A couple of omissions? 1. The AH versions was slightly changed from the original Jedko version, and I was led to believe that the Compass version went back to the Jedko version . 2. Not mentioned was that L2 polished the AH version and published the 4th edition. Big old school box, heavy stock map and big hexes and bigger 5/8 inch counters. . L2 also had an extension for the south
It's great to see this old title getting the treatment a lot of those older classics so richly deserve. I was able to get a couple counter trays in my AH version and sorted the counters out by turn for quick set up & play. Jury is still out for me on picking up the GMT edition, but I'm pretty happy with the Compass version. Great vid! 👍
Great video - the AH 3rd edition was my first ever war game when I was 12 years old (bought with birthday money I think) in 1977! Fond memories and started my interest in the eastern front of WW2. Keep up the good work all the best from the UK 🇬🇧
This just now came up in my feed. You missed the L2 version which is a highly polished version and comes with larger map and pieces. For me this added impact and playability. Worth checking this out as it's an impressive version, and my favourite of the 3 versions I have.
I have two copies of the Avalon Hill version. Added the GMT version w/ mounted map at P500 prices. These old eyes will appreciate bigger counters and hexes!! Good idea for a video….
The 1976 AH game is my all-time #1 favorite. I recently got the Compass re-release of the Jedko version, it's very nice as you mentioned and I especially like the mounted map.
To clarify the versions... The FIRST was the Jedko version that has recently been (faithfully) reprinted by Compass games. Jedko bailed on the US market entirely... (in the 70s) Avalon Hill picked up the title and made four (4) editions with (very) minor changes to the rules with each edition (VERY minor between editions). That is the one just reprinted by GMT. This game (series) is my favorite on the campaign, and I cannot recommend it too highly; but you only need one copy and imho there is not much difference IN THE RULES/game-play between any of the editions. I like mounted boards and large counters, but GMT (with a mounted board) is charging insane prices.
Thank you GrumblingGrognard, you know way more about the history than I do. I agree, I like the big counters but those two maps together take up a lot of space.
Jedko never "went under". Avalon Hill merely licensed the title. Hence John Edwards continued to print versions of his own masterpiece and to remain involved in the later versions mentioned above.
@@ivanhajncl8833 fair-enough, but if you lived in the USA, it was same-as....they disappeared entirely from the game stores (not that they were in very many to begin with).
One way around the price of a mounted map is to get a sheet of plexiglass, which is what I did. Overall, it protects the map, and can be used for other games as well.
Excellent report. I am like you, the AH version was my favorite for a very long time as a kid. However, my age and eyesight have caught up to me and the larger game pieces and map by the GMT folks looks really great. So, thanks to you my friend and this great review, I'm getting this game for Father's Day. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I couldn't find a copy of the Avalon Hil one that I was happy with, so I just ordered the Compass one. Glad to know they're pretty much the same. Never could find a copy of the Avalon Hill one at my stores back then. To popular lol. Compass does very good work though. GMT I just can't get into. Even the large map looks thin. And to sell the better maps separately is a price gouge. Nice overview. Interesting thing is they're all by John. Not that i follow designers really. They used to be the guys in the credits nobody ever read.
Great video pity you dont have the original Russian Campaign by Jedko that AH bought and republished in your collection set then you could say you have them all. Thanks for showing the rest.
As I recall, the Jedko games (The African Campaign and The Russian Campaign) were groundbreaking in their day (the early 1970s) by introducing the first and second impulse movement and combat phases. Finally, armoured/panzer/mechanized units, instead of just being higher factor units bearing an armoured symbol, became more mobile than the PBI who walked to and from the battles. Exploitation became a real thing. These are important games in the development of board wargaming. Nice video comparison of the games. I have the AH version and just received the GMT 5th ed version. The GMT is very senior-friendly with its larger counters and hexes. Lots of other goodies in it as you explained. 👍
In their day they were ground breaking and they are breaking some now ground now. I agree with you Bob I do like the larger counter, but that game map is large. I going to need a bigger table.
