Picking A Fight With Lightfast Ratings And Giveaway Extension
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- Опубликовано: 20 янв 2023
- first of all I have to apologise from the bottom of my heart for the lack of content and presence throughout Christmas and the New Year. Unfortunately, like so many of you guys, I was hit with this flu thing going around and I was really sick with it. So I apologise more than words can describe.
I also apologise if this video is a bit bumpy, I couldn't believe that I had forgot how to upload a video to RUclips and found that I forgot how to edit using Final Cut because I had stopped using them for a while. If I am missing anything please let me know, I promise you guys I will be back to normal soon. Also I know this video is a bit long and may be a bit boring, but I felt it needed to be said in order to help young artists, student artists, crafters, adult colouring book artists etc navigate the mind field that is lightfastness. Show them that just because a set of colored pencils are not highly lightfast does not mean they are useless.
Because I have not been about for such a long time I have decided to extend announcing the winner of the Derwent 72 Wooden Box Set of Studio Colored Pencils until the 25th of Jan 2023. This gives you a few extra days to head over to the giveaway video and follow the rules if you would like the chance of winning this beautiful set of colored pencils. Follow the link below.
Derwent Studio 72 Set Wooden Box Set - bit.ly/3B4LVtC
I know the title of this video is a bit dramatic, it is a bit tongue and cheek, however, I have received so many messages, emails, comments etc from young artists, student artists, crafters, adult colouring book artists etc, expressing their concern and confusion around lightfast ratings and the importance to them personally.
So many artists from all the groups mentioned above, are under the impression that in order to produce beautiful art, they must use lightfast products and not only lightfast products but the highest quality lightfast products.
In this video I hope to show anyone who is interested that highly lightfast art materials absolutely have their place in creating art, but lightfast products are not the only products you can use. There are a few other options available and in this video we also talk about why so many artists are confused by lightfastness.
In particular we will be talking about the Blue Wool System, the ASTM ( American Society of Testing and Materials ) and we will also be talking about some of the in house testing that art companies use to lightfast test their products. It is these very systems that can cause confusion for artists as well as some other factors surrounding said lightfast standards.
I will add my written review to The Art Gear Guide in the next day or so, I normally upload them both at the same time, however due to my lack of content I wanted to get this video up as soon as possible. If you have any questions about the content of this video please by all means ask in the comment section below and I will do my very best to answer. I also know that I have not replied to a lot of questions asked on various videos here on The Art Gear Guide RUclips Channel over the past few months. I promise I will endeavour to get on top of this and start answering questions.
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I'm not a professional Artist that is selling their work, so I'm not concerned about LF, but thank you for the information! However, I am concerned about quality art materials vs. price point, that's why I really appreciate honest & thorough reviews, like your presentations!
Thank You once again for your work. Happy New year, best wishes for you & your family Harry!
Hi Harry, so glad you are feeling better! Here is my unsolicited opinion 😆
Blue wool testing is a scientific self test that any company can administer. You buy the blue wool strips and expose it with your material swatch. Each number is going to fade in relation to the # on the strip with each number doubling in time. So a #2 is twice as lightfast as a #1 and so on and so forth. This gives a standard calibration whether you are testing in Florida or Canada. These tests put the power in anyone's hands.
Astm is a company using a proprietary method if testing. Companies must pay to have that done but since it us 3rd party it is seen as more trustworthy. Because of price it's only used for expensive materials. Blue wool has more if a range as its used to test everything from textiles to house paint to art materials.
In house ratings are odd and suspect since blue wool is available but most budget companies just copy and paste info from the factory making their stuff. I think most people selling work for big bucks are using the top quality product.
Another note is the lightfast ratings are done in masstone so if you thin or blend out any of these pigments (with water or OMS or use a light application of color) the lightfastness is reduced so it's not totally the products fault if it fades. It comes down to application as well.
I think if you want to sell originals done with non lightfast media (copics fir instance) it's fine if you let the buyer know. Look, people spend plenty on non lightfast mass produced art at tj maxx and they don't plan to keep it forever. Our work is not as precious as we think it is sometimes. Have fun, make art.
I am SO glad you've put this out there. The cost of LF materials could prevent new artists from using new mediums. There are ways around it and the bottom line is to enjoy the experience. This is great information. I hope you are feeling better! This winter has been a struggle!
