Honestly i probably would have done some Wrath GDKPs if they worked like your suggestion. Wrath already having said emblems is a good example, and those can be turned into either some gear or other useful things. But being able to auction/bid on them for raid loot would probably have solved lots of loot drama i saw in wotlk classic, and probably some mount drama too. Would be cool to see that in game. I still think the wotlk emblems and old school justice/valor points were some of the best gearing systems wow had because you always were incentivized and rewarded for content and even casual players had something to work towards with them.
@@Apoxiosis "Nah bro 1 Emblem is atleast 200" But for you i make a special offer "300 gold"^^. Also from the sounds of it the new gdkp detection system could possibly be able to detect stuff like that. Or the simple solution of "no 2hour trade window" .
it has a huuuge flaw though: New players will never be able to catch up in emblems compared to others who have already been playing for a while... It's not a good system. With GDKP you can absolutely catch up, just farm mats or play the AH, tons of ways to make gold outside of GDKPs. Since these emblems would only drop from bosses, new players or late starters will neeever be able to catch up due to emblem "inflation"
Regarding the symbiotic/parasitic relationship between GDKPs and RMT. I believe there's still a great deal of symbiosis going on. What's the main reason for a GDKP organizer to keep putting effort into running their raids? It's gold. How do you make sure you get the most gold for your time? You invite big spenders to make sure the pot is bigger so you get a bigger cut. That's how you end up actively looking for gold buyers to invite. It directly benefits you.
Most GDKP leaders don't put that much effort into finding huge RWT buyers. As a now *former* GDKP raid leader myself, parses are checked, and budget is asked for. If it's over 50g you're in. No one's spending days trying to find 1,000g Andy's for their BFD raids lol. Some might, but I don't think most at all.
All the same arguments exist in a world where RMT is highly illegal and actioned against. GDKPs had to mold themselves to fit into the new norm of gold buying being essentially legal. GDKPs would still exist without any gold buyers. Thats why its parasitic
Global DKP would be really cool. I love this video, instead of trying to reason saying GDKP's are not the main source of RMT therefore they shouldn't be banned. There are pros and cons of GDKPs but as it stands the gold buying and people using bought gold on gdkps is such a high amount that its pretty disingenuous to say that GDKPs aren't the biggest reason to buy gold right now.
ikr, like how many streamers have been reading the phase 2 reveal notes in stream lately, uploading them to youtube as 1hr long video and adding _absolutely_ nothing in form of comments or anything of "value" and just struggling with the pronounciation of items and names :D
This is a fantastic idea and I hope this gains traction with the community. You are slowly become my favorite wow content creator. Can you make a phase 2 preraid bis list? Cheers
I hope more people make reasonable and logic-based takes like this, and share them with Blizzard. If enough of the communuty *fights back* against this silly ban, we can easily have the best WoW loot system unbanned from the game. Blizzard has only been hearing the anti-GDKP whiners, now Blizzard needs to hear the rest of the community who actually enjoy GDKPs.
Thank you Simonize. You are one of the very few youtubers that are willing to take the unpopular stance and defend GDKPs. I also share the opinion that the average "anti-GDKP" player has not participated in a GDKP, watched a highlight reel or parody content and have incredibly inaccurate views of GDKPs. Since this is the average SoD player, I worry that they may "bash" you for even daring to take a level headed stance. The biggest downsides is this type of system could be gamed: when you raid with your guild/buddies hand out the items for free, but still collect the tokens. Then join pugs and dump all your tokens to snatch the really rare items. Blizz would need to add a minimum bid for each item, with the item being automatically disenchanted/deleted if it was not bid on. But all in all I really like your idea, as a GDKP enjoyer I would happily use this system, but I fear blizzard would never do the work to make it happen.
Good video mate! GDKP in itself isn't the bad guy here... One thing that i don't think I've seen anyone mention is that GDKP is the only form of raiding actively encourages undergeared characters (buyers to join), especially in the period from mid towards the end of the phase when most people are already geared. There is no way in hell one can join on fresh char in a group that is ms/os for example. GDKP is my favorite type of content in SoD and I am gutted that it is now banned. For the record I never have and never will buy gold, all the loot I've gotten from GDKPs is with legitimately farmed gold. Gold is easier to acquire than ever with questing past max level.
now for easy content like we have in SoD you can easely join MS/OS on fresh char ive done it multiple time. None of this is the issue its just a form of bigotry that it seem the wow dev participate in. It's incredibly pathetic that the wow dev team will ban gdkp but still allow gold transfer wich are basically supported RMT for gold in SoD it's all extremely stupid and truely just feel like some move to please a truely stupid minority of the community. Another group of people that i think should never say this banning of GDKP is a W are streamer. Streamer probably encourage a lot more RMT then gdkp do by accepting donation or dunno dueling for gold and other stupid stuff like that. Also the idea that GDKP gold is what cause economy inflation when most of the gold traded in gdkp is just traded back in GDKP and rarely is used to affect the market. People that inflate price and control market are not people that got rich trough gdkp they are people like me that have hit gold cap many time trough market manipulation and flipping the GDKP pool of gold is pretty insular in the end.
What would prevent a guild from enabling the emblem auction loot system, and using their normal loot system, but allowing the team to benefit from the emblems?
@@leaveacomment Could you not just agree to LC it offline and have the winner bid one emblem? Surely everyone would be ok with doing it since there is a reward tied to these emblems.
@@codyking5990 you would lose out on your gear to then get it in a pug. This could potentially be harmful if your intention was stacking high emblems to grief people in pugs, but I think that case would be so rare that it's a non issue
I don’t think you’re following exactly. Currently a popular loot style is LC or SR. There is nothing stopping a guild from enabling this emblem loot system and then having the auction function behave as the loot distribution method. But instead of bidding it up, you just have the desired loot recipient bid one emblem. This would enable SR and LC guilds to accrue emblems without actually participating in the Emblem DKP loot method. So it’s free income for the entire guild, or you could stack them up for a pug if you want, either way it’s a free benefit for SR or LC guilds.
The only issue I see with the emblem auction is you can’t purchase consumes with the emblems like you can with gold. I think it all comes down to blizzard putting the man power in to permanently banning gold buyers/sellers and the thousands of bots that infest their video game.
Very happy they are making a stand on this issue. I stopped raiding in Wrath due to the constant GDKPS, it just cheapens the whole experience. Gear is literally worth nothing, you just swipe a card and bam you get it. I used to love checking out peoples gear in the capitals and thinking about the effort they put in to get it. Saying GDKPS allow everyone to get something just feels weird, why should you get something every week, surely a little drought makes getting something feel even better? Not everyone needs to get everything. andddd lastly, if people stop attending raids because they have everything, they just need to be rooted out of guilds and replaced with people that will see out the phases for the good of the guild and everyone in it with the same mentality.
That's the biggest problem with so many people on wow now a day they always say they want to have some reason to raid and even if they get no loot one week they got some gold out of it is the problem. That is the point of raiding in wow your not gonna get upgrades every week sometimes you go weeks without anything. that is the point of the game when you do get upgrade it makes it feel so much better
@@logicchief7884 If you actually believe this, you are 100% a masochist who enjoys suffering and pain for literally no reason. If that's the shit way you want to play the game, fine, but don't force others to play the game the way YOU THINK it should be played, let us play the way we want to, using the only good loot system that is GDKP.
@@AcharyaDayāloka Suffering and pain? My friend I don't think you should be playing the game at all if thats what you go through when you don't get loot, I can only imagine the level of drama you must bring to a guild if you don't get what you want 😂 Saying it's the only good loot system is just not true, the game was built and become successful without GDKP and Blizzard taking a stand on it should be a good indicator that it's not good for the game and community as a whole. I've been part of and ran very successful guilds that have awarded loot fairly, all it takes is a little bit of effort from the people in charge. Your not being forced to play SoD, so why not vote with your feet and go to a version where you can GDKP? If you really think about it, the gear you are getting in SoD's raids is leveling gear, is it really worth spending gold on that? I really hope you find a way to enjoy the game without the need for GDKP and if not getting what you want all the time does upset as much as you say it does, I hope you find something to help you deal with it outside of gaming. Nobody is more passionate about gaming than me, but at the end of the day it is just a game.
@@callumwood6937 Maybe this will help you understand my perspective on the situation. 1. Rarely ever any drama in GDKPs. 2. GDKP was in the game since original Classic WoW. Blizzard isn't taking a stand on shit, they're banning in P2 only for politic reasons to appease the complainers, that's it. Otherwise, they'd ban it in all versions of the game. 3. Guild loot systems can be decent, but I just don't prefer it. 4. I enjoy SoD, and GDKP will be unbanned soon, so I will keep playing until it is. 5. It is worth spending gold on if you value gear. Or, you can just make gold. 6. It doesn't upset me, it's just that most loot systems in SoD are trash, whereas GDKP is BiS, so I'd much prefer to raid that way. 7. I also do speed-runs and parse runs, where it is MS>OS, which I do enjoy a lot, but on my alts, I want to GDKP. Simple as that. :)
@Simonize So what if you spam lower level raids/dungeons just to but one thing the current raid and dip out would you combat that dilemma? (No sarcasm, legit question)
I think he addressed this. If not they should probably only be for that specific dungeon ie BFD raid emblems, and or once you leave the instance the only option you have is to spend it on gold or consumables that are BoP. Solves people from dipping out or spamming lower raids to spend on higher ilvl raids.
I like the emblem idea, but just because it's your first raid shouldn't automatically exclude you from being able to "buy" a highly sought after rare-drop epic. I think you should be able to increase your odds of winning by bidding more emblems. Imagine a spinning wheel, if you bid 5 emblems you take up a bigger chunk of the "pie" then another player that only bids 2 emblems. Also, would every raid/boss be held to this or would you have to select "emblem loot" from a drop-down?
Should perhaps be pointed out that when you talk about "taking my earnings from one week and spending them on items the next week", the bulk of those earnings are bought gold, so it has worked out well because someone doing that essentially just launders bought gold. The earnings can be significant and you can keep up with item costs but by participating you are still fueling RMT even though you personally are not buying gold. The system is rigged towards RMT regardless of theoretical benefits in an imaginary world where botting and gold buying doesnt exist.
