Which is the Best Slow Fermentation Method? Cold vs Room Temperature Compared
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Slow fermentation is the best method for achieving better flavour in our bread. Besides taste it also makes the crust crispier and gives the bread a nice chew. And it can make it stay fresher for longer.
My go-to method is cold bulk fermentation and I have made quite a few videos about it. But cold fermentation is not the only way to extend fermentation time. Bread can also be fermented at room temperature for long periods of time. Instead of cooling it down we simply use less yeast.
That got me thinking about which method produces a tastier bread and which is better overall. There are advantages and disadvantages to both and which method we use could depend on practicality.
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I bought a 100 gram (Max) scale only to weigh yeast, salt, sugar and baking powder. Before buying that, it was very difficult to accurately measure very tiny amounts.
It has an accuracy of ±0.05 grams. It can even weigh a single staple!
I am still looking for a good scale for homebaking. I have one similar to Charlie's, but mine does not revert to zero haha. Sometimes it simply does not update the value, then I press it with my finger or remove and put the bowl again and it will properly update. I am not sure, however, how precise is it anyway.
I have the same and use it for salt and yeast weighing. They call them jeweler scales. Not expensive, but for sure more accurate than 3 kg scales. Another way is weighing 1 or 2 gram and divide it in equal parts, use only one of the parts.
Yes! I bought jewellers scales for... well... weighing silver etc. and ended up using them more for cooking.
In Colorado, it's easy to find small, accurate scales, because people use them to measure "herbs". They're very practical for measuring yeast, salt, coffee, etc.
I got a drug dealer scale too.
Since I often do three days CF of small batches of dough (4 pizzas) i often use very small amounts of yeast.
I prefer cold fermenting in the fridge, because it gives me a wide time span for baking: I prepare the dough every Wednesday and bake on the following Friday, Saturday or Sunday, always with great results.
When making pizza, it is essential that the last fermentation occurs at room temperature and the dough should be removed from the fridge at least 5 hours before stretching and baking, otherwise the gluten would just be too tight and cold to witness your stretch and it's going to snap back as your try to extend it.
For any other type of bread I'm all for cold fermentation.
I agree! Although I do a combo of both. About 70% hydration and like less than a tsp yeast. couple slap and folds then leave in the fridge with incremental coil folds ( about 3-4 hrs increments)
After like 12 hours I let it sit anywhere from 3-6 hours room temp. Never over ferments and is very light/crispy!
Pizza can be cold fermented in a basic pizza shape. That is how we did it at a restaurant I worked at long ago. Stacks of flat dough separated by wax paper in the refrigerator. Used directly from the refrigerator with only a minor stretch and time for topping befor baking.
@wolfedog99 that may work for NY style or sheet pan pizza but I was referring to Neapolitan pizza which is the kind I like the most and I make more often.
A proofing box could really even the playing field here in terms of predictability! I built a cheap one for my home baking with a styrofoam cooler box, seedling mat and a temperature controller, and it stays the same temp all seasons, really really useful!
Great idea - thanks.
Your videos are just the best, I can't wait to try a long cold fermentation on my next batch of bread
I just wanted to say thank you for these videos. They make a difference. Yesterday I was working late, struggling against some misbehaving servers. I've been ill all week and finishing work at 10 pm was the last straw. I gratefully started to wander off to bed when I remembered: I have nothing for breakfast. What do I do? It's 10 pm. Do I go out in the middle of the night in February to buy a stale loaf of white bread at the corner store? Or... could I...?
I guess your videos are sinking in because I mixed up a dough very similar to the one in this video. I've got an 8 hour cold ferment. I'll quickly knead it up so I can go to bed. I can get up at 6 and just about have enough time to proof and bake it for my regular 7:30 breakfast. Not going lie, it wasn't my best loaf. The bread was right out of the oven when I sat down, but my goodness it certainly beat stale super market bread and a freezing cold walk in the middle of the night!