No need to apologize, ever. Yes, a few of us in my family had RSV, a cold like virus, that cause great respiratory distress. I thought it was a bad cold at first, but I really couldn’t breathe,I feel like I’m still not over it. We’re just grateful to have a video from you.
Thanks! Just a very small amount to go towards the time and effort you put in to provide your viewers with good information on your channel. Although I don’t have a need for highly lightfast art materials, I still appreciate the clarification and understanding this video provides. It’s great that you are finally well . Wishing you and your family the best New Year ever.
Really glad to see you’re back and you’ve nothing to apologise for. I’m watching this today as the winter blues have set in and your videos always cheer me up. Thanks Harry.
Pencils are awesome btw; I have that set. If people find they have issues with them, like I did in the beginning, to stay on point, try sanded paper; doesn't have to be pastel mat, that is what I use bc that is what I prefer, but there are more options. These pencils work miracles when paper has a bit of tooth on it. I love that set for landscape and wildlife. These pencils have a bit of a learning curve to them if you are new with them; be patient; more often then not issue lies with paper not product.
Hullo Harry, I have been embarrassed by customers coming back with a faded picture! I was less embarrassed after I found out they removed the picture from my custom frame with UV glass! I used professional quality watercolor paints. ANY color will fade if not displayed correctly! No Artwork should ever be stored or hung in sunlight! Any light fast product is of a higher quality in most cases and will give the artist a reasonable assurance of light fastness. Now some might say paints are different than pencils but they use the same quality of pigments and you should use the best quality you can afford for your artworks. Some pigments are simply better than others and will last longer if you use those pigments in your artworks!
i commend your efforts to explain this hugely intricate subject, I feel you did a good job. I hope your feeling better I was sick over Christmas and I am still not 100% but so much better! Take care and take your time getting back up to speed.
Hullo, Harry! I am a recent new sub. I came to your channel from Lindsay Weirich. She gave you a marvelous compliment in one of her vids. I have come to rely on Lindsay's opinions and advice about any art supply purchase I am considering. She is top-notch IMO. Having said that, I very much enjoy your channel and your dedication to giving us quality content. I thank you very much for addressing this question that so often comes up as an artist considering a new purchase. Light fast ratings seem so subjective to me and I am hugely appreciative to you for clarifying things. I am an oil painter and I am new to using coloured pencils. It is so bloody confusing! I am happy to hear that you are on the mend. You mustn't apologize for being away for a bit. I have found this community to be very kind and considerate 😊 We all just want you to be alright! Take good care, Harry. I am looking forward to your next offering. Love and Bless xo
Thank you so much for this video. It really is so confusing.
About 3 years ago, I bought Prisma color pencils. They seemed to be a favorite among colored pencil artists. I made my artwork on acid-free mixed media books. No daylight, or any light at all, touched those books for three years. The other day, I was looking through the books and was disappointed to find the colors faded. I only colored on one side of the page. So I could see the color had not rubbed off. Also, I only used the colored pencils on the page. I did not use graphite or anything else to draw the shapes. All the shading was done with the colored pencils. Also, I didn't use solvents or blenders. The only things that touched the page were my hands, the colored pencils and perhaps the cuffs of the sleeves of the clothing I was wearing. The book was archival.
After watching your video, I now understand why it happened. Still 3 years is a very short time. I don't know exactly what happened. The books were not sealed, so perhaps microscopic organisms ate the pencils. Most definitely, after I was done, no light touched the pages sunlight or otherwise.
Harry it seems almost everyone was really sick this Christmas and New Years. I was also completely knackered that I could barely breathe this New Years.
please never feel like you should apologize for being sick, you should always take enough time for rest and recovery! ❤
Interesting talk about lighfastness. I agree that if your art is just done for your personal enjoyment, lightfastness shouldn't be such a huge issue. I do think, personally, that a certain degree of lightfastness is needed. There is nothing like watching a work in progress, sitting on your desk (out of direct sunlight) slowly fade away over the span of 7 months. (I was using *super cheap* markers.. lesson learned lol) But in general if I'm not doing a project for someone else, having the most lightfast supplies is not as important.
Thanks for sharing and I hope you feel better.
