In my opinion better way to get great subtone is Play as normal embouchure, but you must Control your breath as much as possibile. Very softly breathing, sometimes got feeling like you loost your air on left/right site of your mounthpiece. Same like Ben Webster
It's the best explanation I never ever found about the subtones! You deserve many compliments. While I was watching at this video I was thinking to "Moonlight Serenade". Its warm sound, when a tenor sax player plays it, is remembering me this explanation.
wow, I've been doing almost nothing but trying to achieve a nice consistent even low note subtone for the last month or two. like literally every practice session I just play from E downwards trying to isolate only the subtone, except I didnt even know it was called that... while I'd stumbled my way to discovering the relaxed lip and diaphram-driven warm air aspects for myself, it still just wasn't at all reliable and higher harmonics would keep honking in somehow...the 'jaw back' thing has made an instant improvement. thanks!
OH MY GOD I DID IT!!! I literally have watched this video 4+ times along with many others over the past few years and TODAY. TODAY was the day. I always thought it was just a really quiet note, no, it literally feels and sounds entirely different! Thank you!!!
The only problem is I think I have leaks on my lowest 3 notes so I can’t do it there very well (this has been an ongoing problem for a little while, my poor sax is on its last legs). And I’ve noticed (at the moment) it’s way easier to do on a small tip opening than a large one. Although, I’m comparing a 4 to a 7* which is a big jump, so YMMV
Watched loads of RUclips videos on subtones. Never really understood what it was all about. No one that I have seen has ever explained it so clearly. " I "get it now". Thanks for the great content.
Hi Jamie, great detailed explanation, your master class on this topic was clear. Phil Woods applied this sound on alto sax in a beautiful way and Stan Getz seemed to do it over the whole range of the tenor sax. Thank you!
You're very kind, thanks. I was actually gonna mention Getz in the video and must have forgotten cos yes, he does sound like he's subtending the whole time. Thanks for watching and let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. J:-)
Hi Angel! I've actually got that tune on my list of stuff to cover later. Thanks for watching and let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. J:-)
Thank you for these explanations. Your videos are excellent. I play on a 5 mouthpiece with a 3.5 reed. Should I change the reed for a softer one to get the subtone? 😃
Thank you for these explanations. Your videos are excellent. I play on a 5 mouthpiece with a 3.5 reed. Should I change the reed for a softer one to get the subtone?
Very useful video about subtone. I apply all the rules that you said in video, its ok from low g to low d, but when I come to low c, c sharp, b, b flat, nothing came out, no sound at all! I have to blou really hard to get those lower notes. But when I want to get subtone, the problem happen. Sax is ok, no leaks. Tongue is in the lower position in the oral cavity, and still nothing happens! I really dont know what to do...
This technique Jamie your are describing is the very opposite! of the „traditional“ embochure in many of your other videos…, i.e lower lip out teeth about 1.5 cm into the mooting piece and else, for me it works for the low notes like low b flat c and d but is completely contra productive if you play the higher notes like everything about the middle c…, if everything is “back” , I.e lower teeth, lower lip and upper teeth how can you possibly maintain a functioning embochure? Upper lip is where?? Thanks for your help and great channel, congrats!
@@GetYourSaxTogether thanx Jamie, the way you describe is the way I do my embuchure , I.e. way too little mouthpiece in my mouth , front teeth at the tip of the mouth piece , lower lip at the tip of the mouthpiece , I.e back as you describe it, result is: no tone whatsoever 😢
Your videos are awesome and I love that you explain a bit of the physiology (is that a word?) behind the techniques. What would be nice and easy tunes to apply the subtones to?
What a coincidence. I just saw someone doing that today while playing and I really had no idea what was that and how should it be done. Once again thank you for this
Thank for your video. On my tenor sax, I succeed in producing subtones until C, but for B and Bb, it seems impossible... Could you give me some advice ? Thks
Hi Jamie! Just recently found your channel and I am loving the way you are teaching! Tried to use your technique for the subtone and indeed your description of the technique is incredibly effective. One thing I have noticed though is that this leads me to seriously flatten all the notes I try to sub-tone because I am putting less pressure on the reed. Is there a remedy? I guess a quick examination of your other videos suggests that I may need to modify my vocal tract? Also, is the above observation suggesting I should not be controlling the pitch with the pressure on the reed...but with the vocal tract? Thanks in advance for your reply! I do love your videos!