What makes you say that "the bulk of those earnings are bought gold"? I have done 32 GDKP raids in Season of Discovery with an average payout of 13.34 gold per raid and expenditure of 12.21 gold per raid. My experience suggests to me that these are totally normal amounts of gold for TOS-abiding players to have.
What a weird anecdotal cope, how could you possibly know someone is TOS-abiding? I could just buy gold and join a GDKP right now and my gold would go to the pot to be distributed and essentially laundered because Blizzard wouldn't take the gold away from people even if I get caught. The amount per raid is irrelevant. @@SimonizeShow
What a weird anecdotal cope, how could you possibly know someone is TOS-breaking? I could just earn gold questing and join a GDKP right now and my gold would go to the pot to be distributed and essentially laundered because Blizzard has no reason to take gold away from people who earn gold questing. The amount per raid is irrelevant.
A gold buyer just needs to bid higher than the last guy. I think it's reasonable to assume the average truth lies somewhere in the middle - the average GDKP raid has people who RMT and people who dont. Looking at the prevalence and massive success of gold sellers right now, it seems reasonable to make this assumption that considerable amount of that gold is going in to GDPKs and not just the AH etc. If we can agree on that much, it's not that much of a leap to suggest that if a legit player can bid 13G on an item, the next guy who bids 14G could easily have bought that gold, he only has to beat the last bid, not demonstrate his deep pockets for no reason. It doesn't have to become a ridiculous RMT bid battle every time for the gold involved to still be illegitimate and the participation in said GDPKs a tainted action regardless of your own money making habits. Needless to say it's of course possible for a GDPK raid to consist only of legit players, but you can never know and looking at how wide spread gold buying is, it seems increasingly unlikely, so even when the amounts are not big there's still always a good chance youre supporting RMT just by participating. @@SimonizeShow
Honestly I'd love to just have a form of personal points/currency system, heck even if the raid drops were just sold for points at a vendor in this alternative mode. It would beat getting destroyed by bad RNG with what we have left. Not a fan of having to play multiple of the same class to see which one is blessed by rng for the phase, while the other never sees a weapon drop at all.
@@opterra how? It's literally the same except that the emblems will be consumed when you win an item at the end of a raid rather than only being used at NPC's
if you do that someone could pay a sum of gold to get a bunch of emblem but tbh the real issue here is caring about RMT it's a problem ya but it's not a problem player can solve and removing some way people enjoy the game because RMT buyer use it to is just not something that make sense to me. IF we ever live in an era of mmo where RMT and botting is eliminated that would be great but for now it's kind of out of everyone control and most gdkp enjoyer were not doing RMT. Also it's important to note that a big influx of SoD gold come from trading retail or wotlk gold for sod gold wich is basically a fully supported way of buying gold for SoD so truely who the fuck cares@@MohawkPigeon
Your loot system idea is good, but one improvement could be made. The emblems should be bnet account bound (specific to the expansion they are in). Gold reward will lose its value quickly and inflate AH prices for new players. If you don’t need gold to buy gear there’s a limit to how much most players will care to have. But getting the emblems on one character so you can get a head start to gear up an alt is very much similar to one of the benefits of GDKP. The people who want to play the game a lot and raid on multiple characters would have a way for their stronger characters to support their newer characters. This is a much stronger incentive for the geared players to return week after week. The idea of the emblems getting deleted after winning is perfect. This would help to limit the inflation of emblem prices. If someone who does 7 raids per week pays a lot for something, it’s not transferred… It’s just gone. Also, since the emblems aren’t trade-able, it would probably reduce botting to some degree. And realistically the vendor trade emblems for gold or something like that should also be there, so people have options. Maybe even like really really expensive mounts or things like that as an extra idea. Basically, multiple options. They can use the emblems to gear a main, gear an alt, get some gold, or get super prestigious items. That’ll keep people coming back.
The big problem is that blizz doesnt like to do any work 😢 I thought it was really weird that they banned it and not given any alternatives, would've been nice if they would've acknowleged the benefits of the system to show that they understand it and how you can maybe get those same benefits in traditional loot system, but as always its for the community to build sadly we cant change the game files and implement a new loot system. Maybe an addon could work
should be convertable into gold, like he suggested. (only 1way ofc, emblem->gold, not the other way) then you can gear up alts with the gold on the AH. tho you still have to raid with your alt, if you want raid gear.
There is just one flaw in the idea of the emblems. There is no benefit to others when they get deleted. The advantage of GDKP is that even if you don't get the item you get a good share depending on how much ppl spent on it.
It's same reason we have guns today. It's not the object its the people utilizing the object and yet we still have guns. GDKP's are fine but is a gold buyers play ground and it sucks because they ruin it for everyone. I like the idea of that loot system. We just got to keep giving feedback. It's clear they are trying to work with us and not against us. We got to be more vocal of what we need to have a better gaming experience. We need a better loot system and gdkp's have been the best raids I've been too.
Wanna know what to do sense there are no GDKPs, JOIN A GUILD. Have fun with a group of people that become close friends, and guess what, you will get loot.
My 12 year old was riding with me and listening to this video with me in my truck. After the video he asks me, why don't they just ban the bots and the gold buyers instead of the gdkps. All I can say is good question son. Your telling me you have the resources to detect gdkpers but not the resources to detect bots and gold buyers?
Yeah it really does seem to be that simple huh. There has always been an incentive to buy gold. It was even harder to earn gold way back and people would buy it left and right. GDKP didn't come along until after the bots. And honestly I don't remember GDKP being very popular until classic released. GDKP would still be very viable in a no bot no good buyer economy. Kudos to your kid.
@@ForbiddenFollyFollower I disagree. And you've sort of opened wide the big issues happening. "Is likely a complacent whale" people are projecting their own form of ultimate evil and blaming it on these players to hope blizzards shortcomings are fixed. This is a legitimate way to play the game. Whether someone likes it or not, and really does not have a direct impact on other players other than maybe spamming up their chat. Bots will continue to exist and the AH prices will still be wack. Players need to learn to understand their inner turmoil and channel it properly instead of vilifying strangers they know nothing about. It's not unlike racism or what the media pushes about "other people" Do whales exist? Yeah. And they will continue to exist. And one could argue with the AH being their only way of gearing, now the AH will be more greatly impacted. So players actually went from not playing in GDKP, with AH prices going up, to still not playing GDKP and AH prices likely going up more. One could also argue this incentivized gold buying now that there is one less way of making honest gold.
@@mikeygduvyou dont need to constantly get Gold without gdkps. The game would go back to what it used to instead of being about feeding greedy balkan assholes. Gdkp is cancerous
You have discovered local currencies, love it, and this is basically DKP but solidified and backed by a central bank e.g. the security provided by the system blizzard implements into the game, so we dont need to know or trust the guild or raid from week to week. It will still be too easy to game this system I think. You would have a paypal account running in parallel during raids. The real problem is that GDKP raids create an avenue, and a market, for trading raid drops, which are the most valuable items in the game. Just as various rl venues provide opportunities for money laundering.
Decent idea for SoD, but what about Wrath or other 25man content that is more challenging? With the emblem idea there is no reward for actually building the group and/or raidleading.
He actually brought this idea first up in the context of wrath. Also,as raidleader you can HR e.g. shadowmourne/valance shards or all kind of materials that drop. Why should you be rewarded with gold lmao?
I'm hitting the same problem that you mentioned: almost pointless taking geared toons to raids. I was just at the point where i was thinking gdkp might be good for me. rip.
I thought about this emblem system too but there's one huuuge flaw with it: New players will never be able to catch up in emblems compared to others who have already been playing for a while... It's not a good system. With GDKP you can absolutely catch up, just farm mats or play the AH, tons of ways to make gold outside of GDKPs. Since these emblems would only drop from bosses, new players or late starters will neeever be able to catch up due to emblem "inflation". Gold DKP is just superior in every way. Plus with the emblems you wouldn't be able to gain an advantage by playing the game outside of raiding, like again: farming mats for example.
People are rarely full BIS. The geared players can go to a SR run to get what they need. They can also keep raiding to get their 99s. GDKPs are lame and they def encourage RMT. Let’s see how it goes though. Might not be a necessary ban.
Great idea, BUT: the emblems should not be deleted, they should be put in a pot for the raid. This way, if you run with a big boy raid, or big items drop that you dont care about, you get bigger rewards...
"What am i going to do without being able to participate in GDKPs" ummmmm play the game ? Farm something ? I do understand the benefits of those runs I really do but i do think this new change and experiment will be good for the game. Back in old school MMOs we did not do these types of runs... we farmed everything and it felt good to make something on your own instead of just buying it on AH or with gold in a Raid no ? but just my 2 cents :)
Emblems being account wide would be sick. Altaholics would be hugely rewarded for this. People would play way more WoW and have way more alts. Imagine raiding Gnomer on 10 alts every 3 days. Youd be able to gear your main BiS so quickly.
Great video. Thank you for sharing your passion Simon. I feel the same and was storming the forums trying to explain to people we are not all gold buyers paying 400+ gold for items. I play with players who enjoy taking things a little further and trying harder. We spend the earned money on consumes and outbid each other and it's fun. Our pot has been no more than 15-20g per run. If we make over 15g it's a good night. I first saved up 50g from quests and farming before I started. I'm almost fully geared and have 60g. It's not that crazy of an event. You know what IS really cancerous for the game? Reserves. That to me is the most self entitled setup. If you can find people, good for you but I wont be joining any of them. Players don't understand what they've done. The bots will continue to ruin the economy and people will not have an outlet to make gold to keep up. The vitriol I have seen spoken towards GDKP players is frankly disgusting and frightening to see people treating other people that way. I would compare it to awful events of the past but this is just a video game and it's not that serious. But it is awful how uninformed people viciously attack others for playing in their own way. What if I'm RPing? Blizzard going to ban me for RPing as a sell sword? It's just a bad look. Go for the bots PLEASE. Everyone should be able to afford getting into a GDKP and see how it is.
