Someone has probably already said this, but the thread and spider could also be related to a story in Buddhism. Buddha took pity on a sinner in Hell, who had comitted one kind deed in his life -- not killing a spider. Buddha sent a spider's thread down so the sinner could climb out of Hell, but other doomed souls took notice and began to climb as well. The Sinner yelled at the other souls to stop, this was HIS thread and his alone, but that selfish action caused the thread to snap, leaving him trapped in Hell.
Interesting, I've never really thought of SH2 being a retelling of Dante's Inferno. Afterall, that story was about Dante descending into hell to find his wife.
I noted both rings are related to the place they're found. Copper ring is found in the "basement's basement" in a very small and dark space just perfect for spiders to be. And lead ring is found into a fridge with no power. Anything like a corpse could end up bloated if it was kept in there. In fact James alerts about a horrible smell coming out from there.
The thread might also be a reference to the crossing of the bridge to Sheol. In Jewish tradition, a departed soul will cross a bridge to get to the kingdom of heaven. The bridge will thin to the width of a thread and their sins that had not been atoned for will weigh them down and drop them into Sheol. This would imply that James is walking the path to redemption for his transgressions against Mary, and the weight of his sin will drop him into Silent Hill's equivalent to Sheol.
I need not watch anyone elses symbolism videos for Silent Hill games anymore to understand things now. You pretty much answer all my questions in these and they are so great!
Different takes might shine light on different things. Nothing wrong with hearing what others interpretations hold. In the end, it’s more Silent Hill think pieces.
Yay! New Muse video! Seriously though, 18 years later and I’m still learning new things about this game’s symbolism that I never took into consideration.
I'm also curious about the rings. Lead is also a highly toxic metal as well as a heavy metal so whoever's wore that ring was possibly weighed down by it and could symbolize the toxicity of their marriage. Copper on the other hand is much lighter, very malleable, but is cheap compared to gold or silver which wedding rings are usually made. Copper is also used to make bronze when mixed with tin. Bronze is used for 3rd place in events as well so possibly the copper ring is lighter but the marriage is not taken as seriously as it should have been such as taking their vows as serious.
You brought up something about Maria's death that really got me. If we're to look at her death through a symbolically Biblical lens, Adam's original sin wasn't eating the fruit, it was not protecting Eve, since he was there the entire time, and he says nothing. The exact same way James scurries into the elevator, only concerned for himself instead of protecting her. The possible additional layer of meaning, a reference to Original Sin leading to death was just really cool to me...
It's probably a statement on her decaying self image, she sees her death at every turn and that's why if you stay long enough there, she dies (Hope that helped a bit)
Its not a mirror its another room with dark heather, the same way allessa was visited by her dark self. Its God growing inside her changing the world around her. Leaking out of her mind.
I think the mention of the spider's thread is also an allusion to the Buddhist story, where Budha lowers a spiders thread down to hell, to save a condemned man. The thread snaps and the criminal falls back in, because he tried to selfisly kick off other condemned souls trying to make their way up as well. Good video, though! I love your content.
Holy shit, I've never thought about it like that. Again, Muse is finding content so many years after the game was released that I've never seen mentioned as a fan of these series for many years.
7:25 If you play on maximum difficulty Maria will be killed by Pyramid Head well before James reaches the elevator unless you stop long enough to unload ten or so bullets at him through the grating. I guess James is a little less self centered in that scenario.
I love these games. All of them, even the less liked ones. It's a shame they stopped making them. I would've liked to play that one that starred that guy from The Walking Dead.
Yeah me neither, it makes a lot of sense tho! Especially when you take into consideration the fight against eddy is in a frozen room at the very bottom of the historic society and then you immediately cross the lake to the hotel (the final level of Dante's Inferno is a frozen lake). Also its where James first acknowledges that he killed a human being. Such a great fuckin game.
