Here are my thoughts after many listening sessions with both headphones (Audeze LCD-2) and my editing suite monitors (Yamaha HS80M). I do not consider myself an audiophile. My background is in electrical engineering, and I am a professional video editor and producer for broadcast, and feel most comfortable around pro audio gear and not high-end hifi: Electro-Harmonix: Smooth midbass. Silky and airy high end with a wide sound stage. The cymbals seem slightly more forward. My favorite quad of the 4. Tung-Sol: Authoritative and noticeably stronger and punchier bass. The music has more impact. Anchors the midbass in center stage. The Tung-Sol sounds different than the other tubes by bass response alone. My 2nd favorite. Sylvania: They sound similar to the stock Freya tubes. Slightly more laid back, with a wide stage (but not as wide as the Electro-Harmonix). Slightly more forward midrange compared to Electro-Harmonix. My 3rd favorite. Stock Freya: If I had to characterize these tubes, I would say they are the most subdued of the 4. It seems like the instruments and vocals are pushed back a bit. Not bad though. Regardless of my ranking, the differences are SUBTLE...really SUBTLE, except in the case of the Tung-Sol which really did seem to have noticeably more bass impact than the others. But again, it's not a great difference, and without this comparison, I doubt I'd be able to tell the brand in a blind listening test. However, for my ears, I love the airy, silky smooth sound of the Electro-Harmonix the best.
Yep a classic pair of NOS 1957-vintage 5692s...60 year old tubes that never cease to amaze me with their sonics. It will be interesting to see how the 5692s match up with the high-end new production tubes from China. The Shuguang Treasures are incredible sounding, but I haven't done a straight comparison yet (still breaking them in). Stay tuned.
I have no idea how you would do this seamless transition between tubes. Impressive, to me at least. I agree with your evaluation of the rather punchy bass of the Tung Sol and the creaminess of the Electroharmonox midbass. I can't really determine anything re soundstaging -- using Grado SR125 headphones & FXDAC X6. And I always wonder "What about different type of music?" in these comparisons. Anyhow thx so much for posting this!
Wow! That was a pretty cool video, loved how seamless the transitions were. It really allowed for one to hear the detailed differences between the different tubes.
Tung Sol for sure! Sounded so open and free. And could better hear the space between the instruments and vocals. The Sylvania's were last place in my opinion, sounded like the song was placed in a big pot and stirred together, was harder to differentiate the sources.
Thanks. To my ears, the Tung-Sols stood out followed by Sylvania. The stock 6H8C seemed the least engaging. The fact that the 6SN7 can offer enough gain with a mu of only 20 is a testament to this wonderful tube.
Certainly this video deserves my congratulations. It give us a lot of information about Freya. But I'd like to propose a diffrent procedure of sound recording: Transducers (mics and speakers) are the weakest links in sound reproduction. What we hear in this video is mostly the mic and speakers. And then we try to "guess" the sonic charachter of the preamp. I 'd propose to record sound directly from the pre output to the recording device. Of cource it isn't perfect method too, because we could not test the driving capability to the next stage (power amp). But I thing it is much closer to the preamp itself.
Thanks for the compliments and feedback. I think my reply to Simon Chan last month partially answers some of my reasoning to "live mic" record the listening sessions, vs. capturing the line out from the Freya preamp. Others may share a different opinion, but I believe that the interaction of the speakers within a listening space play a big role in the listener's perception of the soundstage. As a practical example, I use an Audeze LCD-2 planar magnetic headphone for critical listening in my profession as a video producer and editor. The LCD-2s are very revealing and are great for picking out details. But as for soundstage, there is none (in my opinion)...it all seems to collapse around my left and right ear. Contrast this with listening to my 2-channel stereo, and I can close my eyes and virtually point to individual instruments in the song - the soundstage is present. These listening tests are an attempt to share what I hear sitting in my listening room.
Really well done, I like the idea of changing out the four tubes in this demo vs only two in your other videos because I can clearly hear the difference between four tube rolling and not always with two tube rolling. For me I really liked the sound of the Electro Harmonics.
I love these videos Tyco Dogg keep them coming! I have just bought a Freya and based on these videos, I have purchased two sets of quads. The Tung sol 6sn7gtb and the Electro-Harmonix 6sn7. Although on the RUclips video i couldn’t hear a great deal of difference as I was playing it on my mobile device but in real life I tend to agree with the comments made. I am running an aries mini into a chord hugo, to the freya, then into biamped solid state power amplifiers into a series 1 pair of bowers and wilkins 703s. The tung sols sound very dynamic, fast and focused with an almost solid state sound and the Electro-Harmonix have a very spacious feel to them, very airy and articulate. The highs pop out more on some bits of music, I find. They almost sound like there is a very tiny reverb effect which I feel that I like most of the time for most songs. In actual fact. My favourite setup is to have the tung sols on the left side and the Electro-Harmonix on the voltage gain side. I hate to admit it but I feel like i get the best of both worlds this way and neither of the two are too overpowering in the way they change the way the music sounds. Does anyone else have different branded sets of pairs that they are using with their tube pre?
I have actually moved the Electro-Harmonix to the left and tung sols to the right and got a different sound yet again. This way I feel i get more of an Electro Harmonix spaciousness vs having them the other way around.
Hi Steve, thanks for your insight and kind words! My findings between the new production Tung Sols and the Electro-Harmonix are similar to yours. I found my quad set of Tung Sols to be very close in sound to the JFET solid state mode on the Freya (as evidenced by my other video comparing the two), with good bass response, while the Electro-Harmonix had a great "airy" and expansive sound in the upper frequency range. To get the most benefit from my listening tests, I highly recommend all listeners use a GOOD set of pro sound monitors and a USB audio interface, with balanced lines connecting the two.
