city, it's producing and shipping stuff around.
As for video games, it's now normality to hype a game sequel using ''non game play cinematic'' prior to releasing a unfinished product just so to sell DLC and packages down the line. The publisher don't realize they're killing the players for every title down the line and cutting the branch their sitting on, but they don't care as long as they get money now.
Sadly, what Paradox/CO did, seems to be a trend within the gaming industry. Release a game not quite ready, and promise that it will be better. No Man's sky is the poster child of this, they released a horrible product but spent years making it better. To a lessor extent CyberPunk was able to recapture its lost audience similarly. Most gamers see this trend, and I think Paradox is going to be hard pressed to win back its audience as people are tired of this. I'm liking your channel, and I'm subscribing. good luck, I enjoyed your content
Thanks for sticking around! I hope you enjoy the rest :)
It’s boring and most of it does not make sense.
The game? To each their own. It’s certainly lacking and it’s not nearly as engaging as CS1 was but myself and others still are mostly enjoying it/enjoying the few things it does really well. But I know it’s not everybody’s jam and that’s also 100% valid.
@brinedpickle I mean taxes are tied to education, when it's winter the lots are still green, you can't buy out the map, the textures are less detailed than CS 1, etc.
Now I haven't bought the game and don't intend to for quite awhile but these issues seem huge, but if you like what the game does well, that's great! At least someone's happy with the game.
Not true, the Textures are not better. The asset models look far superior than cities skylines 1, and if you have many thousands of hours like me on cs1, you'll notice that cities 2 has an important thing most people fail to mention. It the assets scale. It feels so much better than cs1 because it now looks like a much more realistic scale, and i find it hard to go back to cs1 after that. Ppl aso fail to realize that when cs1 came it at first was very much bare bones like cs2 is now. It became incredibly popular at first because sim city had failed and cs1 allowed us to make big cities as we desired. But it was bare bones. I remember coming back to cs1 after some years and finding that it was such a much better and complete experience. But it took time, a lot of it. So far i've been playing cs2 on game pass, but I do plan to buy it in the future when new content comes along.
You're absolutely right, CS1 with so many DLCs you don't even have all time in the world to experience every piece of content available for it vs unfinished early access no DLCs no workshop CS2. It's borderline bare framework. Very promising framework but it's just that.
100% very promising. And I hope they feel it’s worth living up to that promise
Instead of just “eh good enough “
I thought you made some great points but you have to remember they designed this game with profitability in mind. Making a sequel like this is often challenging because the players will want all or most of the features of the old game, with all it's expansions and people get peeved and penalize the game when it doesn't have everything. So what it looks to me like they did was put a bunch of "fillers" in for future expansion. For instance, there's raw materials, which sucks in it's current incarnation but I look at it with an open mind and understand at some point they'll have an "Industries 2" expansion that will fix it all. My BIGGEST peeve was the way that they barely included any ordinances at all, which is something I wish they did in much greater detail.
Simulation and assets. That’s all they need to start addressing.
Add more variety to the services like schools, hospitals, police & fire stations. Having 50 elementary schools with the same two upgrades is repetitive. Also need more variety to public transport. One size train station that’s super big is nice for the downtown but sucks if you want to place in a smaller village. Also sucks there’s no real cross-connecting subway stations that run perpendicular to each other in a single station. This also goes with RICO growable buildings. Needs more variety. Like an extra 2-3 per level per type. Just seems like not enough variation amongst growable buildings.
At a certain point, you never lose money. You are guaranteed to make $$millions/hour regardless of what you do to your city. Also public transport doesn’t seem to affect traffic too much anyways. Citizens will literally walk from one side of your city to the other so there’s always thousands of sims on your streets and sidewalks.
Also, the low-rent buildings almost always never stay up. -15 happiness because of small homes and then the building becomes abandoned soon after it’s built.
All that being said. I still enjoy the game and hoping that the game becomes really good sooner rather than later.
The only way to have the variety of assets that was available in CS1 is to have mod support and have workshop uploads. A developer only has a limited staff of artists and can not make as many assets as really needed, so they take shortcuts to make it look like more. Or add mod support and allow the users to add content they prefer.
I think it's better to have users make content, developer made content is curated by one art director and can have too much of a"look", the random variety of what different users can make in mods is that gives a city a more natural look. How many cities have building all designed by one architect?
That leaves the "simulation"... LOL.... That is an optimization problem and I don't think common users understand how elusive solutions to problems like that are. It's not like that are wizards and have a magic "fix bugs" button.
Coding can be difficult, sometimes there is something that you are convinced SHOULD work, but for the love of god, it's wont!, and you pull your hair out trying to figure out why it's so slow or whatever.... that what programming is like at time. It can be very frustrating. I think those ignorant of coding expect far too much.
And to be 'controversial' and actually cut CO a break, I think they did actually improve some performance in the last update, there IS hope.
Very thoughtful and well well said! I enjoy the game and have 340 hrs played so far with 6 cities ranging from 250k pop to my current one at 30k. I know I'm in the (very very tiny) minority, but I don't think the game is as broken as people say it is. Are there quirks? Yes!. Could it have been better at launch? Yes. Will it live up to Cities I? Eventually, yes (I hope).
