Wow! How low will people in companies go? Did you never have to use the restroom? Look at an unusual bird that flies past? Answer a work-related phone call? Wow, just wow!
The lowest I heard was a company had a fire drill. When everyone was in the parking lot, they were told that only those whose names were read would be allowed back in. The rest were fired. Ah, the 90s!
If an employee is inefficient at home they are going to be inefficient in the office too. It is the employee mentality and work ethic that is key not their actual location. Track employees' performance by their targets and deadlines, not their clicks or mouse idle time.
That's it exactly. If they are missing deadlines and milestones consistently, then the monitoring metrics might be helpful to pinpoint a performance issue. Please note, might be... there's some other obvious issues, biggest coming to mind being assigned more tasks and workload than is capable to be handled within effort hours. Which would be a management failure.
Also these softwares dont encourage better work They encourage slower work. Why finish my work before lunch if Im gonna be punished for it? Instead Im taping my mouse to my roomba and playing minesweeper on my laptop
@@Moraca101And the company will know that. Not about the Rhoomba and playing Minesweeper on a laptop, but the spyware can recognize your just randomly clicking your mouse and not actually getting anything done.
The inefficient part is only partly true. For me, depending on the role (and I've had a million of them), I am sometimes more efficient in the office or at home but not both. So, to some degree, time management and other measures of efficiency can vary by location. However, I agree that overall if an employee isn't very good at work they won't suddenly do better because they changed locations. So I hear the sentiment behind your message and I agree that monitoring clicks don't mean much. So much of what I do takes place away from the computer. I have to do a lot of thinking and brainstorming and sometimes I get my best work ideas in the shower or on a walk. That is still productive time as a lot of my value to the team is my ability to come up with creative solutions. And sometimes I have to work through (in my head) the logistics of implementation. Sure, sometimes I brainstorm on a Google Doc, but so much of it occurs in conversations with myself in my head. Lol. Surely they can't be punishing me for not clicking my mouse for 30 mins if I'm using that time to save the company $100,000 by improving an inefficient workflow? The irony...
Monitoring of work-at-home employees has to be different, and based on KPIs - number of invoices processed, etc - rather than the micro-management that happens when you are co-located.
I've not encountered tracking software, but I have encountered "shoulder surfers" in an office before. Someone took issue with the fact that I was streaming classical music while I was working, and the tab was visible for a minute. That person was not in my department, and I requested to be moved away from the kitchen (open floor plan) to avoid these shoulder surfers. Another person outside of my department complained that my co-worker was "browsing websites" - come to find out they were looking up documentation for the task they were doing.
man, i remember the vp of my old workplace would come up to us and shake our chairs saying “good morning!” each time while staring directly at our screen as if he knew what we were working on. needless to say i don’t work there anymore
I worked for a company (student loan processor) and they required that you swipe your badge at every door including bathrooms, kitchen, stairs, elevator, meeting rooms, etc. Every week my manager would tell me how many minutes I spent in the bathroom. They also had installed tracking software and I would have to justify every website I visited during my work day. I hated this job and the managers were more interested in berating and abusing their employees over this nonsense than getting any real work done.
At one place of employment they wanted us to sign in on every computer in our area before using it…even if it was to scan one item. So they could track who made a mistake. We didn’t comply. It just wasn’t efficient for us to continuously sign in then sign out. And we wanted to protect each other so we used the closest computer after each of us had signed into one. No push back happened.
If companies KNEW how much $$$ was being lost due to "productivity" from managers/supervisors and C-level staff based on their yearly compensation, they'd be able to hire more staff. But they ain't ready to talk about that.....
The decision makers are in that management to C Suite band. Theirs is the approved waste. We lowly beggars are not to misplace a penny because all the slack in the budget is allocated elsewhere.
I expect it's fairly common that companies do that if you're using equipment that they provide (not that i agree with it). But if they're trying to do that to your personal computers, that's crossing a line imo.
I wouldn't trust it either way. If you have personal information such as a resume, banking information, or credit card information on your work computer, and they're tracking you (which is remote access), they can confiscate all that data that's personal, and who knows what some lowly, underpaid IT guy would do with it.
@@saraeva my company has us sign a disclosure agreement that we understand that websites etc are monitored - I personally have no personal information on my work computer and I power it off and lock it in a closet at night - also my camera blocks everything unless I actually turn it on.
Sometimes I need to know how much I would weigh on Neptune. And not knowing will make me less productive than if I just took the 3 minutes to find out.
@@01chippe That's right. Every job is the same. Has no meaning. Has no value. You do it just for the money. Management and HR only cares about numbers. Welcome to capitalism: the best we have right now.
A study in the Harvard Business Review found that employees who were being monitored/ tracked were more likely to break rules, like cheating, stealing, and working slowly on purpose. This happened because they felt less in control and less responsible for their actions.
Research has shown that remote workers take fewer breaks than office workers. Remember that it's normal and healthy to step away from your desk and to take breaks. In person, you'd be socializing with coworkers. Nobody has 8 continuous hours worth of work to do everyday.
Thank you. In my work life, talking to fellow employees, getting coffee, treviewing vacations, all sorts of nonwork stuff filled part of the day. And management was worse.
See also, companies blocking websites they deem "bad". I've only ever been blocked from websites that absolutely would've been very helpful for my job. Never blocked from websites I'm just killing time on
In my company we were banned from using youTube--even though that was where all our training was. I had to go home to use youtube to get the training I needed. That *was* nice, but stupid
I don't remember where this was, but one of our clients hired a new person to assist with marketing the company. To do this, she needed access to social media. They blocked everyone (including her) from being able to access social media, then wondered why she wasn't able to do her job. She repeatedly told them they needed to at least make an exception for her to access social media but they wouldn't. The decision maker was an old geezer who just didn't get the internet. This was maybe 2 years ago, so there's no excuse for that. Don't recall if he managed the marketing department or another department in corporate. I felt so badly for her. She wound up leaving after maybe 6 months of fruitlessly trying to drag them into the 21st century.
On the other hand, I once worked for a company that ran an Unreal Tournament server at lunchtime, to keep people on-site. Perversely, staff turnover was the highest I have ever seen.
Once had a manager that wanted key-click counter added. As IT, we pushed it down the priority list so it naver happened. My last manager said, if the work is getting done, why should i care if they load the washing machine.
i would have a mouse with a motor on top clicking 456 times a minute day and night! and looking on the interwebs i would do on a personal device.. these trackers are so easy to manipulate. Almost as bad as masterlock.
