What was actually the BIGGEST New World Launch problem... (PoE Dev Chris Wilson)
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2022
- Full video: • Dev Log: Talking to Ch...
Dev Log: Talking to Chris Wilson about Path of Exile
Related talk to how big MMO's should be lead to the conversation of New Worlds insane +1M players launch and the catastrophic end of that launch week. What is the biggest, the most critical concern and failure of that launch that Path of Exile Developer Chris Wilson would've done differently?
Chris Wilson is Co-Founder of Grinding Gear Games which is the creator of Path of Exile. Chris currently works as developer and producer of PoE.
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Игры
Full 45minutes long video: ruclips.net/video/KU6d1PL8xRQ/видео.html
I found this channel, but i don't play a single mmo, or any of the games i've seen on his videos. I just watch the videos because i like hearing eloquent people explain things.
Well, just in case this isn't his main channel
#GAYFORJOSH
Pretentious prick u are. Josh is awesome though
If you ever tune in for his stream, please do not ask him to fix his camera or center the screen
We always regret it
Than pleas watch the whole Interview betwen Josh and Chris
He hit the nail on the head there, I was following New World launch and would probably jump in but all those exploits made me feel like I would always be behind, there are tens of thousands of people with insane advantage I would never be able to match (without exploiting myself which I would never do) and all my achievements would feel empty and worthless. It completely killed my interest in the game.
I wanted to play the game because I liked the idea
but then the economy which was what I was interested in got fucked over
This could even be extrapolated to all of Western Society right now as the primary driver of mistrust
Same here
biggest issue was not the economic, the biggiest issue was how poorly designed the weapons and spells where and balance, and ontop of that what to do and how to get better gear how little rewarding it was.
the best itemlevel gear had like a 0.0.1% increase in damage output becuse how stats with itemlevel worked.
they increased armor alot, but damage output didnt not increase per itemlevel. and then we can go into how horrible the dungeons and raids etc how horrible that was, economic damage sure it was bad.
But iwhat i just said was just as bad if not worse.
@@FuzioNda1337 That's if you played, but from an outsiders perspective the economic issue is what kept us from playing in the first place. I'm sure even if the economy was fine and there was no depth to the gear it would have put us off too and we'd have quit early.
I really like this dev, he just seems very genuine and down to earth.
I watched WoWs recent interviews and they feel like they are reading of a script, like a bunch of paid actors.
Sadly POE is not a game genre that i enjoy but its cool to see its success, a friend of mine has played it for thousands of hours lol.
I absolutely agree. He sounds like a guy who likes playing games and who understands players. Not a powergamer, not a hardcore PvP'er, not an exploiter, but a real genuine player who plays for fun and progress. I think he's on the same page as Josh there.
To be fair, WoW is a much larger game. With that comes a much larger playerbase, much larger expectations, and much larger consequences and fallout for saying something wrong. They also have an entire overhead of corporate suits waiting to replace them at a moments notice if they hurt the company's bottom line. It would be foolish not to read from a script when doing an interview. I can promise you there are developers at Blizzard that fucking hate their job and what the company has become but are kind of stuck there. That being said, I still agree with what was said here 100% and I wish Blizzard could go back to how they were so long ago and make fun games again, but they're way too big and corporatized to do that at this point.
It's not just a dev, it's the CEO.
If you didn't try PoE yet, you should even though it's not a genre that interests you, it's free :).
(I discovered I enjoyed Battle Royales when friends forced me to play Apex Legends xD)
@@Xyruvial He didn't say anything that was wrong though, to be fair. Blizzard are unsalvageable, there's no way back for them now. They play to scripts, they're beholden to money men, they are likely staffed by people who hate what they do but hey, it's their job. He wasn't defending Blizzard, he was laying it out like it is. Blizzard are on a one way track, now. If you don't like what Blizzard are, then don't give them money. Don't expect them to change for the better, or go back to how they were. It's just not going to happen.
@@Xyruvial If the person above you didn't post a "statement of fairness" then you certainly didn't either. A generalization that companies are greedy, except the one you're currently fanboying over, is a pointless statement. And I assure you lots of players are upset about PoE optimization whenever I log in to play a couple of hours. Which is a waste of time for me cause this game is completely catering for the hard core grinder.
But my gripe with PoE (because I don't have a beast of a machine to get stable 300+ fps) is ironically the economy. The thing the game dev was patting himself on the back, in a roundabout way. There's no auction house! So when a new player finally gets to the "end game" it's on them to maneuver the complexity and etiquette of player to player trading... Unnecessarily complex for such a basic function.
This interview aged so well
It's so amazing
Quit PoE after nearly a decade because of the time commitment but this just makes me appreciate Chris & the GGG team, the time spent making the game and the time I spent playing it even more
LOL are you me?
