The problem is that using the 3d printer leads to inaccuracies from the layered printing. This comparison would be much better if he used a resin printer instead
I think the point of these toroidal propellers is that they're more efficient at equivalent or near equivalent power as conventional propellers. You should look at how long you can fly your planes for on the 3 different propellers at full charge. That way you can see the efficiency of the prop plane
it’s actually less efficient because it has a higher moment of inertia, owing to all the extra mass far away from the centre of rotation, but it makes less sound, which is meant to make it less unpleasant for use in a civilian area
@@redminecrafter101 agreed, alot of the efficiency gains are at higher RPMs but this is also for smaller boats. I'm only aware of toroidal propellers giving higher efficiency in hydrodynamics at higher RPMs so not sure how it translates to aerodynamics
@@redminecrafter101A higher moment of inertia doesn’t make the propeller less efficient. You get additional torque when turning, for example, but that’s it. The props are still pretty light, so the total kinetic energy stored in the prop with the higher moment of inertia is still negligible. The increase in efficiency comes from the shape of the tips, where usually, vortices would form where higher pressure behind the blade equalises to the front. This is reduced in a toroidal prop and also results in less noise, because less energy escapes into the surroundings.
@@nanolog522 yeah i forgot that vortices cause a lot of drag in water. in my experience, having built one makeshift drone, the toroidal props we had were less effective with the same motor, may just have been me
@@redminecrafter101 That depends on a bunch of different parameters. Directly comparing toroidal and conventional props is hard, the toroidal ones you had may have been low quality (with a bad geometry) or been too large/small for the motors you used.
Just a little help. Resin print these propellers. It will smoothen out the prop a ton and make it a little more efficient. Also maybe try adjusting prop pitch 🤷♂️. Just thoughts
@@makermandan a resin printed one would probably be as close as you can get before getting one with injection molded one. Foxeer have toroidal propeller for sale but it's only for 5 inch right now
I'm pretty sure they're only quieter because they have more drag and spin slower. Compare the noise at the same amount of thrust and see if they're truly quieter.
the sound profile is quieter because it distributes the noise more evenly on different frequencies. That way you have lower peak decibels, and the way human ear works, we are more sensitive to one frequency to the other. Zipline propellers take this to the extreme by having blades of different sizing with none of the blades being 180 degrees from each other. In any case your point might be correct anyways, printed propellers are heavy to begin with.
You might burn your motor winding or esc, measure the amp draw when using the 5 bladed toroid. It was probably silent because the motor couldn't get to its efficient rpm
Motor was meant for original prop has anyone tested the volume of air they move ? Could size and speed effect the test? Example a larger prop at a lower rpms if in fact it does move more air? I know @rctestflight has tested under water but I'm unsure if he even tested volume either in a tunnel msy give different results.
I would like to see a plane with a cycloturbine similar to the Voith schneider (boat) propeller. Using a pusher configuration, have the thruster spin the same direction as the landing gear wheels roll.
I’m curious if you optimized the size better and made it smooth how much that would affect the sound vs. power output. Usually when you 3D print something like that, the ridges from the print will cause drag and thus decrease the efficiency compared to the smooth purchased prop.
Did you measure the drawn current with the different props? Might be that the diameter of the 5 bladed prop could be bigger to pull the same amount of power from the motor....
I think with the noise reduction, (no science research at all btw) it would be great for ships and submarines. Less noise to disrupt mammals or fish in their habitat. Anyway….
Toroidal propellers are available for pleasure craft. They are not only quieter but more efficient in water. Presently, they run about $5k U.S., so the cost is prohibitive for many. The projection is for costs to come down as manufacturing techniques improve.
This is a cute sort of DIY test, but in a wind tunnel it would be better to see what is really going on with the overall airflow, cavitation and whatnot. Maybe toroidal might not be great for sheer performance, but for a info gathering drone that has to loiter efficiently for long periods of time, maybe better? Like I said, time to wind tunnel that stuff.
So a drone with a long and thin propeller is more efficient and able to go to higher altitudes because of it's efficient use of the motor's power. So like, distance is an aspect of stealth all its own.do you think these propellers could be lengthened in some way?