The great thing about RUclips is that anyone can post a video and/or comment about an infinite number of topics. Our channel is nothing more than me sharing my thoughts about my particular audio system. Everyone is free to watch them or not. I'm not selling anything, and everything you see in my videos, I purchased retail. As mentioned previously, in my day job I'm a professional in the broadcast industry. It's part of my job to acquire live content (video and audio), edit and process it in a manner that is compliant with professional broadcast standards. In other words, capture footage and sound in the highest fidelity possible. Some of that workflow, as well as the same pro-level gear creates the videos on our channel. I'm not an audiophile, nor do I consider myself one. I am a person who works with professional audio and video production gear on a daily basis, and have done so for over a dozen years.
i can notice a difference in my gear for certain, both ear tests and playback of recorded audio. Not all tubes have a unique voicing, many tubes are identical though with different brands, especially new production. a 1950 Sylvania 6sn7 will sound very different in a treated room than a JJ. In an untreated room, maybe not so much. fun to play with though regardless, definitely adds a lot of enjoyment to the hobby
I just found this video comparison. Thanks so much for doing this! I'm going to add a tube preamp to my system within the next 12 months...likely the Freya+! I just listened with some Beats headphones through my Samsung connected to a HIDIZS S3p Pro. Next, I'll relisten this week running from optical out of my cable box to a NAD C658 optical in. The NAD C658 feeds signal to a PS Audio S300 driving a pair of Klipsch R51m's along with an SVS SB1000pro.
Just cut out the stock. To me the tung sol was warm with a nice balance of lushness without overdoing it. The electro-harmonix was darker but only by a hair and the sylvania had highs, I wanna say airy highs. I'd say if I was going to get tubes for a freya that the tung-sol and sylvania would be must owns and electro-harmonix if you like a darker sound then what the tung-sol was doing.
E-H was the best among these tubes. More rich sound. I scrolled down and listened blind until I heard a difference. Then scrolled up to get to know. It wins in the second of your videos I've seen.
For me, it's a toss up between the Tung Sol's and the Electro - Harmonics. The E-H's seem to have a little more top end. Both have better bass than the others.
This is an interesting choice of music cause it sounds like the singer is behind the listener which I haven't experienced before. Very interesting though!
I think it's a tie between the Electro and Tung-Sol. The Sylvania a very close second (maybe best) and the Freya last. The Freya just seemed to lack the top end and bass was too soft. (all of this from my computer speakers)....LOL
I love the sound of the EH tubes for new production. I don't know if it's a brand thing, or if it's due to my EHs being "platinum matched" as a quad. This means not only are the tubes tested to match each other, but within each tube the dual triodes are balanced. The Sylvanias have a smooth midrange which I like. They have more of a laid back sound to me.
Hi Tyco, I really enjoy listening to your comparisons. I wanted to ask, would you consider discussing your equipment? Im wondering if your ultracurve has input/output output upgrades or whether it is stock? Your videos sound great.
Thanks Enrique! I will be doing a System Walkthrough video in the near future, but I want to wait until I've finished some upgrades, which includes a new charge-coupled crossover network for my JBL 4343 monitors that I am building. This requires me to rewire the speakers internally. I am also replacing my Behringer active 3-way crossover with a MiniDSP 4x10 to handle crossover, phase and EQ duties via DSP. And finally, I'm building sound absorption panels to help minimize room modes in my listening space. Lot's of work to do! Regarding my Ultracurve, it is completely stock and is not setup to do any processing at the moment (this will be handled by the MiniDSP once dialed in). I think running the system fully balanced is what's really helping with the noise floor and overall dynamics.
I hope you realize the Tung Sol and EH tubes are the same, same factory, grids, plate, cathode. They are New Sensor Tubes. The Sylvania was the winner with the best detail.
I am listening now with speakers and i can hear the difference.I could not hear it with headphones.Tung-Sol sounds bit more brighter than Electro Harmonix,but Electro Harmonix has better bass.
tung-sol has overall better sound to me, keeps up with the dynamic swings. I hear the Electro Harmonix typical slightly congested sound. The others are very similar, just OK.
This is so impressive. Thank you for doing this. Which Dac did you go with to pair these with for your todays listening? I'm thinking the Gungnir is the perfect match?
Thanks megazine! I think the Gungnir is the perfect match. I went with the Focusrite 2i2 for the portability with my Microsoft Surface tablet, which is my audio source.
That's awesome! Yeah he's 2 years old, De El Tumi bloodlines. I had my first Dogo 20 years ago and only a very few people recognized the breed. We never saw another Dogo in person. Now, more people recognize the breed, and we've seen 1 other Dogo in person. Great dogs. You can see more of my dog in the Tung-Sol listening test video. ruclips.net/video/oHtYLc40DC0/видео.html
How much difference we get from different tubes depends a lot on the amp/preamp. Design. I’ve had components that give very little difference and others where the difference is obvious. One caveat ... it’s never night and day as how some say. Never that great. Audible yes.
listen only with headphones ath-40mx direct to my laptop, the only one that sound diferent was the tung-sol for good, was a stronger sound whit more impact
Thanks for the test, Tyco. For some reason, I could not hear any difference between the tubes. My system is : Music Hall Dac 25.3 > Mark Levinson 27.5 amp > KEF LS50 speaker. My cables are Audioquest cable exclusively. For some reason, my system does not display any difference. Let me know if you have any idea why.
