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I bought an extra refrigerator off Craigslist for $75 and put it in my garage just so I would have extra room for all my projects, I also make sausage that I hang to cure. So if you've got the room.
Guys, I finally did a 2week fermented country bread. 80% bread flour & 20%whole wheat flour. The flavour was incredible! I ate the whole loaf the same day, lol. The rise wasn't the best like in the video, and the crumb structure was quite close, but damn did it taste good. I'd definitely recommend trying it out.
WOW !! The longest for me was 11 days, and the resulting bread was indeed much darker and denser in crumb structure. It did not even taste like “regular” bread but took on a wine-like flavour, which I did not mind at all and actually enjoyed and thought kinda funny.
Here's a coincidence. Last weekend I made some dough (flour, salt, water at 60% hydration) which has been kept in the fridge and from which I have been taking 200g to pan cook, like a naan, for lunch. So I've had 2, 3 4 & 5 day fermented bread this week - just finished the last one as I watched the video! Observations: The longer it was kept the easier it was to shape. The 5 days was distinctly "wetter" in handling than the 2 even though one might expect some losses from evaporation. The flavour improved throughout, the 5 day was _very_ nice. However the appearance after cooking was best - which is to say most naan-just-brought-to-the-restaurant-table like - for the 2 day. The longer it fermented the looser it got and the flatter it sat in the pan even on the flipped side so while the first one had lovely charred at the dome big bubbles the last was much flatter and a more even golden brown when cooked.
I just made my first cold fermentation baguette. Left it in the fridge for 3 days. The crumb was ridiculously good, there was a spiderweb texture and the flavor was amazing. I'll have to play around with the yeast, folds, and timing, but there's so much potential with this method. Not to mention the convenience!
I got lazy recently and slept on my pizza making after prepping my dough and had left my dough in the fridge for nearly two weeks. And I’m glad I did because the results were magical. The dough flavor, smell and texture was an incredible experience. So now I’m inspired to be more picky with my process. The recipe I use is also new to me, it uses a little wine and honey and I add extra sugar to my yeast. It feels like an all the bells and whistles dough and I’ve come a long way from making disaster too dry and heavy doughs that just didn’t perform, now I get pizza bubbles and it has taken me years to get here. I came here wanting to learn more about the fermentation process because I was on the verge of rushing a dough for the weekend but changed my mind. I will wait. I also make sure to use my mixer and to knead the dough until smooth and firm, I noticed it gets less sticky this way the longer you knead, which stops me from adding and adding unnecessary flour, I can keep the moisture and hydration. I also started using pizza pans instead of trying to toss the pizza directly into my pizza oven. The toss always possessed me to add more and more unnecessary flour and produced disasters. So I’m not a fancy pizza chef but I feel pretty good currently.
2 days is the longest I have done because I thought that leaving it for longer would over proof it and it would be no good. Now I know differently. Thank you.
Finally learned, HOW slow fermentation improves the flavor! You always talk a lot about it but I never did that because I didn't know HOW it improves the flavor. It is hard to follow something without knowing proper reasons. But because of this video, my dough has been sent to the refrigerator for the first time! Following the steps from the "Cold bulk fermentation" video and will bake it in 2-3 days! You should really rename your channel to something like "Baking Science by ChainBaker" or something like that! I am serious, otherwise the name will simply sound like any other generic cooking channel.
One day a few years ago I experimented with making no-knead bread, and I left the dough inside the cold oven and forgot about it. 😕 After about 24 hours of proofing, I remembered it was there. Though I figured it was ruined, I used it anyway. Best-tasting bread I ever made! 😁
I was making the new and improved basic bread but had to leave the dough in the fridge for a couple of days longer than planned and I didn't want to overdo anything, so this video was a huge relief to watch. I'm not over a week yet. Off to shape a lovely loaf to enjoy later today! :) I appreciate your scientific approach and I'm grateful that you share the results with us.
I had an 8 day cold ferment, it was supposed to be 3 but just kept having things delay it. It certainly wasn't my prettiest load but everyone agreed it was the tastiest.
Love this video, and the results are so interesting! I just happened to run my own 'experiment' in long cold fermentation with my sourdough. Put the dough into the fridge, was planning on a 36/48 hr cold ferment (I usually do 24 hr) then got sick with covid. Anyway...the loaf fermented for about 5 days.... When I felt better, I baked it off. The taste was fantastic, and no large holes below the top crust....! Although I probably won't be doing this regularly, I sure will play with this! Thanks!!
I have been doing experiments rather like yours, except some of mine are by default. All my doughs between 2 and 7 days have turned out well. But I forgot one for somewhere between 3 and 4 weeks. It ended up in the back of the fridge where it was cold enough to partially freeze. When I looked at it, it was mostly black on the top, not moldy, but the cause of the color was not discernible. And it was partially frozen. I threw it away. I like to make dough ahead of time because I never know when I will want fresh bread, so I want to be ready to bake in a few hours. My system works for me but obviously has some limitations. Thanks for the science. I can observe differences but you give them meaning.
I wanted to make a cold fermentation bread last year and I figured ok I will let it rest here for 24 hours. Thing is at the time my fridge was really packed and I didn't notice the dough that I placed on the top behind the eggs. 11 days later I noticed the container and I was "omg this will be inedible". It looked like a web of a spider and it had a strong smell of alcohol or beer (I barely put in there the tiniest pinch of yeast). Thing is I decided to bake it , thinking that it was going to be ruined. Nope after preshaping like you showed us in the channel I got similar results to your 14 day ferment, not very springy and had a dark colour, but damn it tasted like some artisan oldschool country bakery bread. Best bread I ever made, pity it was such a small roll that I made as a test. Thanks to your video I think I will try again, just for 24 hours (and this time I will put a reminder on my phone to notify me that I need to bake that).
These principles of baking videos are awesome. I've learned more about baking from you then I have from any book, article or bread baker RUclipsr out there. I no knead and cold bulk ferment my dough for about a week but started pinching back a piece of dough before baking it. I then add that piece of old dough into my new dough and let it cold bulk ferment for another week before doing it all over again. That small piece of old dough adds an extra kick of flavor. it also feels Like I have a sourdough starter without having to feed it. ...I bake once a week so this routine works great for me.
Thanks, I wished I had started doing it a lot sooner. I've noticed the quantity you use and how long your patè fermentèe has been in circulation contribute to the breads final taste.
@@ChainBaker Re Sourdough: I have had my 200 grams of Fed starter 'ready to use' and then got too busy to bake, and just put it in the fridge. A couple of days later, I used that starter without feeding again, and just let my dough cold ferment for about 48-50 hours. I figured (because it was easier, haha) that rather than 'feed' the starter again, which I believe would have been the correct way, I would just let the starter feed itself, since I added it to all that flour and water anyways. To me, it seemed to work perfectly...but maybe I'm just not that fussy. The loaf looked and tasted great, to myself and my family, so I often do it this way now.
Thanks, Charlie. What a fun & informative comparison video. I cold fermented pizza dough for 6 days - once. The dough was tricky to work with as it tore very easily, which is not ideal for pizza making. Although 6 day dough tasted fine, working with it stressed me out too much. In Peter Reinhart's "Artisan Breads Every Day", he promotes the use of cold bulk fermentation as a way for the home baker to be able to bake breads more frequently. However, he recommends up to 4 days cold fermentation as he thinks the quality declines too much beyond that. Based on my experience and this excellent video, 5 days is my max, especially for pizza dough.
