The Lies of Eddard Stark (and other people too) - ASOIAF Theories
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Ned thinks “it will be a short regency” because Stannis is already of age
Who's doing construction in the background? 😂
hahahahaha
It sounds as if someone is demolishing a home in the background and it is quite entertaining
The background audio and mic pops are part of the charm
The biggest lie ned told was promising jon to tell him the truth about his mother 😬
@@Nehelenia3000 That was show only.
@@chyawanprash no it's in the books.
@@pyramidion5911 It's not, Ned just thinks about it after shit goes down in Kings Landing and he's in his cell (that he wishes he could see/talk to Jon). He only ever talks directly to Jon with the scene of the dire wolf pups. He never promises Jon he'll talk to him about his mother in the books. Jon even thinks that he should've MADE Ned tell him about his mother before they parted ways, but Ned never said it. It's just something Jon wishes he had done before it was too late.
Ned writing the pink letter is a good theory
The madness in this fandom has me wondering if this is a 5000 IQ take or a meme. I genuinely don't know anymore. Either way I love it.
it's HOW Ned lies that is interesting. In HIS thoughts, we don't get the reasoning really; he just does it. We are inside his head and he STILL doesn't give any warning as to that change. He IS lying to HIMSELF about the things he has done. And when he lies-he does so by NOT thinking about it. Damnit lol-I can say this better. I am so sorry. When Ned lies his thinking changes-how we read his thoughts-THOSE patterns start to change. Some of these characters KNOW that someone is reading their thoughts and they are guarded thoughts that WE are reading. Sansa is MUCH the same in her thinking-her lying. Lie by Omission or by Silence. And LIVE the lie as if it were truth-that means even in your thinking, live the lie even in your thouughts.
Horrible video; too much "ASOIAF theory" not enough jokes
Cersei lies to Mace Tyrell about having already named Gyles Rosby master of coin.
Arguably not nefarious since it was in her eyes to defend herself against the Tyrells
@@Treepuncher1211 Littlefinger claims Shireen is Patchface's bastard to defend the Lannister claim. Definitely some terrible people tell lies for similar benefit.
Hodor
Asoif brainrot is my brainfood
A really interesting follow-up to this video would be a "Why?" video, where you treated the plot of The Way of Cross and Dragon as if it were clues towards ASOIAF's ending.
There is a connection to be made to Tyrion's "stories" speech at the end of the Bad Dragon show and that novella that almost makes that ending less frustrating.
Elden Ring has all the spoilers for the history
Hodor
Hodor.
Hodor?
like this a lot. History doesn’t repeat but it rhymes. It also adds to my long held theory that Ned is not the man we all think he is.
There is so much information given in this tiny scene of Ned lying. GRRM shows us Ned’s “tells” when he lies (He préfères to use omission than straight up lying) and it also shows us WHY he lies. It is then up to the reader to find other “rhythms”.
The true nature of Ned’s lie of omission is that he is trying to hide the fact that he found out that Cersei’s children were fathered by her brother Jamie. He thinks he is protecting Cersei from certain DEATH if it is found out.
Here is rhyme I found years ago and this is a variation of the same theme I never realized .
Ned is lying about Jon’s birth. It is a lie within a lie and the only thing that keeps it from being found out is that he absolutely refuses to discuss it with anyone, not his wife nor his very best friend in the world Robert.
It is the same lie he wrote in Roberts will (it rhymes) but since this happened earlier he was able to “tweak” the lie in Robert’s will in order to save the mother whereas the original he was not able to save because he killed the mother, Lyanna.
I have said this for years B+L=J: Benjen+Lyanna=Jon
This is why Jon looks more Stark than the Stark children because is is 100% Stark.
There are scenarios that point to this. The first is Ned killing Lady. After Ned kills Lady he uses his limited resources of men to escort her bones back to Winterfell to be buried in the crypts. There is a similar story that rhymes with this… Ned makes sure that another “lady” of Winterfell’s bones are transported back to be buried in the crypts … his sister Lyanna, even though women were not buried in the crypt.
One of the very first scenes was Ned coming upon a pregnant female direwolf that had been killed by a stag. Pregnant female direwolf = Lyanna was killed BECAUSE of a Stag=Robert Baratheon . Ned killed Lyanna because she was betrothed to Robert and this pregnancy would shame their family. I think Ned killed Lyanna and sent Benjen to the wall where he would never be able to inherit Winterfell nor have children.
The first mention of fatherhood was between Benjen and Jon.
