That buff doesn't go far enough, it needs to have Mega-Mega-Mega Windfury (in case the enemy plays alot of cheap taunts),Charge and for shits and giggle auto-uninstall the opponent's Hearthstone game when your opponent lose to that card.
Blizzard does not understand what tribal means. In every single card game ever, tribal synergies come with downsides, the individual cards are weaker. Every mech in Hearthstone right now has value in stats alone not even counting their effects. There is no downside to playing Mechs.
not just value, theyre better, spidertank is the first 3/4 for 3, and tinkertown is a 4/4 that doesnt have some shit like 50% miss or opponent draws a card. not to mention antique healbot is an incredible card on its own ignoring any mech synergy... Mech cards are currently the best cards and also have synergy...
True, imho these are just as broken cards as mechwarper / dr.boom: Piloted Shredder / Piloted Sky Golem. 4/3 for 4 mana is always better than a yeti since most 2-drops will have 2/3 health guaranteed, it requires multiple cards to get rid off (silence + attacking), it has the tribal effect. Piloted sky golem is even worse. Ironically Sneed's Old Shredder is somewhat balanced.
With the exception of Mech Warper and Blastmage (which is a class card) I'm pretty sure all of the mech synergy cards (not the mechs themselves) are subpar without mechs. Tinkertown is a 3/3, Cogmaster a 1/2, Cogmaster's Wrench a 1/3 etc. Mech Warper is really the only problem. With a more balanced Mechwarper, either 3 mana, or functioning like Pint Sized, Mech would be perfectly balanced. Blastmage could maybe do 1 less damage but as a class card can exist as a nice incentive to still play mech mage even if Warper is nerfed.
Tom Greenwood Kind of a red herring. "all of the mech synergy cards are subpar without mechs." Is like saying "all of the demon synergy cards are subpar without demons.".
I thought exactly the same thing while watching, scrolled down and this is what I see. 0.0 You can call me a prophet, considering that before undertaker nerf I guessed spot on what the nerf was
Raid leader is a 3 mana 2/2 that buffs your minions' attack by 1, Thrallmar farseer is a 3 mana 3/2 with windfury... yeah, I can see Mech Warper as a 3 cost minion and it would be much more balanced.
The issue with mech warper is pretty simple. The tone of the card doesn't match up with the rest of the mechs. Having a strong effect for a specific race is fine. I think some pirate cards have potentially very strong effects. Heck even murlocs the ultimate form of aggresion. But the fact remains that the other pirate or murlocs cards really aren't that good on their own. So the ridicilious synergy makes sense. But mechs? Even on their most of them with a few exceptions ofcourse are top tier cards. Mech cards get run in none mech decks with ease. Aslong as mech cards themselves are so good we can not have a card with such ridicilious synergy. I suggest changing it's effect to be the same as pint sized summoner. A 2/3 for 2 reduce the cost of the first mech you play by 1. If we are 2 maybe 3 expansions in and mech cards are no longer considered top tier then the effect can be changed back. Perhaps when we also have a card like scarlet purifier that deal 3 damage to all mechs mwahahahaah.
***** You missed my point. I am not saying we should nerf every mech like card to be shit. What i am saying is that mechs are currently too strong to also have a card that has a ridiculous synergy potential. so what i am saying is. Nerf mech warper. However imagine mech warper was a pirate card instead. Pirate warper. you see my point? That might make pirates viable maybe even top tier who knows but it wouldn't be as ridiclious. And we probably wouldn't be asking for it to get nerfed. To repeat. A card like mech warper that carries the entire race is fine. If the race is considered bad.
I'd say make mech warper a 2 mana 2/2. That 2 health makes a huge difference in the early game when it really matters. That number makes it die to zombie chow, keeper of the grove, among other things. That gives it less chance of curving out yetis and shredders and whatnot by turn 3. I don't know, I'm just throwing something out there.
EXACTLY! Mechwarper shines so fucking much if you go 2nd and have some 2 mana mechs with a coin, as kripp showed. if the person going first is able to drop a chow or leper gnome, it puts that mechwarper in a terrible spot to be played.
i don't think the 2 health would be a significant enough nerf. If your opponent has gone first he presumably already has a cogmaster on the field that could trade with your zombie chow. And when going second let's say he coins out an annoy-o-tron It would still need a direct answer on turn 2-3 before it could get 3 mana yeti or shredder in. And for most classes those answers would be the same as before. Wrath, darkbomb, fiery war axe, deadly poison. If you don't have the immediate answer is can already spiral out of control. Making it 2 health would increase the number of viable consistant answers for certain classes. But the fact would remain that the spiralizing is still very possible. My suggestion would be to change the effect to be similar to pint sized. Reduce the mana cost of the first mech you play on your turn by 1 mana, This would still alow strong turns. but it would remove the ridiclious and now i play my entire hand scenarios.
I think it should be a 0/2. A 2/3 for 2 is already standard, if you can manage to save 2 mana on other mechs with it, you get a free 2/3. Bullshit. If you're going to have tribals make the synergy cards have shit stats or shit effects, not decent stats AND effects.
I really love it when people knowledgeable about games make the differentiation between good and bad design and good and bad balance. Design is SO much more interesting to discuss.
In mtg we call mechwarper a cost reduction mechanic. It is interesting to note that the last three times MTG did one it led to bannings in multiple formats each time.
You can still get some bullshit combos at turn 4 with it and 2 damage doesn't really change anything unless against priest and sometimes other classes.
Against priest,paladin,hunter...Explosive sheep deals 2 damage...Of course you can get some bullshit combos, but the real problem about mech mage is that mechs in general are more beefy than your typical zoo deck.
2/3 is way too sticky when you think about the mechs it is able to get out, and how sticky they are. Shredders, harvest golems, annoy o trons, etc. That's one of the reasons the card is so good. Mechs are just too resilient, like lucas said
Why increase the stats? The attack is practically irrelevant. And Hobgoblin is a 2/3 with a far, far more niche (and to be frank, less powerful) ability.
