get some good readings, measure or at least accurately estimate your FTP and start doing sweet spot training. If you're new to structured training it will do wonders in relatively short time and without straining you too much.
Got it month ago. Hugely motivational and gives a lot more structured approach to my rides. Hilly terrain has alot more offer to me now than it previously had. Been riding year and a half, and main issue has been lack of reliable data and i have had no glue how i've improved over the time because conditions are almost never the same. Getting my watts helps hugely to put everything into perspective, both short and long term. As a strength athlete i consider power meter to be almost the same thing as knowing how much my plates weight on my barbell. Which is pretty basic information.
Just started 1 year ago and realized I should've done it as soon as I could afford one. But I think that availability of information (i.e. internet) is what really makes power meters useful tools. With no knowledge on how to train with power then is just another number to look at.
Absolutely! I find they're particularly useful in helping me rein myself back when doing hill repeats. I finish in less overall time, with less maximum wattage, and feel better, as well. Worth every penny (I use Assioma Duo pedals so I can swap them easily between bikes).
You need a power meter, heartrate monitor, and a cadence sensor. I got each of these a year apart and while it provided good information, when you see all 3 working together and how it all effects the other, it felt like entering the matrix. You know what gear and cadence to be at a certain watt so your heartrate stabilizes in the aerobic zone so you can build up for a big anaerobic effort when required.
I come from the world of trail/fell running. I was using a heart rate monitor for a few years but at some point I realized that too much information is just stressing you out. ( I remember switching off my watch when the alarm set for 180 BPM was constantly ringing during a 119km race in the Alps. ) So while gadgets could be a useful tool if you are a beginner the more experience you get the less dependent you are on equipment and gadgets.
Loved this. Ollie is so good at going in-depth and explaining in a really relatable way. Everything you really need to know! Let this man loose on all cycling subjects!
I'd love a video on how to buy a power meter. Seems to cost a million quid for the power meter, bike computer, and then you've gotta replace the either your pedals or crankset. Totally lost and feeling very poor having googled em
Hang around on eBay patiently. But even then they aren't cheap. I got a 2-sided vector 2 for £350 after about a month of bidding. It's a good Investment if you want to improve and you can get the money together.
247MS1 luckily prices are coming down a bit, I guess it’s all relative! Decide: do you need a two sided (helps you spot asymmetries) or is one sided sufficient? What kind of bottom bracket & groupset do you have ? What’s your max budget? With those questions answered you should be able to pick amongst the main brands/models easily. Quark, 4iii, Stages, Power2max, SRM.
Then GPLama is your guy. Check his channel on youtube and also this list: gplama.com/powermeter-guide/ But if you don't already have a bike computer then get that first as well as a heart rate strap and cadence sensor and worry about power later. See what Garmin and Wahoo have.
Yeah - I picked up a Garmin watch with heart rate monitor so I could use it cycling and cross country skiing. Picked up a new fancy bike. Now I'm adding speed/cadence/heart rate sensors (heart sensor so I can put the Garmin watch on the bars as bike computer). Start of next season I'm going for a Garmin Edge. Maybe, if I save really hard, I can get the power meter by the end of next summer. I thought cycling was going to be a cheap hobby. Oops.
oddly enough all the people I know that have them and are always training never ever show up at local races so not sure what they are doing all that training for.
I was about to refer to the specifics of power while seated or standing & then tight at 14:50 of the video you addressed the topic head on. Well done mate ✔️
The cost of a *quality* power meter and head unit is the main reason aspiring racers can't and don't use them. And the irony is hilarious, because you gotta be financially established to afford those, yet manufacturers gear them for beginner racers -- whom are usually poor. They're so cost-prohibitive that even I don't get how the technology has to be so expensive, when I can buy a great desktop computer for $1000.00 USD (with an awesome GPU), which is the cost of a *quality* power meter and head unit. You can get them cheaper, but then you're left with catches that will end up costing you more money later anyway. I just try save my money and buy important things that I can afford for my bike, and that cannot include the cost of power meters and head units. A rich dude's like, "well, just spend $1000.00 usd. Don't you got that floating around?"
fully agree. Eddy Merckx trained for and won the TdF w/o a powermeter. different times...anyways - if you're not in pro-cycling, you woun't really need all those gadgets. for me - having fun on the bike is much more important than training acc. to some numbers :)
19:50 I think you have things the wrong way around. You should assume 25% metabolic efficiency so that you do not over estimate calories used. If you assume 20% efficiency you would calculate a larger number of calories used. Apart from that it was a good video.
Andrew is correct. There's an error in the formula - you need to divide by the efficiency, not multiply. 418Kj measured by the power meter is approximately 418 Kcal burned by the body.
@@melembree8112 kcal, not calories. anyway, as Andrew pointed out, you have to divide by the efficiency: energy input = useful work / efficiency, as the definition of efficiency is like: efficiency = useful work / energy input acc. to the laws of thermodynamics energy input >= useful work, otherwise you've invented the perpetuum mobile ;)
Excellent video. Really well explained, thank you. I may be an ageing leisure cyclist, but I am off to look at power meters to work out my numbers and get better!