The scene with the dead direwolf also showed us Ned’s reaction … he immediately wanted to kill the pups. I think he wanted to kill Jon. In fact, I think that Ned had killed Lyanna and she momentarily resurrected and said “promise me Ned” not to kill the baby. This is why he made sure to bury her in the crypt to her her spirit trapped.
Ned’s reticence regarding writing Robert’s will is because of his own actions not the lie itself. Something happened so shocking that is why he tries to avoid it with Cersei and with killing Daenerys as a child. What connects all three of these stories , they are children born from brothers with sisters.
That bit made me laugh my ass off the second time around… what I mean to say is, Hodor
Algormancy!
Hodor
Hodor
There is one more lie or rather emittance of truth on Ned’s behalf that we will discover by the end of the books which is central in order to understand one of the main POVs and the series in general. As big of a bomb as RLJ.
There is a reason why GRRM has mentioned that Ned’s memories of Tower of Joy are not completely accurate. That is because he has repressed the memories of those events and days so far into his subconscious that he is telling himself a lie about truly happened there.
One clue I will give you - the confrontation with Arthur Dayne and other Kingsguards had nothing to do with Jon or Lyanna at all. I will leave it at that.
Ned is the one who strangled Lyanna. When he thinks about what happened he remembers talking to Lyanna "Promise me Ned.." then all of a sudden he is holding her and she is dead. I doubt Grrm is hiding dialogue for the sake of the story, it's just Ned really does not remember. He was warged into by his own brother from the depths of Winterfell to silence Lyanna before she tells Ned what has happened. That's why Ned decides to fake his own death with the help of his old colleagues, The Faceless Men and stop the Nights King.
@@pyramidion5911 yes, totally what I was implying 😁
jon had to lie to join wildlings?
He lied about wanting to be one of them. Qhorin had to command him to go undercover with the wildlings.
If Dany is a dragon seed like some believe and Jon finds out he’ll need to lie but if Dany goes mad then maybe he’ll have another crisis
Not watched it all yet so maybe it gets mentioned but my favourite lying Ned moment is when he accidentally calls the guy who everyone is supposed to believe kidnapped and did horrible things to his sister 'the finest knight I have ever known'
Ned thinks of Rhaegar like 3 times throughout A Game of Thrones, and not once was the thought negative.
@@justdirt caught in 4k 📸
@@justdirt always found it interesting that he mentions that he hasn't thought about Rhaegar in years while raising his son, coupled with the fact that he feels growing guilt about Lyanna while also trying to save Danny the whole time and really obsessing over her safety the whole book. Couple that with the fact that Rhaegar was expecting a daughter, not a son.
Lyin’ Ned?
23:49 💀💀💀 as soon as you guys mentioned door guard that only says the truth ik where yall were going and didn’t even expect it.
Ludo is permanently on my arm 😭 this hits. I also gotta find the video where you guys talk about the Holy Grail 🤣🤣 another of my favs
OHHHH THIS IS THE VIDEO MY MOM WAS TELLING ME ABOUT HOLY SHIT
I like the part where Tyrion was telling extra truths from his trial at the Eyrie… instead of the ending happening w a lie to kind of smooth everything over.. we could have someone telling the extreme truths of what happened so history STOPS repeating itself the way that it has been throughout this world..? This was great
Rhllor isn’t a god just a single soul that uses Fire instead of Weirwood.
What do you mean that Ned lies about Jon being his son? Next, you’ll tell us Laenor didn’t father Jace, Luke, and Joffrey, after he strongly defended his paternity.
why is it better to kill a thousand men on the battlefield than a dozen at dinner? Well, Tywin, people who show up for a battle KNOW they're likely going to die. They've prepared their minds and souls for it. Also, soldiers are armed and have the opportunity to defend themselves, surrender, or even run away, rather than die. Or they could win. Death at dinner is cowardly, despicable act because they have no other option but to die.
The theory Cersei accidently poisoned Joffery always seemed too far fetch to me. But if Cersei never thinks she has never done anything wrong. If she is able to lie so completely to dissociate in her mind, then maybe.... Tyrion was obviously the intended target. So in her crazy mind it would be Tyrion's fault.
Littlefinger has been trying to get Tyrion killed from the start. Perhaps at Cersei's insistence. I don't think the Tyrells would kill Joffery until Margaery was with child.