You always provide such in depth info...love your channel !
Thank you so much for this fenomenal video explanation about LF !
Thank you so much for all of your videos! ♡ I LOVE ALL THE REVIEWS
No need to apologize! I hope you're feeling better.
Thanks for explaining this topic!
Glad you are feeling better. So appreciate your LF info.
Thank you. Hope you feel better. Take care 😊
Thank you for all you do to share information and inspire! Best wishes to you and your family!
There are other cases where lightfastness is important, other than selling art. For example, if I spend 3 days on a drawing that I want to give away to friends or family, so they can put it up on the wall... I would not want the colors to fade after a few months. That's what happens to certain colors of non-lightfast pencils: THEY FADE VERY FAST.
Yeah that is another good example of using lightfastness, a commission without the exchange of money, just for love and friendship. But even at that I think the point I was trying to make was, we don't know if using certain colors from any of these lightfast scales, do exactly what they say on the tin.
A three star pencil from an in house brand, is sold as highly lightfast, it is supposed to be the same as an LF1 pencil from the ASTM system or an 8 or 7 from the Blue Wool scale, but we don't know exactly how long the colors will last.
According to the Blue Wool and ASTM companies, pigments rated LF3, LF2 and LF1 or Blue Wool 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 could potentially last from 15 years all the way to 100 plus years, whatever the plus means. Does plus mean an extra 10 years, 50 years? it is too vague. The gap is too hit and miss for me, it is like me going into a Doctors office and being told I am going to grow 10 extra toes and I ask when can I expect this amazing thing to happen and the Doctor says, anywhere from 10 years to 100 years. There is no way any person would accept that from a doctor. Now I know the two things are very different, which is why I made a bit of fun from it by saying ten extra toes rather than something more sinister.
I really do value lightfast pigments and I fully appreciate their importance in the art world, but I just think that somewhere along the line, something else has crept in and I just wish that those artists who need lightfast products had a much more accurate verifiable system to work with. After all, artists pay large sums of money these products and so I don't think it is too much to ask that we have a better system to work with.
Thank you so much for your comment and you are so right about art work for loved ones needing just as much care and attention as a paid commission.
@@TheArtGearGuide Thank you Harry for your reply! The example with the extra toes made me laugh 😂 - it drives home the point, and I agree!
Thank you so much for this video - I found it quite informative. Glad you're feeling better. Have a great day.
I love all your videos--so informative. Stay well!
Glad you're back and feeling better.
So glad you are better!
Thanks for a very informative video. I'm all for expanding one's knowledge, and this information has clarified matters for me, so once again, many thanks.
I had the same sickness since christmas, and still on extra meds, tryin to get better. Thank you and hope you are finally better, be well . love your reviews !
Same here :|
It's good to know that you are in good health 🙏💖... and yes, the flu has struck because I was also sick during Christmas week but I'm fine now 🤗
I think that you can take advantage of colored pencils always and only if your art is for sale a plus that you paint with a professional pencil or you could also frame your art for the client by coloring with good pencils not necessarily professionals.
The art you have on the drawing board looks great! ✨
same here everyone fell this aweful and strange flu
i hope you are feeling better now ❤️
Thank you Harry for this video get felling better.
Hi harry glad to see your back , never apologise for being ill you have to take time to yourself to rest and get better.. thank you for this amazing upload as always 🥰
Hi Harry, first, get well soon! Please, take care🙏🏻. I feel sad for you, it must be bad to be sick. And second, thank you very much for this video, it's important to clarify this important topic. I loved that you will explain how these systems (Blue Wool Scale and ASTM) measure the ranges of lifghtfast. Get better soon!
Yiou've been in my prayers Harry. Your health and family neeed you more than we do. Just get totally well soon. This is a difficult subject that seems to have become more confusing over the years. It used to be so easy to go to the local art store and get a brand of paint that had been around for years and the same with our paper and pencils. We know what it did because our teachers and other artists had used the same thing for years and years ahead of us.
glad you're feeling better
We've had the same thing, never experienced anything like this before. We are slowly getting back to normal. Hope you have recovered, although I am sure that it's lingering, as it is with us 🤔.