Did CO and paradox grab $$$, yes, they are public companies with bottom lines and shareholders coming out of COVID era which f'ed up all companies. I think we all need to take a step back, relax, and give CO and Paradox a bit of slack for a bit. They know the f'ed up, now let's let them fix their mistakes and earn back the good will they lost instead of dog piling and kicking them while their down. I will continue to play, and watch all the CSII content anyone will put out. I hope the CS community won't carry the palpable toxicity forward because the CS community was, and is, one of the least toxic, most friendly, and fun communities out there! That's what drew me to it and that's what I expect going forward! Thanks so much for your vids!
Glad you enjoyed it! Yeah I really do think they want to do right by all parties. especially the devs. Sometimes that’s just hard when people want money ASAP. In the end tho nobody’s happy lol. They can really tturn things around and I hope they do. I love the game and want to see it succeed. It’s so much fun still and I can only imagine how much more fun it will be down the line. I didn’t play CS1 on release but I know folks who did and that was buggy and lacking as well so. It happens. I think they just hyped it too much while knowing it wasn’t ready yet.
It's funny to say this, but Cities Skylines 2 has been released in an environment that it's very similar to the one where Sim City 2013 was released: no direct competition. Honestly, I feel like the people who are having it the worst are the devs... they seem to be so excited about Cities Skylines 2 and all its possibilities, and yet they are the ones receiving all the bashing from the community and probably being exploited to take the game to a better state.
What Colossal needs is a CEO with steel balls who can step up in front of Paradox and say: Look, I know you want to recover your investment, but, if we don't stop this madness and focus on fixing this game, you'll have nothing to recover money from.
They literally have all the data to support that claim. All this game needed was 9 months more to bake the optimization of LODs, improve the way that failsafes were introduced and add mod support from launch. Everything is just so messy and I'm pretty sure that inside Colossal they are going though hell right now.
You’re 100% right on all of that. I feel bad for the CO devs bc I really do think they’re trying their best and are under pressure from both sides but for different results. Paradox just wants money and players want a finished game. But if they waited to give us a finished game first they wouldn’t have those million sales and since they got what they wanted so far they’re not as invested in getting it fixed. And bc they have no competition I know people like myself who will keep buying stuff from them knowing that the quality is there. Somewhere. Waiting to be finished haha.
@@brinedpickle I have to say though, if they are already being pushed to develop and release DLC's, I don't think they investors recovered all their money.
I feel right now is THE moment to push the break and fix stuff, once DLC's start to release, I feel the foundations will stay pretty much at the state they find them.
I still have a good feeling about this game, however, I don't think Paradox wants to give CO time to improve it.
I really want this game to function as they promised, because that would make it the best City Simulator ever. I need a challenge and I haven't had since Sim City 4.
I agree 100% on all of that
@@marcoc7388 Indeed ...I agree. CS1 is good ....but it's not as good as SC4. However CS2 with everything fixed and a slightly bigger map would certainly be the best game of them all. I can't wait to see Colossal Order do it
Once i figured out how to build to build a city that worked,i gave up playing because it stopped being fun, as there wasn't enough to do to keep me playing, not enough variety or even tweaking i could do to make it better. The biggest relevantion to me was however if you dont let people drive into the city they have no cars and you have no traffic (until they buy one)
I’ve heard that about the cars. That’s really interesting.
Yup, I’ve probably spent at least $500 on sims 4 content and it’s not even a game I would call my favorite out of all the l games I’ve ever played. It’s just there and an easy game I can play when I’m taking a break from other ones. I REALLY hope that is not the future of CS2. Call of Duty also does this and a lot of people are fed up with it. It’s an example of another franchise that has very few alternatives. Gaming companies will continue to with this trend as long as consumers put up with it.
Yep and with the sims and it finally having some competition coming I’ll be interested to see how things go with all of that.
New channel creator here for Cities 1 and 2, and you basically nailed everything I was going to say in my next CS2 video - and in a much nicer tone I might add. I'm not mad at the game itself, but I am disappointed that CO and Paradox seem to be dumping it onto the modders to fix their mess, let alone for free (essentially). CS2 is playable and vaguely enjoyable with mod support. Without it, its.....meh. Likely forgettable in the near future if things don't change.
You're right; We've been spoiled as CS community, compared to other games around: open/free for modding, not a (paid) DLC/creator pack every month, and with (almost?) every DLC there was a free update of the base game.
I can understand your call for prioritizing gameplay, but lots of people loosing fun in playing without the mods, so also see the call for them returning those. Pretty sure the wishes you outed will be taken into next updates, just takes more time then (everybody) anticipated and wished for. But pretty sure they are working hard to keep community alive and thriving.
For sure. Mods are important. All of it’s important as it gives players that creativity that makes these kinds of games so fun to play. I know CO wants to fix things and the devs are working hard, I worry more that paradox just wants the money and won’t give them the time they need to do what needs to be done. But I also really hope I’m wrong haha. I want it to do well. It’s a good game with so much promise.