I never would have considered this before I started watching this channel. It doesn't even make sense :-) But it made my whole day today. Got up with a smile on my face and did my best for the rest of the day.
First comment just want to say this guy rocks.
Cheers, Mike! 😎
I agree - wholeheartedly!!!
Interesting outcome. Based on your results, I would use the room temperature method when I am running low on yeast or the price of yeast increased a substantial amount. Otherwise, yes. Just popping dough in the fridge is much easier.
Well, happened to me once that I though I had yeast in home but I had only half of the yeast that I was expecting (I had 2.5g and the recipe required 5g). Just fermenting for longer solved my issue!
You can put some yeast in warm water at 80° F-90° F (27° C-32° C), add a little sugar, wait a few minutes, and grow all the yeast you will ever need.
Probably the most helpful, and enjoyable, baking channel. Amazing work.
Cheers, Ben! ✌️😎
Awesome video. I prefer a combination of both cold for preferment only and room temperature for bulk fermentation and final dough rise. .. I feel what is placed is room temperature, hours are counted double if in refrigerator due to the cold temperature slowing it down if using same measurements. So if bulking 12 hours in room temperature is like 24 hours in refrigerator when using same exact ingredients measurements which works for me. Thanks
He should do that experiment. 12 hour warm, with 24 hour cold. (I know he did something like that, but there were several loaves he was measuring at the same time, I think focusing it on just the one difference between two would be helpful). I can also try it myself…
Those small amounts to weigh is why i got one of those "jewelers" scales that measure to 0.01 gr. Very practical for the small amounts of yeast and salt i usually need.
Cold fermenting intimidated me and when I actually tried it, I didn't like the taste. It was too acidic for my taste buds. Through your vids, I discovered that I loved making bread with the preferment. It is soo delicious.
I agree,Im a preferment person, I prefer the taste and texture
I appreciate your very, very clear and scientific style of explaining the usage of preferments! I am German experiencing under Africa's real life conditions with preferments at (our) room temperature (31°C). Because of the fact that electricity is extremely unstable here, I can't use a fridge for cold preferment.
With my poolish, I came up with max. 0.025% dry yeast (we don't have other types here) and 15 h optimal (and safe) time. I developed a method to measure this tiny amount of yeast using small syringes from the pharmacy with back calculation from g to ml yeast.
I prefer the room temperature fermentation method because it might be a solution for those without access to energy in the "rest" of the world
When you use premade iceblocks made at the on-times, you can compensate for the missing stability. the most important part of the fridge is the isolation.
I really enjoy your video presentation - they are clear, informative and methodical. I've done room temperature fermentation but not in the fridge so I can't compare (at least not yet). The first time I came across no knead bread was about 4 years ago and I was amazed how well it works. I'm from an 'era' when we were told you almost had to be brutal to your dough to develop the gluten. No knead dough goes against those 'rules', I guess in part because of the way dry yeast has developed (no such thing available when I first made bread). Thank you for your videos and the fuller written explanations on your website, they are much appreciated (as is your happy smile.) 😊
Ive been cold fermenting overnight and getting great results. (Thanks) But this last week I was wondering about leaving it on the counter overnight. Now I know. Thanks. With such small amounts I'll use a teaspoon or half a teaspoon and forget about exit measurement. Seems to work OK. But taking its temperature is the most useful info you have provided. Thanks again.
Another super interesting video - I really enjoy these comparison videos. Always a great day when your videos come out!
for easy weighing of salt, yeast and other small amount ingredients, I bought jewelry scales, now weighing them is super easy
You're a hero for making these videos. I think i've learned more from watching your videos than hours of googling and reading blogs and forums
🙏
Great instructional video on bread making yet again. I haven’t tried proofing in the fridge, as I am normally keen to do my bread making in one day but I must try this method. Thank you for posting Charlie. 😀👍☘️
I started to bake bread because I thought its cool to make my own. And now I'm becoming a scientist! Interesting video!
What I am going for is consistency and flavor. My first cold ferment was a bust due to a few over ferments. I see this will require more focus.