Hi Viet, the differences for me are subtle, so I wouldn't be surprised if one cannot hear any difference. What helps me is to listen to the same song over and over and try to focus on individual instruments in the mix. The bass guitar is a good instrument to try to isolate and focus on. Sometimes you can hear a more rounded, full note vs a note that lacks any punch or deep impact.
#1 Stock (the best balance from top to bottom, the least amount of sibilance) #2 Sylvania (good balance, midrange oriented, but a bit too bright on vocals) #3 Tung Sol (initially most impressive but too bright) #4 Electro-Harmonix (a mess, smearing of the sound, bright) I dont know. :). I could live with the top three but probably not the EH tubes.
Hi Nae. I will agree with you that the stock Freya tubes (which are most likely Russian 6H8Cs) don't sound anywhere near as bad as many say, who have heard them in the Freya. They seems to have a slightly laid back, recessed sound to my ears in the midrange, and perhaps this is what many people equate as the "signature tube sound". As for the system frequency response, I think running pink noise through the system and doing correction through the Behringer Ultracurve Pro would be a great subject for an upcoming video. I do have a Behringer ECM8000 calibration mic that I can use. Of the JBL 4343 frequency response curves I've seen, they don't start to rolloff until 40Hz and their 15" sub enclosure is port tuned to 30Hz if I remember correctly.
I could only tell the difference a better one with Electro Harmonix , rest feel similar or i cannot pick , will take help of my 11 yer old son , as kids can listen to better mid high freq details,
I like the sylvania tubes the best. I'm listening to this on schiit bifrost, lyr, and HE-560. The recording also seems a bit weird as its very hot as in the treble is quite prevalent. I tend to prefer a warmer sound which is probably why I like the sylvania better.
To each their own, the electro harmonix were among my lease favorite. Although I did like the Tung Sol. Really though, the differences are quite small in all honesty, at least from this video.
the stock tubes are actually really good. i use the 68hc on the right side of the freya and EH on the left. best combination i've heard and i have tung sold, sylvania, and Raytheon. saying the stock tubes suck , is not a constructive or helpful opinion. it depends on the complete system.
To me the Freya is just too low fi to really tell much. I feel it has a low end sound that some in the video world would say a Screen door effect only in Audio Quality! Look at it like this - The freya is a 480p picture as to say a good used Prima Luna 100 only costing around $1400 is more like a 1080p picture! Freya+ not much better and I think having the XLR on Freya does make it worth the $899 but not a Dime more and your better off with something at a tiny more cost....
Well one things for sure, I'm not ordering my Freya with stocks. It's close for all the others. the Tungs were great (and can be ordered as upgrades from Schitt). the Sylvania was the least "tube like" for me, but also sound great. The electro's are close to the Syl's for the same reason. Tungs for me. BTW this is my first hearing of tubes. make of that what you will, but to a tube noobie thats what I heard.
quick question, why is it necessary to go through the reproductive chain? i.e. your electronic crossovers, amps, speakers, subs and your mic? would it be possible to just record the output straight from the pre? also, what do you think about the sound differences of the pre in the passive and FET mode compared to the tube? Thanks!
Good question. Originally, my videos were simply a way for me to hear if different tubes sounded different to me within my own stereo system. I wanted to prove to myself if the "rolling tubes" hype was real. What I have discovered for myself (others may differ and hear something else, and that's totally fine), is that tubes do indeed have an effect on the sound of music coming out of my stereo system - but the effect is subtle and I can only hear these differences when doing an A/B comparison like these videos. If someone were to swap the tubes and I had to identify which brand based on the sound, I feel that would be an impossible task for me. They all sound good when judged solo. So back to the question: why use microphones and not simply capture the preamp signal output. The reason why is because I've noticed that my room plays a big part in hearing soundstage differences. For example, in my first video and my latest video, I positioned the microphones farther away from the speakers, roughly at the distance of my listening position. The differences in sound between tubes became more apparent. With the other videos, I cut the distance between speaker and mic in half (putting the mics closer to the speakers). When I did that, the differences in tube sound became less apparent to me, to the point that I couldn't really hear an appreciable difference. This seems to correlate with me preferring to use headphones to hear detail in music, and my studio monitors to hear the soundstage. Again, others may hear things differently and have a different opinion...this is just my opinion.
thank you for your reply! I never realize that the differences get bigger as you go further down the chain and even as the direct sound interacts with the room would compounds the effect of a small change (this case different tubes) at the front (YMMV). something like that? Me too, I like using my headphone when trying to hear differences in detail say, different versions of a recording. Thanks for your videos!
Funny to watch this on a cell phone using the speaker option without headphones. I suppose if I smoke a spliff I might hear the differences..... kinda dumb to think we can hear this stuff.
have you had any tubes go bad on you? my stock 6H8C started making a loud crackling sound in my speakers... (which goes away when I pull the tubes)... Going to order some EH
Yes, I had some JJs that did something similar. I turned off my amps and watched the signal meters on the Behringer processor hit full scale. Needless to say, I don't use them in my system anymore. I don't blame JJ, just a bad tube or two that got through QC.
The schiit Freya is a Pre-amp does it change the sound that much making it worth tube rolling? shouldn't a pre-amp not colour the sound? I thought that was for the power/main amplifier is for. From the information I gathered around the Net changing a power tube amp/integrated tube amp's power tubes will make the biggest difference.
