Why you should always play Kalista twice
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2023
- What items are good on Kalista and is everything working as intended?
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From taliyah and kalista, I’ve learned if a unit has gimmicks then take 2 to fully take advantage of them
zaun ryze as well.
Lee Sin last set as well with hero augment
@@frogify_musicDouble Zaun Ryze is that good? Every time I play Zaun Ryze he dies before he can even cast lol
@@usagi666_it's highest capping board in the game. Gunblade is best on him. If you can you play him with 6 invoker, if not any strong board is good. Strategy is to play strong board early, push lvl 8 4-2/4-5, find ryze 1 with gunblade, wait to econ (you need to hit 25g for him to deal damage, 50 to consistently win fights). This should get you to 9 (still keep 50) and from there you find ryze 2 and win the game
Bonus hp on merged Cho'gaths too
Your ingenuity this patch has made you the most entertaining tft youtuber for me, keep up the great work!
honestly i wish riot would add like a grey bar so you can see where the execution range is
pffffffffaahahaahahah lol riot add nothing. So many trick they should add...never add
Mort talked about this, they say that it’s too complicated because of the many diffrent variables until execution
This is the same team who taught of piltover. I dont think this is being added anytime soon
@@gambikulesthey literally added so much this set 😂.
Yeah that'd be nice but it'd be nice on all the champions. At least we have some damage graphs.
Games free to play bruh
When ppl think everything is so easy to do without understanding a single thing 😂.
So cool that you figured out and explained how spell crit works on Kalista, always wondered how this works
was explained by mortdog a while ago
For anybody interested in the double trouble version of the board:
- You run Sett 3* WW 3* for your frontline (roll on 6), and Double kalista w/any shadow isles filler until you hit senna at 7
- BIS is JG/Guinsoo + 1 (usually GS or shiv)
If you manage to get to kalista 3* with double trouble (gold stats wise is better than prismatic), you're looking at some really decent stats (avg placement: 2.75 - 3.25; diamond+)
Sounds like a fun way to iterate the meta a bit; even if the interaction is unintended it should provide the meta with a little more to work with
Who is reliably hitting senna at 7?
Shiv seems like a bad item here, she does physical and true damage. If anything it's probably second guinso, hoj or maybe rapid fire.
Feel free to correct me
Oh hey it's Kai. Yeah, I'm down to try this
@@DuckSlinger11there is a minor mistake in the video saying that kalista stacks true dmg. kalista stacks magic dmg until the target is in execution range, and then kalista pull out the spears to deal true dmg equal to the stacked magic dmg, thats why the galio in the video takes less than 990*2=1980 true dmg. magic resist and mr reduction still effective on kalista, thats why shadow isle crown gives you a shiv.
@nagatoakira7962 ah I see, I didn't think the stacking was reduced by magic resist. Thanks!
These are awesome, I'm learning so much from you every time!! Appreciate it a lot
I figured this was the case because when I looked at the stats kalista has one of the best deltas with trickers glass
You confirmed a sneaking suspicion of mine that I was never able to verify until now. Your tests are always so insightful and robust. Thank you LeDuck!
Awesome video man, thank you so much for showing the testing that you did. It's way better seeing that testing for ourselves than just being told "this is how it works". I know it takes a lot of extra work and effort to show though, so I appreciate ya!
I learned A LOT in this video thank you so much
just waiting to see mortdog's take on this since they should have personal spear count for each one
Very informative. Thanks!
same goes with yas ult i noticed if one ults also the other will go to the target and keeps the mana he had
i always run 2 2 level kalistas instead of a 3 star kalista. and add both of them a guinsos and a hextech gunblade. i never knew why i was gettin huge heals but i know now. thanks leduck
lol that thumbnail is amazing
Damn, I've been thinking about this for a while
If they are removing this mechanic then they should add a QOL where Kalista will execute the target for 99999 damage like collector does
I saw the title and thumbnail and said to myself: I bet this is some Leduck vid.
What a brand. The hero we don't deserve.
Quality content 😌
Would this also imply that in order to maximize the kalista damage you should give 1 of them all the "single spear deals more damage" items like AA and JG and give the other kalista all the attack speed items, or am I misunderstanding this?
Does this work with Trickster's Glass? Have three of them on the board at the same time.
love your videos
So mort actually said he was 90% sure so that means that 10% was correct
Damn, awesome video. But how did you get this information? Like do you hard test the game like this or somebody led you to this information? Either way, really cool, great job!