As you stated a cold ferment is practical so it's the method for me. The temperature is steady and gives a more consistent result that is very helpful. Now all I need to do is find that focus😅
Hey Charlie, I'm so glad you made this video. It's great as always. I told you that you would be surprised by the results 😄
As you explained, cold fermentation has the upper hand in terms of practicality. Regarding the experiment itself, I think it could have been more accurate if you used a more sensitive scale, like a jewelry scale, to weigh the yeast (which is super critical for room temperature fermentation as you mentioned). Also, for me, the yeast level for a 14h fermentation at 20°C seems high (I'd halve the amount from 0.15% to around 0.07%.). I think these two little tweaks will give the advantage to the room temperature fermented bread, taste and texture wise. It will also be interesting to compare a 6h room temperature fermented dough with a 12h cold fermented dough. Maybe not as an entire video, but just as a personal test. I am sure the results of this will surprise you even more :)
Other than that, you have once more proven that this is the best baking channel on RUclips!
When using a low cost electronic balance. Remove the bowl while adding or removing yeast. Be sure the temperature is even, the electric piles have good charge [ low power can cause erratic error ], and stay several meters away from any electric devices.[ microwave ovens are the worst, but internet routers, electric motors, and cell phones can all add electronic noise ]
Also helpful is dilution. Measure a large acurate to measure amount like 5g of yeast and 45g of sugar or flour [total = 50g], mix them thoroughly and now 3g of mixture will contain 0.3g of yeast.
The problem is that many low cost designs use a small amount of averaging or rounding to stabilize the signal and display, and this averaging will wash away small and slow changes in actual mass. Removing the bowl while adding or removing prevents this rounding problem and greatly improves repeatability. Expensive labrotory balances are stabilized with additional internal precision and noise filters, but at 10 times the price.
Even with no averaging, another problem with a digital balance at the low end of the display, is that you do not know how much hysteresis the design uses for the last digit.[ labrotory balance manufacturers will provide this information ] Hysteresis acts like a buffer.
Using the display resolution of your balance of 0.1g as the example and measuring an item of true 0.25g.
With no hysteresis every air current and bit of electronic noise (from all sorts of natural and artificial radio signals) will make the display flip rapidly between 0.2 and 0.3 ;
With a hysteresis of 0.02 the mass-signal must grow beyond 0.26 before the display will change from 0.2 to 0.3, and a falling mass-signal must drop below 0.24 to change from 0.3 to 0.2. So, if the display is 0.2 the true mass can be anywhere between 0.14 and 0.26, and this would be acceptable for baking.
However, many balances with poor noise filtering may set hysteresis much higher, like 0.09, in which case a display of 0.2 could be any true mass between 0.11 and 0.29 depending on wether it was growing or falling. Which is a 260% variation from end to end, or a range of 55% to 145% of indicated.
It's always a great day when you upload! =)
😍
Room temperature fermentation uses less yeast and extends the window which the dough is good. This is useful for making pizza.
There are calculators for room temperature and yeast quantity. It is definitely not easy to get it right every time.
Cold fermentation has the advantage that you can use the dough over several days which means you can eat pizza whenever you want.
I have been warm fermenting for years, until you made me try cold fermentation. There is no way back for me now, cold fermentation is my way to go. Thank you
By the end of the video I lost track which was which, like a shell game. Thank you for your many excellent baking videos!
They're always in the same place 😉
Nice comparison video, Charlie... always great info in your submissions. For me, I taste no difference between fridge and room temp, however, I use both methods based on the time I have available. Cold ferment gives me great freedom and no need to panic about over fermentation, whereas room temp is wonderful if you have some lazy times ahead for the day. Did I mention I love bread? 😁
😁
My search has been for a method that requires minimal effort while achieving consistent results (because I am lazy). Influenced by your experiments, I have adopted this method: Prepare the dough in the morning and refrigerate it until bedtime. Then I set it out in the kitchen to bulk ferment overnight. By the following morning, the dough is ready for the final steps prior to the last proof. The final proof has typically completed in 1-1.5 hour at an ambient temperature of 60 degrees F.
