SHOULD YOU PUSH OR PULL A MIG WELD? FLAT OR RIPPLE BEAD?
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2018
- In this video I'm doing an experiment with short circuit mig. Push vs pull or drag, and a flat weld bead vs a weave or ripple. I have had a few comments on the way that I push and pull my welds and wanted to do a video showing why I think it doesn't make much difference if you push or pull and the benefits ov a ripple bead vs flat.
My names Matt Urch and I own and run Urchfab welding and fabrication.
I specialise in custom automotive fabrication from building roll cages to complete one off builds.
I built the worlds most unique and oldest drift car known as the drift rod which can be found on my channel.
So if your into grinding, welding, fabricating, drifting, going fast etc, your in the right place! 
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RUclips weld inspector .. that's gold Matt
Lmao
nice welding , i,m a qualified welder been so over 20 years , on the job you do what ever it takes to stick the metal together, pull push whatever cheers
Yes sir, I'm 10 years in only but agree. Push and pull will give you different profiles but that's about it.
The blowtorch trick is a great find! I can't believe how well it shows the grain boundaries. Screw etching!
Gotta love the internet! I've never seen that either!
Yeh I was surprised with that, I need to try it with the acid and see how much difference there is. Cheers
I didn't know that truck either, I've been watching with naval jelly
Can't fucking stand this guy. Say it once and stfu. You stutter and repeat the same fkin thing to many times. Fucking radios son....
Fuck yeah!!! Great trick
Matt explains everything so well. He would be a great teacher, certainly on a one to one basis. Thoroughly enjoying his videos. Thank you Matt
I have an 85' MR2 project on the go that needs a bit of welding in the frunk. Never picked up a welder before but these vids are spot on. Thanks for the tips Matt!
Dude your videos really inform and help me understand welding in general. Keep the videos coming. I'll be tuned in.
You are a very good teacher. I wish I had found your channel a long time ago.
Pipe welding for 4 years its tough but you have taught me alot in this 1 video . Thanks 👌
Thanks, Urch, using the propane torch looks like a really useful technique for highlighting the weld. I also appreciate you taking the time to make multiple cuts across the weld like you did. Most people just do one cut/etch and assume it's representative, but it stands to reason that there will be some variability along the bead.
Great video Matt, helps a lot. Thanks for sharing. Cheers
Thanks, Matt! Nice explanation and demo!
Really humble and down to earth, real world assessment and it draws parallels with non welding aspects of what we do and how we think, we do what we can with what we have to make the best bonds possible,
Great work mate, good to see a technique for testing the penetration too. So many shoddy fabricators on youtube showing people how to do things the wrong way. Keep it up man.
Matt that is one of best helpful videos i have watched,thanks regards frank.
You are a great teacher, i learn welding from you.
Thanks Matt well explained! Yes you need to weld in different directions to suit the conditions
This is the first time I've seen this torch trick to show weld penetration. I've only seen this done with chemicals until now. The torch trick is something I am going to try. Thanks
Really enjoying these videos. Good info and an excellent relatable delivery. Cheers m'dear :) like the tip with the map gas. I'm so going to try that.
Thanks.
RUclips weld inspector...loved that one..I work at a junk yard so I fix alot a stuff...lol...yeah sometimes ya just gotta do what works..
Excellent info & Presentation. Very useful. Thanks for posting & sharing.
You explain things very well.
Well sometimes I do a straight weld and then go back over with the weave to make it wider. Love the videos matt
The great debate - push or pull. I was taught, as a general rule, if there is slag, drag, otherwise push. However I've seen people MIG doing both and there seemed to be little difference in either regarding penetration and both produced good welds. As you stated in the beginning, in the real world sometime you have no choice and have to use both. BTW - great idea using the torch to highlight the welds. I just learned something new
Thanks alot for the video mate. I'm going through welding school right now and after watching countless hours of the "Weaving" method videos and trying it out in school, my instructor was quick to tell me to stop that. Apparently, by their standards atleast a pretty weld doesn't mean it's a good weld and you're better of straight pushing it.
Kinda weird since I see so many big names on RUclips doing it but whatever, I suppose they have a reason to say so. Also they recommend pushing a MIG weld, I realize ofcourse that at work you have to do whatever it takes. Welding in school and at work are two different animals.
Great content buddy and thanks again.
Excellent, learnt something new !
That is absolutely correct. Push pull left hand right hand,you do what you have to. When I was much younger work for LeTourneau, in Vicksburg, I've seen guys Weld upside down with a mirror so they could see the bottom of a pipe on a manifold. Very nice
Awesome videos! I weave mig 100% as long as space permits , only time I won’t weave with mig is with flux core wire.