@@dizzy2020 How can someone take something from you in PoE? Now ofc. If you are racing to be amongst the first players to get to UElder drops, then maybe. But that will only last for the first few days of the league. And only if you play on trade league. There's plenty SSF players in the game - and if you play like that - dosen't realy matter how fast you get there, as long as you get there realy.
PoE is no different than any online game realy. If you want to play MMO for example - even "casual friendly" one like FF14, getting in a server first guild will require 15h + of gametime every day. Or more. It's just how it is.
I have the oposite experience with PoE. Even if you play semi-efficiently, you can make 3ex/hour farm. And 30ex build can clear basicaly all endgame content, if it's worth it's salt. League lasts 3 months ... so yeah. I play this game very casualy.
You quit at a good time. Hes ruined his own game for basically 95% of the playerbase.
literally me. I endured the all launch issues of New World, but when it turned out that there was mass gold duping and the trading post became a mess I stopped playing and haven't launched it since.
I'd give it another shot it's almost night and day from launch day and the update at the end of this month is really good
@@not_madness809 they had their chance. Let that game burn and die the same way Jeff bezos should and would do the world a favor.
@@not_madness809 no
@@not_madness809 All that chest farming must have fried your brain.
This dude knows what he talks about, major respect for him, as a Diablo 2 fan I wish the actual Diablo team had a man like him on board.
listen blizzard is dead and they will never make a truely great game again without putting your wallet in a choke hold
@@lv100Alice they can make good games, but the issue is the freedom of their teams and their monatization structure, every good worker they have is fleeing as well by how they run the company.
The horrible reality is that there probably IS one or two people like him on the diablo team, and they are being forced to make things like Diablo Immortal instead of listening to their opinions.
@@Zhiloaxeman that may very well be true
It is Bobby's world, and you are just living in it.
And Bobby cares about his bling, not yours.
Calling Chris Wilson a "POE dev" is like calling Kojima a "Konami employee".
he likes being called a "dev" or "head developer" whenever he introduces himself
maybe because some key employees left so he had to read some code again ?
It's literally not because Konami isn't a game lol
@@Eorzat GGG = PoE. They don't have other games. When you say PoE dev, you can only mean GGG dev. Good try though, Captain technicality.
Great to see you clipping up the full-length interview and throwing up shorter clips on particular topics for those who may not have as much time to watch the whole video.
A good recommendation is putting time stamps in longer videos so people can have a "preview" of what topics are to come or what is being discussed.
It seems that most of these modern day developers have their gaming ideologies tied into their profit making strategies. So it shouldn't be that hard for them to figure out how important the simulated profit making for the players should be. It's hard to feel sorry for them or trust them, after all these modem day development practices, that are clearly enforcing RNG gambling mechanics for children.
I think you're on the right track.
I also think it's a combination of things. The present day developers are mostly doing it for the money and a comfy job, zoomers or whatever the kids call themselves today, not really for the passion of it. You can easily tell the difference even amongst indie titles which ones passionately care about their projects in terms of it being a game and a form of entertainment, and the others whom are almost solely focused on the revenue the project can bring in. The other part of this, I think, is the money people and venture capitalists getting involved and taking a very direct approach to what's being produced.
@@EbonyGerm lmao, atlus with shin megami tensei and persona.
You all think that you can can't balance "casual for everyone" game and hardcore "passion game".
Atlus literally always do that, in fact i can name many developer with this kind of method from type moon, atlus etc.
You can always create a cash grab casual game to fund other project
@@r3zaful that dont apply to greedy shallow thinkers whose only success measure is profitability.
Yep.
Ive been in an mmo where the economy basically just collapsed because of a few updates adding specific new items combined with a couple of new very p2w items being added to the cash shop, not even due to any exploits or so, but over the span of a few weeks prices of many items in the game essentially rose to dozens of times what they were before, the economy just completely went to shit and the game started dying out very quickly afterward.
What game was it?
@@lauramonjas3131 Scarlet Blade.
A game run back then by Aeria games, if youre curious about the levels of p2w I was talking about.
Currently only playable on a private server since Aeria shut it down, which is a lot better about some stuff (like drop and enhancement rates, since theyre not trying to sell you your gear anymore) but also somewhat struggling with a dead playerbase at anything that isnt the endgame.
Damn, this is a good video and a great part of your conversation. Mighty important topic, and I just love Chris Wilson's stance on it.
He is so direct, straightforward and on point here. Awesome. He absolutely nailed it. People forget about server issues, once they're sorted. But they don't forget about 'their stuff'.
As someone who doesn't play MMOs but who has friends/families that do, your video reviews and analyses are invaluable in helping me keep up. I have used your videos as references when I'm not sure what folks are talking about. 😅 Thank you for the content you make; your videos are enjoyable to watch even if I don't always understand everything the first time through.
major props for putting the subtitles just in case the audio couldnt be 100% comprehensible
Lost Ark's bot problem (regarding economic damage) in a nutshell. Thank you for this interview and especially the clip as Chris Wilson put it in such an excellent way.
if poe dont have trade bots, at the end of league you didnt buy any item you want. Strange paradocs - bots for poe keep economy ant trade alive. Even when people complane about it, they love to buy 2screaming essence of woe for 1c. Normal players NEVER do that just how small amount of value this trade have.
