Great video, Jamie. This is the result of software that doesn't know who it's for. The classic theme approach is perfect for a certain (hugely popular) workflow, audience, and use case. The block theme approach meets no-one's needs. Great to see you calling this out and offering a way forward.
Not sure I agree that the block theme approach meets no-one's needs. I beg to differ. Once you understand how blocks/block themes work - you can really do amazing stuff you can't really do with the free version of most classic themes and even some page builders. The problem is the learning curve is steep - you need someone to hold your hand through the process and it can take a few hours.
Great comparison. Yes, some things can confuse me, even if I like to work with blocks but in classic themes with the Customizer. We need more of your suggestions to create greater awareness of the bottlenecks. Thank you for your work!
Thank you - my hope is that getting feedback on issues like this helps the product development going forward. My guiding light in creating WordPress content is always, does it help end users and does it help WordPress. Constructive feedback helps.
I was very excited about the idea of FSE, but the implementation isn’t only hard on beginners, but also for those of us who have spent years with WordPress, but only average a few days per year on making or revising a handful of hobby or starving artist websites. Wordpress has stopped being fun to use for me and the recent drama only adds to that sinking feeling. 😢 Your suggestion is a very good one. And building menus could also use a similar idea. And I still don’t know why making blogrolls / link lists has become so painful, rather than remaining a core and always available feature. WordPress could be the alternative independent web / user controlled social network - but is now hostage to oversized financial empires and egos, while simple core needs are overlooked. This most excellent video is illustration of that sad self-destruction. Wordpress does indeed need a radical re-think.
Great job Jamie. Thank you for calling this out. At a higher level, you are addressing a symptom of a much larger problem. WordPress leadership does not understand or appreciate the importance of customer-driven product development. When I speak on this topic, I call what they're doing inside-out marketing. Imagine a business owner standing on the roof of their business, shouting at the world about how awesome they are. Really successful brands practice outside-in marketing. They understand the problem their best customers are trying to solve and provide a solution.
It's kind of already there. Theme devs can register a pattern and have multiple options for that template. twenty-twenty-five has it. Select the template, and choose the appropriate layout. this can also be expanded to parts as well. We use it all the time. The problem is that its not that clear. More documentation is required / needs to be updated. I just searched it on WP and couldnt find much reference to it. Great vid as always 🚀
Good idea I would have appreciated that 5 years ago, but now I learned to love it. It's like that first car you buy yourself with your parent's blessing; I would have wanted a Mustang, but all I got was a Fiat 124 Sport two-door edition 1973, and back then, I learned to appreciate them for what it is-simple, wonderful.
I've been working with WP for years and like the block themes idea but always get lost in designs, Making it easier to navigate and more logical with and option to go deeper into the technicals is ideal.
Totally agree. I’m a front end developer and I’ve built classic themes from scratch a few times. I’m currently creating a replication of an old website using a block theme from scratch and it’s taking me ages. The UI is not very intuitive at all and neither are some of the concepts.
Yes, I think the backend of WP needs a radical change in 2025. I too love block themes. They are becoming a great tool for low/mid-level site builders like me. But frankly the concept is a lot better than the user interface. If it doesn't contain "everything" that the classic theme customizer often does but just has a few basics like headers, footers, menus, page layouts, which then will feed into the site editor files to be edited there if/when wanted, I think it's a great idea. I hope you go ahead and build it as a plugin. It would be better if the entire backend of WP got a user-focused design & functionality reorganization, but just in case that doesn't happen . . . a plugin like this would be great.
to add dynamic content in a classic theme is so much easier with db.php the class $wpdb-> and php-arrays sprecial php-commands in wordpress for third party (xml curl)
Regarding Classic Themes: they are indeed easier to use. But they also only offer what they are designed for. In your example, the Blocksy theme (I've never tried it out) seems to offer three different designs, two of them with a sidebar. But other themes don't have designs with a sidebar. How you add one in those cases? Mostly impossible, unless you know how to code a custom theme. Now to Block Themes: I also love the flexibility they give. But I 100% agree that they are not as end-user-friendly as Classic Themes (with their quite limited possibilities). One "easy" things I was surprised is not possible that easily: choose a design for a specific template. Let's say the Block Theme offers a "Single Blog Post with Sidebar" and a "Single Block Post" (without a sidebar) template. Only one of them is the default one and you can't "define" which one to use. You can only copy/paste all block from one of them and overwrite the default one. Or you create a new custom template and set it to be the new default for all single blog posts. Not as intuitive. Your demo looks like a way into a solution, so thanks for the video!
A huge thanks for this video. Coming from a developing background I tried to convert my classic theme into a block theme for years. I've struggled so far with technical issues and in finding the elements and their propeties in the GUI. I'm much faster with a "thought out" style.css or functions.php. Love your approach and thoughts about usability and UX.