Discovered that little heat etching trick myself at work pushing a piece hard on a belt sander. No more chemicals! Where i work they have a whole process for cutting, etching, and putting the piece under a microscope. Im sure if you put a higher polish on the piece the then heated it and put it under the scope the view would be just as good as with the acid etching method. 👍
I agree with everything you say make no really important difference only time you would wanna do it to the books is if it’s a high structural need how ever there is no real benifit of having a really big leg length keep it to the same thickness has the material any smaller then the weld is a weekspot any bigger the it’s just excessive strength and moves the chance of cracking/braking to the actually material which makes it harder for repairs I could go all day about the structural aspect of welds but I’ll leave it there other then that I agree with you completely great video man support from Australia
A brilliant man love watching and learning thank you very much❤️👀👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Really enjoyed this. I'm a beginner welder, but with a lot of background in ship design, welding theory, shipbuilding, and heavy structural, from an engineering management point of view.
I think you should consider working towards a welding Engineer degree. With your curiosity and ability to design good demonstrations, you'd be a good fit.
Trying to answer the question of the ages. Great demo. I too have tested my welds by bending them over and even some of my ugly looking weld held. Seems like the answer is that if you have your machine set correctly, you'll get a satisfactory weld. BTW, this is the most informative channel I've found. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Good to hear, Cheers
⛩
my experience with push / pull: pulling keeps the wire in the puddle which gives you a bit more heat in the puddle. good for thick stuff or structural. do whatever u want as long as it penetrates. Thinner metal I like to push because you seem to have less of a chance of blowing through thinner metal while pushing. its just preference. Weaving is good for large pieces and thicker weld beads. plus stacking dimes is fun.
Handy notes for when I get my new consumables and practice some more MIG tomorrow.
It's curious how works totally oposite to me, when im welding 2-3 mm plate i like to increase a little the distance of the stickout and go pulling, and it goes very consistent for me 🤣
“RUclips weld inspector” made me cry 😢 great video like most of the ones you put up
Good show! Thanks for sharing!
Awesome channel your welds are absolutely unbelievable you’re a good teacher learned a lot keep up the videos
I use push flick back to initially heat material and flick back to ad material (wire). Works a treat! Can also be used in pull. I fabricate gym equipment and structural , all tested, all perfect 👍🏻
I was leading hand in a truck chassis mod shop for a while and we x-ray'd all our welds on chassis rails.
I can say with 100% confidence that a good welder can do a perfect weld almost any which way.
We tested and then it was ultra sound treated and x-ray'd again and we never had a fail.
The 2 things that are detrimental in making a weld fail is inclusions and voids and as long as thou use the appropriate filler wire and settings and have prepared correctly, how you apply the filler wire doesn't change that much, or you can prep the material to use a certain process.
Personally I'm not any where near as consistent as I should be but I hired guys that were like robots.
One of my guys lived for welding, he was always trying to get better or learn a new process but when we tested him against a robot welder once trying to justify the million dollar price tag, he was more consistent because he was able to feel see and adjust on the move.
Not bad for a guy with a 3rd grade education and couldn't read or write.
He got all his tickets on practical testing in the oil industry some how.
with the e type of welding you can walk the cup along the weld , gives you more controll , they do the same thing with tig welding , even make wider cups for that
i agree with what you said in the first 5 minutes. what ever works for what your trying to do .. great video . .
Excellent video. Thank you!
That blow torch test was great, funny how visible it is! Need to try that at home, also that you say your welds are not as consistent as you thought, could it not be the metal which is different or contaminants? The welds looked great and i agree the e style welding also seems to come out nicest on my part.
A really good demonstration and analysis of your results. I expected that you would get some variation in results from the cursive style given the change in torch angle to the workpiece. I think you could also use pulse to get the ripple effect albeit that is normally in spray-arc transfer. Would have been interesting to see a comparison with spray-arc (pulse and non-pulse) for the straight pass given I'd expect the penetration to be greater for that transfer mode. Enjoyable watching - I must have strange tastes :-)
I'm planning to do some pulse vs short circuit, my new mig has pulse mode on it. Cheers
Love your vids bro top stuff
Thank you. Great test.
great informative videos, goes to proof that one should learn to weld before starting a project. mainly so you dont have to back later when your welding comes up to scratch and all your ugly welds remind you how bad you were to start with
Nice penetration. I use a combination of the methods too but I am a hobbyist. I like the technic for testing welds
great presentation thanks for the info..
Thanks, I’ve never welded before but I guess if there is a risk of oxidation then fill in the gaps, the last thing you want is a gap where water and acid can eat at the iron and create a structural fault by corrosion. If using stainless steel where corrosion contamination is low then it doesn’t matter, so probably a nice fancy pattern on stainless.
