Love it! Thank you so much! So I use a carbon 120 barrel, RA roller head but a meandros handle with a reverse mech so I’m using a 170 7.5mm shaft. As this kind of goes between the two examples what band stretch would you recommend for it? Based on barrel or based on the shaft? Thanks again legend
Hey Sven Check out Italo Alemanni's latest post on reverse mechanisms. instagram.com/p/CMrPuEEogGS/ Reverse mechanisms are actually a disadvantage with roller guns. Italo says, "First I have to clarify how rollers,all rollers,work. We have a stroke (upper) and a pretensioning ( lower ). The pretensioning ,the rubber under the body, is the ones that give the trust. This measure is constrained by the length of the shaft. If you mount a reverse trigger, the shaft will be longer but also heavier, the pretension will be lower as much the trigger is backward and the residual kg in output will be lower if compare to the reverse trigger with the traditional trigger. The shaft will be shorter and lighter with a higher pretension and also the kg of the trust are highter if compared to the reverse trigger. Proposing on a roller system a backward release is not an added value but exactly a penalty." I would however measure the distance from the loading lugs on the handle, up and around the roller to the notch you load on. Divide that distance by 3.7. I would also try keep the 1.6m shaft if possible. Or you might have to go to a 7mm shaft.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing If to draw on graphic second line will be a little higher and on 5-7cm further. First line the same because pretention the same. It gives more power and maybe a little recoil. You can draw it on the next video. )
Agreed, but when you consider the longer shaft and extra weight its like moving the pretension forward on the gun. What would be more effective would be to simply move the notch back and keep the same shaft. Does that make sense?
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Ah you mean longer version of gun, but shorter undearneath part. But usually people use the same shaft by reason of balance. And usually reverse trigger made from metal and heavier and break a little balance so longer shaft make balance no acceptable. I use reverse "meandros" trigger because it better for my long fingers. I think RA handle for short fingers. And another good reason how trigger works when load 3-4 rubbers. No difference. On original trigger I fill difference between one and two rubbers. And you can move sharkfin almost at the end of shaft. it gives you more 10cm length in total (trigger give you 5-7cm) You can try this trigger. But they did small load pad on the last version (. www.spearfishingworld.com/meandros-conversion-trigger-mechanism-nitro-r2-for-rob-allen-vecta-2.html
btw All rollers is about more effective using length of barrel. But by using longer barrel and(or) reverse trigger can give you high effectiveness. Plus modern rubber with high coefficient. But need to compensate recoil. ) By form of handle for example. Thanks for video. I understood that need to start from 110cm roller with 7mm 14mm rubber.
Converted my 130 Tuna to 120 roller using your recommended rubber length, spear ect wow couldn't believe how accurate and powerful the gun is. Such an improvement. Thanks a lot for this video
Omg the 120 and 130 has arrived 😍. I am now on quarantine due to a positive Covid 19 test. I gonna grab a nice cold beer and popcorn and enjoy this fantastic series ! Chris you could easely charged money for this information, but you choose to share it freely with spearos worldwide. We thank you for that! You're great bro. 👍
I come from Southern California where many speros love to use 4-6 band on their heavy wood guns. You have to hold on for your life when firing one of these cannons. I love how simple and elegant Chris's roller guns are. I have a RA tuna 120 with MVD roller and 160cm drop barb, and that gun has incredible accuracy with almost no recoil. I use it 90% of the time (my other gun is 62 inch Koah double roller). Chris is absolutely right, if you're new to spearfishing, get yourself a 120 roller and don't look back.
Yea it amazes me the guys spearfishing in the US specifically use such insane weaponry. Southern Cali a std single roller for Sea Bass in the kelp and Yellow Tail will be amazing.
Thanks Chris. You sold me on roller guns years ago. I had two “Merlo” guns (72” & 48”) that I converted to double rollers long before rollers were known much less cool. I took a little shiot til I let a few guys try them out. Lost both guns in a shop fire. Built another 110 carbon roller …so far I love it.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing I have Carbonia inverted roller I use when I am diving in the deep. Its great for long shots but its like swimming with a connon. I have an Abellan that I like but I use the Carbonia more. I have a standard carbon gun that I put together with a menagerie of components I have used for shallower diving. I am ordering a Deamon Teak double roller 110 to try it. I hope that it fills a middle ground for me.
Thanks for this series Chris. I set up my 90, and 110 single rollers just as you recommend and really enjoy using them. I would really like you to do a similar video on a bluewater setup utilizing a double roller. i.e. 110 or 120 double roller? 14mm hand load, or 16mm load assist. Keen to hear you thoughts. Thanks again for sharing your roller knowledge with such high quality clearly explained videos.
Love you roller video series and you were able to address all my questions. I wanted to ask your opinion on a double band roller verses a single band given the same gun length. Pros / Cons
Thank you 😁 The double roller is easier to load and delivers more power. The cons on the double is mostly just the cost. But the 120 single roller is probably your best bang for your buck gun on the market. Still one of my all time favourite guns.
Hi Chris, love your work. It’s so informative. So do you think there is no reason to use a double roller on the 130? Would the gun just be overpowered?
Hey Will, great question. With a double roller using 2 14mm bands you can easily over power a std 1.7m 7.5mm shaft. In the beginning I was running the CDR's way too strong. What is working really well however is the twin hand loadable 14mm bands. Interestingly enough when I crunch the numbers the twin weak 14mm is still stronger than the single 18mm band. @williampescasub uses a 130 CDR with soft 14mms bands and has shot everything from big doggies to wahoo with great precision.
Hi Chris, love the videos! Thanks for putting them together. If you had to choose two length guns only would you rather a 1m and 1.2 or a 1.1 and 1.3? Or somthing else? Interested to know your thoughts.
Bentprop both are great. The 130 is very much a bluewater setup for larger prey. So if you have a fair amount of good clean water and are chasing Wahoo etc Then the 130 & 110 option is good. ....Alternatively the 1200 is a great all rounder that you can use for big and smaller prey. And if you do a fair amount of reef hunting then a 900-1000 is great. My personal preference is 120 for the bigger fish. And the light 110 setup for reef and smaller pelagics. I seldom find myself in low vis conditions these days where a 110 is too long. What are your conditions like?
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing I live in Western Australia and we have a wide variety of conditions. Water temps usually between 18°-26°. Most of the diving we are using 1.3-1.4 standard setups which is sometimes under gunned and more often overkill. We can roughly break down the diving to reef and pelagic diving. There is some overlap and exceptions to the rules but generally: “Reef diving” usually with visibility around 7-12m target fish 10-20kg. “Pelagic diving” in visibility 15-30m target fish 15-30kg.
This is such an amazing video! Thank you! I have to know one thing though if you would be so kind. For yellow fin tuna do you prefer just to use a flopper or a slip tip?
Senor Pescado, For Yellowfin I have actually prefered floppers in the past as slip tips reduce the penetration. Yellowfin hve thick tough skin and dont tear easily. Problem is that you bend shafts easily on big fish. The RA drop barb would be my next choice.
Great videos - cheers! Would you recommend against 14mm rubbers on a 120cm gun? I think I'd like to keep my 120 gun hand-loadable and not use an assist, so I'd use 14mm x 65cm rubbers. Would that work well or no? If feasible, could either a 7.0 or 7.5 shaft diameter work with this setup?
You might get a 7mm shaft to work. It will be accurate and will feel really good when pulling the trigger. You might find it will lack a little range and punch tho. The 7.5mm will be too heavy
hey Chris! I think that in your article, you recommend a 1300 with 18mm bands, which did you find to work better for a 7.5 shaft, 18mm or 16mm? thanks ;)
Hey Luis, 18mm rubbers at 75cm are definitely more powerful. But with almost 30kg load on the muzzle and 65kg load on the notch this is by no means an easy gun to load. The 16mm rubbers at 70cm have a comfortable (using load assist) 25kg at the muzzle and 55kg at the notch. This set up has more than enough power for a 7.5mm shaft.