I am pretty sure that installing tracking software is illegal at least when it's hardware that you use at home. Imagine they turn on the webcam or microphone. That's insane. At least in germany it's illegal to use it without the permission of the employee and even then there is a case by case basis on what the software monitors and most things are against privacy laws.
@@Soapy-chan No, it is not illegal to monitor their own hardware. The employee putting the hardware in an area that compromises confidentiality is not the company's problem. Unless that state has particular laws for these situations, it is not illegal.
@@GrandMoffVixen and also I just looked it up, in germany, a country where workers have rights, it is illegal to use any software to monitor the usage of the hardware, except only when there is concrete and justified suspicion that the employee uses it for private stuff but even then not all methods to monitor are legal, e.g. keyloggers.
I have worked for some toxic employers before, and every single one of them did things just like this. I love the videos that you make that call this behavior out... And I just love your "I do believe that you believe that" statement at the end!!
Companies have now forgotten the difference between hiring you for your time and hiring you for your output. The demonization of 'professionalism' in favor of 'passion' or whatever employers are trying to replace compensation with. If they hire you for your time, get work done in that time. If they hire you for your output, then you have to work aiming for the output. If they hire you for your output and time, the targets for both have to be clear. Failure or inability to manage is always masked with micromanagement.
If it’s their equipment, then they can monitor it as they wish. Always have your own personal laptop/pad to conduct personal/non-business related activities. Same goes for phones-never add work emails to personal phones. Request a business phone for that. If they offer to pay a % to offset personal phone costs, respectfully decline.
It’s a good job I didn’t work in the US/Canada 😂. My work day consisted of getting there and leaving and I had flexible working hours. As long as I did what I needed to do no one batted an eyelid and if I needed to leave early any day I just caught the time up later in the week 🤷♂️🤣
As much as I feel like quitting my job, week after week, I never do because the pay is decent, and I live in a rural area where options are limited. If my company did this, it would be the last straw for me. I'd be walking out the door and putting applications in left and right. Why don't I do this now? I guess I haven't quite reached my breaking point for incompetent management yet...
I had a DB for a supervisor that was the only one that has access to RUclips. He uses airpod, while everyone were doing our job. When micromanaging and unfairness goes hand to hand, turnovers happened
Every job I have had I always assumed someone was watching everything I did on the computer. Whether it was surfing the internet or most clicks. My aim was to bore my watcher to tears.
I feel like tracking software creates a security issue by adding a portal of entry into the device and its network. Echo concerns that someone with authorized access would overstep, inappropriately using the microphone/cameras or spring boarding from the company's device to access more vulnerable devices in the home on the same internet connection.
As someone who has seen both ends of the spectrum of productivity for remote employees I think it can be helpful in cases of severe abuse of trust - we have had employees who would log in and never work - but the use of these resources should be reserved for those instances where abuse is suspected - also it can ONLY be used when using the employer’s own property.
Had a middle manager at one of my former grocery store jobs that would just sit and watch the cameras most of the day. The only time he didn’t spend staring at the cameras, he spent harassing the women that worked in the deli, and then getting mad when we gave him attitude back because our department head had told us not to tolerate his BS because he’s nothing but a nepo baby on a power trip (she said this right in front of him, btw. Nothing he could do about it because she had 20+ years with the company and he was, in fact, a nepo baby, and fresh out of high school at that). I quit after he flooded the deli and the bakery by letting his over inflated ego convince him he was a plumber and then proceeding to blame it on everyone else. Last I hear, that store is on the verge of closing.
I am a remote employee. work started to hand out Company laptops, which i'm sure tracks if your PC is idle or not. They said' Here, take this home" and i did to adhere to company policy.... It's still in its box, in the corner of my office. :D
I recently started with a new organization. At the first weekly team mtg, the CEO made a point of stressing that taking a break to walk outside for 15mins is actually a productivity booster (clears your head, etc). He doesn’t just talk the talk - he lets it be known when he takes a break to walk abs gas encouraged me & others tondo the same in moments when he knows that we’ve been heads-down focusing on a deadline. The bad bosses get all of the publicity - there are great bosses out there as well who deserve to be highlighted!
If you work in an office assume someone is seeing everything you do. I don’t know about the legality of tracking home computer use unless it’s their equipment. My niece loved that the company gave her a phone, iPad, and MacBook until she learned someone was turning on her cameras at odd times and examining all her docs and communications.
Extreme violation of privacy. imagine having someone behind you overlooking every single minute of the time spent in the office: would it be acceptable? I don’t think so…
I know that she is the same person, but I really buy into the fact that she is 2 different people, lol. I find myself cursing out the corporate Loe all the time and feeling sympathy for the employee Loe! Too funny. Thanks for entertaining me so well. I wish I had found you years ago when I was working a corporate job. Now I realize that I was totally taken advantage of and so many other employees were taken advantage of too. One time, I remember seeing a note on a computer of an employee who wasn't at his desk at 8 PM at night. The owner had written in big letters, "Where are YOU?" The employee had gone out to dinner with a family member to celebrate some occasion. It's pathetic!
Yeah part of the reason I left my last job was the micromanagement. It was a job that requires creative problem solving and they expected that while staring at a screen all day and not using pen and paper or staring out the window a couple minutes? Impossible. I used a mouse jiggler so I could go to the bathroom.
I am so glad i work for myself....i gave up corporate years ago....i can see from your take on corporate Haley i made the right choice....this is exactly the Shyte that gives people mental health issues and increases work place stress and anxiety ....no wonder people go "Postal".
I wonder what are the employee retention rate for companies in the US using micro-management strategies on their employees. In the UK, if employees are put under these working conditions, we would go off sick due to mental health, put a complaint to HR and then start looking for a new job if changes are not made. It costs the business more to continuously find new employees and the risk of causing long-term health issues due to the job, so employers have to make changes to management skills used otherwise see you in court.
I think there are programs or plug-ins or something like that that move your mouse making trackers think you are active. That's what companies like that deserve!
My companies done this and it is a bit dodgy, i have a rule of never browsing non work related sites anyway, but their tracking of activity has caused quite a few people to quit or refuse to work for us because of it. Stupid policy imo, shows a lack of trust.