He's always testing his own way until confirming or busting the question
What happens to edge of night? 🧐
Mortdog crying and shaking rn trying to get this fixed :'D
But if one Kalista gets killed, the other Kalista doesn’t “get” her spears, right? They are not pulling out each other’s spears, just accounting for each other’s execute.
Well but if we take a close look at the galio example, the number shows 1800 but he still wasnt executed before, althought he had just 900 hp remaining. So, doesnt this show that only the numbers that are being displayed are wrong, but the mechanic actually works correct? Or am I not getting something here...
i know what i will be playing the whole day haha
ty
I guess it's time for double trouble kalista
Anyone got a reliable counter comp to Ionia/Challenger Yasuo/Kaisa? Shits broken and at least 4 people play it every game
When you get Early Education do both Kalistas get credit for the kill?
Would that consider as bug abusing or no?
Hey, I think you really should try testing shimmerscales item with aatrox. for example: diamond hand and ryze shadow isle
Used to work, but everything got fixed
All I a asking is foor Runaan to work with her passive.
finally a good double trouble comp
Does this work for azir?
Huge info
Is this Kalista tech still a thing?
sounds kinda yummy with gunblade
What about double Cassiopeia?
We know if its still working?
that's fr interesting
both your kallistas get the full damage from the rend right?
you could get a lot of healing by gunblade-ing both your kallistas, since each kallista does kallista A + kallista B damage on the execute, giving you damage equal to 4 kallistas
I was thinking the same thing. You get to double up on healing. Each Kalista heals for BOTH of their spears with gunblade. Seems pretty decent.
@@johnnyblackrants7625 i looked at this during a game and it doesn't exactly work, since both kallistas don't always execute on the same target.
it'll still give you the true damage equal to kallista A + kallista B, but not on both A and B unless they execute at the same time
Funny week 1 i asked arround if the combo is good of 2 Kalistas everyone said its hot garbage XD
Idk if you’ve tested it but it would be interesting to see if a dead kalistas spears could be pulled out by the other Kalista (that would be gross)
That won't work, if a Kalista dies, all her Spears are gone.
@@leduck awww sad
@@leduck maybe the move is a double trouble set up with damage kalista and gunblade kalista to abuse the overkill as much as possible lol
@@seankeegan4468 Double Trouble and Trickster Glass is probably the best way to get use out of it. Outside of that it can be a useful setup in early mid game if you have space on your board for a second Kalista.
All hail the reign of Leduck, greatest influencer in set 9
well since mort himself said its suppose to be calculated as separate kalistas its a bug then and itll get fixed eventually so anyone who wants to just go willy nilly better take advantage now before it becomes zzz
is this intended? Will they patch this out?
Is this still the case? 12/08/2023
Shouldnt it be "play" instead of "plays" in the title?
besides that really good video 👍
that's so cool
I understand the concept, but i dont really see the signifigance of running 2 kalistas when you can have another unit that gives more traits. If you dont kill a unit right away because of a shield or something, shes just going to keep attacking that same unit anyway and kill it the instant she can. Can anyone provide more insight on what i might be missing?
I mean if the trait gives you more advantage then sure
Imagine you have two kalistas, then one of them has atackspeed and other has lots of ap. That means, that first one can stick in a lot of spears and the one with lots of ap will think that it was her own spears. Idk but I think that's the reason
That's not how it works though. If one Kalista is adding 50 dmg and the other is adding 16 dmg, they are both ready to execute at 66 damage.
You lose one unit slot that is right.
But the second kalista will kill the enemy if the first one doesn’t kill it due to shields etc.
I think it depends on the comp you are running to check whether its worth or not, but i can see this being totally busted with double trouble
@@ensirius2083 no, kalistas stack independently for the execution trigger. The actual ingame effect of double Kalista adds OVERKILL ensuring it goes through shields and such. This part is showed on the galio example where the total had to reach 990 (750+240). If what you said was true then the calculation would become (500+500) aka 10 hits instead of 15 hits as shown in the video.
Youre confusing execution [trigger] with execution [damage]. The [trigger] counts individual kalista spears and the [damage] happens when [trigger] = Enemy HP. The execution [damage] here is the same for both Kalistas (990x2) instead of exact 990 (750+240) but damage is not important aside from reasons mentioned above like shields
Think of it like this. Collector executes enemies below 10% hp which deals 99999 damage. In Kalista's case, instead of 10%hp, it counts if spear = hp. Instead of 99999 damage, it deals damage equal to hp left.
how does this interact with things like gunblade or pharmacist tho?
If both pull, both get healed. If only one pulls due to shield, only one benefits; if the shielded unit then dies before the second can pull, the second won't benefit.