Love your videos ! What do you think is the beat band set up for a 130 roller rob allen is the original band that come with them best? Also is there a difference between a 130 and 120 rob allen ?
Best setup for 130 RA single roller is 70cm (half barrel +5) 16mm using a load assist with a 7.5mm shaft. A 120 is just shorter that's all. Best setup for 120 RA single roller is 65cm (half barrel +5) 16mm using a load assist with a 7.5mm shaft.
I made an inverted 115 from a Picasso carbon Barrel I cut a little off the end with a mix of 16 and 18mm bands and I’ve shot every thing out there just my personal preference I like the inverted better than the roller I didn’t like the Rubber dangling after shooting Manny sub rubber 16/18mm /7.5m shift I use 6.5 or 7 m when hunting snappers and reefs
Hey Chris, Great vid as usual! I have a few questions 1.) when do you recommend using a cuttlefish barbell or additional ballast like that of a Pathos sniper roller? 2.) how do you like tor rig breakaways? 3.) I have watched your video on bungies and floats but what kind of all purpose float line do you recommend (vinyl/pvc/ski rope/etc..)
Hey Gunnar thats alot of 'BIG' questions in one go :-D Cuttlefish barrels are very helpful for buoyancy and enable thicker shafts. Problem is that none of the chinese / available barrels are any good for rollers. Spent the last few years and every cent getting a barrel right. Pathos ballast screws up your pretension so is pointless. Breakaway is a simple bungee cord.. will do a quick vid on that soon. cheap as chips and better than anything you can buy. Float lines is a huge .... and opinions vary vastly. Even my video on float lines is seriously outdated. Cant keep up ha ha
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Thanks for the quick response! Would it be a good idea to use the pathos ballast that does not have load hooks and anchor the bands the traditional way? Should still aid buoyancy without messing with pre-tension. Also, I cant wait for more videos, particularly on breakaway adaptors and float lines.
Don't mess with the pretension. I like the idea of the pathos ballast... and you can use the hooks to de power the gun easily. But the furthest loading point is too far forward...... they did not do their homework.
Hey Chris, awesome videos been loving this series. I’m looking for a blue water gun for Mozambique and Cape Town yellow tail but hope to shoot a few yellowfin and longfin off Cape Town a season. Would the 120 roller be sufficient for the off yellowfin or would a 130 be necessary. Shot Brad
Hey Bradley, I have heard of guys in CT using 120 single rollers for spearing YT. But its all about experience with YT and picking the right shot. The 130 will be better for YT but maybe a little long for the Tail, especially if the vis is low. Mozam the 130 is good, especially if you are coming from the Cape and not used to the clean water.
Hi Chris, thank you very much for these great videos! I had a question please: do you think it is possible to convert a traditional RA 140cm carbon railgun into a 130 roller? This would require cutting 10cm off the carbon barrel and adding a new roller muzzle as well as pretension pins on each side of the handle. I would have thought it is possible to do the cutting job neatly using a hacksaw blade and a mitre box, but I wanted to confirm that doesn’t risk compromising the integrity of the carbon, such as creating a risk the barrel might split/crack from the extremity which was cut. Do you any views/experience with this? Thanks
Hi Chris, your videos are great and super informative! One question: in your opinion, what is the thickest shaft a 130 double roller can effectively handle using 16mm rubbers? I have a wood/carbon hybrid that I am trying to set up. Obviously has added buoyancy due to wooden portion of the gun. Thanks for any help in advance!
Armando, 16mm rubbers on a double roller are very effective with an 8mm shaft. You might get away with an 8.5mm I have not tested the 8.5mm so cant really comment on how well it will work.
Not really. You will have to go down to a 7mm shaft which will make the gun better balanced in the water. Personally I prefer the 110 with this lighter setup, and the 120 for bigger game.
Hello from Brazil... I've been looking forward to the 120cm roller video. Your experiences with rollers have been of great help. Can I use the same 120cm configuration but with a double roller? Can you advise me how to set up my 120cm double roller? Apologies for my English, I'm just practicing.
I have different experience with distance. Usually in clear water fish looks closer and smaller. That's why i think better to use 8mm shaft with slip tip. But slip tip requires 20% more energy. I saw on Facebook you developed speargun for 8mm shaft (better if with slip tip) probably we will see it soon here on your channel.
Objects are supposed to look closer underwater. But in almost every situation when guys explain how far a shot was out the water they measure out distances that are completely unrealistic. And in some situations we have had footage to confirm that fact. Bottom line is we think we are taking longer shots than we really are. Film some shots from the side and see how many wraps come off when you hit the fish. You will be surprised.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing It's from experience hunting on Bali. Local people say the same. It's like you shoot 10kg fish when you bring close wow it's bigger then thought from begin, around 18kg. Or shoot fish maybe 100cm length from first estimate and later when shaft in a fish see that shaft 180cm not so much longer then fish and 2 buoys go down. And the same with distance. You think fish is close, but when you shoot shaft goes under it and was bigger. I think it happens when water very clean and it's difficult understand distance.
Hi Chris - I just bought my first roller today, RA Snapper factory fitted with 14mm rubber and 7mm shaft. I measure the rubber at 80cm - do you have any idea why Rob makes them so much longer that your suggested 65cm? (the 120cm 16mm/7.5mm Tuna Roller also has 80cm rubber from the factory). My gun came with seperate load assist as well as the extra bridle for hand loading - you you think they make the rubbers so long for easy hand loading? I'm happy to use load assist for more power - goes I'll have to shorten rubbers by 15cm. Just wish I understand why Rob ships them so long (I did write them but never heard back) Cheers Bevan
@ Bvn Dwr What length Snapper gun is that? 120? What color are the bands aswell? On the 120 with the 16mm bands, if they are blue bands then go half barrel plus 5cm and use a load assist shooting a 7.5mm shaft. If it has black bands add 5cm to 70cm as the black bands are harder than the blue ones.
Awesome vid! I also shoot a 120cm rob allen roller. Have you been having any issues with your shooting line getting stuck in the rubbers' wishbone line after retying bands? It's been happening a lot with mine. Take care
Hey Spunjah, The RA muzzle prefers dyneema over mono. So if you are using mono. Switch to dyneema. If you are already using dyneema and having an issue. It is most likely to be loose shooting line causing that problem. Make sure shooting line is always very tight. And you will have no more problems. 🤙
Thanks for the excellent tech info over rollers, is always hard to get proper info about tch specs...I got addicted to rollers and made already a few, 1,00 m / 16 mm Rob Allen / 6,75 shaft - 1,15 m / 16 mm Riffe / 7 mm shaft and now I decide and made a double 1,20 m / 14 mm Riffe / 7,5 mm shaft, all teak wood with my trigger mechanism design. Did not shoot it yet, but main question: The rubber ratio should be adapted from 16 mm / 7 mm shaft to double 14 mm / 7,5 mm shaft?
Hi Chris, when you mention the 130 being even better balanced than the 120 with 7.5mm shaft does that mean the 120 is noticeably tip heavy? Trying to decide whether my next roller is a 120 or 130. Cheers
Fish Hunter, Yes with the std Rob Allen muzzle the 130 handles the weight better. But this video is old and now with the light CSR muzzle. (50g lighter) it really does not make any difference. Drop me an email saltydiver@gmail.com Its more about what you need the gun to do that's more important.
Hey legend, thanks for all you do I have a 120 Aluminum RA so going I'm with 7mm shaft and premade RA green rubbers. Not sure if I should get 14mm or 16mm any thoughts?
Hi Chris, Could youd please explaine me how does you make your cuttlefish floater and witch material do you use ? It's a pitty that Rob Allen does not offer a floater just like the Pathos one, and also the colered handel grip is not anatomical with thump support. I think that our RA spearguns would gain more buoyancy and balance in water with these adaptation.