I work in IT and absolutely do not understand the use case at all. Employees being productive is a LEADERSHIP issue, not a technical issue. My experience is that poorly led organizations feel the need to do this. You know the type. Tasks are never clear, or you don't get them for weeks while the doosh boss sits on them, no one tells anyone below them anything so that you end up twiddling your thumbs 5 hours a day wondering what your boss needs to have done...no wonder people just sit around and do nothing.
@CB-vt3mx Oh, I know the type. And like I said, I understand it. I do not agree with it. My understanding of it comes from that the people who want this/force this to be implemented are horrible managers.
You know I can perfectly imagine it from my last company. I just refer that to as "dirtbag company" and I cannot be more grateful to my current company. Orientation day, we got our devices and they told us directly, that we can use our laptops for personal things too as soon as it is not illegal. With these exact words. There are different... practices how companies treat their employees.
Been there, had that done to me. They treated us like naughty children then simply couldn't understand why we weren't stepping up to do more than required
Key logging is a real thing - most companies do it now. 100% extreme micromanagement, especially with so many "work from home" positions now. It *SHOULD* be illegal.
Years ago a place that my parents worked at one of the department managers installed "keystroke" software on several units to make sure employees were trying a set number of keys a day Was very illegal at that time as the computers were part of s network that you could imput customer accounts into Unfortunately the program he was using only could say "yes they pressed a key" but not say what was being pressed. So we got a bunch of those drinking bird toys and set them up in such a way that multiple would press keys on multiple units Once the CEO saw them he detonated on the guy for what he did, and got a huge laugh at our "solution"
Happening at my current job. Completely ridiculous. We are now being made to use a VOIP system that records all calls with our members. If we are not on the VOIP during the 8-5 working hours, we have to update our status to show why we are not. I am currently looking for employment elsewhere. Micromanaging at its best. This is on top of our productivity expectations with assessments, phone calls, etc.
This practice was routine when I worked in a call center before the pandemic, my expectation would be it continued in remote positions. They can be set to ping your manager if t he mouse is stable on your screen for the time they believe exceeds an input needs. Micromanage to the max, and yes they do monitor your break and restroom visits. You have to park your system for both and then change your status when you return to your station. It's logged. They also recorded all calls you connected to and all your screen time was recorded as will. It feels like a sweat shop and like a meat grinder. Volume over resolution.
Only if on company provided equipment or using company network provided a disclosure is provided of what exactly is tracked. A big money maker would be a mouse that has a button that can turn on automovement and clicks. Put a spreadsheet up and activate while looking for another job
@moongoddess1978 mouse jiggles can work, bit if the clicks are being tracked, need something better. Plus having it all in one piece looks better. And many businesses also look at what hardware is plugged in
@moongoddess1978 exactly what I described. A mouse that has the properties built in which can be activated by a hard button. This puts all inputs from the mouse itself, and the mouse can be used in office as well without raising suspicion.
So glad that this software is outright banned here in the UK. They once tried to install a software called Nippon(no points for guessing why they chose that name) until we pointed it out. Very quickly they released a followup communication saying that UK based employees would be exempt from the rollout. Guess the lawyers told them the same thing lol
I had a manager that called me in yelling "you are stealing company time. You haven't done work for an entire day, I'm going to fire yoy." So I reminded her I haven't done any work because she never gave me access to my remote apps. She literally told me at the start of the day don't clock out just wait there and I'll get this sorted out. I reminded her every hour and she said I'm on it. She apologize and I told her I'm canceling all my overtime I was going to do
The company I worked for had a policy in place for the use of computers etc. Every employee was expected to read and follow the policy. For those employees who were not required to use computers when carrying out their tasks a specific area with PCs was set aside for their personal use during lunch break eg. personal e-mails, accessing information on the Internet. The IT Dept did not monitor individuals but the system did alert them if anyone accessed sites that were not acceptable such as adult entertainment. We had one such employee who received a warning and lost his lunch time privileges. We also received a print out of calls made from our office telephones (not cell phones) and we had to indicate which calls were personal and pay for them. It was expected that employees would be truthful and, in general, they were. All in all a pretty good working environment.😊
I worked for a company that wanted to install that tracking software on my cell phone since they wanted me to use my personal cell for work. I refused and they said it was mandatory. I refused to put any software on my personal device. They tried to make me buy a second cell phone. Needless to say I worked for them less than 6 months. Thankfully the company I work for really can't use tracking software reliably. However, they do monitor your teams chats. I was talking with my boss one day and then got an email from him 10 minutes later discussing the topic of conversation. It was a spoofing test. My question was how did they know what we were talking about on a teams call?
I once worked in a ground floor office with about twenty different departments spread over a three story building. There was a planned fire drill whereby our supervisor informed us that she would not be acknowledging the procedure and we were to remain at our desks as, in the event of an emergency we, being on the ground floor, weren't at risk in the event of an actual fire !
@@radcallum On the contrary, it very likely makes the difference. Just as the employer is entitled to set up a camera in the office where you have no reasonable expectations of privacy, the employer is entitled to monitor what their IT equipment is doing. They should notify users, however.
My company has the ability to monitor our emails and probably all of the things we do on company devices, but I've never heard of them using this ability outside of legal prosecution or defence. Any other policy is ghastly and inhumane.
I am technically on board with this as long as we don't have to answer for every single minute. Technically speaking, if you can pay someone to actually spy on collegues... that money could be better invested in training and other possibly motivating things... My answer would btw always be "toilet? I dunno" ;D
Years ago our ID Director installed a tracking software on our agency Heads Executive Assistant computer with out informing anyone or permission. The Executive Assistant screamed when she saw her computer mouse arrow was moving across her screen by itself. As the HR team members who handled discharges you want to guess who was my next person I had an off boarding meeting with.
I worked for a large mental health company. They would do this to track employees who broke HIPPA violations by seeing how many times someone looked up a patient without probable cause.
I think if my company had to install tracking software, it would start getting complicated. Firstly, I'm always on RUclips. I find it easier to concentrate when I have background music. Also, I'm often research how to do things on the computer. Secondly, if they started saying "you stole x time from the company" I would respond with "put it on my tab, you have stolen a bunch of hours from me by not having a TOIL policy. Nevermind the rest of the stuff you agreed to in writing that you haven't delivered on." For any of you wondering, it's two more weeks and he is gone for good. Then we get to get rid of all his BS.
