How to Find and Use Triplets in Sudoku Puzzles / Tutorial #9
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- Explanation and demonstration of Triplets (or Triples). Subsets of Three in Sudoku. One of the most commonly occurring Patterns. Easy to see, and very useful.
Brilliant teaching you are my new Swami! I’ve read three books watched so many videos and you made it clear where no one else did thanks!
I’m 10:24 into this 30 min presentation and I’m already SOLD. I’ve seen many other redditors that likely know sudoku extremely well but lack the teaching/presentation skills. THIS is gold!
Great. Glad you like it. Welcome aboard. If you have any questions: sudokuswami@gmail.com
Thank God someone finally explained this clearly.
Ha-ha! Great. :-))
I SO agree! I just subscribed. 😁
Thanks so much for explaining this clearly. I was very much lost with diabolical Sudoku, for last few days. finally managed to solved it by finding hidden Triplets .
Thanks again for your time.
Glad to hear it! Good luck! :-))
I've been watching many different Sudoku tutorials and this is by far the best. The previous one on pairs (#8) cleared up tremendous confusion I had from watching someone else. S.S. is clear and precise which is essential for a logic-based puzzle like Sudoku.
Thank You. Best explanation of triplets I've seen thus far. I really like how to verbalize your thought process. Other videos don't seem to do that.
Thanks Mark. Welcome aboard. I highly recommend watching the Lessons in chronological order..... Good luck!
Excellent presentation! Logical, organized, succinct and well presented. Thank you
Thank you! At last after watching so many videos on this subject, I found this one which makes sense and now I understand. So very pleased
Best video I’ve seen. Thank you!
If you enjoyed this Video, please don't forget to click the SUBSCRIBE button, and the Thumbs Up Icon. It will really help me out. Thank you!
Thanks. Made the triple-mystery at least a bit clearer to me. Though I can verify the solutions und the comparetivly easy consequences, I still lack a searching strategy for hidden triples. I saw a 3-step approach on another channel: 1 Eliminate all candidates with more than 3 appearences. 2 Eliminate all cells with less than two candidates. 3. Look for the naked triple. ... But honestly, I'm still confused.
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Glad I stumbled on you. Well done. Thank you Swamiman.
Welcome aboard, Stephen. I appreciate your comment...... :-))
Be sure to visit sudokuswami.com for an Outline of the Entire Course, and news about upcoming Videos!
Hidden Triple at 27:07
1. Examine this block.
2. These three squares are the only squares that can contain 2, 4, and 5 in this block. Therefore, the other notes in these squares can be erased.
I watch the video, think I understand what it is that you are teaching and then proceed to do a puzzle and find that I don't have a hope in hell of ever finding these hidden triples. Just about all of your examples appear on the screen pre-shaded and you tell the viewer what the candidates are. Would it be possible for you to add several examples that the viewer can pause in the video to try and figure out before you give the answer. It might help get through my fat head what it is that I am looking for. I know you say three candidates in three cells, but mix them up with a pile of other candidates and it just about drives you crazy😜
People are so "spooked" by Hidden Pairs and Hidden Triples, and think they are impossible to find. But if you look at them "backwards," they become very simple. What I mean by this, is that it helps to look for larger Subsets (like Quads and Quints, etc.) occurring within a house, rather than trying to find the Hidden Subsets themselves. If you have a House with two solved Cells and seven unsolved Cells, then if you see a Quad, the other three Cells MUST contain a Hidden Triple (or a Hidden Pair and a Single).
Excellent demonstration. Really helpful explanation.
Like all previous lessons, this lesson is again incredibly clear. There is only one stumbling block for me. That has nothing to do with the teacher's qualities, becouse you rock!
I never have dificulties in finding naked triplets and locked (both naked and hidden) triplets. But finding hidden triplets (not locked) is a whole different story.
How do you see them? I never know how to filter them out.
If there is ever a Hidden ANYTHING, the OTHER Cells will be a Naked Subset of some size. Look for the Naked Subsets, and the remaining Cells will always be some combination of Hidden Subsets.
Brilliant! I never thought of that. This makes sence. I’m going to try this. Thanks!!👍
This finally makes sense! Thank you!
Am confused; at 25:55, each of the highlighted cells are to the left of cells with the same candidates; so how does that work when the rule is that the three candidates do not appear outside of the 3 cells?
?
In this case, we are looking at the COLUMN. In Column 5, only three Cells contain the Candidates {1,6,8}. Therefore, those three Cells constitute a HIDDEN Triple. Those three Cells must be solved for those three Candidates. Another way to see this is to observe that there is a Naked Quad of {2,4,5,9} in Column 5. So, removing those Candidates from the other Cells in that Column, will also reveal the Triple.
I really enjoyed your presentations and I love the way you describe and bring fun to your presentations and they are well made, organized and work of an intelligent, playful, curious and kind heart as you share all of this for the rest of us. What software do you use. I love the way you can pick, remove and display. I have been using web Sudoku as they have huge supply of puzzles of various complexity and it is convenient. I also played with some Android free software. I have not found something as capable of the one you are using. I just want a software that does the busy work of identify candidates and let me do the "Head Work". Having tools like filters would be a blessing and being able to scan games and importing would be wonderful as well or at least one that allows you to manually enter and save. I stumbled on your # 9 lesson when I was researching Triples. Now I am going through your other lessons. You are so damn efficient and thorough. You must have math or science back ground, Yours has been the bestTutorial I have found. I love it.