I think that you guys could develop a great series of videos focused on how to continue to ride at a high level as you get "older" (read more experienced). I am talking about 50+ riders. We of that vintage still love to hoover up the county line sprints from the young bucks out there so I am sure it would be a very popular series. Get folks like Ned Overend to chime in.
recently got myself Favero Assioma pedals... Why I didnt make a power meter purchase earlier in my cycling career i have no idea... could have helped me so much in my training and fitness
Hi Ollie, you may want to check that formula on screen. You take the measured KJ and convert to Kilocalories by dividing by 4.2 divide by efficiency (not multiply) to gross up to actual work done by the body. Sorry the mathematician in me couldn’t bear to see that and not comment
Yes, the video was wrong and both operations need to be a division: First divide by 4.1868, then divide by efficiency (usually 0.2 to 0.25). But the end result isn't "work done by the body," it's "calories consumed." The work done by the body is the original KJ figure. For anyone who is at 23.88% biomechanical efficiency, the figures for KJ and calories consumed will be the same (using "dietary" calories which are technically kilocal). Most well-trained cyclists fall into the 23-24% range. For less-fit persons who are at about 22%, the calorie figure will be 8-9% higher than the KJ figure, and for sedentary or untrained folks at about 20% efficiency, the calorie figure will be 19-20% higher than the KJ figure. But studies have shown that efficiency can be as low as 16% when obesity is present, even in youths. That is fortunate, as it means seriously overweight persons can burn more calories at the same power output.
Ollie-enjoyed v much-thank you. I think it has been picked up in different ways in the other comments but it is worth correcting the stated maths-once calculating the work done you don’t multiply it by your efficiency you multiply by 1/efficiency , so 1/0.25 = 4 getting us close to 1 kJ = 1kCal
You're absolutely right. Nice informative video, but it is a shame that the math is off. Also due to the this error yous should assume an efficiency of 25% instead of the 20% to be on the conservative side for weight loss, but who is counting calories anyways.
I bought a good bike. I picked up a Garmin watch with heart rate monitor. I'm adding Garmin speed and cadence sensors this month (oh, and heart rate monitor, so I can put the watch on the bars). I plan to add a Garmin edge for the start of next season. I'm thinking that by the end of next season I can add some sort of power meter. This is what I can afford, and when. When I bought my first bike, I thought I was going to be saving a lot of money by driving my car less. Why didn't you tell me!?
Powermeters are great for keeping you in check at the start of really long rides and for showing you the error of your ways. In one 400km ride, I couldn't figure out why I was so stuffed - until i looked at the data afterwards and saw that getting out of the saddle to keep the speed going up all the little bridges and overpasses (of which there was around 70) made it a 400km ride with 70 intervals thrown in. Not ideal.
Very timely. Just started using my Faveros just a day ago. I'm lovin' it and indeed very useful especially for someone like me who goes to work by bike.
#askgcn I don't have a power meter yet on my road bike, but I do have a wahoo kickr with zwift. My ftp and average watts per indoor ride appears WAY larger than my "strava estimated" average wattage on outdoor rides with my mates. That seems contrary to what Ollie is saying. What could be the explanation.
Same here. I recently made the same sort of moderate to hard effort on indoor and outdoor rides according to my HRM, Strava reckoned 140W whilst my Stac Zero Halcyon smart trainer said >210W. In the winter I ride a steel tourer with guards and rack which might partly explain it, but in the summer on my Rossin road bike I see no more than 180W on Strava when my FTP is 240W. To add insult to injury when I used to ride with work colleagues bit and bit, they had consistently much higher wattages (and more feet ascended) on Strava from their various GPS devices than I had from my Garmin when I was just as fast, but heavier and on a heavier (steel) bike with fewer gears!
Great vid as always. Any insight on any up and coming, cheap brands who are causing a stir as an alternative to the big hitters? Power meters are hugely beneficial but extremely expensive!
1kJ=1kCal is used quite frequently when referring to work done vs food calories consumed. The human metabolism is, on average, about 25% efficient, so 1kJ of mechanical work done does indeed consume approximately 1kcal of food calories. The 1J = 1W is inexcusable of course :)
Actually not quite. What they mean is kJ produced according to your powermeter equals (kilo)calories burned by your body. 1 calorie = 4.2 Joules, multiplied by an efficiency between 0.2 and 0.25 is about 1. Makes perfect sense. They only could have made the difference between kJ_produced and calories burned clearer....
Soooo many folk get notions of energy and power confused: Ollie was right, but the caption at 16:55 was wrong. Joules are a measure of _energy_ -- the potential to perform work. Watts are a measure of _power_ -- energy used per unit time. Ollie was completely correct that a joule is the energy required to produce one watt for one second, although it's usually phrased the other way around: one watt is the use of one joule every second. The caption at 16:55 should have read "1 watt = 1 joule per second". The kilojoule and the kilocalorie are _both_ measures of energy, and 1kcal happens to be roughly 4kJ. So, taking into account the 25% efficiency in human energy conversion, saying "1 kJ = 1kcal" is good enough for the purpose.
Would be interesting to see a comparison of different brand and types of power meters and their pros and cons instead of an infomercial. As you put in in the end, "please like and subscribe". What for? You don't make programs for the benefit of the viewer. You make commercials for cycling related companies, then supply said companies with an audience.
Really enjoyed being annoyed by loads of intrusive ads - especially the weight loss one featuring people who look as though they'd actually put on 10 times more weight than they're claiming to have lost - maybe it's pitched at the US. :-) Difficult to follow the video because of the interruptions.
I ride with a Garmin Fenix 5x plus watch, a Cadence sensor and a Heart rate strap. When my ride is shown on Strava, I get an average power calculated by Strava. I wonder how accurate is it. My age and weight are known by my Garmin connect app. Has someone compared the calculated average Power to the power measured by a Powermeter?
Depend on Too Much Factor the number it give me on my Gravel bike was 50-60% lower than my powermeter. But if guess rolling on 40mm tire on dirt is n'ont the same effort /speed than 25mm on pavement!
There's a mis-spoke in 19:55, if you want to get a more conservative number of calories, you should use the higher number, that is 25% not 20%. If you use 20%, let's say, you worked 20Kcal on your power meter, you burned 20/0.2=100Kcal, use 25% you burned 20/0.25=80Kcal. The commonly used equation video mentioned, 1KJ=1Calorie, actually comes from the 25% efficiency assumption. Actually from KJoule to Kcal, you divide by 4.06, but the gross efficiency is 25%, you then multiply by 4. That's also what your Garmin uses. The divide and multiply roughly negate each other, so that it's roughly the same figure on the numbers.