Rieko I have found if you re ball the dough the night before you plan to cook it it is easier to shape when doing more than a 3 day CF. We just used a 5 day CF dough for pizza and I reballed at 9am and put it back in fridge, then took it out at 330pm then baked at around 6pm and it was great pizza. So try reballing the day before and see how it goes
I used to always bake some bread, but never knew how to properly bake one. I only did what a recipe would say to do. One day, I was planning to go out with some of the boys, for one's birthday celebration, but I had internet issues that prevented me to get in touch with them. So I decided to make a bread dough, which we were in need since there was not much left. After the first bulk fermentation, I had placed the doughs in these molds for the last rise, then I managed to get internet connection to talk with them, and they said the party had started already. So I decided to leave it on the fridge. That was the best bread I've ever made. It stayed on the fridge for a whole day I think, and it had such a great taste to it. Now that I'm learning more about bread baking in this channel, maybe I'll give a go on a 7 days dough.
I'm very glad to have found this video. I always did a two week fermentation and recently people have been telling that it can't be done. Was thinking I was going crazy there for a bit! Two weeks if honestly the best flavour. I generally add my spices in when I mix the dough; garlic, thyme and oregano, and let it stay in the dough as it ages. The flavour is to die for!
Perfect timing! I’ve been wondering about it, since I don’t always have the time to make and bake bread in the same day.. two days are the best for me! Thanks for the detailed comparisons..🙏🏻❤️
Thanks ❤. This is very helpful! I made you cold ferment w/nice ear bread again. This time, after 24-hrs in refrigerator- it had not fermented much at all. I think my yeast is losing its potency. Therefore, I let it ferment in frig for an additional 20 hours, & then continued with your recipe. It came out perfectly! Understanding the science is greatly needed when baking bread. Thanks again.
Yes this was a great video lots of information I listen to it several times. I have been using cold fermentation for awhile and I like the bread at about three days from only yeast is the best. Bread that is made with in the same day without cold fermentation as you said you can end up with a Beautiful looking loaf that is on the bland side.. What I like best is a combination of yeast and sourdough starter. At my temperature in Panama in an air-conditioned house at about 24° C. I use 10% sourdough starter and about and eighth of a teaspoon of yeast I mix it at about 72% hydration I do several folds within the first hour. That I let it rise at 24° 6 to 8 hours till approaching near double in size. It can go in the fridge now for one to two days until I'm ready. The flavor is perfect to me at that point. The combinations of sourdough and yeast and cold have developed some flavor without being too strong. I also have an apartment in Pereira Colombia with no AC and daytime temperatures 24° C and nighttime temperatures of about 15° C so the strategy there is totally different
Another wonderful video! It's very freeing for me😊. I bake bread less than I would like because I am never quite sure if I'll actually get to it the next day when I 'should'. But this video has shown me that I don't need to worry about getting the timing as exactly right as I though. Thank you!😁💖
I am going to make your simple donut recipe this weekend, except that I am going to make it cold fermented. I can't decide between 48h or 24h, but after seeing this video I think I'm going with the 48h route. Wish me luck!
Thanks for sharing this video and going into great detail! I have left my dough in the fridge for 24+ hours before baking before and loved the results too. For me, I have found the sweet spot of ONE full day of being refrigerated, before baking. Keep in mind, my bread recipe is an enriched dough recipe (challah/brioche hybrid that I customized to my liking). And for what it's worth, I had left my dough in the fridge for 3 days once - not by choice mind you, kitchen was just too busy to bake the days prior - and the taste was, let's just say...interesting. It had, as you noted, an acidic taste..I thought it was a bit sour and tangy - which I was NOT looking for. Also the strength of the bread was weaker than my normal method of one full day. I realized at that point that I like cold proofing for a full day, but not that much more longer. That said, it's great to see that the bread is STILL edible after 2 weeks. Not that I would ever do that. But it's nice to know just how long it *could* last if someone were to ask me. Again, appreciate that you take your time to create this videos and share these comparison videos that provide us with useful and helpful insights about bread baking. Definitely feel like I've increased my knowledge of bread baking from viewing your videos on your channel. Thanks again for that!
I have only just started long fridge fermentation. I have been doing 7 days and love it! I just make next weeks dough while the current dough is baking. I might try a two week, I mean the tupperware I use was a two-pack so it only makes sense!
Excellent video Charlie! Sooo much better than someone (who claims to be an expert/cause it seems like everybody does that!) telling other bakers what to do, and why it will work/or fail. I've found out that some of those statements just aren't true, or, at least, not true based on my own experience. As an example of this, I have mixed my salt into my water after I have hydrated my yeast in there (so maybe after 5 mins) so that I know my salt has good distribution. I have not seen any difference, even though my salt obviously had close personal contact with my yeast. Thanks for the video!
I can make a wonderful pizza by learning baking principles from your channel! By using your techniques, it helps me reducing waste/trial&error process. I feel lucky that I found your channel! 😁 Thank you so much!!
I have done 7 days a few times, and only once it took me 10 days to get to the bake. I liked them all all. I did not adjust yeast, but did fold from time to time.
In US a fridge is reliably at 40F/5C, or course they have zones like the veggie drawer but it obviously intended for 40F, if I recall milk shelf live is based on 40F. But a wine fridge might go up to 50-60F/10-15C.
This is an amazing channel for bread recipes, instruction, and techniques! I can certainly appreciate the enormous amount of time it takes you to produce and edit a single instructional/experimental video - you cover every aspect an alternate procedure of the recipe. For the record, I deleted all my other favourite bread channels and now only use this channel. Everything I ever wanted to know about bread is right here. You're the master baker! And the 1970's style background porno music in some of your videos is quite entertaining. New subscriber...for the bread recipes ;)
I have just let a dough growing for 2 days, ye color and taste are quite different from the same day rise bread. I was just curious about the GLUTEN. Good to know it’s go down when fermenting for longer time
Thanks for that! Supergreat! What I miss/ would like to know or learn is how to calculate the right amount of yeast or sourdough starter depending on the given fermentation time
There are too many variables, so that would be quite difficult to tell. Dough temperature, room temperature, ingredients, hydration. The best you can do is set a baseline and work from there.
I use to build industrial bakerys, the big stuff. I've seen a lot of dough-proofing calamities. The incidents usually happen on new bakery startups. One time production left 4 filled 1000-pound dough thoughs in a corner overnight (bad mixs), when I came in at 5 am the dough had covery about 5000 square feet of floor. One time a management team thought it would be ok to fill a large trash compactor with dough overnight, "it'll be cold tonght" they said. The compacter was ripped from the building and pushed a good 30 feet as "The Blob" expanded. 1/2 inch steel plate was torn and twisted, 1-inch wedge anchors were ripped out of the cement.
@@philip6502 5 to 10 250-pound batches of experimental pita dough. All the trash mixed in made it look like some sort of holiday loaf, wish camraphones existed back then...
I love these comparison videos! Seeing the differences and understanding the process really helps me with this new hobby. Thank you so much. Do you happen to have an easy Borodinsky bread recipe? I was going to try just adding molasses to your Belarusian Rye recipe, but have not worked up the courage yet.