Perhaps the angel reference isn't meant in a actual sense of being an angel but rather Joseph's perspective. Jacob's Ladder has a quote in the film by Louis that says "If you're afraid of dying, and you're holdin' on, you'll see devils tearin' your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freein' you from the world. It all depends on how you look at it." Perhaps that last line is how we should interpret angel. From our end, the Lady does not sound the romanticized version of angel but to Joseph's perspective, her ability to judge and condemn may be an act of mercy to Joseph. Which may relate back to James and his desire to be punished for his perceived crime of wanting to suffer.
Yeah, the devs of God of War definitely got it right. Seeing as how they're so concerned with lynguistic and historical accuracy and all. You can tell by the way they lovingly rendered 20 gorgons with their tits out.
In the new remake when you open the lady of the door you get a cutscene with James and maria. Maria has a bad feeling about the hallway but James extends his hand out to her and she takes it, leading to her death. As the camera moves back you see the lady of the door with her hand reaching out the empty puzzle box that James had just solved. This symbolizes how Mary reached out to James and James gave her nothing, but instead, death in return.
The spider ring and the repeated mentions of thread reminded me of a japanese story called "The Spider's Thread", the story is about kinda similar if compared side by side with the context of SH2. The story tells that a criminal in hell has been given a chance of salvation by the buddha by allowing a spider thread to go down and let the criminal climb up to heaven, however, when the criminal noticed that others started to climb, he kicked the others, stating that it was only his and not the other's salvation, in which point, the thread breaks and the criminal has fallen back due to his selfishness, it can be related to James' selfishness and lust that led to the death of Maria and his fall back in hell.
Could the rings be a symbol of If James decides to keep going with the endless cycle. It will lead to death? Choosing to stay with Maria will lead to death?
Ey Muse, could you do a symbolism video about "Until Dawn" ? Because many people don't realize it, but there's a lot of symbolism behind the personalities, choices and even some of the characters'deaths.
I hated that game for the first 2 hours. It was such a typical dumb group of teens setup and scenario. It felt so derivative and cringey, but then something happened. Character development. I found myself rooting for certain characters that I actually hated before. I really enjoyed that game, and I was surprised because I was ready to quit within the first 30 minutes. Glad I gave it the chance.
You're reading into it. James already knew Maria wasn't Mary. He only questions it later on because Maria verbalized memories that only Mary could have. But it was soon after their first meeting that he realized Maria only looked like Mary, but wasn't her. The door doesn't reference marriage. The rings go to the lady, not to James or Maria. The rings represent reincarnation. Maria dies so she can be reborn. James falls at the end because of his sin. His decent into darkness continues. As for what Mary is trying to tell James in that instance, it is that James couldn't do anything to save Maria, just as he couldn't do anything to save her when she was alive. She's saying that it isn't his fault. However, Silent Hill is making James feel guilty about Maria, which leads to exploring his guilt over Mary. Thus his next stop is the Historical Society, where he delves into his guilt and anguish. That is his punishment phase, and he descends the stairs, seemingly bottomless, to confront his own darkness.
They are warriors and judges who kill and fight in wars; from Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed by an angel, to the angel Samael's role in the story of Job, they are not as "angelic" as common culture portrays them.
Most of the times when somebody corrects another person on the internet it comes across as hostile, and it's not my intention. The pronunciation of Thanatos is wrong, It's THAnatos, not ThaNAtos
Thanatos - a god of death. Yes, true, but rarely used in this capacity. Simply means "death" . Athanatos meaning "against death" , aka "immortal" . Interestingly, thanatos is almost always used in the capacity of describing death, instead of naming a god, while athanatos is almost always used as another way to name God the Father of greek Orthodox Christianity
Angels are not evoked in silent hill often?? Do you even Silent Hill bro? Samael... The Bridge... The thread... Devouring sin and sinner. Gods messenger of Justice. The rings symbolize the two overlapping worlds. Spider devouring the bloated corpse. Samael Metatron Valtiel Room of angel Serpent God the sun godess Shepherd Othiel Hagith Phaleg Bethor Cybil (The prophetess) Doors and angels and bridges and strands are everywhere in silent hill. All of them.
the only angel who became bad is the devil but other angels noo they help us humens sometimes as a proof once i got stepped on by a car i was crossing the street and something pulled me to the other street i was saved ❤
It could ve easily been someone that already died there and didn't wanted the same to happen to you If it was indeed an angel, it would only means that they play with humans, I mean, saving one but letting tons of kids being tortured and killed daily....it surely would make sense...