Hey Ary The barrel I make is molded in a double enclave molding machine. It is a fairly complex and expensive process. Because the function of the added buoyancy pod like the Pathos does not work well for rollerguns. Rob Allen are developing a carbon barrel that has additional buoyancy that is specifically designed for rollerguns. This is going to be a game changer in the marketplace. On the grips, anatomical grips have two issues. One they don't suit everyone. And secondly and why I don't like them. Is that you can not hold the gun upside down comfortably when spearfishing. It is important to be able to do this draw back your speargun and conceal it while hunting. If it is anatomical it hinders your action when extending the gun out to shoot. If it were that much better RA would have already offered them as an add on.
Hi Chris thanks for your explanation! I will definitely buy this RA special Roller barrel when they come out. Any idea when idea Mr. Rob Allen will realise them in the market?
Hi Chris thank you very for answering all my question, I do appreciated a lot! I was curious about your double roller muzzle. Is it still available? Are you going to make a video about it regarding the setup and different speargun sizes ? I do prefer the simplicity of your double roller mazzel than a inverted system. Thanks a million.
Hey Ary The Double roller is available as well as complete CDR Step Up guns. Muzzles are available on the website coatesmans.com and for guns email me on saltydiver@gmail.com I want to do a video on double rollers. But I am worried I will not keep supply up if I market them.
Nice! I got a question sir, planning to build a 120 cm single roller and I already have a rubber 14mm×1.5id and a 7×160 shafting. Is this gonna work? Can u tell me whats the exact formula for this.. I really need ur advice. Thank you
What about usig aluminium barrel with shorter shaft? 120cm barrel and 7.5mm 150cm shaft. I see you don't like small id bands. I like them they work very good. Primeline reactive 14.5mm small id. 3x350% works good on bleutec 145 with 180cm 8mm shaft.
That will reduce the weight to almost the same as the 7mm, but most guys are used to the same length overhang on the gun. But the increased thickness has increased drag so you will need to ramp up to 16mm bands anyway. Keep it simple. Forget small ID bands, when you work out the area of the rubber less the size of the ID hole you realise that the difference is no where near as much as changing the outer diameter. Small ID just make inserting wishbones more difficult. That said large bore are are also crap, I need to do a whole video just on this. For me it has been easier to rather work with the consistency of good quality std bore rubber that is available world wide. At the end of the day it is the energy you are loading into the gun that matters. You can get the exact same performance out of the small ID as std ID it is the volume of rubber that is holding the energy.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing to be honest I thought small id band were done to less drag resistence of rubber when it moves and it makes it a little more effective. Yes. putting wishbone inside it's difficult without experience. I thought it's not possible from begin. )
Hi, love your roller video serie ! I've set up my 105 according to your video( 14mm 7shaft )and it's great really great! But I have an other 105 with good buoyancy wich I'd like to set up heavier, what do think of 10cm shorter shaft in 8mm , this is 30 40g heavier but since 7.5mm has less flex and is more accurate than 7mm , Is 8mm better than 7.5mm ? 16mm bands has enough power for those extra 40g ? Thanks
Tristan, The 7.5mm will definitely work well with 16mm bands. This has been tried and tested. The shorter 8mm should also work well especially if you power up the 16mm bands to 380-400% The 8mm will be slower but should have better penetration, especially with closer targets.
What is the difference between single & double roller in terms of ( power , accuaracy & distance shooting ) ? Does the double roller has more range in distance shooting and less recoil ?
MAQ93 its easier to put more power into a double roller, so you can have more power than a single roller. How that translates into range and accuracy will depend on the gun and setup. What fish are you hunting and what length gun are you looking at?
Andy, Is it a cuttlefish shaped barrel or regular RA carbon barrel? If std RA carbon barrel, definitely cut it down. You will need to find someone who can plug the barrel for you tho.
Howz it Chris? Do you run a single wrap or a double? Interesting about the range of most shots you are talking about. I presume it would be better to just use a single wrap with that being said.
Hey Matt Always double wrap. Not so you can shoot twice as far. When you have a single wrap as you get to the end of the wrap and line starts to tighten it deflects the back of the shaft causing the shaft to "shotgun" So the double wrap is there so there is no resistance at full wrap range. Then there also times.... when just for fun you will take a ridiculous shot way past single wrap .... just because you can :-)
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing with that being said, for Bluewater fish, like tuna, couldn't you just aim slightly ahead on longer shots? And I guess in general, you would never do more than 2 wraps, even for a 170 traditional gun or a 130 double roller?
Aiming ahead is guessing, and you are basically taking 'Luck Shots' With tuna they are normally moving at speed, so you not only have to hit them at that distance. But your shaft has to be hitting with enough power to get through them. I have seen too many guys blow a good fish doing this, your landing ratio is very low and all you do is eliminate any possibilities of a better shot later on the drift.
Hey Avith, A series on double rollers is in the pipeline. Its just such a big subject it needs needs more than a few videos. On my CDR a 170cm shaft is good on a 130cm barrel, and if you are going to use an 8mm then you will need 16mm bands to drive it. I have not made 140cm guns but some guys have used the CDR muzzles on 140cm with success. The reality is that unless you are doing something extreme you don't need anything more than a 130. This is because the practical range of shooting a fish is no more than 5m from the end of the gun. Even in Bluewater cases. Anything further than 5m and the place you aim on the fish is not where the shaft will land, the fish is moving and so your shot will not be accurate. Many guys think they shoot further, but in reality if you look at footage you will find that 90% of shots are taken around single wrap range. (visible by how many wraps are used when the shaft hits the fish)
With rollerguns you generally need to go to double wrap. They are shorter than conventional guns so often a single is just a little short. There is more to this subject & I will need to do a video on why I always go for a double wrap on rollers.
What do you think about using ypsilon(Y) form bands on roller? I saw it several years ago. 16-18mm band with dyneema inside on top and 2 thinner band 14-16mm down side. I think it's much easier to load then with assist. 16mm top and 2x14mm down is more convenient for rief hunting.
I think the right term is 'multiplier' All the magic of a roller happens on the bands on the underside of the roller. This definitely works, just a little more complicated. I have made some killer custom guns with this application for specific tasks. The question is do you really need more than a well setup basic roller setup for 90% of spearfishing? I don't think so... Rollers already far exceed anything we were using 10 or more years ago and continue to have exceptional results. Most good / seasoned spearfisherman land up reducing their gun size and rubber setups anyway.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Thank you. I think now that I would have two setups: 1. simply roller 110 with 7mm shaft and 2. 18mm on top or 16mm with dyneema inside and 2x14mm down. Need to calculate and think about second setup and buy 2 roller heads. ) And maybe third setup with wooden wings on a barrel. 20mm (350-380%) on top and 3x14mm down for 8mm shaft . But needed special roller head that fit to 20 mm rubber.
Most experienced roller tech guys go with 14mm on top with line + 2 x 16mm or 2 x 14mm underneath. Much easier to just get a 130 or 120? maybe even a simple double roller?
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Understood. I have good experience with classic scheme. It's 180cm 7.5mm RA shaft, 145-150cm RA barrel and 2x14.5 small id 350%. This setup works good even with 8mm shaft with 2x14.5 small id 380% , but required wooden wings for heavier shaft. It's a little bit long and wide for current. I think about shorter version. There are wooden inverters for 8.5mm 160cm shaft. I think they are wide. Probably double roller is the best option. Or maybe custom carbon barrel for 8mm shaft and double roller or Ypsilon scheme with 2x16cm underneath. Thank you.