In summer, ambient temperature will be 80 degrees F. I think this change can be dealt with by taking the dough from the fridge to an empty insulated cooler.
I think the long fermentation time makes a noticeable improvement in the taste of white bread but the improvement is even more pronounced in whole wheat bread. It could be my imagination at work but I think the bread is a great deal softer as well.
I'm still playing with the idea of preferment. Been using a poolish mostly, but a biga works well too. Haven't done a cold ferment, just leave them overnight. I, personally can't tell the difference in taste, but I have been told my bread has some pretty good flavor.
I think the difference between cold and warm fermented doughs is more stark with preferments or sourdough involved.
I was actually able to learn some baking on this video, having at least partially forced myself to focus and not get distracted by our host's mesmerising looks and voice😆🥰🥰👍👍
😁
The cold bulk fermentation is great for me. In addition to adding great flavor, I'm not locked into a specific time frame. I have a back injury and don't know how much I'm going to be able to do in advance. If I put a batch of dough in the fridge and can hardly move the next morning, it's good to know that another day won't lead to ruin!
So glad you made this video. I have been watching your videos for a while and I did have questions on the cold vs room temp fermentation which you answered very well. Thanks very much. You have made me such a good baker :).
You're videos are very helpful. They save me a lot of time because you do experiments that answer questions I have. Sometimes I do the experiment myself IF i can't find someone online that has already done it (or if it's very specific to a variable in one of my particular recipes).
Hi Charlie. An advantage of room-temperature fermentation is that you can use butter or oils that solidify at fridge temperature (like olive oil and avocado oil). If you want fat in a recipe you plan to cold-ferment or cold-proof, you are limited to ones that stay liquid at fridge temperatures (like canola oil).
I regularly use butter in cold fermented recipes. Makes no difference at all 👍
@@ChainBaker Really? That is interesting. I am just making my first cold fermented batch as we speak (thanks to your videos) so have no experience. Thanks for the info!
If I may share....you can weigh small amount of yeast or any dry powder by putting any initial weight first to the scale like a small bowl just to set an initial reading, then add the desired weight of the yeast. Been doing this and always gave me more accurate amount...
Cold fermentation is always the best.
In culinary school they taught us if you want to measure small amounts of an ingredient you need to measure something else to make the scale more sensitive. For example if you weight the water first then add the yeast without zeroing you will get more accurate results than by weighting the yeast alone. Same for salt. I'm using that tip for baking and it seems to be working. I can't verify if it's true or not though. It might be a good idea for experimenting. Also cold ferments are ideal for warm seasons to have better control over temperature without worrying about water temp, flour temp etc.
For digital electronic scales that particular technique is false. The problem is not one of sensitivity, rather the opposite, it is due to filtering and internal vs display resolution, rounding and buffering(hysteresis).
I found the same problem weighing yeast and salt. I found the perfect method. I keep a bunch of small plastic cups from single serve apple sauce for weighing and I now have three scales. One for weighing large amounts for flour 100g up to 5 kilo. A second scale smaller for weighing 50g to 500g and a small high accurate scale that weighs 0.001g up to 50 grams for yeast and salt. You can get them from Amazon for $20.
Old baker here. I learned in the 70s from a Farm Journal 1969 bread book about the "cool rise" method and have baked with great success. But learned most old recipes use way too much commercial yeast. 8 hrs cold final rise, pulling loaves out as preheating oven. Nothing fancy like stones, covers, etc. Now many decades later I simply reduce a lot and find 12/24 hrs gives good result. Of course working in bakery we used bulk retardation then shape and rise in proofing cabinet. I generally make sourdough now with overnight bulk then shape and cold final. With cold final you have less concerns with over proofing.
Great video thanks. I now always try to do Cold fermentation as I really notice a big difference in smell and a significant improvement in taste and texture. I particularly like doing cold fermentation for pizza dough using both initial Poolish and main bulk fermentation in the fridge and then the final fermentation at around 20C.