I do thank God for you brother and the way your demeanor is in delivering your communication. It is not mean but rather kind and no sense of bias. Good job and may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you.
Awesome vid Mucca
LMFAO you had me at RUclips welding inspector! 😂
Great vid 💯
Horses for courses I’d say looking at your results I can see benefits for each type but I’m not a welder
Great vid for a novice like me, cheers
Thanks for really getting into the finer points, but may need a wee bit more volume. Our problems (us wrinklies) can,t see very well to see where we’re going. What to do next! John from Oz
Cool look at the process - thanks :-)
Nice job again, I saw on the Miller or Lincoln site, that pulling tends to penetrate more versus pushing, I've found that to be true generally. As you said, getting the tiny arc down into the root is important, in my view, the weaving thing is misunderstood, I think its ok for some jobs, my apprenticeship was mostly stick welding and when capping a multi run we were taught to "walk the arc" at all times concentrating on maintaining a consistent arc. In general, you didn't turn your wrist as this can open the arc so you kept your wrist locked. You can see the arc open up in TIG if you don't travel and rotate the torch. Whatever , you are right, you do what you need to get the job done.Top tip with that blowtorch, and" you tube welding inspector" ha ha, cracked me up, so true lol.
Cheers, there's so much info out there its hard to know what to believe, its always best to just have a go or find someone who actually does it for a job. an old friend who taught me a lot used to say you should always be straight up and down and look in from the side rather than tilt the torch for mig. he built some amazing stuff.
My teacher told/taught me how to weld both push and pull, and to always try different techniques because there might be one you like more than the other
I have a weld test for shipfitting in a few days. never touched a mig setup in my life always used stick! hoping ill be able to pass the basic weld/tack test
Nice video. Thanks fot that. Put guards on your angle grinders man. I once had a accident with such a small angle grinder and it was no joke. Never think 'it won't happen to you'... The disc turns at 12.000 RPM. Never think you're 100% in control...
Great informational video. I would live to know how you did that cut and burn. Like what is important to get that to come out well. Looks way easier than Cutting and etching
I just polish it with a scotch disk then blast it until it just starts to blue then let it cool. simple as that. Cheers
MAP test is a quick home method. Maybe not best,but some indication. I'll be trying this .
Where can I get my you tube weld inspector qualifications lol good vids
Was taught to drag MIG for increased root penetration on horizontal fillets. Also worked for me
Drag if there is slag.
Love your videos mate watch them all as you teach me loads! have your thought about filming behind a mask so we can see this (spring/eeeee’s) you talk about? Also diggin the T shirt do you sell them?
Yeh i'm gonna have a play around and get that setup. I will have some shirts for sale soon. Cheers
The only way to get total consistancy is to machine weld, I have been welding all kinds of stuff from cars to rusty framework for nearly fifty years and agree with everything you say, when you are welding, in situ, have to adapt and do whatever it takes to get the job done, as shown by spot welding you don't really need to weld solid all along so if you do this will compensate for any variation in the welds plus it looks nicer.
Stick it to the man brother lol mate I’m coded and work on all sorts. Mainly structural Steels and I do all sorts of shapes sizes and consistencies of welds. It’s all about comfort at the end of the day. If your welds look fairly consistent and your settings are close enough, chances are nothing’s gonna fall off. Good vid brother as always. Keep it up shag.
Different applications for different jobs, but i like a pattern :)
It all comes down to how it holds. One can be stronger than the other
I was taught push is better than a pull because you are pushing into the heat and will get better penetration but that's because I'm a beginner and I think a push is easier for those starting out.
In our ASME weld shop using 1/16 Flux core wire and co2 flowing 45cfm we pull. No weave. Comes out great. Mill scale is removed for exray jobs only
Haters gonna hate. I'm a welder fabricator using tig and mig on mostly stainless steel, and I use different techniques every day depending on what it is I'm welding. I'll generally push and do the stop start method and I prefer to weld hot and go downward with mig but go up with tig because it's easier to get wire in. But basically you got to do what you got to do. Anyone that says you should only do one method must just be doing 1" butt welds in the middle of a football pitch or something lol. Keep up the top work mate. Loving the mongrel build so far.
Appreciate the vid!!
I agree with your general purpose types of weld. My mig like tig welds on hot rods would make a structural or pipe welder cringe .
Pretty good watch mate however did you think that maybe the weld settings should be different for all these different Weld methods?
It kind of seemed to me more of a test of the best weld type for that particular settings on thin steel.
I agree that most methods will work especially if you take the time to get the machine dialed in for how you Weld. I guess I would think that with most welds failing in the HAZ that maybe the stringer inputting less heat as the Weld profile is more consistent. As you need the valleys in the ripple to meet the minimum Weld profile requirements?