HighLanderPony The less than one isn't the problem though, the mana cost is. I think a 3 mana 2/3 is the best way to nerf this card, as it's still viable but not as powerful that way.
i never understood how they thought mechwarper was okay. its better that pint sized summoner in every way. it works on every minion you play that turn, not just the first, and it has better stats, not to mention you can get immediate advantage off of it without having to wait a turn. it being limited to only mechs, in no way shape or form balances that out.
Hi, I just want to share a point of view I have about Undertaker and Dr Boom/Mechwarper. I believe that Blizzard make these cards stronger on purpose. They know the game better than anyone and I'm pretty sure they knew that undertaker would be in every deck with all the deathrattle minions, Dr Boom ? A super strong 7 mana cards, as Kripp said in his video "Dr Balanced". So I think they made OP cards because they want us to need them for any deck. Mechwarper is amazing, with other mechs. But what do you need to do to have other strong mechs, buying booster for most of the time... Cards are OP to make more money.
Probably the best way to deal with Mechwarper would be to change its stats and everything so that it is a 4 mana creature. That'd make it so Mech decks don't get to play 7 minions by turn 3, and it gives time for your opponent to actually have some kind of answer.
I think just about any nerf to Mechwarper would do a lot. You can lower it's health to 2, or even 1. You could weaken the effect by making it similar to Pint-Sized Summoner (+1 health for tribal-only feels fair.) You could add the Summoning Portal restriction of "but not less than 1." And of course there's Kripp's suggestion of increasing the mana cost to 3. Overall I think nerfing the effect or increasing the mana cost sounds the best, since even with reduced stats the right hand can still mean instant win.
+x10018ro A lot of people complain about not having dust for decks, but it's because they keep things like Hobgoblin that will never see any significantly high tier constructed play. Your friend is completely okay in disenchanting it.
I would like to see mech warper become this: 2 mana, 0/4, your mechs cost (1) less. Whenever you play a mech, deal 1 damage to all mech warpers in play. Enrage: + 2 attack. This way it is not a good card by itself and it dies faster if you abuse it.
Honestly i completely agree that Mech warper is OP but that's the nature of card games, and new releases. It usually goes. 1. release new OP cards to get sales, 2. Ban old OP cards to force people to get new OP cards or be stomped in competitive play.
ultimaT Best case scenario they would probably want to do it in a less obvious way tho. Instead of undertaker uhuhguhu. mechwarper, dr boom bleighgh and so on. Put in cards that aren't quite op but shift the meta game in such a way that the older cards aren't quite as viable anymore. Like how bgh doesn't quite work against kel thuzad, but say poison seeds deals with a kel thuzad board perfectly. Not a very good example perhaps but hey.
When Krip said it's basically roll a die and if you get 1 you lose, my first thought was "Well, I mean thats a 1 and 20 chance, not too bad". I am way too used to MtG and DnD.
I think seeing Mechwarper change into a 3 mana 3/3 "ALL mechs cost [1] less mana" would be interesting. Even keeping it as a 2 mana 2/3 and only changing the card to affect all mechs could work. This would kinda work like the murloc buff cards in the long-past popular murloc decks, which affect all murlocs on the board. Adds some risk to using the card, with potential reward if it does.
I like the idea of mechwarper being something like. 3 mana 1/3, summong a random 3 cost (or less) mech from your hand. Or idk. Maybe make it a 2 mana 2/2 with same effect.
When you're buying packs you can choose GvG cards or basic. next to basic is a sign that says "best for new players!". It should say "we hate new players and want you to spend gold on worthless trash." Some cool legendaries are in the basic set of course but if you want to build a strong foundation for collection you obviously need the shredders, the mechwarpers, the cogmasters and so on. The common cards you would almost be guaranteed to get after buying 7-10 packs
Best nerf to mechwarper is to simply make it no longer a mech. I think even that may be too large a nerf, but it's certainly a more compelling direction than the other ones I've seen so far.
I feel like you need to build a deck around Junk bot for it to be at all useful. Because I once picked it in Arena because believe it or not my other two choices were just as bad if not worse and I had a decent amount of mechs. The issue I had is that due to his high mana cost it was hard to ensure aside from when I was winning/had control of the board that I could play him and buff him in the sameturn. Since otherwise he gets killed by a 5/5 that only loses 1hp.
the main reason why mechwarper is op is because of its 3 health. IT just makes it that much harder to kill early on. Changing the health to 2 whilst increasing the attack would be a nerf actually.
A couple of days ago in Arena I went against a Mage. When she was at 8 mana she dropped 2 Mechwarpers, then used Echo of medivh and dropped 2 again and I didnt have a board so she was able to drop a Foe Reaper 4000 and some other things the turn after.
I lost an arena match yesterday to a turn 2 coin hobgoblin, turn 3 gnomeregan infantry, turn 4 silverback patriarch, turn 5 silverback patriarch voidwalker elven archer.
I ran a hobgob contructed deck for a couple of days. When it works it's great but its quite hard to make it work until late game and by that point the board clears cancel it out. The worst thing is when you pull all your 1 attack early and have to play them to do something on the board and when you get your hob you only pull 2+ attacks. So as said early its very niche.
insaneguy123 HAhahaha. Im sorry that probably was me if it was a Hunter deck. I did that deck with crappy cards like you just mentioned, because my first card was hobgoblin and wanted a fun arena deck. Btw, i have no idea how the hell i lasted until 7 wins, although with a deck like this i was destined to go full face unless i had good trades. Edit: you mentioned voidwalker it couldnt be me, since i was hunter.
The thing that makes hobgoblin such a well designed card in my opinion is that it can make you look at existing cards differently. Echoing ooze saw a bit of play before GvG but it was a bit underwhelming, but with hobgoblin it's two 3-4s for 2 mana which is insane. Wisp is hilariously bad... until it's a 3-3 for 0. Argent squire fell from grace since naxx and GvG released tons of great 1 drops, but with hobgoblin it outshines them all being a 3-3 divine shield for 1. With mechwarper you just grab all the best cards which happen to also be mechs.
After the almighty Undertaker got nerfed, people switched to that aggro hunter with all the cards under 4 mana or mech mage. It´s always like this, they find some toy to play with (like right now Mechwarper), then Blizzard nerfs the card so that nobody plays it and these players find another toy to play with.