What's your thought on Littlefinger telling Sansa about her hairpiece and Olenna being the one to fix it? I have many issues with it myself, but like how would he know to mention it to Sansa has always irritated me. Based on what we know of the poison it would have been the cream not the drink that had it, it was just an annoying GRRM thing that's made it so multiple theories are all so valid still, like the catspaw even though he outright told us what happened.
@@Elliot226 From what I remember Littlefinger didn't tell Sansa anything. Sansa reached her own conclusion and Littlefinger neither confirmed or denied it. Presumably it suited Littlefinger to appear as having a hand in it to look in control and powerful.
Hodor
the Question of why is it better to kill men in Battle than at Dinner? His mom was at the dinner-ladies in waiting and kids etc. it isn't a Battle-it was a Wedding and they were not prepared. Think 'Trolly Problem' and then go at it. It was WRONG on EVERY level lol..and it was MURDER most foul.
I love the Children of the Florists call back, completely stopped everything I was doing to fully take in my enjoyment.
Luckily, the algorithm pushed the videos in appropriate order as I'm new with like 7 days here
Another great video
Hodor
Hodor
Hodor(that bit was for me). ;-)
"IP Specific Cover Songs"? The word you're looking for is filk, and legit I would K I L L for y'all to put out some ASoIaF filk.
The books are only just too new to have missed the golden age of filk in the late 70's/80's (tho I am pretty sure I've heard vintage 1000 Worlds filk, those were his more popular books at the time).
Related:
It is sorta weird these days to remember all this was initially just George's Dark Tower series: ie a famous genre writer (GRR: scifi, Steve: horror) making a weird (not bad, just off-normal) digression into fantasy and half accidentally ended up making their magnum opus.
Maybe if we remind George that King managed to twist the story's backbone time travel into an excuse to do full editorial rewrites that keep both version canon, he'd actually publish Winds.
It's okay if it's not perfect yet, Bran and you can do another pass of it later if you have to, just finish this run first.
Maybe George needs a traffic accident to pull him out of his spiral... That's what got King out of his plot paralysis. //snort//
I was gonna make a joke about how if he has a drug problem it can't be cocaine or he's accomplish more, but when giving him credit for what he's actually accomplished versus what we WISH he's accomplished... Iunno, cocaine would explain a lot actually? He really has been pumping out work, it's just none of it Winds. lol (Respectfully? I don't think self-medicating is any less moral or more worthy of judgment than my physician-medicated equivilent. This joke is entirely based on the tinfoil-craving unexpected legitimate parallels George of the RR and King of the Steve's with their digression into fantasy epics, and then making a bit of conspiracy theorizing potential other ways they might mirror, no moral judgments on either party.)
I definitely don't think Ned is a good person even though he's by far better than most of the royal family clowns... he still blindly obeys... such as hacking the dudes head off at the beginning of the story (without hearing the dude out) because it's the law of the land.
Hodor 😂
Mel lying to stannis to get Shereen burned when she glamours mance as Davos.
Baller
Hodor…
Hodor? Hodor.
Hodoooooor
Gendry was told to lie about who he is to Jon and doesn’t.
Sansa lies to save Littlefinger.
Elric Storm….. recognized or legitimized?
Also, Michael is here!
Also Duke is here!
You guys should let Duke talk more!
Pls pls add some loose chapter shortcuts
Who was beat to death at the 7th minute?
23:29 hodor (lie)
Hodor
1:15 lies begin
Hodor 😂😂😂
Hodor
Hodor
Hodor
Hodor
hodor
Hodor
Hodor
Hodor
I think Ned's lies are the most important to the story/moral/theme. He became a martyr and is immortalized on a pedestal.
I think George originally intended for Ned to actually be scheming for the throne for *someone*. Jon, Stannis or whoever. He is in such a clear position to obviously be up to something. The early drafts that were made public seem to indicate Ned being a different kind of person.
Maybe the North really does remember, and Ned knows (or is influenced by 3 eyed raven) dragons will be really helpful next winter. But, if he was planning something from the start he would not let Jon join the Night's Watch. Unless Jon is actually his son or he planned to someone else to take the throne.
I think George decided for whatever reason decided to make Ned a super good guy. But the set up was still left in place. In the early draft there was an editor note telling George to write Ned differently. Something about Ned's uncouth language that sounded rather more like Robert than Ned.
I'm too deep in the Jon is Ned's son rabbit hole. Young Griff is Lyanna's son.
Hodor for the bit Hodor
Hodor? Hodor.
I think the lie might be “She was mad”
I like this a lot. History doesn’t repeat but it rhymes. It also adds to my long held theory that Ned is not the man we all think he is.