I don’t think it should be quite so micromanaged like that, but if they find NSFW content (pr0n) on a company device, I would understand why this takes place. Or if something’s not adding up with someone’s input and output and then they find out the employee was playing solitaire for several hours and not doing work. But micromanaging everyone isn’t the answer.
This has been going on for decades. Anyone in a corporate position, their IT Department has people tracking everyone. And those that log onto their personal account, they are tracking that as well. Proceed with caution.
I was rarely able to work remotely (I say "was" with glee, as I retire from the tax farm next Thursday), but when I did, I used personal rather than company equipment, so this wasn't an issue. Should I ever decide to take a part-time job, I will also not allow this to be an issue.
Tracking is a poor evaluator of productivity. Is the employee meeting their productivity goals? That's the marker. Maybe if they are not and you're trying to figure out why but for everyone? Nah. Feels Big Brotherish.
I'm fairly confident that could count as potential malware -- those tools log details in a server, along with other private information, and if that sever has a data breach...
It depends really on the company policy and the type of role you have. For example, some policies allow for minimal personal internet use on approved sites (such as booking a car rental, or using Pandora; I'm not talking about watching TikTok). Some job roles such as sales, marketing, HR, and supply chain will require frequent use of seemingly "random" websites to perform standard job tasks. And how many of us had to look things up online because the internal IT team can't fix that issue we are having in whatever Microsoft program?
if they own the assets (laptop) and you are using their VPN connectivity, it is always logged and tracked, for use at a later time. Cyber Security is always reviewing it to make sure that your computer is not being compromised, or causing a compromise at work. it is not about trusting the employee, it is about making sure bad actors are not using your computer to gain access to company resources.
I quit one of my remote jobs after they installed a tracking software. The micromanaging supervisor was already driving up the wall. There's no way I was going to deal with them after they installed that thing. Toodaloo!!!
I worked in a state office in IT, one project manager made it her business to know WHICH bathroom you frequented as well as when, I liked taking my turn in the various ladies’ bathrooms, it was very disconcerting to her.
We have tracking on our laptops and I’m sure on our company issued mobile phones. I currently work on the office 5 days a week, yet take the laptop home on the weekends for emergency work. The company is at least open about the tracking.
"Wait, you're not supposed to have access to security datra though, let me report this data breach to the legal team." Because yes, this is a data breach, and if you have one foot in the EU, California, or Quebec, you MUST report those breaches to autorities within a couple of days of discovery. Data breach isn't just hackers stealing data. It's employees having access (not accessing, just having access) to data they should not have access to. Reminder that lawyers are not judges. Their advices is better than most people, and they are bound to better standards, but they are not the ones one actually decides how a law works. Let a judge prove them wrong.
Tracking software will be monitored by useless employees who feel they are the policemen for the company. They believe they will get promoted by sinking others. It's very similar to accounting picking apart your expense report to "save the company money" so they can get a raise. This arrangement of departments with conflicting goals is corrosive.
Business owners will love this, employees will hate it. The sad truth is that when you've been a business owner long enough, you see what the employees don't. I have experienced employees stealing equipment, putting personal things on my accounts, and padding their wages. All the while claiming they aren't paid enough. It's not a happy situation, but the untruthful few, wreck it for everyone else. Bottom line: life's not fair.
This leads from poor hiring decisions. A happy employee respects the employer and doesn’t steal property or time. A micromanaged employee is not a happy employee. Micro managers do other things that discourage employee respect and loyalty.
Companies should monitor output, not process. I can understand why a company would question the time use of an employee who's already been proven ineffective (though even then, intrusive tracking, especially of personal devices, seems to me a step too far), but if the employee is meeting or exceeding expectations, then such second-guessing really has no legitimacy
I'm gonna start to use "I do believe that you believe that" now
Same
same
Me too
What about "I can't believe you believe that"?
@@Cohen.the.Worrier it depends if I expected that or not
Wow! How low will people in companies go? Did you never have to use the restroom? Look at an unusual bird that flies past? Answer a work-related phone call? Wow, just wow!
This low
ruclips.net/video/XdvOLjaY2-w/видео.htmlsi=7GB9jI5d83z9qo9y
They also are so low as to follow you to the bathroom & monitor that as well. This is a part of harassing the Employee too.😮😢
One place I worked refused bathroom breaks. It's Sterilite.
Just imagine the deepest hole that you, as an ordinary human, can dig. An ordinary corporate (middle) manager will just dig deeper.
The lowest I heard was a company had a fire drill. When everyone was in the parking lot, they were told that only those whose names were read would be allowed back in. The rest were fired. Ah, the 90s!
If an employee is inefficient at home they are going to be inefficient in the office too. It is the employee mentality and work ethic that is key not their actual location. Track employees' performance by their targets and deadlines, not their clicks or mouse idle time.
That's it exactly. If they are missing deadlines and milestones consistently, then the monitoring metrics might be helpful to pinpoint a performance issue. Please note, might be... there's some other obvious issues, biggest coming to mind being assigned more tasks and workload than is capable to be handled within effort hours. Which would be a management failure.
Also these softwares dont encourage better work
They encourage slower work. Why finish my work before lunch if Im gonna be punished for it? Instead Im taping my mouse to my roomba and playing minesweeper on my laptop
@@Moraca101And the company will know that. Not about the Rhoomba and playing Minesweeper on a laptop, but the spyware can recognize your just randomly clicking your mouse and not actually getting anything done.
The inefficient part is only partly true. For me, depending on the role (and I've had a million of them), I am sometimes more efficient in the office or at home but not both. So, to some degree, time management and other measures of efficiency can vary by location. However, I agree that overall if an employee isn't very good at work they won't suddenly do better because they changed locations. So I hear the sentiment behind your message and I agree that monitoring clicks don't mean much. So much of what I do takes place away from the computer. I have to do a lot of thinking and brainstorming and sometimes I get my best work ideas in the shower or on a walk. That is still productive time as a lot of my value to the team is my ability to come up with creative solutions. And sometimes I have to work through (in my head) the logistics of implementation. Sure, sometimes I brainstorm on a Google Doc, but so much of it occurs in conversations with myself in my head. Lol. Surely they can't be punishing me for not clicking my mouse for 30 mins if I'm using that time to save the company $100,000 by improving an inefficient workflow? The irony...