Do small ID bands make any significant difference? E.g., instead of a 16mm band, would I be able to use 15mm small ID bands that provide a similar amount of power, while also being easier to load?
great video Chris, ı have a 120 RA single roller, using it with 160cm 7 mm shaft and 65cm 14 mm bands.. easy to load and shot a 22kg yellow fin through the other day.. your advise would be appreciated i.e 150cm shaft? 16mm bands with 7,5 shaft etc??
That 7mm/14mm band setup is like the light setup I like on the 110. Will shoot really smooth 👌 I have guys using this setup on Ali barrels and loving it. If you have a carbon barrel and want more out of the gun try the 16mm band at 65cm / 7.5mm shaft at1.6m using a load assist. Keep the shaft std length so you don't have any aiming issues.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing thanks for the quick reply. I was just inquiring, I have a rob allen carbo 120 which comes with a 6.6 shaft with 14 mm bands from the factory. Wanted to see your thoughts on it. Thanks a lot
How can the length of rubber be the same for different thinknesses? And some roller heads say they can use 12mm rubber. Has anyone tried this? Thanks for the videos they have been great.
Is there anyway to apply this to Guns that need a bridal? Would making sure you’re at 25kgs at the notch and 55kg loaded be the best bet on a close to perfect setup?
Full Send, by bridle do you mean hand load? 25-55kg is what a 16mm delivers when full pretensioned properly and fully loaded at 360% You should not be hand loading guns with 16mm bands unless you are really strong.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Aloha, I mean bridal for the bands. Used on guns that you can’t put lugs to hold the bands back by the handle. So my bands come down the bottom of the barrel then needs a dyneema bridal to come down behind the reel and back up the other side.
Ok got you. Keep that bridal on the underside rubbers as short as possible so that they are as far back on the gun as possible. The magic on rollers happens on the rubbers underneath the gun. if they are too far in front of the notch / fins where you load you will lose effectiveness.
I bought an RA 1100 Tuna roller railgun in aluminum before knowing about the buoyancy issues vs carbon. Can you not just slightly lift the gun from underneath by putting your finger or thumb between the bungees bands? They are just going to contract when you shoot? Or even put a thin vertical handle grip underneath between the bands? Has anyone done this? That would probably improve my accuracy imho.
Hey Alan, neither will work as you need to extend out your arm to lock your elbow when shooting. Having a handle or supporting with your other hand will mean you will have to bend your arm, and that’s not good.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Thanks for that good advice. It saved me from experimenting with adding a vertical handle between the lower bands to hold it like an AK underwater 😅. Alternatively, could some buoyancy be added in some way to the front of the gun to offset that sinking feeling? Or do you have a 900 Wahoo carbon roller rail gun I could trade?
Hey Julian, I am really not a fan of Kicker bands on rollerguns, they only add recoil. Might as well just have a conventional gun. I should have covered this in one of the episodes. (will have to when I do the inverted rollers anyway) They are however necessary on inverted rollers to help get the shaft up to speed. Even then you will see good inverted rollers only have a small kicker. So they are completely unnecessary / counter productive on std rollerguns. It does amaze me that some manufactures are still bringing out std rollerguns with them.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing I agree completely, with my 120 single 7.5mm i can comfortably shoot wahoo 5m away so no need but for the standard inverter rollers i understand the concept and function of the pulley but still the travel distance of the rubbers is so much shorter so i get the use of a kicker to help it along.
Its just the weight of the gun. The 7mm is lighter so the whole gun will feel / handle better in the water. But I like using 7.5mm shafts on 120s & 130s
Hey Full Send, Yes you can use a 14mm hand load and 7mm shaft setup. The shot will be really smooth and accurate, but will lack a bit of penetration & range. Not really an issue if not targeting big fish. Make the rubbers as short as you can without making it too difficult to load. this way you will optimise the setup. It will be a really great gun to shoot.
Hi Chris, veel liefs uit Australië, I am utilising a 110 barrel with standard (18mm) rubber config. (Though maxed without flex of 7mm shaft. For yellow tail would it be worth aspiring to Dillon914’s set up as above? (Roller/120barrel/7mm shaft/14mm handload)? Or is this splitting hairs?
Love it! Thank you so much!
So I use a carbon 120 barrel, RA roller head but a meandros handle with a reverse mech so I’m using a 170 7.5mm shaft. As this kind of goes between the two examples what band stretch would you recommend for it? Based on barrel or based on the shaft?
Thanks again legend
Hey Sven
Check out Italo Alemanni's latest post on reverse mechanisms.
instagram.com/p/CMrPuEEogGS/
Reverse mechanisms are actually a disadvantage with roller guns.
Italo says, "First I have to clarify how rollers,all rollers,work.
We have a stroke (upper) and a pretensioning ( lower ).
The pretensioning ,the rubber under the body, is the ones that give the trust. This measure is constrained by the length of the shaft.
If you mount a reverse trigger, the shaft will be longer but also heavier, the pretension will be lower as much the trigger is backward and the residual kg in output will be lower if compare to the reverse trigger with the traditional trigger. The shaft will be shorter and lighter with a higher pretension and also the kg of the trust are highter if compared to the reverse trigger.
Proposing on a roller system a backward release is not an added value but exactly a penalty."
I would however measure the distance from the loading lugs on the handle, up and around the roller to the notch you load on. Divide that distance by 3.7. I would also try keep the 1.6m shaft if possible. Or you might have to go to a 7mm shaft.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing If to draw on graphic second line will be a little higher and on 5-7cm further. First line the same because pretention the same. It gives more power and maybe a little recoil. You can draw it on the next video. )
Agreed, but when you consider the longer shaft and extra weight its like moving the pretension forward on the gun. What would be more effective would be to simply move the notch back and keep the same shaft. Does that make sense?
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Ah you mean longer version of gun, but shorter undearneath part.
But usually people use the same shaft by reason of balance. And usually reverse trigger made from metal and heavier and break a little balance so longer shaft make balance no acceptable. I use reverse "meandros" trigger because it better for my long fingers. I think RA handle for short fingers. And another good reason how trigger works when load 3-4 rubbers. No difference. On original trigger I fill difference between one and two rubbers. And you can move sharkfin almost at the end of shaft. it gives you more 10cm length in total (trigger give you 5-7cm) You can try this trigger. But they did small load pad on the last version (. www.spearfishingworld.com/meandros-conversion-trigger-mechanism-nitro-r2-for-rob-allen-vecta-2.html
btw All rollers is about more effective using length of barrel. But by using longer barrel and(or) reverse trigger can give you high effectiveness. Plus modern rubber with high coefficient. But need to compensate recoil. ) By form of handle for example.
Thanks for video. I understood that need to start from 110cm roller with 7mm 14mm rubber.
Converted my 130 Tuna to 120 roller using your recommended rubber length, spear ect wow couldn't believe how accurate and powerful the gun is. Such an improvement. Thanks a lot for this video
Brilliant 🙌
Hello how much did you cut the barrel to ???
Omg the 120 and 130 has arrived 😍. I am now on quarantine due to a positive Covid 19 test.
I gonna grab a nice cold beer and popcorn and enjoy this fantastic series !
Chris you could easely charged money for this information, but you choose to share it freely with spearos worldwide. We thank you for that! You're great bro. 👍
Thanks for that, I hope you enjoy :-)
This unrolling the roller serise is unbelievable. Thanks for sharing ypur knowledge Chris
Really like this series! So helpful and informative, especially for gear geeks! Thanks for the effort you put into them.
a video on muzzle wraps someday would be great..these videos on rollers are priceless man...thank you
I come from Southern California where many speros love to use 4-6 band on their heavy wood guns. You have to hold on for your life when firing one of these cannons. I love how simple and elegant Chris's roller guns are. I have a RA tuna 120 with MVD roller and 160cm drop barb, and that gun has incredible accuracy with almost no recoil. I use it 90% of the time (my other gun is 62 inch Koah double roller). Chris is absolutely right, if you're new to spearfishing, get yourself a 120 roller and don't look back.