My youngest child had something similar. It's would come and go, and she ended up in the hospital after becoming dehydrated. So yeah some really nasty viruses have been going around. I hope you feel better and have happy healthy year. I'm glad to see you back on.
I hope your child is feeling better, this was terrible whatever it was. Thank you so much for your kind words, I was so nervous about uploading this video because it had been so long since I uploaded my last video. So thank you so much
Hi Harry, soooo good to hear you are better. My daughter's fam still sick, and we have had to postpone having our Christmas with them
:(
Miss seeing you and your wonderful knowledge videos!!!! You and your fam stay well!!
I’m glad your better
Colour pencils work best with digital art in my opinion. Some artist I know of three, will sell originals using the very well known lightfast pencils behind UV glass and given strict instructions for installation. I have indian ink drawings from 50 years ago that are pristine, the tape I put on some didn't survive. The art book, acid free. Kept closed with one little crayola crayon drawing also pristine, go figure! No lightfast issues when your art is closed away in a book, deep in a drawer. Very good video Harry, take care of yourself, drink lots of fluids and REST!
I've been going by the CPSA lightfastness guide. They've got almost every common set of artist grade pencils tested, plus some defunct sets and at least one Crayola set. It's worth paying for a one year membership to get it if that's a concern. I haven't had an updated one in two years though, so I don't know where they are now. The Winsor Newton pencils, for example, are not in the guide I have. It's still incredibly thorough.
Lightfastness doesn't matter if you're just selling prints of your work. Just keep your original pieces in an archival box. It'll help preserve the colour longer.
Polychromos are a three-star system, and the rating is opposite. 3 star is most lightfast, according to them, then 2, then 1. They're using a blue wool system apparently though, where three stars is equivalent to 7/8 and two stars to 5/6.
Holbein do indeed use a three-star system as well, but there's been so much discourse about how much we can trust that, that I just went with what the CPSA said about which are trustably lightfast and which aren't.
Winsor Newton had a couple of different lines of markers - some lightfast-worthy and some not. I don't know what's going on there, as there's been somewhat of a rebranding over the past couple of years. They may have gotten rid of the markers they had that are NOT watercolour or pigment-based. Those used to be the promarker line, but now the watercolour ones are branded as promarker. IT was a bit confusing for me since I have old ones.
Hi Harry, it’s so good to seeing you looking so well! You’ve been missed. In 100 plus years I’d be dead so would the person that bought it. In my humble opinion just enjoy your supply’s regardless of what the company tells you about them. Look at Daniel Smith moon glow that was supposed to be pretty good lightfast. If worried I’d make sure its good paper and use uv glass.
Here in Portugal...the same me and a lot of ppl sick with this crazy flu, before getting covid in June 2021 I would rarely get sick after I was diagnosed with asthma and I get sick all the time... I would rarely get sick before covid... Ah and almost forgot to write...You are just amazing!!! Thank you!
Good to see you back
Thank you so much, I was so nervous about uploading this video because it had been so long since I uploaded my last video. I know it sounds silly but I just kept forgetting how to edit properly, forgot about adding links and so many other things and I was worried people would be annoyed with me. So thank you so much
@@TheArtGearGuide it was great as always very informative
I do agree with you. I tend to get caught up in the lightfast web. LOL However, I am not one that has to have multiple brands of pencils, as I work in many mediums and have slowly built up a wonderful line of supplies with only a main brand (or sometimes two) of each type of materials. Watercolor paint is probably my exception, as I filled in with several brands here and there. I am not a wealthy girl and took many many years to obtain my lovely supplies. (I got my Prismacolors in the late 90's for example! ) I saved for a couple of years to get a set of Polychromos, and they are my go-to pencils for my serious pieces.
I find that the exception to what you are saying may be watercolor paint. I find that when working with that medium, if the ratings aren't high, they do tend to fade very quickly. Especially some of the reds and pinks. I actually got some "Super-Granulating" paint from China (AliExpress) that looked real cool with dual colors and I was so disappointed because they faded so quickly - some within weeks - on paintings that weren't even stored in the light. So it is good to be aware of lightfastness in that respect. I believe they label those types of colors as "fugitive."