The spider ring and the repeated mentions of thread reminded me of a japanese story called "The Spider's Thread", the story is about kinda similar if compared side by side with the context of SH2. The story tells that a criminal in hell has been given a chance of salvation by the buddha by allowing a spider thread to go down and let the criminal climb up to heaven, however, when the criminal noticed that others started to climb, he kicked the others, stating that it was only his and not the other's salvation, in which point, the thread breaks and the criminal has fallen back due to his selfishness, it can be related to James' selfishness and lust that led to the death of Maria and his fall back in hell.
Someone has probably already said this, but the thread and spider could also be related to a story in Buddhism. Buddha took pity on a sinner in Hell, who had comitted one kind deed in his life -- not killing a spider.
Buddha sent a spider's thread down so the sinner could climb out of Hell, but other doomed souls took notice and began to climb as well. The Sinner yelled at the other souls to stop, this was HIS thread and his alone, but that selfish action caused the thread to snap, leaving him trapped in Hell.
20 years on and there's still stuff to talk about in this game
I get your point, but i don't think its surprising. Art has a way of standing the test of time, this is the Dante's Inferno of video games.
Amazing isn't it?
Ad 20 years from now I'm sure we will still be taking about silent hill...
Stop, I'm 19, but hearing that this game is 20 (in September this year) gives me existential dread.
2 decades, damn, still remember playing SH1 during highschool
WHY THERE IS A DEEPER MEANING OF EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME?
Because when it was made, they wanted to send a message , money weren't all they cared about
This is why this game is a masterpiece and unique
because it was made by japanese people
Because they put real esoteric knoledge into its DNA and that stuff goes back to day one of mankind
doukan Maybe to make up for the fact that the final boss was a haunted mattress?
Interesting, I've never really thought of SH2 being a retelling of Dante's Inferno. Afterall, that story was about Dante descending into hell to find his wife.
Beatrice was never his wife.
@@vidamuerta7846 mere technicalities
I noted both rings are related to the place they're found.
Copper ring is found in the "basement's basement" in a very small and dark space just perfect for spiders to be.
And lead ring is found into a fridge with no power. Anything like a corpse could end up bloated if it was kept in there. In fact James alerts about a horrible smell coming out from there.
The thread might also be a reference to the crossing of the bridge to Sheol. In Jewish tradition, a departed soul will cross a bridge to get to the kingdom of heaven. The bridge will thin to the width of a thread and their sins that had not been atoned for will weigh them down and drop them into Sheol. This would imply that James is walking the path to redemption for his transgressions against Mary, and the weight of his sin will drop him into Silent Hill's equivalent to Sheol.
Thank you. I thought of this as well and was going to mention it.
Samael the angel that collects the souls of those who fail the test of innocence.
I need not watch anyone elses symbolism videos for Silent Hill games anymore to understand things now. You pretty much answer all my questions in these and they are so great!
Different takes might shine light on different things. Nothing wrong with hearing what others interpretations hold. In the end, it’s more Silent Hill think pieces.
Why can't we have games like this anymore?
PT was the closest thing we got on recent times....
Yay! New Muse video! Seriously though, 18 years later and I’m still learning new things about this game’s symbolism that I never took into consideration.
I'm also curious about the rings. Lead is also a highly toxic metal as well as a heavy metal so whoever's wore that ring was possibly weighed down by it and could symbolize the toxicity of their marriage. Copper on the other hand is much lighter, very malleable, but is cheap compared to gold or silver which wedding rings are usually made. Copper is also used to make bronze when mixed with tin. Bronze is used for 3rd place in events as well so possibly the copper ring is lighter but the marriage is not taken as seriously as it should have been such as taking their vows as serious.