This is related to your comments about bots continuing to ruin the economy. I'm just copy/pasting a previous comment of mine and I'm not going to reword it to fit exactly so I apologize for that. But here: "GDKP isn't the ONLY reason people buy gold, but it is definitely the largest factor. Instead of buying 1,000 gold, now they'll buy 100 gold (example numbers) due to the costs of everything else in the game being significantly less (those boes on the AH wouldn't be selling for 500g+ if botting wasn't so rampant) And if people buy less gold, then sellers make less money. When they make less money, they start scaling back to reduce costs which in return reduces botting. Instead of running 100 bots they run, 10. (example numbers). It's simple supply and demand. If you slash demand then supply is forced to reduce to avoid overrunning costs. People look at everything as all or nothing, 0% or 100%, black or white. 0 bots is impossible, but 10 is a lot better than 100. The bigger issue though is there's already extreme damage done to the market. If SoD launched with this ban then botting would have been much less prevalent from the beginning." I personally love gdkp as an idea in a setting where you are certain RMT is not possible. But we all know it is and gdkp just throws gasoline onto an already burning flame.
@@dfcd1432 you know, I might be inclined to agree if gold buying hadn't been a thing for 20 years. We didn't have GDKP everywhere in 2004 and there were so many gold farmers it was international news. (It existed but was not nearly as common) kids now come to expect transactions in their games so they are willing to spend money. The incentive is not gone. We don't ban parties when people are killed from drinking and driving. People never showed this level of hate towards blizzard or the bots that I have seen this week towards GDKP players. People are literally harassing and bullying players. The AH still exists. People will want to get the best gear. Not to mention you earn massive amounts of gold via quests. GDKP was a way to offset the inflation and spread the wealth. Now people will be more incentivized to buy gold because another honest gold making method is gone. Blizzard is attacking a symptom not the problem. This will create a squeeze and they will just release a token like they always do. I'm not a fan of Blizzard telling me how I can play the game or spend my gold when I've played this game since some of the devs were in diapers. Lastly, blizzard has a history of hamstringing player interaction in their game. Ironically they have the biggest player base. But over time they have removed the need for a player socialization or interaction and it's been a theme across their games. They want you playing a theme park on rails not a world to experience and be yourself. (This is made evident that guilds have only been a glorified chat room and have mostly gone unchanged in 20 years.) I'm mad and I'm not mad at you, sorry for the rant but blizzard has been on thin ice for many of us. Ban the bots. Ban the gold buyers. Sodapoppin was very publicly not banned harshly for buying gold. If it's worth banning honest players for a play style it's worth banning bad actors that literally ruin the market by buying the gold. Gold buyers are the incentive.
How about giving organizers. A ''unique'' Pets or Mounts'' That you can only GET by Organizing. after a 52 resets of raidleading a raid you'll get a title. That is very cool looking and unique. To the reward regarding having too many emblems and nothing to waste them on. It could be like some kind of RNG Protection. For example if an item didn't drop in lets say. 16 resets. A player could buy that item in some shop, for 95% of their Current ''Emblem Value''
Egregious levels of cheating to gold farm happens on every server endlessly. Even if blizzard suddenly decided they wanted to enforce rules and banned everyone who does participate in gdkp it will still occur by using discord/out of game chat or other methods.
@@viewer54322 industrial level gold farming is harder to get rid of,since they do it as a business. and blizzard running wow is also a business,so even if there is tools to combat rmt,the costs are too high so they use as little money as they can to make as much profit as they can. people dont JOIN gdkps to make irl money,they join it to get gear. yeah some people make gdkps to make money,but its easier to combat that with ingame bans than its for industrial gold farms. there is no bulletproof rules,even the rules of the game itself,eg physics engine can be manipulated with speedhacks and flyhacks. just them making it bannable to spam gdkp runs in chat channels already makes a massive hurdle to create gdkp raids. making it so if you want to make gdkp raids,and keep them running,they have to make a PRIVATE discord/other chat apps with extreme stringent regulations to make sure no one can join there as a spy to report their in game accounts,since hosting gdkps is against the tos and with a chat room where youre making all of the rules of the gdkp raids extremely clear is ample evidence to show that yes,.this is a gdkp raid and not just a normal raid. making it VERY easy for blizzard to ban the hosts if they get into these gdkp chat rooms outside of the game.
If optional, which it would HAVE to be, why would someone late or on an alt opt into not having enough emblems to win anything for weeks? Nobody likes DKP for this reason.
GSPK makes it almost impossible to play as a new player. I could never get into one because I did not have the gear/ or gold. How was i going to get the gear without having the gold ? How was i gonna get the gold without having the gear ?
You can very easily make gold by doing quests at 25. They increased the gold you make with the level cap. Many GDKP runs have a requested minimum of 50g and a minimum bid of 5g and adjusted minimums for set and epics. Additionally, it's a player driven way to play, you don't have to play that way. Find players that would like to play the way you do. Players demand proof of achievement in retail, did we ban achievements?
This is such a moronic comment. You're not forced into going to a GDKP. How are you going to get gear once they are banned? The same way you could've gotten gear when they were allowed...right? So what's your point?
The whole server is being affected by people running GDKPs tho. It forces inflation, makes it harder to get consumes and the price to join will only increase since GDKP only redistributes gold among players. If anything we would need a tax on GDKP bids or runs to at least try and combat inflation otherwise, as OP said, new players will be locked out of even participating. And that will create a system where casual players will be forced to spend more for raiding than they already have to, meaning they will likely be marginalized, quit the game or (since that is our current reality) turn to websites to buy gold to be able to keep up thus further kicking the inflation spiral into action. In the end since the amount of available gold is likely to increase on any given server anyway it is up to you to decide whether you want to try and keep a somewhat healthy economy for a longer time and not use a system like GDKP or keep a healthy economy for a shorter time for the gain of a pretty dedicated playerbase but at the loss of people who want to/can only join endgame content later, tho you def. Can argue at some point the economy will break regardless to GDKP so there really isnt one best choice it just depends on your view of what enjoyable gameplay is.
This idea is so good that is never going to be implemented cuz Activision are not as bright minded. They should come up with this idea and it should be in the game as a replacement for gdkp from the start. Unfortunately this is no Blizzard North as we knew it, this is now Activision and recently ms/activision meaning 0 real passionate gamers work on their projects and they will continue to suck , to be out of decent ideas and to implement last resort things when ppl start 2 cry 2 much like this recent change. Sorry Simon .. the idea is very very good, so good that they cant even do it.
Good idea! But the issue i see is for people who play with a guild most of the time, or just some of the time. They will get a lot of emblems stacked, if they dont have to use them in their own raids, and get the loot free. So what will happen is that they will stockpile these emblems, and can then use em all on a few items later in a phase, and none of the people who had to use emblems for gear earlier in the phase can even compete when bidding.
They should do this in every mode of the game not just SoD. Players are the reason I take breaks from the game. Most people don’t have fun they just min max and ruin it for casuals
What ive been noticing afternthe ban, that everyone and their mother who buy gold for gdkp are now screaming at the rooftops claiming they dont buy gold to buy gear in GDKP. Ive seen it in my guild, ive seen it in forums and ive seen it in discord chats. The VAST majority of GDKP players do in fact buy gold to aquire loot, and were proud of it, and openly admitted to it, and now that its banned, they no longer was to admit they are pay to win players. Blizzard isnt fooled, and neither am i. Its a toxic way to play, and GDKP players know this deep down. The average GDKP player has a fragile ego and overvalues parses as a means for self worth, and a means to feed their ego ti improve their self worth so they can belittle worse players. Its all too common
And you're hoping these people will now play with you or something? This doesn't open up the pool of players to play with. And even if the idea worked, all this would do is lower AH prices, nothing more. This is an MMO, people play the way they wish to. Don't like GDKP? Don't do it! It's that simple. Very fascist to stomp out other players play style because you have a feeling about it. It's a dead give away with how emotional you are about these players by attacking them rather than the issue. You have an issue with human behavior and you want to control it because you don't like them, just admit it. There is nothing wrong with playing to parse. (I don't care about parsing NOR do I buy gold. And I play in a GDKP guild with some players who do with very low payouts. They are great people with great attitudes. Not everyone is a snob.) Ban the bots, ban the buyers it's not hard. Whales will be forced to buy from the AH now. Get ready for it.
@@Madlux14 It's not hard, it's just not worth it for them financially. They would either pay for more staff like they once had or they would lose subs or both. They are incentivized to keep them around. Just wait, the AH will be bananas, it'll be the only source for whales now.
the big problem with GDKP is that most of buyers inside these raids are chinese gold buyers. So they do the game of the bots in wow. Ban those players is not the final solution to the problem, but I hope less people will buy gold after that.
Could also make ALL stuff you can buy from emblems BoE or make Emblems account wide. So you earn emblems on main characters wich you can then use on an alt for tier pieces or something else... hmm could also make the 264 token BoA
Who benefits the most from gdkp ? Gold farmers and top tier guilds that can carry the buyers How do you think your clients got that gold ? By buying it not farming the gold What will gdkp players do when the system is ban ? Play the game normally how it was designed OMG you want to make wow pay to win . Came here from guzu reaction to you video
The emblem auction idea does seem interesting. In the ideal world, GDKPs are great, but with the way Blizzard enforces RMT and botting, it's just not feasible to think that GDKPs don't help encourage cheating in the game. They did say they are looking at metrics with the banning of GDKPs to see if it is successful and I'm curious what those metrics would look like and what would cause them to go back on the GDKP ban. I like that they are at least trying to do something though and it's interesting that they have been given so much leeway to spend an entire phase (at least) in trying something so radical for group play.
I'm happy to see them go. I think the RMT is more pervasive and corrosive than you think, and GDKPs can't exist fairly in such an ecosystem. I only take my alts to my in-guild GDKPs because I don't expect to win anything at non-RMT prices. It's just a way for me to fund things while other people get their loot 1st. In a fair world, gdkps are fantastic. We are, sadly, not in a fair world. Which is why I like some parts of your emblem system. The largest hurdle between non-gdkp and gdkp is "this costs me something" vs "this earns me something". If Emblems can break even or at slight profit on consumable costs (if not spent on loot), they could be welcome. A very large caveat to this though is that no one will ever, EVER spend their emblems on something gold related because that transaction, by its very nature, cannot be reversed. And they've given up currency for future gear.