@@brinedpickle saw a video where somebody pointing out that the paradox sims spinoff was delayed "because we want to give good play, right from the start", so pretty sure they are in the known that they did something stupid, and need to do better [aka give CO time/resources] to save the communities commitment ;-)
Yeah I saw that too. Hopefully they bring that lesson to the rest of cs2 and don’t just write it off as a failure already bc I really don’t think it is. It’s a good game I hope to play for many years to come
I think many are intimidated about the install and update process of mods, and also fear them adding more instability to a game. This is valid, not for the really casual users.
But if "official" mod support is added, which means an integrated mod installer and a more documented and supported mod api and update system.
Some complain that it's "offloading work to users". To some degree this is true, but those who create mods do so for their own enjoyment, so what was "offloaded" on to them? Co only sells DLC content, mods are free.
But the real limitation is the use of static models for building and building parts. This is the "excuse" to sell DLC, you have to pay the 3D artists to make more models, is the rationale of the developer. It takes time and work to make new content for the game.
It would take an entirely new city sim engine to change that. What needs to happen is more procedural construction of buildings in the game. Than fixed, static models with swapped textures and colors made in Blender or something. But then a developer could not sell as much DLC if it worked like that, so they are not very motivated to implement that type of system.
Don't want the game to be able to make it's own content on the fly, what about my monetization?
I'm not a "power" user and my cities are pretty basic; although I am taking advantage of a lot of the mods (which thankfully deal with most of my bigger frustrations) but I do hope the game progresses because I admit I love the game.
It’s a majority of the games released by all AAA developers. At some point during the creation of the Internet and downloads and updates, the consumer felt that it was acceptable to be able to get a patch to fix their game or program as if it was a convenience provided to them. But those of us that have been around before the Internet… you did not have this option. You bought something either on a tape cassette a floppy disc or a cartridge that’s it. That was your one chance of getting it right. Yes, things have changed technologies more advanced, blah blah blah put whatever excuse you want in there, but at the end of the day it is us we the consumer that are allowing companies to put forth this kind of crap on a regular basis and see it as acceptable. We as the employees of these companies also have a right to put our foot down and say hey, this isn’t right we can’t be doing this regardless of what egghead CEO or board members think it’s gonna make the numbers look best for that month or that quarter, that’s on us we the people need to stop and say enough is enough. if you choose to keep buying DLC’s content creator packs, etc. before a game is actually completed as a base game. You’re actually part of the problem not part of the solution… in the end money talks if you don’t spend it, they will actually start to listen.
Absolutely agree! Had this same convo with a member of my discord about old games having to be finished since there was no way to update them after. It’s a shame the way things are going and it’s a shame we as consumers have allowed it for so long.
They want mods first so they can complete the game for them for free. They learned from CS1 when mods became big and the games potential was realized.
Well stated!
I believe in the principals that in order for a healthy market, good products should thrive and bad products should fail and I believe games like CS2 and Sims 4 are bad products.
I think Paradox is more of the issue here. Honestly, It reminds me of some past issues with other games, such as the release of Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines in 2004. The game clearly wasn't done yet, but Activision forced Troika Games to release it anyway. The backlash, disappointment, and loss of money was a contributing factor to Troika Games going out of business, which was heartbreaking, as they have other games in their catalog (such as Arcanum) that I still play today, over 20 years later.
I've played city builders since I was 10, when I received the first SimCity as a gift. I love 'em, so much, so I want to love Cities Skylines 2. Despite all its flaws, it certainly can be fun... but I feel like so many errors have been made with zero immediate solutions. I want to access things like shrub walls, to decorate recreational areas (do-it-yourself shrub maze, anyone?) or along the sides of buildings, but I don't want to deal with dev mode. A lot of mods have features that absolutely should be part of the base game experience, but for whatever reason, aren't. I like this game, and I want to love it, but it feels more like I'm in a toxic relationship with it, which is why I've stepped away from it. Hopefully, Colossal Order can fix this stuff soon.
In closing? You have my sub.
Happy to have you here! But yeah I share all of those sentiments. I really really want to LOVE it. I like it but don’t love it. But I know I COULD love it if they give us what they promised.
@@brinedpickle Indeed. Also, a bunch of DLCs won't help me love it, it'd just push me away. The original Cities Skylines has nearly $400 in DLCs. Not as bad as some games out there, but still a jaw-dropping price tag.
The problem with the dlc and costing money
They use the dlc money to keep making content for the game and to keep the game alive
It’s a vicious cycle. At least as it compares to EA and the sims I think CO puts out a fine amount of DLC that adds enough to the game to warrant buying. But it’s easy to go from releasing DLC to fund improvements to releasing DLC to quiet/delay complaints and still get money out of people. But EA is a whole other beast than paradox and I am cautiously optimistic it’ll won’t get to EA level of bad.
Hello, Brined Pickle! May we know a list of the mods you use? (or is there a video I missed where it's stated) I really like your content plus would help getting a first-hand feel with the way you build stories in your cities!
I mention which mods I use in a few videos but never a good easy to read list but happy to share (I’ll have to find a good place to post them where people can always find it) but in my latest video I use Anarchy, tree controller, line tool as well as developer mode (until find stuff comes to PDX Mods). Just a few things to help with decorating :)
@@brinedpickle Oh, happy day!
Maybe one day CS2 will evolve to become CS1!
On a more serious note, the problem with most game studios these days is the same: too much DEI hiring, and talent left to second plane. You can see that on CO's "dev" videos. Throw the diversity on the garbage where it belongs and bring back good developers and we will have great games again.