With so many working on journals and sketchbooks, I also don't feel that it is paramount to have top lightfastness ratings. However, it helps to use quality products that are from reliable companies. (as I do with all of my supplies). If I am going to do a piece of artwork where I know I want it to last, I go to my Polychromos. While at this point I don't sell my artwork, I may choose to do so one day and that way I am covered.
I do confess that last year I purchased a set of pencils from AliExpress that had beautiful Chinese characters on the barrels and awesome packaging. Lindsay Weirick (the Frugal Crafter) showed them and they were beautiful. I use them when I doodle and to be honest, they are pretty to look at and something that is a novelty. They were quite inexpensive (relatively) and just one of those supplies that is a joy to look at as well as fun to use.
I guess the bottom line is that people need to get what they can afford and feel fills their need for create. That is the most important thing.
I am happy you are feeling better. You were very much missed. I love your videos and really feel you offer us a lot of value. I hope you continue to feel better. :) Thank you for all you do for us!
I was falling apart too I’m having trouble breathing and shit like that nobody would take me seriously. Sad thing. Giveaway tho!
Thank you for this video. I also looked at lightfast testing, and if they manufacturer dont specify lightfast testing then maybe the art supplies may not be lightfast.
Hi Harry. So good to see you back.
Hi Kath, thank you so much, as I mentioned to a few others, I was so nervous uploading this video, I thought people would not be very happy with me because it had been so long since my last video and the fact I never updated people over Christmas and New Year. So thank you so much for your kind words
@@TheArtGearGuide I was so worried about you and the family, you were poorly when we last saw you. Please make sure you are fully recovered, take it easy.
I'm glad you're recovering from your illness. I had the same symptoms after testing positive for Covid on Boxing day, I'm still not quite recovered yet, still have a froggy throat and tiredness yet, but much better. I appreciate your investigation, looking into and sharing your findings into LF ratings. It can be a very confusing subject, especially to beginner artists with so many manufacturers claiming LF or fade resistance but not using the trusted scientific testing. I'm one of those artists who separate lower rated pencils and use the ones rated I or II on ASTM tested pencils or 6, 7 or 8 on bluewool scale, if I know I want things to last. I have used other pencil makes and tried carrying out the window test myself, facing the glass from UK late spring, summer to early Autumn months on pencils I'm unsure of, then having a bit more confidence in my choices after this. It's so disappointing when colours fade or change after spending hours or days creating. The other lower rated pencils I use in a sketch book or let the grandkids use them. Tale care and feel better soon.
Harry, Get well soon. It seems that after getting convid, our immune system are weaken, quite a number of my friends (including myself) are weaker after getting Covid. Thanks for the information on Lightfastness. I learned these from your channel.
That's yellow ranger caught my eye and now I got the power rangers theme stuck in my head lol
UV light is bad for paintings this is why I am using ohms they do not want you to use the flash on your camera when you’re taking a picture of the artwork because over time it makes the paint fade. This is why I was saying while ago that it is not a good idea for someone to stick and painting outside in the sunlight or on a windowsill to check lightfastness because basically you are ruining the painting yourself usually people hang their paintings in a room we don’t put a painting on a windowsill or outside lol like a new car a new car will fade over time Because of the sunlight.
Plus if you protect your paintings and drawings and use good quality supports, paper, of course they will last. Use the pigments or similar construct that the old masters used.
Look at the paintings and art work from hundreds and thousands of years ago. What pigments were used then. Those and similar methods are the ones that last.
Take care Harry!
I've subbed. I read your article and watched your video. I'm looking for a mix of both: vibrancy and lightfastness. As far as the latter, my work will be under UV glass. Does that affect the LF? I can tell you if I spend $300 for some pencils that I hate, I'm obviously not going to care about the drawing's lifespan because I'm disappointed with it to begin with. For 40 years I've been a painter but for some reason I've gravitated to pastels in the last few years and recently pencils. I guess I'll buy the one's you listed in your website but only in the 12 packs so I can test them. Thanks for your knowledge.
PS- I've had MRSA, throat cancer & radiation, and COVID last Christmas, which is far worse than either of those!! 🤢🤧🥵🥴😵💫
Glad you're better.