Every Diablo fan wishes they had Chris Wilson working on D4 as well...PoE has some of the best ideas in ARPGs
God. It’s amazing how Chris Wilson is well spoken and very knowledgeable.
I love this Guy.
Let me tell you a story of mine:
It is around 20 years ago when I was teleporting with my sorceress through the Durance of Hate lvl2 to find the Exit to Level3. She had that Lightning skill that Hit enemies randomly from above. So I was teleporting and suddenly heard that Lightning and that *clong* sound far away..I was already 3 rooms ahead because of the fast teleport but decided to go back and have a look out of curiosity..the story of my first Stone of Jordan
Feel free to add yours
This is where I'd put my store of my first SoJ, but I never found one.
The full interview is such a good watch
I initially thought I was going to disagree, but then I thought about my experiences with Phantasy Star Online 2 and why I was so burnt out about the grind there. And it was because the grind there was so economy dependent, it was such a "you must grind currency for X cosmetics and play the stock market eternally with a million alts". And yeah, I think I get it from that perspective.
so true but when bots exist in every game it does make a player feel defeated, every economy is instantly ruined and its hard to afford items when everyone buys from gold sellers
Chris is right on the spot. I loved Neverwinter when it first came out, then did a recharge and got my account banned and never played it again, because they had a duping bug THAT WAS ALREADY PRESENT IN THEIR STAR TREK MMO and some people just printed Diamonds and spread them on alt accounts. No reset. Nothing.
I know this isn't related to the content of the video, but Josh and Chris both have the most pleasant voices.
THANK YOU for the subtitles. Big fan but hard of hearing. Subtitles help me so much! ❤
I was big on economy in new world, sold everything straight away, made a chunk of money the first day to reinvest and reinvest over and over again growing my bank, in the end I controlled about 7 markets of our realm/server.
But new world's exploits.. that it was playersided and not server sided letting alot of people abuse exploits.
Duping took a big swing at my game.
Investing everything you got into various stuff and then the next hour you see the entire market filled from nowhere when it shouldn't be able to exist in that amount, or when they had to shutdown the server and then took the market offline making it so that people farmed up materials for 1-2-3 days before the auction house came online again completly deflated the entire market and took all my assets of value and chopped it too bits and that happend not once not twice, but three times atleast where I went and invested everything and the market shutdown cause of some dupe..
I even where in contact with support, but of course they couldn't be of any help, automated/scripted response.. and no effort in problem solving a problem wich is so big for so many players that play the game differently, people that play the market.
Wow, Now with the PoE Disaster this video turns out to be gold lol
I really hope some game dev somewhere reads this.
I played New World religiously on launch and I was one of the few who stuck it out through the bugs, server issues, pvp bugs, economic bugs etc for months after launch.
The thing that made me quit was the changes to pvp flagging that gave you a massive bonus to loot drops. This was a massive middle finger to anyone with a more solitary playstyle. I spent 5 hours being griefed/killed over and over whilst i was trying to gather materials by someone who didn't even want the resource for themselves, they just wanted to ruin my experience. Unfortunately it just made more sense to flag and be killed over and over than it did to go unflagged because the % increase of the loot drop was still more efficient but I was no longer enjoying myself so I quit.
Now that guy probably has nobody left to grief and has quit too.
Any game system that sets people up for non-consensual pvp is just bad game design. Stop it.
Sorry but I have to disagree about that, because you have the option to disable the pvp and avoid the whole conflict. The risk you take for flagging for pvp warrants having some kind of benefit compared to earlier in the game where there wasn't any incentive to flag for pvp because it damaged your gear really bad for dying and cost a lot to repair initially for basically no reward.
Personally I generally don't enable pvp most of the time because I'm not interested in looking over my shoulder all the time while gathering or doing quests. Especially not a fan of someone griefing and ruining any enjoyment I might have, so I'm all for optional pvp compared to being forced into it.
"Any game system that sets people up for non-consensual pvp is just bad game design."
I agree. But the thing is, the flagging option makes it consensual. Played New World and am currently playing Albion online. I flag and I get pissed if I get killed, but mainly at myself coz it was my choice. In the end it was your choice that flagging was worth it.
Im the same with solitary playstyle and because of that there is no hurry to progress and toggle pvp. The community is what in the end killed the game so im not trying to compete with that and the game actually feels the best enjoyed at a slow rp-like pace.
the economy part is SO true - i dont think i even realized it at the time, but i could forgive combat breaks but I NEVER got back in bc i was afraid that the economy would completely implode for the 2nd or 3rd time
I'm addicted to Path of Exile. It is true that when i sleep, i'm dreaming about my progression and the items that i'd want.