If I was a modder I wouldn't mod anything for CS2. Would feel like unpaid work making the game what it should be on release. CS1 did have the same issue but wasn't directly broken, did start coming alive when mods popped up, then spiralled out of control. Stopped playing because stuff was just constantly in a "broken mod" state. It was fine then, since it was new and nothing like it has existed for a long time. Today is not those times, someone completely dropped the ball here. CS2 could probably use another 12 mo of development time or something
Workers and Resources Soviet Republic has been my go to.
I think I’ve seen that one advertised. I’ll have to check it out
It's more of a resource management game on the extreme micromanaging scale 🤔. It's no joke, gotten a lot of updates since the initial release. Was totally brutally unforgiving in the early days. The winter freeze of many games forgetting to turn on a heating plant erases your entire population to the point you can't naturally recover 😳
I'm so glad Pickle that you are not one of those content creators that bash the game and say things like 'oh this game is trash, nobody touch the game with a 5 foot pole' and things like that. Are there bugs in the game? Yes, what game doesn't? Does this game run poorly on older hardware? Depending on who you are, yes it does. Does this game have simulation issues that need to be fixed? Absolutely. But this game is STILL fun at the end of the day, and I'm tired of these content creators picking this game apart and listing the reasons why you SHOULDN'T buy this game, outside of the graphics and performance bugs and issues (no offence Pickle).
And also for people that are saying in the comment section that 'oh EA should bring back SimCity' and things like that, yeah okay they should bring back SimCity because that game was my childhood back in the day (amongst others), but at the same time, do you REALLY want EA who are WELL KNOWN for sucking us all dry money wise, to bring back a game with an always online requirement (it's in every one of their games), small map sizes and endless MTX? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS is the reason that CS 1 and 2 existed in the first place. When all is said and done, THIS game and CS 1 before it, was EVERYTHING that that garbage SimCity 2013 SHOULD have been. People can say what they want, but it's true. Earned a sub from me Pickle. There are a few content creators I enjoy watching for Cities Skylines content. City Planner Plays, Quill18, Biffa and now you 🙂
Glad you enjoyed it and I’m an honored to have made the cut for CS players you enjoy! But yeah I really like the game. It’s a ton of fun and I want to continue playing it for years to come. I’m okay with problems existing in games; nothings perfect. But so many companies lately, EA being the biggest offender I know of, don’t care to fix them bc they know they’ll have people’s money anyway. I would hate to see a company I admire turn that way bc I am a big fan of theirs and love their work. They make amazing games and I’d hate to see their quality slip for just a few more bucks. But I do have genuine faith they don’t want that any more than we players do. They want to put out quality things. In a world where profits tend to be number 1, everyone is battling that system. Devs too. Without money they can’t provide great games but without already having money, people won’t want to help fund those great games. It’s a vicious, vicious cycle truly.
I'm not sure which content creator channels you've been following? I follow about 10 channels that focus a lot on CS2, and not one of them has been telling their viewers not to touch the game with a 5 foot pole. Most of them are like Biffa... there are problems, they are sad about it, they have recommendations for fixing it, but they don't begrudge people who are playing it and enjoying it. Some of them are saying they might play it a bit less themselves until some of the issues are fixed, but I honestly haven't heard a single one calling the game trash and telling people not to play it. I see people in the comments of some videos saying that, but the creators themselves (at least the ones I watch) have been very respectful and don't say things like that. If you're hearing that type of thing from other CS2 creators, I recommend checking out channels like Biffa, Infrastructurist, City Planner Plays, or Flyvox. They all tend to be very respectful, just as Pickle is being here as well.
For me, the main issue is they keep dragging their feet on implementing mods for thoemasses. I know, I know, there are mods now, but frankly the game isn't 'good enough yet' to bother with mods in the current state.
The last Simcity sold 2 millions copies before it died and got replaced by CS. CS2 sold 1 million. So it's not like Simcity didn't sell at all. The situation is similar enough that I wouldn't be surprised if a smaller developer team is already working on a challenger.
Right know I think Paradox is the problem. They don't (want) recognize the severity of the problem or are lying about to appease their stakeholders. Their last big game "The Lamplighters League" didn't turn a profit so they had push for the CS2 launch to safe their quarterly results. I get it, it's a business. The problem is that they don't really want to fix the big underlying issues since it would mess up their plans for the next couple years. CS2 can't be fixed if Paradox isn't willing to take a temporary loss for a brighter and more profitable future. Maybe all the creators posting these kind of videos can help to make them rethink their strategies. Otherwise i think this game has no or at least no good future.
Edit: My speculations are based on the on the financial statements and reports Paradox released a week ago to their stakeholders. So it's not totally unfounded.
Yeah it’s definitely seems to be confirmed that paradox is the one behind the problems. Poor CO getting all the shit for it
@@brinedpickle I'm not sure about the role of their CEO, but I totally agree with you regarding the devs!
another youtuber posted a video about paradox might've pushed a release to cover for other titles performing badly like Lamplighters League. So a financial CEO decision. How well do those work out? Not a lot
@@rosen9425 that probably depends on the perspective. Stakeholders in publicly traded companies are in for the profits. They don't necessarily care for long-term goals. So people who enjoy the product of a company and the public stakeholders don't really share the same goal. I think it's a deep rooted problem in the stock market. Sometimes pissed off customers are better for the bottom line than happy customers.