Norwegian rider Carl Fredrik Hagen actually drops the powermeter for the Giro. He will not use it due to weigth. The Ridley bike Lotto Soudal uses are a bit heavy he thinks. Hope he does well in the Giro. He was great in the 2019 Vuelta. And personally i don't care for them. I feel that the pro cycling has become a bit more boring after they started using them in races. So it's not for me. Keep up the good work.
The math looks wrong. You should take Work/effective_efficiency to get total work. We should divide 0.25 or 0.20 instead of multiply. When someone is 50% eff, they burned two times less power than someone who is 0.25 eff. If we use multiply, then for 100 cal, then we would say the 50% person burned 50 cal when the 25% person burn 25 cal. But this makes no sense, the 25% person is less efficient. How did they burn less calories for the same effort?
I guess my ftp is 300 so I do 375W unstructured intervals i.e. I add up my time riding at 375W e.g. 30 minutes. So I ride up and down a dual carriage way for 90 minutes until I get a total of 30 minutes. I hardly ever go to failure. Then one day I decided to test my 20 minute power for the first time. So I guessed at 330 - 350W as something to keep nudging. I managed 337 W for 30 minutes and I always felt I had to keep holding back (Hr 160) I was always scared to test my self as sometimes it felt hard to do 2 minutes at 300W But this type of training seemed to do the trick. I am 60 yo 83Kg I do 3 X 29 miles fast commuting per week. One thing I have noticed, it's quite hard to go that little faster. My goal this year is to do 400W for 5 minutes I can do 375 quite easily but getting that extra 25W seems impossible. I think it's just a question of keeping the power at 400 as I tend to aim for 430W to average 400W keeping power low but CONSISTENT seems to be key to getting a high average power and hence a good average speed. Just my experience as a numbers nerd with no life. Hope this helps someone. Hope to get into chainganging soon then it repeated accelerations of 750W uuugh!!!
I borrowed a friends bike which had a power meter fitted, and after zeroing it, I went for a 1 hour steady ride to see what I thought of the bike. Whilst out, I decided on the spur of the moment to go full gas up a 10% incline for around 100m. The power meter came back with approx 780 Watts for that effort - it was about 35kmh but by the time I got to the top, I was done. It's still the highest wattage I've ever pulled. I've just bought a power meter myself, and can't wait to fit it and get out on the bike.
Otherwise excellent advice from Ollie tarnished by GCN taking money from Shimano to promote a fundamentally flawed product. Most would be better off with a cheap heart rate strap than the Shimano power meter.
Idea for the next video: Calories burned and efficiency. When it's 100F outside, my body is working much harder to maintain 98.6F than when I'm inside and it's 72F. So when I am on the bike and the power meter says I burnt 500 calories when it was 72F and 500 calories when it is 100F, how many more calories did I burn when it was hotter? Over an hour I bet this adds up a lot. I'd also guess that some people are much better (efficient) at maintaining 98.6 than others.
I beg to differ on your opinion of HR versus power. It's true HR is variable given the environment. It is however also known that the physiology of your body is also variable. This means that when you train purely based on power you will have a different training effect given different environmental conditions for the same power. I do some training by power and some by HR. Ideally I would always have information on both, but there is no reason to prefer one above the other, it's always a combination of both.
I know old video no one cares but I'm pretty sure you need to divide by the efficiency, not multiply since your body needs to use 4 or 5 times (0.25 or 0.2) the amount of energy (calories) to produce the power you measure with the power meter
Throughout the video we see clips of Ollie riding his red/black Orbea but if you look closely, at 20:24 there's a shot of Hank riding a red/black Dogma. This clip just so happens to come after a cheeky comment about how everyone will be so excited to hear all about your 5 watt gain. Very subtle - keep up the good work mates!
Would be good to get a follow-up on this perhaps coupled with The 1000 watt challenge on setting the typical 6-7 power zones seen on devices with your max effort results for 5 s, 1 min, 5 min etc instead of their usual % FTP based zone. Asking because my FTP is ~200 but my 5 s is 1200 and 1 min is 400+ so zone 7 120% FTP of 320 doesn’t seem right?!
Torque is a good field to have on your computer and % of FTP which reads like a potentiometer whilst riding is really handy, forget the numbers/WATTS, they jump around like a spring.. Once you get an FTP it'll only vary if you're MEGA FIT so it'll generally be the same. Trainings a combination of Power initially, cadence then HR...measuring and pacing to a ride.
Oh come on! talking about powermeters and only mentioning one product which in reality costs more than a fully budget level bike - not cool cool. with such price tag, this is not even a consideration for most of the amature cyclists...
gcn needs to find some better roads with less traffic. Pretty painful to watch a video where the rider and camera man are obviously holding up cars behind them
Hi Ollie, I have an Ebike, would it be worthwhile getting a power metre for it, as I often do climb hills, and I'd like to know my cadance and power levels with the climbs
Euhm....Ollie....i called my Mum.....started talking about my PowerNumbers....and after one minute i noticed she d hung up.....i guess she s not interested.
Yes, by all means, talk about your power numbers. Then watch as your friends put those numbers to the test by trying to ride away from you as quickly as possible. Makes for some great interval training.
@10:40 Ollie says he can produce a better 5 min power on a climb than on a flat, I find the same thing with my climbing power way above what I can do on flat. Can anyone explain why this would be?