It would be nice if manufacturers coordinated on lightfast scales, but that would require fiercely competitive companies to agree on something and that will never happen. I know the direct sunlight tests aren't a real-world test, but some pigment sets survive very well under those circumstances. Almost the whole Daniel Smith catalog survives fine with that test, the exceptions being pretty predictable. Caran D'ache Luminance, same. I've seen the Prismacolor tested alongside the Polychromos and the Polys actually disappointed, some colors did not perform to the expectations of their lightfastness claims. Prismacolors went pretty much according to manufacturer claim and were more protected by UV treatments. Oh, and Prismacolor have about 70 claimed lightfast pencils. The other thing is that manufacturers can do lightfast testing via any means and the batch of pigment they send out to us might be different than the original test. Thus, I think it's important not to rely on their scales but to test your own pencils under whatever conditions you think are right.
And I think lightfastness is important even for rookies. Miranda Watson did a test where she painted two trucks, the sort of subject matter you might give a family member as a present. The painting done with one of the two paint sets faded almost white in places (I can't remember the manufacturer now, but it was one that claimed lightfastness). Thus, I think lightfastness is pretty important, even if you'll just be hanging a drawing on a wall at home. You put time and effort into a thing and having it fade would be sad. It makes sense to work with the best materials you can afford.
There you have it, my two cents. Look forward to your future videos.
Hum... I have a question 😅so... lightfastness to the side, if we would forget about it, what are your top top pencils? What would be the nicest to work with? (imagine lightfastness is not even a subject)
It also depends on how you store your art. Putting a painting outside is not good Of course it’s gonna fade being in the sunlight like that even a new car would fade over time being in the sunlight.
i guess the best way to explain lightfastnes, is to compare it to the miles the car can travel with a full fuel tank. it really heavily depends on where and how you drive, it easily can be zero miles driven, if the car is left alone with engine running. on the other hand, it also will depend is you're driving uphill mostly, or downhill, against the wind, pressure in tyres, the road surface, etc., etc., etc. that is why royal talens states the lightfastness in years under museum conditions, so having specific conditions, the years the colour will stay unaltered becomes more ore less constant, and predictable. and amusingly there are quite a lot of videos on youtube complaining about just that. people really are angered that in order for their artwork to last hundred+ years, it must be stored under museum conditions, and in their understanding other companies are claiming that that would be 100+ years no matter what. that's what you get for being completely open and honest. :)
I don't know if you misspoke but markers aren't given lightfastness rating in the same way as some other mediums, is because they use dyes and not pigments. Which generally speaking aren't very lightfast.
I was referring to the Faber Castell Pitt Markers and the Winsor and Newton Pigment Markers, those are the only markers with lightfast ratings the rest are all alcohol based which as you say don’t have any lightfast ratings
@@TheArtGearGuide :D ah I see.
when people think using more expensive materials is /only/ for the lightfast ratings... do people not use their brain anymore?
Mann, I miss your videos
Question
When will we find out who won the 72 Studio pencils?
Just outta curiosity
I know I won't get it. Just asking to tell them to have a good time
I’ll announce the winner on the 25th of this month i mentioned at the end of this video that I had extended the time because I had not been about to remind people coming closer to the date.
@@TheArtGearGuide ahh, thanks. I forgot you said that. For some reason, I remembered it being earlier. I'm so sorry.
Do you know any company I can contact to make a custom mixed media art set for people to buy with different brands? If not, that's ok.
It should be illegal to say something is lightfast when it's not, *cough* cheap chinese white labels. Also averaging out stars should also be illegal as it's misleading, if you use blue wool, use 8 stars or a number 1-8.
There is also the ASTM standard for toxicity and I wouldn't be surprised if these cheapo companies are relying on that to confuse people into thinking their stuff is lightfast.
I read somewhere that the blue wool goes back to the textiles industry where they dye wool.
Despite Prismacolor issues, they are still in my top used colored pencils. They work beautifully along with Polychromos, Derwent Lightfast, and Luminance. They are very similar to Luminance in lay down/technique burnishing, but of course they have their quality control issues.
Thanks for this. It appears that a lot of people are getting so caught up in Light Fast when they themselves do not do professional work. Nothing against colorist, but that is a waste of money using $4 pencils in a coloring book, when the true testament of those pencils will never be achieved in color book cheap paper. Paper is everything when it comes to colored pencils.
But yes I understand the testament for those that do work for family/friends.
Just my 2 cents.