You brought up something about Maria's death that really got me. If we're to look at her death through a symbolically Biblical lens, Adam's original sin wasn't eating the fruit, it was not protecting Eve, since he was there the entire time, and he says nothing. The exact same way James scurries into the elevator, only concerned for himself instead of protecting her. The possible additional layer of meaning, a reference to Original Sin leading to death was just really cool to me...
Good marriage advice: protect your spouse and learn to listen to what the other has to say.
Most Christians seem to blame woman for all sins when they forget that adam was also punished ..
Wow, great video. I always love when someone manages to make me speculate more about things in one of my favorite games, adds more to it
There are many details in this game that can go unnoticed that makes the game very unique and one of the best.
Can you do a symbolism for the room in Silent Hill 3 that turns to blood and pulsating flesh?
It's a vagina?
The one with the floor to ceiling mirror with gory heather in it?
It's probably a statement on her decaying self image, she sees her death at every turn and that's why if you stay long enough there, she dies
(Hope that helped a bit)
@@pantyhatgirl7568 Thank you! 🙏
Its not a mirror its another room with dark heather, the same way allessa was visited by her dark self. Its God growing inside her changing the world around her. Leaking out of her mind.
I think the mention of the spider's thread is also an allusion to the Buddhist story, where Budha lowers a spiders thread down to hell, to save a condemned man. The thread snaps and the criminal falls back in, because he tried to selfisly kick off other condemned souls trying to make their way up as well. Good video, though! I love your content.
i really wasn't expecting it to be so thoughful, really nice
Go I love these. The fact that new videos on these games still release truly show how much of a masterpiece these games are. Bless.
Holy shit, I've never thought about it like that. Again, Muse is finding content so many years after the game was released that I've never seen mentioned as a fan of these series for many years.
I've been waiting for another silent hill symbolism and I'm not disappointed
7:25 If you play on maximum difficulty Maria will be killed by Pyramid Head well before James reaches the elevator unless you stop long enough to unload ten or so bullets at him through the grating. I guess James is a little less self centered in that scenario.
Missed your SH videos!
Oh this just made my night
Angels in Bayonetta are more accurate to the christian bible than angels in most christian art
I love these games. All of them, even the less liked ones. It's a shame they stopped making them. I would've liked to play that one that starred that guy from The Walking Dead.
Never thought of Dante’s inferno but it’s so obvious. Well done. 👍
Yeah me neither, it makes a lot of sense tho! Especially when you take into consideration the fight against eddy is in a frozen room at the very bottom of the historic society and then you immediately cross the lake to the hotel (the final level of Dante's Inferno is a frozen lake). Also its where James first acknowledges that he killed a human being. Such a great fuckin game.
My favorite Muse is back.
Perhaps the angel reference isn't meant in a actual sense of being an angel but rather Joseph's perspective. Jacob's Ladder has a quote in the film by Louis that says "If you're afraid of dying, and you're holdin' on, you'll see devils tearin' your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freein' you from the world. It all depends on how you look at it." Perhaps that last line is how we should interpret angel. From our end, the Lady does not sound the romanticized version of angel but to Joseph's perspective, her ability to judge and condemn may be an act of mercy to Joseph. Which may relate back to James and his desire to be punished for his perceived crime of wanting to suffer.
muse should cosplay as the door of room 302
I remember from having played God of War: Ghost of Sparta, that the stress in the word Thanatos- which is a noun- falls on the first syllable
Yeah, the devs of God of War definitely got it right. Seeing as how they're so concerned with lynguistic and historical accuracy and all.
You can tell by the way they lovingly rendered 20 gorgons with their tits out.
@@meursault7030 I just referred to something most people are familiar with. My point is that the enunciation here was incorrect.