@@MewK_
and gamers are left poking their buttholes with crap titles in general. It's getting worse, not better which should happen given the amount of capital being thrown at studios etc
I'll keep watching your content, haven't been disappointed yet. I like the fact you watch Phil for pointers, he's very thorough with his explanations. So keep up with the good work. Your voice is pleasing to my ears.
Thanks! Glad you’re enjoying it! Love Phil’s explanations for how things work irl.
it feels like the "only chinese restaurant in the city" problem. where you get the most god awefull terrible service but you like chinese food and they make it well so you end up going back again and again and they know it.
Exactly!
Played it but I've gotten so used to having full control over my game it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle and I feel like I'm playing an old game with CS2. Maybe when the mods really get going I'll come back for now I'll just stick with CS1.
Thats right that's why i dont watch their live stream anymore because im a bit disappointed when they pulled of a mod that fixed a cs1 bug to make their demo city. Im fine with building mods or new train station mod but a bugfix mod made by someone else used by official team to demo seems not a good selling point for me because mods break everytime an update comes out and if your save is too dependent on mods you can end up not able to play for days
CS2 is like a movie trailer, it showed all the cool things in the movie, but when you watch the actual movie you are let down because of the all of the boring scenes between the action and then the excitiing scenes aren't great because you saw them in the trailer. Take Godzilla X Kong and think how you would have felt watching the movie for the first time and seeing the Skar King for the first time. It should be "OMG SOOOO COOOL!" ...but now it will be "red monkey bad".
That’s another great way to put it. They filled the trailer with the best parts and now the rest of the game feels empty
Since those best parts are pretty small when you have the whole game
You make an excellent point, the genre has been dominated so long by a single developer that is has made them complacent and arrogant frankly. City Skylines 2 is ok, but frankly I am disappointed by fact that the dev team considered it ok have really powerful road tools and not much else, modern cities are trying to move away from private car ownership and the game dev team just seem to be outdated, do cities needs roads yes obviously, but CO have created a another car centric game, and while they did add a few new features to public transport it’s certainly designed in a way that feels clunky and frankly basic, this game should have been focused on giving the player as much as possible on the public transportation end rather than a another car city building game. Being able to modular stations so they can be unique or fit into odd spaces, add signals and priorities to tracks, same with bus stations why are these so static and repetitive? But in my humble opinion the biggest mistake they made was not having an open beta, it would have allowed them to get invaluable feedback from the loyal community and would have avoided many if not all of the bugs that had marred the release of this game since launch, people would have been far more understanding because we would have known it was still in development and would have helped the devs build a superior product.
An open beta would’ve been the smartest way to go about things for sure. Agree 100% on all your points :)
@@brinedpickle thank you.
Honestly, as "fun" as CS2 is, I uninstalled that and reinstalled CS1 because CS1 is overall, just better, on so many levels. Which is funny cause in a way this is Paradox and CO kind of beating themselves up since they are literally their own competition. There's so much more I can do in CS1 than I can do in CS2, sure CS2 has some nifty tools when world building and working on expanding cities, but those few tools they have in CS2 can be found in CS1 in the form of MODS, and those MODS are better quality and more fleshed out than the watered-down versions of those tools found in base game CS2.
I for one hope that we get another simciy title again given how cities skylines is dropping the ball...as much as i like skylines, simcity had something thats was addicting, its presentation and sound effects was on point.
As long as EA isn’t in charge again, I’m down for that.
The real problem is Paradox Policy with games. They release barebone title to be able to sell 10 years of DLCs on them. So, their game feel empty. I don't even dare buying their product anymore, knowing than i will got scam by Paradox.
The other company like Klei Entertainment don't need to sell you 300$ of DLCs to give you monthly content. So, if Klei can do it, every AAA studio can do it.
Also, the fact than their game are boring. CKII was fun to play but the rest ... meh ...
People need to start to boycott their product so things will change in the company.
the game was rushed and released 6 months in advance or even 12 months, it will take years until this game will reach the level of CS1; remember that Cs1 had almost 1 decade of improvement, CS2 is a brand new game and imo is more complex than CS1, I've already watched 1000 episodes of CS2 and the potential of this game is imense but will take time, people's patience is low because they had big expectations for CS2 and have been disappointed.
For me I’d rather have had them delay it than released it. I know for me I’m worried they won’t bother fixing things in a timely manner bc they already have our money. I’m okay with it taking time to be as good as CS1 was but I’m less okay with them meeting very few of the promises they made for how this base game was supposed to be. But I do believe CO at least wants to get it right. And I really do have hope they will make it everything it’s supposed to be. And I’m very excited to see what it can become.
@brinedpickle should had been delayed 12 months and release a decent game but sadly money talks and now their greed backfired.
The big issue I see is...
While CS1 was a PC game that got nerfed for consol, that was easily overcome with mods. It was PC game at heart after all.
While CS2 looks, feels, and even *sounds* like a consol/mobile game they rushed to release on PC.