Hi Herve - looking forward to meeting face to face, but in the meantime I think the solution might be to play all the other notes that aren't subtone with a similar loose embouchure, then push in a bit in general.
Thanks. I followed your method and successful got the subtone. However, all the notes are flattened at least 25 cents. Is it common? I have already move the mouthpiece the maximum inward but still flat about 25 to 35 cents for all notes. Would you please advise what I should do? Thank you.
Thanks for the lesson ! it seems my subtones are flat. I work on it daily trying to bring it up to pitch. Does it take time or are there any secrets to bring up the pitch. I have been gripping the mouthpiece /reed and the pitch is getting better.
Thanks Jamey I noticed when you switch from regular tone (G for example) to subtone (G) both notes are right in tune.M y regular note is intune but it gets flat when I switch to my subtone embrochure. It is getting much better though. My Bb B and C still need to get up to pitch. I will keep working on it. Thanks for all the great info. Your videos are a great help for my improvement and I am sure there are many other that are very grateful for your generosity and guidance.
I'm a little late to the party Jamie, but I notice big differences in my ability to play subtones with different reed strengths, different mouthpieces. Is there something to be said about tip openings or reed strengths in producing quality, repeatable subtones? Or is it limited to your 6 pointers in the video? (Really concise and well described - great video as usual!)
Hi Jamie thanks for the sub tones video, really want to master this. Could you clarify please - you say about upper teeth being almost off the mouthpiece but also retracting your lower jaw? I cant quite manage this successfully. Thanks
Possibly one of the more informative videos on the production of the subtone. The instructions would have been even more comprehensive if details of the mouthpiece and reed had been included also the anatomical structure of lips, jaw most likely to render the production of the subtone more facile. I have been trying to develop playing in subtone for the past ten years on and off and have only succeeded in the ability to play very very softly with no characteristic subtone quality and no breath sound. In fact I am not able to even produce the slightest trace of breath sound. To add to my woes, I cannot retract my lower jaw even a fraction of a millimeter and my lips are just thin lines across my lower face. As if all this were not enough, I live in a third world country where no one has even heard of subtone and the only contact with civilization is via the Internet. Any help by way of suggestions, advice, instruction, references etc would be greatly appreciated and thanked for.
Yeh, everyone has different physiology and re-traction of the jaw does seem to be key. I've got a new course coming out very soon called Total Tone Mastery. That covers subtone in the bonus modules.
I have been trying unsuccessfully for years on and off to be able to subtone. While there are a sufficient number of videos detailing the embouchure, position of lips , jaw etc no one seems to have bothered to mention the type of mouthpiece and reed combination conducive to subtone production. My prolonged attempts at subtoning seems to indicate that not every player can subtone as so much depends on the anatomical structure of the player. In my own case, the lips are meager, my lower jaw in its natural position is just forward of the upper and cannot be moved back to any extent. Has anyone dealt with the subtone subject with any degree of scientific rigor, so that the technique may be adopted by just about all players regardless of lip, jaw and other features. I hope you might have some answers to my questions and possibly suggest a method taking into account the undesirable lip and jaw configuration that I have been bestowed with. Thank you,
Wow. Thanks for your long message, and I totally hear you. The most scientific book I've ever come across on saxophone embouchure and anatomy etc is by Dr Mark Watkins and it's called "From The Inside Out". That's my best tip!
@@GetYourSaxTogether I wonder if my mouthpiece is a good one for producing subtone ?? I have a Theo Wanne Slant Sig with #6 tip opening. What do you think ?
If you enjoyed learning how to play subtone check out the rest of my technique videos ruclips.net/p/PLBRGEAheQrpmNJ5Utbv8F6W8jB-k_WAeX
:-)
In my opinion better way to get great subtone is Play as normal embouchure, but you must Control your breath as much as possibile. Very softly breathing, sometimes got feeling like you loost your air on left/right site of your mounthpiece. Same like Ben Webster
Ok. 😎
It's the best explanation I never ever found about the subtones! You deserve many compliments. While I was watching at this video I was thinking to "Moonlight Serenade". Its warm sound, when a tenor sax player plays it, is remembering me this explanation.