I’ll argue that for non-competitive cyclists seeking to get fitter, a heart rate monitor is the better tool. You want to pace your effort depending on whether you have a better or worse day, how much you’ve had for sleep etc., and your heart rate reflects all of that, so it is a better indication of how your body is doing. Also as you get fitter over time, you will be able to exert more power at the same heart rate, and you can maintain a training effort relative to your own condition by maintaining your heart rate. For objective numbers, and comparing your performance to others, of course a power meter is better.
Hey Ian. Thanks for your feedback. As you say, without the ads, there wouldn't be any videos to watch. They're a necessity of running a channel that produces daily content at no cost to our audience I'm afraid. Hopefully, you're still able to enjoy some of our videos!
After many, many years of happily riding without a PM I finally kinda fell into one on a new bike and I have to say I am surprised how much I like using it to guide my efforts. I suppose most cyclists are data hounds on some level right? I mean, I am no where near the athlete I used to be, but it is still fun to apply some of the modern training logic that is so much more available out there and understandable than in years gone by when it was all mysterious whispers and secrets...
I like the fact that you differentiated between doing a FTP test on the flats compared to doing them on a hill. I dont think doing them on a hill is as real world as opposed to doing them on the flats. Cadence I think is another factor that should be considered as well. If you typically spin then your test should reflect a good rpm otherwise if you grind it out for the bigger numbers than those are not likely numbers you will hold for an hour.
I'd be really interested in tips about how to carry out tests outdoors - in finding a route to ride, what am I looking for, how far from home to get in a warm up? Also, these often ask for a target FTP ahead of the test. Some tips on how to select that number would be good!
Must be such a hard life which bike to superbike to use before each ride. Pinarello, orbea choices choices...btw where does Oli live.... just asking for a mate 😉
Do you use a powermeter? How does it help you with your riding? Let us know in the comments 👇
get some good readings, measure or at least accurately estimate your FTP and start doing sweet spot training. If you're new to structured training it will do wonders in relatively short time and without straining you too much.
my smart trainer has it, and helps me a lot training for ultra distances ;)
hopefully will set one on my bike soon
Got it month ago. Hugely motivational and gives a lot more structured approach to my rides. Hilly terrain has alot more offer to me now than it previously had. Been riding year and a half, and main issue has been lack of reliable data and i have had no glue how i've improved over the time because conditions are almost never the same. Getting my watts helps hugely to put everything into perspective, both short and long term.
As a strength athlete i consider power meter to be almost the same thing as knowing how much my plates weight on my barbell. Which is pretty basic information.
Just started 1 year ago and realized I should've done it as soon as I could afford one. But I think that availability of information (i.e. internet) is what really makes power meters useful tools. With no knowledge on how to train with power then is just another number to look at.
Absolutely! I find they're particularly useful in helping me rein myself back when doing hill repeats. I finish in less overall time, with less maximum wattage, and feel better, as well. Worth every penny (I use Assioma Duo pedals so I can swap them easily between bikes).
Most power meters cost more than my bike
real
Love Ollie's *subtle* hour record attempt reference... "an hour full gas... Who wants to do that?". :P
Oh, I missed that. NOT!
You need a power meter, heartrate monitor, and a cadence sensor. I got each of these a year apart and while it provided good information, when you see all 3 working together and how it all effects the other, it felt like entering the matrix. You know what gear and cadence to be at a certain watt so your heartrate stabilizes in the aerobic zone so you can build up for a big anaerobic effort when required.
I come from the world of trail/fell running. I was using a heart rate monitor for a few years but at some point I realized that too much information is just stressing you out. ( I remember switching off my watch when the alarm set for 180 BPM was constantly ringing during a 119km race in the Alps. ) So while gadgets could be a useful tool if you are a beginner the more experience you get the less dependent you are on equipment and gadgets.
Agreed! It seems like a waste of money to gather data that just tells me to ride harder ride longer. So effin what?
I really enjoy watching all Ollie’s videos. He’s very informative and entertaining. This is probably one of my favorite videos!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Loved this. Ollie is so good at going in-depth and explaining in a really relatable way. Everything you really need to know! Let this man loose on all cycling subjects!
I'd love a video on how to buy a power meter. Seems to cost a million quid for the power meter, bike computer, and then you've gotta replace the either your pedals or crankset. Totally lost and feeling very poor having googled em
Hang around on eBay patiently. But even then they aren't cheap. I got a 2-sided vector 2 for £350 after about a month of bidding. It's a good Investment if you want to improve and you can get the money together.
247MS1 luckily prices are coming down a bit, I guess it’s all relative! Decide: do you need a two sided (helps you spot asymmetries) or is one sided sufficient? What kind of bottom bracket & groupset do you have ? What’s your max budget? With those questions answered you should be able to pick amongst the main brands/models easily. Quark, 4iii, Stages, Power2max, SRM.
Check out dc rainmaker buying comparison tool
Then GPLama is your guy. Check his channel on youtube and also this list: gplama.com/powermeter-guide/
But if you don't already have a bike computer then get that first as well as a heart rate strap and cadence sensor and worry about power later. See what Garmin and Wahoo have.
Yeah - I picked up a Garmin watch with heart rate monitor so I could use it cycling and cross country skiing. Picked up a new fancy bike. Now I'm adding speed/cadence/heart rate sensors (heart sensor so I can put the Garmin watch on the bars as bike computer). Start of next season I'm going for a Garmin Edge. Maybe, if I save really hard, I can get the power meter by the end of next summer. I thought cycling was going to be a cheap hobby. Oops.
I'm not sure why I'm watching this, I don't even train, nevermind own a power meter.
But at least we learn something everyday, even if its useless for the time being
oddly enough all the people I know that have them and are always training never ever show up at local races so not sure what they are doing all that training for.
That's correct, if you're not into training (and I wasn't for most of my cycling life) then you don't need one
@@nickw6175 Getting themselves fitter? Following their progression? Liking data?