IIRC Barbarossa (Poultron Press 1969/SPI) introduced the second movement impulse. I think their Normandy and Strategy 1 might have had it too. They didn't have the second combat phase though.
The AH weather chart still has the ability to make me shudder. If there was ever a chance for the weather to get worse for the Axis (me), I rolled it. Every. Single. Time. Nice to see them all together!
Nice vid! By chance I have the other 3 iterations of the game: TRC 4 ed. By L2 ( not my favorite) and the 2 Jedko editions. My favourite is the TRC II Jedko, also because it is the last one made directly by the original designer Edwards.
The Compass Game edition has same size counters as the original AH edition but the combat factors are larger and easier to read. The GMT edition and the L2 edition have larger counters.
I was fortunate to get the Compass Games edition, used but in excellent condition for only $25! I think the market value fell when the Deluxe version finally got released.
While the mounted maps are really nice, the color does seem to be the same (at least on my maps). Most likely it was just the lighting in my studio from one to the other. Thanks for watching Kenneth.
This is nice but I have one quibble. The Compass Games version, which I own along with the GMT/Consim World version, is based on the original Jedko game and lacks the improvements of the AH edition. Thus only a campaign scenario and no shorter scenarios. You can always use a newer version of the rules but the map lacks the different scenario start lines. I'm in the process of setting up the GMT/Consim World version which looks very nice. I don't care much about paper vs mounted boards so for me both newly published version are around the same price. If you go with the GMT version make sure that your table is large enough.
Avalon Hill produced many one objective games. Tactics 2 for example. Stalingrad as another, and more. All good games. The Compass version has different ways for it to end. Unlike other companies, you can download their instruction booklet and any tiny errata for free, without signing up. Unlike jumping through hoops for GMT or LnL. They're Point Blank errata is a book. Also they fixed the counter issue and give them in the game now. I'm sure other customers could call and ask.
Back in August, I went with the Compass version for $47 on sale because the secondary market was asking too much for beat up originals. My faith in GMT was low after a 6 year wait. My only regret is missing the variants but the lower price and mounted map of my Compass copy easily offset that for me.
Personally I still love the original. When the new ones came out I really really hated the new look of the map. Just me. Id still love to play the original maybe in Vassal, cant find players where I live to play FTF. Still great review, its nice to see an in depth discussion
Yes, it was, although John Edwards first published it with his own Australian company, JEDKO, before it was picked up by AH. Edwards has said that he wanted to make AH's Stalingrad into a better, more realistic game. Most people wouldn't call it a remake, though, as it was a very substantial redesign - basically a new game. Edwards also redesigned AH's Afrika Korps, renaming it The African Campaign, as well as AH's D-Day, renaming it Fortress Europa. All three improved on the AH original designs by some magnitudes, and all three have been republished in recent years (by Compass and GMT) and are excellent and worth having.
The GMT version has too many "optional" rules that can potentially unbalance the game. One of the reasons the Avalon Hill version was superior was that it "tweaked" the rules and clarified them. The Jedko version had a propensity for drawn games. Also, restricting the Hitler and Stalin units to rail movement ONLY prevented the end of game chasing that used to occur to get a win, as you pursued the elimination of that piece to prevent a draw, which is what happened more often than not.
Russia Besieged looks like a more advanced version of TRC. There are rules, order of battle and map changes. Some of the things that jumped out at me were the rivers run along hex sides, and ZOC does not extend across rivers. It also has an advance after combat. Price-wise it’s sitting at 99 dollars out on the Compass site. (Non-mounted map). Board game geek has a lot of info on it.
I never played Russia Besieged so I can't say Ted. But now that you asked, I started looking at that game. May have to pick that up soon. Thanks for watching.