They look delicious! One of my kids ended up allergic to gluten and we are on a gluten free baking mission. We've been having fun with making sourdough starters. Any chance you could produce a gluten free loaf/english muffins video?
You know what I really love about your videos? Well, everything, lol, but I have found that I am becoming a better baker because now I UNDERSTAND why I’m supposed to do stuff instead of just trying to memorize steps. I am beginning to see what is happening with my dough, and intuit what I need to do next. Thank you for sharing these videos. Do you have a Patreon account I can support?
Thank you so much Sandi that is very kind of you to say and thank you for offering your support :) It is definitely more valuable to learn the principles than just individual recipes. I'll keep them coming 😁 You can support the channel on my ko-fi.com page linked in the video description. Thank you 🤩
Hi Charlie ! The longest I’ve ever left my dough in the fridge for cold fermentation before baking is 11 days. The crumb is indeed surprisingly a lot darker and denser, and the flavour is almost wine-like and quite strong, which I do not mind at all, and does not taste much like bread, therefore kinda funny.
Your making it easy to get recharged about baking bread again. I'm in the process of making a 24 hour ferment at room temperature. (Trying to get a sourdough flavor without sourdough starter.) I'm just to forgetful and lazy to use a starter.
i try to use around 1/4 teaspoon yeast for 1kg of flour. It takes more time to get going, but i prefer the taste of less yeast and longer ferment, always at least 2 days in the fridge after an initial rise at room temp.
I have an issue NOT addressed here. I did a scald, yes, yudane if you will, but w/ a high protein whole wheat flour. 600g Bronze Chief Red wheat berry wheat whole wheat flour, a fine milled flour perfect for 100% ww bread. I set the 2 bowls in my 3°C (sometimes -4°C!) garage. Then, due to health, I couldn't do anything w/ the dough. The bowls were tightly sealed against air, dust, & creatures. But in the last wk or so the temps have risen into the 19°C or so, & the dough fermented. No mold or anything nasty, just more acidic than what my family would like, probably. I'm a San Francisco sourdough girl so I'm good. I added no yeast, or salt, just water. It looks fine, I've taken 5cm off the surface, to be sure, but I'm thinking of adding about 27% of light bread flour, 75% water, & some yeast (1 or 2g), along w/ some honey, to counteract the acidity, and improve the flavor. I'm NOT a professional baker, & I've only been home baking about 12 yrs, so this is me baking by the seat of my pants. ANY advice would be GREATLY appreciated. The whole wheat flour is pretty expensive for me, on my fixed income, but I have a lack of vitamin absorption issues, which is why I need to bake my own ww bread. Not throwing a pity party, just the facts. Can't add eggs, or vinegar to anything, other allergies, just limits things. Why I'm asking for help. From ANYONE w/ more experience than myself. ❤
I'd use that mix as a flavour improver. Add it to any bread recipe replacing around 20% of the total flour and water with it. You can move it to the fridge if there is space. It should keep for even longer.
Absolute perfect timing on the video. The old flour I used to get to make bread ran out of stock in the market and the only other option was one that already had yeast in it, which didn't even say how much of, though I could only assume was a ton due to the example recipe on the package's side being an hour and a half or so long from kneading to baking total. I was already getting paranoid over leaving it overnight in the fridge with no clue of its yeast content for such thing.
This video has encouraged me to experiment with long fermentation. I ground some barley and spelt into flour mixed them with water and yeast and threw the dough into the fridge. I am going to leave it until sunday morning, then I will bake it. I didn't lowered amount of yeast so I am curious about effects. I will give you my feedback. Thanks bro!
@@ChainBaker ok, I did it. The dough was fermenting in my fridge for exactly 80 hours. Then I quickly shaped it and cut a cross on it(you know, for directions of the world). I baked it in a glass baking dish(I don't have proper dutch oven). It wasn't fluffy, but it had nice golden brown crust. It was danse inside with lots of holes(some of them huuuge). The scent was very yeasty and the flavour... Yeast, with a pinch of sourness(zero salt btw). Freaking delicious, I ate whole loaf at once(it was small, I used only 200 grams of flour). It was propably the greatest bread I have ever baked. And I am also experimenting with multigrain breads, today I made overnight pan-baked rolls made with 1:1 whole wheat flour and oat flakes(very satiating). I think in some more or less near future I will try sourdough. Thank you for your videos, you are big inspiration for me. Greetings from Poland!
Cold fermentation really opened up a lot of possibilities for me. I can use much warmer water for the mix, since I'll be cooling the dough in the fridge right away. With warm water, like 35-40c, the dough hydrates super quickly, reaching the consistency equivalent to an hour of autolyse. Because kneading is quick and easy, I can do more of it. I think this way the folding steps can be skipped? But I have to test.
A side note - the longest I have fermented is about 7 days - when I started baking no-knead bread I had read that the extended fermentation time would add more "tang" to the final bread (like a faux sourdough). That was before I started to make sourdough bread - seems so long ago (July 2021).
@@ChainBaker Because it "looked funny it's a bit wrinkly and it did not gain much volume" (your words, not mine - haha) 😉 Or did it taste just a bit too "gamey and fermented"?
Love the videos! Could you do a video on pretzel buns? I've watched your pretzel videos, but not sure how to incorporate the techniques into a burger bun.
I watched this video and needed to try the 14 day dough! I'm very curious about how it will taste. I just finished mixing the ingredients and put it in the fridge. Looking forward to the results :)
The dough has been on the fridge for a week and it's developing a weird color, its surface is becoming gray-ish. I'm not sure that would be very safe to eat :/
@@ChainBaker Sadly it did develop mold at the 14 day mark. The grayness wasn't even in the first place, like in your video, it was patchy, and eventually I found some fuzzy mold. Too bad! I'll try only 1 week next time.
Amazing, I didn't wanted to toss a 10 day sourdough dough that I had, instead I'm going to experiment as you said making pancakes hihi, lets see, thank you so much!
Great stuff! I've tried cold fermenting for a day or two, and really couldn't tell much of a difference. Now I know I need to try 4, 5, or even more days! Separate question: I wonder how this experiment would look with poolish (I make bread from poolish a couple of times a week). Can you cold ferment poolish for days like this?
Good question. Poolish is a lot wetter, so it should ferment more actively. It may reach the same stage as the 14 day fermented dough in a shorter time I'd say.
I never use the windowpane test. Here is a video in which I show that even kneading is not necessary most of the time ruclips.net/video/1knjFj923MQ/видео.html
Enjoying your videos while I attempt poolish bread making. Have made 5 loaves and having trouble getting them into the dutch oven, they end up more on one side. Do you have a tip for getting it just right? Have started a cold ferment, looking forward to trying the bread!
If it's a deep pot, then you can use a larger piece of baking paper which you can cut in such a way that it has handles..use them to lower the load into the pot and center it perfectly.
is there a video where the ratios of ingredients are listed, including the amount of yeast which depends on how many days each loaf is left to ferment? Thanks
There is no way of standardizing that since your fridge may be warmer or cooler than mine. Your flour may be different and the dough temperature too. It will vary from dough to dough too if other ingredients are added.The best you can do is experiment.