Love your helpful videos. Thanks very much indeed.
I like the convenience of cold fermented, but I can see cases where the time factor might make me pick room temperature.
I would say one advantage to the room temperature method is that it is more forgiving with the amount of yeast you use. Since the fridge makes yeast go dormant, you need to make sure the amount of yeast is dialed in for your dough/fridge/etc or else you could easily end up with underproofed or overproofed dough. Whereas with room temperature fermentation you can just leave it for one or two more hours to finish proofing since the yeast grows exponentially.
Of course you can take the underproofed fridge dough out of the fridge to finish proofing, but then you lose the advantage of working with cold stiff dough.
I would also say that the improved rise and less fridge space are valid reasons to use the room temperature method, especially given that the taste difference is not that significant.
I like using room temperature fermentation for high hydration doughs. Low hydration or enriched dough in the refrigerator
I ran into the same problem with weighing yeast below 1 g. I zero the scales with the empty container on the scales, then lift the container, it gives me the weight of the empty container. Then I place the container back on the scales, and it will go back to zero. Now I put some yeast estimate into the container. It may still say zero, so I lift the container up again. Now it tells me a new weight, that of the container + some extra. If I deduct the weight of the empty container from the new weight, it is the amount of yeast I put in. It may not be exact the amount you want, because the numbers aren't changing while you fill it into the container, but at least I can assume it is about the amount what you worked out mathematically.
Once I got the amount I need, I empty the yeast into the water, and just by chance I put the empty container back on the scales before it turns it self off. And you wouldn't belief it, it displayed the amount I had worked out in my head. BTW I use an empty plastic yoghurt container which only weighs 4.7 g
I was so taken by my discovery, that I wanted proof that it wasn't a fluke. So I did it all over again with the same result. Not sure if it only works with my scales (which look very much like the scales used in this video). I would love to hear from the ChainBaker, if he would try it.
🤔
My reason staying with the warm fermented one, is very personal. I suffer from cold hands, and love the feel of the warm dough better because of it. But I can see the advantage when we getting back to summer temperatures. ( I live in Australia)
Interesting! I've been using a slightly different method. I switch on the scales and then place the container on them. I pour in the yeast without zeroing the scales and stop once the scales have gone up by the required amount. Done this way the scale seems more sensitive.
Another great one. I learn so much from your videos!
Great video, thanks. I wish you had included a third option, though: to leave the dough on the counter until you finished the folding process and then put it in the fridge. That seems to be more convenient and probably reduces the amount of yeast.
My main problem is that I don’t have sufficient space on my fridge, to do cold fermentation, unless it’s a very small loaf. But I don’t bake unless it’s at least 500g of flour.
I run a popup pizzeria, and I know you said other than fridge space, but on a commercial level of 100+ doughs on a mobile scene, a fridge is not an option. I use yeast water (40 mL hoenycrisp apple to 800 mL spring water) at 2.5% innoculation, 3% salt, and STRONG flour 14-15% protein w350+. We get a solid 36 hour RT fermentation with that, and it can fight the elements where a temperature change will do less damage.
I've always been curious if we subbed actual dry yeast how much that would be.
Great video!
I need to get into yeast water. I've never tried it, but it seems really interesting!
@@ChainBaker it is, it allows for a slower fermentation than sourdough without as much bacterial deterioration of the gluten.
You can make a levain with it or make a direct dough with it!
I bought a small jewelry scale (0.01g) for weighing small amounts. It is cheap and worth adding to your kitchen.
Tip for weighing very little quantities. Tare the scale without the glass, then put the glass, it will show the weigh of the glass, then just add the little amount of yeast and it will give you a more precise result.
Cold methods I like for consistency. But the knowing the principles of baking, I can choose either method (or a combination) depending on time and how I'm feeling.
You are great, i like all your videos.
