I don't like Flaherty, a season or 2 ago he said he wanted to be paid and intended on hitting the free agent market. I just don't think he is all-star caliber player .
Its funny that the pitchers have a problem with WIllson when Jordan Montgomery has been the only pitcher worth a damn so far. Jack Flaherty should be one of the last ones to talk.
Heck, Jordan Montgomery threw to Gary Sanchez for many years when he was with the Yankees. He never complained and took accountability for his early struggles unlike some of his former rotation mates. Now the same is happening in St. Louis. You’re the pitcher, YOU throw the ball to home plate, not your catcher.
I agree. Flattery needs to go and for awhile now. I felt like Mikolas burned Conteras also. I'd of had a hard time accepting this as a player. At least to the viewers he's been an upright man and has taken a lot of crap. Bad management to let this happen!!
Personally im really disappointed in Contreras' abilities behind the plate. But not as disappointed as i am in our new minor league manager who hasnt figured out how to handle the big leagues yet. Flaherty has had a deva attitude since day one and hasn't done anything productive in years, unless we count crying about stuff on social media. Untill he does something well, id prefer it if he'd just shut up and pitch.
I was taught in high school that the pitcher controls the game. Every play in baseball starts with the pitcher. If the pitch call doesn't make sense to you as a pitcher, correct it. Call a timeout and sync up.
Gotta love AJ! As a Cards fan even, I still always loved watching him catch. It ain't Willson, it's the front office. That and the fact that spine in a manager is apparently a disqualifying condition for being in that role ....
I suggest people watch the condensed game of Contreras catching Flaherty in the Angels game in which Flaherty got torched. Many times Contreras would set up down and away or down and in and Flaherty missed toward the middle of the plate. IMO it's not the pitchers as a whole, more like one, (Flaherty) maybe two, that are using Contreras as a scapegoat.
Or a coach can just call it the “cardinal way”…this was a personal decision. Contreras isn’t liked by the pitchers. Yadi could be watching TV in a hammock from PR and calling it in to the battery, but he can’t make those pitchers execute
@@1162labringyou're right; "analytics" is causing a lot of losses; with the talent the Dodgers have had, T. Lasorta would have won 3 World Series, not just one like Dave Roberts and analytics won.
I grew up pitching and once had a coach tell me, "If you throw what the catcher calls and they hit it, it's your fault. If you shake off the catcher and they hit it, it's your fault."
Living in Chicago, I saw Contreras catch countless games for the Cubs. This was never an issue. The Cubs pitchers all took accountability for their pitch selection. Even the rookies.
he was defensive liability in Chicago by all objective measures, and the Cubs got immediately better this season with him gone, while the Cardinals immediately got worse; I think there is a clear connection; Cardinals are making the right decision to use him as DH.
@@rayrussell6258 Really? That’s crazy talk man. Nahhhhhh…..the Cubs signing those FA’s and their pitching staff finally showing some bloom on that rose since All Star break LAST YEAR in 2022 had nothing to do with it? Maybe because they have a team with some names fans outside of Wrigley I’ll would recognize? Maybe? So, like I’ve done for 3 years now, suck it up buttercup, and swallow your pride and admit YOU SUCK and go home. Come back tomorrow and try getting a W. FFS. Entitled a bit maybe? 🤏🏼
@@rayrussell6258 I’d say it’s a coincidence. Wilson was never an amazing defender but his arm was always great, say what you want about blocking and framing but it was never an ‘issue’ in Chicago. Cardinals pitching staff is horrendous and the Cubs have overall improved in many positions this year, you have to be delusional if you think signing Wilson Contreras would tank a roster. At worst he is as good as Yadi was last season.