I did this by accident and realized my team got significantly worse without 2 Kali's
Does hurricane work with kalista? Putting spears to multiple unit?
no
NOTED
Does runaan's make Kalista stack her spears on different targets?
no
Nice
Yo, so i made a comment on your zaun video about this and a few days later you make a video about it.
Was it just a coincidence or did you actually find this out from me?
Sion Exoskeleton was something I wasn't aware of. Kalista video was on my to do list for a long time, but like I explained in the intro, I had a lot of discussions with high elo players due to misleading information, which led to this video.
lil bro thought he was Newton
@@tongshuwen4199 chill i wasnt taking patent on the idea. I was curious if it sparked an idea that he wasnt aware of.
@@leduck cheers. Was just curious if my comment actually lead to a new discovery that other pro players had overseen. I didnt imply anything bad if that is what people take from my comment!
But amazing work on testing item interaction on her ability.
so mortdog lied about double kalista
Seemed obviously logical to me
Does the double damage count also mean they would heal allies twice with gunblade?
Let's assume you have two Kalista and their combined Spears will deal 1000 True Damage. This means once their target reaches 1000 HP, both Kalistas will pull all Spears. Now both Kalista will deal 1000 True Damage each, overkilling the target by twice of what was needed. It will be shown ingame as 2000 True Damage, because the game is adding the damage together, since it happened at the same time. The Kalista with Gunblade will now heal for her own 1000 True Damage that she gets credit for.
@@leduck so giving both kalistas a gunblade always doubles the healing?
Even better to probably play one full damage and one with three gunblades lol
@@leduckIn this scenario, say both Kalistas had gunblade. Due to how the fight plays out, Kalista A puts 9 spears in a target and Kalisa B puts 1. Both Kalistas rend the target on the 10th spear, and both get credit for doing 1000 true damage. That should mean Kalista B will heal herself and the lowest health teammate for 220 (22% of 1000), despite only attacking once, no?
@@enriquelehner4544 I mean Gunblade doesn't really do anything noteworthy for this interaction. While it shows twice the damage needed, its simply each Kalista getting full credit once on the target if the target is in execute range.
Time to bug abuse😂
Does hurricane work?
No
Does shiv do nothing for kalista? I would guess no with her ability stating true dmg but why does shadow isle prismatic give kalista with a shiv then?
Shiv are useful for others units like Gwen or Viego, maybe that the reason.
She doesn't need the shred but she uses the stats extremely well and applies the damage pretty fast, a lot of those augments specifically don't give exact BiS items as a balancing lever (giving her rageblade in that augment would be insanely strong but shiv is just solid)
She does support her kaisa in challanger comps but thats about it. Shiv ap and as is kinda low to be called damage item outside of shred.
i reaaaaly like kalista with shiv kalista uses aspd very well and with guinsoo it gets crazy fast. i believe the trait would not give a guinso since t would be used for other comps. but my feeling is that shiv helps your "start working" on other targets HP while stacking spears on frontline. its backline acess, sometime i kill a 1 star in the backline as fast as i kill a big tank early. i find it that if the tank survives too long kalista cant handle a multiple character backline, and shiv seems to deal with that. you can stabilize a long time with shiv + guinsoo
Challengers gives guardbreaker I am pretty sure (maybe that invoker not challenger but you get the point) so it's not really a good indicator.
This video just got mort to tweet about bug abuse bans 😂😂 nice testing as always Duck Dude
His tweet has nothing to do with Kalista. It's about something else that is much, much more impactful.
@@leduckmonkaS
I feel a nerf incoming
what about 3 kalistas?
I mean, you could go up to 4 kalistas. There was an attempt with Taliyah (which made much more sense bc the additional copies each helped with generating more knockups) but it's hard to justify more than one unit space adding 0 synergy to the comp
Most has said this isn’t true and they both have their own counter
But the video showed indisputable proof and that Mort had this one wrong...? It happens sometimes, which is why I make these videos.
It's great to see interactions checked so precisely. Mortdog definitely said each Kalista counted separately but the evidence says otherwise!
does this work still?
Yep everything still works like this
@@leduck That was really nice of you to answer his question so quickly! Not like it makes a difference but you just earned a new sub :D
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but if they wait until 990 to pull the spears anyway than is it really a big deal if they do 1819? Like sure itl be more healing and be useful for shields but those seem not enough worth it to run 2 of them. What's the big advantage of doing massive overkill damage if they are waiting until the proper threshold to pull?
I mean they weren't supposed to be doing 990 in the first place , the stronger kalista was doing 750 and wouldn't have used her ult till galio hit the threshold, the second kalista kills the galio many seconds earlier into the fight.