You may be correct in that a tube power amp contributes more to the "tube sound" than a tube preamp. I wouldn't know, however, because I don't run tube power amps in my system. I can only speak for the system I'm currently running, and I can definitively say that different tubes in the preamp stage do add subtle changes to the sound. Even with RUclips compression in this 4K video (which isn't as bad as some people make it out to be), you can hear the slight differences *if* your playback system is capable. For folks that do not want their preamp to color the sound with tubes, there's always the Passive and JFET stages in the Freya. You have 3 choices with the Freya, and I like that with the Freya design.
Just found this video from Paul McGowan (CEO of PS Audio) that talks about tube front-ends making the most impact vs tubes in the power stage: ruclips.net/video/TJR8tEYORzg/видео.html
Soulfire Audio: I actually ordered one of these a month ago. Still waiting. I think that the preamp is where you want to do all of your fiddling with such things, and the power amp should be absolutely transparent. This is why I ordered the Freya, as I have a, soon to be two since I have Magnepans, Benchmark AHB2 amp. Just slightly beyond AMAZING. I also have a Schitt Loki equalizer, which will go before the Freya, which is indispensable for a living room full of overstuffed furniture.
Check the internet for vintage tube vendors, like Upscale Audio or reputable eBay sellers. Make sure you only buy tested tubes that come with a printout of the test results, and especially have them tested for microphony.
ok so I'm on my first listen here and the stock lyr tubes sound good. Also on on a random note the rest of this song sounds good but most of it is muddled
With this particular group of tubes, I agree. However, I wonder if it's because the E-Hs were the only tubes in the group that were "platinum matched" when I purchased them - meaning each tube was tested for both microphonics and balanced/matching triode specs.
It's quite deceptive to compare a low quality/RUclips rendering of sound with the actual live output from the components depicted. If you are using such a low resolution audio format for reproducing the original output and then using that for comparison there is no reason to go beyond mid-fi equipment much less compare tubes!! Please ignore this demonstration as an interesting but futile attempt. High quality sound differences are demonstrable typically from high quality sound sources and this is not. And yes I have often heard, in blind tests obvious differences between components, tubes and cables!!
I believe the stock tubes that come with the Freya are NOS Soviet tubes, and if one gets a good quad set there's no reason why they should not sound perfectly adequate. Other Freya owners may have a different experience, and I believe that could be due to having one or more tubes that don't test well as far as microphonics, transconductance, etc. Or simply "expectation bias," where someone expects the stock tubes to be worse sounding than anything else. My stock tubes sounded fine to me. Not the best, but certainly they didn't suck.
Hi Cao, can you describe the system you are using to listen to this video? As I mentioned in a previous comment, the differences are very subtle in my opinion. Even with me using my Yamaha studio monitors, Audeze headphones and a Focusrite audio interface, I have to listen carefully to hear the differences.
Here are my thoughts after many listening sessions with both headphones (Audeze LCD-2) and my editing suite monitors (Yamaha HS80M). I do not consider myself an audiophile. My background is in electrical engineering, and I am a professional video editor and producer for broadcast, and feel most comfortable around pro audio gear and not high-end hifi:
Electro-Harmonix: Smooth midbass. Silky and airy high end with a wide sound stage. The cymbals seem slightly more forward. My favorite quad of the 4.
Tung-Sol: Authoritative and noticeably stronger and punchier bass. The music has more impact. Anchors the midbass in center stage. The Tung-Sol sounds different than the other tubes by bass response alone. My 2nd favorite.
Sylvania: They sound similar to the stock Freya tubes. Slightly more laid back, with a wide stage (but not as wide as the Electro-Harmonix). Slightly more forward midrange compared to Electro-Harmonix. My 3rd favorite.
Stock Freya: If I had to characterize these tubes, I would say they are the most subdued of the 4. It seems like the instruments and vocals are pushed back a bit. Not bad though.
Regardless of my ranking, the differences are SUBTLE...really SUBTLE, except in the case of the Tung-Sol which really did seem to have noticeably more bass impact than the others. But again, it's not a great difference, and without this comparison, I doubt I'd be able to tell the brand in a blind listening test. However, for my ears, I love the airy, silky smooth sound of the Electro-Harmonix the best.
Thank you for doing the video!
CulinaryGod thank you! More tube comparisons with Shuguang, PSVANE, CBS Hytrons and more coming soon!
OOO those CBS Hytrons are the good stuff! I had a pair of those in my previous pre and it was glorious. Looking forward to it!
Yep a classic pair of NOS 1957-vintage 5692s...60 year old tubes that never cease to amaze me with their sonics. It will be interesting to see how the 5692s match up with the high-end new production tubes from China. The Shuguang Treasures are incredible sounding, but I haven't done a straight comparison yet (still breaking them in). Stay tuned.
I have no idea how you would do this seamless transition between tubes. Impressive, to me at least. I agree with your evaluation of the rather punchy bass of the Tung Sol and the creaminess of the Electroharmonox midbass. I can't really determine anything re soundstaging -- using Grado SR125 headphones & FXDAC X6. And I always wonder "What about different type of music?" in these comparisons. Anyhow thx so much for posting this!
this is the best example of tube rolling that I've ever seen, thank you very much for this experience
Tung sol is thick and warm and defined. I like.
Wow!
That was a pretty cool video, loved how seamless the transitions were. It really allowed for one to hear the detailed differences between the different tubes.
i'm attributing my "discovery" of Brand New Heavies to you - i can't get enough of that song... thanks!
Tung-Sol was my favorite! Great video!!