All I'm thinking in regards to Hobgoblin is the value you'd get from using it with Paladin, upgraded hero power, and Quartermaster. It's definitely the dream, but it could be so good in theory.
Just like Krip said, Blizzard had a lot of experience with Pintsized summoner, and they knew full well how good Mechwarper is in the right deck. But they went ahead and released it anyway. I'm sure Undertaker was no different. We can only guess why this happens!
What if they just Murloc'd Mechwarper so that it read, "ALL mechs cost (1) less" it'd only be good if the deck stopped being played, meaning you could always play it, to a (near) full extent, but it can't ever make it back into the meta? Also, players would at least have a chance to 3/2 drop a Piloted shredder and other assorted mechs that exist out of mech decks for at least the chance to catch up?
Other cards with this effect are summoning portal and pint sized summoner, based on those cards stats we Can tell blizz values mana reduction pretty highly, pint size loses puts 1 mana at 0.5 mana of value (1 stat) and summoning portal puts a consistent 2 mana at 3 mana of value (compared to shield bearer) so a consistent 1 mana would probably be about 1.5 mana of stats, which is about the same as a card draw. On 2 mana, card draw cards are loot hoarder and pint sized summoner, no real comparative 3 drops, but on 4 you have gnomosh invented and cult master. Mech warper is limited in that it only reduced the cost of mechs, but that is mitigate by the fact you only play it in mech decks and it receives the 'mech' typing, so it's effect it approx worth 1 mana, mech warper should be a 2/3 for 3 TL;DR mech warpers effect is worth 1 mana, it should therefore cost 3 mana
I also think Darkbomb should be changed to 4 damage, and deal 1 damage to the warlock. I just think it's a little too bland compared to frostbolt and Wrath
theres a thing called soulfire no use to be changed i still prefer soulfire over darkbomb any day for me 3 damage is useless and even more useless if it does 4 damage and hurt me.
Warlock class cards are known to be worse than other class cards to balance out having the best hero power. if you have noticed the 2 best warlock decks are zoolock and handlock which are both built around the warlock hero power. not the cards.
I think soulfire should be changed back to 0 mana. That change was bullshit, darkbomb sucks balls, the change killed handlock, now it cant compete with rush decks at all unless you get perfect draws and they get a shitty opening.
Nah m8 it should be a 0 mana 0/0 that is always in your starting hand with a deathrattle of if this minion dies the opponent gives all his gold and cards to you and his account is forever banned
This would be a drastic change, but what if it got changed to a legendary? that way you only are ever allowed 1 to be in your deck, and you have to rely on RNG to get one from unstable, thoughtsteal, piloted shredder,etc.
Mech warper should now be 1) Rare for 3 with 3/3 with battlecry: your next mech will cost (2) less but not less than (1) 2) 2/3 for 3 with battlecry: Your mech minions with 4 or higher attack cost (1) less 3) Rare 2/3 for 2 with battlecry: whenever you summon a mech gain 1 mana crystal this turn only
I think a good nerf to mechwarper would be to make all mechs (including the opponent's) cost 1 less. Won't help if you're not playing mechs, but it will give you a chance to answer them if you are.
as much as I hate playing against mech mage you can't deny that mechwarper made the class viable in constructed sure it did all right before, but that was just the freeze archetype
Mechwarper should be 3 mana. That would help balance it out a little because your opponent couldn't coin one out first turn. Also cost reduction is a strong ability. BTW why is summoning portal a 4 for 0/4 which is minus 4 for total stat value and cannot reduce a minion below 1 cost while warper is a 2 for 2/3 having plus 1 for stat total and can reduce minions to have a cost of 0?
i don't think mech mage should be compared to huntard or zoo. mech mage isn't always about face face face. it's flexible to where it can turn into more of a control deck late game, which makes it more skill based and overall more fun to play imho.
Tried out this deck with a few changes (only had one fel cannon, played a piloted sky golem, and threw thermaplug in there for the hell of it). Have never climbed the ladder so quickly. If you can get mech warper and hobgoblin on the field at the same time, your opponent has a 25% chance of rage quitting. It made me feel dirty feeding the cancer, so I stopped playing it haha. Mech warper definitely needs nerfed, but not neutered like undertaker.
Mechmage is easy to counter if you have early board clear, wich most of the classes have. Now if you don't draw it the 5 first turns you're pretty screwed but still.
"I never get lucky!" -Kripp Gets x2 mechwarper, every turn he gets an outfilled curve because of the mechwarpers instead of playing on curve, gets both copies of 4 cards to combo even easier, draws both hobgoblins, gets the best possible stats from enhanco: The two highest health minions get taunt, the only effect the annoy-o-tron could get was windfury which it got. + Divine shield is the best, which he got for every other minion. Fucking Rng'd m8
i've been playing this a lot but without the higher cost minions, mostly just 1 attack minions + taunt mechs + hobgoblin but any kind of removal loses the game
The problem of this meta. Most early game minions have 3 health. Aoe spells mostly deal 2 damage. This is the main problem you cant deal with them. and board growing like crazy.
Unless you get to rank 5 and beyond then there may be something to do the deck... If you can beat the competition copy decks, then you know you've got something
But without extremely efficient early game cards for aggro this game would quickly devolve into: who has the greediest and slowest deck wins. And not the least most top control decks use quite a lot of epics and legendaries (hi warrior control) and those are quite hard to obtain by a free user. Hearthstone would simply become pay to win game.
mechwarper needs to be a 2/2 "IF" anything......that's all. Stop hating on aggro and please don't call mechmage "JUNK". we don't need anymore hate in this (not so skill intensive) game. hearthstone is casual that's why its good. ps. Kripp, you made a fun deck. :)
Ya and even after he does that , he will have next to no hand , of course not every class can deal with it, but it's not that big of a problem compared to double mechwarper which happens way more frequent
I'm 1 second into this video, paused. If FLARE is not the #1 worst designed card Kripp should be ashamed of himself. It's the most poorly designed, broken, arbitrary, senseless and plain stupid card in the game. Thanks to the nerf it is now nowhere near the #1 most broken card in the game but sadly, the rest very much stands. Now to actually watching it, wootwoot!