Yea it amazes me the guys spearfishing in the US specifically use such insane weaponry. Southern Cali a std single roller for Sea Bass in the kelp and Yellow Tail will be amazing.
You are a great person who teach others I am in Jamaica and I love your videos
Beautifully explained, makes me love my 120 roller even more now! keep doing what you do man!
Thanks Chris. You sold me on roller guns years ago. I had two “Merlo” guns (72” & 48”) that I converted to double rollers long before rollers were known much less cool. I took a little shiot til I let a few guys try them out. Lost both guns in a shop fire. Built another 110 carbon roller …so far I love it.
I dont hunt with the guns you have featured but the knowledge you have shared is invaluable! Thanks so much!
Hey Andrew what guns are you using?
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing I have Carbonia inverted roller I use when I am diving in the deep. Its great for long shots but its like swimming with a connon. I have an Abellan that I like but I use the Carbonia more. I have a standard carbon gun that I put together with a menagerie of components I have used for shallower diving. I am ordering a Deamon Teak double roller 110 to try it. I hope that it fills a middle ground for me.
The Deamon double roller sounds awesome 👌
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing I hope so. Thanks!
I am in Hawaii an everything we use has got to have some range!
I love all you videos specially hunting Tunis and barracudas I hope you make new ones I like to see them
Hi Chris. Like everyone else, I've really been enjoying this series. Will you also be doing videos on inverted roller setups?
Great explanation as always - keep it going brother! All the best 😎🤙🏽🌺🐟💦
Thanks for this series Chris. I set up my 90, and 110 single rollers just as you recommend and really enjoy using them. I would really like you to do a similar video on a bluewater setup utilizing a double roller. i.e. 110 or 120 double roller? 14mm hand load, or 16mm load assist. Keen to hear you thoughts. Thanks again for sharing your roller knowledge with such high quality clearly explained videos.
Thats a big topic and one I do need to get onto. Definitely videos I will cover.
Also interested in the double roller
I just got my 120cm roller more videos pls 😀😀😀
Wow awesome power& accuracyof speargun
Respect for so much effort in this excellent videos. Very helpful. Waiting for some video on inverted dyneema rollers
Will get there. Inverted's are crazy guns but need to be set up well.
Yes would live to see videos on inverted roller set ups and science behind inverted
Amazing video...love this series so much💪
Excellent stuff coming form years of experience. Much appreciated.
We’ll explain Thanks Chris.
Thanks for all the great info
Any time!
Great stuff Chris!
Thanks for the advice on 120 roller,from the fiji Islands
Rafael, no problem. The 120 will be great in the clear water there.
Great video as usual Chris. Really enjoying your vids
So much good information! Thanks Chris
Great video post!!
Love you roller video series and you were able to address all my questions. I wanted to ask your opinion on a double band roller verses a single band given the same gun length. Pros / Cons
Thank you 😁
The double roller is easier to load and delivers more power. The cons on the double is mostly just the cost. But the 120 single roller is probably your best bang for your buck gun on the market. Still one of my all time favourite guns.
I'm looking forward to seing that video on those acute angle shots
Coming soon! 🤙
Can you do a video on band setups for rollerguns?
14-18mm and different lengths etc, with pro’s and con’s
Hey Mitch, I do cover band set ups in each individual gun size.
What gun do you need a set up for?
Hi Chris, love your work. It’s so informative. So do you think there is no reason to use a double roller on the 130? Would the gun just be overpowered?
Hey Will, great question. With a double roller using 2 14mm bands you can easily over power a std 1.7m 7.5mm shaft. In the beginning I was running the CDR's way too strong. What is working really well however is the twin hand loadable 14mm bands. Interestingly enough when I crunch the numbers the twin weak 14mm is still stronger than the single 18mm band.
@williampescasub uses a 130 CDR with soft 14mms bands and has shot everything from big doggies to wahoo with great precision.
Hi Chris, love the videos! Thanks for putting them together.
If you had to choose two length guns only would you rather a 1m and 1.2 or a 1.1 and 1.3? Or somthing else? Interested to know your thoughts.
Bentprop both are great. The 130 is very much a bluewater setup for larger prey. So if you have a fair amount of good clean water and are chasing Wahoo etc Then the 130 & 110 option is good.
....Alternatively the 1200 is a great all rounder that you can use for big and smaller prey. And if you do a fair amount of reef hunting then a 900-1000 is great.
My personal preference is 120 for the bigger fish. And the light 110 setup for reef and smaller pelagics.
I seldom find myself in low vis conditions these days where a 110 is too long.
What are your conditions like?
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing I live in Western Australia and we have a wide variety of conditions. Water temps usually between 18°-26°. Most of the diving we are using 1.3-1.4 standard setups which is sometimes under gunned and more often overkill.
We can roughly break down the diving to reef and pelagic diving. There is some overlap and exceptions to the rules but generally:
“Reef diving” usually with visibility around 7-12m target fish 10-20kg. “Pelagic diving” in visibility 15-30m target fish 15-30kg.
This is such an amazing video! Thank you! I have to know one thing though if you would be so kind.
For yellow fin tuna do you prefer just to use a flopper or a slip tip?
Senor Pescado,
For Yellowfin I have actually prefered floppers in the past as slip tips reduce the penetration. Yellowfin hve thick tough skin and dont tear easily. Problem is that you bend shafts easily on big fish.
The RA drop barb would be my next choice.
Great videos - cheers! Would you recommend against 14mm rubbers on a 120cm gun? I think I'd like to keep my 120 gun hand-loadable and not use an assist, so I'd use 14mm x 65cm rubbers. Would that work well or no? If feasible, could either a 7.0 or 7.5 shaft diameter work with this setup?
You might get a 7mm shaft to work. It will be accurate and will feel really good when pulling the trigger. You might find it will lack a little range and punch tho.
The 7.5mm will be too heavy
hey Chris! I think that in your article, you recommend a 1300 with 18mm bands, which did you find to work better for a 7.5 shaft, 18mm or 16mm? thanks ;)
Hey Luis,
18mm rubbers at 75cm are definitely more powerful. But with almost 30kg load on the muzzle and 65kg load on the notch this is by no means an easy gun to load.
The 16mm rubbers at 70cm have a comfortable (using load assist) 25kg at the muzzle and 55kg at the notch. This set up has more than enough power for a 7.5mm shaft.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Thanks a lot Chris!
Love your videos ! What do you think is the beat band set up for a 130 roller rob allen is the original band that come with them best? Also is there a difference between a 130 and 120 rob allen ?
Best setup for 130 RA single roller is 70cm (half barrel +5) 16mm using a load assist with a 7.5mm shaft.
A 120 is just shorter that's all.
Best setup for 120 RA single roller is 65cm (half barrel +5) 16mm using a load assist with a 7.5mm shaft.
Please do a video with regards to what you would choose for a bluewater setup - 1300, double roller 16mm, 8mm shaft? carbon?
I have spent the last 18 months working on setups with 8mm shafts. Sneak peaks coming soon
I made an inverted 115 from a Picasso carbon Barrel I cut a little off the end with a mix of 16 and 18mm bands and I’ve shot every thing out there just my personal preference I like the inverted better than the roller I didn’t like the Rubber dangling after shooting
Manny sub rubber 16/18mm /7.5m shift
I use 6.5 or 7 m when hunting snappers and reefs
Hey Chris, Great vid as usual! I have a few questions 1.) when do you recommend using a cuttlefish barbell or additional ballast like that of a Pathos sniper roller? 2.) how do you like tor rig breakaways? 3.) I have watched your video on bungies and floats but what kind of all purpose float line do you recommend (vinyl/pvc/ski rope/etc..)
Hey Gunnar thats alot of 'BIG' questions in one go :-D
Cuttlefish barrels are very helpful for buoyancy and enable thicker shafts. Problem is that none of the chinese / available barrels are any good for rollers. Spent the last few years and every cent getting a barrel right.