Tung Sol for sure! Sounded so open and free. And could better hear the space between the instruments and vocals. The Sylvania's were last place in my opinion, sounded like the song was placed in a big pot and stirred together, was harder to differentiate the sources.
I have to completely agree with you Jeremy. But the Electro-Harmonix we're pretty good as well in my opinion.
Thanks. To my ears, the Tung-Sols stood out followed by Sylvania. The stock 6H8C seemed the least engaging. The fact that the 6SN7 can offer enough gain with a mu of only 20 is a testament to this wonderful tube.
Certainly this video deserves my congratulations. It give us a lot of information about Freya. But I'd like to propose a diffrent procedure of sound recording: Transducers (mics and speakers) are the weakest links in sound reproduction. What we hear in this video is mostly the mic and speakers. And then we try to "guess" the sonic charachter of the preamp. I 'd propose to record sound directly from the pre output to the recording device. Of cource it isn't perfect method too, because we could not test the driving capability to the next stage (power amp). But I thing it is much closer to the preamp itself.
Thanks for the compliments and feedback. I think my reply to Simon Chan last month partially answers some of my reasoning to "live mic" record the listening sessions, vs. capturing the line out from the Freya preamp. Others may share a different opinion, but I believe that the interaction of the speakers within a listening space play a big role in the listener's perception of the soundstage. As a practical example, I use an Audeze LCD-2 planar magnetic headphone for critical listening in my profession as a video producer and editor. The LCD-2s are very revealing and are great for picking out details. But as for soundstage, there is none (in my opinion)...it all seems to collapse around my left and right ear. Contrast this with listening to my 2-channel stereo, and I can close my eyes and virtually point to individual instruments in the song - the soundstage is present. These listening tests are an attempt to share what I hear sitting in my listening room.
Really well done, I like the idea of changing out the four tubes in this demo vs only two in your other videos because I can clearly hear the difference between four tube rolling and not always with two tube rolling. For me I really liked the sound of the Electro Harmonics.
I love these videos Tyco Dogg keep them coming! I have just bought a Freya and based on these videos, I have purchased two sets of quads. The Tung sol 6sn7gtb and the Electro-Harmonix 6sn7. Although on the RUclips video i couldn’t hear a great deal of difference as I was playing it on my mobile device but in real life I tend to agree with the comments made. I am running an aries mini into a chord hugo, to the freya, then into biamped solid state power amplifiers into a series 1 pair of bowers and wilkins 703s. The tung sols sound very dynamic, fast and focused with an almost solid state sound and the Electro-Harmonix have a very spacious feel to them, very airy and articulate. The highs pop out more on some bits of music, I find. They almost sound like there is a very tiny reverb effect which I feel that I like most of the time for most songs. In actual fact. My favourite setup is to have the tung sols on the left side and the Electro-Harmonix on the voltage gain side. I hate to admit it but I feel like i get the best of both worlds this way and neither of the two are too overpowering in the way they change the way the music sounds. Does anyone else have different branded sets of pairs that they are using with their tube pre?
I have actually moved the Electro-Harmonix to the left and tung sols to the right and got a different sound yet again. This way I feel i get more of an Electro Harmonix spaciousness vs having them the other way around.
Hi Steve, thanks for your insight and kind words! My findings between the new production Tung Sols and the Electro-Harmonix are similar to yours. I found my quad set of Tung Sols to be very close in sound to the JFET solid state mode on the Freya (as evidenced by my other video comparing the two), with good bass response, while the Electro-Harmonix had a great "airy" and expansive sound in the upper frequency range. To get the most benefit from my listening tests, I highly recommend all listeners use a GOOD set of pro sound monitors and a USB audio interface, with balanced lines connecting the two.
The great thing about RUclips is that anyone can post a video and/or comment about an infinite number of topics. Our channel is nothing more than me sharing my thoughts about my particular audio system. Everyone is free to watch them or not. I'm not selling anything, and everything you see in my videos, I purchased retail. As mentioned previously, in my day job I'm a professional in the broadcast industry. It's part of my job to acquire live content (video and audio), edit and process it in a manner that is compliant with professional broadcast standards. In other words, capture footage and sound in the highest fidelity possible. Some of that workflow, as well as the same pro-level gear creates the videos on our channel. I'm not an audiophile, nor do I consider myself one. I am a person who works with professional audio and video production gear on a daily basis, and have done so for over a dozen years.
congrats
Thank you for this video. You are definitely influencing my next purchase.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video, it is very informative.
Thank you Alexander! Stay tuned for more tube comparisons coming soon, including high-end Sophia Electric, PSVANE and Shuguang.
DAMN! I scoff at digitally crunched tests on YT, but CLEARLY, the highs from the first set of TungSol's kick major butt!
i can notice a difference in my gear for certain, both ear tests and playback of recorded audio. Not all tubes have a unique voicing, many tubes are identical though with different brands, especially new production. a 1950 Sylvania 6sn7 will sound very different in a treated room than a JJ. In an untreated room, maybe not so much. fun to play with though regardless, definitely adds a lot of enjoyment to the hobby
EH to my ears followed by Tung Sol. Great video by the way!
I just found this video comparison. Thanks so much for doing this! I'm going to add a tube preamp to my system within the next 12 months...likely the Freya+! I just listened with some Beats headphones through my Samsung connected to a HIDIZS S3p Pro. Next, I'll relisten this week running from optical out of my cable box to a NAD C658 optical in. The NAD C658 feeds signal to a PS Audio S300 driving a pair of Klipsch R51m's along with an SVS SB1000pro.
my son and i both picked the Tung sol
I don't know anything about audiophile standart but for me, I like that tungsol output organic clarity..