The former can always be made better with mods cause the game is a PC game, you just need mods to unlock the the stuff they locked for consol port.
The latter can not be fixed, cause consol is consol and consol is just...inferior in all respects.
I was a long time player of cs1 until i had to keep deleting and reinstalling all of my mods everytime they released or updated a dlc. I gave up after the pedestrian dlc.
With that said in my honest opinion on the front side the only thing they needed to fix was the multicore support that lacks in cs1.
They could have gave us the road/network system, the impoved textures and lod of cs2 slapped that on cs1 called it 2 and 99% of us would have been happy. Haha
Haha you’re not wrong. If they’d given us CS1 that looks like CS2 (and has the road tools bc they’re amazing) so many people would have been happy with just that lol
Theres no way there isnt an indie dev city builder project that went into production since CS2 launch. Who knows when the next competitor will pop up.
And it’s sad bc I don’t want a different one really but being the only one seems to have made paradox feel they don’t have to worry about letting the dev team fix the game. But we’ll see I suppose.
Hello, right here.
Ok, maybe I am a little more "hobby" than "professional". But I did work in the game industry in the 90's and I have friends in the industry. I have stayed up to date and am very familiar with all engines. I have been obsessed with the genre since it's beginnings.
I am currently not employed,and have no human distractions at home, so i have PLENTY of free time.
I am diagnosed autistic and all I do is city sim. Not kidding.
I am also very disappointed in Colossal Order and, putting all my frustration over the CS2 let down into my own city sim project.
I don't know the business and marketing end of things well, so I'm not sure yet what I'll do with that part, but I think I can make something playable if I put my focus on it. I'll figure out how to release it then.
But you are entirely correct. I'm working on it right now. It will have full voxel terrain and much bigger maps.
I really want the game to succeed and I believe it will be the best city builder in the future, but without mods and assets it is a failure and the stats show it. Cs2 becomes repetitive and boring very quickly and Cs1 is the competition right now. (my opinion)
Saying the game has potential, when a simulation does not actually simulate crucial parts of the game, is simply delusional. A game that does not have one of its most essential parts in place even rudimentary, cannot have potential.
It is like saying that veteran who got his legs blown off in war has potential as a foot model. Sad to hear Biffa and City planner are stuffed with copium up to their hairline to say something so nonsensical.
With sims 4 I stopped buying theirbroken game and just pirated it and if CO goes the same way I'll do the same, now they've said they will be doing patches with dlc releases I'm not buying any dlc until they fix the game, if they don't fix it I'll just get it all for free and consider my money for the base game as they've had enough money
Yeah I’ve seen the pirating sentiment shared by at least one member of the discord and I can’t say I blame anyone for that desire
The game is a desaster, period. It's not fun compared to CS1. And now I doubt the Devs are even able to handle it. I think we have to wait at least to mid 2025 to get an acceptable version.
KSP 2 was the same way. I think COVID got a lot of game studios behind in development and deadlines were approaching. Time = money when it comes to projects like this, so they released the game before it should have been released. I think they should have released it as a pre-order beta. I also think they're afraid to release official mods because future updates might break them.
They could also give the first DLC away for free to those who bought it last year.
Covid ? or they are just lazy , and greedy for big money ?
I think it’s a bit of both. Devs were affected by covid and publishers didn’t care; they just needed money. And with a game like CS2, they knew people would pay for it. Companies gotta stop doing that shit and we gotta stop letting them. Otherwise they’ll just get worse and worse
PDX endure covid since 20 years. Of course.
When Sims4 came up - i didnt bought it at first place. I was lookin up the reviews and oh damn theres no pool, no toddlers - are they kiddin me?! So i wait. New packs came up and they were full of bugs and lackin of gameplay. and now a hundred expansians/stuff packs later i got the basegame for free but never played it.
CS2 looks like sims4 - it looks good. But it is unfinished - i hope CS2 will not make the same mistakes like Sims4 does. Hopefully CS2 is just the new Cyberpunk and get fixed all along.
Star Citizen set a very bad precedent by showing model of huge success of capitilising on hype without any responsobility to deliver and no real accountability. It paved way for lowering standarts down to what we have now with many games. As for CS2 it is propably lack of competition. So we have a glorified city painter instead of city building simulator. There is no reason for them to try spend time on fixing countless issues since they have to finish in game systems and check how they interact with each other before doing any balancing or polishing.
It’s a real shame all of it honestly.
Yeah you pretty much got it right, this is an issue a lot of people have with Paradox games in general. Pretty much with every game release they release a game that is barebones and disappointing and judge how much effort they put into its future based on how much it retains players. The issue that this model brings is that it puts the burden of continuing development onto the community, mostly through mods and creators. Hearts of Iron 4, for example was a game that boomed at launch, quickly almost died but through the efforts of the talented mod community it made a huge comeback. Imperator Rome - a very similar game, also boomed at launch but never recovered from its terminal decline due to player efforts not being as great as they were with other releases and Paradox has a but abandoned it completely.
I'm afraid Cities Skylines 2 is on the same track, between a lot of creators already switching back to CS1 and the continuing lack of native mod support (and I'm not exactly hopeful for paradox's mod manager either) I'm really afraid CS2 is doomed and the city builder genre with it. TBH, it feels kinda similar to when Simcity 2013 came out.