@@Try2Tri nothing wrong with that I just like to see folks try and push themselves I always think competing is the best way
you guys should make a behind the scenes video. it would be interesting to see how you film it all
I was thinking that too...
Si and Dan did one a while ago. ruclips.net/video/O1SRv05G_Hk/видео.html Bit of an advert for some airline but still interesting.
I'd be up for seeing that.
Good idea! More of brother-in-law Nigel 👍
19:02 you got the divides and multiplies mixed up.
I learned the typical human efficiency is 20-25%
I was about to refer to the specifics of power while seated or standing & then tight at 14:50 of the video you addressed the topic head on. Well done mate ✔️
The cost of a *quality* power meter and head unit is the main reason aspiring racers can't and don't use them. And the irony is hilarious, because you gotta be financially established to afford those, yet manufacturers gear them for beginner racers -- whom are usually poor. They're so cost-prohibitive that even I don't get how the technology has to be so expensive, when I can buy a great desktop computer for $1000.00 USD (with an awesome GPU), which is the cost of a *quality* power meter and head unit. You can get them cheaper, but then you're left with catches that will end up costing you more money later anyway. I just try save my money and buy important things that I can afford for my bike, and that cannot include the cost of power meters and head units. A rich dude's like, "well, just spend $1000.00 usd. Don't you got that floating around?"
I really hear you. I'm piecing together my metrics bit by bit. Using a Garmin watch as a head unit, adding cadence and speed sensors soon.
fully agree. Eddy Merckx trained for and won the TdF w/o a powermeter. different times...anyways - if you're not in pro-cycling, you woun't really need all those gadgets. for me - having fun on the bike is much more important than training acc. to some numbers :)
19:50 I think you have things the wrong way around. You should assume 25% metabolic efficiency so that you do not over estimate calories used. If you assume 20% efficiency you would calculate a larger number of calories used. Apart from that it was a good video.
No, do the math. Metabolic efficiency does not correlate directly to gas mileage in Ollie’s John Wick example. (418.4kj/4.184) x 0.2= 20 calories,
(418.4kj/4.184) x 0.25 = 25 calories
Andrew is correct. There's an error in the formula - you need to divide by the efficiency, not multiply. 418Kj measured by the power meter is approximately 418 Kcal burned by the body.
@@melembree8112 kcal, not calories. anyway, as Andrew pointed out, you have to divide by the efficiency:
energy input = useful work / efficiency, as the definition of efficiency is like: efficiency = useful work / energy input
acc. to the laws of thermodynamics energy input >= useful work, otherwise you've invented the perpetuum mobile ;)
It is interesting to note that gasoline engines typically 20-25% efficient much like a human cyclist! Just imagine the VO2 max of a 500 BHP engine.
@GCN Ollie seems to be pretty happy riding out after a long lockdown! Great video as always
Planning to have Powermeters on my coming Gravel bike so big big thanks for that input...had some of it in mind but definitely not all. 😎👍
Sits here with my £30 Cateye cycle computer :P
Which has Speed, Cal, CO2, Clock, Timer, Avg, Max, Trip Distance, Odo Distance. All that with no need of GPS and battery lasts years!!!!
*sits here without a bike*
Lmao same, I can see my speed and distance and that’s about all I need for now
Excellent video. Really well explained, thank you. I may be an ageing leisure cyclist, but I am off to look at power meters to work out my numbers and get better!
I think that you guys could develop a great series of videos focused on how to continue to ride at a high level as you get "older" (read more experienced). I am talking about 50+ riders. We of that vintage still love to hoover up the county line sprints from the young bucks out there so I am sure it would be a very popular series. Get folks like Ned Overend to chime in.
recently got myself Favero Assioma pedals... Why I didnt make a power meter purchase earlier in my cycling career i have no idea... could have helped me so much in my training and fitness
Love mine. Worth every penny.
Same here, back in the day the power I put into the pedals was astronomical so I can only guess and would have loved all the tech back then...
Best bike purchase I've ever made! That's no lie.
Best PM on the market, period.
Love the juxtaposition of talking weight loss whilst sitting outside Bristol’s best chip shop...
Hahaha. If you know, you know.
I think pros should not use power meters in races. Training perfect, but it really sucks the fun out of mountain stages.
Great video, but I'm not entirely sure I can justify fitting a £1500 power meter system to a £350 5 year old bike 🤣🤣🤣
Hi Ollie, you may want to check that formula on screen. You take the measured KJ and convert to Kilocalories by dividing by 4.2 divide by efficiency (not multiply) to gross up to actual work done by the body. Sorry the mathematician in me couldn’t bear to see that and not comment
Yes, the video was wrong and both operations need to be a division: First divide by 4.1868, then divide by efficiency (usually 0.2 to 0.25). But the end result isn't "work done by the body," it's "calories consumed." The work done by the body is the original KJ figure.
For anyone who is at 23.88% biomechanical efficiency, the figures for KJ and calories consumed will be the same (using "dietary" calories which are technically kilocal). Most well-trained cyclists fall into the 23-24% range. For less-fit persons who are at about 22%, the calorie figure will be 8-9% higher than the KJ figure, and for sedentary or untrained folks at about 20% efficiency, the calorie figure will be 19-20% higher than the KJ figure.
But studies have shown that efficiency can be as low as 16% when obesity is present, even in youths. That is fortunate, as it means seriously overweight persons can burn more calories at the same power output.
Ollie-enjoyed v much-thank you. I think it has been picked up in different ways in the other comments but it is worth correcting the stated maths-once calculating the work done you don’t multiply it by your efficiency you multiply by 1/efficiency , so 1/0.25 = 4 getting us close to 1 kJ = 1kCal
You're absolutely right. Nice informative video, but it is a shame that the math is off.
Also due to the this error yous should assume an efficiency of 25% instead of the 20% to be on the conservative side for weight loss, but who is counting calories anyways.