Brilliant. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching and let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. J:-)
wow, I've been doing almost nothing but trying to achieve a nice consistent even low note subtone for the last month or two. like literally every practice session I just play from E downwards trying to isolate only the subtone, except I didnt even know it was called that... while I'd stumbled my way to discovering the relaxed lip and diaphram-driven warm air aspects for myself, it still just wasn't at all reliable and higher harmonics would keep honking in somehow...the 'jaw back' thing has made an instant improvement. thanks!
That's great. You are welcome
OH MY GOD I DID IT!!! I literally have watched this video 4+ times along with many others over the past few years and TODAY. TODAY was the day. I always thought it was just a really quiet note, no, it literally feels and sounds entirely different! Thank you!!!
The only problem is I think I have leaks on my lowest 3 notes so I can’t do it there very well (this has been an ongoing problem for a little while, my poor sax is on its last legs). And I’ve noticed (at the moment) it’s way easier to do on a small tip opening than a large one. Although, I’m comparing a 4 to a 7* which is a big jump, so YMMV
Yeh! You're welcome
Best teacher ever seen on youtube! Many blessings to you Jamie 😇
Thanks so much 🙏🏻
Watched loads of RUclips videos on subtones. Never really understood what it was all about. No one that I have seen has ever explained it so clearly. " I "get it now".
Thanks for the great content.
That's awesome Geoff. Thanks for watching and let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. J:-)
Brilliant explanation ... best I have seen just so detailed! Great channel Jamie only just discovered you!
Awesome, thank you Marie! Make sure you check out my free masterclass as well. Loads of info on there. J:-) www.getyoursaxtogether.com/masterclass
Hi Jamie, great detailed explanation, your master class on this topic was clear. Phil Woods applied this sound on alto sax in a beautiful way and Stan Getz seemed to do it over the whole range of the tenor sax. Thank you!
You're very kind, thanks. I was actually gonna mention Getz in the video and must have forgotten cos yes, he does sound like he's subtending the whole time. Thanks for watching and let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. J:-)
Phenomenal Jeimy. I'd appreciate it if you made a video about Lou Reed's final solo "Walk on the Wild Side". Thank you
Hi Angel! I've actually got that tune on my list of stuff to cover later. Thanks for watching and let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. J:-)
Thank you for these explanations. Your videos are excellent. I play on a 5 mouthpiece with a 3.5 reed. Should I change the reed for a softer one to get the subtone?
😃
Didn’t you just ask that?
Thank you for these explanations. Your videos are excellent. I play on a 5 mouthpiece with a 3.5 reed. Should I change the reed for a softer one to get the subtone?
Maybe. Maybe not! Try it!
you save my lift eventhrough I watch your clip so many time and now I can nail it 🎉🎉🎉 Thanks
👍
This was very helpful !!!!
I'm so glad!
Very useful video about subtone. I apply all the rules that you said in video, its ok from low g to low d, but when I come to low c, c sharp, b, b flat, nothing came out, no sound at all! I have to blou really hard to get those lower notes. But when I want to get subtone, the problem happen. Sax is ok, no leaks. Tongue is in the lower position in the oral cavity, and still nothing happens! I really dont know what to do...
Yeh, it can be tricky to get it, you're not alone. Your jaw has to be really far back. Sorry I can't help you over youtube comments! Good luck. J:-)
Thanks anyway, I try to put my lower jaw, more in backward position.
Your teaching is awesome 🎷
Thank you! 😃
Спасибо! В ваших уроках всегда доступно и понятно объясняете!)
Спасибо!)
Всего Вам самого светлого! 😊
Спасибо 👍
Thanks Jamie, saxtastic 😂
Anytime. 👍🏻
Thank you very much
Love it
You're welcome 😊
Hi, you have a really nice mannerism in explaining. Thanks Gary, Adelaide, Australia
You're very kind, thank you. Thanks for your support. J:-)
Hi Jamie, I find tenor is best for subtone, Alto do not play it prop
For sure, subtone sounds better on tenor, I agree.
This technique Jamie your are describing is the very opposite! of the „traditional“ embochure in many of your other videos…, i.e lower lip out teeth about 1.5 cm into the mooting piece and else, for me it works for the low notes like low b flat c and d but is completely contra productive if you play the higher notes like everything about the middle c…, if everything is “back” , I.e lower teeth, lower lip and upper teeth how can you possibly maintain a functioning embochure? Upper lip is where?? Thanks for your help and great channel, congrats!