I'm also dreaming about correcting those server issue and some way that the items can sell while i'm sleeping.
Summed up one of the main reasons I quit that game.
Had a wonderful time playing NW, but, when I woke up and everyone was in full voidbent, and allowed to keep it, I was like.... Nope.
Might go back to it, someday.
Game economies are a massive hazard for MMOs of all kinds. Destiny didn't have player trading because blizzard (Who Bungie asked for advice about this) straight up told them not to have player trading.
While it's pretty much their own fault, I can certainly see why Blizzard would have suggested having no trading back in 2014.
Destiny is a trash game due to its business model with the witch queen. I uninstalled the game with a feeling of digust similar to that of diablo immortal. "Get the fuck off my systems"
@@brendameistar what is it’s business model
great vid!
New World had the potential to be one of the biggest and most succsessful MMOs in the western world. Yet again a release that was way too early with an attitude of 'we will fix it as we go' saw the game decline massively. It was the first MMO that I and I know others were truly excited to play that came along in a perfect placed time with dissatisfaction wth WoW at an all time high and people in lockdown.
"Fix it as we go" can work; but you still need the core that works, and you can only afford problems that can actually be fixed.
Never really saw any major exploits in GW1, they made the game in such a way that it was really resilient to hacking, I always thought that must be really hard to do as a programmer on top of making a complex video game. There are tonnes of bots in the game and always were, but GW2 also suffered from bots at one point early on, most mmos do. The only exploit I can think of in GW1 was the Guild Hall Glitch whereby pre searing characters could gain an Elite skill.
Heh, there weren't many exploits, but there was at least one or two that significantly impacted the game's economy, where Ectos, Ambraces and very rare Minipets such as Polar bears got mass duped. When talking about the richest of the richest, it was common to talk about how many stashes of duped Ectos they had,...
I personally remember one instance where servers had to be rollbacked because of an exploit.
That being said, it's true that these issues were fairly limited and contained
Chris’s genuine answer, on the spot, is on point!
I've never played PoE but really impressed with this Dev, he's right, if your economy is fucky, you're fucked. It takes a full reset to fix it. You only have to look at a game like RuneScape 3 for example where so many mistakes were made with the economy (for example, the MTX shop has a huge cash stack prize as one of the rewards, which since been removed) they've been playing catchup for years inventing multiple creative cash sinks (which honestly, are impressive); but it's never going to change the fact that the gold in the oldschool version is worth 6-8x more just because of how inflated the economy has become. Like it's over 1k per a blood rune there which is nuts.
I didn't even know New World is still around.
Crazy how there is such a simple answer, to such a "complex" question... If profit maximization was not at the core of development, we would not have any of these issues.
I played NW like mad at launch. Got 60 relatively quickly, had a ton of fun. Once the gold dupe was made public, and they didn't roll back the servers, I was done. Sad
Developers these days do not understand the issues behind all MMORPG's, like broken economy, build based combat, farming, boring quests, go there, kill that, go back. They are trying to make a game that has all the same mechanics that other MMO games have because it it gives a guarantee that the game will not be immediately abandoned and they copy the same mistakes that other games have too. MMO are in stagnation due to lack of curage to make new kind of content. It doesn't matter that game got some fancy new world with new kind of enemies, new storyline, new resources to collect. In my opinion there are some rules that cannot be broken for the mmo game to actually be good considering that world is already fancy and interesting and almost all mmo games breaks them and players are just tired of it. When the first mmo games came out the tolerance was high, now we have so many games, the tolerance is so low that when the game is released it can be buried in a week because we are tired of playing the same shit in new colors.
He's absolutely right on the money 👍
I'm a pretty hardcore wow player and overall I'm very happy with the game, the biggest issue for me though is an economic one as described. Because I started playing in late BFA, after Warlords of Draenor, I am permanently at a gold disadvantage to people who played during that expansion because the millions you could wrack up doing absolutely nothing but garrison stuff on a few alts. They are still today trying to drain that gold out of the economy
For a minute, i thought that man was Topher Grace. It's uncanny
There should be more devs like Mr Wilson..
"The honey you are dreaming about" The thing*
How did you hear Honey?
Loved new world. #1 company on our server did massive exploits and had 600 gearscore on all 100 members before anyone else and the bug was "locked down" no one got banned, no one got in trouble, economy never recovered. We literally just all stopped playing they got 2 months of grind and progress overnight because one company member got a bajillion gold and bought every resource on the server to spam crafting for the company.
2:57 Store mounts.
Spot on.
I played new world _a lot_ when it launched. And I did quit after all the item/gold dupes started popping up.
chris ✨💫
Its exactly like that. The day I learn about gold exploit I stop playing NW and uninstall it. I was so happy to have progress ingame, to have goal to fight for and it vanish in that cursed moment. There are some fun stuff in NW, some questionable like gear balance ... but the crafting, trading and gathering resources was what kill the fun for me.
such an honest dev
Sacrosanct, what a nice new word I just learnt
100% true about the economy, i would come back to new world if it was "fixed" and fresh start, pointless in playing now or even after the first 2 weeks...