The whole - how do you edit the header and footer is a real issue, as for layouts, I think the next wordpress core template should come with a ton of layout options. Not Patterns. Think: Pages, Page No Title, Page with Column, Page with Three Column, Page Full Width, etc. Maybe a guided get started where you choose which templates you want, and then it loads those templates. Patterns are nice for beginners, but they often don't follow style guides, etc, leaving you with an inconsistent site.
I like the idea of combining classic themes and block themes. Because, really - even for a WordPress developer it may be not very obvious how (or where) to change that specific template. The question is, how to make it possible to use template parts from a block theme inside a classic theme?
Very well explained. Getting started with block themes is confusing for beginners (like me). It is not ''intuitive'' and you easily get lost. I prefer block themes however.
This has been a major stumbling block for many of my students and clients as well. It's just not an intuitive UI and UX at the moment. It's a major reason I end up having to create extensive tutorials in my courses. In some cases my clients have given up and have moved to other solutions. WordPress desperately need a radical rethink...and fast!
Jamie, What Block theme would be best for a website I want to generate income from? I will be designing the pages, headers etc myself so not really looking at patterns and templates but more from a long term support point of view.
Yes to blocks, no to block themes. They could have customised the customiser and included fse within that. They tried to create something that would compete with wix, SS, etc, and failed miserably. Ditch FSE, and move on, user stats say it all, classic themes won.
FSE is unusable. No wonder Matt went nuclear on WPE because it took the focus away from HOW BAD THE WORDPRESS UI/UX is! 8 years to get to this point is, well, embarrassing, to say the least.
I thought you might say that David ;) I just want to re-iterate that FSE is great for certain use cases (e.g enterprise clients). I love Block Themes, but I do see an issue with complexity for first time users atm.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video, Jamie. This is the result of software that doesn't know who it's for. The classic theme approach is perfect for a certain (hugely popular) workflow, audience, and use case. The block theme approach meets no-one's needs. Great to see you calling this out and offering a way forward.
Hey Dave, thanks for watching..and for your thoughts.
Not sure I agree that the block theme approach meets no-one's needs. I beg to differ. Once you understand how blocks/block themes work - you can really do amazing stuff you can't really do with the free version of most classic themes and even some page builders. The problem is the learning curve is steep - you need someone to hold your hand through the process and it can take a few hours.
Great comparison. Yes, some things can confuse me, even if I like to work with blocks but in classic themes with the Customizer. We need more of your suggestions to create greater awareness of the bottlenecks. Thank you for your work!
Thank you - my hope is that getting feedback on issues like this helps the product development going forward. My guiding light in creating WordPress content is always, does it help end users and does it help WordPress. Constructive feedback helps.
I was very excited about the idea of FSE, but the implementation isn’t only hard on beginners, but also for those of us who have spent years with WordPress, but only average a few days per year on making or revising a handful of hobby or starving artist websites. Wordpress has stopped being fun to use for me and the recent drama only adds to that sinking feeling. 😢 Your suggestion is a very good one. And building menus could also use a similar idea. And I still don’t know why making blogrolls / link lists has become so painful, rather than remaining a core and always available feature. WordPress could be the alternative independent web / user controlled social network - but is now hostage to oversized financial empires and egos, while simple core needs are overlooked. This most excellent video is illustration of that sad self-destruction.
Wordpress does indeed need a radical re-think.
Great job Jamie. Thank you for calling this out. At a higher level, you are addressing a symptom of a much larger problem. WordPress leadership does not understand or appreciate the importance of customer-driven product development. When I speak on this topic, I call what they're doing inside-out marketing. Imagine a business owner standing on the roof of their business, shouting at the world about how awesome they are. Really successful brands practice outside-in marketing. They understand the problem their best customers are trying to solve and provide a solution.
Thanks as ever for your insight :)
@@jamiewp I do enjoy tilting at windmills 🙂
It's kind of already there. Theme devs can register a pattern and have multiple options for that template. twenty-twenty-five has it. Select the template, and choose the appropriate layout. this can also be expanded to parts as well. We use it all the time. The problem is that its not that clear. More documentation is required / needs to be updated. I just searched it on WP and couldnt find much reference to it. Great vid as always 🚀
Thanks, yes i agree it's getting there - i'm just not sure (without a lot more abstraction) that beginners are ever going to find it easy.
@@jamiewp this is also my fear. Im hoping a lot of changes happen in the next few releases otherwise we risk losing people to the competition.
Good idea I would have appreciated that 5 years ago, but now I learned to love it. It's like that first car you buy yourself with your parent's blessing; I would have wanted a Mustang, but all I got was a Fiat 124 Sport two-door edition 1973, and back then, I learned to appreciate them for what it is-simple, wonderful.