Monitoring of work-at-home employees has to be different, and based on KPIs - number of invoices processed, etc - rather than the micro-management that happens when you are co-located.
I've not encountered tracking software, but I have encountered "shoulder surfers" in an office before. Someone took issue with the fact that I was streaming classical music while I was working, and the tab was visible for a minute. That person was not in my department, and I requested to be moved away from the kitchen (open floor plan) to avoid these shoulder surfers. Another person outside of my department complained that my co-worker was "browsing websites" - come to find out they were looking up documentation for the task they were doing.
man, i remember the vp of my old workplace would come up to us and shake our chairs saying “good morning!” each time while staring directly at our screen as if he knew what we were working on.
needless to say i don’t work there anymore
I worked for a company (student loan processor) and they required that you swipe your badge at every door including bathrooms, kitchen, stairs, elevator, meeting rooms, etc. Every week my manager would tell me how many minutes I spent in the bathroom. They also had installed tracking software and I would have to justify every website I visited during my work day. I hated this job and the managers were more interested in berating and abusing their employees over this nonsense than getting any real work done.
It’s the only way they can justify their own existence
Unbelievable!!!!!
Went through this at a debt collections agency AND a customer service call center, as well.
At one place of employment they wanted us to sign in on every computer in our area before using it…even if it was to scan one item. So they could track who made a mistake. We didn’t comply. It just wasn’t efficient for us to continuously sign in then sign out. And we wanted to protect each other so we used the closest computer after each of us had signed into one. No push back happened.
How quickly did you quit?
If companies KNEW how much $$$ was being lost due to "productivity" from managers/supervisors and C-level staff based on their yearly compensation, they'd be able to hire more staff.
But they ain't ready to talk about that.....
The decision makers are in that management to C Suite band. Theirs is the approved waste. We lowly beggars are not to misplace a penny because all the slack in the budget is allocated elsewhere.
"tracking monitors help us better understand our remote employees"
instead of, you know, talking with them, listening ...
Remote employees. Difficult to talk and listen...
I expect it's fairly common that companies do that if you're using equipment that they provide (not that i agree with it). But if they're trying to do that to your personal computers, that's crossing a line imo.
If on a personal pc then in Europe it’s illegal
I wouldn't trust it either way. If you have personal information such as a resume, banking information, or credit card information on your work computer, and they're tracking you (which is remote access), they can confiscate all that data that's personal, and who knows what some lowly, underpaid IT guy would do with it.
@@saraeva my company has us sign a disclosure agreement that we understand that websites etc are monitored - I personally have no personal information on my work computer and I power it off and lock it in a closet at night - also my camera blocks everything unless I actually turn it on.
IIRC it is illegal on a corporate PC too as long as the user is not being informed that his action will be tracked and recorded.
@@saraeva
AFAIK the most data theft is not being made by "low level" workers or IT guys but by (middle) management.
Sometimes I need to know how much I would weigh on Neptune. And not knowing will make me less productive than if I just took the 3 minutes to find out.
I would say toodaloo to the company fairly quickly.
Why? it will just be the same on your next job.
I like the mug that seems to say ",,,unt"
@@Loosehead Not to mention it's next to the handle.
@@01chippe no you dont go work somewhere the have tracking spy software. you investigate this when you apply for the job.
@@01chippe That's right. Every job is the same. Has no meaning. Has no value. You do it just for the money. Management and HR only cares about numbers. Welcome to capitalism: the best we have right now.
A study in the Harvard Business Review found that employees who were being monitored/ tracked were more likely to break rules, like cheating, stealing, and working slowly on purpose. This happened because they felt less in control and less responsible for their actions.
Thanks for the reference. If someone else needs it, it's Monitoring Employees Makes Them More Likely to Break Rules (June 2022)
Not her starting out saying 'stealing company time' so aggressive 😂😂
And you’re wasting a huge amount of company time by having this meeting.
Research has shown that remote workers take fewer breaks than office workers. Remember that it's normal and healthy to step away from your desk and to take breaks. In person, you'd be socializing with coworkers. Nobody has 8 continuous hours worth of work to do everyday.
Thank you. In my work life, talking to fellow employees, getting coffee, treviewing vacations, all sorts of nonwork stuff filled part of the day. And management was worse.
See also, companies blocking websites they deem "bad". I've only ever been blocked from websites that absolutely would've been very helpful for my job. Never blocked from websites I'm just killing time on
In my company we were banned from using youTube--even though that was where all our training was. I had to go home to use youtube to get the training I needed. That *was* nice, but stupid
I don't remember where this was, but one of our clients hired a new person to assist with marketing the company. To do this, she needed access to social media. They blocked everyone (including her) from being able to access social media, then wondered why she wasn't able to do her job. She repeatedly told them they needed to at least make an exception for her to access social media but they wouldn't. The decision maker was an old geezer who just didn't get the internet. This was maybe 2 years ago, so there's no excuse for that. Don't recall if he managed the marketing department or another department in corporate. I felt so badly for her. She wound up leaving after maybe 6 months of fruitlessly trying to drag them into the 21st century.
On the other hand, I once worked for a company that ran an Unreal Tournament server at lunchtime, to keep people on-site. Perversely, staff turnover was the highest I have ever seen.
Once had a manager that wanted key-click counter added. As IT, we pushed it down the priority list so it naver happened. My last manager said, if the work is getting done, why should i care if they load the washing machine.
i would have a mouse with a motor on top clicking 456 times a minute day and night! and looking on the interwebs i would do on a personal device.. these trackers are so easy to manipulate. Almost as bad as masterlock.
Every metric you force on employees usually skew the resulting work.
Heisenberg. Every measurement alters the result.
@@Loosehead This specific one actually has a name - Goodhart's Law
There's a book titled "The tyranny of metrics". Interesting read.
I am pretty sure that installing tracking software is illegal at least when it's hardware that you use at home. Imagine they turn on the webcam or microphone. That's insane.
At least in germany it's illegal to use it without the permission of the employee and even then there is a case by case basis on what the software monitors and most things are against privacy laws.
Permission to do this is usually written to the paperwork you sign when you get your equipment. ALWAYS read the fine print.
@@LynBelzerTonnessen giving permission for illegal things doesn't make them legal though.
@@Soapy-chan No, it is not illegal to monitor their own hardware. The employee putting the hardware in an area that compromises confidentiality is not the company's problem. Unless that state has particular laws for these situations, it is not illegal.