Economic stability, exactly! I remember early mmos and my 1st encounters with botting wich basically is cheating lvls AND gold to a degree. Yet it is such a small issue compared to gold/item duping. Multiple millionares overnight, in game economy crashes, game dies/almost. Some games recover but are never the same. Essentially from an Olympic champ to a vegetable. And who suffers? Mostly the "good" players.
This is SO TRUE
By the third money exploit in New World, I just said fuck it alt f4ed and never opened the game again
I want Chris Wilson as Dev for New World or maybe the Riot Mmorpg xd
He makes a great point about the economy. As soon as the duplications in New World happened I uninstalled the game and still haven’t gone back almost a year later.
This reminds me of the exploit bans that happened during ultimatum league
Economy wasn't the only thing that killed new world. That was just one of the major issues. There was no end game, slow boring pacing, unbalanced weapons, game breaking mechanics, etc. Was just a boring and repetitive game
This same sentiment also applies to P2W and F2P - it's why Lost Ark lost so many people (despite it reflecting a larger success) tons of people abandoned it as well because Credit Card swiping (while not considered a cheat or exploit) makes it inferior to accomplishing something in the game. Like a +25 weapon F2P doesn't feel earned when the guy next to you had his +25 Weapon 6 months ago and no one sees it as an actual accomplishment in the game.
This is why back when "things" as Chris put's it mattered when "that second piece of Thunderfury" dropped, or when you were the only one in Purple, Gold, and White armor in Destiny 2's first Raid walking around the Tower before anyone else, when that first Rogue got his second Blade of Azzinoth and was walking around Orgimmar...these things could not be swiped...and thus they had weight and impact to the community.
This is why Monster Hunter is seeing so much success using a 2000's game formula, in the sea of F2P/P2W bullshit. You have to earn everything in Monster Hunter...and that's what feels good.
I would say the problems with NW were more fundamental.
The developpers should know by then, that MMO communities usually have a focus on a certain activity. For example, some people like crafting, some others like gathering, some like PvP, some like PvE and those don´t always mix.
Some people may be in your game just for the sake of, for example, PvP, so a neat idea would be to have those people not feel left behind, like "ok, I love PvP, however, that is not rewarding in the game and if I want to progress, I need to do X content that I don´t enjoy".
How would I handle this? I would make sure to have plenty PvP content from the get go, like the outpost rush, however, with at least 3 or 4 different maps, each with it´s own geography and based on the different biomes the game has to offer. Also, have arenas for 2v2/3v3/5v5 with a ranking system that gives better rrewards deppending on your ranking. Making world PvP feel rewarding would also be a neat idea, have good stuff for sale on NPCs that woud accept tokens you farm from killing different players around the world and have a system that prevent somebody from just killing the same person over and over again, making that person give you less and less tokens if you just spawn kill him/her as a way to cheat the system.
As for PvE, at least have 1 raid content or 2 from the get go, have the dungeons be accessible for everybody to enter as many times as they like without relying on keys they have to craft or pay other players to craft, have a system like WoW´s mythic dungeons where you would do a certain dungeon with a special key that never gets destroyed, but rather increases/decreases it´s level deppending if you were sucessfull or not on the dungeon you entered and the higher the lvl of the key, the more difficult the dungeon gets with affixes and a timer.
As for crafting and gathering, that was probably the one thing they did well, but even so, I would make it less of a bother to lvl each profession.
It was not hard to come to those conclusions from the get go, they only needed to look at other MMOs and see what systems they could implement to make the game feel enjoyable from the start, so that the new content could be focused on adding new weapons, biomes, dungeons and raids rather than having to iimplement things that should be there from the start.
Totally agree. I quit New World for 2 reasons: 1) The combat system was really bad. Dungeons were *horrible* because of the animation locking, body blocking, and constant evasive enemies. It was a nightmare to play in groups. 2) Exploit after exploit after exploit. It's impossible to care about your progress in a game that is constantly allowing people to cheat and not taking away that exploited progress. It makes your legitimate gains feel meaningless. Like trying to keep up in Borderlands with a guy using a save editor... what the fuck is the point?
So yeah, as drastic as it is to take a game back to beta, it might have been the only thing that could save New World. Once you have exploits not being punished, it's all over.
Try join the game now...might change your mind....ohh and stay away from yt for some time...
@@SynysterVapeS92 There are dozens of games I'd play before trying New World again. It had its chance, and it squandered it. The game is basically dead now, so it's a bit late.
I agree with Chris Wilson here, a stable and well-designed in-game economy is really important for multiplayer games especially MMOs.