We played the hell out of this back in the 70s, but I don't really understand the recent demand. Maybe its because you can complete it in one night? Wargaming has not stood still since the 70s. I've never really ranked this as a classic, myself. Every time I was given the choice, I'd play AH's Russian Front (which isnt a classic, either). I'd rather they had reissued Wooden Ships and Iron Men, Gunslinger, or Starship Troopers. All of those titles still have something unique about them, not replicated and improved on elsewhere. Russian front games are so common, it seems they come out yearly. Plus there was never really much demand for this game judging by the ebay prices over the years. Seems like hype. Its analogis to releasing Squad Leader, when you could just go play ASL. Even though Squad Leader ranks among my top five influential games, its worthless to me now. ASL is better.
You know Lucky 13 I am not sure why the popularity for the Russian Campaign, but I am glad for it. I do like the game and looking forward to playing the 5th edition game.
I agree that the Compass republishing of the original JEDKO version seems pointless, and I would never get it. The GMT 5th Edition, otoh, includes improvements that have been made over the years. As for the AH versions being ubiquitous on Ebay, I think it's not so much a matter of no one wanting it, but rather of many people having it. The consensus is that it is one of the the best strategic games of the Russo-German war and overall one of the the best hex-and-counter wargames that has stood the test of time, so I don't think it's hype. To each his own, of course, and it's all subjective. As for Russian Front, I used to have it, but only played it once. It didn't impress me, for various reasons that have been listed by reviewers. For one, I don't see the point in having a strategic level game of the Russo-German War that does not include Berlin on the map. If the object for winning the game for the German player is to essentially capture Moscow, perhaps along with a couple of other conditions, then at the very least the Russian player needs to be given a similar goal of capturing Berlin. Anything less is just a half-baked game, imo. I think this gets into the psychology shared by many players in this hobby, namely, that they're really only interested in invading Russia and capturing Moscow and, failing that, they are not really interested in gaming what happens afterward. Even the latest GMT 5th edition of the game has as one of the campaign victory conditions that if the Russian side does not capture Berlin, the German side wins, which I find cringey. In other words, regardless of successful a Russian advance might be, if they don't capture Berlin it basically means, "Nice try, Ivan, but despite of your many successes you are still an Untermensch and the Aryan Herrenvolk vill vin ze game! Heil Hitler!"
A couple of omissions? 1. The AH versions was slightly changed from the original Jedko version, and I was led to believe that the Compass version went back to the Jedko version . 2. Not mentioned was that L2 polished the AH version and published the 4th edition. Big old school box, heavy stock map and big hexes and bigger 5/8 inch counters. . L2 also had an extension for the south
That is true John, I don't have the 4th edition. But I need to see if I can get that one now.
Really like your videos: clear voice, no unnecessary music, no fluff. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Lightspeedlagu
I have the Compass Games version, I find it quite fun, good old school days of a wargame. Ty Nerd Workshop.
The compass one is a nice improvement to the game. all of them are fun to play.
It's great to see this old title getting the treatment a lot of those older classics so richly deserve. I was able to get a couple counter trays in my AH version and sorted the counters out by turn for quick set up & play. Jury is still out for me on picking up the GMT edition, but I'm pretty happy with the Compass version. Great vid! 👍
all three have something to offer, but I do like the Compass Version over the Ah one.
Great video - the AH 3rd edition was my first ever war game when I was 12 years old (bought with birthday money I think) in 1977! Fond memories and started my interest in the eastern front of WW2. Keep up the good work all the best from the UK 🇬🇧
Thanks Andy and Thanks for watching.
This just now came up in my feed.
You missed the L2 version which is a highly polished version and comes with larger map and pieces. For me this added impact and playability. Worth checking this out as it's an impressive version, and my favourite of the 3 versions I have.
I will have to get that version soon, thank for watching.
I have two copies of the Avalon Hill version. Added the GMT version w/ mounted map at P500 prices. These old eyes will appreciate bigger counters and hexes!!
Good idea for a video….
Thanks Born2bWidNE, I do like the big counters, but the map is rather large.
Nice job whipping out the tape measure. Did it like a pro.👍
Thanks,xPEACEx, I try to look like a pro when I can. :)
Very good video, well presented and a good clear voice. 10/10
Thank you Max, and thanks for watching.