@@GrandMoffVixen "putting the hardware in an area that compromises confidentiality"
You realize that your whole house is confidential, right?
@@GrandMoffVixen and also I just looked it up, in germany, a country where workers have rights, it is illegal to use any software to monitor the usage of the hardware, except only when there is concrete and justified suspicion that the employee uses it for private stuff but even then not all methods to monitor are legal, e.g. keyloggers.
I have worked for some toxic employers before, and every single one of them did things just like this. I love the videos that you make that call this behavior out... And I just love your "I do believe that you believe that" statement at the end!!
Love that, "I do believe that you believe that!"
Companies have now forgotten the difference between hiring you for your time and hiring you for your output. The demonization of 'professionalism' in favor of 'passion' or whatever employers are trying to replace compensation with.
If they hire you for your time, get work done in that time. If they hire you for your output, then you have to work aiming for the output. If they hire you for your output and time, the targets for both have to be clear.
Failure or inability to manage is always masked with micromanagement.
If it’s their equipment, then they can monitor it as they wish. Always have your own personal laptop/pad to conduct personal/non-business related activities. Same goes for phones-never add work emails to personal phones. Request a business phone for that. If they offer to pay a % to offset personal phone costs, respectfully decline.
Of course they have no problem stealing your time.
Is the boss doing the tracking being tracked? 😂
Noooope. Of course not.
By his boss. And so on up. Eventually you reach a level where they just don't care.
I run an excel worksheet in the background calculating the value of Pi.
@bngr_bngr ~ Ooh, what an *excellent* idea!!!
It’s a good job I didn’t work in the US/Canada 😂. My work day consisted of getting there and leaving and I had flexible working hours. As long as I did what I needed to do no one batted an eyelid and if I needed to leave early any day I just caught the time up later in the week 🤷♂️🤣
As much as I feel like quitting my job, week after week, I never do because the pay is decent, and I live in a rural area where options are limited. If my company did this, it would be the last straw for me. I'd be walking out the door and putting applications in left and right. Why don't I do this now? I guess I haven't quite reached my breaking point for incompetent management yet...
I had a DB for a supervisor that was the only one that has access to RUclips. He uses airpod, while everyone were doing our job. When micromanaging and unfairness goes hand to hand, turnovers happened
Every job I have had I always assumed someone was watching everything I did on the computer. Whether it was surfing the internet or most clicks. My aim was to bore my watcher to tears.
I feel like tracking software creates a security issue by adding a portal of entry into the device and its network. Echo concerns that someone with authorized access would overstep, inappropriately using the microphone/cameras or spring boarding from the company's device to access more vulnerable devices in the home on the same internet connection.
I don't know about legality... but if I was working for this company, I'd use that computer during off-hours to look for another job.
As someone who has seen both ends of the spectrum of productivity for remote employees I think it can be helpful in cases of severe abuse of trust - we have had employees who would log in and never work - but the use of these resources should be reserved for those instances where abuse is suspected - also it can ONLY be used when using the employer’s own property.
My thoughts on this are: "put in 2-week notice and start browsing hiring sites. Let's see what they think when they monitor me now."
Had a middle manager at one of my former grocery store jobs that would just sit and watch the cameras most of the day. The only time he didn’t spend staring at the cameras, he spent harassing the women that worked in the deli, and then getting mad when we gave him attitude back because our department head had told us not to tolerate his BS because he’s nothing but a nepo baby on a power trip (she said this right in front of him, btw. Nothing he could do about it because she had 20+ years with the company and he was, in fact, a nepo baby, and fresh out of high school at that). I quit after he flooded the deli and the bakery by letting his over inflated ego convince him he was a plumber and then proceeding to blame it on everyone else. Last I hear, that store is on the verge of closing.
I am a remote employee. work started to hand out Company laptops, which i'm sure tracks if your PC is idle or not. They said' Here, take this home" and i did to adhere to company policy.... It's still in its box, in the corner of my office. :D
Ours uses our Microsoft Teams -
I recently started with a new organization. At the first weekly team mtg, the CEO made a point of stressing that taking a break to walk outside for 15mins is actually a productivity booster (clears your head, etc). He doesn’t just talk the talk - he lets it be known when he takes a break to walk abs gas encouraged me & others tondo the same in moments when he knows that we’ve been heads-down focusing on a deadline.
The bad bosses get all of the publicity - there are great bosses out there as well who deserve to be highlighted!
If you work in an office assume someone is seeing everything you do. I don’t know about the legality of tracking home computer use unless it’s their equipment. My niece loved that the company gave her a phone, iPad, and MacBook until she learned someone was turning on her cameras at odd times and examining all her docs and communications.
Extreme violation of privacy. imagine having someone behind you overlooking every single minute of the time spent in the office: would it be acceptable? I don’t think so…
I know that she is the same person, but I really buy into the fact that she is 2 different people, lol. I find myself cursing out the corporate Loe all the time and feeling sympathy for the employee Loe! Too funny. Thanks for entertaining me so well. I wish I had found you years ago when I was working a corporate job. Now I realize that I was totally taken advantage of and so many other employees were taken advantage of too. One time, I remember seeing a note on a computer of an employee who wasn't at his desk at 8 PM at night. The owner had written in big letters, "Where are YOU?" The employee had gone out to dinner with a family member to celebrate some occasion. It's pathetic!
Yeah part of the reason I left my last job was the micromanagement. It was a job that requires creative problem solving and they expected that while staring at a screen all day and not using pen and paper or staring out the window a couple minutes? Impossible. I used a mouse jiggler so I could go to the bathroom.
There's software that can identity mouse jigglers.
@@mazmellem2773No doubt. There were no rules against mouse jigglers there so it worked at the time.
I am so glad i work for myself....i gave up corporate years ago....i can see from your take on corporate Haley i made the right choice....this is exactly the Shyte that gives people mental health issues and increases work place stress and anxiety ....no wonder people go "Postal".
I'm a remote employee - Sales Engineer - And my work also has these on our devices. I now utilize the work laptop as little as possible.
I think you are right in the mainstream on this. Well done!
I wonder what are the employee retention rate for companies in the US using micro-management strategies on their employees. In the UK, if employees are put under these working conditions, we would go off sick due to mental health, put a complaint to HR and then start looking for a new job if changes are not made. It costs the business more to continuously find new employees and the risk of causing long-term health issues due to the job, so employers have to make changes to management skills used otherwise see you in court.