Just my subjective point of view..
Just cut out the stock. To me the tung sol was warm with a nice balance of lushness without overdoing it. The electro-harmonix was darker but only by a hair and the sylvania had highs, I wanna say airy highs. I'd say if I was going to get tubes for a freya that the tung-sol and sylvania would be must owns and electro-harmonix if you like a darker sound then what the tung-sol was doing.
And this preamp will be delivered this Thursday to my home , can’t wait along with Shiit audio Vidar amp
E-H was the best among these tubes. More rich sound. I scrolled down and listened blind until I heard a difference. Then scrolled up to get to know. It wins in the second of your videos I've seen.
I really liked it, thanks allot!
For me, it's a toss up between the Tung Sol's and the Electro - Harmonics. The E-H's seem to have a little more top end. Both have better bass than the others.
This is an interesting choice of music cause it sounds like the singer is behind the listener which I haven't experienced before. Very interesting though!
In my room it's the Tung-Sol hands down... However it would all depend on your room. Remember, we hear the room not the speakers. :)
😂😂😂😂
great video!!! must show all the skeptics!
Thank you Tri Le!
Sylvania.
Robert Sabin
I chose them too
Wider image with more depth, but no chunky midrange like the tungsol. I'd keep looking ... - Sandy
Tungsol.. Great sounding
EH has more of a scooped sound, Tung Sol a little more accurate. Either one! Maybe I'd even combine them:) Great vid!!
Thanks for your feedback!
i like the Sylvania!!!
Subscribed!
I think I like the tung sol when listening to them in my headphones the voices is sound at the nicest
I really like the electro harmonics
It's all due to the operating point of the Tube. ideally it should be adjusted to each Tube if you want similar results.
I think it's a tie between the Electro and Tung-Sol. The Sylvania a very close second (maybe best) and the Freya last. The Freya just seemed to lack the top end and bass was too soft. (all of this from my computer speakers)....LOL
I love the sound of the EH tubes for new production. I don't know if it's a brand thing, or if it's due to my EHs being "platinum matched" as a quad. This means not only are the tubes tested to match each other, but within each tube the dual triodes are balanced. The Sylvanias have a smooth midrange which I like. They have more of a laid back sound to me.
Hi Tyco, I really enjoy listening to your comparisons. I wanted to ask, would you consider discussing your equipment? Im wondering if your ultracurve has input/output output upgrades or whether it is stock? Your videos sound great.
Thanks Enrique! I will be doing a System Walkthrough video in the near future, but I want to wait until I've finished some upgrades, which includes a new charge-coupled crossover network for my JBL 4343 monitors that I am building. This requires me to rewire the speakers internally. I am also replacing my Behringer active 3-way crossover with a MiniDSP 4x10 to handle crossover, phase and EQ duties via DSP. And finally, I'm building sound absorption panels to help minimize room modes in my listening space. Lot's of work to do! Regarding my Ultracurve, it is completely stock and is not setup to do any processing at the moment (this will be handled by the MiniDSP once dialed in). I think running the system fully balanced is what's really helping with the noise floor and overall dynamics.
I hope you realize the Tung Sol and EH tubes are the same, same factory, grids, plate, cathode. They are New Sensor Tubes. The Sylvania was the winner with the best detail.
I am listening now with speakers and i can hear the difference.I could not hear it with headphones.Tung-Sol sounds bit more brighter than Electro Harmonix,but Electro Harmonix has better bass.
tung-sol has overall better sound to me, keeps up with the dynamic swings. I hear the Electro Harmonix typical slightly congested sound. The others are very similar, just OK.
This is so impressive. Thank you for doing this. Which Dac did you go with to pair these with for your todays listening? I'm thinking the Gungnir is the perfect match?
Thanks megazine! I think the Gungnir is the perfect match. I went with the Focusrite 2i2 for the portability with my Microsoft Surface tablet, which is my audio source.
How about finding out the sound of pairing different brands?
I was looking for a freya review and find another Dogo owner. Right on.
That's awesome! Yeah he's 2 years old, De El Tumi bloodlines. I had my first Dogo 20 years ago and only a very few people recognized the breed. We never saw another Dogo in person. Now, more people recognize the breed, and we've seen 1 other Dogo in person. Great dogs. You can see more of my dog in the Tung-Sol listening test video. ruclips.net/video/oHtYLc40DC0/видео.html
How much difference we get from different tubes depends a lot on the amp/preamp. Design. I’ve had components that give very little difference and others where the difference is obvious.
One caveat ... it’s never night and day as how some say. Never that great. Audible yes.
Sylvania followed by EH listening through my Eytomotic Research earphones.
listen only with headphones ath-40mx direct to my laptop, the only one that sound diferent was the tung-sol for good, was a stronger sound whit more impact
Thanks for the test, Tyco. For some reason, I could not hear any difference between the tubes. My system is : Music Hall Dac 25.3 > Mark Levinson 27.5 amp > KEF LS50 speaker. My cables are Audioquest cable exclusively. For some reason, my system does not display any difference. Let me know if you have any idea why.
Hi Viet, the differences for me are subtle, so I wouldn't be surprised if one cannot hear any difference. What helps me is to listen to the same song over and over and try to focus on individual instruments in the mix. The bass guitar is a good instrument to try to isolate and focus on. Sometimes you can hear a more rounded, full note vs a note that lacks any punch or deep impact.
Tung Sol FTW!!!!!!!!! Thanks.....