I would say the same for all of these videos. I’d add that there’s no distracting music, the content is succinctly delivered. 10/10 indeed.
The 1976 AH game is my all-time #1 favorite. I recently got the Compass re-release of the Jedko version, it's very nice as you mentioned and I especially like the mounted map.
I agree Jobu88
Except that the Railhead rules are missing!
To clarify the versions...
The FIRST was the Jedko version that has recently been (faithfully) reprinted by Compass games. Jedko bailed on the US market entirely... (in the 70s) Avalon Hill picked up the title and made four (4) editions with (very) minor changes to the rules with each edition (VERY minor between editions). That is the one just reprinted by GMT.
This game (series) is my favorite on the campaign, and I cannot recommend it too highly; but you only need one copy and imho there is not much difference IN THE RULES/game-play between any of the editions. I like mounted boards and large counters, but GMT (with a mounted board) is charging insane prices.
Thank you GrumblingGrognard, you know way more about the history than I do. I agree, I like the big counters but those two maps together take up a lot of space.
Jedko never "went under". Avalon Hill merely licensed the title. Hence John Edwards continued to print versions of his own masterpiece and to remain involved in the later versions mentioned above.
@@ivanhajncl8833 fair-enough, but if you lived in the USA, it was same-as....they disappeared entirely from the game stores (not that they were in very many to begin with).
One way around the price of a mounted map is to get a sheet of plexiglass, which is what I did. Overall, it protects the map, and can be used for other games as well.
That is true Gowensbach, I do use plexiglass too.
Great vid... compare and contrast...great idea... thanks
Thanks for watching!
Excellent report. I am like you, the AH version was my favorite for a very long time as a kid. However, my age and eyesight have caught up to me and the larger game pieces and map by the GMT folks looks really great. So, thanks to you my friend and this great review, I'm getting this game for Father's Day. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Thanks Ed and have a great time with it.
I couldn't find a copy of the Avalon Hil one that I was happy with, so I just ordered the Compass one. Glad to know they're pretty much the same. Never could find a copy of the Avalon Hill one at my stores back then. To popular lol. Compass does very good work though. GMT I just can't get into. Even the large map looks thin. And to sell the better maps separately is a price gouge. Nice overview. Interesting thing is they're all by John. Not that i follow designers really. They used to be the guys in the credits nobody ever read.
I think you will be very happy with the Compass games version. Thanks for watching.
Great video pity you dont have the original Russian Campaign by Jedko that AH bought and republished in your collection set then you could say you have them all. Thanks for showing the rest.
If I can find it for a reasonable price, it may end up in my collection.
As I recall, the Jedko games (The African Campaign and The Russian Campaign) were groundbreaking in their day (the early 1970s) by introducing the first and second impulse movement and combat phases. Finally, armoured/panzer/mechanized units, instead of just being higher factor units bearing an armoured symbol, became more mobile than the PBI who walked to and from the battles. Exploitation became a real thing. These are important games in the development of board wargaming. Nice video comparison of the games. I have the AH version and just received the GMT 5th ed version. The GMT is very senior-friendly with its larger counters and hexes. Lots of other goodies in it as you explained. 👍
In their day they were ground breaking and they are breaking some now ground now. I agree with you Bob I do like the larger counter, but that game map is large. I going to need a bigger table.
@@NerdWorkshop1 We gamers always feel inadequate about the size of our tables...😂
@@bobrussell1957 Very true Bob, very true.
IIRC Barbarossa (Poultron Press 1969/SPI) introduced the second movement impulse. I think their Normandy and Strategy 1 might have had it too. They didn't have the second combat phase though.
@@markwilliamhumphries Thanks Mark. 👍 I think I may be wrong about African Campaign as well. It may not have had the second impulse and combat.
Thanks for the comparison
Agreed!
Thank you, very cool,How about a small playthrough?
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
I will be playing the GMT one for sure, soon.
The AH weather chart still has the ability to make me shudder. If there was ever a chance for the weather to get worse for the Axis (me), I rolled it.
Every. Single. Time.
Nice to see them all together!