Can you do the power consumption (ampere) comparison, also the RPM of toroidal vs normal. Because i think toroidal is somewhat heavier compared to normal
I’d imagine that since the propeller was 3D printed, it’s not as efficient as it could be 🤔. Wonder if you try to make one but as smooth and light as you can get it, if it will actually take off ?🧐
Obviously; The motor has design for normal propellers with only 2 or 3 blades as though with regards the 3 bladed Toroidal Propeller already comprising with 2x3pairs thus constituted as 6
What about normal prop but different size? Smaller might be quieter at the same rpm but bigger makes the engine run at lower rpm which might reduce noise.
“It would be very good for stealth applications! “Hehe the enemy can’t hear me they don’t know where I am!” Pheonix missile going pitbull after having a lock 68mi away:
Maybe there's a fluid dynamics expert that knows why, but toroidal props are definitely better in the water. Maybe with a different design yours could be better too? This was really cool either way.
Pretty sure it's something to do with edge vortices. With the boat props, edge vortices means cavitation, which is very bad, and these props apparently reduce cavitation bubbles
Why not make a 3 or 4 blade (standard type) Tho with a 'Single Toroidal Loop' of a comperable size to blade width' at the end of each blade?! Power and Quiet' worth a try!' 🤔
Video idea: make your own plane try to make it the slowest possible
so basically no stall speed?
Paper airplane solos
gliders joined the chat
Simple planes try it
@@HEAVYWIDDAMACHINEGUN yo i play that, my username is grandprix
So why didn’t you test a 2 bladed toroidal? Something equivalent to the 2 bladed original prop?
The problem is that using the 3d printer leads to inaccuracies from the layered printing. This comparison would be much better if he used a resin printer instead
I think the point of these toroidal propellers is that they're more efficient at equivalent or near equivalent power as conventional propellers. You should look at how long you can fly your planes for on the 3 different propellers at full charge. That way you can see the efficiency of the prop plane
it’s actually less efficient because it has a higher moment of inertia, owing to all the extra mass far away from the centre of rotation, but it makes less sound, which is meant to make it less unpleasant for use in a civilian area
@@redminecrafter101 agreed, alot of the efficiency gains are at higher RPMs but this is also for smaller boats. I'm only aware of toroidal propellers giving higher efficiency in hydrodynamics at higher RPMs so not sure how it translates to aerodynamics
@@redminecrafter101A higher moment of inertia doesn’t make the propeller less efficient. You get additional torque when turning, for example, but that’s it. The props are still pretty light, so the total kinetic energy stored in the prop with the higher moment of inertia is still negligible.
The increase in efficiency comes from the shape of the tips, where usually, vortices would form where higher pressure behind the blade equalises to the front. This is reduced in a toroidal prop and also results in less noise, because less energy escapes into the surroundings.
@@nanolog522 yeah i forgot that vortices cause a lot of drag in water. in my experience, having built one makeshift drone, the toroidal props we had were less effective with the same motor, may just have been me
@@redminecrafter101 That depends on a bunch of different parameters. Directly comparing toroidal and conventional props is hard, the toroidal ones you had may have been low quality (with a bad geometry) or been too large/small for the motors you used.
Fuck it, 15 blade toroidal prop with a smooth surface
The 5 blade seems like a weight problem (slower rotation) is it possible to print thinner in htpetg?
Just a little help. Resin print these propellers. It will smoothen out the prop a ton and make it a little more efficient. Also maybe try adjusting prop pitch 🤷♂️. Just thoughts
Props to you man 👏
that one flew right over my head
@@tobiasthegentleman9131 😁
You should compare with a 3d printed regular blade...
The regular blade seems to have a better finish
3d printing vs injection molding
Could you try propellers with 3 and 4 blades snd compare them to the 2-bladed one?
Also, a 2 bladed toroidal prop. That would be interesting.
@@razticgames990yes
Do you think the texture difference effects the performance any?
Very much so and the blade isn't designed for that aircraft size
For sure, I can do an experiment where I compare an injection molded prop to a 3d printed one.
@@makermandan that sounds like a great video idea
@@makermandan a resin printed one would probably be as close as you can get before getting one with injection molded one. Foxeer have toroidal propeller for sale but it's only for 5 inch right now
It absolutely does.