@@willbarnhart8833 oh my, do you not know how to evaluate players, to say that Will. Even at 40, Yadi dared anyone to steal on him, and darned few were successful. Contreras might not have one runner thrown-out stealing this year. You say "at worst ... as good as Yadi"? Not even close. Contreras is so bad, he is too slow to even reach for pitches now, increasing wild pitch stats on our pitchers, it's not just framing and blocking, he even whiffed on a pitch right at him and had to go on IL for a contusion when the ball struck his knee, in the / after the home opener. It's no coincidence, I can't agree with you there, Contreras's defensive skills were never great but they deteriorated extensively with Cubs last year, and if he was so great the Cubs would have made a counter offer to keep him. They didn't. His defense sure was the issue (and also durability at the position), that's why they let him go, and with the great arm as you called it he threw out 25% of runners (low-middle rank among MLB catchers), while Yadi was 40% if I remember last season's stats. Contreras was on the IL at least three times last year, missed a lot of games. He is way past his prime as a catcher. The decision to use him as a DH looks good. I think it will even extend his career usefulness. As good as Yogi Berra was as a hitter and catcher, the Yankees moved him to left field when he got to Contreras's age. We gotta stop 2nd guessing the Cardinal's catcher decision, Kinzner has been hitting and plays better defense. Now, it's up to Mozeliak to balance the roster to bring in pitchers.
The Cardinals have turned into a circus. The "Cardinal way" which worked for a long time, hasn't evolved with the modern game. They're like a car stuck in the mud, the wheels are spinning but instead of putting something under the tires to fix it, they just floor the gas peddle.
Thank you, this is exactly what I have been saying. They pulled Wilson to put the sole owness on the pitching staff. Now it is 100% on them. Jack has an attitude problem and will end up in cali next year. Gfl jack being a b.
I realize the Cubs and Wilson went their separate ways because of difference of opinion regarding what role/how important the offense means [from the C position] to the FO moving forward. Willson’ s strengths are his bat. So technically it isn’t CRAZY to DH him. Saves knees etc….(think Posey). But the way they went to that move publicly was utter BS. Dude is an all star. Deserves better. I’m a Cubs fan. But that shouldn’t matter TBH.
The Cardinals starters can’t get through the order 3x without getting blown up. There is a bunch of pitchers in MLB getting blown up this year. I’m wondering if they can’t pitch well without the shift on.
@@rayrussell6258 Definitely a nonsensical hindrance. A 3-strikeout inning on only 9 pitches used to be pretty cool. Now, the new rules allow a pitcher to hypothetically strike out the side without throwing a pitch! That makes it a bad rule IMO.
I got news for the pitchers. If you miss your spots, you WILL get jacked! Doesn't matter who calls what pitch. When you leave sliders out over the plate, or make terrible 0-2 pitches, it's not the catcher's fault. Mikolas was doing the same crap yest w/ Kiz behind the plate. He just lucked out and batters were slightly off. Oh, BTW, shake off the damn pitch if you want to throw something else. So dysfunctional.....................
Really goes to show how one-of-a-kind Molina was. Gave the pitching staff confidence to throw the pitches they wanted to throw. He was never a 5 tool player but he had certain tools most don't and never will.
It's part of the job description for catchers. That's NOT going to change, nor should it. Look at the move in a positive way.... we get a better pitch caller and a catcher who doesn't let pitches go to the back stop because he moves too slow (stats say WP but really they were PB whiffs), or who completely misses one and gets hit on the knee and has to go on IL like Contreras did after game 1; pitchers will pitch better knowing they can throw the ball down lower in the zone without it going to the backstop or off Contreras' shin guards all the way to the dugout with all runners moving up, Contreras might actually hit better not having to squat and catch; the logjam of DH platooners can be packaged in trades for pitchers. In sum total, this looks like a good decision by the Cardinals.
Do coaches not call the majority of pitches in the mlb? Or…you know, have a coach call the game if Contreras is really that bad. Cardinals are almost always good so seeing them fail this hard is definitely interesting
no pitches are called from bench in MLB, there is no time for that with pitch clock anyway but teams would figure out the signs and really tee off on pitches
@@rayrussell6258, pitches are still routinely called from the bench. Apparently, you haven't watched a game this year as catchers are looking over at the bench continually.