This shimano power meter still suffers from a right left balance issue doesn't it?
Correct
Does it still also have accuracy issues?
@@gplama Apart from the balance problem. Is this unit still capable of reliably reporting other power metrics such as total power or 3s average?
No, there were some inconsistencies when they were first made but those products were all recalled in 2018 and none were released for sale anyway.
@@marcbearman2756 So are you saying that this unit bought on a canyon aeroad today is a reliable unit without any issues?
the guy with the mullet just told you to throw your ego away 👌🏽👌🏽
I bought a good bike. I picked up a Garmin watch with heart rate monitor. I'm adding Garmin speed and cadence sensors this month (oh, and heart rate monitor, so I can put the watch on the bars). I plan to add a Garmin edge for the start of next season. I'm thinking that by the end of next season I can add some sort of power meter. This is what I can afford, and when. When I bought my first bike, I thought I was going to be saving a lot of money by driving my car less. Why didn't you tell me!?
Yo Ollie - you DIVIDE by the efficiency. If you efficiency is 0.2 you multiply your kcal by 5 to get food Calories burned.
Powermeters are great for keeping you in check at the start of really long rides and for showing you the error of your ways. In one 400km ride, I couldn't figure out why I was so stuffed - until i looked at the data afterwards and saw that getting out of the saddle to keep the speed going up all the little bridges and overpasses (of which there was around 70) made it a 400km ride with 70 intervals thrown in. Not ideal.
How about without power meter for most people who cannot afford them?
Very timely. Just started using my Faveros just a day ago. I'm lovin' it and indeed very useful especially for someone like me who goes to work by bike.
Great to hear!
Best pm by far.
Never buying one. A speedo and lights is as far as I go. Anything else is mental bondage to numbers and ride stats for me.
Having a power meter is the epitome of a love hate relationship
#askgcn I don't have a power meter yet on my road bike, but I do have a wahoo kickr with zwift. My ftp and average watts per indoor ride appears WAY larger than my "strava estimated" average wattage on outdoor rides with my mates. That seems contrary to what Ollie is saying. What could be the explanation.
Same here. I recently made the same sort of moderate to hard effort on indoor and outdoor rides according to my HRM, Strava reckoned 140W whilst my Stac Zero Halcyon smart trainer said >210W. In the winter I ride a steel tourer with guards and rack which might partly explain it, but in the summer on my Rossin road bike I see no more than 180W on Strava when my FTP is 240W. To add insult to injury when I used to ride with work colleagues bit and bit, they had consistently much higher wattages (and more feet ascended) on Strava from their various GPS devices than I had from my Garmin when I was just as fast, but heavier and on a heavier (steel) bike with fewer gears!
Great vid as always. Any insight on any up and coming, cheap brands who are causing a stir as an alternative to the big hitters? Power meters are hugely beneficial but extremely expensive!
The Castelli GCN jersey looks so clean!
the Formula at 19:00 must be kJ/4.164/0.2 or 0.25 = kcal expenditure and not kJ/4.164x0.2 or 0.25 kcal expenditure SNCR
"1 Joule = 1 Watt" written at 16:55
"1 kJ = 1 kcal" written at 19:17 or in other words "1 = 4.18".
I get what you're trying to say, but yikes guys...
LOL. Well he did qualify it earlier by saying that the whole topic is full of inaccuracies and guesstimates. :-)
1kJ=1kCal is used quite frequently when referring to work done vs food calories consumed. The human metabolism is, on average, about 25% efficient, so 1kJ of mechanical work done does indeed consume approximately 1kcal of food calories. The 1J = 1W is inexcusable of course :)
Actually not quite. What they mean is kJ produced according to your powermeter equals (kilo)calories burned by your body. 1 calorie = 4.2 Joules, multiplied by an efficiency between 0.2 and 0.25 is about 1. Makes perfect sense. They only could have made the difference between kJ_produced and calories burned clearer....
16:55: the text is wrong but Ollie is saying it right: 1 J = 1 Ws (Watt x second)
Soooo many folk get notions of energy and power confused: Ollie was right, but the caption at 16:55 was wrong. Joules are a measure of _energy_ -- the potential to perform work. Watts are a measure of _power_ -- energy used per unit time. Ollie was completely correct that a joule is the energy required to produce one watt for one second, although it's usually phrased the other way around: one watt is the use of one joule every second. The caption at 16:55 should have read "1 watt = 1 joule per second".
The kilojoule and the kilocalorie are _both_ measures of energy, and 1kcal happens to be roughly 4kJ. So, taking into account the 25% efficiency in human energy conversion, saying "1 kJ = 1kcal" is good enough for the purpose.
Would be interesting to see a comparison of different brand and types of power meters and their pros and cons instead of an infomercial. As you put in in the end, "please like and subscribe". What for? You don't make programs for the benefit of the viewer. You make commercials for cycling related companies, then supply said companies with an audience.
Ollie is the "to-go" guy when you need somebody to explain something to you. You can tell there is an university background there.
Great Video! Good explanations and you are focusing on the right aspects of training with power!
God damn! Ollie is outside. The actual outside, the inverse of inside.
When we have power meter, should we buy speed and cadence sensor too?
I got a power metre for my birthday on friday. Love it
Really enjoyed being annoyed by loads of intrusive ads - especially the weight loss one featuring people who look as though they'd actually put on 10 times more weight than they're claiming to have lost - maybe it's pitched at the US. :-) Difficult to follow the video because of the interruptions.
The SHIMANO power meter has one of the worst reviews on DC Rainmaker. Is GCN getting paid by Shimano for this video?
Pretty good basics. I still don't know how truly useful a $500+ investment will help me improve.
Powermeters, for not even being new tech is incredibly expensive.......