Yeah it’s just all so disappointing. If they don’t have faith in their games enough to give it their all and give it the financial support it needs and deserves, why should us as consumers?
@@brinedpickle The issue is that these days not a lot of studios want to even make games like these anymore which has left them with no competition.
Please stop buying every DLC from a shitty extortive company. This is why the game industry is collapsing the way it is. Because they can do whatever they want and still get paid. Stop. Stop. Stop. Do NOT reward shitty abusive behavior. You'll just get more of it. We all will.
You’re absolutely right. It’s a hard habit to break and the FOMO is real but I know I’m
Contributing to the problem, rewarding them by buying the junk
@@brinedpickle This wasn't even specifically directed at you. As you said, a lot of people do this. Enough to make that business model profitable.
But here's hoping Paralives destroys EA's cashcow forever, Maybe they'll be forced to actually develop decent (complete) games just to make any money at all.
@kevnar haha no I know. So many of us do it and that’s their evil plan. But money talks and we can withhold ours to send messages to companies like EA that were done with it. I really hope paralives and life by you (tho as a paradox project I can’t say I’m rooting for them at the moment) give consumers some better options
Yeah, I totally agree with what You´re saying and I too probably will end up paying for all the coming dlc:s while at the same time cursing the flawed base game. But there might still be hope. We all know that CS2 is a relatively new platform although it´s based upon CS1. They´ve said it themselfes, its a new game and as such its actually early days yet. They are starting from scratch and building it up. Still though, they should have waited at least a year in my opinion.
Yeah. I really really hope they don’t go the EA route of things. And I feel pretty confident saying at least CO doesn’t want to do that. It seems for most of what’s going on it’s all in paradox’s hands to allow the time CO needs to get things right
Oh I remember when Sim City fell. It hurt.@@brinedpickle
I almost played that game from start to finish.
I find the game is very crashy at this time, but most importantly, the ratio of employees in a building to residents in an apartment is way out of whack. If an office building is of similar size to a residential building , there should be WAY more employees working in the building than residents living in it! WAAAY more. like 4 to 1. But it's about 1 to 1 in the game, and so my cities are like 50% offices, and that just isn't what the real world is like.
The only buildings I’ve seen with a realistic amount of employees are signature buildings so I totally get this. Lots of the numbers are a bit odd I think
@@brinedpickleI think that they generally reduce all of the populations in buildings from real world numbers to reduce performance issues, and that I don't mind. The issue I have is that, even if they only have 100 residents in a residential building, they should have about 400 jobs in a similarly sized office building. Otherwise our cities wind up having way more office zoning than is realistic.
Main problem about cties skylines 2 is performance. Me with an rtx 2060 forces me to play on the lowest settings but still framrate is so bad..,
FIrst time I have been recommended your channel. Good video! ...As for thoughts... I did manage to talk myself out of pre-ordering C:S2, somehow, and at the moment I am in a wait and see status. I have reinstalled C:S1 in the meantime; I uninstalled it planning to spend the winter vacation / xmas break playing C:S2 but instead that honor went to Cyberpunk 2.x. So I don't have any thoughts on the second game except that I will check it out every time there is a Steam sale and maybe buy it then.
I preordered RIGHT before the announced it wasn’t going to be finished and that console would be delayed lol. And I had put it off SO LONG. SMH. But it is fun but I probably would have waited longer if I hadn’t already pulled the plug.
I liked this, this was a really thought out and reasonable breakdown
To save 6 mins of your time. She saying the real problem is the game has no Competition.
EA is a garbage company that has slowly sucked the life out of every title it controls. While I'm not saying Paradox and CO are going that route, this game is less than encouraging. I have to admit, I have not played Cities 2 yet, but I have watched people play it and I have to say that I am very glad that I have not bought it yet. Simply, I don't like it. All it had to do was stand on the shoulders of Cities 1, learn from it, use it, and improve on it...and it did nothing of the sort. It feels rushed, lazy, and totally lifeless. I'll continue on with Cities 1, which was/is the best City builder ever made.
Small creators are just that small creators I remember a time when I followed Biffa and was maybe one of the first 1000 subs that he had. EVERYONE STARTS small... there is a lot of freedom in a small creators package that the big boys lack. You are not beholding to the creators of CS or CS2 so you see things others may not and tell things that others may not. I love the small creators outlook don't bash yourself there is a lot of content that hasn't been covered yet so just relax and make the ride as comfortable as you can.
Thank you so much! Such kind and encouraging words and you’re so right!
Hit the nail on the head with this video! Thanks for sharing a fresh perspective on the subject too.
Subscribed, and looking forward to your content!
Glad you liked it! And welcome :)
I think you kinda nailed it with the too many games these days are a bit "gooey", the continuous development cycle and early access world has very much made this more the norm for PC games. Personally I think CS2 is a major improvement from CS1 in the base game, sadly too much doesn't work right now but we know eventually the important stuff will over time - if not officially then via the modders, same was the case for CS1. Especially when you consider the multiple ways people engage with the game
I'm with CS2 long haul, so will patiently wait for things to get better and for it to tick the boxes I want ticked, I've over 35 years of playing city builders and while I feel a little let down... I still have faith in Colossal Order and huge faith in the modding community (legends all of them)
Similar game - Highrise City, possibly the closest like CS you'll find. A a bit gooey but fun regardless. Cheers
100%. I have faith they’ll do right by all parties. At least I really hope they do and I am rooting for them. And thanks for the game suggestion!