Sweet video! I would've never expected the 14 day to change that much. Also, what bowls and lids are those that you used to ferment? They looked really nice. I looked on both your affiliate Amazon links and I couldn't find them
For anyone else looking it comes up as: IKEA 365+ Food container with lid, glass and they have a few different sizes. Like 5 dolla, US. I shall go get some soon lol. The silicone top ones look really nice as well (and they say they seal well), and wouldn't have that issue with the dough rising too much and touching the gasket as seen in the video.
I went and bought 3 of them with the same lids. It's like 3 dollars a bowl and 3 a lid. Very worth it! They're so good in hand and the seal comes off for easy cleaning too
I’m still looking to see if you’ve already done this, but have you ever done an experiment to ferment a wheat dough long enough to destroy all the gluten? Would it make it gluten-free? Best wishes 🍻
Two weeks was the longest for me. I reckon at some point it would turn liquid 😄 but I don't think it would ever be gluten free no matter how long it is fermented for. It would be more easily digestible though that's for sure.
👍👍👍👍👍 - is your next experiment to repeat this but to add the yeast on the day you bake them all? Just to see how much of the flavour comes from the fermenting only - and not the yeast. The yeast isn't very active at the temp of the fridge so how much sugars from the flour could it have eaten anyway?
I sometimes meal prep pizza by making 7 balls of dough and storing them in the fridge so that I can make one pizza each day of a week, so as I progress throughbout the week the dough that I am using is more and more fermented. To me, the flavors become more complex and interesting as the dough ferments longer and I feel like I could make even more than 7 and still have great pizza dough by the end.
I have done similar things in the past. For me I found that the ideal point in time was 5 days fermentation. That gave the dough the best flavour while still maintaining enough gluten strength to be easy to make a thin crust pizza out of. By day 6 and certainly day 7 I found the crust would start to tear too easily.
if you were to cold ferment pizza dough, when do you divide the dough? Assuming a 5 or 6 day cold ferment, do you bulk ferment for 2, or 5/6 days? Divide the next day, or the day before or day of baking? Does it matter when you divide the dough?
I would divide it only after bulk fermentation. Then shape and let it rise again before stretching & baking. But you could try and divide the day before baking and then bake right from the fridge. Try and see what works better for you.
so if i want flavor but i don’t want to compromise the strength of the gluten, at what point in time does the ph drop too low ? i still want a nice airy rise
My current batch of dough is about 2 weeks left overs from pizza, it's also had sourdough starter added to it and I have been struggling with dense looking bread but it tastes good and is soft and not dense. This video makes sense to my novice baking mind, thanks. My question is, if I make a new batch and mix it 50/50 will it give a more desirable, open crumb?
It depends. Slow fermented dough has weaker gluten, so getting an open crumb could be a problem. I would add less of the pre-ferment and instead increase the hydration a bit.
@@ChainBaker i tried it last night at 40-50% old dough but it was only in the fridge for 7 hours, more airy but taste was non existent, I thought it would have scaled a bit better in the flavour department
Another greatly informative video! I never leave my dough more than overnight (I'm a practical baker :D) but I find that proofing it for longer dries out the surface of the dough. How can we counter that? Spray some water on it?
If I want to do a long cold ferment like 2 weeks with sourdough bread, should I do the 1st ferment/bulk ferment the dough at room temperature at all before putting it in the fridge or just mix the ingredients and put it in the fridge right away?
It depends on your starter. Is it active enough that it will ferment the dough even from a cold start? I know mine struggles with that. But then again I have never left a naturally leavened dough in the fridge for that long. Personally, I would give it an hour at room temp and then pop it in the fridge.
Hi Mr. Baker (can I call you Chain?) Thanks for this amazing video. I'm reading your blog post and I have a question: "Alcoholic fermentation occurs at lower temperatures and in the absence of oxygen." So, is it the sealed container that you place the dough in that causes the absence of oxygen? I love to bake, but chemistry is apparently a lot harder for me than most folks. Again, thanks!
Hey Chainbaker do you have any advice on how to make tasteful breads for a family member who needs to keep his sodium down? Do you know of anything I can replace the salt with to make it taste nice?
Would an enriched dough benefit by long fermentation? I have done an overnight ferment for my Japanese milk bread and it was fabulous, but I wonder if a few more days could make it even better?
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Out of curiosity I would like to know what was the fridge shelve temperature. I guess more than 4°C
5c
My fridge space is always at max capacity. Sourdough starter, tortilla balls, pizza doughs, bulk ferments, loaf pans... what have you done to me sir
You can slow ferment at room temperature too 😉😁 the more the better! 😅
I bought an extra refrigerator off Craigslist for $75 and put it in my garage just so I would have extra room for all my projects, I also make sausage that I hang to cure. So if you've got the room.
I agree. I also have sour dough discard pancake batter. Bread life. It’s a thing.
Guys, I finally did a 2week fermented country bread. 80% bread flour & 20%whole wheat flour. The flavour was incredible! I ate the whole loaf the same day, lol.
The rise wasn't the best like in the video, and the crumb structure was quite close, but damn did it taste good.
I'd definitely recommend trying it out.
Awesome!
WOW !! The longest for me was 11 days, and the resulting bread was indeed much darker and denser in crumb structure. It did not even taste like “regular” bread but took on a wine-like flavour, which I did not mind at all and actually enjoyed and thought kinda funny.
Do you ferment in the fridge or outside for 7 days
@@philommilong7090 In the fridge, covered with cling film or something.
Here's a coincidence. Last weekend I made some dough (flour, salt, water at 60% hydration) which has been kept in the fridge and from which I have been taking 200g to pan cook, like a naan, for lunch. So I've had 2, 3 4 & 5 day fermented bread this week - just finished the last one as I watched the video!
Observations: The longer it was kept the easier it was to shape. The 5 days was distinctly "wetter" in handling than the 2 even though one might expect some losses from evaporation. The flavour improved throughout, the 5 day was _very_ nice. However the appearance after cooking was best - which is to say most naan-just-brought-to-the-restaurant-table like - for the 2 day. The longer it fermented the looser it got and the flatter it sat in the pan even on the flipped side so while the first one had lovely charred at the dome big bubbles the last was much flatter and a more even golden brown when cooked.
These comparison videos have improved my baking by 10x over the past few months. Thanks Chain!
His NAME is Charlie, he is a chain baker. Just like I am a chain smoker @ 20 smokes a day!👃👃😍🥰
😆
I just made my first cold fermentation baguette. Left it in the fridge for 3 days. The crumb was ridiculously good, there was a spiderweb texture and the flavor was amazing. I'll have to play around with the yeast, folds, and timing, but there's so much potential with this method. Not to mention the convenience!
You are by far my favorite content maker for breads! Thank you for this!
Cheers! :)
I got lazy recently and slept on my pizza making after prepping my dough and had left my dough in the fridge for nearly two weeks. And I’m glad I did because the results were magical. The dough flavor, smell and texture was an incredible experience. So now I’m inspired to be more picky with my process. The recipe I use is also new to me, it uses a little wine and honey and I add extra sugar to my yeast. It feels like an all the bells and whistles dough and I’ve come a long way from making disaster too dry and heavy doughs that just didn’t perform, now I get pizza bubbles and it has taken me years to get here. I came here wanting to learn more about the fermentation process because I was on the verge of rushing a dough for the weekend but changed my mind. I will wait. I also make sure to use my mixer and to knead the dough until smooth and firm, I noticed it gets less sticky this way the longer you knead, which stops me from adding and adding unnecessary flour, I can keep the moisture and hydration. I also started using pizza pans instead of trying to toss the pizza directly into my pizza oven. The toss always possessed me to add more and more unnecessary flour and produced disasters. So I’m not a fancy pizza chef but I feel pretty good currently.