Wish I could put down such gorgeous beads
In the 80s when l passed my ASME 6GR and Mig certs l was taught push, and pull flux cored.
Hey dude. Great, great work with all your videos. I've just started MIG welding and have a question for you. I live in Barbados and nobody provides cO2 + Argon mix. I have pure Argon but am finding my weld experiments end up narrow and high even though they fully penetrate. Is pure CO2 a better option you think? What would you do? Thanks again and keep the vids coming.
Co2 will produce deeper penetration but has some problems too. This will give you some good info. www.bernardwelds.com/mig-welding-shielding-gas-basics-p152080#.XNbPWKcpBoM
I actually have to hold upside down when I'm going up hill and the weld comes out beautiful my flat welds look lime they need help bit they are sturdy I weld rail cars
Good welder can do it in every direction just like they taught us in welding school
"welders do it in every direction" sounds like it should be on a t-shirt :)
You should try some dual shield wire it works with 75/25 or C25
Heat build up in the piece also can produce pretty big differences in the weld from i i have experienced.
Enjoyed you video! Cheers from Canada, but I hope that grinding disc never explodes on you without the guard in place.
I am sure Matt does what we all do..... make a decision and be responsible for the consequences. No need for other people to go all nanny on him.
I was taught to always push. Most instructional videos on RUclips say to always pull. I've done both where the situation called for it.
I also like the look of a non weaving weld on heavy duty stuff, but will use a weave a lot on thinner material and especially welding thick to thin. There are loads of reasons for all techniques
sidewaysdanny agreed and same here. I guess RUclips lives in an alternative reality. push has better penetration and with stick you're told to push and mig you can do either. If I have something to weld and there was a thicker workpiece I would give some kind of movement of the torch where it's focused onto the thicker one longer while I correlate with temp and speed. I typically try to just push unless I'm trying to build weld up then I'll pull with mig.
@@BrokenAbyss pushing is really only necessary for greater penetration, otherwise you'll generally get better looking results with dragging. It depends on what the job calls for at the end of the day.
I've taught a lot of people how to weld. By far the best was a professional musician that played cello in an orchestra. The first weld he ever did looked like it was done by a robot.
It would be really interesting to see one of your whipped welds cut lengthwise to see how consistent the penetration is.
Yeh I would be interested to see that too, not sure how easy that would be to do though.
both techniques can work well , from your video you can see which you practice more often , that does not make the other technique worse , just less practised.
in the real world you do either , what ever suits , or what ever the code or spec calls for.
Yea I have to weld thicker metal to thin gauge metal so I have to use a weave I stay on the thicker and wip in otherwise I blow a hole right through the thin gauge if I go in a straight line
I went to school for welding years ago. We were taught that a mig flat bead weld was bad. I then worked for Toyota and they wouldn't allow anything but a flat weld. There is a difference in opinion between both worlds. One, the structural welding world would say it is a must to use a pattern to get the best penetration. Two the manufacturing world says patterns cause bubbles in the pentration of the weld making it weaker. When in all actuality manufacturers are want the least and fastest weld to save money, product, and time. I was also taught in school that for mig it didn't matter what direction you welding unless it was a vertical weld.
Sometimes just got to do whatever you can to get the job done ✅
Brilliant video thank u ❤️👀👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Clarke rust eater (phosphoric acid) works easily for etching. I tried that after watching Jodie's videos.
The important thing is you, are the one making money welding. If your welds suck, your business sucks. It doesn't take long for customers to find out out good or bad your welding is. Great video, great view of the different welding techniques.
I always liked pushing cuz you can get your face in there and really control the puddle, pulling you have the nozzle there. But yeah, it really doesn't matter. Good vid. 👍 RUclips welding inspectors 🤣
Do u keep the gun tip on the plate or a little away when welding
Lincoln Welders says, "If you Slag, You Drag (pull)" .. i guess, otherwise, same results either way.. They have a good video on youtube about MIG welding..
when I can not get my mig gun into a tight spot I get out the stick welder and some 2mm 6013 (if thin metal) and have a go. I had to today
welding so stops for a grate no way to get mig gun in there. Push or drag on mig makes no difference to me, what ever works to get the work done. good video.
I usually try to avoid the stick welder unless I'm working outside, but yeh sometimes its the only way. I use an mb15 mig torch for doing roll cages, that helps a bit for tight spots. Cheers
You should put a welding mask infront of the camera so people can see the arc as you're welding.
Nice welds! Nee sub
The camera usually doesn’t pick up the arc very well through a mask
Really nice informative video Matt. I'm going to be doing some jig practice soon welding up some cubes like in one of your previous videos and I'm going to try each technique to see what results I can get.
Good stuff, Cheers.