I have the same dice rolling luck.
Nice vid!
By chance I have the other 3 iterations of the game: TRC 4 ed. By L2 ( not my favorite) and the 2 Jedko editions.
My favourite is the TRC II Jedko, also because it is the last one made directly by the original designer Edwards.
Thanks Roberto, and thanks for watching.
The Compass Game edition has same size counters as the original AH edition but the combat factors are larger and easier to read. The GMT edition and the L2 edition have larger counters.
Anything that makes it easier to read I am all for. Thanks for watching.
thank you for the best reveiw i have seen😄
Thank You E-4 Airman!
I was fortunate to get the Compass Games edition, used but in excellent condition for only $25! I think the market value fell when the Deluxe version finally got released.
That is a good price for the Compass one for sure. Have fun with it The Colonel.
Nice video and a well done comparisons, thank you, Sir.
Thanks for watching may friend.
@@NerdWorkshop1 you are welcome. =)
I picked up the GMT with the paper map. Does the mounted GMT map have more vivid colors? That blue ocean sure looked brighter than my paper map.
While the mounted maps are really nice, the color does seem to be the same (at least on my maps). Most likely it was just the lighting in my studio from one to the other. Thanks for watching Kenneth.
Great that you did this comparison!
Thanks!
Thanks for watching Conflict Gaming.
This is nice but I have one quibble. The Compass Games version, which I own along with the GMT/Consim World version, is based on the original Jedko game and lacks the improvements of the AH edition. Thus only a campaign scenario and no shorter scenarios. You can always use a newer version of the rules but the map lacks the different scenario start lines. I'm in the process of setting up the GMT/Consim World version which looks very nice. I don't care much about paper vs mounted boards so for me both newly published version are around the same price. If you go with the GMT version make sure that your table is large enough.
I agree Paul, the GMT version does need a good size table. Thanks for watching.
Avalon Hill produced many one objective games. Tactics 2 for example. Stalingrad as another, and more. All good games. The Compass version has different ways for it to end. Unlike other companies, you can download their instruction booklet and any tiny errata for free, without signing up. Unlike jumping through hoops for GMT or LnL. They're Point Blank errata is a book. Also they fixed the counter issue and give them in the game now. I'm sure other customers could call and ask.
Do you think you could take the counters and charts from the GMT version and use the old Avalon Hill maps to play the game?
The main thin is that the counters would be rather large for it. map seems to have the same number of hexes, but I haven't check all area yet.
Back in August, I went with the Compass version for $47 on sale because the secondary market was asking too much for beat up originals. My faith in GMT was low after a 6 year wait. My only regret is missing the variants but the lower price and mounted map of my Compass copy easily offset that for me.
The Compass game is a good one to have.
@@NerdWorkshop1 John, you have all three! Color me green. My wife would probably strangle me.
Do the mounted maps for the GMT Deluxe Edition fit inside the box or do you have to keep them separate?
they have to be separate there is not enough room in the box for them. Which is too bad.
great video!
Thanks!
Thank you for this!
Thank your for watching.
Personally I still love the original. When the new ones came out I really really hated the new look of the map. Just me. Id still love to play the original maybe in Vassal, cant find players where I live to play FTF. Still great review, its nice to see an in depth discussion
Thank you and Thanks for watching.
are the maps in the Compass version the same as the maps in GMT?
Nope, there are different
Was the AH version a remake of their original Stalingrad game? The map looks very familiar.
It was not. If memory serves, the original game was an Australian design.
I don't know GenghisVern. I never played the Stalingrad game.
Yes, it was, although John Edwards first published it with his own Australian company, JEDKO, before it was picked up by AH.
Edwards has said that he wanted to make AH's Stalingrad into a better, more realistic game. Most people wouldn't call it a remake, though, as it was a very substantial redesign - basically a new game.
Edwards also redesigned AH's Afrika Korps, renaming it The African Campaign, as well as AH's D-Day, renaming it Fortress Europa.