It used to be far more expensive when it was new technology.
To be honest, they are fairly cheap compared to the rest of the bike.
I am my own power meter. For god sake listen to your body not a crutch. Soon we won't recognized or need too pedal a bike.
Great intro to power meters. Yes, please do another video on how to choose one according to your needs, budget etc. Thanks Ollie
thanks, now I'm sure I won't ever need to get close to a power meter. one gear anxiety less.
You may not have to be a Pro to own a Power Meter,.....................but Winning the Lottery may Help you to own one, you seen the Price of them.
Head unit? What head unit? I don't have one. Does this mean I can't use a power meter with just my smartphone and relevant app?
I ride with a Garmin Fenix 5x plus watch, a Cadence sensor and a Heart rate strap. When my ride is shown on Strava, I get an average power calculated by Strava. I wonder how accurate is it.
My age and weight are known by my Garmin connect app.
Has someone compared the calculated average Power to the power measured by a Powermeter?
I'm going for a similar setup - just have an older Garmin watch.
Depend on Too Much Factor the number it give me on my Gravel bike was 50-60% lower than my powermeter. But if guess rolling on 40mm tire on dirt is n'ont the same effort /speed than 25mm on pavement!
I just want a video where you set it up and use it and look at the interface and stuff. Those details are still murky after watching several videos.
sponsored by Shimano but no link to the Shimano product?
Never seen a video with as much advertising! Zwift every 2 minutes and some American clothing brand. Irritating!
There's a mis-spoke in 19:55, if you want to get a more conservative number of calories, you should use the higher number, that is 25% not 20%. If you use 20%, let's say, you worked 20Kcal on your power meter, you burned 20/0.2=100Kcal, use 25% you burned 20/0.25=80Kcal. The commonly used equation video mentioned, 1KJ=1Calorie, actually comes from the 25% efficiency assumption. Actually from KJoule to Kcal, you divide by 4.06, but the gross efficiency is 25%, you then multiply by 4. That's also what your Garmin uses. The divide and multiply roughly negate each other, so that it's roughly the same figure on the numbers.
You never explained the advantages/disadvantages of different locations for power meters. Any chance in the near future? Thank a lot!
Most Pro’s tell Junior’s to stay away from power meters when we are younger but what is your opinion on Junior riders riding to power?
Good question
Get an mtb or cross bike instead I reckon
Norwegian rider Carl Fredrik Hagen actually drops the powermeter for the Giro.
He will not use it due to weigth.
The Ridley bike Lotto Soudal uses are a bit heavy he thinks.
Hope he does well in the Giro.
He was great in the 2019 Vuelta.
And personally i don't care for them.
I feel that the pro cycling has become a bit more boring after they started using them in races.
So it's not for me.
Keep up the good work.
The math looks wrong. You should take Work/effective_efficiency to get total work. We should divide 0.25 or 0.20 instead of multiply. When someone is 50% eff, they burned two times less power than someone who is 0.25 eff. If we use multiply, then for 100 cal, then we would say the 50% person burned 50 cal when the 25% person burn 25 cal. But this makes no sense, the 25% person is less efficient. How did they burn less calories for the same effort?
I guess my ftp is 300 so I do 375W unstructured intervals i.e. I add up my time riding at 375W e.g. 30 minutes. So I ride up and down a dual carriage way for 90 minutes until I get a total of 30 minutes. I hardly ever go to failure.
Then one day I decided to test my 20 minute power for the first time. So I guessed at 330 - 350W as something to keep nudging. I managed 337 W for 30 minutes and I always felt I had to keep holding back (Hr 160)
I was always scared to test my self as sometimes it felt hard to do 2 minutes at 300W But this type of training seemed to do the trick. I am 60 yo 83Kg I do 3 X 29 miles fast commuting per week. One thing I have noticed, it's quite hard to go that little faster. My goal this year is to do 400W for 5 minutes I can do 375 quite easily but getting that extra 25W seems impossible. I think it's just a question of keeping the power at 400 as I tend to aim for 430W to average 400W
keeping power low but CONSISTENT seems to be key to getting a high average power and hence a good average speed. Just my experience as a numbers nerd with no life. Hope this helps someone. Hope to get into chainganging soon then it repeated accelerations of 750W uuugh!!!
I borrowed a friends bike which had a power meter fitted, and after zeroing it, I went for a 1 hour steady ride to see what I thought of the bike. Whilst out, I decided on the spur of the moment to go full gas up a 10% incline for around 100m. The power meter came back with approx 780 Watts for that effort - it was about 35kmh but by the time I got to the top, I was done. It's still the highest wattage I've ever pulled. I've just bought a power meter myself, and can't wait to fit it and get out on the bike.
I had a power meter for 3 years, it was certainly useful but not necessary. That's why I sold it!
For cycling you just need legs pushing down the pedals, obviusly it is not necessary.
It can help to improve faster, nothing more
Otherwise excellent advice from Ollie tarnished by GCN taking money from Shimano to promote a fundamentally flawed product. Most would be better off with a cheap heart rate strap than the Shimano power meter.
Idea for the next video: Calories burned and efficiency. When it's 100F outside, my body is working much harder to maintain 98.6F than when I'm inside and it's 72F. So when I am on the bike and the power meter says I burnt 500 calories when it was 72F and 500 calories when it is 100F, how many more calories did I burn when it was hotter? Over an hour I bet this adds up a lot. I'd also guess that some people are much better (efficient) at maintaining 98.6 than others.
I beg to differ on your opinion of HR versus power. It's true HR is variable given the environment. It is however also known that the physiology of your body is also variable. This means that when you train purely based on power you will have a different training effect given different environmental conditions for the same power. I do some training by power and some by HR. Ideally I would always have information on both, but there is no reason to prefer one above the other, it's always a combination of both.