Pathos ballast screws up your pretension so is pointless.
Breakaway is a simple bungee cord.. will do a quick vid on that soon. cheap as chips and better than anything you can buy.
Float lines is a huge .... and opinions vary vastly. Even my video on float lines is seriously outdated. Cant keep up ha ha
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Thanks for the quick response! Would it be a good idea to use the pathos ballast that does not have load hooks and anchor the bands the traditional way? Should still aid buoyancy without messing with pre-tension. Also, I cant wait for more videos, particularly on breakaway adaptors and float lines.
Don't mess with the pretension. I like the idea of the pathos ballast... and you can use the hooks to de power the gun easily. But the furthest loading point is too far forward...... they did not do their homework.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing have you used rjx hobby barrels just ordered a simple pipe carbon barrel they really boast quality and are not cheep
Hey Chris, awesome videos been loving this series.
I’m looking for a blue water gun for Mozambique and Cape Town yellow tail but hope to shoot a few yellowfin and longfin off Cape Town a season.
Would the 120 roller be sufficient for the off yellowfin or would a 130 be necessary.
Shot
Brad
Hey Bradley, I have heard of guys in CT using 120 single rollers for spearing YT. But its all about experience with YT and picking the right shot. The 130 will be better for YT but maybe a little long for the Tail, especially if the vis is low.
Mozam the 130 is good, especially if you are coming from the Cape and not used to the clean water.
Hi Chris, thank you very much for these great videos!
I had a question please: do you think it is possible to convert a traditional RA 140cm carbon railgun into a 130 roller? This would require cutting 10cm off the carbon barrel and adding a new roller muzzle as well as pretension pins on each side of the handle. I would have thought it is possible to do the cutting job neatly using a hacksaw blade and a mitre box, but I wanted to confirm that doesn’t risk compromising the integrity of the carbon, such as creating a risk the barrel might split/crack from the extremity which was cut. Do you any views/experience with this? Thanks
Jseb011 you wont compromise the barrel by cutting it. your issue is going to be re plugging the barrel afterwards to seal it off again.
Hi Chris, your videos are great and super informative! One question: in your opinion, what is the thickest shaft a 130 double roller can effectively handle using 16mm rubbers? I have a wood/carbon hybrid that I am trying to set up. Obviously has added buoyancy due to wooden portion of the gun. Thanks for any help in advance!
Armando,
16mm rubbers on a double roller are very effective with an 8mm shaft.
You might get away with an 8.5mm
I have not tested the 8.5mm so cant really comment on how well it will work.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing thanks for the input, Chris.
Except the ability of loading without loading assist , is there any advantages of using 14mm band instead of 16mm band ?
Not really. You will have to go down to a 7mm shaft which will make the gun better balanced in the water.
Personally I prefer the 110 with this lighter setup, and the 120 for bigger game.
Hello from Brazil...
I've been looking forward to the 120cm roller video. Your experiences with rollers have been of great help.
Can I use the same 120cm configuration but with a double roller?
Can you advise me how to set up my 120cm double roller?
Apologies for my English, I'm just practicing.
Valmir, for the double rollers you have so much power you dont have to push them too much. With a 7.5mm shaft 65cm 14mm rubbers are perfect.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Thanks .
I have different experience with distance. Usually in clear water fish looks closer and smaller.
That's why i think better to use 8mm shaft with slip tip. But slip tip requires 20% more energy. I saw on Facebook you developed speargun for 8mm shaft (better if with slip tip) probably we will see it soon here on your channel.
Objects are supposed to look closer underwater. But in almost every situation when guys explain how far a shot was out the water they measure out distances that are completely unrealistic. And in some situations we have had footage to confirm that fact. Bottom line is we think we are taking longer shots than we really are. Film some shots from the side and see how many wraps come off when you hit the fish. You will be surprised.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing It's from experience hunting on Bali. Local people say the same. It's like you shoot 10kg fish when you bring close wow it's bigger then thought from begin, around 18kg. Or shoot fish maybe 100cm length from first estimate and later when shaft in a fish see that shaft 180cm not so much longer then fish and 2 buoys go down. And the same with distance. You think fish is close, but when you shoot shaft goes under it and was bigger. I think it happens when water very clean and it's difficult understand distance.
Hi Chris - I just bought my first roller today, RA Snapper factory fitted with 14mm rubber and 7mm shaft. I measure the rubber at 80cm - do you have any idea why Rob makes them so much longer that your suggested 65cm? (the 120cm 16mm/7.5mm Tuna Roller also has 80cm rubber from the factory). My gun came with seperate load assist as well as the extra bridle for hand loading - you you think they make the rubbers so long for easy hand loading? I'm happy to use load assist for more power - goes I'll have to shorten rubbers by 15cm. Just wish I understand why Rob ships them so long (I did write them but never heard back)
Cheers Bevan
@ Bvn Dwr What length Snapper gun is that? 120?
What color are the bands aswell?
On the 120 with the 16mm bands, if they are blue bands then go half barrel plus 5cm and use a load assist shooting a 7.5mm shaft.
If it has black bands add 5cm to 70cm as the black bands are harder than the blue ones.
Awesome vid! I also shoot a 120cm rob allen roller. Have you been having any issues with your shooting line getting stuck in the rubbers' wishbone line after retying bands? It's been happening a lot with mine. Take care
Hey Spunjah,
The RA muzzle prefers dyneema over mono. So if you are using mono. Switch to dyneema. If you are already using dyneema and having an issue. It is most likely to be loose shooting line causing that problem. Make sure shooting line is always very tight. And you will have no more problems. 🤙
Thanks for the excellent tech info over rollers, is always hard to get proper info about tch specs...I got addicted to rollers and made already a few, 1,00 m / 16 mm Rob Allen / 6,75 shaft - 1,15 m / 16 mm Riffe / 7 mm shaft and now I decide and made a double 1,20 m / 14 mm Riffe / 7,5 mm shaft, all teak wood with my trigger mechanism design. Did not shoot it yet, but main question: The rubber ratio should be adapted from 16 mm / 7 mm shaft to double 14 mm / 7,5 mm shaft?
On the double roller if your pretension is right then you will not need to max out your rubbers and 340% is usually more than enough.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Noted and thanks for the help...Regards & keep safe
I have a 120 carbon roller, if I can load it, could I go down to 50cm bands or will that impact the accuracy?
Hi Chris, when you mention the 130 being even better balanced than the 120 with 7.5mm shaft does that mean the 120 is noticeably tip heavy? Trying to decide whether my next roller is a 120 or 130. Cheers
Fish Hunter, Yes with the std Rob Allen muzzle the 130 handles the weight better. But this video is old and now with the light CSR muzzle. (50g lighter) it really does not make any difference. Drop me an email saltydiver@gmail.com
Its more about what you need the gun to do that's more important.
Hey legend, thanks for all you do
I have a 120 Aluminum RA so going I'm with 7mm shaft and premade RA green rubbers. Not sure if I should get 14mm or 16mm any thoughts?
Go with 14mm if you have a 7mm shaft. No point in 16mm
Legend THANK YOU
Chris, when is the double roller video coming?
Hey Micheal, Yes I definitely need to get a video out. Just been so busy focusing on building the guns at the moment.
No problem Chris
Appreciate the great videos, they are a nice counterpoint to all of the bad Spearo information on RUclips.
Hi Chris, Could youd please explaine me how does you make your cuttlefish floater and witch material do you use ?
It's a pitty that Rob Allen does not offer a floater just like the Pathos one, and also the colered handel grip is not anatomical with thump support. I think that our RA spearguns would gain more buoyancy and balance in water with these adaptation.
Hey Ary
The barrel I make is molded in a double enclave molding machine. It is a fairly complex and expensive process.