All three improved on the AH original designs by some magnitudes, and all three have been republished in recent years (by Compass and GMT) and are excellent and worth having.
@@robs5688 thanks, that was a great little bit of history
Very cool seeing that.
Thanks for watching WardRobe.
Discussing mainly only the physical components of each version makes this comparison worth almost nil to me.
I can understand that, Hopefully I will be playing them all soon.
The GMT version has too many "optional" rules that can potentially unbalance the game.
One of the reasons the Avalon Hill version was superior was that it "tweaked" the rules and clarified them. The Jedko version had a propensity for drawn games. Also, restricting the Hitler and Stalin units to rail movement ONLY prevented the end of game chasing that used to occur to get a win, as you pursued the elimination of that piece to prevent a draw, which is what happened more often than not.
I would agree with that. I do like Avalon Hill's version best.
Did you say 3 versions? I think you forget the 4th Edition version!!!
I did forget that one Art.
Any idea where Russia Beseiged would land between those?
Russia Besieged looks like a more advanced version of TRC. There are rules, order of battle and map changes. Some of the things that jumped out at me were the rivers run along hex sides, and ZOC does not extend across rivers. It also has an advance after combat. Price-wise it’s sitting at 99 dollars out on the Compass site. (Non-mounted map). Board game geek has a lot of info on it.
I never played Russia Besieged so I can't say Ted. But now that you asked, I started looking at that game. May have to pick that up soon. Thanks for watching.
I confess that I have all three and... Russia Besieged.
Very Nice!
No one talks about the ‘Russian Front’ game?
I never had that one, I think I will look into it.
We played the hell out of this back in the 70s, but I don't really understand the recent demand. Maybe its because you can complete it in one night? Wargaming has not stood still since the 70s. I've never really ranked this as a classic, myself. Every time I was given the choice, I'd play AH's Russian Front (which isnt a classic, either). I'd rather they had reissued Wooden Ships and Iron Men, Gunslinger, or Starship Troopers. All of those titles still have something unique about them, not replicated and improved on elsewhere. Russian front games are so common, it seems they come out yearly. Plus there was never really much demand for this game judging by the ebay prices over the years. Seems like hype. Its analogis to releasing Squad Leader, when you could just go play ASL. Even though Squad Leader ranks among my top five influential games, its worthless to me now. ASL is better.
You know Lucky 13 I am not sure why the popularity for the Russian Campaign, but I am glad for it. I do like the game and looking forward to playing the 5th edition game.
I agree that the Compass republishing of the original JEDKO version seems pointless, and I would never get it. The GMT 5th Edition, otoh, includes improvements that have been made over the years.
As for the AH versions being ubiquitous on Ebay, I think it's not so much a matter of no one wanting it, but rather of many people having it. The consensus is that it is one of the the best strategic games of the Russo-German war and overall one of the the best hex-and-counter wargames that has stood the test of time, so I don't think it's hype. To each his own, of course, and it's all subjective.
As for Russian Front, I used to have it, but only played it once. It didn't impress me, for various reasons that have been listed by reviewers. For one, I don't see the point in having a strategic level game of the Russo-German War that does not include Berlin on the map. If the object for winning the game for the German player is to essentially capture Moscow, perhaps along with a couple of other conditions, then at the very least the Russian player needs to be given a similar goal of capturing Berlin. Anything less is just a half-baked game, imo.
I think this gets into the psychology shared by many players in this hobby, namely, that they're really only interested in invading Russia and capturing Moscow and, failing that, they are not really interested in gaming what happens afterward.
Even the latest GMT 5th edition of the game has as one of the campaign victory conditions that if the Russian side does not capture Berlin, the German side wins, which I find cringey. In other words, regardless of successful a Russian advance might be, if they don't capture Berlin it basically means, "Nice try, Ivan, but despite of your many successes you are still an Untermensch and the Aryan Herrenvolk vill vin ze game! Heil Hitler!"
russian campaign or absolute war?
Never played Absolute war.
4:46
Sealed for freshness!
yes they are.
That's not all of them
No it is not, but it is all that I have :)