"In a GDKP everyone gets something for their time" is such a bullshit line. It's a game. You've already committed to burning your time. If the game itself isn't fulfilling of your time, its your choice to play it that is the problem. Imagine needing an incentive to play a game when you could just play some other game that would be more satisfying. The language you guys use to talk about this is similar to that of a job and that's just a fucked perspective to hold for a game lol
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 he’s talking about essentially a gdkp where emblems are the new currency that you can only get from raids. In this hypothetical scenario what would prevent someone from running their guild as a loot council collecting all the emblems and not spending them then entering another persons “emblem gdkp” raid just to buy items with all the saved emblems.
@@Remiiu8So what I understood is this (also considering his previous vid on this topic): The emblems are not redistributable. As in wrath or other wow versions, when a boss falls, each player gets one or two emblems. They are not tradeable via the normal trade window. Instead, when boss loot drops, a "bidding window" pops up, where you can bid on that item. The emblems get redistributed to the raid automatically after the RL presses an button "end raid" or something like this. I mean the details need to be wormed out in general. What if there are 50 emblems to distribute but 40 players. Who gets one, who gets two? Or do we get some floating point value amount of emblems?
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768Take an iconic weapon like Thunderfury. Say you need 5 to kit out your group. Spend a few weeks in MC where you coordinate over voice bids. The whole raid then funnels their emblems to a small group that can essentially run splits with other people to get the bindings as fast as possible. The point is that any currency/token based system is exploitable and the player base will figure that out as soon as it is implemented.
Dude, you totally skipped over like 10 things that were bad about gdkp, and started talking about good things about gdkp during what was supposed to be the bad things. What about how it destroys the economy because of the inherent incentive it gives for people to buy gold. All we have to do to see what happens in an open gdkp environment is look at the wrath servers, and the era servers. The economy was destroyed in both of them. I usually like your videos, but you totally lost me on this one when you failed to cover all the bad points. Bias much?
gdkp is so nice. i wonder if they could do some sort of max bid system or maybe create a giant universal DKP discord . it might be hard to police tho. they should just re enable gdkps and get better at banning bots. while they are at it they need to ban warlock summon spam from chat and give them their own /taxi channel
The problem is the worst shitter in the raid that comes without cons and buffs and parse a 25 get the same amount of benefit as the punper comming fully prepped and doing great. This is why nothing can beat a good lootcouncil yoy get the good items on the good player which is alot fairer imo.
Gold losses a lot of its power if GDKP's are removed. So it doesn't matter as much to have 1000's of gold. You're primarily buying BOE's and profession stuff
And his idea was that there would be a reward pot at the end, no? That's what's implied by holding an auction for the loot, using the emblems, no? Personally i think it seems like a mild improvement over GDKP, assuming the emblems are BoA, so you can still use alt raiding to fund your main. However, i'm not in favor of the suggestion, as the "everything is PUGable" reality is damaging to the social fabric of playing the game. I'd prefer a game that gates and prevents players from experiencing content, if they don't put themselves in a permanent social organization. That sounds like a much better experience than the current 'TINDERificated' game.
I'm all for the ban and welcome it. But I'm very concerned in how it was worded by blankly stating that trading gold for loot will be actionable. There's many times where I'd be running with a full group of friends and a friend and I would greed roll a piece of gear, he'd win and decide he didn't really care for it and offered to give it to me, I'd tip him a gold or 2 as a buddy. This was me being nice to a friend. But by their blank statement that is now actionable. Some other concerns: What constitutes "loot"? Is it just BoP items from the instance? Makes sense and this is the most likely case. But what if it's any piece of gear? I've gotten BoEs in the raid and someone offered to buy it after they lost the roll. All items are technically considered loot. Will I be banned for paying a friend for consumables because I forgot mine? They just need very hard and clear distinctions on these.
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 Explain why then? Copied straight from the forum post: "We’re defining GDKP as any raid or dungeon run where items are awarded in exchange for gold. Please note that we have multiple detection methods for GDKP that are effective both inside and outside of dungeon or raid instances." Explain how my examples do not fit this definition.
Sorry but you're playing dumb here. We all know what gdkp is. Paying a friend for a consume bc you forgot yours isn't. Blizzard wouldn't dare to ban ppl for this
@@viewer54322 It absolutely will. If this gdkp ban is actually properly enforced and isn't super easy to avoid then people will legitimately stop doing them. GDKP isn't the ONLY reason people buy gold, but it is definitely the largest factor. Instead of buying 1,000 gold, now they'll buy 100 gold (example numbers) due to the costs of everything else in the game being significantly less (those boes on the AH wouldn't be selling for 500g+ if botting wasn't so rampant) And if people buy less gold, then sellers make less money. When they make less money, they start scaling back to reduce costs which in return reduces botting. Instead of running 100 bots they run, 10. (example numbers). It's simple supply and demand. If you slash demand then supply is forced to reduce to avoid overrunning costs. People look at everything as all or nothing, 0% or 100%, black or white. 0 bots is impossible, but 10 is a lot better than 100. The bigger issue though is there's already extreme damage done to the market. If SoD launched with this ban then botting would have been much less prevalent from the beginning.
I can see this being abused hard. Every guild run, every run done will be using this system of loot. People will just do it to collect their emblems from bosses then roll off loot like normal /100. Winner min bids for the loot they won. This would create a massive influx of whatever these emblems could be traded in for which would just most likely be gold adding a ton of gold into the game which is never good. Just look for a guild their are many guild who run ms/os or SR style loot or maybe not even a guild but rather a discord community on the server where people host runs all the time. Everything will be fine
The biggest problem I forsee with your emblem method is this: most weeks you raid with your guild with emblem mode on but you actualy use loot council by having one person win each item for min bid. Then after a few weeks when you are benched you can go to a pug and obliterate anyone else's bids with your stored emblems. It seems like you would never not have emblem mode on.
@@SimonizeShow as someone who has only done MS > OS in phase one (in guild and PUG runs) and has enjoyed that, what is the major issue with it? Is it just not getting the loot? I dont want to be offensive, I really think you did a good job laying out why the backlash at GDKPs might be too harsh but I think the main problem here is an attitude of "I am entitled to a reward any time I do anything in this game" that mostly seems to occur when raiding starts to be viewed as a chore not a fun experience.
Could guilds set their loot system to emblem auction to get emblems but handle the loot via whatever normal method they typically do? Like if they do loot council, they tell raiders not to bid on an item. The only player that bids on the item is whoever the LC decides gets the item. These players benefit from the guild run but also are getting emblems as much as GDKP players and get to spend them more on NPCs or pool them risk-free to outbid the regular emblem auction player.
Great idea, cant stand normal raids, or guild raids. Guilds always favour their IRL friends so loot is never fair. GDKP or DKP raids are the only fair version.
Blizzard should give people geared gold and not recieve it until the end. Blizzard should make it so loot isn´t recieved until the end. Blizzard can fix all of this but they won´t. Blizarrd either doesn´t know how too or they are just plain incomeptent.
Honestly i probably would have done some Wrath GDKPs if they worked like your suggestion.
Wrath already having said emblems is a good example, and those can be turned into either some gear or other useful things. But being able to auction/bid on them for raid loot would probably have solved lots of loot drama i saw in wotlk classic, and probably some mount drama too.
Would be cool to see that in game. I still think the wotlk emblems and old school justice/valor points were some of the best gearing systems wow had because you always were incentivized and rewarded for content and even casual players had something to work towards with them.
Love the idea of Emblem auction. This needs to be heard!
[Swipegodx] whispers: If you bid on this item and win it for me i'll give you 50g
@@Apoxiosis "Nah bro 1 Emblem is atleast 200" But for you i make a special offer "300 gold"^^. Also from the sounds of it the new gdkp detection system could possibly be able to detect stuff like that. Or the simple solution of "no 2hour trade window" .
it has a huuuge flaw though: New players will never be able to catch up in emblems compared to others who have already been playing for a while... It's not a good system. With GDKP you can absolutely catch up, just farm mats or play the AH, tons of ways to make gold outside of GDKPs. Since these emblems would only drop from bosses, new players or late starters will neeever be able to catch up due to emblem "inflation"
Regarding the symbiotic/parasitic relationship between GDKPs and RMT. I believe there's still a great deal of symbiosis going on. What's the main reason for a GDKP organizer to keep putting effort into running their raids? It's gold. How do you make sure you get the most gold for your time? You invite big spenders to make sure the pot is bigger so you get a bigger cut. That's how you end up actively looking for gold buyers to invite. It directly benefits you.
Most GDKP leaders don't put that much effort into finding huge RWT buyers. As a now *former* GDKP raid leader myself, parses are checked, and budget is asked for. If it's over 50g you're in. No one's spending days trying to find 1,000g Andy's for their BFD raids lol. Some might, but I don't think most at all.
@@AcharyaDayāloka Guess I could've phrased it differently. I never said everybody does that. I merely wanted to point out that the incentive is there.
The incentive to organize is that you get a bigger split than the people you invite
All the same arguments exist in a world where RMT is highly illegal and actioned against. GDKPs had to mold themselves to fit into the new norm of gold buying being essentially legal. GDKPs would still exist without any gold buyers. Thats why its parasitic
The emblem idea is something i like a lot. It would be better than most other raiding options currently.
dude great job just found you recently. i liked and subed. great info
Really well explained, finally not someone that is completly biased and doesnt know any Arguments. The global DKP system sounds really cool
Global DKP would be really cool. I love this video, instead of trying to reason saying GDKP's are not the main source of RMT therefore they shouldn't be banned. There are pros and cons of GDKPs but as it stands the gold buying and people using bought gold on gdkps is such a high amount that its pretty disingenuous to say that GDKPs aren't the biggest reason to buy gold right now.
Hey any ideas on when the rogue dps sims for p2 is coming? Or if it’s out link? I cant find it
Pros, cons, AND a solution for the problem. This is what i like to hear, not another reading of wowhead. Good job.
ikr, like how many streamers have been reading the phase 2 reveal notes in stream lately, uploading them to youtube as 1hr long video and adding _absolutely_ nothing in form of comments or anything of "value" and just struggling with the pronounciation of items and names :D
This is a fantastic idea and I hope this gains traction with the community. You are slowly become my favorite wow content creator. Can you make a phase 2 preraid bis list? Cheers
I hope more people make reasonable and logic-based takes like this, and share them with Blizzard.