How is flare a bad card? It destroys secrets and stealth, then draws you a card. Worst case scenario you have a deck of 29-28 cards with it, best case you burn 4 secrets and get rid of that shade of nax stealth so you can kill it before it becomes huge. I'm aware the best case scenario is very unlikely. But even the worst case scenario isn't that bad. If everyone had the option of having smaller decks in HS they would. It translates into more reliable game winning combos.
pccthessnerd 1) Flare isn't GvG, and this video is about GvG. 2) Flare is ridiculously situational, and usually equates to 2 mana draw a card, which is actually underpowered compared to cards like Shiv or even Novice Engineer. Even when it maybe takes the stealth off of a Tiger or something, it often doesn't matter at all or doesn't matter enough to consider nerfing this card harder than Blizz already did by upping the mana cost, which in my opinion wasn't necessary AT ALL. 3) Just because you lose a game to a card doesn't mean it's overpowered. 4) You're wrong. 5) Now shut up.
I despise mech mage. I played 5 games yesterday and everyone of them was mech mage. The 5th one I didn't even play just conceded and quit. Absolutely ridiculous.
![[Hearthstone] Revisiting Fatigue Druid](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/He_mmmOQN9U/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Hearthstone] Revisiting Fatigue Druid](/img/tr.png)
![[Hearthstone] How Good Is Iron Juggernaut?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/a46mryWmoWo/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Hearthstone] My First TGT Decks](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2RszB4HiSPA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Hearthstone] Blame The Bomber Warrior](/img/1.gif)
I think if they make mech warper a 0 mana 12/12 that makes all mechs cost 0 it would be balanced.
hey at least it could be BGH'ed
***** he forgot to add stealth and spell immunity. Nah just give it immunity in general like the iceblock effect.
Should make it 4/12 so that it cant be bgh'd, shadow word pained or shadow word death'd.
Harry Blum but shrink cabaled :D
That buff doesn't go far enough, it needs to have Mega-Mega-Mega Windfury (in case the enemy plays alot of cheap taunts),Charge and for shits and giggle auto-uninstall the opponent's Hearthstone game when your opponent lose to that card.
Blizzard does not understand what tribal means. In every single card game ever, tribal synergies come with downsides, the individual cards are weaker. Every mech in Hearthstone right now has value in stats alone not even counting their effects. There is no downside to playing Mechs.
not just value, theyre better, spidertank is the first 3/4 for 3, and tinkertown is a 4/4 that doesnt have some shit like 50% miss or opponent draws a card. not to mention antique healbot is an incredible card on its own ignoring any mech synergy... Mech cards are currently the best cards and also have synergy...
True, imho these are just as broken cards as mechwarper / dr.boom: Piloted Shredder / Piloted Sky Golem.
4/3 for 4 mana is always better than a yeti since most 2-drops will have 2/3 health guaranteed, it requires multiple cards to get rid off (silence + attacking), it has the tribal effect.
Piloted sky golem is even worse. Ironically Sneed's Old Shredder is somewhat balanced.
They seemed to understand it with murlocs, and somewhat with beasts... Why did they make all mechs so good then? D:
With the exception of Mech Warper and Blastmage (which is a class card) I'm pretty sure all of the mech synergy cards (not the mechs themselves) are subpar without mechs. Tinkertown is a 3/3, Cogmaster a 1/2, Cogmaster's Wrench a 1/3 etc. Mech Warper is really the only problem. With a more balanced Mechwarper, either 3 mana, or functioning like Pint Sized, Mech would be perfectly balanced. Blastmage could maybe do 1 less damage but as a class card can exist as a nice incentive to still play mech mage even if Warper is nerfed.
Tom Greenwood Kind of a red herring. "all of the mech synergy cards are subpar without mechs." Is like saying "all of the demon synergy cards are subpar without demons.".
In my opinion the mechwarper should be changed to this : 2 mana 2-3 - Battlecry : The next mech you play costs [1] less.
As a BattleCry , rigth ? so that it only gives you a benefit of 1 mana discount . rather then a millions innervates .
bili4441 Oh yeah, I forgot to say that. Changin' it.
I thought exactly the same thing while watching, scrolled down and this is what I see. 0.0 You can call me a prophet, considering that before undertaker nerf I guessed spot on what the nerf was
Joald Hail Prophet Joald!
or the first mech you summon every turn
god its weird to go onto old videos befores the kriperinos
Raid leader is a 3 mana 2/2 that buffs your minions' attack by 1, Thrallmar farseer is a 3 mana 3/2 with windfury... yeah, I can see Mech Warper as a 3 cost minion and it would be much more balanced.
actually farseer is a 2/3
Not Kent Hovind i was just correcting the original comment, i didn't make an argument for or against anything. leave me be.
Cole444Train
Oops. I never use the card so easy mistake.
Not Kent Hovind
That's the point, they are terrible AND cost 3. Mech warper is insane and would still be good if it cost 3.
Not Kent Hovind but why would you reply to me saying those cards are terrible. i know they are. your reply was unrelated to my comment.
0:00 To watch Kripparino talkarino
6:55 To skipperino Kripparino talkarino
18:11 To skipperino kripparino videorino.
The issue with mech warper is pretty simple.
The tone of the card doesn't match up with the rest of the mechs.
Having a strong effect for a specific race is fine.
I think some pirate cards have potentially very strong effects.
Heck even murlocs the ultimate form of aggresion.
But the fact remains that the other pirate or murlocs cards really aren't that good on their own. So the ridicilious synergy makes sense.
But mechs?
Even on their most of them with a few exceptions ofcourse are top tier cards.
Mech cards get run in none mech decks with ease.
Aslong as mech cards themselves are so good we can not have a card with such ridicilious synergy.
I suggest changing it's effect to be the same as pint sized summoner.
A 2/3 for 2 reduce the cost of the first mech you play by 1.
If we are 2 maybe 3 expansions in and mech cards are no longer considered top tier then the effect can be changed back.
Perhaps when we also have a card like scarlet purifier that deal 3 damage to all mechs mwahahahaah.
Too long; didn't read.