I'm pretty sure they're only quieter because they have more drag and spin slower. Compare the noise at the same amount of thrust and see if they're truly quieter.
And polish them and reduce the drag as much as possible to see if there is a measurable difference.
the sound profile is quieter because it distributes the noise more evenly on different frequencies. That way you have lower peak decibels, and the way human ear works, we are more sensitive to one frequency to the other. Zipline propellers take this to the extreme by having blades of different sizing with none of the blades being 180 degrees from each other. In any case your point might be correct anyways, printed propellers are heavy to begin with.
Compare the sound level & efficiency from the toroidal prop to a normal prop at a reduced throttle (matching the thrust to the toroidal one)
Custom 3-D print 1800s fan blade
The moment you told me”I could barely hear it” I thought about Ukrainian drones, that is a really nice idea. What about copter with such propellers? 🤔
Did u see the edit?
What about EDF and thrust vectoring for VTOL ?
add rocket engines
I did that to my boat! I don’t see why it won’t be possible for a plane
"rc1 to tower 3, permission to butter this bread"
granted
One bladed propellor would be cool, use lead to counter ballance the weight
Such a freaking cool test, thank you! Always wondering how the toroidal compares to the rest of them.
You might burn your motor winding or esc, measure the amp draw when using the 5 bladed toroid. It was probably silent because the motor couldn't get to its efficient rpm
Just wanted to throw out that I appreciate you going back to the sound video to add the link. Never would have found this otherwise
Actually wild and cool idea to benchmark and test every forms of propeller. Reminds me of one channel testing different fans for CPU cooler.
Please use some kind of filler and with sandpaper to make those props smooth
You should do one with only two of them cause it seem like the blade were dragging too much air and the plane would loose power
Motor was meant for original prop has anyone tested the volume of air they move ? Could size and speed effect the test? Example a larger prop at a lower rpms if in fact it does move more air? I know @rctestflight has tested under water but I'm unsure if he even tested volume either in a tunnel msy give different results.
I would like to see a plane with a cycloturbine similar to the Voith schneider (boat) propeller.
Using a pusher configuration, have the thruster spin the same direction as the landing gear wheels roll.
What if you fly the normal propellor at the same speed/thrust. Is the sound still different?
I’m curious if you optimized the size better and made it smooth how much that would affect the sound vs. power output. Usually when you 3D print something like that, the ridges from the print will cause drag and thus decrease the efficiency compared to the smooth purchased prop.
I think after 112 years, we've pretty much figured out propellers.
Someone underestimates human laziness in exploring problem spaces.
What's up with the Ukrainian NPC soldier
More power!
Put some bumps or nurbs on it to reduce turbulence even more. Check out bionic propellers.
Try a lower kv motor for the toroidal propeller
Butter!
Did you measure the drawn current with the different props? Might be that the diameter of the 5 bladed prop could be bigger to pull the same amount of power from the motor....
@makermandan make the triple propeller circumference wider this would give it a higher thrust
I think with the noise reduction, (no science research at all btw) it would be great for ships and submarines. Less noise to disrupt mammals or fish in their habitat. Anyway….
Toroidal propellers are available for pleasure craft. They are not only quieter but more efficient in water. Presently, they run about $5k U.S., so the cost is prohibitive for many. The projection is for costs to come down as manufacturing techniques improve.
This is a cute sort of DIY test, but in a wind tunnel it would be better to see what is really going on with the overall airflow, cavitation and whatnot.
Maybe toroidal might not be great for sheer performance, but for a info gathering drone that has to loiter efficiently for long periods of time, maybe better?
Like I said, time to wind tunnel that stuff.
So a drone with a long and thin propeller is more efficient and able to go to higher altitudes because of it's efficient use of the motor's power. So like, distance is an aspect of stealth all its own.do you think these propellers could be lengthened in some way?
I doubt he could go much longer than those....
What is the WEIGHT comparison between the 3 propellers?
Also pitch area per blade and surface area need to be taken into account
I would think the extra weight of the props has something to do with the slower speeds. The motor likely is not spinning as fast
Try calculating the sound at the same lifting force. I feel the toroidal is just quieter because it doesn't have as much lift.
It would be really interesting to see this on a fixed pitch coax heli.
Twin toroidal plane!