@@brinedpickle gotta admit I am taken aback at the negativity of the community Though justified on so many levels and understandable I'm a bit over it, worn out - your video is great (hence why I commented) that you've not gone over the same things but looked at the bigger picture, this is much a reflection on the current business model (publisher and developer), everything can or might be fixed post launch.. I think this is the world we have to get used to for now, I can't remember the last game that worked as designed on launch day
She's right, why bother making it better.
Have u looked at Transport Fever (2) ? It is a different style game but u can basically mod it into a city builder. And the game itself i find is very enjoyable
I have not yet but I’ll add it to my list :) thanks for the suggestion!
I like Transport Fever 2 and have spent many, many hours with it. I have modded it to some degree, but I'll have to look into more possibilities. It would be nice to have more control over how the towns grow. It has one great advantage over Paradox-published games - DLC spam is not a problem.
1:30 in and the point isn't made. 👋
Your comments here echos my feelings i expressed on steam today.
So you're basically saying that the biggest problem of CS2 as well as The Sims 4 is YOU and all the people like you spending money on a broken game.
Ok, now tell us something we don't know already.
Yep. You got it.
Well spoken, Pickle!
I knew you were a simmer lol. Me too, but not so much as for 4, I tried with that game but I can't. I am also more of a cs1 person. I watch it, haven't played it yet. The second one I found to be boring, and lack luster. If you enjoy it, rock it and don't let anyone ruin it for you.
I’m a slave to the sims 😂🤣🤣 I can’t let it go. But sims 4 is just complete crap compared to sims 2 haha. But it’s still fun lol. And I’m still enjoying cs2 for now so yep, gonna do me and enjoy it haha :)
and id rather see big updates with bugfixes and new content instead of weekly bugfixes.
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liked, subscribed and totally agree. such a shame I had such high hopes for CSL 2 but after only 50 hours i went back to CSL 1 and for so many reasons. firstly just disappointed with the state of the release game, I get its all new and started from scratch but even still, and secondly no mods or assets, like come one the reason CSL 1 still continues on today is because of the community around it and to shun them because they are trying to chase console game sales ? big mistake in my eyes but that's just my thoughts go back to CSL 1 and continue on with life would love to see people go back to creating amazing builds again.
100% agree. They had a good thing going with a happy community and they’ve really jeopardized that with the lack of transparency and accountability etc. I hope they get it sorted but I’m not holding my breath.
Was excited waiting for this game, decided to wait, did not buy it and will not buy it... at least not yet. Staying on CS1
hm... nah.
There is still Sim City 4.
You’re just describing the detriments of late stage capitalism lol 💀
100%
Great take on this case I played last days and I see a big difference between older title but this still can be great game
Just got back to playing CS:1, it's still the superior game. With out the Steam Workshop mods CS:2 will always be a dead game.
I guess I watched the wrong video didn't hear the problem.
The game just came out they are working on it. If you hate it so much why do you keep saying it is good?
Let me know the timestamp where I said I hated it.
@@brinedpickle The whole video bitching about it. You really can't say it is good then bitch about it.
Give us CS1 content again.
I do plan to add CS1 back in :)
You are missing the point of what most have a problem with. The core mechanics, are non -existant. Its a ruse. Transport actually doesnt make a difference in terms of traffic, the economy, does not actually functions, and you have infinite money from doing nothing, which makes any economy pointless, its just mcdonalds content. consumed and forgotten and you know, really it isnt any good. The lack of everything, which Cities 1 has. They missed everything, and went with the cash grab and pushed it out early. Sadly while people keep simping for it and saying its good etc.... they wont make any drastic change. If you consume trash, and then say it is good, dont be surprised when trash is all you end up with. Everyone wants it to be good, but stop the coping, skylines 1 has a bigger player base again and people are returning to that. Give skylines 2 another year and stop pressuring them to kick out half baked products, give them time to actually fix their product, not tell them the game is good we just need a few things. It functionally does not work, it is a city placer simulator, not an actual simulator of a city.
For starters, the graphics are awful, bland, shimmery, choppy etc
Well you were a small creator! Not anymore. 😂
Haha no kidding! I’ll take it :)
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Time for EA to bring back Simcity
Oh god. No. That’d be even worse lol. We’d be paying micro-transactions in game for every new building we want to place 🤣
You want EA to bring back SimCity, with an always online/server requirement, endless MTX that WE pay for (at the end of the day that's EA for you. Money sucking leeches) and small map sizes with no option of expansion? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!! No thank you.
SimCity is still around, EA is just milking what’s left of that franchise on mobile
Give Simcity back to Maxis, then I'd agree.
It's underwhelming and boring
TL;DW, this channel is run by a perfect example of why the gaming industry is what it is today. Someone that "hopes" but keeps preordering and preordering and never getting with the program, only because "they can't deny that it makes money." Great. Your lack of denial is sure to raise standards! Thank you for being the perfect consoomer.