I think there are programs or plug-ins or something like that that move your mouse making trackers think you are active. That's what companies like that deserve!
I believe that the company has to inform their employees that they are tracking their work on their computers beforehand
My companies done this and it is a bit dodgy, i have a rule of never browsing non work related sites anyway, but their tracking of activity has caused quite a few people to quit or refuse to work for us because of it. Stupid policy imo, shows a lack of trust.
Each day I more thankful I'm at the finishing end of my work life. There is no trust, in either direction.
I work in IT. While I understand the use case, I just feel like a creep by installing it and having to monitor/manage it. I hate it so much.
I work in IT and absolutely do not understand the use case at all. Employees being productive is a LEADERSHIP issue, not a technical issue. My experience is that poorly led organizations feel the need to do this. You know the type. Tasks are never clear, or you don't get them for weeks while the doosh boss sits on them, no one tells anyone below them anything so that you end up twiddling your thumbs 5 hours a day wondering what your boss needs to have done...no wonder people just sit around and do nothing.
@CB-vt3mx Oh, I know the type. And like I said, I understand it. I do not agree with it. My understanding of it comes from that the people who want this/force this to be implemented are horrible managers.
You know I can perfectly imagine it from my last company. I just refer that to as "dirtbag company" and I cannot be more grateful to my current company. Orientation day, we got our devices and they told us directly, that we can use our laptops for personal things too as soon as it is not illegal. With these exact words. There are different... practices how companies treat their employees.
Been there, had that done to me. They treated us like naughty children then simply couldn't understand why we weren't stepping up to do more than required
Key logging is a real thing - most companies do it now. 100% extreme micromanagement, especially with so many "work from home" positions now. It *SHOULD* be illegal.
Years ago a place that my parents worked at one of the department managers installed "keystroke" software on several units to make sure employees were trying a set number of keys a day
Was very illegal at that time as the computers were part of s network that you could imput customer accounts into
Unfortunately the program he was using only could say "yes they pressed a key" but not say what was being pressed.
So we got a bunch of those drinking bird toys and set them up in such a way that multiple would press keys on multiple units
Once the CEO saw them he detonated on the guy for what he did, and got a huge laugh at our "solution"
That's pretty funny.
Happening at my current job. Completely ridiculous. We are now being made to use a VOIP system that records all calls with our members. If we are not on the VOIP during the 8-5 working hours, we have to update our status to show why we are not. I am currently looking for employment elsewhere. Micromanaging at its best. This is on top of our productivity expectations with assessments, phone calls, etc.
This practice was routine when I worked in a call center before the pandemic, my expectation would be it continued in remote positions.
They can be set to ping your manager if t he mouse is stable on your screen for the time they believe exceeds an input needs.
Micromanage to the max, and yes they do monitor your break and restroom visits. You have to park your system for both and then change your status when you return to your station. It's logged.
They also recorded all calls you connected to and all your screen time was recorded as will.
It feels like a sweat shop and like a meat grinder.
Volume over resolution.
Only if on company provided equipment or using company network provided a disclosure is provided of what exactly is tracked.
A big money maker would be a mouse that has a button that can turn on automovement and clicks. Put a spreadsheet up and activate while looking for another job
You can get a mouse jiggler.
@moongoddess1978 mouse jiggles can work, bit if the clicks are being tracked, need something better. Plus having it all in one piece looks better. And many businesses also look at what hardware is plugged in
@@ClintUdyWhat better solution do you suggest?
@moongoddess1978 exactly what I described. A mouse that has the properties built in which can be activated by a hard button. This puts all inputs from the mouse itself, and the mouse can be used in office as well without raising suspicion.
So glad that this software is outright banned here in the UK. They once tried to install a software called Nippon(no points for guessing why they chose that name) until we pointed it out. Very quickly they released a followup communication saying that UK based employees would be exempt from the rollout. Guess the lawyers told them the same thing lol
I go with "Pay me until you dont want to pay me anymore" "Lets not discuss this again"
I had a manager that called me in yelling "you are stealing company time. You haven't done work for an entire day, I'm going to fire yoy." So I reminded her I haven't done any work because she never gave me access to my remote apps. She literally told me at the start of the day don't clock out just wait there and I'll get this sorted out. I reminded her every hour and she said I'm on it. She apologize and I told her I'm canceling all my overtime I was going to do
The company I worked for had a policy in place for the use of computers etc. Every employee was expected to read and follow the policy. For those employees who were not required to use computers when carrying out their tasks a specific area with PCs was set aside for their personal use during lunch break eg. personal e-mails, accessing information on the Internet. The IT Dept did not monitor individuals but the system did alert them if anyone accessed sites that were not acceptable such as adult entertainment. We had one such employee who received a warning and lost his lunch time privileges. We also received a print out of calls made from our office telephones (not cell phones) and we had to indicate which calls were personal and pay for them. It was expected that employees would be truthful and, in general, they were. All in all a pretty good working environment.😊
I worked for a company that wanted to install that tracking software on my cell phone since they wanted me to use my personal cell for work. I refused and they said it was mandatory. I refused to put any software on my personal device. They tried to make me buy a second cell phone. Needless to say I worked for them less than 6 months. Thankfully the company I work for really can't use tracking software reliably. However, they do monitor your teams chats. I was talking with my boss one day and then got an email from him 10 minutes later discussing the topic of conversation. It was a spoofing test. My question was how did they know what we were talking about on a teams call?
There's probably a recording / transcription feature activated on the backend.
I once worked in a ground floor office with about twenty different departments spread over a three story building. There was a planned fire drill whereby our supervisor informed us that she would not be acknowledging the procedure and we were to remain at our desks as, in the event of an emergency we, being on the ground floor, weren't at risk in the event of an actual fire !
Those people should switch places. Toodaloo--er should be the boss.
It is invasion of privacy what it is. If anyone else does it, makes it a criminal offense then a company sure as hell is not above the law.
If it's the company's equipment, including a virtual desktop via your physical device, you have no expectation of privacy.
@jdotoz Still does not make it legal, though, right?
@@radcallum On the contrary, it very likely makes the difference. Just as the employer is entitled to set up a camera in the office where you have no reasonable expectations of privacy, the employer is entitled to monitor what their IT equipment is doing. They should notify users, however.