@@nelsonward7981 for defensive signals, Nelson. not pitches; catchers especially need to know who will be covering 2nd base -- catchers used to signal that too, but with the game speeded up, they would get a delay of game penalty now
@@nelsonward7981 I played college ball and was invited to three MLB tryout camps. Decided to go into private business rather than take low paying minor league job. I coached high school baseball for years, winning record for career, so you would be wrong thinking I don't know what I'm saying. Since I see none of your stats, you must have played professionally for the Awshucks Green Chickens franchise in low DDD ball. lol
I just want to watch the game. And play fantasy baseball. And collect cards and jerseys of some of my favorite players. It can't be that weird, can it? As a guy that fell off after little league.
This is a Cardinals problem, not a baseball problem. We already knew the front office has a tendency to be too drunk on nostalgia to make the best moves to set them up for a championship, but to cast doubt on one catcher for the systemic failure of an entire staff is some sorry-ass shit. They can't sign Contreras and set an expectation for him to play like a prime Molina behind the plate. The organization is so set in their ways and takes talent for granted in a way that costs them.
I pitched in college and always talked with my catchers about my strengths and how I would like to attack each batter. If the situation in game changes we would coordinate. Jack is just a ignorant, average MLB pitcher who had 3 months of dominance followed by years of endless injury and making political statements. I could care less about it all if he was as good as he acts like he is. $30mil/3 years ($10mil annual) max offer. If he wants to walk I say go for it.
If Marmol is going to point fingers at evertone else to the media, then i guess i shouldnt be surprised when the deva thats never done anything but comment on social media does it too. Who's leading this team? Can we please hire a major league manager.
The Cards pitchers for the last 10 years or so, have not called there pitches Yadi did, so that may have something to do with it. Maybe they don't know how.
Kiz caught against Detroit all 3 games and they lost 2 of 3… And Contreras won the game for them last night in Chicago sounds like grown men not taking accountability
@@boschlosser10 agreed. I wish we could hire a manager with expirence, like the old days, instead of bringing up people with zero. Marmol hasn't proved he can manage in this league. Not even close. Usually I'm for giving a guy time to figure it out, but if he doesn't have the right stuff to lead professionals then get someone who is.
As a Cardinals fan, thank you AJ!
Im ready to see Flaherty go. Cardinals are hanging on to what could have been and refuse to see what he actually is now
They do that for every prospect. They have 1 1/2 good years and Mo keeps them around for 4 more seasons
You mean like keeping old man wainwright for 17 mil😅😅
“We’d have Jermaine Dye call pitches from right field”
😂😂😂😂 I love that
I don't like Flaherty, a season or 2 ago he said he wanted to be paid and intended on hitting the free agent market. I just don't think he is all-star caliber player .
I don't either. I dislike him so much that I catch myself rooting against him.
Its funny that the pitchers have a problem with WIllson when Jordan Montgomery has been the only pitcher worth a damn so far. Jack Flaherty should be one of the last ones to talk.
Heck, Jordan Montgomery threw to Gary Sanchez for many years when he was with the Yankees. He never complained and took accountability for his early struggles unlike some of his former rotation mates. Now the same is happening in St. Louis. You’re the pitcher, YOU throw the ball to home plate, not your catcher.
You never bury your teammate. Other teams take notice of this and will say its not worth it to sign Flaherty. Same with Mikolas.
I agree. Flattery needs to go and for awhile now. I felt like Mikolas burned Conteras also. I'd of had a hard time accepting this as a player. At least to the viewers he's been an upright man and has taken a lot of crap. Bad management to let this happen!!
Personally im really disappointed in Contreras' abilities behind the plate. But not as disappointed as i am in our new minor league manager who hasnt figured out how to handle the big leagues yet.
Flaherty has had a deva attitude since day one and hasn't done anything productive in years, unless we count crying about stuff on social media. Untill he does something well, id prefer it if he'd just shut up and pitch.