There is so much information given in this tiny scene of Ned lying. GRRM shows us Ned’s “tells” when he lies (He préfères to use omission than straight up lying) and it also shows us WHY he lies. It is then up to the reader to find other “rhythms”.
The true nature of Ned’s lie of omission is that he is trying to hide the fact that he found out that Cersei’s children were fathered by her brother Jamie. He thinks he is protecting Cersei from certain DEATH if it is found out.
Here is rhyme I found years ago and this is a variation of the same theme I never realized .
Ned is lying about Jon’s birth. It is a lie within a lie and the only thing that keeps it from being found out is that he absolutely refuses to discuss it with anyone, not his wife nor his very best friend in the world Robert.
It is the same lie he wrote in Roberts will (it rhymes) but since this happened earlier he was able to “tweak” the lie in Robert’s will in order to save the mother whereas the original he was not able to save because he killed the mother, Lyanna.
I have said this for years B+L=J: Benjen+Lyanna=Jon
This is why Jon looks more Stark than the Stark children because is is 100% Stark.
There are scenarios that point to this. The first is Ned killing Lady. After Ned kills Lady he uses his limited resources of men to escort her bones back to Winterfell to be buried in the crypts. There is a similar story that rhymes with this… Ned makes sure that another “lady” of Winterfell’s bones are transported back to be buried in the crypts … his sister Lyanna, even though women were not buried in the crypt.
One of the very first scenes was Ned coming upon a pregnant female direwolf that had been killed by a stag. Pregnant female direwolf = Lyanna was killed BECAUSE of a Stag=Robert Baratheon . Ned killed Lyanna because she was betrothed to Robert and this pregnancy would shame their family. I think Ned killed Lyanna and sent Benjen to the wall where he would never be able to inherit Winterfell nor have children.
The first mention of fatherhood was between Benjen and Jon.
The scene with the dead direwolf also showed us Ned’s reaction … he immediately wanted to kill the pups. I think he wanted to kill Jon. In fact, I think that Ned had killed Lyanna and she momentarily resurrected and said “promise me Ned” not to kill the baby. This is why he made sure to bury her in the crypt to her her spirit trapped.
Ned’s reticence regarding writing Robert’s will is because of his own actions not the lie itself. Something happened so shocking that is why he tries to avoid it with Cersei and with killing Daenerys as a child. What connects all three of these stories , they are children born from brothers with sisters.
I really don't think Ned would kinslay his sister. The rest is quite interesting to consider. And we see that the one thing Ned will never do is kill children, so I don't think even if Jon was an incest baby that he would ever have had any desire to kill him. Ned has an undying love for Lyanna. At worst he ended her suffering from whatever mortal wound she already had (be it childbirth or a battle wound). But he wouldn't outright murder her.
Ned's also the last person to pretty much reluctantly agree that killing the direwolf pups would be better than them suffering and starving to death, it wasn't immediate (that was Theon and Hullen).
He brought Lyanna home because that's where she wanted to be laid to rest. If he wanted to trap her, he would've just left her at the tower with the others he didn't bother to bring home so her spirit could never rest.
Also the first mention of fatherhood is about Ned to Jon and the other boys when he says "let's see what mischief my sons have gotten into now" (or some such, paraphrasing). Not saying that means anything but that it was the actual first time it's mentioned in the books.
But I think it's an interesting concept since we don't know why Benjen was sent to the wall or if he went willingly. But Ned at least accepts him back in Winterfell, so it can't be THAT egregious or Benjen wouldn't be the Night's Watch representative or there to visit.
There is a reason why he never told Cat about R=L=J, Cat will blab... and the Lannister's would send the Mountain to crush John's head.
I wish anyone would recognize all the foreshadowing that Grrm has laid out to suggest Ned is a faceless man. It seems the lessons Syrio Forel teaches Arya have been completely lost on the fan base.
@@pyramidion5911 Could you elaborate? I've seen no evidence for this but it may be that I've never thought to look at it from that angle. What evidence is there? Genuine question!
Could you elaborate/ give examples of this?
Ned has surpassed the Faceless Men to join the ranks of the Headless Men.
I think the biggest "lie being set up" alyene (sansa i lnow i butchered the spelling) basically being second in command in the vale going out of her way to set up the tourney to seduce harry the heir while lyijg about who she is how her aunt died and whats going go happen. Not to mention all the lying she had to do to survive kings landing. I remember hating sansa my first read through but now. . . i respect the hell out of what she's had to do to survive. 🫡 Sansa