I watched the interview in full...10/10
I have to agree, economy is key. You can fix a bad server or bad design, but exploits and economy can ruin a game and hard to recover from. In the end, even in wow, the problem with bots and boosting is related to the economy. P2W is an economy thing, it's all about the economy.
Gotta love the cheesy thumbnail complete with an arrow. You're a RUclipsr, Josh!
Came for the 3 minute video stayed for the 45 minute one.
Dude's eye is still twitching from seeing the PoE skill map.
It's funny because I tried to not care about the economic shenanigans going on with cheaters in NW and it ultimately became too frequent for me to give NW team anymore slack.
I can confirm the importance Chris places on the economy as I linked a screenshot showing concerns on how item quantity originally worked to the games support with someone getting insane loot drops and got an email back from Chris himself
It makes me wish there was a team leader like him for every genre out there
0:53
*ultimatum league Vietnam war flashbacks*
got into new world again recently.
they made so many changes that i reached gold cap. from 1 type of resource alone in my stash.
yup i have 500k worth of life quintessence stockpiled. because the economy was so flawed at launch.
I made more gold not playing the game. than i did playing the game. :D
I can't believe Visa would disagree with Josh's original format for his video.
Does he discuss the poe problems in a 4 hour video afterwards?
I watched the video 3 days ago and today it got me. I loved Archeage. kakao got the license back from gamigo and started a fresh server without p2w and added a monthly sub. I had a great start and alot of fun but left the game for the exact same reason from this video. Economy got destroyed from exploiter and they allowed up to 3 accounts per user.
It was not fun farm or upgrade your character knowing other players will earn the same reward much faster because of exploits or 3 accounts that boost everything into 1 main account.
You can't BUY stuff in New World to equip your char, all the best items is Bind on Pickup. The economy in New World is 99% pointless. (Check out the gear score system, you need to do dungeon runs to get your gear score from 500 to 600, most bought items downgrade.)
The MAJOR issue in new world is that I can login on a 60 player and have nothing to do, because EVERYTHING is gated behind group play and even when something isn't directly gated with group's it's a limited resource, like fishing where you have few hot spots and if two people use the same hot spot they only get 50% out of it each. Many other gathered resources is one person only, so any competition can ruin your day.
Chris is easily my favorite lead dev to listen to, I wish he was in charge of every MMO.
New World needs new fresh servers. No transfers. But first need to deal with all the bots that are still roaming free. I think they fixed the dupes.
I can't remember where but Kay (new world dev) said they are working on cross realm and they stated that group at this time is same world only and labeled wars as same world for now. I think if a server has less than a 500 person peak anyway should be able to leave or go there for free
I love listening to Chris too, but I wouldn't want him to be in charge of every MMO. He has very specific ideas about how games should be (diablo 2-like basically) and while it's great that Path of Exile exists, I don't want every game to be Path of Exile with some variations.
@@lightworker2956 if Amazon hired him to do New World, they already have the game in mind that they want. Game devs switch companies all the time and do completely different genres so idk why you would think he would just make the same game and compete with other titles.
The token in wow did this for me, made me lose all interest in working the auction house or grinding gold, knowing, someone can just spend their real life money to make 300k insantly or whatever.
"There's no reason to play if someone can just cheat their way past you" also sums up Diablo Immortal.
I never got far enough into PoE that there was "an item" I wanted
The gold exploits were the nail in the coffin for me and my friends who were playing and chris really gets it. People were willing to put up with the bugs and exploits in the pvp wars and such but once the economy was screwed there was no reason to play New World anymore.
interesting how that same concept plays out in real life.
its funny because its the exact reason i didnt want to play it after i saw that exploit being abused and them not shutting down and rolling back
yeap, that's what killed new world for me.. I could live with rest of game breaking bugs, they always happen. But how they managed dupe bugs without any rollbacks/wipe just killed whole interest. I couldn't play anymore by knowing that there's plenty of players that laundered tons of gold.
As someone who played New World for about 1-2 months on release I couldnt agree more. The economy in new world was a joke and it wasnt just the exploits. That more than anything made me quit because progression felt pointless.
Odd, I didn't have a problem with the economy so much as invasions being impossible, dungeons largely inaccessible, and the only thing left then was the watermark grind. Also stuff like the healing staff and 1-2 other classes in combination of those were really imbalanced.
@@aoitamashii Invasions were possible with a good team of 50, not sure what you mean by dungeons being inaccessible. The reason I hated the economy was I was in a guild which owned all the biggest cities and I saw first hand how dumb the whole system was, I could grind my ass off to earn 1k an hour or I could simply ask the leader for money and hed give me 100k like its nothing. That combined with saving up for trophies only for them to be duped and flood the market + all the other duping bugs etc that ruined the economy made playing/grinding feel so pointless. Everyone used their infinite money to quickly level everything to max lvl and anything remotely decent on the market got instantly bought by all these people who had more money than they knew what to do with. Thx for attending my TED talk.