2 days is the longest I have done because I thought that leaving it for longer would over proof it and it would be no good. Now I know differently. Thank you.
Finally learned, HOW slow fermentation improves the flavor! You always talk a lot about it but I never did that because I didn't know HOW it improves the flavor. It is hard to follow something without knowing proper reasons.
But because of this video, my dough has been sent to the refrigerator for the first time! Following the steps from the "Cold bulk fermentation" video and will bake it in 2-3 days!
You should really rename your channel to something like "Baking Science by ChainBaker" or something like that! I am serious, otherwise the name will simply sound like any other generic cooking channel.
One day a few years ago I experimented with making no-knead bread, and I left the dough inside the cold oven and forgot about it. 😕 After about 24 hours of proofing, I remembered it was there. Though I figured it was ruined, I used it anyway. Best-tasting bread I ever made! 😁
Would be nice to see the same thing with sourdough instead of yeast! :)
I was making the new and improved basic bread but had to leave the dough in the fridge for a couple of days longer than planned and I didn't want to overdo anything, so this video was a huge relief to watch. I'm not over a week yet. Off to shape a lovely loaf to enjoy later today! :) I appreciate your scientific approach and I'm grateful that you share the results with us.
I had an 8 day cold ferment, it was supposed to be 3 but just kept having things delay it. It certainly wasn't my prettiest load but everyone agreed it was the tastiest.
Now thats a great typo
@@juts89 Ohh man that's what I get for using mobile I guess.
Pretty funny though 😅
I am a chef who somewhat always struggled with baking but I'm starting to enjoy it more with your explanations. Thank you for making these videos
Love this video, and the results are so interesting! I just happened to run my own 'experiment' in long cold fermentation with my sourdough. Put the dough into the fridge, was planning on a 36/48 hr cold ferment (I usually do 24 hr) then got sick with covid.
Anyway...the loaf fermented for about 5 days....
When I felt better, I baked it off.
The taste was fantastic, and no large holes below the top crust....!
Although I probably won't be doing this regularly, I sure will play with this!
Thanks!!
I have been doing experiments rather like yours, except some of mine are by default. All my doughs between 2 and 7 days have turned out well. But I forgot one for somewhere between 3 and 4 weeks. It ended up in the back of the fridge where it was cold enough to partially freeze. When I looked at it, it was mostly black on the top, not moldy, but the cause of the color was not discernible. And it was partially frozen. I threw it away. I like to make dough ahead of time because I never know when I will want fresh bread, so I want to be ready to bake in a few hours. My system works for me but obviously has some limitations. Thanks for the science. I can observe differences but you give them meaning.
I wanted to make a cold fermentation bread last year and I figured ok I will let it rest here for 24 hours. Thing is at the time my fridge was really packed and I didn't notice the dough that I placed on the top behind the eggs. 11 days later I noticed the container and I was "omg this will be inedible". It looked like a web of a spider and it had a strong smell of alcohol or beer (I barely put in there the tiniest pinch of yeast). Thing is I decided to bake it , thinking that it was going to be ruined. Nope after preshaping like you showed us in the channel I got similar results to your 14 day ferment, not very springy and had a dark colour, but damn it tasted like some artisan oldschool country bakery bread. Best bread I ever made, pity it was such a small roll that I made as a test. Thanks to your video I think I will try again, just for 24 hours (and this time I will put a reminder on my phone to notify me that I need to bake that).
These principles of baking videos are awesome. I've learned more about baking from you then I have from any book, article or bread baker RUclipsr out there.
I no knead and cold bulk ferment my dough for about a week but started pinching back a piece of dough before baking it. I then add that piece of old dough into my new dough and let it cold bulk ferment for another week before doing it all over again. That small piece of old dough adds an extra kick of flavor. it also feels Like I have a sourdough starter without having to feed it.
...I bake once a week so this routine works great for me.
Awesome! That's paté fermentee 😎
Thanks, I wished I had started doing it a lot sooner. I've noticed the quantity you use and how long your patè fermentèe has been in circulation contribute to the breads final taste.
@@ChainBaker Re Sourdough: I have had my 200 grams of Fed starter 'ready to use' and then got too busy to bake, and just put it in the fridge. A couple of days later, I used that starter without feeding again, and just let my dough cold ferment for about 48-50 hours.
I figured (because it was easier, haha) that rather than 'feed' the starter again, which I believe would have been the correct way, I would just let the starter feed itself, since I added it to all that flour and water anyways.
To me, it seemed to work perfectly...but maybe I'm just not that fussy.
The loaf looked and tasted great, to myself and my family, so I often do it this way now.
Thanks, Charlie. What a fun & informative comparison video.
I cold fermented pizza dough for 6 days - once. The dough was tricky to work with as it tore very easily, which is not ideal for pizza making. Although 6 day dough tasted fine, working with it stressed me out too much.
In Peter Reinhart's "Artisan Breads Every Day", he promotes the use of cold bulk fermentation as a way for the home baker to be able to bake breads more frequently. However, he recommends up to 4 days cold fermentation as he thinks the quality declines too much beyond that. Based on my experience and this excellent video, 5 days is my max, especially for pizza dough.
Rieko I have found if you re ball the dough the night before you plan to cook it it is easier to shape when doing more than a 3 day CF. We just used a 5 day CF dough for pizza and I reballed at 9am and put it back in fridge, then took it out at 330pm then baked at around 6pm and it was great pizza. So try reballing the day before and see how it goes
I used to always bake some bread, but never knew how to properly bake one. I only did what a recipe would say to do.
One day, I was planning to go out with some of the boys, for one's birthday celebration, but I had internet issues that prevented me to get in touch with them. So I decided to make a bread dough, which we were in need since there was not much left. After the first bulk fermentation, I had placed the doughs in these molds for the last rise, then I managed to get internet connection to talk with them, and they said the party had started already. So I decided to leave it on the fridge.
That was the best bread I've ever made. It stayed on the fridge for a whole day I think, and it had such a great taste to it. Now that I'm learning more about bread baking in this channel, maybe I'll give a go on a 7 days dough.
I'm very glad to have found this video. I always did a two week fermentation and recently people have been telling that it can't be done. Was thinking I was going crazy there for a bit! Two weeks if honestly the best flavour. I generally add my spices in when I mix the dough; garlic, thyme and oregano, and let it stay in the dough as it ages. The flavour is to die for!
Perfect timing!
I’ve been wondering about it, since I don’t always have the time to make and bake bread in the same day.. two days are the best for me!
Thanks for the detailed comparisons..🙏🏻❤️
Thanks ❤. This is very helpful! I made you cold ferment w/nice ear bread again. This time, after 24-hrs in refrigerator- it had not fermented much at all. I think my yeast is losing its potency. Therefore, I let it ferment in frig for an additional 20 hours, & then continued with your recipe. It came out perfectly! Understanding the science is greatly needed when baking bread. Thanks again.
Another excellent comparison video on a topic that's relevant to most of us busy home bakers these days.
I love these little experimental videos with EXPLANATION!! THANK YOU SO MUCH! 👍
Yes this was a great video lots of information I listen to it several times.