#1 Stock (the best balance from top to bottom, the least amount of sibilance)
#2 Sylvania (good balance, midrange oriented, but a bit too bright on vocals)
#3 Tung Sol (initially most impressive but too bright)
#4 Electro-Harmonix (a mess, smearing of the sound, bright)
I dont know. :). I could live with the top three but probably not the EH tubes.
@Pedro Paco I'm nutz? Can I have an opinion or does only yours count? One thing to disagree and another to get personal.
The original tubes definitely sounds more musical although I think you subs are crossover a bit too low and there is a gap in bass
Hi Nae. I will agree with you that the stock Freya tubes (which are most likely Russian 6H8Cs) don't sound anywhere near as bad as many say, who have heard them in the Freya. They seems to have a slightly laid back, recessed sound to my ears in the midrange, and perhaps this is what many people equate as the "signature tube sound". As for the system frequency response, I think running pink noise through the system and doing correction through the Behringer Ultracurve Pro would be a great subject for an upcoming video. I do have a Behringer ECM8000 calibration mic that I can use. Of the JBL 4343 frequency response curves I've seen, they don't start to rolloff until 40Hz and their 15" sub enclosure is port tuned to 30Hz if I remember correctly.
I'm liking the Tung Sols.
Fantastic. I would love to get into tubes. Should I start with a tube all r? A tube phone pre-all about? Thank you. Great video and SOUND!
Tung sol are my preferred from what i hear on my head set.
I could only tell the difference a better one with Electro Harmonix , rest feel similar or i cannot pick , will take help of my 11 yer old son , as kids can listen to better mid high freq details,
I hear no difference -unfortunately! Just a slight...with Sylvania.
(i know, maybe it's my fault ...pc/audio card/headphones)?
It is strange..
I like the sylvania tubes the best. I'm listening to this on schiit bifrost, lyr, and HE-560. The recording also seems a bit weird as its very hot as in the treble is quite prevalent. I tend to prefer a warmer sound which is probably why I like the sylvania better.
wow cangle thats very analytical of you lol you sound like a silly boy
Great video.
Hope you'll got a better mic now.
Either Tung Sol or freya stock imo
Thanks for doing this - The Stocks tubes suck, Tung Sol are the best, followed by the Electro Harmonix.
To each their own, the electro harmonix were among my lease favorite. Although I did like the Tung Sol. Really though, the differences are quite small in all honesty, at least from this video.
the stock tubes are actually really good. i use the 68hc on the right side of the freya and EH on the left. best combination i've heard and i have tung sold, sylvania, and Raytheon. saying the stock tubes suck , is not a constructive or helpful opinion. it depends on the complete system.
+1 tung sol
...and 1 !
To me the Freya is just too low fi to really tell much. I feel it has a low end sound that some in the video world would say a Screen door effect only in Audio Quality! Look at it like this - The freya is a 480p picture as to say a good used Prima Luna 100 only costing around $1400 is more like a 1080p picture! Freya+ not much better and I think having the XLR on Freya does make it worth the $899 but not a Dime more and your better off with something at a tiny more cost....
I prefer the Sylvania for a bit less hard and second I chose Tungsol.
Hello sir can you help me im a new about tubes,,i want to replacemy 6n9p tubes....can you give me a good recommend to fit for changing thanks
I heard differences in the beginning but halfway through I didn’t
Ron Bernard,same here but it must be the complexity of the music mid flow
Well one things for sure, I'm not ordering my Freya with stocks. It's close for all the others. the Tungs were great (and can be ordered as upgrades from Schitt). the Sylvania was the least "tube like" for me, but also sound great. The electro's are close to the Syl's for the same reason. Tungs for me.
BTW this is my first hearing of tubes. make of that what you will, but to a tube noobie thats what I heard.
I d like Tung Sol sounds
Sylvania my first choice, then Electro Harmonix, Freya then Tung Sol last.
quick question, why is it necessary to go through the reproductive chain? i.e. your electronic crossovers, amps, speakers, subs and your mic?
would it be possible to just record the output straight from the pre?
also, what do you think about the sound differences of the pre in the passive and FET mode compared to the tube?
Thanks!
Good question. Originally, my videos were simply a way for me to hear if different tubes sounded different to me within my own stereo system. I wanted to prove to myself if the "rolling tubes" hype was real. What I have discovered for myself (others may differ and hear something else, and that's totally fine), is that tubes do indeed have an effect on the sound of music coming out of my stereo system - but the effect is subtle and I can only hear these differences when doing an A/B comparison like these videos. If someone were to swap the tubes and I had to identify which brand based on the sound, I feel that would be an impossible task for me. They all sound good when judged solo. So back to the question: why use microphones and not simply capture the preamp signal output. The reason why is because I've noticed that my room plays a big part in hearing soundstage differences. For example, in my first video and my latest video, I positioned the microphones farther away from the speakers, roughly at the distance of my listening position. The differences in sound between tubes became more apparent. With the other videos, I cut the distance between speaker and mic in half (putting the mics closer to the speakers). When I did that, the differences in tube sound became less apparent to me, to the point that I couldn't really hear an appreciable difference. This seems to correlate with me preferring to use headphones to hear detail in music, and my studio monitors to hear the soundstage. Again, others may hear things differently and have a different opinion...this is just my opinion.
thank you for your reply! I never realize that the differences get bigger as you go further down the chain and even as the direct sound interacts with the room would compounds the effect of a small change (this case different tubes) at the front (YMMV). something like that? Me too, I like using my headphone when trying to hear differences in detail say, different versions of a recording. Thanks for your videos!