UserName0043
Yes i know i use long text to filter out idiots.
Infact right in the middle i mention this!
*****
You missed my point.
I am not saying we should nerf every mech like card to be shit.
What i am saying is that mechs are currently too strong to also have a card that has a ridiculous synergy potential.
so what i am saying is.
Nerf mech warper.
However imagine mech warper was a pirate card instead. Pirate warper.
you see my point?
That might make pirates viable maybe even top tier who knows but it wouldn't be as ridiclious.
And we probably wouldn't be asking for it to get nerfed.
To repeat.
A card like mech warper that carries the entire race is fine. If the race is considered bad.
I'd say make mech warper a 2 mana 2/2. That 2 health makes a huge difference in the early game when it really matters. That number makes it die to zombie chow, keeper of the grove, among other things. That gives it less chance of curving out yetis and shredders and whatnot by turn 3. I don't know, I'm just throwing something out there.
EXACTLY! Mechwarper shines so fucking much if you go 2nd and have some 2 mana mechs with a coin, as kripp showed. if the person going first is able to drop a chow or leper gnome, it puts that mechwarper in a terrible spot to be played.
i don't think the 2 health would be a significant enough nerf.
If your opponent has gone first he presumably already has a cogmaster on the field that could trade with your zombie chow.
And when going second let's say he coins out an annoy-o-tron
It would still need a direct answer on turn 2-3 before it could get 3 mana yeti or shredder in. And for most classes those answers would be the same as before.
Wrath, darkbomb, fiery war axe, deadly poison.
If you don't have the immediate answer is can already spiral out of control.
Making it 2 health would increase the number of viable consistant answers for certain classes.
But the fact would remain that the spiralizing is still very possible.
My suggestion would be to change the effect to be similar to pint sized.
Reduce the mana cost of the first mech you play on your turn by 1 mana,
This would still alow strong turns.
but it would remove the ridiclious and now i play my entire hand scenarios.
Well don't just throw it out there, put it in the bin please. Thank you
Mike Lloyds gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8
I think it should be a 0/2. A 2/3 for 2 is already standard, if you can manage to save 2 mana on other mechs with it, you get a free 2/3. Bullshit. If you're going to have tribals make the synergy cards have shit stats or shit effects, not decent stats AND effects.
I really love it when people knowledgeable about games make the differentiation between good and bad design and good and bad balance. Design is SO much more interesting to discuss.
In mtg we call mechwarper a cost reduction mechanic. It is interesting to note that the last three times MTG did one it led to bannings in multiple formats each time.
6:55 Skipperino Kripperino
thx bro, saved me ther!
ty
gay
jamie taylor like your profil pic. ha!
Goshin o no the jokes! good one
Just put Mech Warper 2/2. Done.
You can still get some bullshit combos at turn 4 with it and 2 damage doesn't really change anything unless against priest and sometimes other classes.
Against priest,paladin,hunter...Explosive sheep deals 2 damage...Of course you can get some bullshit combos, but the real problem about mech mage is that mechs in general are more beefy than your typical zoo deck.
Mech Warper - Reduce the cost of mechs by 1, cannot reduce below 1
2/3 is way too sticky when you think about the mechs it is able to get out, and how sticky they are. Shredders, harvest golems, annoy o trons, etc. That's one of the reasons the card is so good. Mechs are just too resilient, like lucas said
More like a 3 mana 2/3
I think if they made mech warper 3 mana 3/3, it would be much more balanced. What do you guys think?
Hmm that kilss the meta... good idea
Why increase the stats? The attack is practically irrelevant. And Hobgoblin is a 2/3 with a far, far more niche (and to be frank, less powerful) ability.
There are already 2/3 cards that cost 2 mana. The mechwarper is a 2/3 with an active effect therefore it should cost 3 mana.
Or just give it the Pint Sized or Portal treatment (either applies to only the first mech played on a turn or the mechs can't cost less than 1).
HighLanderPony
The less than one isn't the problem though, the mana cost is. I think a 3 mana 2/3 is the best way to nerf this card, as it's still viable but not as powerful that way.
i never understood how they thought mechwarper was okay. its better that pint sized summoner in every way. it works on every minion you play that turn, not just the first, and it has better stats, not to mention you can get immediate advantage off of it without having to wait a turn. it being limited to only mechs, in no way shape or form balances that out.
Hi, I just want to share a point of view I have about Undertaker and Dr Boom/Mechwarper. I believe that Blizzard make these cards stronger on purpose. They know the game better than anyone and I'm pretty sure they knew that undertaker would be in every deck with all the deathrattle minions, Dr Boom ? A super strong 7 mana cards, as Kripp said in his video "Dr Balanced". So I think they made OP cards because they want us to need them for any deck. Mechwarper is amazing, with other mechs. But what do you need to do to have other strong mechs, buying booster for most of the time... Cards are OP to make more money.
When the sheep came out , you pause for like 5 seconds "thats pretty fucked up" lmao your face was hilarious
7:45 6/11 in stats on turn 2....thats what hearthstone has began
Probably the best way to deal with Mechwarper would be to change its stats and everything so that it is a 4 mana creature. That'd make it so Mech decks don't get to play 7 minions by turn 3, and it gives time for your opponent to actually have some kind of answer.
I think just about any nerf to Mechwarper would do a lot. You can lower it's health to 2, or even 1. You could weaken the effect by making it similar to Pint-Sized Summoner (+1 health for tribal-only feels fair.) You could add the Summoning Portal restriction of "but not less than 1." And of course there's Kripp's suggestion of increasing the mana cost to 3.
Overall I think nerfing the effect or increasing the mana cost sounds the best, since even with reduced stats the right hand can still mean instant win.
One of my friends disentchanted Hobgoblin with the argument "It sucks." He didnt even played it once...
It does suck
+Kieffus Its not that bad!
x10018ro it's not that bad but it's not in any of the top tier decks. It's a fun card at best but that doesn't cut it for this game.