Because the function of the added buoyancy pod like the Pathos does not work well for rollerguns. Rob Allen are developing a carbon barrel that has additional buoyancy that is specifically designed for rollerguns. This is going to be a game changer in the marketplace.
On the grips, anatomical grips have two issues. One they don't suit everyone. And secondly and why I don't like them. Is that you can not hold the gun upside down comfortably when spearfishing. It is important to be able to do this draw back your speargun and conceal it while hunting. If it is anatomical it hinders your action when extending the gun out to shoot. If it were that much better RA would have already offered them as an add on.
Hi Chris thanks for your explanation!
I will definitely buy this RA special Roller barrel when they come out. Any idea when idea Mr. Rob Allen will realise them in the market?
Soon, they are in the final testing phase now.
Hi Chris thank you very for answering all my question, I do appreciated a lot!
I was curious about your double roller muzzle. Is it still available? Are you going to make a video about it regarding the setup and different speargun sizes ?
I do prefer the simplicity of your double roller mazzel than a inverted system.
Thanks a million.
Hey Ary
The Double roller is available as well as complete CDR Step Up guns.
Muzzles are available on the website coatesmans.com and for guns email me on saltydiver@gmail.com
I want to do a video on double rollers. But I am worried I will not keep supply up if I market them.
I bought Cherokee fast speargun 120 into a double roller I'm hoping it works out for me do you have any good ideas for me
Keep it up 👍🏽
Nice! I got a question sir, planning to build a 120 cm single roller and I already have a rubber 14mm×1.5id and a 7×160 shafting. Is this gonna work? Can u tell me whats the exact formula for this.. I really need ur advice. Thank you
Hey John, 16mm bands would be better, but you can use 14mm bands because you are using a 7mm shaft.
I would cut the bands at 65cm
Hey chris what do you think about using a 7.5 mm shaft on my Rob Allen snapper roller , should i keep my 14mm bands on or go up to 16 mm ??
Hey Tom, The snapper roller uses an Ali barrel so will be heavy with a 7.5mm shaft.
The 7mm will be better suited and with only require 14mm bands.
Hi Chris - can I ask what length 7.5mm shaft you recommend for an aluminium 120 Rob Allen Tuna roller? Cheers
Hey Bvn
On a 120cm gun the ideal shaft length is 1.6m.
Thanks Chris. I was trying to see from your gun when you held it up, looked like only 10-20cm overhang but I’ll go with 30 then.
Hey Chris, I’ve got a Rob Allen Tuna 1400, can that be converted to a roller gun ? Thanks
I would cut it to 130 or 120. Better yet get a 130 or 120 carbon barrel 👌
What about usig aluminium barrel with shorter shaft? 120cm barrel and 7.5mm 150cm shaft.
I see you don't like small id bands. I like them they work very good. Primeline reactive 14.5mm small id. 3x350% works good on bleutec 145 with 180cm 8mm shaft.
That will reduce the weight to almost the same as the 7mm, but most guys are used to the same length overhang on the gun. But the increased thickness has increased drag so you will need to ramp up to 16mm bands anyway. Keep it simple.
Forget small ID bands, when you work out the area of the rubber less the size of the ID hole you realise that the difference is no where near as much as changing the outer diameter.
Small ID just make inserting wishbones more difficult.
That said large bore are are also crap, I need to do a whole video just on this.
For me it has been easier to rather work with the consistency of good quality std bore rubber that is available world wide. At the end of the day it is the energy you are loading into the gun that matters.
You can get the exact same performance out of the small ID as std ID it is the volume of rubber that is holding the energy.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing to be honest I thought small id band were done to less drag resistence of rubber when it moves and it makes it a little more effective. Yes. putting wishbone inside it's difficult without experience. I thought it's not possible from begin. )
Hi, love your roller video serie !
I've set up my 105 according to your video( 14mm 7shaft )and it's great really great! But I have an other 105 with good buoyancy wich I'd like to set up heavier, what do think of 10cm shorter shaft in 8mm , this is 30 40g heavier but since 7.5mm has less flex and is more accurate than 7mm , Is 8mm better than 7.5mm ? 16mm bands has enough power for those extra 40g ?
Thanks
Tristan,
The 7.5mm will definitely work well with 16mm bands. This has been tried and tested.
The shorter 8mm should also work well especially if you power up the 16mm bands to 380-400%
The 8mm will be slower but should have better penetration, especially with closer targets.
What is the difference between single & double roller in terms of ( power , accuaracy & distance shooting ) ? Does the double roller has more range in distance shooting and less recoil ?
MAQ93 its easier to put more power into a double roller, so you can have more power than a single roller. How that translates into range and accuracy will depend on the gun and setup.
What fish are you hunting and what length gun are you looking at?
Hi there , I have a RA Mamba 150, is it worth cutting it down to a 130 and turning into a roller or keep it a 150.
many thanks Andy
Andy,
Is it a cuttlefish shaped barrel or regular RA carbon barrel?
If std RA carbon barrel, definitely cut it down. You will need to find someone who can plug the barrel for you tho.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Hi Chris , it's the cuttle shape barrel.
Cheers Andy
Howz it Chris? Do you run a single wrap or a double? Interesting about the range of most shots you are talking about. I presume it would be better to just use a single wrap with that being said.
Hey Matt
Always double wrap. Not so you can shoot twice as far.
When you have a single wrap as you get to the end of the wrap and line starts to tighten it deflects the back of the shaft causing the shaft to "shotgun"
So the double wrap is there so there is no resistance at full wrap range.
Then there also times.... when just for fun you will take a ridiculous shot way past single wrap .... just because you can :-)
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing With a larger gun, like a 130 or an inverted roller, would you ever go to a triple wrap? Why or why not?
No. At that distance unless the fish is 100% stationary you will never hit it where you are aiming.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing with that being said, for Bluewater fish, like tuna, couldn't you just aim slightly ahead on longer shots? And I guess in general, you would never do more than 2 wraps, even for a 170 traditional gun or a 130 double roller?
Aiming ahead is guessing, and you are basically taking 'Luck Shots'
With tuna they are normally moving at speed, so you not only have to hit them at that distance. But your shaft has to be hitting with enough power to get through them. I have seen too many guys blow a good fish doing this, your landing ratio is very low and all you do is eliminate any possibilities of a better shot later on the drift.
I could use a thicker shaft in my shorter gunn?
may you make a video about double roller 130-140 cm please? , and will you recomend 8 mm shafts 170 cm for a double roller 140 cm whit 14 mm bands?
Hey Avith,
A series on double rollers is in the pipeline. Its just such a big subject it needs needs more than a few videos.
On my CDR a 170cm shaft is good on a 130cm barrel, and if you are going to use an 8mm then you will need 16mm bands to drive it.
I have not made 140cm guns but some guys have used the CDR muzzles on 140cm with success.
The reality is that unless you are doing something extreme you don't need anything more than a 130. This is because the practical range of shooting a fish is no more than 5m from the end of the gun. Even in Bluewater cases.
Anything further than 5m and the place you aim on the fish is not where the shaft will land, the fish is moving and so your shot will not be accurate.
Many guys think they shoot further, but in reality if you look at footage you will find that 90% of shots are taken around single wrap range. (visible by how many wraps are used when the shaft hits the fish)
So its better only single wrap on the speargun?
Good video thank u !
With rollerguns you generally need to go to double wrap.
They are shorter than conventional guns so often a single is just a little short. There is more to this subject & I will need to do a video on why I always go for a double wrap on rollers.
What do you think about using ypsilon(Y) form bands on roller? I saw it several years ago. 16-18mm band with dyneema inside on top and 2 thinner band 14-16mm down side. I think it's much easier to load then with assist. 16mm top and 2x14mm down is more convenient for rief hunting.