Can you please make a separate video talking about over fermentation, what's bad about over fermentation? And how to know if my dough is over fermented or not? And is there a way to repair an over fermented dough?
Thank you ❤️
ruclips.net/video/N3vhXs3b07w/видео.html ✌
My first cold ferment was over fermented, my fault. I did not get back to it for 36 hours and it had risen only slightly in the fridge. I let it rise in the pan and again got busy and missed the rise, it sunk. For 5 minutes I tried to knead it back to a ball before calling it quits. Your questions were running through my mind also.
@@ChainBaker My understanding is that there is a difference between over-fermenting and over-proofing. The video linked deals more with under/over-proofing. This is more about getting the right amount of puff before baking. If you over-proof the bread structure won't be able to handle all the puff and will collapse. The danger with over-fermenting is slightly different and not as limited to the individual stage. As yeast (and LAB in sourdough) do their thing, they create alcohol (and lactic acid), this makes the microbiome of the bread higher in alcohol (and more acidic), this makes it harder for the yeast to survive. The yeast grow exponentially until the environment becomes to high in alcohol and then they die. So if you over-proof, you can usually re-shape, leave it to proof again (will take less time) and then bake. But if you tried to do that AGAIN, your dough would probably be over-fermented and be too high in alcohol for the yeast to make enough rise.
I bulk ferment my dough overnight. In the morning, I shape the dough, let it rise, and cook. Delicious.
I have the same scale, when it's not changing just push on it slightly to read higher and come back down, it kinda refresh it
Weighing trick I learned in Chemistry: Tare, put something that weighs a known amount (5g) and then aim for 5.3g in this case. I also have a very sensitive milligram scale. I use the same trick. It is easier to get a scale to measure from somewhere higher than naught.
궁금증이 같은 베이커들의 의문이 해소되어서 매우 명료해졌어요
공감 할수있는 영상에 감사합니다
thank you for your utube🤍
I use a 0.01 graded scale weighing, yeast, sugars, salt, Diastatic Malt Powder, and spices/herbs.
And I prefer to do a slow cold & warm fermentation with low yeast content, in my standard loaf size with 300gr water and 460gr flour I use 0.6 gr yeast, I always scald 160gr of the flour at start and wait 30 min before I add the rest of the ingredients, then I let it sit in room temp 25-30 degrees C for about 30 minutes, then it goes in the fridge for 8-72 hours (sometimes I make dough for 3 loaves) and take 1/3 after 8-12 hours, 1/3 after 32-36 hours and 1/3 after 56 or even 80-84 hours, when I get the dough out I let it warm up for 2-4 hours, then I fold it, and put it in loaf pan, I let it rise in loaf pan for another 1-3 hours before I bake it.
best dough I made was 60% 00 flour at room temperature overnight, 280g pizza ball with 2.7% salt and 0.5g yeast. It's hard to believe such little yeast yeads such hugh results. I noticed this dough was much more moist inside than the cold fermented dough.
I've got a beer and honey bread proofing right now bro thanks for the video🔥🔥🔥
Good timing, I was just thinking if fermenting in the counter for a couple hours is comparable to cold fermenting for several hours. Everything in me is against leaving food on the counter at room temp for 12 hours though, I was thinking max 3.
Just found your channel & LOVE IT!
I actually use both forms of fermentation. I allow the dough ball to proof room temperature 12 hours, desired rise, then I cold ferment. Imo, they taste the same.
Your local head shop has precision scales for weighing less than a gram. It's about 15 bucks but can be as much as 60, depending on how precise you want to be. If you're weighing just tenths, then don't worry about the expensive one you don't need it.
I have been toying with the idea of extended power outage bread… so I’ve been thinking of making my normal bread as a room temp ferment to cut down on manual kneading. I mill my grains fresh, so it takes a long time to knead. I would have to manually mill the grain, but then I could make a no-knead, no fridge, bake on coals bread.
Something I want to play with this year.
Let me know how it turns out!