+x10018ro
A lot of people complain about not having dust for decks, but it's because they keep things like Hobgoblin that will never see any significantly high tier constructed play. Your friend is completely okay in disenchanting it.
x10018ro Yeah I did the same with bolvar fordragon , feelsbadman
I would like to see mech warper become this: 2 mana, 0/4, your mechs cost (1) less. Whenever you play a mech, deal 1 damage to all mech warpers in play. Enrage: + 2 attack.
This way it is not a good card by itself and it dies faster if you abuse it.
Too complicated. 0/4 sounds like an overnerf as well.
lkjkhfggd don't we want more complexity to hearthstone as the game grows?
I think that idea sounds pretty cool.
Or, "Your other mechs cost (1) less and have (1) less health, but not less than (1)"
Guilherme Medina probs too complex for new players
I drew two mech warpers and my opponent surrendered at turn 3
*****
the thing is mechwarper was the only mech card he plays huehuehuehue
Honestly i completely agree that Mech warper is OP but that's the nature of card games, and new releases. It usually goes. 1. release new OP cards to get sales, 2. Ban old OP cards to force people to get new OP cards or be stomped in competitive play.
ultimaT
Best case scenario they would probably want to do it in a less obvious way tho.
Instead of undertaker uhuhguhu.
mechwarper, dr boom bleighgh and so on.
Put in cards that aren't quite op but shift the meta game in such a way that the older cards aren't quite as viable anymore.
Like how bgh doesn't quite work against kel thuzad, but say poison seeds deals with a kel thuzad board perfectly.
Not a very good example perhaps but hey.
why would he waste time against an auto-win hand?
ultimaT
Actually, it could be me.
When Krip said it's basically roll a die and if you get 1 you lose, my first thought was "Well, I mean thats a 1 and 20 chance, not too bad". I am way too used to MtG and DnD.
I think seeing Mechwarper change into a 3 mana 3/3 "ALL mechs cost [1] less mana" would be interesting. Even keeping it as a 2 mana 2/3 and only changing the card to affect all mechs could work. This would kinda work like the murloc buff cards in the long-past popular murloc decks, which affect all murlocs on the board. Adds some risk to using the card, with potential reward if it does.
I like how you said there was interaction in the second game when it was basically you steamrolling your opponent. Much skill.
Mechwarper should be the first mech you play each turn is one less
Wow that's such a good idea. You should be a game designer.
Wow I'm so offended
I also see you watch minecraft, which suggests you are an inbred or a 4 year-old.
should roll a dice to see if get's sucked into the warp each turn
UserName0043 I used to watch minecrafters... in 6th grade.
as if minecraft involves any skill whatsoever
I like the idea of mechwarper being something like. 3 mana 1/3, summong a random 3 cost (or less) mech from your hand. Or idk. Maybe make it a 2 mana 2/2 with same effect.
Today I lost 3 games to mechwarper and barely survived the 4th. A nerf must be done to this card, not a huge nerf but definitely must be nerfed
Not that I don't like Skillstone, but it'd be nice to see some more variety on this channel.
Yesterday: Preventing cancer against the Cancerwarper
Today: Spreading cancer with Cancerwarper
Demonstrating. There's a difference.
Semyon Galtsev
I don't think his opponents would agree with you there.
luckygozer Considering they, the opponents, were few and we, the viewers, are many, he's more warding off than spreading.
Semyon Galtsev
I don't think this video will have any impact on the number of mech mages in hearthstone tho.
luckygozer Me neither. I was just saying what Kripp was doing: not spreading the cancer.
When you're buying packs you can choose GvG cards or basic. next to basic is a sign that says "best for new players!". It should say "we hate new players and want you to spend gold on worthless trash." Some cool legendaries are in the basic set of course but if you want to build a strong foundation for collection you obviously need the shredders, the mechwarpers, the cogmasters and so on. The common cards you would almost be guaranteed to get after buying 7-10 packs
man for once, the opening wasn't just mindless filler and I actually was glad I saw it!
Best nerf to mechwarper is to simply make it no longer a mech. I think even that may be too large a nerf, but it's certainly a more compelling direction than the other ones I've seen so far.
Every time Kripp shares a deck "it has something like a 70% winrate", "something like an 80% winrate".
I feel like you need to build a deck around Junk bot for it to be at all useful. Because I once picked it in Arena because believe it or not my other two choices were just as bad if not worse and I had a decent amount of mechs. The issue I had is that due to his high mana cost it was hard to ensure aside from when I was winning/had control of the board that I could play him and buff him in the sameturn. Since otherwise he gets killed by a 5/5 that only loses 1hp.
the main reason why mechwarper is op is because of its 3 health. IT just makes it that much harder to kill early on. Changing the health to 2 whilst increasing the attack would be a nerf actually.
A couple of days ago in Arena I went against a Mage. When she was at 8 mana she dropped 2 Mechwarpers, then used Echo of medivh and dropped 2 again and I didnt have a board so she was able to drop a Foe Reaper 4000 and some other things the turn after.
I lost an arena match yesterday to a turn 2 coin hobgoblin, turn 3 gnomeregan infantry, turn 4 silverback patriarch, turn 5 silverback patriarch voidwalker elven archer.
I ran a hobgob contructed deck for a couple of days. When it works it's great but its quite hard to make it work until late game and by that point the board clears cancel it out. The worst thing is when you pull all your 1 attack early and have to play them to do something on the board and when you get your hob you only pull 2+ attacks. So as said early its very niche.
tehf00n It was at 6 wins so i honestly have no idea how that guy made it that high with silverback patriarchs
that is disgusting
insaneguy123
HAhahaha. Im sorry that probably was me if it was a Hunter deck. I did that deck with crappy cards like you just mentioned, because my first card was hobgoblin and wanted a fun arena deck.
Btw, i have no idea how the hell i lasted until 7 wins, although with a deck like this i was destined to go full face unless i had good trades.
Edit: you mentioned voidwalker it couldnt be me, since i was hunter.
The thing that makes hobgoblin such a well designed card in my opinion is that it can make you look at existing cards differently. Echoing ooze saw a bit of play before GvG but it was a bit underwhelming, but with hobgoblin it's two 3-4s for 2 mana which is insane. Wisp is hilariously bad... until it's a 3-3 for 0. Argent squire fell from grace since naxx and GvG released tons of great 1 drops, but with hobgoblin it outshines them all being a 3-3 divine shield for 1. With mechwarper you just grab all the best cards which happen to also be mechs.