I was taught in high school that the pitcher controls the game. Every play in baseball starts with the pitcher. If the pitch call doesn't make sense to you as a pitcher, correct it. Call a timeout and sync up.
can't do that anymore, with the new time clock rules; what you were told in HS no longer applies in MLB. Gotta get the game done sooner!
GM is the problem team has been getting worse for several years. The starts with with the GM.
Gotta love AJ! As a Cards fan even, I still always loved watching him catch. It ain't Willson, it's the front office. That and the fact that spine in a manager is apparently a disqualifying condition for being in that role ....
I like AJ's common sense approach! I mean for christ sakes this has been handled terribly by the STL F.O.
there is never a good way to handle demotions, but it has to be done.
AJ should be the Cardinals pitching coach, but he'd tell Mo and Oli to fuck off, because he's not a yes man!
AJ nailed this
I suggest people watch the condensed game of Contreras catching Flaherty in the Angels game in which Flaherty got torched. Many times Contreras would set up down and away or down and in and Flaherty missed toward the middle of the plate. IMO it's not the pitchers as a whole, more like one, (Flaherty) maybe two, that are using Contreras as a scapegoat.
Or a coach can just call it the “cardinal way”…this was a personal decision. Contreras isn’t liked by the pitchers. Yadi could be watching TV in a hammock from PR and calling it in to the battery, but he can’t make those pitchers execute
What they are doing now is not the Cardinal way it is the manager and GM's way.
@@1162labringyou're right; "analytics" is causing a lot of losses;
with the talent the Dodgers have had, T. Lasorta would have won 3 World Series, not just one like Dave Roberts and analytics won.
I grew up pitching and once had a coach tell me, "If you throw what the catcher calls and they hit it, it's your fault. If you shake off the catcher and they hit it, it's your fault."
Except because of pitch clock you cant shake off relentlessly & mound visits are very limited... the times & game have been changed ;o)
Living in Chicago, I saw Contreras catch countless games for the Cubs. This was never an issue. The Cubs pitchers all took accountability for their pitch selection. Even the rookies.
Agreed, he was my favorite player on the cubs while he was there. He is a winning catcher, definitely not the problem.
he was defensive liability in Chicago by all objective measures, and the Cubs got immediately better this season with him gone, while the Cardinals immediately got worse; I think there is a clear connection; Cardinals are making the right decision to use him as DH.
@@rayrussell6258 Really? That’s crazy talk man. Nahhhhhh…..the Cubs signing those FA’s and their pitching staff finally showing some bloom on that rose since All Star break LAST YEAR in 2022 had nothing to do with it? Maybe because they have a team with some names fans outside of Wrigley I’ll would recognize? Maybe? So, like I’ve done for 3 years now, suck it up buttercup, and swallow your pride and admit YOU SUCK and go home. Come back tomorrow and try getting a W. FFS. Entitled a bit maybe? 🤏🏼
@@rayrussell6258 I’d say it’s a coincidence. Wilson was never an amazing defender but his arm was always great, say what you want about blocking and framing but it was never an ‘issue’ in Chicago. Cardinals pitching staff is horrendous and the Cubs have overall improved in many positions this year, you have to be delusional if you think signing Wilson Contreras would tank a roster. At worst he is as good as Yadi was last season.
@@willbarnhart8833 oh my, do you not know how to evaluate players, to say that Will.