I think the right term is 'multiplier'
All the magic of a roller happens on the bands on the underside of the roller. This definitely works, just a little more complicated. I have made some killer custom guns with this application for specific tasks.
The question is do you really need more than a well setup basic roller setup for 90% of spearfishing? I don't think so...
Rollers already far exceed anything we were using 10 or more years ago and continue to have exceptional results. Most good / seasoned spearfisherman land up reducing their gun size and rubber setups anyway.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Thank you. I think now that I would have two setups: 1. simply roller 110 with 7mm shaft and 2. 18mm on top or 16mm with dyneema inside and 2x14mm down. Need to calculate and think about second setup and buy 2 roller heads. ) And maybe third setup with wooden wings on a barrel. 20mm (350-380%) on top and 3x14mm down for 8mm shaft . But needed special roller head that fit to 20 mm rubber.
Most experienced roller tech guys go with 14mm on top with line + 2 x 16mm or 2 x 14mm underneath.
Much easier to just get a 130 or 120? maybe even a simple double roller?
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Understood. I have good experience with classic scheme. It's 180cm 7.5mm RA shaft, 145-150cm RA barrel and 2x14.5 small id 350%. This setup works good even with 8mm shaft with 2x14.5 small id 380% , but required wooden wings for heavier shaft. It's a little bit long and wide for current. I think about shorter version. There are wooden inverters for 8.5mm 160cm shaft. I think they are wide. Probably double roller is the best option. Or maybe custom carbon barrel for 8mm shaft and double roller or Ypsilon scheme with 2x16cm underneath. Thank you.
Do small ID bands make any significant difference? E.g., instead of a 16mm band, would I be able to use 15mm small ID bands that provide a similar amount of power, while also being easier to load?
Forget small ID bands, will have to do a video on this soon.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing hmm, love your videos and that'll be a good one since I feel like there's been a lot of hype about small id bands!
great video Chris, ı have a 120 RA single roller, using it with 160cm 7 mm shaft and 65cm 14 mm bands.. easy to load and shot a 22kg yellow fin through the other day.. your advise would be appreciated i.e 150cm shaft? 16mm bands with 7,5 shaft etc??
That 7mm/14mm band setup is like the light setup I like on the 110. Will shoot really smooth 👌
I have guys using this setup on Ali barrels and loving it.
If you have a carbon barrel and want more out of the gun try the 16mm band at 65cm / 7.5mm shaft at1.6m using a load assist.
Keep the shaft std length so you don't have any aiming issues.
Hey Chris, how or where do you reccomend to carry the load assist? Eg. On weight belt or clipped to gun etc?
Check out ruclips.net/video/wiXNMpGrCf4/видео.html I show some options there.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing thank you
Master !!
Do you have small gun for 5kls
what are your thoughts on using a shorter shaft with less overhang to minimise whip?
On rollerguns this is key. The shorter the better and if shorter means you can go thicker, then double whammy.
Do you think a 120 roller would work with a 6.6 mm shaft paired with 14 mm bands?
I would try a 7mm shaft first. But if you did go 6.6mm maybe go with a 1.5m shaft. Not something I have tried.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing thanks for the quick reply. I was just inquiring, I have a rob allen carbo 120 which comes with a 6.6 shaft with 14 mm bands from the factory. Wanted to see your thoughts on it. Thanks a lot
That is a very unusual setup. Was that a 120 roller from the RA factory? Or was that from a shop?
Where are you based?
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing no sir regular railgun sorry
How can the length of rubber be the same for different thinknesses? And some roller heads say they can use 12mm rubber. Has anyone tried this? Thanks for the videos they have been great.
On single rollers generally 14mm rubbers are paired with 7mm shafts & 16mm rubbers with 7.5mm shafts.
Have you ever set up a double roller 120 speargun
Hey Tim for the past 4 years my focus has pretty much been double rollers. Check my instagram page.
What is the diameter and the length of Ra roller 120?
Jomari,
Diameter & length? Of the barrel or shaft?
Is there anyway to apply this to Guns that need a bridal? Would making sure you’re at 25kgs at the notch and 55kg loaded be the best bet on a close to perfect setup?
Full Send, by bridle do you mean hand load?
25-55kg is what a 16mm delivers when full pretensioned properly and fully loaded at 360%
You should not be hand loading guns with 16mm bands unless you are really strong.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Aloha, I mean bridal for the bands. Used on guns that you can’t put lugs to hold the bands back by the handle. So my bands come down the bottom of the barrel then needs a dyneema bridal to come down behind the reel and back up the other side.
Ok got you. Keep that bridal on the underside rubbers as short as possible so that they are as far back on the gun as possible. The magic on rollers happens on the rubbers underneath the gun. if they are too far in front of the notch / fins where you load you will lose effectiveness.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing okay I’ll try and keep is as short as I can while matching the 25/55 kg. Thank you and I love the videos
I bought an RA 1100 Tuna roller railgun in aluminum before knowing about the buoyancy issues vs carbon. Can you not just slightly lift the gun from underneath by putting your finger or thumb between the bungees bands? They are just going to contract when you shoot? Or even put a thin vertical handle grip underneath between the bands? Has anyone done this? That would probably improve my accuracy imho.
Hey Alan, neither will work as you need to extend out your arm to lock your elbow when shooting. Having a handle or supporting with your other hand will mean you will have to bend your arm, and that’s not good.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing Thanks for that good advice. It saved me from experimenting with adding a vertical handle between the lower bands to hold it like an AK underwater 😅. Alternatively, could some buoyancy be added in some way to the front of the gun to offset that sinking feeling? Or do you have a 900 Wahoo carbon roller rail gun I could trade?
Hey chris whats your thoughts about 120 single with kicker band?
Hey Julian,
I am really not a fan of Kicker bands on rollerguns, they only add recoil. Might as well just have a conventional gun. I should have covered this in one of the episodes. (will have to when I do the inverted rollers anyway)
They are however necessary on inverted rollers to help get the shaft up to speed. Even then you will see good inverted rollers only have a small kicker.
So they are completely unnecessary / counter productive on std rollerguns. It does amaze me that some manufactures are still bringing out std rollerguns with them.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing I agree completely, with my 120 single 7.5mm i can comfortably shoot wahoo 5m away so no need but for the standard inverter rollers i understand the concept and function of the pulley but still the travel distance of the rubbers is so much shorter so i get the use of a kicker to help it along.
Hey Chris I have A120 inverted roller with no kicker. Would it be a wise move to just swap out the head for a single roller.
Wy is a 7mm schaft more balanced than a 7.5mm
Its just the weight of the gun. The 7mm is lighter so the whole gun will feel / handle better in the water. But I like using 7.5mm shafts on 120s & 130s
Can you setup the 120cm with 14mm bands and a 7mm shaft and have a hand load option?
Hey Full Send,
Yes you can use a 14mm hand load and 7mm shaft setup. The shot will be really smooth and accurate, but will lack a bit of penetration & range. Not really an issue if not targeting big fish. Make the rubbers as short as you can without making it too difficult to load. this way you will optimise the setup. It will be a really great gun to shoot.
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing awesome! I’m going to set one up to play with. Thank you very much
Hi Chris, veel liefs uit Australië, I am utilising a 110 barrel with standard (18mm) rubber config. (Though maxed without flex of 7mm shaft. For yellow tail would it be worth aspiring to Dillon914’s set up as above?
(Roller/120barrel/7mm shaft/14mm handload)?
Or is this splitting hairs?
Please, give me best formula shaft and lenght band for my gun single roller with 95cm barrel..
Use the half barrel + 5cm formula. = 52,5cm 👍
Is the half barrel length for the rubber?
And the +5cm for the dyneema wishbone?
@@moosashareef1673 thanks a lot, bro.. 🙏
@@CoatesmansSpearfishing thanks a lot, bro.. 🙏
Can I have one? Sir
😃👍
Howbmuch