After the almighty Undertaker got nerfed, people switched to that aggro hunter with all the cards under 4 mana or mech mage. It´s always like this, they find some toy to play with (like right now Mechwarper), then Blizzard nerfs the card so that nobody plays it and these players find another toy to play with.
Nice content. The last two constructed decks were really interesting.
All I'm thinking in regards to Hobgoblin is the value you'd get from using it with Paladin, upgraded hero power, and Quartermaster. It's definitely the dream, but it could be so good in theory.
It doesn't buff the dudes from his hero power cause you need to play it from hand (if it buffed those guys it would be quite insane)
Aw, damn. Aight. Thanks for the info. I was gonna say that it would make no sense as to why no one would ever play that in your decks.
lol yeah it kinda sucks but hey there's quartermaster if you wanna do what you said originally
Just like Krip said, Blizzard had a lot of experience with Pintsized summoner, and they knew full well how good Mechwarper is in the right deck. But they went ahead and released it anyway. I'm sure Undertaker was no different. We can only guess why this happens!
0:00 to watcherino kripperino
What if they just Murloc'd Mechwarper so that it read, "ALL mechs cost (1) less" it'd only be good if the deck stopped being played, meaning you could always play it, to a (near) full extent, but it can't ever make it back into the meta? Also, players would at least have a chance to 3/2 drop a Piloted shredder and other assorted mechs that exist out of mech decks for at least the chance to catch up?
Other cards with this effect are summoning portal and pint sized summoner, based on those cards stats we Can tell blizz values mana reduction pretty highly, pint size loses puts 1 mana at 0.5 mana of value (1 stat) and summoning portal puts a consistent 2 mana at 3 mana of value (compared to shield bearer) so a consistent 1 mana would probably be about 1.5 mana of stats, which is about the same as a card draw. On 2 mana, card draw cards are loot hoarder and pint sized summoner, no real comparative 3 drops, but on 4 you have gnomosh invented and cult master. Mech warper is limited in that it only reduced the cost of mechs, but that is mitigate by the fact you only play it in mech decks and it receives the 'mech' typing, so it's effect it approx worth 1 mana, mech warper should be a 2/3 for 3
TL;DR mech warpers effect is worth 1 mana, it should therefore cost 3 mana
Hey I just got my first 12 wins arena run, and it was a 12:0 :) really happy about it :) , 5 flamestrikes, 3 fireballs :D
I also think Darkbomb should be changed to 4 damage, and deal 1 damage to the warlock. I just think it's a little too bland compared to frostbolt and Wrath
and if this required them to just get rid of soulfire, yes plz
theres a thing called soulfire no use to be changed i still prefer soulfire over darkbomb any day for me 3 damage is useless and even more useless if it does 4 damage and hurt me.
Crabmaster but no one plays soulfire anymore...
Warlock class cards are known to be worse than other class cards to balance out having the best hero power. if you have noticed the 2 best warlock decks are zoolock and handlock which are both built around the warlock hero power. not the cards.
I think soulfire should be changed back to 0 mana. That change was bullshit, darkbomb sucks balls, the change killed handlock, now it cant compete with rush decks at all unless you get perfect draws and they get a shitty opening.
Nah m8 it should be a 0 mana 0/0 that is always in your starting hand with a deathrattle of if this minion dies the opponent gives all his gold and cards to you and his account is forever banned
This would be a drastic change, but what if it got changed to a legendary? that way you only are ever allowed 1 to be in your deck, and you have to rely on RNG to get one from unstable, thoughtsteal, piloted shredder,etc.
What's that tune that always ends Kripp's videos? I like it.
Mech warper should now be
1) Rare for 3 with 3/3 with battlecry: your next mech will cost (2) less but not less than (1)
2) 2/3 for 3 with battlecry: Your mech minions with 4 or higher attack cost (1) less
3) Rare 2/3 for 2 with battlecry: whenever you summon a mech gain 1 mana crystal this turn only
Why would it have to be a Rare....?
DJ ID Arena duh
Oh yeah I forgot that Mechwarper is sooooooooo broken in Arena...
DJ ID It would prevent people from playing mech warper into force tank max.. :P that would never happen in constructed..
Just some ideas.. I dont even think 2/3 with your mechs cost 1 less is op.. :D I actually like mechwarper
I think a good nerf to mechwarper would be to make all mechs (including the opponent's) cost 1 less. Won't help if you're not playing mechs, but it will give you a chance to answer them if you are.
Owning people at rank 15 always legitimate proof to the OPness of a card/deck.
If Mechwarper was made a 2/2 it'd be far more balanced.
as much as I hate playing against mech mage you can't deny that mechwarper made the class viable in constructed
sure it did all right before, but that was just the freeze archetype
Looks at 2 mana AnnyOtron: "So overprized:"
Mechwarper should be 3 mana. That would help balance it out a little because your opponent couldn't coin one out first turn. Also cost reduction is a strong ability.
BTW why is summoning portal a 4 for 0/4 which is minus 4 for total stat value and cannot reduce a minion below 1 cost while warper is a 2 for 2/3 having plus 1 for stat total and can reduce minions to have a cost of 0?
Start first against a mech mage = gg. Coin - Mechwarper - Clockwork gnome.
As a Paladin main, this officially ruffles my jimmies...
i don't think mech mage should be compared to huntard or zoo. mech mage isn't always about face face face. it's flexible to where it can turn into more of a control deck late game, which makes it more skill based and overall more fun to play imho.
Mechwarper is on the same page as Dr Boom, they are both OP and going to get nerfed eventually, but for now everyone is abusing them.
Making mech warper a legendary might fix the problem.
No, just no
+Fluffasaur Why not?
+trucid2 While we're at it, let's make pint-sized summoner legendary too kappa
+John Xue And Goldshire Footman!