Even at 40, Yadi dared anyone to steal on him, and darned few were successful. Contreras might not have one runner thrown-out stealing this year. You say "at worst ... as good as Yadi"? Not even close. Contreras is so bad, he is too slow to even reach for pitches now, increasing wild pitch stats on our pitchers, it's not just framing and blocking, he even whiffed on a pitch right at him and had to go on IL for a contusion when the ball struck his knee, in the / after the home opener. It's no coincidence, I can't agree with you there, Contreras's defensive skills were never great but they deteriorated extensively with Cubs last year, and if he was so great the Cubs would have made a counter offer to keep him. They didn't. His defense sure was the issue (and also durability at the position), that's why they let him go, and with the great arm as you called it he threw out 25% of runners (low-middle rank among MLB catchers), while Yadi was 40% if I remember last season's stats. Contreras was on the IL at least three times last year, missed a lot of games. He is way past his prime as a catcher. The decision to use him as a DH looks good. I think it will even extend his career usefulness. As good as Yogi Berra was as a hitter and catcher, the Yankees moved him to left field when he got to Contreras's age.
We gotta stop 2nd guessing the Cardinal's catcher decision, Kinzner has been hitting and plays better defense. Now, it's up to Mozeliak to balance the roster to bring in pitchers.
this was spot on and 5 seconds later they gave Contreras his job back
The Cardinals have turned into a circus. The "Cardinal way" which worked for a long time, hasn't evolved with the modern game. They're like a car stuck in the mud, the wheels are spinning but instead of putting something under the tires to fix it, they just floor the gas peddle.
They got mud in their cleats
the Cardinal way still works, but Mozeliak is hell bent on changing to modern "analytics" that don't work
Thank you, this is exactly what I have been saying. They pulled Wilson to put the sole owness on the pitching staff. Now it is 100% on them. Jack has an attitude problem and will end up in cali next year. Gfl jack being a b.
Guess he better hope he pitches good tonight,
throwing pitches that don't make sense could also be about the quality of pitches. Jack also said "I was taken out because I sucked"
As a Cards fan I hope we trade Flaherty's, he got rocked with Knizner catching, what excuse does he have now? Dude sucks
I realize the Cubs and Wilson went their separate ways because of difference of opinion regarding what role/how important the offense means [from the C position] to the FO moving forward. Willson’ s strengths are his bat. So technically it isn’t CRAZY to DH him. Saves knees etc….(think Posey). But the way they went to that move publicly was utter BS. Dude is an all star. Deserves better. I’m a Cubs fan. But that shouldn’t matter TBH.
Of course they are going to think Wilson Contreras is the problem. They were great all of these years with Yadi behind the dish.
Totally agree!
I've never liked Flaherty! He is a punk and has proven time and time again he doesn't want to be in St. Louis!
The Cardinals starters can’t get through the order 3x without getting blown up. There is a bunch of pitchers in MLB getting blown up this year. I’m wondering if they can’t pitch well without the shift on.
We’ll there’s more hits going thur down the middle so yeah the shift played a big part
The pitch clock also plays a role (maybe more than the shift). They really don't have time to shake off a called pitch.
it's the pitch clock ruining pitching, clear and simple. Can't even hold runners close or you violate the rules.
@@rayrussell6258 Definitely a nonsensical hindrance. A 3-strikeout inning on only 9 pitches used to be pretty cool. Now, the new rules allow a pitcher to hypothetically strike out the side without throwing a pitch! That makes it a bad rule IMO.
They need a new manager.
I don't remember seeing this, is it normal to blame a catcher for a collective pitching "slump"?
Poor management. Plain and simple. End of story.
I got news for the pitchers. If you miss your spots, you WILL get jacked! Doesn't matter who calls what pitch. When you leave sliders out over the plate, or make terrible 0-2 pitches, it's not the catcher's fault. Mikolas was doing the same crap yest w/ Kiz behind the plate. He just lucked out and batters were slightly off. Oh, BTW, shake off the damn pitch if you want to throw something else. So dysfunctional.....................
if you fear your catcher can't block low pitches, you throw a little bit higher and some of those get jacked; so YES it's the catcher's fault.
@@rayrussell6258 🤣🤡
The poor rotation and management want to use Wilson as the scapegoat
Really goes to show how one-of-a-kind Molina was. Gave the pitching staff confidence to throw the pitches they wanted to throw. He was never a 5 tool player but he had certain tools most don't and never will.