Make me so cleared all of them. Thanks
Great tutorial as usual
While there is a slight difference in the mass volume weight between instant dry and active dry yeast, it's not enough to make a material difference in home applications. Using 1/4 teaspoon of either yeast is about 0.8 grams, so for 3 grams of yeast, measuring three level 1/4 teaspoons (3/4 tsp) of yeast will give you about 2.4 grams and measuring a four 1/4 teaspoons (1 full level tsp), will give you about 3.2 grams of yeast. Close enough for the home baker. Using 3.2 grams vs 3 grams isn't going to materially affect the home baker.
When needing small amounts of yeast, calculate the grams needed and divide that by 0.8. That will tell you approximately how many 1/4 teaspoons of yeast to use. Round up or down to whole or fractional 1/4 teaspoon measures as you see fit. With that said, a 1/8 teaspoon measure will give you about 0.4 grams per level spoonful.
In my experience, digital scales are sensitive to decimal weights, but only if it's not at zero. So, what I do is get two small containers, add water to the first container so the scale hits X0.0g, then measure the salt or yeast in the other container.
This is my experience too. You have to weigh it down a bit to get accuracy. I usually just use a bigger (heavier) bowl.
Okay, silly me - I decided to start on this after you posted the video (thinking 12 hrs, yes I can do this today), not really taking into account dough prep, the 30-min chill, extended proofing and then baking time. I think i had a few hours of sleep. 😴😴🛌
The results were very similar to your video. Photos have been posted on "Charlie's Baking Buddies".
Lan, the nocturnal baker 😁😴
@@ChainBaker 😆
I’ve tried the preferment method from your videos and it worked great! And now I wanna try the cold bulk fermentation method too. 😊 Do I still need to give the dough a fold after 15 mins of rest when I use mixer?
For sure. The fold will help it cool down more evenly.
I use cold fermentation for pizza dough, because it gives me the option of waiting another day or two. I prefer 3-5 day dough, but I'll do anything from 1-7 days. I usually make enough dough to have pizza twice.
increasingly Ive been leaning towards CF vs RT ferment. Dough is easier to work with and more flexibility with timing of shaping, proofing and baking with the cold ferment.
Can you do an experiment where you warm ferment for 12 hours and cold ferment for the remaining 12 hours?
I'll leave that one to you ✌️
I've tried room temp fermentation before but I found it wasn't really worth it, as sometimes I decide against baking the bread the next day due to changes in plans and such. Cold fermentation simply is way more flexible, I often leave it in the fridge for 2-3 days more than I initially intended and I get great and consistent results. This is mainly for pizza, mind you, but I think bread would be fine too.
Because of the unpredictability I've given up slow ferments at room temperature with the sole exception of pizza dough where I make it using Helen Rennie's recipe first thing in the morning for use at dinner time.
I'm usually in a hurry so I usually warm ferment, plus I have trouble determining how soon to take the dough out of the fridge if I want the bread to be done at a certain time and my oven is tied up or I want to have pizza at 7pm
For anyone doing small measurements like that, amazon has pretty cheap scales that have .01 accuracy for like 10-15 bucks just search cheap jewelry scale 👊🏾
Well, I like both.
Suggestion for video: What effect does adding some cornstarch to bread dough flour make? Does it rise more? Does it five it a more of a crispy crust? Thanks.
Here is one example ruclips.net/video/COGZOn9Rdyc/видео.html
I am planning to make a video about various starches in the future.
I prefer the room temperature because it doesn't need time to warm up before final proof.
I’m all for the cold fermented method, it’s more convenient for me anyway, I can control the time and/or the day I want to bake it, and the bread taste better too!😊
One question, if it’s over fermented in the fridge, can you still use it like the starters?🙏🏻
It is very hard to over ferment. Watch this ruclips.net/video/RuYfuBuOvGk/видео.html 😉
@@ChainBaker
I did…🙏🏻❤️
Maybe pocket gold scale would work with tiny amount.