I rly like felcannon ^^ with demolishers you just bombard the board xD
wouldnt the felcannon just kill the demolishers
demolishers are mechs ^^
RighteousNicky oh okay, my bad
*****
geddon would kill your others... rest of it is fine though
Felcannon demolishers pirate deck with pirate ships :D
9:20 Krip turns into mech mage, freeze mage, and aggro hunter (both post and pre patch)
Tried out this deck with a few changes (only had one fel cannon, played a piloted sky golem, and threw thermaplug in there for the hell of it). Have never climbed the ladder so quickly. If you can get mech warper and hobgoblin on the field at the same time, your opponent has a 25% chance of rage quitting. It made me feel dirty feeding the cancer, so I stopped playing it haha. Mech warper definitely needs nerfed, but not neutered like undertaker.
Had a big smile on my face when I realized the Force Awakens reference ;)
I didn't catch it
Crabmaster The intro titles of the videos: "the dark side ... and the light"
RevanZim Dude, that's kinda just an overall moral concept, Star Wars didn't invent it lmao.
that anoytron at the end was the student of al'akir lol
That annoyotron doesn't want to be Tirion, he wanted to be Al'Akir
Come to think of it, why don't people run Nerubian Egg in Mechlock? It's got good synergy with Fel Cannon.
I think that the right nerf is to turn it to a 2 mana 1/3 and mech cost cannot drop under 1
@Tyrael would be pretty horrible change, because theres already a same card that makes any first minion cost 1 less
To me Mechwarper should be a 2-2 with "playing a mech costs 1 less but no less then 1"
Mechmage is easy to counter if you have early board clear, wich most of the classes have. Now if you don't draw it the 5 first turns you're pretty screwed but still.
"I never get lucky!" -Kripp
Gets x2 mechwarper, every turn he gets an outfilled curve because of the mechwarpers instead of playing on curve, gets both copies of 4 cards to combo even easier, draws both hobgoblins, gets the best possible stats from enhanco: The two highest health minions get taunt, the only effect the annoy-o-tron could get was windfury which it got. + Divine shield is the best, which he got for every other minion. Fucking Rng'd m8
so i tossed out 1 junk added a siphon soul .. also thinking about removing the clockgnomes for x2 darkbomb fun deck nontheless
What about changing Mech Warper to "The first mech you play each turn costs 1 less"
Gnomeregan Infantry was made for aggro and otk priest. It's (almost) totally viable!
i've been playing this a lot but without the higher cost minions, mostly just 1 attack minions + taunt mechs + hobgoblin but any kind of removal loses the game
Also I throw in angry chickens for the possible double hobgob double angery chicken which is lethal in most cases
man i love getting enhance-o mechano with 6 creatures on board Kreygasm
The problem of this meta. Most early game minions have 3 health. Aoe spells mostly deal 2 damage. This is the main problem you cant deal with them. and board growing like crazy.
Tippers for the Krippers... finally subscribed to his stream lol
I never thought I see a 5/6 windfury annoy o tron
Dat moment when the Annoy-o-tron is better than Al-Akir.
make mech warper a 1/3 for 3 and dont let it drop mech cost below 1, it will still drop them by 1 but they cant be free
The skipperino kripporino is hella usefull
Unless you get to rank 5 and beyond then there may be something to do the deck... If you can beat the competition copy decks, then you know you've got something
Replace mech with pirate and you have the current meta
But without extremely efficient early game cards for aggro this game would quickly devolve into: who has the greediest and slowest deck wins. And not the least most top control decks use quite a lot of epics and legendaries (hi warrior control) and those are quite hard to obtain by a free user. Hearthstone would simply become pay to win game.
that win streak was only possible because you were playing rank games at ranks 16~14
Is this a re-upload? I've seem this before and I don't remember seeing it on stream. Maybe I did... Maybe not..
I was expecting a top X type of thing tbh...
mechwarper needs to be a 2/2 "IF" anything......that's all. Stop hating on aggro and please don't call mechmage "JUNK". we don't need anymore hate in this (not so skill intensive) game. hearthstone is casual that's why its good.
ps. Kripp, you made a fun deck. :)
Nice Star Wars reference kripperino
How about archmage and knife juggler? They turn from alright to stupid ridiculous after the expansion.
Have you noticed Kripp's not simetrical beard from his left side?
idk... innervate hobgoblin wisp wisp on turn one seem pretty op to me better nerf hobgoblin to 4 mana 2/2 plz.
***** u cant say that allmost never happens its about the same odds
***** dw bud u missed the point
***** 50/50 It happens or it doesn't.
Ya and even after he does that , he will have next to no hand , of course not every class can deal with it, but it's not that big of a problem compared to double mechwarper which happens way more frequent
I'm 1 second into this video, paused. If FLARE is not the #1 worst designed card Kripp should be ashamed of himself. It's the most poorly designed, broken, arbitrary, senseless and plain stupid card in the game. Thanks to the nerf it is now nowhere near the #1 most broken card in the game but sadly, the rest very much stands.
Now to actually watching it, wootwoot!
How is flare a bad card? It destroys secrets and stealth, then draws you a card. Worst case scenario you have a deck of 29-28 cards with it, best case you burn 4 secrets and get rid of that shade of nax stealth so you can kill it before it becomes huge. I'm aware the best case scenario is very unlikely. But even the worst case scenario isn't that bad. If everyone had the option of having smaller decks in HS they would. It translates into more reliable game winning combos.
pccthessnerd 1) Flare isn't GvG, and this video is about GvG.
2) Flare is ridiculously situational, and usually equates to 2 mana draw a card, which is actually underpowered compared to cards like Shiv or even Novice Engineer. Even when it maybe takes the stealth off of a Tiger or something, it often doesn't matter at all or doesn't matter enough to consider nerfing this card harder than Blizz already did by upping the mana cost, which in my opinion wasn't necessary AT ALL.
3) Just because you lose a game to a card doesn't mean it's overpowered.
4) You're wrong.
5) Now shut up.
Still, even then it wasn't "broken" or "ridiculous."
HOBGOBLIN + ANGRY CHICKEN!! BOOM!
oh shit meta strat, funny thing is it could work
I despise mech mage. I played 5 games yesterday and everyone of them was mech mage. The 5th one I didn't even play just conceded and quit. Absolutely ridiculous.
blizzard devs should watch every hearhstone video that kripp puts out!