@@MightySheep Since when? I think I literally heard of 1 or 2 invasions beat on any server in the first month, and that was due to them bugging out. We basically had cross-faction raids of the best 50 ppl on the server and still never beat an invasion.
Once you get to the final 2 waves you're being attacked by like 2 brutes and 3 spriggans at the same time, who basically ignore taunts and can shred a door in 15-20 seconds.
@@aoitamashii it did take some time but eventually we managed to start beating them consistently by having the best people wearing the best anti corruption gear with anti corruption potions etc and proper use of siege machines instantly reacting to catapults etc, cant say specifically when but it was when people were all in 600gs at that point
I never understand why economy in game is important before this interview came out. I compare this is to economy in DotA.
There are 2 winners in DotA. The highest Net Worth Player and the least Net Worth - but most generous - player.
If the game economy is balanced, players feel how big are the sacrifices and strategies the Supports made to help Carry Players achieve their richest status. Being generous, being achieving, and triumph ALONG others - is a measure of fun. To show our good and best characteristic as a human being is fun.
If someone cheated their way in, the sacrifices will be meaningless and lost its immersion immediately. It would be the same just as someone born richer than the others. This unfairness is not fun.
Then you don't play mmos
Reminds me of when I played on Everquest Test server (a very long time ago). Basically, someone messed with the code and screwed something up server wide, but regular mobs were dropping dragon loot (high end raid content) and everyone was happy that day (and only for that day).
I remember at the time I was sick with a heavy fever and wasn't on the game, but when I recovered I saw the server was still down. Rather than rolling back the server (apparently they couldn't pinpoint when it happened?) or letting things stand, they instead wiped the ENTIRE SERVER of everyone's items (money, gear, consumables, everything), but let them keep their character levels.
This was a test server, but was normally treated like a regular server. There was a major pushback , after all, we were still paying the same subscription money as "regular" players, so eventually we were given the "opportunity" to move our characters to a new server being created, or stay on the abuse server-- I mean test server.
So you had an entire server's worth of naked players on a new server. A lot of people may have quit now-a-days, but a lot of us were determined to stick it out. Everyone from the test server banded together and helped each other rebuild gear (crafting) and items. After all, test server was a small population server so we knew each other for the most part. It was a rare moment of an actual caring community that I have experienced in online gaming. As much as we knew there was a competitive aspect to the game, we also knew the game means nothing without other players.
Economy matters, but players always matter more.
If I have to use cheese, if I have to fundamentally break a game into its constituent parts and use them against a game. I don't want to play it. It's not why I play games. I play games for an experience. That doesn't mean I don't like feeling powerful, it doesn't mean I don't like finding that broken super effective strategy, but it's why I don't play Dark Souls. I tried tp play both Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2 and the only advice (when people could summon up more that git gud) I ever got was how to cheese and exploit the AI, and the last thing I want to feel when I'm playing a game, especially a very atmospheric game is that I'm playing a game. Exploits just shatter that illusion. If I were a big MMO player the second you had that kind of New World level economic exploit I'd be done, I'd never come back because the experience is in tatters.
I understand where you're coming from, but I personally enjoyed Dark Souls. At the time it was first released, many games were very linear and dull. Dark Souls is difficult to enter, but once you understand it the challenge isn't nearly as bad as its hyped to be.
I'm sure the reason people told you cheap/easy tactics to beat Dark Souls was to make it easier for you, not that it is the only way to beat the game. The barrier to entry for Dark Souls is understanding the rhythm of the attacks, spells, and various types/resistances for fights. Many things can be pre-choreographed when going through the game (other than some RNG elements) if you have a deep enough understanding of how the game works. Some fights/events are unfair. You will die was basically the tagline for the game. For ignorant players (like I was when first starting Dark Souls), the game almost feels like you have to use exploits to get past things.
I think the main issue I have with what you said is comparing Dark Souls to MMOs with exploits. MMOs with exploits destroy entire communities because the goals are community driven, while exploits in primarily single player games just reveal your own approach/playstyle (and perhaps how badly you suck?).
New World was NEVER meant to be an MMORPG. I was there in the early days. It was supposed to be an "1000 player server, open world survival game" think Rust but way more players. Open world PvP even (no way to "opt out" or "opt in" it was 24/7 PvP). During the last alpha, the developers decided to say "fuck it" and changed their game from "survival" to "mmorpg" but in order to become an mmorpg, they had to put in another 3-5 years of work, because nothing in the game was meant to be mmorpg. Like imagine spending 2-3 years developing a game, and then in that end time you go "meh, lets make something else" and then try to ship that game 1 year later. That's exactly what happened. Literally 1 year after that alpha they announced release. Now we all know the release was pushed back. But still. The backbone of the game IS a survival game, but they wanted to tell players "its actually an mmorpg." It wasn't....