I have been using cold fermentation for awhile and I like the bread at about three days from only yeast is the best. Bread that is made with in the same day without cold fermentation as you said you can end up with a Beautiful looking loaf that is on the bland side..
What I like best is a combination of yeast and sourdough starter. At my temperature in Panama in an air-conditioned house at about 24° C. I use 10% sourdough starter and about and eighth of a teaspoon of yeast I mix it at about 72% hydration I do several folds within the first hour. That I let it rise at 24° 6 to 8 hours till approaching near double in size. It can go in the fridge now for one to two days until I'm ready. The flavor is perfect to me at that point. The combinations of sourdough and yeast and cold have developed some flavor without being too strong.
I also have an apartment in Pereira Colombia with no AC and daytime temperatures 24° C and nighttime temperatures of about 15° C so the strategy there is totally different
Oh yes the process relies so much on the environment. I love learning to bake in a new place and trying to work out the best ways.
Another wonderful video! It's very freeing for me😊. I bake bread less than I would like because I am never quite sure if I'll actually get to it the next day when I 'should'. But this video has shown me that I don't need to worry about getting the timing as exactly right as I though. Thank you!😁💖
All of my bread-making attempts so far have been disasters, but your videos are giving me hope for another attempt. Thanks!
I am going to make your simple donut recipe this weekend, except that I am going to make it cold fermented. I can't decide between 48h or 24h, but after seeing this video I think I'm going with the 48h route. Wish me luck!
You can do it! 😎
Thanks for sharing this video and going into great detail!
I have left my dough in the fridge for 24+ hours before baking before and loved the results too. For me, I have found the sweet spot of ONE full day of being refrigerated, before baking. Keep in mind, my bread recipe is an enriched dough recipe (challah/brioche hybrid that I customized to my liking). And for what it's worth, I had left my dough in the fridge for 3 days once - not by choice mind you, kitchen was just too busy to bake the days prior - and the taste was, let's just say...interesting.
It had, as you noted, an acidic taste..I thought it was a bit sour and tangy - which I was NOT looking for. Also the strength of the bread was weaker than my normal method of one full day. I realized at that point that I like cold proofing for a full day, but not that much more longer. That said, it's great to see that the bread is STILL edible after 2 weeks. Not that I would ever do that. But it's nice to know just how long it *could* last if someone were to ask me.
Again, appreciate that you take your time to create this videos and share these comparison videos that provide us with useful and helpful insights about bread baking. Definitely feel like I've increased my knowledge of bread baking from viewing your videos on your channel. Thanks again for that!
Cheers 😊
I have only just started long fridge fermentation. I have been doing 7 days and love it! I just make next weeks dough while the current dough is baking.
I might try a two week, I mean the tupperware I use was a two-pack so it only makes sense!
This is quite an interesting experiment. Thanks for sharing. Newbie baker here. Learning a lot from your videos.
Excellent video Charlie! Sooo much better than someone (who claims to be an expert/cause it seems like everybody does that!) telling other bakers what to do, and why it will work/or fail. I've found out that some of those statements just aren't true, or, at least, not true based on my own experience.
As an example of this, I have mixed my salt into my water after I have hydrated my yeast in there (so maybe after 5 mins) so that I know my salt has good distribution. I have not seen any difference, even though my salt obviously had close personal contact with my yeast.
Thanks for the video!
WOW !! Charlie, this is excellent information !! I am forwarding this video to my friends.
I was just wondering about long cold ferment and English muffins just yesterday! Thanks ChainBaker.
I am in the process of trying to make it work as we speak 😆
I can make a wonderful pizza by learning baking principles from your channel!
By using your techniques, it helps me reducing waste/trial&error process.
I feel lucky that I found your channel! 😁
Thank you so much!!
Cheers! 😁
I have done 7 days a few times, and only once it took me 10 days to get to the bake. I liked them all all. I did not adjust yeast, but did fold from time to time.
Your lessons are food for thought. I have a whole wheat poolish in the cooler now. Perhaps I should add some days to it. 👍
Forget the poolish. Use long full fermentation. I switched and never looked back. He has a video on this
awesome video as always, I love leaving pizza dough to ferment for a few days in the fridge, delish stuff.
In US a fridge is reliably at 40F/5C, or course they have zones like the veggie drawer but it obviously intended for 40F, if I recall milk shelf live is based on 40F. But a wine fridge might go up to 50-60F/10-15C.
This is an amazing channel for bread recipes, instruction, and techniques! I can certainly appreciate the enormous amount of time it takes you to produce and edit a single instructional/experimental video - you cover every aspect an alternate procedure of the recipe. For the record, I deleted all my other favourite bread channels and now only use this channel. Everything I ever wanted to know about bread is right here. You're the master baker! And the 1970's style background porno music in some of your videos is quite entertaining. New subscriber...for the bread recipes ;)
Cheers! 😁
I agree.... he's the best
😍
As always, most informative. Thanks.
Great idea for a test. Really gives one options.
I have just let a dough growing for 2 days, ye color and taste are quite different from the same day rise bread. I was just curious about the GLUTEN. Good to know it’s go down when fermenting for longer time
Thanks for that! Supergreat! What I miss/ would like to know or learn is how to calculate the right amount of yeast or sourdough starter depending on the given fermentation time
There are too many variables, so that would be quite difficult to tell. Dough temperature, room temperature, ingredients, hydration. The best you can do is set a baseline and work from there.
Neat experiment, I love a bread with strong sourdough flavor, maybe I'll try a long ferment the next time I bake.
Great channel brother 💪🏽
Cheers 😎
I use to build industrial bakerys, the big stuff. I've seen a lot of dough-proofing calamities. The incidents usually happen on new bakery startups. One time production left 4 filled 1000-pound dough thoughs in a corner overnight (bad mixs), when I came in at 5 am the dough had covery about 5000 square feet of floor. One time a management team thought it would be ok to fill a large trash compactor with dough overnight, "it'll be cold tonght" they said. The compacter was ripped from the building and pushed a good 30 feet as "The Blob" expanded. 1/2 inch steel plate was torn and twisted, 1-inch wedge anchors were ripped out of the cement.
Haha! Those must have been very impressive sights! Love it 😄
How many cubic feet was the dough to begin with in the compacter incident?
@@philip6502 5 to 10 250-pound batches of experimental pita dough. All the trash mixed in made it look like some sort of holiday loaf, wish camraphones existed back then...
I love these comparison videos! Seeing the differences and understanding the process really helps me with this new hobby. Thank you so much. Do you happen to have an easy Borodinsky bread recipe? I was going to try just adding molasses to your Belarusian Rye recipe, but have not worked up the courage yet.
ruclips.net/video/F21oBav50rI/видео.html ✌️
They look delicious! One of my kids ended up allergic to gluten and we are on a gluten free baking mission. We've been having fun with making sourdough starters. Any chance you could produce a gluten free loaf/english muffins video?
I have no experience with gluten free baking yet, but I will give it a go sometime. Can't say when though.
@@ChainBaker thank you sir
I left my last brioche for two days....wonderful bread! How do you think diastatic malt powder would have affected the outcome of longer ferments?
Great question.
Perhaps that would help with reducing the fermentation time?! Not sure. I only ever use malt powder as a flavouring in same day bakes.