Double trouble kalista is broken
Kalista should be able to count her spell damage according to health only and not include shields.
i guess a full ap and a full attack speed kalista would work pretty well together then
Not rly, since they're each tracking their own DMG value before adding up with each other, how fast you stack spears or how big your individual spear hits for doesn't make a difference.
Wether you hit 3 times in 2s for 90 each or 9 times in 2s for 30 each, both will have a combined number of 270 which will then add to a total of 540. Apart from the added flexibility in using components, 2 kalistas shouldn't be built any differently than 1 in terms of attack speed and flat damage.
What IS considerable is to have one of the two kalistas go full CRIT since in situations where the enemy would survive a rend by shield, the added 40% CRIT dmg might push through and save the normal kalista 1 Autoattack (assuming the CRIT kalista pulls first ofc, which I wonder if it's pure 50/50 chance or there's other factors going into it). It's insignificant, but it will make going full CRIT on one of the two kalistas viable without the usual downside of low attack speed
@@midknightcrisis8612 you do realize tho that the dmg of them is being procced twice as shown in the video
That's why i would go one kalista with rageblade rapid and something else and one with raba jg and seraphs i do have to test it but if i understood it correctly that should be insane
Your AS kalista would throw 100 spears dealing 1 dmg and your AP kalista would throw 10 spears doing 10 dmg, thats 100*1 + 10*10 = 200 dmg, NOT all 110 spears * the AP kalistas AP so 110*10=1100 dmg. Both would pull the spears when the target reaches 200HP. The first one to pull the spears would kill the target and the second one would just be a failsafe in case something like BT procs
already doesnt work
If thats the case why did they wait till Galio go to 990hp to execute him? If what you are saying is true they should execute earlier.
I think the number shown when they execute is just bugged or maybe it works for overkilling the unit but they dont see the other Kalista's spears as their own.
Also if that was the case the Kalista with no rabadons would do 480 damage.
In other words I think the only benefit to running two Kalistas is when the target would have normally survive, which is probably a bug
Everything is explained in the video, looks like you misunderstood something. If we only count damage from Rabadon Kalista then she can't execute yet because she only has 750 true damage. But she is able to count the 240 damage from the other Kalista on top of her 750, which brings her into execute range. The other Kalista does the same, so both rend at the same time. Why is this relevant? It means contrary to what many players believe, you don't lose damage if two Kalistas attack the same target. It has the added benefit of both Kalista's pulling ALL spears at the same time, which will overkill the target by double of what is needed which is acting as a faIl safe against BT/Prot mechanics etc.
@@leduckwouldn’t you say it’s working as intended though? It’s like both Kalistas are working together and adding up their combined damage before they both pull, like a coordinated baron take. I don’t see how this is broken.
@@iChuckT The main point of this video was to clear up a misconception. This interaction as far as I know is NOT intended, they are supposed to be completely independent from each other.
@@leduck As you said you don't loose damage, but you also not gain. What happens is what should happen. Its not an added benefit.
As I mentioned in my previous comment the only benefit is that for some reason both Kalistas do 990 damage so if there is a heal shield or whatever the sum of their damage will execute which would have not normally coz they should have done 240 + 750.
Riot should give this guy a PhD degree or something
This is a bug most likely considering Mort's tweet today
Highly doubt that it's referring to Kalista. This is just fielding a unit twice and a lot players always thought that she should work this way. Exploits usually refer to very specific (and often unnatural) actions that impact gameplay in a severe way. For example duping Nomsy/T-Hex. I have a pretty good idea which exploit he is talking about, but I won't make a video or bring attention to it.
I dont get why a lot of people think that it shouldnt work this way and that double kalista should do absolutely nothing instead of this.
because mortdog has repeatidly stated that to be the case, this will probably get fixed so enjoy it while you can
@@AssassinateThatCreep I know but honestly it makes more sense this way, atleast to me
@@zsomborszigeti6797 it making more sense does little to authority bias. You'd expect the TFT lead dev to know the facts about this interaction, especially since he got asked that a lot. Tbf, mortdog only said he was "pretty sure" Abt it, but it would've helped if there was a follow-up following a proper fact check.
@@zsomborszigeti6797 makes sense? maybe
gameplay wise this is terrible OTL
@@AssassinateThatCreep gameplay wise it's terrible that your damage dealer does 0 damage
Not the 1st time Mort trick noobs
IS this still relevant?
You need to chill with releasing tft videos. Or RUclips gonna delete your account :D
Nah it was just the beard who can blame them