You can use that kinda embouchure all over the horn, yo li just get very different results from the usual embouchure.
@@GetYourSaxTogether thanx Jamie, the way you describe is the way I do my embuchure , I.e. way too little mouthpiece in my mouth , front teeth at the tip of the mouth piece , lower lip at the tip of the mouthpiece , I.e back as you describe it, result is: no tone whatsoever 😢
@@Hueho1 😕
Your videos are awesome and I love that you explain a bit of the physiology (is that a word?) behind the techniques. What would be nice and easy tunes to apply the subtones to?
Well, any ballad sounds good with subtone, in fact you can hear it on my video tomorrow!
Very useful and nice video. Thank you.
Anytime!
This is so helpful! Looking forward to trying this on my vintage 1936 Buescher Aristocrat alto.
Oooh! Nice Francis, bet that sounds lush! J:-)
Very cool and useful lesson!!!!
Glad you liked it! J:-)
thank a lot
Most welcome!
Thanks for the lesson..
Anytime!
GOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!
👍
What a coincidence. I just saw someone doing that today while playing and I really had no idea what was that and how should it be done.
Once again thank you for this
That's fate then Sheldon, love it! Thanks for watching. J:-)
Thank for your video. On my tenor sax, I succeed in producing subtones until C, but for B and Bb, it seems impossible... Could you give me some advice ? Thks
My best advice is all on the video. Check your horn isn’t leaking though.
well done Jamie excellent lesson, easily understood.
Brilliant, glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for your support! J:-)
Hi Jamie! Just recently found your channel and I am loving the way you are teaching! Tried to use your technique for the subtone and indeed your description of the technique is incredibly effective. One thing I have noticed though is that this leads me to seriously flatten all the notes I try to sub-tone because I am putting less pressure on the reed. Is there a remedy? I guess a quick examination of your other videos suggests that I may need to modify my vocal tract? Also, is the above observation suggesting I should not be controlling the pitch with the pressure on the reed...but with the vocal tract? Thanks in advance for your reply! I do love your videos!
Hi Herve - looking forward to meeting face to face, but in the meantime I think the solution might be to play all the other notes that aren't subtone with a similar loose embouchure, then push in a bit in general.
Support with your diafragme ! As a lot of peoble does'nt know you can stear the whole intonation from there.
Brilliant video lesson Jamie. Cheers
As always, thanks for watching Andrew! J:-)
Whenever I practice subtone on tenor sax sometimes the low notes like d e and e flat gurgle alot. How can I fix this?
Many factors but try putting a wine cork in the bell.
@@GetYourSaxTogether okay thanks!
Thanks for this lesson. Does softer reed strength help in subtone ?
Not always I don’t think.
@@GetYourSaxTogether Thanks.
Thanks. I followed your method and successful got the subtone. However, all the notes are flattened at least 25 cents. Is it common? I have already move the mouthpiece the maximum inward but still flat about 25 to 35 cents for all notes. Would you please advise what I should do? Thank you.
Ok, so you might have to adjust with the position of your larynx, or maybe you’ve got the embouchure right but it’s just too loose, hard to say.
That's mad...but good!👍
Thanks for watching 🙏🏻
Great info, it's never been explained to before now, so thanks 👍
Glad it's helpful. Thanks for watching. J:-)
Thanks for the lesson ! it seems my subtones are flat. I work on it daily trying to bring it up to pitch. Does it take time or are there any secrets to bring up the pitch. I have been gripping the mouthpiece /reed and the pitch is getting better.
Don’t bite to get the pitch up. Blow loose and just push your mouthpiece on.
Thanks Jamey I noticed when you switch from regular tone (G for example) to subtone (G) both notes are right in tune.M y regular note is intune but it gets flat when I switch to my subtone embrochure. It is getting much better though. My Bb B and C still need to get up to pitch. I will keep working on it. Thanks for all the great info. Your videos are a great help for my improvement and I am sure there are many other that are very grateful for your generosity and guidance.
Thanks for sharing! i really liked the video, Keep it up!
You're welcome. Thanks for watching and let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. J:-)
Hello from France,
I cannot find a good translation for Subtones into French... could you help me ?
TIA
Marie-Hélène
Le subtone. 🤗
Such a good explanation. Nice one!
Thanks Dan. Good luck with it! J:-)
Dang, I was actually looking for this. Thank you.