The added mass is making it slower. I wonder if you made a 2-bladed propeller would it be closer to normal
I'd like to try one on my slo stick, it's very light and would be an interesting concept
Can you do the power consumption (ampere) comparison, also the RPM of toroidal vs normal. Because i think toroidal is somewhat heavier compared to normal
Which one is the most energy efficient. 😅
Everybody gangsta till this man has 0 noise uav
I like the Ukraine detail❤️
I would like to see if any difference is made by polishing them.
Im a simple man, I just wanna see a twin engine toroidal just to see it fly.
Where can I get one these planes it looks like fun to fly.
MORE CONTENT!!!
Ok fbi
@@makermandan Thanks, you’ve been taken off our threat yellow watchlist!
You’re flying at the 495th RC Squadron!
Yessir! Do you fly there too?
@@makermandan I do! I was there yesterday. It’s a great place to fly.
Maybe we’ll cross paths. Say hi if you see me with my carbon cub.
Maybe you can make a stronger propeller with ABS or make it with resin. Good luck.
A helicopter next please!!!!!
What would happen is there was only 1 bladed propeller on it? You think it could fly?
I have the same RC plane and I saw that go pro mount, could i have the file to that?
Justice for the boat. Put crew members to measure stability, and like a wise replier once said, send them out to find the one piece.
I think increasing radius of 3d printed propeller equivalent to original one may help .
I'd like to see a propeller with wingletts😅
Might wanna make those sides push air out not in just like a shark let on a plane's wing (sound may increase)
Compare thrust at the same rpm.
put a v12 in it
Ive gotta get an rc plane, instead of trying to fly ground vehicles 😂
Wonder how they perform on a drone/helicopter?
Can we know what model that plane is?
Seems like the 3d printed propeller could benefit from being sanded before using
Hello! What is the name of the plane? What model?
Where did you buy this plane
I’d imagine that since the propeller was 3D printed, it’s not as efficient as it could be 🤔. Wonder if you try to make one but as smooth and light as you can get it, if it will actually take off ?🧐
What’s that plane called and what remote are you using
Which model is this? Im always looking for a new j3 cub but i just cant find any??
Having many times the surface area of the regular prop, I believe the non shiny surface on the toroidals is a disadvantage.
I wanna see if its possible to make a plane propeller that is both as quiet as the toroidal propeller but powerful as the regular propeller
Obviously;
The motor has design for normal propellers with only 2 or 3 blades as though with regards the 3 bladed Toroidal Propeller already comprising with 2x3pairs thus constituted as 6
Where can i get that plane?
What’s the info on the plane?
How about trying to do the opposite, make the loudest propellers possible?
Try a propellor with only one blade ❤❤❤
Make a regular propeller with 3 leaves
Can yiu print thinner like a gullows thin?
What about normal prop but different size? Smaller might be quieter at the same rpm but bigger makes the engine run at lower rpm which might reduce noise.
Is it the material? Do the 3d printed ones flex more because of material? You could me losing power that way.
Is there a sweet spot between the 3 different types of propellers…?
“It would be very good for stealth applications!
“Hehe the enemy can’t hear me they don’t know where I am!”
Pheonix missile going pitbull after having a lock 68mi away:
Maybe there's a fluid dynamics expert that knows why, but toroidal props are definitely better in the water. Maybe with a different design yours could be better too? This was really cool either way.
Pretty sure it's something to do with edge vortices. With the boat props, edge vortices means cavitation, which is very bad, and these props apparently reduce cavitation bubbles
When you check the torque, you need to make sure the rpm is equivalent.
I see a GoPro mount can you please tell me if a GoPro works on this plane?
Try a two blade toroidal prop.
more efficient doesn't always mean better
His aren’t more efficient because he didn’t smooth out the prop from the 3d print
How about it, if you use to drone the 5 toroidal blade
Try two bladed toroidal prop
Why not make a 3 or 4 blade (standard type) Tho with a 'Single Toroidal Loop' of a comperable size to blade width' at the end of each blade?! Power and Quiet' worth a try!' 🤔
Video idea: try flying an rc plane using your rc ship propellers and use the planes propellers on the ship
A plain with a hard angle of attack
Video Idea: Use A Drone To Shoot Sky-High Footage.
what plane is that?
Where Can i buy this rc plane?