So, you told survival guys it was survival, then changed your mind. Its not survival enough anymore to hold survival players, and its not actually an mmorpg, so you can't hold onto mmorpg players. the result is a dead game. Going from nearly 1 million players month one to barely 15k players average as of right now. The game simply isn't good enough. Only a few hardcore players remain. In a world where steam has 25 MILLION active users at any given time, holding onto a weak 15k average player base isn't anywhere near "successful"... it proves the game isn't good enough. gamers crave more. The lead developers of new world fucked up. you cannot design a game to be survival then change your mind after 90% of the game exists. imagine making a pixel art rpg game like legend of zelda, and then turn around, change your mind, and expect to release a fully 3d platformer like mario64 or mario galaxy.... it just isn't happening.
The developers didn't say "fuck it". That was the Amazon execs, who were scared of releasing a hardcore server-based persistent PvP game, and forced the change. So instead of a "niche" game with an audience, they forced _everything_ to be watered down, all progression scaled to just take more time (because more time spent is better in an MMO, right?)...
Mind, it's still quite a special game. It still brings back some of the more fun things about MMOs, and the feeling of actually playing the game is pretty solid (unlike the unfortunately run-of-the-mill "WoW killers" that just do another WoW). But of course, you need to play the game for _yourself_ and not get bogged down with things like competition or balancing. That's always been the most fun you could have with most games and especially MMOs. I completely ignore the chat, because it's always full of stuff like "Looking for DPS, NO BOW OR MUSKET". I don't need minmaxers in my _roleplaying_ games (it's also one of the biggest reasons I never got into WoW - it was full of "production line" players who wouldn't tolerate the slightest deviation from their optimised raiding runs, talent trees... no fun, no variation, just keep doing the same thing 50 times a day, quitting as soon as something doesn't go to plan). The fun is there; just don't let the endless optimisers kill that for you and you'll be fine.
15k players isn't bad. I think the game would have had more active players if they stuck with _not_ making it an MMO, yes. Private servers, custom rates, fun with friends. They'd probably do about as well as Ark. But it's ridiculous to say 15k daily players is a failure. Every game out there doesn't have to be (and cannot be) in the top 10. How boring would that kind of universe be? Everyone just rushing to be in the top for their few months of glory, instead of making interesting new games and having people enjoy them, right? :P
Politicians could learn from this.
Yo cheers for hard coding in closed captions.
LITTERALY A GOD !!! TY CRIS !!! I BAY MORE BOXES AND SETS !!!
The biggest problem is that GGG was not there to fix it. They are doing such a great job with every league launch
this man may just be the king of games
Seems very much he has taken the phrase "There is nothing in the world more powerful than compound interest" and applied it to the negatives of a bad economy.
Yup. All very true. I left because of the constant bugs and new bugs surfacing after attempts to fix current bugs. Clearly the dev team were in way over their head.
As much as Chris Wilson is right, he is also kind of overlooking that there was a league a year or so ago where there was massive problems with server crashes letting people dupe items with the guild stash.
It was pretty high profile that some of the early traders had duped stacks of exalts from it as soon as people noticed it was happening and no rollback happened at all so it seems it's a lot easier to say you would roll back aggressively than it is to actually do it.
Cant remember the league but there was a fated connections podcast with balor mage talking about it cause his group lost a rmr corruption on a jewel by not knowing and doing the reverse of the dupe from that patch and i believe he talked about someone showing him a full stack of exalts they had duped.
Well to be fair, he didn't say rollbacks in general. He specifically emphasized the _first_ _launch,_ which is the biggest deal for a game, and also the easiest to roll back because he didn't even say roll back, he said shut down the game and restart fresh after fixing the issues.
well that problem happened is due to why he is saying this, its not really just a server problem but rather a game exploit, the bug is about how people can exploit game latency to dupe item which happened because some spaghetti code allowed it to happen in the first place, which they will do whatever they could to fix the main issue which is the duping item part and not the choppy latency part..
so yea, what he is saying right here is exactly because what happened during that league, and the crashing/server issues that happened most league lanches happened not because they overlooked it, they keep their resources else where and it happened because the game is naturally growing and peaking every new league.
still waiting for auction house instead of spend most of my play time sending trade message，dealing with price fixing, scammers and afker.
A proper AH will never happen due to Chris Wilson’s ego.
Console has a mini AH where buying is streamlined but searching is garbage.
On PC searching is streamlined but buying is garbage.
He is spot on with the economy comment for me. I quit Wow because I was so offended by Immortal and have started playing Diablo 2resurected and Diablo 3 everyday so the Blizzard sees what types of games we really prefer. Unfortunately whales keep playing Immortal. If all gaming goes that way bye bye gaming.
play Poe. Once you learn it you’d be having so much fun.
Im pretty happy that we got Chris. Of course its not all good and PoE has a lot of problems, but I belive he is genuine, when he is talking about wanting the best experience for his game.