@@slowmercy69 Mmhmm sure you were, buuuuddy. Very interesting.
In the new remake when you open the lady of the door you get a cutscene with James and maria. Maria has a bad feeling about the hallway but James extends his hand out to her and she takes it, leading to her death. As the camera moves back you see the lady of the door with her hand reaching out the empty puzzle box that James had just solved. This symbolizes how Mary reached out to James and James gave her nothing, but instead, death in return.
Silent hill 2 is a masterpiece, i love this game and i love your videos!
Does anyone know what the song in the background is, the only known answer seemingly got deleted.
Ah a good story to listen to before bed.
well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me door lady
Amazing..almost 20 years later and stuff is still be found about this awesome game. Sucribed
Another thing with the thread and spider could do with the story "The Spider's Thread".
I thought the same thing!
Nice as always! Keep up the good work!
THIS WEEK IS OFF TO THE BEST START
Wow, you just made me realised something
Experiences in Silent Hill is sort of a long, bloody and grim mental therapy sessions
Love your content !
When I first saw that door I find it creepy because I thought those hands are going to move
The spider ring and the repeated mentions of thread reminded me of a japanese story called "The Spider's Thread", the story is about kinda similar if compared side by side with the context of SH2. The story tells that a criminal in hell has been given a chance of salvation by the buddha by allowing a spider thread to go down and let the criminal climb up to heaven, however, when the criminal noticed that others started to climb, he kicked the others, stating that it was only his and not the other's salvation, in which point, the thread breaks and the criminal has fallen back due to his selfishness, it can be related to James' selfishness and lust that led to the death of Maria and his fall back in hell.
Thanks for the upload!!
Spot on! Great analysis
This is a deep cut on probably the deepest game of all time. Good stuff, thank you.
I actually found out by taking the hit because I was in front of Maria.. I barely saw him .. didn't even notice
Could the rings be a symbol of If James decides to keep going with the endless cycle. It will lead to death? Choosing to stay with Maria will lead to death?
I don’t know if it’s intentional or not, but your delivery is starting to remind me of Rob Dyke.
I love Rob ^_^ shame his channel has taken such a hit over the years x.x
Keep it up. Great video.
any plan on doing an esoteric analysis on Death Stranding??
I don't know if anyone has done this theory already, but in Silent Hill Homecoming, who's the lady in the room that Alex gets the pictures for?
Nice video, very interesting! Just hard to understand for me because of the many random interruptions for advertising, I will have to see it again...
One minor detail: Thanatos is not the god of death, but rather a personification of it.
It's too late, she's gone
What's the track in the beginning?
This is some streeeeeeeeetchy logic.
It’s definitely reaching but it’s nice to see people still making content about this game
Nice!
*hitting pans and pots* Muse content! Muse content! :D
Yaaassss!
Ey Muse, could you do a symbolism video about "Until Dawn" ? Because many people don't realize it, but there's a lot of symbolism behind the personalities, choices and even some of the characters'deaths.
I hated that game for the first 2 hours. It was such a typical dumb group of teens setup and scenario. It felt so derivative and cringey, but then something happened.
Character development.
I found myself rooting for certain characters that I actually hated before. I really enjoyed that game, and I was surprised because I was ready to quit within the first 30 minutes.
Glad I gave it the chance.
Samael is a fallen angel. IDK.
I noticed you don't play fire emblem no more. What happened? Did you finish the game?
I took a break to focus on horror games during Oct, but we'll be starting FE again soon. :D
"The Mime King." Someone get the clown.
*Cicero crashes through your door*
Now i see what pyramid head represents. Quite the labor of a suffering mind. That could authorize anything in that age of thinking
Confusing
Awesome
I saw it late but good vid!
Amazing (from Brazil)
Can you please write a silent hill book lol you are amazing
Its funny you say that - I have! You can find them here: themusestore.bigcartel.com/
Please tell the music
Thank you very much!
@@gitansh1153 hey this may be a long shot but do you remember the song used thank you
Joseph?