My company has the ability to monitor our emails and probably all of the things we do on company devices, but I've never heard of them using this ability outside of legal prosecution or defence. Any other policy is ghastly and inhumane.
Corporations literally just putting themsleves in holes every time.
I am technically on board with this as long as we don't have to answer for every single minute.
Technically speaking, if you can pay someone to actually spy on collegues... that money could be better invested in training and other possibly motivating things...
My answer would btw always be "toilet? I dunno" ;D
I'm loving the use of the suit jacket to differentiate the characters.
All I hear from working in USA is absurd to me...
"Helps us know our remote workers better" or you could just talk to them.
Years ago our ID Director installed a tracking software on our agency Heads Executive Assistant computer with out informing anyone or permission.
The Executive Assistant screamed when she saw her computer mouse arrow was moving across her screen by itself.
As the HR team members who handled discharges you want to guess who was my next person I had an off boarding meeting with.
I worked for a large mental health company. They would do this to track employees who broke HIPPA violations by seeing how many times someone looked up a patient without probable cause.
I think if my company had to install tracking software, it would start getting complicated.
Firstly, I'm always on RUclips. I find it easier to concentrate when I have background music. Also, I'm often research how to do things on the computer.
Secondly, if they started saying "you stole x time from the company" I would respond with "put it on my tab, you have stolen a bunch of hours from me by not having a TOIL policy. Nevermind the rest of the stuff you agreed to in writing that you haven't delivered on."
For any of you wondering, it's two more weeks and he is gone for good. Then we get to get rid of all his BS.
Powershell script to press F12 every 8-59 seconds. Boom! Corporate never realizes you're inactive.
I don’t think it should be quite so micromanaged like that, but if they find NSFW content (pr0n) on a company device, I would understand why this takes place. Or if something’s not adding up with someone’s input and output and then they find out the employee was playing solitaire for several hours and not doing work. But micromanaging everyone isn’t the answer.
This has been going on for decades. Anyone in a corporate position, their IT Department has people tracking everyone.
And those that log onto their personal account, they are tracking that as well.
Proceed with caution.
... and THEN they give you a hard time about clocking out at 5 PM!
I was rarely able to work remotely (I say "was" with glee, as I retire from the tax farm next Thursday), but when I did, I used personal rather than company equipment, so this wasn't an issue. Should I ever decide to take a part-time job, I will also not allow this to be an issue.
Tracking is a poor evaluator of productivity. Is the employee meeting their productivity goals? That's the marker. Maybe if they are not and you're trying to figure out why but for everyone? Nah. Feels Big Brotherish.
Not Toodaloo is they’re still monitoring you…
Every one of your videos gives me a new incentive to never work a corporate job!
I'm fairly confident that could count as potential malware -- those tools log details in a server, along with other private information, and if that sever has a data breach...
Grateful to live in Germany where this is clearly illegal
It depends really on the company policy and the type of role you have. For example, some policies allow for minimal personal internet use on approved sites (such as booking a car rental, or using Pandora; I'm not talking about watching TikTok). Some job roles such as sales, marketing, HR, and supply chain will require frequent use of seemingly "random" websites to perform standard job tasks. And how many of us had to look things up online because the internal IT team can't fix that issue we are having in whatever Microsoft program?
😂you are hilarious and so honest. ❤
if they own the assets (laptop) and you are using their VPN connectivity, it is always logged and tracked, for use at a later time. Cyber Security is always reviewing it to make sure that your computer is not being compromised, or causing a compromise at work.
it is not about trusting the employee, it is about making sure bad actors are not using your computer to gain access to company resources.
My favorite part is when you grab that coffee mug
I quit one of my remote jobs after they installed a tracking software. The micromanaging supervisor was already driving up the wall. There's no way I was going to deal with them after they installed that thing. Toodaloo!!!
I worked in a state office in IT, one project manager made it her business to know WHICH bathroom you frequented as well as when, I liked taking my turn in the various ladies’ bathrooms, it was very disconcerting to her.
We have tracking on our laptops and I’m sure on our company issued mobile phones. I currently work on the office 5 days a week, yet take the laptop home on the weekends for emergency work. The company is at least open about the tracking.
"Wait, you're not supposed to have access to security datra though, let me report this data breach to the legal team."
Because yes, this is a data breach, and if you have one foot in the EU, California, or Quebec, you MUST report those breaches to autorities within a couple of days of discovery. Data breach isn't just hackers stealing data. It's employees having access (not accessing, just having access) to data they should not have access to.
Reminder that lawyers are not judges. Their advices is better than most people, and they are bound to better standards, but they are not the ones one actually decides how a law works. Let a judge prove them wrong.
This is exactly why I use my personal computer for work with my personal vpn account, even though I know it's at my own expense.
Yeah, this stuff bothers me for several reasons, the biggest being that it gives the vibe of not trusting employees
Tracking software will be monitored by useless employees who feel they are the policemen for the company. They believe they will get promoted by sinking others. It's very similar to accounting picking apart your expense report to "save the company money" so they can get a raise. This arrangement of departments with conflicting goals is corrosive.
Business owners will love this, employees will hate it. The sad truth is that when you've been a business owner long enough, you see what the employees don't. I have experienced employees stealing equipment, putting personal things on my accounts, and padding their wages. All the while claiming they aren't paid enough. It's not a happy situation, but the untruthful few, wreck it for everyone else. Bottom line: life's not fair.
This leads from poor hiring decisions. A happy employee respects the employer and doesn’t steal property or time. A micromanaged employee is not a happy employee. Micro managers do other things that discourage employee respect and loyalty.
I just sent this to my friend who works remotely whose boss calls her if her Teams bubble changes from green to yellow when she’s not in a meeting.
Companies should monitor output, not process. I can understand why a company would question the time use of an employee who's already been proven ineffective (though even then, intrusive tracking, especially of personal devices, seems to me a step too far), but if the employee is meeting or exceeding expectations, then such second-guessing really has no legitimacy
i would just quit or at the very least start looking hard core
It's like supermarkets that want you to use self service checkouts then don't trust you so want to search your bags for unpaid items.
That's why you get yourself a virtual machine that operates autonomously from your main system. If they can't track anything, then they are Sol.
This kind of thing is why people rubber banded vibrators to their mouse when they wanted a break.