Jack diaper baby Flaherty. Send that ❄️ packin plz
It's part of the job description for catchers. That's NOT going to change, nor should it.
Look at the move in a positive way.... we get a better pitch caller and a catcher who doesn't let pitches go to the back stop because he moves too slow (stats say WP but really they were PB whiffs), or who completely misses one and gets hit on the knee and has to go on IL like Contreras did after game 1; pitchers will pitch better knowing they can throw the ball down lower in the zone without it going to the backstop or off Contreras' shin guards all the way to the dugout with all runners moving up, Contreras might actually hit better not having to squat and catch; the logjam of DH platooners can be packaged in trades for pitchers. In sum total, this looks like a good decision by the Cardinals.
We’ll flathery is the pitcher you the one who threwing the ball no one else to blame
Do coaches not call the majority of pitches in the mlb? Or…you know, have a coach call the game if Contreras is really that bad.
Cardinals are almost always good so seeing them fail this hard is definitely interesting
no pitches are called from dugout in MLB; teams would figure out and steal those signals and REALLY tee off on pitches.
About what you would expect from Flaherty.
1. Marmol SUCKS!
2. Most of the pitches are called from the bench.
no pitches are called from bench in MLB, there is no time for that with pitch clock anyway but teams would figure out the signs and really tee off on pitches
@@rayrussell6258, pitches are still routinely called from the bench. Apparently, you haven't watched a game this year as catchers are looking over at the bench continually.
@@nelsonward7981 for defensive signals, Nelson. not pitches; catchers especially need to know who will be covering 2nd base -- catchers used to signal that too, but with the game speeded up, they would get a delay of game penalty now
@@rayrussell6258, I played professionally.
You simply don't have a clue.
@@nelsonward7981 I played college ball and was invited to three MLB tryout camps. Decided to go into private business rather than take low paying minor league job. I coached high school baseball for years, winning record for career, so you would be wrong thinking I don't know what I'm saying. Since I see none of your stats, you must have played professionally for the Awshucks Green Chickens franchise in low DDD ball. lol
A.J. is so cool
I just want to watch the game. And play fantasy baseball. And collect cards and jerseys of some of my favorite players. It can't be that weird, can it? As a guy that fell off after little league.
This is a Cardinals problem, not a baseball problem. We already knew the front office has a tendency to be too drunk on nostalgia to make the best moves to set them up for a championship, but to cast doubt on one catcher for the systemic failure of an entire staff is some sorry-ass shit.
They can't sign Contreras and set an expectation for him to play like a prime Molina behind the plate. The organization is so set in their ways and takes talent for granted in a way that costs them.
Cardinals 2-0 since the demotion; the decision looks good
I pitched in college and always talked with my catchers about my strengths and how I would like to attack each batter. If the situation in game changes we would coordinate. Jack is just a ignorant, average MLB pitcher who had 3 months of dominance followed by years of endless injury and making political statements. I could care less about it all if he was as good as he acts like he is. $30mil/3 years ($10mil annual) max offer. If he wants to walk I say go for it.
If Marmol is going to point fingers at evertone else to the media, then i guess i shouldnt be surprised when the deva thats never done anything but comment on social media does it too. Who's leading this team? Can we please hire a major league manager.
What if the Cards start winning now? then it was Contreras.
The Cards pitchers for the last 10 years or so, have not called there pitches Yadi did, so that may have something to do with it. Maybe they don't know how.
Kiz caught against Detroit all 3 games and they lost 2 of 3…
And Contreras won the game for them last night in Chicago sounds like grown men not taking accountability
@@boschlosser10 agreed. I wish we could hire a manager with expirence, like the old days, instead of bringing up people with zero. Marmol hasn't proved he can manage in this league. Not even close. Usually I'm for giving a guy time to figure it out, but if he doesn't have the right stuff to lead professionals then get someone who is.
Isn't Flaherty the big time woke guy? Great woke guy, blame the minority for YOUR issues.