I was in the right place at the right time then, perfect! Thanks for watching. J:-)
@@GetYourSaxTogether yup!
Superb, thanks again 😊
You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for your support! J:-)
❤
🙏🏻
Awesome! thanks for the tip
You're very welcome. Anytime! Thanks for watching. J:-)
I'm a little late to the party Jamie, but I notice big differences in my ability to play subtones with different reed strengths, different mouthpieces. Is there something to be said about tip openings or reed strengths in producing quality, repeatable subtones? Or is it limited to your 6 pointers in the video? (Really concise and well described - great video as usual!)
I guess it’s a bit easier with a wider tip, but not that significant I don’t think.
@@GetYourSaxTogether By wider tip are you referring to the tip opening? (I'm thinking all Tenor reeds are the same width, but not sure?)
@@bobfixes7640 yes, the gap between the reed tip and the mouthpiece tip.
@@GetYourSaxTogether Thank you!
Hi Jamie thanks for the sub tones video, really want to master this. Could you clarify please - you say about upper teeth being almost off the mouthpiece but also retracting your lower jaw? I cant quite manage this successfully. Thanks
Your top teeth go back and your bottom jaw also goes back, but even further. Kinda hard to describe but you might be able to see it on the video. J:-)
Possibly one of the more informative videos on the production of the subtone. The instructions would have been even more comprehensive if details of the mouthpiece and reed had been included also the anatomical structure of lips, jaw most likely to render the production of the subtone more facile. I have been trying to develop playing in subtone for the past ten years on and off and have only succeeded in the ability to play very very softly with no characteristic subtone quality and no breath sound. In fact I am not able to even produce the slightest trace of breath sound. To add to my woes, I cannot retract my lower jaw even a fraction of a millimeter and my lips are just thin lines across my lower face. As if all this were not enough, I live in a third world country where no one has even heard of subtone and the only contact with civilization is via the Internet. Any help by way of suggestions, advice, instruction, references etc would be greatly appreciated and thanked for.
Yeh, everyone has different physiology and re-traction of the jaw does seem to be key. I've got a new course coming out very soon called Total Tone Mastery. That covers subtone in the bonus modules.
👏👏👏
🙏🏻
I have been trying unsuccessfully for years on and off to be able to subtone. While there are a sufficient number of videos detailing the embouchure, position of lips , jaw etc no one seems to have bothered to mention the type of mouthpiece and reed combination conducive to subtone production. My prolonged attempts at subtoning seems to indicate that not every player can subtone as so much depends on the anatomical structure of the player. In my own case, the lips are meager, my lower jaw in its natural position is just forward of the upper and cannot be moved back to any extent. Has anyone dealt with the subtone subject with any degree of scientific rigor, so that the technique may be adopted by just about all players regardless of lip, jaw and other features. I hope you might have some answers to my questions and possibly suggest a method taking into account the undesirable lip and jaw configuration that I have been bestowed with. Thank you,
Wow. Thanks for your long message, and I totally hear you. The most scientific book I've ever come across on saxophone embouchure and anatomy etc is by Dr Mark Watkins and it's called "From The Inside Out". That's my best tip!
MERCI A VOUS
Thanks for watching, merci, and let me know if there's anything else I can do for you. J:-)
Clever !
Not sure if it's clever or not, but it's certainly a lush sound and takes away the potential QE2 factor! lol
Get Your Sax Together Never even thought to try something like that with jaw. Really cool and nice sound.
This used to be the normal sound for saxophonist 😁 plus I find that the sax needs to be completely ‘leak’ free.
Yup, 100%. The sax needs to seal perfectly for sure. And yes, subtone used to be much more the norm, great observation. J:-)
Here is another lesson on subtone. It's good to have different perspectives I think. ruclips.net/video/yVHY0JSN8Ko/видео.html Sirvalorsax
I'm a big fan 👍
@@GetYourSaxTogether I wonder if my mouthpiece is a good one for producing subtone ?? I have a Theo Wanne Slant Sig with #6 tip opening. What do you think ?
@@davidcox8961 sure. Why not!
@@GetYourSaxTogether Why not? Because Sirvalorsax mentioned in his lesson about subtone to get a large tip opening and chamber. Cheers!
@@davidcox8961 you can subtone on any mouthpiece, but definitely a 6 slant.