Hey Vegeta, what does the pedal say about his power levels?
It says he’s the prince of all sayians
I know old video no one cares but I'm pretty sure you need to divide by the efficiency, not multiply since your body needs to use 4 or 5 times (0.25 or 0.2) the amount of energy (calories) to produce the power you measure with the power meter
Throughout the video we see clips of Ollie riding his red/black Orbea but if you look closely, at 20:24 there's a shot of Hank riding a red/black Dogma. This clip just so happens to come after a cheeky comment about how everyone will be so excited to hear all about your 5 watt gain. Very subtle - keep up the good work mates!
Would be good to get a follow-up on this perhaps coupled with The 1000 watt challenge on setting the typical 6-7 power zones seen on devices with your max effort results for 5 s, 1 min, 5 min etc instead of their usual % FTP based zone.
Asking because my FTP is ~200 but my 5 s is 1200 and 1 min is 400+ so zone 7 120% FTP of 320 doesn’t seem right?!
Can anyone please tell me if Stages/4iiii 105 power meter fit fsa gossamer mega 52/36 on my Merida Reacto 400? Thank you
Heart rate is a measure of the effort you are making. Power is a measure of the results of such effort.
Torque is a good field to have on your computer and % of FTP which reads like a potentiometer whilst riding is really handy, forget the numbers/WATTS, they jump around like a spring.. Once you get an FTP it'll only vary if you're MEGA FIT so it'll generally be the same. Trainings a combination of Power initially, cadence then HR...measuring and pacing to a ride.
Thank you Ollie that was really helpful!!,
Thank u . Like your channel 👌👌👌👌👌👍👍👍👍👍
Oh come on! talking about powermeters and only mentioning one product which in reality costs more than a fully budget level bike - not cool cool. with such price tag, this is not even a consideration for most of the amature cyclists...
Steven Seiler FTW
gcn needs to find some better roads with less traffic. Pretty painful to watch a video where the rider and camera man are obviously holding up cars behind them
I found it odd that there appeared to be an empty bike trail next to the road that Ollie was riding on, like when he was holding up the white Audi.
Brad O'Neal it’s illegal to ride on the pavement/sidewalk in the uk
This is the UK. Bloody cars are everywhere!
Hi Ollie, I have an Ebike, would it be worthwhile getting a power metre for it, as I often do climb hills, and I'd like to know my cadance and power levels with the climbs
I love GCN presenter's bike😍
I can buy an electric bike for the price of a power meter.
Euhm....Ollie....i called my Mum.....started talking about my PowerNumbers....and after one minute i noticed she d hung up.....i guess she s not interested.
My mum loves power chat.. she's in charge, I sit and listen.. Nice one Ollie.. really handy intro and some useful examples of data too 🚴👍🏻👊🏻✊🏻
Yes, by all means, talk about your power numbers. Then watch as your friends put those numbers to the test by trying to ride away from you as quickly as possible. Makes for some great interval training.
@10:40 Ollie says he can produce a better 5 min power on a climb than on a flat, I find the same thing with my climbing power way above what I can do on flat. Can anyone explain why this would be?
I’ll argue that for non-competitive cyclists seeking to get fitter, a heart rate monitor is the better tool. You want to pace your effort depending on whether you have a better or worse day, how much you’ve had for sleep etc., and your heart rate reflects all of that, so it is a better indication of how your body is doing. Also as you get fitter over time, you will be able to exert more power at the same heart rate, and you can maintain a training effort relative to your own condition by maintaining your heart rate. For objective numbers, and comparing your performance to others, of course a power meter is better.
More time spent watching ads than show. Sorry GCN, not bothering any more. And yes, I get it - ads pay for the show.
Hey Ian. Thanks for your feedback. As you say, without the ads, there wouldn't be any videos to watch. They're a necessity of running a channel that produces daily content at no cost to our audience I'm afraid. Hopefully, you're still able to enjoy some of our videos!
Are there any power meters out there which will give you something similar to Wattbike’s polar view???
After many, many years of happily riding without a PM I finally kinda fell into one on a new bike and I have to say I am surprised how much I like using it to guide my efforts. I suppose most cyclists are data hounds on some level right? I mean, I am no where near the athlete I used to be, but it is still fun to apply some of the modern training logic that is so much more available out there and understandable than in years gone by when it was all mysterious whispers and secrets...
Can you get cadence From my power meter from 4iiii
Hi! Yes, crank power meters usually measure cadence as well as power!
Where can I register my 4iiii power meter?
Thanks for answering. Also where I register my power meter in the invent I loss my bike
You never said how many watts you used pootering (10-12 mph). Grinding (18-20 mph) and hauling ass (25-29 mph).
You don't need to be a pro but you ahve to have a minimum of 500 of where ever you live money to get one lol
That ORBEA Orca looks slick!
Ollie, do you really think Manon wants to hear about your 5w improvement in FTP, or do you think she was being sarcastic?
I like the fact that you differentiated between doing a FTP test on the flats compared to doing them on a hill. I dont think doing them on a hill is as real world as opposed to doing them on the flats. Cadence I think is another factor that should be considered as well. If you typically spin then your test should reflect a good rpm otherwise if you grind it out for the bigger numbers than those are not likely numbers you will hold for an hour.
#CaptionCompetition Googling how to do the laundry so it does not loose the colour
Is that Matt in the background at 21.01?
(Sorry, comedy doesn't have to be pretty. Steve Martin said that).
I'd be really interested in tips about how to carry out tests outdoors - in finding a route to ride, what am I looking for, how far from home to get in a warm up? Also, these often ask for a target FTP ahead of the test. Some tips on how to select that number would be good!
Must be such a hard life which bike to superbike to use before each ride. Pinarello, orbea choices choices...btw where does Oli live.... just asking for a mate 😉