Cool car!
I've been working with WP for years and like the block themes idea but always get lost in designs, Making it easier to navigate and more logical with and option to go deeper into the technicals is ideal.
Yup, feels like a nice bridge from the old to the new.
Totally agree. I’m a front end developer and I’ve built classic themes from scratch a few times. I’m currently creating a replication of an old website using a block theme from scratch and it’s taking me ages. The UI is not very intuitive at all and neither are some of the concepts.
Thanks for that perspective - glad it's not just me.
Great idea, we need more new users and blocks are not easy, even if you know what objects are all about.
thanks Richard
Yes, I think the backend of WP needs a radical change in 2025. I too love block themes. They are becoming a great tool for low/mid-level site builders like me. But frankly the concept is a lot better than the user interface. If it doesn't contain "everything" that the classic theme customizer often does but just has a few basics like headers, footers, menus, page layouts, which then will feed into the site editor files to be edited there if/when wanted, I think it's a great idea. I hope you go ahead and build it as a plugin. It would be better if the entire backend of WP got a user-focused design & functionality reorganization, but just in case that doesn't happen . . . a plugin like this would be great.
to add dynamic content in a classic theme is so much easier with db.php the class $wpdb-> and php-arrays
sprecial php-commands in wordpress for third party (xml curl)
Regarding Classic Themes: they are indeed easier to use. But they also only offer what they are designed for. In your example, the Blocksy theme (I've never tried it out) seems to offer three different designs, two of them with a sidebar. But other themes don't have designs with a sidebar. How you add one in those cases? Mostly impossible, unless you know how to code a custom theme.
Now to Block Themes: I also love the flexibility they give. But I 100% agree that they are not as end-user-friendly as Classic Themes (with their quite limited possibilities). One "easy" things I was surprised is not possible that easily: choose a design for a specific template. Let's say the Block Theme offers a "Single Blog Post with Sidebar" and a "Single Block Post" (without a sidebar) template. Only one of them is the default one and you can't "define" which one to use. You can only copy/paste all block from one of them and overwrite the default one. Or you create a new custom template and set it to be the new default for all single blog posts. Not as intuitive. Your demo looks like a way into a solution, so thanks for the video!
A huge thanks for this video. Coming from a developing background I tried to convert my classic theme into a block theme for years. I've struggled so far with technical issues and in finding the elements and their propeties in the GUI. I'm much faster with a "thought out" style.css or functions.php.
Love your approach and thoughts about usability and UX.
Classic themes is the thing that makes WordPress popular.
true - i love block themes too though!
Yes
The whole - how do you edit the header and footer is a real issue, as for layouts, I think the next wordpress core template should come with a ton of layout options. Not Patterns. Think: Pages, Page No Title, Page with Column, Page with Three Column, Page Full Width, etc. Maybe a guided get started where you choose which templates you want, and then it loads those templates. Patterns are nice for beginners, but they often don't follow style guides, etc, leaving you with an inconsistent site.
I like the idea of combining classic themes and block themes. Because, really - even for a WordPress developer it may be not very obvious how (or where) to change that specific template. The question is, how to make it possible to use template parts from a block theme inside a classic theme?
Very well explained. Getting started with block themes is confusing for beginners (like me). It is not ''intuitive'' and you easily get lost. I prefer block themes however.
Yup I love block themes - but they need to be easier for folks who are just starting out.
This has been a major stumbling block for many of my students and clients as well. It's just not an intuitive UI and UX at the moment. It's a major reason I end up having to create extensive tutorials in my courses. In some cases my clients have given up and have moved to other solutions. WordPress desperately need a radical rethink...and fast!
Hi Michael, good to see you here, and thanks for the insight.
Jamie,
What Block theme would be best for a website I want to generate income from? I will be designing the pages, headers etc myself so not really looking at patterns and templates but more from a long term support point of view.
Is that solution available somewhere?
Not yet, but if this video gets enough likes I'm going to build it!
Yes to blocks, no to block themes. They could have customised the customiser and included fse within that. They tried to create something that would compete with wix, SS, etc, and failed miserably. Ditch FSE, and move on, user stats say it all, classic themes won.
FSE is unusable. No wonder Matt went nuclear on WPE because it took the focus away from HOW BAD THE WORDPRESS UI/UX is! 8 years to get to this point is, well, embarrassing, to say the least.
I thought you might say that David ;) I just want to re-iterate that FSE is great for certain use cases (e.g enterprise clients). I love Block Themes, but I do see an issue with complexity for first time users atm.
the thing about wordpress is they dont take mobile view seriously. Nobody cares about your big and massive header image.lol