You're reading into it. James already knew Maria wasn't Mary. He only questions it later on because Maria verbalized memories that only Mary could have. But it was soon after their first meeting that he realized Maria only looked like Mary, but wasn't her.
The door doesn't reference marriage. The rings go to the lady, not to James or Maria. The rings represent reincarnation. Maria dies so she can be reborn. James falls at the end because of his sin. His decent into darkness continues.
As for what Mary is trying to tell James in that instance, it is that James couldn't do anything to save Maria, just as he couldn't do anything to save her when she was alive. She's saying that it isn't his fault. However, Silent Hill is making James feel guilty about Maria, which leads to exploring his guilt over Mary. Thus his next stop is the Historical Society, where he delves into his guilt and anguish. That is his punishment phase, and he descends the stairs, seemingly bottomless, to confront his own darkness.
More!
Was it ever stated how long James and Mary were married before he "got rid" of her?
Synchronicity made me watch it.
When are angels ever considered "vicious/bloodthirsty" in the Bible?
They are warriors and judges who kill and fight in wars; from Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed by an angel, to the angel Samael's role in the story of Job, they are not as "angelic" as common culture portrays them.
@@thegamingmuse ah thank you I honestly did not remember that part but I totally get what you're saying!
I always took the poem of the Lady of the Door to have ties to Zoroastrianism. There view of judgment in the afterlife.
Angela was no angel,she killed her father and brother,only laura was an angel here.
Have you noticed children have been protected by Silent Hill itself after the origin story?
@@dreamstone00 right supposedly laura couldn't see any monsters because the town only haunts the corrupted but im not sure if that is 100% true.
Most of the times when somebody corrects another person on the internet it comes across as hostile, and it's not my intention. The pronunciation of Thanatos is wrong, It's THAnatos, not ThaNAtos
💜
That game should be remaked. Story 1:1 but with new gameplay (maybe like RE2MAKE)
Thanatos - a god of death. Yes, true, but rarely used in this capacity. Simply means "death" . Athanatos meaning "against death" , aka "immortal" . Interestingly, thanatos is almost always used in the capacity of describing death, instead of naming a god, while athanatos is almost always used as another way to name God the Father of greek Orthodox Christianity
"A scene that sounds more like judgement and damnation than a marriage ceremony"
Sounds like marriage to me, actually. :^)
Angels are not evoked in silent hill often?? Do you even Silent Hill bro? Samael... The Bridge... The thread... Devouring sin and sinner. Gods messenger of Justice. The rings symbolize the two overlapping worlds. Spider devouring the bloated corpse.
Samael
Metatron
Valtiel
Room of angel
Serpent
God the sun godess
Shepherd
Othiel
Hagith
Phaleg
Bethor
Cybil (The prophetess)
Doors and angels and bridges and strands are everywhere in silent hill. All of them.
Sinful Earth is the grey bloated corpse, the spider the Order ready to devour it sin and sinner alike.
the only angel who became bad is the devil but other angels noo they help us humens sometimes as a proof once i got stepped on by a car i was crossing the street and something pulled me to the other street i was saved ❤
Biblically angels are Heavens soldiers. Sure, they protect but they also strike down and kill on command, no questions asked.
It could ve easily been someone that already died there and didn't wanted the same to happen to you
If it was indeed an angel, it would only means that they play with humans, I mean, saving one but letting tons of kids being tortured and killed daily....it surely would make sense...
The spider ring and the repeated mentions of thread reminded me of a japanese story called "The Spider's Thread", the story is about kinda similar if compared side by side with the context of SH2. The story tells that a criminal in hell has been given a chance of salvation by the buddha by allowing a spider thread to go down and let the criminal climb up to heaven, however, when the criminal noticed that others started to climb, he kicked the others, stating that it was only his and not the other's salvation, in which point, the thread breaks and the criminal has fallen back due to his selfishness, it can be related to James' selfishness and lust that led to the death of Maria and his fall back in hell.