If enough of the communuty *fights back* against this silly ban, we can easily have the best WoW loot system unbanned from the game.
Blizzard has only been hearing the anti-GDKP whiners, now Blizzard needs to hear the rest of the community who actually enjoy GDKPs.
Thank you Simonize. You are one of the very few youtubers that are willing to take the unpopular stance and defend GDKPs. I also share the opinion that the average "anti-GDKP" player has not participated in a GDKP, watched a highlight reel or parody content and have incredibly inaccurate views of GDKPs. Since this is the average SoD player, I worry that they may "bash" you for even daring to take a level headed stance.
The biggest downsides is this type of system could be gamed: when you raid with your guild/buddies hand out the items for free, but still collect the tokens. Then join pugs and dump all your tokens to snatch the really rare items. Blizz would need to add a minimum bid for each item, with the item being automatically disenchanted/deleted if it was not bid on. But all in all I really like your idea, as a GDKP enjoyer I would happily use this system, but I fear blizzard would never do the work to make it happen.
Good video mate! GDKP in itself isn't the bad guy here... One thing that i don't think I've seen anyone mention is that GDKP is the only form of raiding actively encourages undergeared characters (buyers to join), especially in the period from mid towards the end of the phase when most people are already geared. There is no way in hell one can join on fresh char in a group that is ms/os for example. GDKP is my favorite type of content in SoD and I am gutted that it is now banned. For the record I never have and never will buy gold, all the loot I've gotten from GDKPs is with legitimately farmed gold. Gold is easier to acquire than ever with questing past max level.
now for easy content like we have in SoD you can easely join MS/OS on fresh char ive done it multiple time. None of this is the issue its just a form of bigotry that it seem the wow dev participate in. It's incredibly pathetic that the wow dev team will ban gdkp but still allow gold transfer wich are basically supported RMT for gold in SoD it's all extremely stupid and truely just feel like some move to please a truely stupid minority of the community. Another group of people that i think should never say this banning of GDKP is a W are streamer. Streamer probably encourage a lot more RMT then gdkp do by accepting donation or dunno dueling for gold and other stupid stuff like that. Also the idea that GDKP gold is what cause economy inflation when most of the gold traded in gdkp is just traded back in GDKP and rarely is used to affect the market. People that inflate price and control market are not people that got rich trough gdkp they are people like me that have hit gold cap many time trough market manipulation and flipping the GDKP pool of gold is pretty insular in the end.
What would prevent a guild from enabling the emblem auction loot system, and using their normal loot system, but allowing the team to benefit from the emblems?
remove 2 hour trade possibility on this loot rule because you don't bid on items you don't need and every other problem fixes itself
@@leaveacomment Could you not just agree to LC it offline and have the winner bid one emblem?
Surely everyone would be ok with doing it since there is a reward tied to these emblems.
@@codyking5990 you would lose out on your gear to then get it in a pug. This could potentially be harmful if your intention was stacking high emblems to grief people in pugs, but I think that case would be so rare that it's a non issue
I don’t think you’re following exactly.
Currently a popular loot style is LC or SR. There is nothing stopping a guild from enabling this emblem loot system and then having the auction function behave as the loot distribution method. But instead of bidding it up, you just have the desired loot recipient bid one emblem.
This would enable SR and LC guilds to accrue emblems without actually participating in the Emblem DKP loot method. So it’s free income for the entire guild, or you could stack them up for a pug if you want, either way it’s a free benefit for SR or LC guilds.
@@codyking5990 no that's exactly what I mean. You can outbid someone that hasn't gotten loot yet once, but you have to not get loot for that.
The only issue I see with the emblem auction is you can’t purchase consumes with the emblems like you can with gold. I think it all comes down to blizzard putting the man power in to permanently banning gold buyers/sellers and the thousands of bots that infest their video game.
great stuff simon, great ideas, leaving raids with some progression even if its gold makes if so much more fun
Your emblem auction idea is solid, would be great to see this model used in game.
Been waiting for this video. Concise, and a great take. Thank you for posting.
Holy crap i love that emblem raiding idea. It would be great for my alts as i dont run gdkps due to not having enough gold to compete with gold buyers
Very happy they are making a stand on this issue.
I stopped raiding in Wrath due to the constant GDKPS, it just cheapens the whole experience.
Gear is literally worth nothing, you just swipe a card and bam you get it.
I used to love checking out peoples gear in the capitals and thinking about the effort they put in to get it.
Saying GDKPS allow everyone to get something just feels weird, why should you get something every week, surely a little drought makes getting something feel even better?
Not everyone needs to get everything.
andddd lastly, if people stop attending raids because they have everything, they just need to be rooted out of guilds and replaced with people that will see out the phases for the good of the guild and everyone in it with the same mentality.
I agree, GDKPs need to be unbanned!
That's the biggest problem with so many people on wow now a day they always say they want to have some reason to raid and even if they get no loot one week they got some gold out of it is the problem. That is the point of raiding in wow your not gonna get upgrades every week sometimes you go weeks without anything. that is the point of the game when you do get upgrade it makes it feel so much better
@@logicchief7884 If you actually believe this, you are 100% a masochist who enjoys suffering and pain for literally no reason. If that's the shit way you want to play the game, fine, but don't force others to play the game the way YOU THINK it should be played, let us play the way we want to, using the only good loot system that is GDKP.
@@AcharyaDayāloka Suffering and pain? My friend I don't think you should be playing the game at all if thats what you go through when you don't get loot, I can only imagine the level of drama you must bring to a guild if you don't get what you want 😂
Saying it's the only good loot system is just not true, the game was built and become successful without GDKP and Blizzard taking a stand on it should be a good indicator that it's not good for the game and community as a whole.
I've been part of and ran very successful guilds that have awarded loot fairly, all it takes is a little bit of effort from the people in charge.
Your not being forced to play SoD, so why not vote with your feet and go to a version where you can GDKP?
If you really think about it, the gear you are getting in SoD's raids is leveling gear, is it really worth spending gold on that?
I really hope you find a way to enjoy the game without the need for GDKP and if not getting what you want all the time does upset as much as you say it does, I hope you find something to help you deal with it outside of gaming.
Nobody is more passionate about gaming than me, but at the end of the day it is just a game.
@@callumwood6937 Maybe this will help you understand my perspective on the situation.
1. Rarely ever any drama in GDKPs.
2. GDKP was in the game since original Classic WoW. Blizzard isn't taking a stand on shit, they're banning in P2 only for politic reasons to appease the complainers, that's it. Otherwise, they'd ban it in all versions of the game.
3. Guild loot systems can be decent, but I just don't prefer it.
4. I enjoy SoD, and GDKP will be unbanned soon, so I will keep playing until it is.
5. It is worth spending gold on if you value gear. Or, you can just make gold.
6. It doesn't upset me, it's just that most loot systems in SoD are trash, whereas GDKP is BiS, so I'd much prefer to raid that way.
7. I also do speed-runs and parse runs, where it is MS>OS, which I do enjoy a lot, but on my alts, I want to GDKP.
Simple as that. :)
@Simonize So what if you spam lower level raids/dungeons just to but one thing the current raid and dip out would you combat that dilemma? (No sarcasm, legit question)
I think he addressed this. If not they should probably only be for that specific dungeon ie BFD raid emblems, and or once you leave the instance the only option you have is to spend it on gold or consumables that are BoP. Solves people from dipping out or spamming lower raids to spend on higher ilvl raids.
Amazing video, thanks! I like you show both sides of the coin, as well as offer a viable solution :)
I actually like the idea of the emblem auction, but I can’t wait to see what “abuse” paths would look like because it would happen lol
I like the emblem idea, but just because it's your first raid shouldn't automatically exclude you from being able to "buy" a highly sought after rare-drop epic. I think you should be able to increase your odds of winning by bidding more emblems. Imagine a spinning wheel, if you bid 5 emblems you take up a bigger chunk of the "pie" then another player that only bids 2 emblems. Also, would every raid/boss be held to this or would you have to select "emblem loot" from a drop-down?
Should perhaps be pointed out that when you talk about "taking my earnings from one week and spending them on items the next week", the bulk of those earnings are bought gold, so it has worked out well because someone doing that essentially just launders bought gold. The earnings can be significant and you can keep up with item costs but by participating you are still fueling RMT even though you personally are not buying gold. The system is rigged towards RMT regardless of theoretical benefits in an imaginary world where botting and gold buying doesnt exist.
What makes you say that "the bulk of those earnings are bought gold"? I have done 32 GDKP raids in Season of Discovery with an average payout of 13.34 gold per raid and expenditure of 12.21 gold per raid. My experience suggests to me that these are totally normal amounts of gold for TOS-abiding players to have.
What a weird anecdotal cope, how could you possibly know someone is TOS-abiding? I could just buy gold and join a GDKP right now and my gold would go to the pot to be distributed and essentially laundered because Blizzard wouldn't take the gold away from people even if I get caught. The amount per raid is irrelevant. @@SimonizeShow
What a weird anecdotal cope, how could you possibly know someone is TOS-breaking? I could just earn gold questing and join a GDKP right now and my gold would go to the pot to be distributed and essentially laundered because Blizzard has no reason to take gold away from people who earn gold questing. The amount per raid is irrelevant.
A gold buyer just needs to bid higher than the last guy. I think it's reasonable to assume the average truth lies somewhere in the middle - the average GDKP raid has people who RMT and people who dont.
Looking at the prevalence and massive success of gold sellers right now, it seems reasonable to make this assumption that considerable amount of that gold is going in to GDPKs and not just the AH etc. If we can agree on that much, it's not that much of a leap to suggest that if a legit player can bid 13G on an item, the next guy who bids 14G could easily have bought that gold, he only has to beat the last bid, not demonstrate his deep pockets for no reason.
It doesn't have to become a ridiculous RMT bid battle every time for the gold involved to still be illegitimate and the participation in said GDPKs a tainted action regardless of your own money making habits.