You know what I really love about your videos? Well, everything, lol, but I have found that I am becoming a better baker because now I UNDERSTAND why I’m supposed to do stuff instead of just trying to memorize steps. I am beginning to see what is happening with my dough, and intuit what I need to do next. Thank you for sharing these videos. Do you have a Patreon account I can support?
Thank you so much Sandi that is very kind of you to say and thank you for offering your support :)
It is definitely more valuable to learn the principles than just individual recipes. I'll keep them coming 😁
You can support the channel on my ko-fi.com page linked in the video description. Thank you 🤩
The longest I've cold-fermented dough was 5 days. The final bread had a strong alcohol taste, which I thought complemented the other flavors well!
Hi Charlie ! The longest I’ve ever left my dough in the fridge for cold fermentation before baking is 11 days. The crumb is indeed surprisingly a lot darker and denser, and the flavour is almost wine-like and quite strong, which I do not mind at all, and does not taste much like bread, therefore kinda funny.
Your making it easy to get recharged about baking bread again. I'm in the process of making a 24 hour ferment at room temperature. (Trying to get a sourdough flavor without sourdough starter.) I'm just to forgetful and lazy to use a starter.
i try to use around 1/4 teaspoon yeast for 1kg of flour. It takes more time to get going, but i prefer the taste of less yeast and longer ferment, always at least 2 days in the fridge after an initial rise at room temp.
Eu não sabia que poderíamos deixar a massa por tanto tempo na geladeira antes de assar. Muito obrigado.
I have an issue NOT addressed here. I did a scald, yes, yudane if you will, but w/ a high protein whole wheat flour. 600g Bronze Chief Red wheat berry wheat whole wheat flour, a fine milled flour perfect for 100% ww bread.
I set the 2 bowls in my 3°C (sometimes -4°C!) garage.
Then, due to health, I couldn't do anything w/ the dough. The bowls were tightly sealed against air, dust, & creatures. But in the last wk or so the temps have risen into the 19°C or so, & the dough fermented. No mold or anything nasty, just more acidic than what my family would like, probably. I'm a San Francisco sourdough girl so I'm good. I added no yeast, or salt, just water.
It looks fine, I've taken 5cm off the surface, to be sure, but I'm thinking of adding about 27% of light bread flour, 75% water, & some yeast (1 or 2g), along w/ some honey, to counteract the acidity, and improve the flavor.
I'm NOT a professional baker, & I've only been home baking about 12 yrs, so this is me baking by the seat of my pants. ANY advice would be GREATLY appreciated. The whole wheat flour is pretty expensive for me, on my fixed income, but I have a lack of vitamin absorption issues, which is why I need to bake my own ww bread. Not throwing a pity party, just the facts. Can't add eggs, or vinegar to anything, other allergies, just limits things.
Why I'm asking for help. From ANYONE w/ more experience than myself. ❤
I'd use that mix as a flavour improver. Add it to any bread recipe replacing around 20% of the total flour and water with it. You can move it to the fridge if there is space. It should keep for even longer.
Absolute perfect timing on the video. The old flour I used to get to make bread ran out of stock in the market and the only other option was one that already had yeast in it, which didn't even say how much of, though I could only assume was a ton due to the example recipe on the package's side being an hour and a half or so long from kneading to baking total. I was already getting paranoid over leaving it overnight in the fridge with no clue of its yeast content for such thing.
Thank you for this experiment! You saved me a lot of trouble. haha
This video has encouraged me to experiment with long fermentation. I ground some barley and spelt into flour mixed them with water and yeast and threw the dough into the fridge. I am going to leave it until sunday morning, then I will bake it. I didn't lowered amount of yeast so I am curious about effects. I will give you my feedback. Thanks bro!
Awesome! I'll be waiting for your results 😎
@@ChainBaker ok, I did it. The dough was fermenting in my fridge for exactly 80 hours. Then I quickly shaped it and cut a cross on it(you know, for directions of the world). I baked it in a glass baking dish(I don't have proper dutch oven). It wasn't fluffy, but it had nice golden brown crust. It was danse inside with lots of holes(some of them huuuge). The scent was very yeasty and the flavour... Yeast, with a pinch of sourness(zero salt btw). Freaking delicious, I ate whole loaf at once(it was small, I used only 200 grams of flour). It was propably the greatest bread I have ever baked. And I am also experimenting with multigrain breads, today I made overnight pan-baked rolls made with 1:1 whole wheat flour and oat flakes(very satiating). I think in some more or less near future I will try sourdough. Thank you for your videos, you are big inspiration for me. Greetings from Poland!
7-8 days makes great pizza. No change in yeast required. 2gr per 150g flour. WITH olive oil in the dough. Wet, 75% hydration.
Cold fermentation really opened up a lot of possibilities for me. I can use much warmer water for the mix, since I'll be cooling the dough in the fridge right away. With warm water, like 35-40c, the dough hydrates super quickly, reaching the consistency equivalent to an hour of autolyse. Because kneading is quick and easy, I can do more of it. I think this way the folding steps can be skipped? But I have to test.
Folding is good for cooling the dough down more evenly and quickly. I'd say at least one fold is a must.
Hello from North Idaho. 👋🏻
A side note - the longest I have fermented is about 7 days - when I started baking no-knead bread I had read that the extended fermentation time would add more "tang" to the final bread (like a faux sourdough). That was before I started to make sourdough bread - seems so long ago (July 2021).
7 days is as long as I would ever go after making this video 😅 the 14 day bread was alright, but not something I'd eat more than once 😄
@@ChainBaker Because it "looked funny it's a bit wrinkly and it did not gain much volume" (your words, not mine - haha) 😉 Or did it taste just a bit too "gamey and fermented"?
🤣🤣🤣
It tasted quite acidic but very sweet at the same time, so it felt too unusual 😁
@@ChainBaker 😜
Love the videos! Could you do a video on pretzel buns? I've watched your pretzel videos, but not sure how to incorporate the techniques into a burger bun.
I'll add them to my list 😎
Thank you!
I watched this video and needed to try the 14 day dough! I'm very curious about how it will taste.
I just finished mixing the ingredients and put it in the fridge. Looking forward to the results :)
The dough has been on the fridge for a week and it's developing a weird color, its surface is becoming gray-ish. I'm not sure that would be very safe to eat :/
Mine looked like that too.
@@ChainBaker That's good to know. I was worried it would be some kind of mold, and it's only been half the total time.
If it's mold you'l see some fuzz 😁
@@ChainBaker Sadly it did develop mold at the 14 day mark. The grayness wasn't even in the first place, like in your video, it was patchy, and eventually I found some fuzzy mold. Too bad! I'll try only 1 week next time.
THANK YOU.
YOU ARE NUMBER 1!!!!
Amazing, I didn't wanted to toss a 10 day sourdough dough that I had, instead I'm going to experiment as you said making pancakes hihi, lets see, thank you so much!
نتمنى ان تضع ترجمه للغه العربيه قناتك ممتازه😍😍
Nice new bread tins.
Great video! Thank you 🙏
Great stuff! I've tried cold fermenting for a day or two, and really couldn't tell much of a difference. Now I know I need to try 4, 5, or even more days!
Separate question: I wonder how this experiment would look with poolish (I make bread from poolish a couple of times a week). Can you cold ferment poolish for days like this?