I recommend what we call here a drug scale. They are much more sensitive and accurate. Resolution of mine is 0.01 grams. Maybe not accurate to 0.01 gram but even if not it's definitely close. Converted to US Dollars it was just 15 including shipping.
I now use that for yeast and even salt and sugar for small amount.
If you would use fresh yeast, the number would be bigger on the scale. This could help IMO :)
I only use room fermentation to prepare for no fridge dayz.
Great Baker, and handsome 😊😊👍👍
😍
Great video.
1:26 Just put a coin on the scale outside of the bowl to get within the scales range of reading.
I wouldn't have expected the cold fermented loaf to have stronger flavors. Cold temperatures inhibit enzymatic activities. So the cold fermented loaf is getting more of its flavor profile from the yeast fermentation, and less from the bacteria and enzymes.
Alcoholic fermentation occurs at lower temperatures and in the absence of oxygen. During this process the yeast produces carbon dioxide and alcohol (ethanol). Bacteria and acids are also produced. They are responsible for flavour and structure development. Starch will break down in a moist and acidic environment through hydrolysis. It is the acids that continue processing the starch while the amylase enzymes slow down at colder temperatures.
This is from my cold fermentation test video - www.chainbaker.com/fermentation-test/
Can you make a video comparing 2 hours fermentation with too much yeast vs 12 hours fermentation with a small amount of yeast? I wonder how much bread made in rush differs from a long fermentation bread
Yeast is not what gives the bread a fermented flavour. It just makes bread taste yeasty which is not what we want. Long fermentation takes the dough through processes which develop flavour and it takes quite some time to get decent taste from commercial yeast dough. The quick bread would taste yeasty and the slow fermented one would taste fermented.
THANKS
So I got another question for you..if your making a loaf of bread does it matter how much yeast you use if your goin to overnight proof it? I’ve been looking at so many recipes and some use a “scant” some use 15-20 grams does it make a difference as far as the cold proof process?
It matters a lot. You want to use less yeast than normally. I go for 1% in both cold bulk fermentation ruclips.net/video/x-8UoEgtt48/видео.html and cold proofing (video coming soon).
Enzyme is added to many popular flours so you got to go cold and slow or no flavor.
This might be a side issue, but do you have any insights concerning the length of fermentation regarding the breakdown of phytate in the whole wheat flour to make it more digestible? I'm looking to make a very healthy, very easily digested loaf of bread for my granddaughter, who currently has gastritis.
I'm mot qualified enough to add anything of value to that. I know that gluten gets broken down with longer fermentation, but not sure how it affects phytate. I am gluten intolerant and I find slow fermented bread to be significantly better for me. But that's just anecdotal evidence.
I think it's all about convenience. It is true that it is more predictable to put the dough in the fridge, but letting the dough rise at room temperature is not necessarily wrong. The reference value of leavening is the volume. So the fermentation hours are absolutely unreliable in the recipe. Clearly, the volumes of bulk fermentation and second leavening are chosen based on variables such as hydration, quantity of yeast and the type of baked product being made.
This is such a great comparison! I have a question though when it comes to producing open crumb bread. Would you say room temp fermentation is better to produce such bread since cold ferment produces tighter loaf?
Personally, I think cold proofing is a great way to achieve a more open crumb. There will be a cold proofing guide coming soon.
But you can certainly achieve it with any kind of fermentation.
Thank you so much for this comparison video.
Is all those advantages are the same for cold fermentation with sourdough bread ?
Should we increase % hydratation also?
Suggestioned episode vietnamese style baguettes. For banh mi sandwiches
So warm or room temp environments make a bread bread whereas cold makes a sort of pita bread or flatbread/un leaveneded bread
Any method can be used to make any bread
Oh, well then usually how does one make flatbread, in comparison to normal bread that would just be flat, is it in the amount of yeast used or rising agents I guess
@@ChainBaker like for instance could I opt to not use the yeast or replace the yeast with baking powder
Here's a whole playlist of flatbreads ruclips.net/p/PLJ97q0PY0sXKJedWbvgpmkl4la3a_dVIn