Needless to say it's of course possible for a GDPK raid to consist only of legit players, but you can never know and looking at how wide spread gold buying is, it seems increasingly unlikely, so even when the amounts are not big there's still always a good chance youre supporting RMT just by participating.
@@SimonizeShow
So is this to say that selling anything on the Auction House is also supporting RMT and we should be looking to ban that next?
Honestly I'd love to just have a form of personal points/currency system, heck even if the raid drops were just sold for points at a vendor in this alternative mode. It would beat getting destroyed by bad RNG with what we have left. Not a fan of having to play multiple of the same class to see which one is blessed by rng for the phase, while the other never sees a weapon drop at all.
Isn’t your idea just like emblems of valor from tbc/wotlk?
Not at all.
@@opterra how? It's literally the same except that the emblems will be consumed when you win an item at the end of a raid rather than only being used at NPC's
cause you still auction them, there is no fixed price for loot. you would still compete with other players in an auction system. @@nicholasabraham259
Problems with Emblems is that people will start asking how many you have … and not invite you if you have a stack and would be prio on an item?
The pot of emblems get's split to the raid members at the end so that everyone benefits.
if you do that someone could pay a sum of gold to get a bunch of emblem but tbh the real issue here is caring about RMT it's a problem ya but it's not a problem player can solve and removing some way people enjoy the game because RMT buyer use it to is just not something that make sense to me. IF we ever live in an era of mmo where RMT and botting is eliminated that would be great but for now it's kind of out of everyone control and most gdkp enjoyer were not doing RMT. Also it's important to note that a big influx of SoD gold come from trading retail or wotlk gold for sod gold wich is basically a fully supported way of buying gold for SoD so truely who the fuck cares@@MohawkPigeon
People don't do this with gold for GDKPs, they won't do this with emblems... or they'll just lie lol.
Your loot system idea is good, but one improvement could be made. The emblems should be bnet account bound (specific to the expansion they are in).
Gold reward will lose its value quickly and inflate AH prices for new players. If you don’t need gold to buy gear there’s a limit to how much most players will care to have.
But getting the emblems on one character so you can get a head start to gear up an alt is very much similar to one of the benefits of GDKP.
The people who want to play the game a lot and raid on multiple characters would have a way for their stronger characters to support their newer characters. This is a much stronger incentive for the geared players to return week after week.
The idea of the emblems getting deleted after winning is perfect. This would help to limit the inflation of emblem prices. If someone who does 7 raids per week pays a lot for something, it’s not transferred… It’s just gone.
Also, since the emblems aren’t trade-able, it would probably reduce botting to some degree.
And realistically the vendor trade emblems for gold or something like that should also be there, so people have options. Maybe even like really really expensive mounts or things like that as an extra idea. Basically, multiple options. They can use the emblems to gear a main, gear an alt, get some gold, or get super prestigious items. That’ll keep people coming back.
This should be shared around the community, this is a great loot distribution idea. Avoiding RMT, this does mimic the absolute benefits of "gdkp"
The big problem is that blizz doesnt like to do any work 😢
I thought it was really weird that they banned it and not given any alternatives, would've been nice if they would've acknowleged the benefits of the system to show that they understand it and how you can maybe get those same benefits in traditional loot system, but as always its for the community to build sadly we cant change the game files and implement a new loot system.
Maybe an addon could work
Gold sellers running the gdkp. Good job blizz
If the emblems aren't tradeable then how can you use them to gear up an alt?
Bind on Account?
should be convertable into gold, like he suggested. (only 1way ofc, emblem->gold, not the other way)
then you can gear up alts with the gold on the AH. tho you still have to raid with your alt, if you want raid gear.
@@julianduenas5851 or this could also work, i guess.
As someone that raids almost exclusively with a guild I have none of the issues listed. Perhaps that is the goal of banning P2W/GDKP
There is just one flaw in the idea of the emblems. There is no benefit to others when they get deleted. The advantage of GDKP is that even if you don't get the item you get a good share depending on how much ppl spent on it.
It's same reason we have guns today. It's not the object its the people utilizing the object and yet we still have guns. GDKP's are fine but is a gold buyers play ground and it sucks because they ruin it for everyone. I like the idea of that loot system. We just got to keep giving feedback. It's clear they are trying to work with us and not against us. We got to be more vocal of what we need to have a better gaming experience. We need a better loot system and gdkp's have been the best raids I've been too.
An undeniably great argument! Hope you're able to find a style of raid that you still love.
Wanna know what to do sense there are no GDKPs, JOIN A GUILD. Have fun with a group of people that become close friends, and guess what, you will get loot.
Great idea
As other have pointed out, it's just the emblem / badge system in wrath. Get rid of all boss loot and just buy it from the vendor.
that's not what Simonize means, we're going to get the emblem system from wrath next phase but that's a separate thing
My 12 year old was riding with me and listening to this video with me in my truck. After the video he asks me, why don't they just ban the bots and the gold buyers instead of the gdkps. All I can say is good question son. Your telling me you have the resources to detect gdkpers but not the resources to detect bots and gold buyers?
THIS COMMENT THOUGH! 👏
Yeah it really does seem to be that simple huh. There has always been an incentive to buy gold. It was even harder to earn gold way back and people would buy it left and right. GDKP didn't come along until after the bots. And honestly I don't remember GDKP being very popular until classic released.
GDKP would still be very viable in a no bot no good buyer economy. Kudos to your kid.
@@ForbiddenFollyFollower I disagree. And you've sort of opened wide the big issues happening. "Is likely a complacent whale" people are projecting their own form of ultimate evil and blaming it on these players to hope blizzards shortcomings are fixed. This is a legitimate way to play the game. Whether someone likes it or not, and really does not have a direct impact on other players other than maybe spamming up their chat. Bots will continue to exist and the AH prices will still be wack.
Players need to learn to understand their inner turmoil and channel it properly instead of vilifying strangers they know nothing about. It's not unlike racism or what the media pushes about "other people"
Do whales exist? Yeah. And they will continue to exist. And one could argue with the AH being their only way of gearing, now the AH will be more greatly impacted. So players actually went from not playing in GDKP, with AH prices going up, to still not playing GDKP and AH prices likely going up more.
One could also argue this incentivized gold buying now that there is one less way of making honest gold.
@@mikeygduvyou dont need to constantly get Gold without gdkps. The game would go back to what it used to instead of being about feeding greedy balkan assholes. Gdkp is cancerous
You have discovered local currencies, love it, and this is basically DKP but solidified and backed by a central bank e.g. the security provided by the system blizzard implements into the game, so we dont need to know or trust the guild or raid from week to week.
It will still be too easy to game this system I think. You would have a paypal account running in parallel during raids.
The real problem is that GDKP raids create an avenue, and a market, for trading raid drops, which are the most valuable items in the game. Just as various rl venues provide opportunities for money laundering.
Decent idea for SoD, but what about Wrath or other 25man content that is more challenging? With the emblem idea there is no reward for actually building the group and/or raidleading.
He actually brought this idea first up in the context of wrath. Also,as raidleader you can HR e.g. shadowmourne/valance shards or all kind of materials that drop. Why should you be rewarded with gold lmao?
I'm hitting the same problem that you mentioned: almost pointless taking geared toons to raids. I was just at the point where i was thinking gdkp might be good for me. rip.
To pump ? Like to see your highest number possible
I thought about this emblem system too but there's one huuuge flaw with it: New players will never be able to catch up in emblems compared to others who have already been playing for a while... It's not a good system. With GDKP you can absolutely catch up, just farm mats or play the AH, tons of ways to make gold outside of GDKPs. Since these emblems would only drop from bosses, new players or late starters will neeever be able to catch up due to emblem "inflation". Gold DKP is just superior in every way. Plus with the emblems you wouldn't be able to gain an advantage by playing the game outside of raiding, like again: farming mats for example.
If you delete emblems from winning bid instead of redistributing them, you don't have a inflation problem and new players should be fine.
And the raid leader gains 10% more emblems for their host cut.
This is a great idea tho I'd love to see this.
No other loot system gives you such an advantage if you decide to swipe, by the rules of the loot system itself.
People are rarely full BIS. The geared players can go to a SR run to get what they need. They can also keep raiding to get their 99s.
GDKPs are lame and they def encourage RMT. Let’s see how it goes though. Might not be a necessary ban.
Great idea, BUT: the emblems should not be deleted, they should be put in a pot for the raid. This way, if you run with a big boy raid, or big items drop that you dont care about, you get bigger rewards...
"What am i going to do without being able to participate in GDKPs" ummmmm play the game ? Farm something ? I do understand the benefits of those runs I really do but i do think this new change and experiment will be good for the game. Back in old school MMOs we did not do these types of runs... we farmed everything and it felt good to make something on your own instead of just buying it on AH or with gold in a Raid no ? but just my 2 cents :)
Emblems being account wide would be sick. Altaholics would be hugely rewarded for this. People would play way more WoW and have way more alts. Imagine raiding Gnomer on 10 alts every 3 days. Youd be able to gear your main BiS so quickly.
Please no
@danielvottero2052 If you don't like it, you don't have to run emblem raids 😄
Great video. Thank you for sharing your passion Simon. I feel the same and was storming the forums trying to explain to people we are not all gold buyers paying 400+ gold for items. I play with players who enjoy taking things a little further and trying harder. We spend the earned money on consumes and outbid each other and it's fun. Our pot has been no more than 15-20g per run. If we make over 15g it's a good night. I first saved up 50g from quests and farming before I started. I'm almost fully geared and have 60g. It's not that crazy of an event.
You know what IS really cancerous for the game? Reserves. That to me is the most self entitled setup. If you can find people, good for you but I wont be joining any of them. Players don't understand what they've done. The bots will continue to ruin the economy and people will not have an outlet to make gold to keep up. The vitriol I have seen spoken towards GDKP players is frankly disgusting and frightening to see people treating other people that way. I would compare it to awful events of the past but this is just a video game and it's not that serious. But it is awful how uninformed people viciously attack others for playing in their own way.
What if I'm RPing? Blizzard going to ban me for RPing as a sell sword? It's just a bad look. Go for the bots PLEASE. Everyone should be able to afford getting into a GDKP and see how it is.