Good question. Poolish is a lot wetter, so it should ferment more actively. It may reach the same stage as the 14 day fermented dough in a shorter time I'd say.
Is kneading the dough until it produces a "windowpane" effect still necessary with cold fermentation? Thank you.
I never use the windowpane test. Here is a video in which I show that even kneading is not necessary most of the time ruclips.net/video/1knjFj923MQ/видео.html
I also don't see huge differences between 2 and 5 day fermented dough, so next time I guess I should leave for about 2 weeks.
Enjoying your videos while I attempt poolish bread making. Have made 5 loaves and having trouble getting them into the dutch oven, they end up more on one side. Do you have a tip for getting it just right? Have started a cold ferment, looking forward to trying the bread!
If it's a deep pot, then you can use a larger piece of baking paper which you can cut in such a way that it has handles..use them to lower the load into the pot and center it perfectly.
@@ChainBaker I actually use a proofing basket, with which my aim is terrible. Will try the baking paper also.
Invert the dough onto the paper first and then move it to the pot 😉
Great video!
is there a video where the ratios of ingredients are listed, including the amount of yeast which depends on how many days each loaf is left to ferment? Thanks
There is no way of standardizing that since your fridge may be warmer or cooler than mine. Your flour may be different and the dough temperature too. It will vary from dough to dough too if other ingredients are added.The best you can do is experiment.
Yeeees it's here
Sweet video! I would've never expected the 14 day to change that much.
Also, what bowls and lids are those that you used to ferment? They looked really nice. I looked on both your affiliate Amazon links and I couldn't find them
I got them from IKEA ✌️
For anyone else looking it comes up as: IKEA 365+ Food container with lid, glass
and they have a few different sizes. Like 5 dolla, US. I shall go get some soon lol.
The silicone top ones look really nice as well (and they say they seal well), and wouldn't have that issue with the dough rising too much and touching the gasket as seen in the video.
I went and bought 3 of them with the same lids. It's like 3 dollars a bowl and 3 a lid. Very worth it! They're so good in hand and the seal comes off for easy cleaning too
Awesome thanks so much for this video
Can you do this in warm temperatur? What Im wondering is if a longer fermentation (over 3 days) is better for a human to eat or more digestible.
It becomes more digestible in the fridge too. ruclips.net/video/YrQMc2v0Z3Q/видео.html
I’m still looking to see if you’ve already done this, but have you ever done an experiment to ferment a wheat dough long enough to destroy all the gluten? Would it make it gluten-free? Best wishes 🍻
Two weeks was the longest for me. I reckon at some point it would turn liquid 😄 but I don't think it would ever be gluten free no matter how long it is fermented for. It would be more easily digestible though that's for sure.
@@ChainBaker thank you for passing your knowledge onto us and your teaching abilities are 💯
👍👍👍👍👍 - is your next experiment to repeat this but to add the yeast on the day you bake them all? Just to see how much of the flavour comes from the fermenting only - and not the yeast. The yeast isn't very active at the temp of the fridge so how much sugars from the flour could it have eaten anyway?
Interesting. I might try that out 👍
I sometimes meal prep pizza by making 7 balls of dough and storing them in the fridge so that I can make one pizza each day of a week, so as I progress throughbout the week the dough that I am using is more and more fermented. To me, the flavors become more complex and interesting as the dough ferments longer and I feel like I could make even more than 7 and still have great pizza dough by the end.
Interesting! and a great way to experiment!
I have done similar things in the past. For me I found that the ideal point in time was 5 days fermentation. That gave the dough the best flavour while still maintaining enough gluten strength to be easy to make a thin crust pizza out of. By day 6 and certainly day 7 I found the crust would start to tear too easily.
if you were to cold ferment pizza dough, when do you divide the dough? Assuming a 5 or 6 day cold ferment, do you bulk ferment for 2, or 5/6 days? Divide the next day, or the day before or day of baking? Does it matter when you divide the dough?
I would divide it only after bulk fermentation. Then shape and let it rise again before stretching & baking. But you could try and divide the day before baking and then bake right from the fridge. Try and see what works better for you.
Gonna give the 14 day a try. Get back later!
so if i want flavor but i don’t want to compromise the strength of the gluten, at what point in time does the ph drop too low ? i still want a nice airy rise
I'd keep it to no more than 3 days.
My current batch of dough is about 2 weeks left overs from pizza, it's also had sourdough starter added to it and I have been struggling with dense looking bread but it tastes good and is soft and not dense. This video makes sense to my novice baking mind, thanks.
My question is, if I make a new batch and mix it 50/50 will it give a more desirable, open crumb?
It depends. Slow fermented dough has weaker gluten, so getting an open crumb could be a problem. I would add less of the pre-ferment and instead increase the hydration a bit.
@@ChainBaker i tried it last night at 40-50% old dough but it was only in the fridge for 7 hours, more airy but taste was non existent, I thought it would have scaled a bit better in the flavour department
What is the purpose of splitting the dough into several rolls when making Japanese milk bread? Is ie necessary?
Just for looks as far as I can tell. You can make one whole loaf ✌️
So Mr, Baker I did check u'r store & didn't find the
bowls w/ glass covers u use - where do u get them : )
I got those in IKEA.
Another greatly informative video! I never leave my dough more than overnight (I'm a practical baker :D) but I find that proofing it for longer dries out the surface of the dough. How can we counter that? Spray some water on it?
Cover it with clingfilm so that it is touching the surface. It should not dry out :)
@@ChainBaker Excellent, thanks a lot!
How many times can i fold my down as i want the most flavorful bread? Ive added more yeast as you suggested by the way.
You don't need to fold too many times. The dough stops rising after a couple days so there is no need.
If I want to do a long cold ferment like 2 weeks with sourdough bread, should I do the 1st ferment/bulk ferment the dough at room temperature at all before putting it in the fridge or just mix the ingredients and put it in the fridge right away?
It depends on your starter. Is it active enough that it will ferment the dough even from a cold start? I know mine struggles with that. But then again I have never left a naturally leavened dough in the fridge for that long. Personally, I would give it an hour at room temp and then pop it in the fridge.
Hi Mr. Baker (can I call you Chain?) Thanks for this amazing video. I'm reading your blog post and I have a question: "Alcoholic fermentation occurs at lower temperatures and in the absence of oxygen." So, is it the sealed container that you place the dough in that causes the absence of oxygen? I love to bake, but chemistry is apparently a lot harder for me than most folks. Again, thanks!
The absence of oxygen is caused by the lack of kneading/folding.
Call me Charlie 😉
@@ChainBaker Thanks so much Charlie! If you wrote a book yourself, I would buy it (just saying).🙂
Could you reintroduce gluten somewhere along the 14 day ferment?
I've never tried that, but perhaps you could squish in some VWG to make it keep its shape. Sounds messy though.
Hey Chainbaker do you have any advice on how to make tasteful breads for a family member who needs to keep his sodium down? Do you know of anything I can replace the salt with to make it taste nice?
Here's a great example of salt-less bread ruclips.net/video/EV4eJzVxnZU/видео.html 😉
Would an enriched dough benefit by long fermentation? I have done an overnight ferment for my Japanese milk bread and it was fabulous, but I wonder if a few more days could make it even better?
It works the same way. Just keep in mind that the texture will not be as soft the longer it ferments :)