Funny to watch this on a cell phone using the speaker option without headphones.
I suppose if I smoke a spliff I might hear the differences..... kinda dumb to think we can hear this stuff.
The problem is I'm trying to listen for a difference using the speakers built into my laptop. HAH.
Tung Sol for me any time!
I like sylvania the most!
Tung Sol. But not a fair test unless the tubes are burned in.
have you had any tubes go bad on you? my stock 6H8C started making a loud crackling sound in my speakers... (which goes away when I pull the tubes)...
Going to order some EH
Yes, I had some JJs that did something similar. I turned off my amps and watched the signal meters on the Behringer processor hit full scale. Needless to say, I don't use them in my system anymore. I don't blame JJ, just a bad tube or two that got through QC.
So where are the EAT tubes?
The schiit Freya is a Pre-amp does it change the sound that much making it worth tube rolling? shouldn't a pre-amp not colour the sound? I thought that was for the power/main amplifier is for. From the information I gathered around the Net changing a power tube amp/integrated tube amp's power tubes will make the biggest difference.
You may be correct in that a tube power amp contributes more to the "tube sound" than a tube preamp. I wouldn't know, however, because I don't run tube power amps in my system. I can only speak for the system I'm currently running, and I can definitively say that different tubes in the preamp stage do add subtle changes to the sound. Even with RUclips compression in this 4K video (which isn't as bad as some people make it out to be), you can hear the slight differences *if* your playback system is capable.
For folks that do not want their preamp to color the sound with tubes, there's always the Passive and JFET stages in the Freya. You have 3 choices with the Freya, and I like that with the Freya design.
Just found this video from Paul McGowan (CEO of PS Audio) that talks about tube front-ends making the most impact vs tubes in the power stage: ruclips.net/video/TJR8tEYORzg/видео.html
Soulfire Audio: I actually ordered one of these a month ago. Still waiting. I think that the preamp is where you want to do all of your fiddling with such things, and the power amp should be absolutely transparent. This is why I ordered the Freya, as I have a, soon to be two since I have Magnepans, Benchmark AHB2 amp. Just slightly beyond AMAZING. I also have a Schitt Loki equalizer, which will go before the Freya, which is indispensable for a living room full of overstuffed furniture.
Your video catapulted me into a very deep and expensive rabitthole some years ago - thank you for that! :D
You're quite welcome...enjoy the music!
1.Tung and 2.Sylvia’s followed in 3rd 6s’s
Sounds almost the exact same with different tubes.
I just ordered the Freya, Russian tubes... Where do you get the Sylvania's?
Check the internet for vintage tube vendors, like Upscale Audio or reputable eBay sellers. Make sure you only buy tested tubes that come with a printout of the test results, and especially have them tested for microphony.
ok so I'm on my first listen here and the stock lyr tubes sound good. Also on on a random note the rest of this song sounds good but most of it is muddled
Mate what microphones are you using?
Two Rode NTG-3s
Is it me or did the 6SN7 stick out?
I would would need to listen in my own room with my reference CD's or SACD's to have any real view.
Electro - harmonics all the way - they did it for me. :)
With this particular group of tubes, I agree. However, I wonder if it's because the E-Hs were the only tubes in the group that were "platinum matched" when I purchased them - meaning each tube was tested for both microphonics and balanced/matching triode specs.
It's quite deceptive to compare a low quality/RUclips rendering of sound with the actual live output from the components depicted. If you are using such a low resolution audio format for reproducing the original output and then using that for comparison there is no reason to go beyond mid-fi equipment much less compare tubes!! Please ignore this demonstration as an interesting but futile attempt. High quality sound differences are demonstrable typically from high quality sound sources and this is not. And yes I have often heard, in blind tests obvious differences between components, tubes and cables!!
If you can still hear a difference between the tubes, why is it so important if the RUclips rendering is low quality?
would you please SHUT THE HELL UP DUMBASS?? what an idiot you are.....please cease to exist...
F@#K dude...this is outstanding! Cheers
Midrange is where it counts for me Sylvania wins this one, Tung Sol second.
For me Tung sols had widest and most open soundstage, Sylvania second best, electro harmonix last place
the stock tubes are pretty good
I believe the stock tubes that come with the Freya are NOS Soviet tubes, and if one gets a good quad set there's no reason why they should not sound perfectly adequate. Other Freya owners may have a different experience, and I believe that could be due to having one or more tubes that don't test well as far as microphonics, transconductance, etc. Or simply "expectation bias," where someone expects the stock tubes to be worse sounding than anything else. My stock tubes sounded fine to me. Not the best, but certainly they didn't suck.
i know 6sn7 is more l;inear but i miss the sound of ecc82..its so passion sound special in womens voice
Like just about everyone else in the comments section on my iPad using headphones the Tung Sols sounded best.
The Schiit!
I like the sylvania
Tung sol sound the best
Tung Sol Hands Down..
Tung Sol is the best in my opinion. Sylvania sounds almost exactly like stock tubes. EH was just meh.
Well that’s a RUclips fail it all sounds the same ,,but i would love that pre amp ,not because of a RUclips sound lmao
Sorry but I couldn't hear any difference or perhaps I should have used a headphone
Hi Cao, can you describe the system you are using to listen to this video? As I mentioned in a previous comment, the differences are very subtle in my opinion. Even with me using my Yamaha studio monitors, Audeze headphones and a Focusrite audio interface, I have to listen carefully to hear the differences.
get some better headphones. with my hd800's i can hear clear differences.
Heard differences with every single tube amp using my HD600