WOW, I did not expect to get a comment like this. Thank you for sharing!
This is related to your comments about bots continuing to ruin the economy. I'm just copy/pasting a previous comment of mine and I'm not going to reword it to fit exactly so I apologize for that. But here:
"GDKP isn't the ONLY reason people buy gold, but it is definitely the largest factor. Instead of buying 1,000 gold, now they'll buy 100 gold (example numbers) due to the costs of everything else in the game being significantly less (those boes on the AH wouldn't be selling for 500g+ if botting wasn't so rampant)
And if people buy less gold, then sellers make less money. When they make less money, they start scaling back to reduce costs which in return reduces botting. Instead of running 100 bots they run, 10. (example numbers).
It's simple supply and demand. If you slash demand then supply is forced to reduce to avoid overrunning costs.
People look at everything as all or nothing, 0% or 100%, black or white. 0 bots is impossible, but 10 is a lot better than 100.
The bigger issue though is there's already extreme damage done to the market. If SoD launched with this ban then botting would have been much less prevalent from the beginning."
I personally love gdkp as an idea in a setting where you are certain RMT is not possible. But we all know it is and gdkp just throws gasoline onto an already burning flame.
@@dfcd1432 you know, I might be inclined to agree if gold buying hadn't been a thing for 20 years. We didn't have GDKP everywhere in 2004 and there were so many gold farmers it was international news. (It existed but was not nearly as common) kids now come to expect transactions in their games so they are willing to spend money. The incentive is not gone. We don't ban parties when people are killed from drinking and driving.
People never showed this level of hate towards blizzard or the bots that I have seen this week towards GDKP players. People are literally harassing and bullying players.
The AH still exists. People will want to get the best gear. Not to mention you earn massive amounts of gold via quests. GDKP was a way to offset the inflation and spread the wealth. Now people will be more incentivized to buy gold because another honest gold making method is gone.
Blizzard is attacking a symptom not the problem. This will create a squeeze and they will just release a token like they always do.
I'm not a fan of Blizzard telling me how I can play the game or spend my gold when I've played this game since some of the devs were in diapers.
Lastly, blizzard has a history of hamstringing player interaction in their game. Ironically they have the biggest player base. But over time they have removed the need for a player socialization or interaction and it's been a theme across their games. They want you playing a theme park on rails not a world to experience and be yourself. (This is made evident that guilds have only been a glorified chat room and have mostly gone unchanged in 20 years.)
I'm mad and I'm not mad at you, sorry for the rant but blizzard has been on thin ice for many of us.
Ban the bots. Ban the gold buyers. Sodapoppin was very publicly not banned harshly for buying gold. If it's worth banning honest players for a play style it's worth banning bad actors that literally ruin the market by buying the gold. Gold buyers are the incentive.
How about giving organizers.
A ''unique'' Pets or Mounts''
That you can only GET by Organizing.
after a 52 resets of raidleading a raid you'll get a title. That is very cool looking and unique.
To the reward regarding having too many emblems and nothing to waste them on.
It could be like some kind of RNG Protection.
For example if an item didn't drop in lets say.
16 resets.
A player could buy that item in some shop, for 95% of their Current ''Emblem Value''
Smart
HOW exactly are they banning GDKP? what is stopping people from trading loot for money?
What's stopping them is that they will get banned if they do that.
Policy change, it is against the TOS for Sod I guess so you can do it but you risk a ban.
Egregious levels of cheating to gold farm happens on every server endlessly. Even if blizzard suddenly decided they wanted to enforce rules and banned everyone who does participate in gdkp it will still occur by using discord/out of game chat or other methods.
@@viewer54322 that's not going to work though. If they trade large sums of gold in a raid or through the mail they will just ban you.
@@viewer54322 industrial level gold farming is harder to get rid of,since they do it as a business. and blizzard running wow is also a business,so even if there is tools to combat rmt,the costs are too high so they use as little money as they can to make as much profit as they can.
people dont JOIN gdkps to make irl money,they join it to get gear. yeah some people make gdkps to make money,but its easier to combat that with ingame bans than its for industrial gold farms.
there is no bulletproof rules,even the rules of the game itself,eg physics engine can be manipulated with speedhacks and flyhacks.
just them making it bannable to spam gdkp runs in chat channels already makes a massive hurdle to create gdkp raids. making it so if you want to make gdkp raids,and keep them running,they have to make a PRIVATE discord/other chat apps with extreme stringent regulations to make sure no one can join there as a spy to report their in game accounts,since hosting gdkps is against the tos and with a chat room where youre making all of the rules of the gdkp raids extremely clear is ample evidence to show that yes,.this is a gdkp raid and not just a normal raid. making it VERY easy for blizzard to ban the hosts if they get into these gdkp chat rooms outside of the game.
If optional, which it would HAVE to be, why would someone late or on an alt opt into not having enough emblems to win anything for weeks? Nobody likes DKP for this reason.
GSPK makes it almost impossible to play as a new player. I could never get into one because I did not have the gear/ or gold. How was i going to get the gear without having the gold ? How was i gonna get the gold without having the gear ?
You can very easily make gold by doing quests at 25. They increased the gold you make with the level cap. Many GDKP runs have a requested minimum of 50g and a minimum bid of 5g and adjusted minimums for set and epics.
Additionally, it's a player driven way to play, you don't have to play that way. Find players that would like to play the way you do.
Players demand proof of achievement in retail, did we ban achievements?
This is such a moronic comment. You're not forced into going to a GDKP. How are you going to get gear once they are banned? The same way you could've gotten gear when they were allowed...right? So what's your point?
The whole server is being affected by people running GDKPs tho. It forces inflation, makes it harder to get consumes and the price to join will only increase since GDKP only redistributes gold among players. If anything we would need a tax on GDKP bids or runs to at least try and combat inflation otherwise, as OP said, new players will be locked out of even participating.
And that will create a system where casual players will be forced to spend more for raiding than they already have to, meaning they will likely be marginalized, quit the game or (since that is our current reality) turn to websites to buy gold to be able to keep up thus further kicking the inflation spiral into action.
In the end since the amount of available gold is likely to increase on any given server anyway it is up to you to decide whether you want to try and keep a somewhat healthy economy for a longer time and not use a system like GDKP or keep a healthy economy for a shorter time for the gain of a pretty dedicated playerbase but at the loss of people who want to/can only join endgame content later, tho you def. Can argue at some point the economy will break regardless to GDKP so there really isnt one best choice it just depends on your view of what enjoyable gameplay is.
@@Srynan literally everything you wrote is wrong
@@Itscarl88 okay wise boy :) agree to disagree is what I would say but you didnt even care to start explaining why or what is wrong ^-^
Someone who has connection in blizzard send this to them
This idea is so good that is never going to be implemented cuz Activision are not as bright minded. They should come up with this idea and it should be in the game as a replacement for gdkp from the start. Unfortunately this is no Blizzard North as we knew it, this is now Activision and recently ms/activision meaning 0 real passionate gamers work on their projects and they will continue to suck , to be out of decent ideas and to implement last resort things when ppl start 2 cry 2 much like this recent change. Sorry Simon .. the idea is very very good, so good that they cant even do it.
Playing normal like everyone?
I like the ide
Sounds just like wrath so what's the difference?
The auction part
This basically just seems like DKP. And swipers will not like it, because they still have to earn it over time rather than just max bidding.
Swipers won't like it? Too bad for them.
Good idea! But the issue i see is for people who play with a guild most of the time, or just some of the time.
They will get a lot of emblems stacked, if they dont have to use them in their own raids, and get the loot free. So what will happen is that they will stockpile these emblems, and can then use em all on a few items later in a phase, and none of the people who had to use emblems for gear earlier in the phase can even compete when bidding.
If emblems get redistributed, this is great. The players without a lot will gain a ton from the people willing to drop their load.
Aren't they implementing currency for gnomer raid?
They were going to add tokens not currency
They should do this in every mode of the game not just SoD. Players are the reason I take breaks from the game. Most people don’t have fun they just min max and ruin it for casuals
Nice hat haha
What ive been noticing afternthe ban, that everyone and their mother who buy gold for gdkp are now screaming at the rooftops claiming they dont buy gold to buy gear in GDKP. Ive seen it in my guild, ive seen it in forums and ive seen it in discord chats. The VAST majority of GDKP players do in fact buy gold to aquire loot, and were proud of it, and openly admitted to it, and now that its banned, they no longer was to admit they are pay to win players.
Blizzard isnt fooled, and neither am i. Its a toxic way to play, and GDKP players know this deep down.
The average GDKP player has a fragile ego and overvalues parses as a means for self worth, and a means to feed their ego ti improve their self worth so they can belittle worse players. Its all too common
And you're hoping these people will now play with you or something? This doesn't open up the pool of players to play with. And even if the idea worked, all this would do is lower AH prices, nothing more.
This is an MMO, people play the way they wish to.
Don't like GDKP? Don't do it! It's that simple. Very fascist to stomp out other players play style because you have a feeling about it. It's a dead give away with how emotional you are about these players by attacking them rather than the issue. You have an issue with human behavior and you want to control it because you don't like them, just admit it. There is nothing wrong with playing to parse. (I don't care about parsing NOR do I buy gold. And I play in a GDKP guild with some players who do with very low payouts. They are great people with great attitudes. Not everyone is a snob.)
Ban the bots, ban the buyers it's not hard. Whales will be forced to buy from the AH now. Get ready for it.
@mikeygduv the fact you said banning buyers and bots isn't hard sort of makes your opinion redundant and quite stupid.
@@Madlux14 It's not hard, it's just not worth it for them financially. They would either pay for more staff like they once had or they would lose subs or both. They are incentivized to keep them around.
Just wait, the AH will be bananas, it'll be the only source for whales now.
the big problem with GDKP is that most of buyers inside these raids are chinese gold buyers.
So they do the game of the bots in wow.
Ban those players is not the final solution to the problem, but I hope less people will buy gold after that.
Could also make ALL stuff you can buy from emblems BoE or make Emblems account wide. So you earn emblems on main characters wich you can then use on an alt for tier pieces or something else... hmm could also make the 264 token BoA
permission to swag out?
Who benefits the most from gdkp ?
Gold farmers and top tier guilds that can carry the buyers
How do you think your clients got that gold ? By buying it not farming the gold
What will gdkp players do when the system is ban ? Play the game normally how it was designed OMG you want to make wow pay to win . Came here from guzu reaction to you video
The emblem auction idea does seem interesting.
In the ideal world, GDKPs are great, but with the way Blizzard enforces RMT and botting, it's just not feasible to think that GDKPs don't help encourage cheating in the game.
They did say they are looking at metrics with the banning of GDKPs to see if it is successful and I'm curious what those metrics would look like and what would cause them to go back on the GDKP ban.
I like that they are at least trying to do something though and it's interesting that they have been given so much leeway to spend an entire phase (at least) in trying something so radical for group play.
just add wow tokens
And if only that loot system got the emblems that then had s conversion to gold or other items as you suggested it would ruin the ofher types of runs
yay simon time
oh em geez. WE NOT GONNA BAN DA GOWLD BUYERS AND BOTS soooOOoOoo the players have to suffer for ti.
I'm happy to see them go. I think the RMT is more pervasive and corrosive than you think, and GDKPs can't exist fairly in such an ecosystem. I only take my alts to my in-guild GDKPs because I don't expect to win anything at non-RMT prices. It's just a way for me to fund things while other people get their loot 1st. In a fair world, gdkps are fantastic. We are, sadly, not in a fair world.
Which is why I like some parts of your emblem system. The largest hurdle between non-gdkp and gdkp is "this costs me something" vs "this earns me something". If Emblems can break even or at slight profit on consumable costs (if not spent on loot), they could be welcome. A very large caveat to this though is that no one will ever, EVER spend their emblems on something gold related because that transaction, by its very nature, cannot be reversed. And they've given up currency for future gear.
"In a GDKP everyone gets something for their time" is such a bullshit line. It's a game. You've already committed to burning your time. If the game itself isn't fulfilling of your time, its your choice to play it that is the problem. Imagine needing an incentive to play a game when you could just play some other game that would be more satisfying. The language you guys use to talk about this is similar to that of a job and that's just a fucked perspective to hold for a game lol
Emblem idea is lame, would work cause raidleader Are not motivated to host runs for The same benefits as everyone else
People would do loot council horde the emblems and go to another persons raid to spend them all and get the loot.
What has loot council to do with that? The emblem drops for everyone .What are you even talking about?
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 he’s talking about essentially a gdkp where emblems are the new currency that you can only get from raids. In this hypothetical scenario what would prevent someone from running their guild as a loot council collecting all the emblems and not spending them then entering another persons “emblem gdkp” raid just to buy items with all the saved emblems.
@@Remiiu8So what I understood is this (also considering his previous vid on this topic): The emblems are not redistributable. As in wrath or other wow versions, when a boss falls, each player gets one or two emblems. They are not tradeable via the normal trade window. Instead, when boss loot drops, a "bidding window" pops up, where you can bid on that item. The emblems get redistributed to the raid automatically after the RL presses an button "end raid" or something like this.
I mean the details need to be wormed out in general. What if there are 50 emblems to distribute but 40 players. Who gets one, who gets two? Or do we get some floating point value amount of emblems?
@@Remiiu8 but in general I don't see why a guild would go through raids just to feed one single person or a few persons with emblems
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768Take an iconic weapon like Thunderfury. Say you need 5 to kit out your group. Spend a few weeks in MC where you coordinate over voice bids. The whole raid then funnels their emblems to a small group that can essentially run splits with other people to get the bindings as fast as possible. The point is that any currency/token based system is exploitable and the player base will figure that out as soon as it is implemented.
Dude, you totally skipped over like 10 things that were bad about gdkp, and started talking about good things about gdkp during what was supposed to be the bad things. What about how it destroys the economy because of the inherent incentive it gives for people to buy gold. All we have to do to see what happens in an open gdkp environment is look at the wrath servers, and the era servers. The economy was destroyed in both of them. I usually like your videos, but you totally lost me on this one when you failed to cover all the bad points. Bias much?
gdkp is so nice. i wonder if they could do some sort of max bid system or maybe create a giant universal DKP discord . it might be hard to police tho. they should just re enable gdkps and get better at banning bots. while they are at it they need to ban warlock summon spam from chat and give them their own /taxi channel
Atm people are doing gdkp in wotlk and then transferring their gold to SoD....
The problem is the worst shitter in the raid that comes without cons and buffs and parse a 25 get the same amount of benefit as the punper comming fully prepped and doing great. This is why nothing can beat a good lootcouncil yoy get the good items on the good player which is alot fairer imo.
If there is no reward pot at the end, it can't replace GDKP.
Gold losses a lot of its power if GDKP's are removed. So it doesn't matter as much to have 1000's of gold. You're primarily buying BOE's and profession stuff
And his idea was that there would be a reward pot at the end, no? That's what's implied by holding an auction for the loot, using the emblems, no?
Personally i think it seems like a mild improvement over GDKP, assuming the emblems are BoA, so you can still use alt raiding to fund your main. However, i'm not in favor of the suggestion, as the "everything is PUGable" reality is damaging to the social fabric of playing the game. I'd prefer a game that gates and prevents players from experiencing content, if they don't put themselves in a permanent social organization. That sounds like a much better experience than the current 'TINDERificated' game.
I'm all for the ban and welcome it. But I'm very concerned in how it was worded by blankly stating that trading gold for loot will be actionable.
There's many times where I'd be running with a full group of friends and a friend and I would greed roll a piece of gear, he'd win and decide he didn't really care for it and offered to give it to me, I'd tip him a gold or 2 as a buddy. This was me being nice to a friend. But by their blank statement that is now actionable.
Some other concerns:
What constitutes "loot"? Is it just BoP items from the instance? Makes sense and this is the most likely case.
But what if it's any piece of gear? I've gotten BoEs in the raid and someone offered to buy it after they lost the roll.
All items are technically considered loot. Will I be banned for paying a friend for consumables because I forgot mine?
They just need very hard and clear distinctions on these.
No it is not smh
@@fritzschnitzmueller3768 Explain why then? Copied straight from the forum post:
"We’re defining GDKP as any raid or dungeon run where items are awarded in exchange for gold. Please note that we have multiple detection methods for GDKP that are effective both inside and outside of dungeon or raid instances."
Explain how my examples do not fit this definition.
Sorry but you're playing dumb here. We all know what gdkp is. Paying a friend for a consume bc you forgot yours isn't. Blizzard wouldn't dare to ban ppl for this
this gets rid of dogshit players, gold buyers , bots all kinds of garbage gets rolled
you really think its going to change rmt bots and gold buying?
@@viewer54322yep in sod sure. The people who buy gold will now pay the raid directly Money and this will no longer negatively impact the economy.
@@viewer54322 It absolutely will. If this gdkp ban is actually properly enforced and isn't super easy to avoid then people will legitimately stop doing them.
GDKP isn't the ONLY reason people buy gold, but it is definitely the largest factor. Instead of buying 1,000 gold, now they'll buy 100 gold (example numbers) due to the costs of everything else in the game being significantly less (those boes on the AH wouldn't be selling for 500g+ if botting wasn't so rampant)
And if people buy less gold, then sellers make less money. When they make less money, they start scaling back to reduce costs which in return reduces botting. Instead of running 100 bots they run, 10. (example numbers).
It's simple supply and demand. If you slash demand then supply is forced to reduce to avoid overrunning costs.
People look at everything as all or nothing, 0% or 100%, black or white. 0 bots is impossible, but 10 is a lot better than 100.
The bigger issue though is there's already extreme damage done to the market. If SoD launched with this ban then botting would have been much less prevalent from the beginning.
hopefully some, less things to buy / farm gold for GDKPs harbor at least 90% gold buying trash@@viewer54322
I can see this being abused hard. Every guild run, every run done will be using this system of loot. People will just do it to collect their emblems from bosses then roll off loot like normal /100. Winner min bids for the loot they won. This would create a massive influx of whatever these emblems could be traded in for which would just most likely be gold adding a ton of gold into the game which is never good. Just look for a guild their are many guild who run ms/os or SR style loot or maybe not even a guild but rather a discord community on the server where people host runs all the time. Everything will be fine
The biggest problem I forsee with your emblem method is this: most weeks you raid with your guild with emblem mode on but you actualy use loot council by having one person win each item for min bid. Then after a few weeks when you are benched you can go to a pug and obliterate anyone else's bids with your stored emblems. It seems like you would never not have emblem mode on.
it aint perfect, but i'll take that over joining a MS>OS rolls raid any day. thats a lot of extra work to make what you are suggesting happen.
@@SimonizeShow as someone who has only done MS > OS in phase one (in guild and PUG runs) and has enjoyed that, what is the major issue with it? Is it just not getting the loot?
I dont want to be offensive, I really think you did a good job laying out why the backlash at GDKPs might be too harsh but I think the main problem here is an attitude of "I am entitled to a reward any time I do anything in this game" that mostly seems to occur when raiding starts to be viewed as a chore not a fun experience.
Could guilds set their loot system to emblem auction to get emblems but handle the loot via whatever normal method they typically do? Like if they do loot council, they tell raiders not to bid on an item. The only player that bids on the item is whoever the LC decides gets the item. These players benefit from the guild run but also are getting emblems as much as GDKP players and get to spend them more on NPCs or pool them risk-free to outbid the regular emblem auction player.
Great idea, cant stand normal raids, or guild raids. Guilds always favour their IRL friends so loot is never fair. GDKP or DKP raids are the only fair version.
Blizzard should give people geared gold and not recieve it until the end. Blizzard should make it so loot isn´t recieved until the end. Blizzard can fix all of this but they won´t. Blizarrd either doesn´t know how too or they are just plain incomeptent.
blizz should hire you
Brilliant Idea. Hope Blizzard sees this.
You must not be able to buy raid gear with gold and that's that
nah
your kinda suggesting DKP
might as well just give us smart loot and call it a day.. personal loot //
Remember the GDKP ill gotten gold is made from the AH which affects way more people over time
GDKP is not ill gotten. Buying gold is ill gotten. Please do not confuse this. Bots create gold, not GDKP.
I love gdkp. I wish we had the emblem option though