Thank you for your kind words, and welcome aboard. For a full rundown on software, please send an email to me at:
sudokuswami@gmail.com
Very good presentation and easy to understand.
Wonderful..you are awesome
Please make a video how to find hidden triplets
Excelente Tutorial. Gracias. Saludos desde Mallorca.
Great lesson. Thanks
Great presentation. Thank you
Best part is what to eliminate from naked (outside) and hidden (inside)
There is something else you missed mentioning... A locked candidate in a triple set spanning over 2 houses... Say that we've got a triple (eg. AB AC BC) in a row spanning over box 1 & 2, (eg. AB AC in box 1, BC in box 2) and a candidate (eg. A) of the triple appears exactly twice in that row in box 1 but not in box 2, so any other appearances of that candidate (eg. A) in box 1 can be eliminated... Pretty cool huh?
That's called a Triple.
Isn't that just the same as a locked candidate type 2, which he described in tutorial #7? However, in that case, the candidate A would just happen to be a part of 2 different configurations. It's a locked candidate (i.e., Snyder pair) in Block 1, but also part of the triple in the row.
Can you have a locked hidden triple that can eliminate the 3 candidates within either the row/column or block?
If a Triple is LOCKED, then yes, it will remove the 3 Candidates from both Houses. If a Triple is Hidden, then it means those Candidates do not appear anywhere else besides the three Cells containing it.
17, 89, 789, 1789. I read this as 789, 789, 89 triples being the other 789 has a 1 (hidden?) so I eliminate that and the 17 will now be a 1 but it turns out I'm wrong base on my answer on the la times sudoku site? Why? I would be thankful for an answer. I'm thankful for your tutorial especially now that I recently appreciated sudoku and eager to learn its ways. I'm kind of scared tho that I might not get it, but I'll still try my best.
The four Cells you describe, form a Quad. NOT a Triple.
Is there such thing as a hidden locked triple? Or a hidden triple that can lead to a locked triple?
Yes, of course. "Locked" simply means that the Subset lies in two Houses at the same time, (i.e., a Row and a Block or a Column and a Block). But note that only Pairs and Triples can be locked. Anything larger will not fit into the intersection of two Houses.
I am still trying to learn triples ! When I look at your first example I would look at the digits that are in one cell only . . . 3 and 4 . . . . but they are both in the same cell ! What do I do now ?!
I think that was just an example! I like the Hidden Triple explanation. I feel I could go and use that. Most of this stuff is tricky for me because I haven't got used to marking ALL the small digits in a house. Thank you!
Maybe it's time to switch to an APP that enters and removes Candidates automatically? It's way more convenient, and saves time.....
This is great stuff. I understand what is being said but I'm still isolating rogue triples everywhere in the sudoku. Is there a set formula to isolate a triple (both naked and hidden) apart from the scanning tecnique? In a house I've tried by deleting candidates occuring more than 3 times and then deleting any candidates occuring singly (this is another lesson on RUclips) but I usually end up with no canditates in the house at all! So I'm looking for a formula which says 'do this and this and this' and voila here is a definite triple. I am not a 'logical' person but am enjoying sudoku immensely.
If you are generally using techniques that require seeing ALL possible Candidates, then you are defeating your purpose by deleting Candidates for no other reason than to find Triples. Not sure what you mean by a "rogue" Triple. A Triple is Three Candidates in Three Cells that lie in at least One House. It's as simple as that. With practice, you should be able to find them easily, with just your eyes.
@@SudokuSwami Thanks for replying. My rogue triples are triples which I see as meeting all the criteria of what triples should be but as I finish the sudoku they are bad and makes the sudoku unsolvable. I find loads of them but most are wrong. I really liked the A B C explanation you gave for a triple comprising of 2 + 2 + 2 candidates and wondered if there are similar formulae for other types of triples? Maybe wishful thinking but I'll keep on plugging on and thanks for the great lessons.
@@pooka217 I'm responding to an old post, but that technique actually does work. It makes it a bit easier to systematically go through the puzzle to try to spot hidden triples. The steps are: (1) ignore (i.e., pretend that they are not there, not actually eliminate at this time) all candidates that appear more than 3 times in the house, since a candidate in a triple can only occur a maximum of 3 times, (2) if after ignoring those candidates there are any cells left with just one candidate, then that candidate needs to be ignored in all cells in the house as well, since a triple cannot contain only one candidate in one of the cells (two is the minimum as seen in the AB AC BC scenario, for example), (3) remember to repeat step 2 if there are now other cells with only 1 candidate, and (4) look to see if anything is left that satisfies the criteria for being a triple. If not, there is no hidden triple in that house and it's time to move on.
As an example, look at the puzzle at 25:15 in column 5. Step 1 would be to ignore any candidates that appear more than 3 times in the column - that would be 2, 4, 5 and 9. After doing that, you are left with your hidden triple of 1, 6 and 8, and you can actually eliminate 2, 4, 5 and 9 from those 3 cells. Now test the technique on column 6 instead. Step 1 would be to ignore 1, 2, 5, 6 and 9 since they all appear more than 3 times in the column. However, this leaves a single 7 and a single 8 in 2 of the cells, which means those candidates need to be ignored as well, leaving nothing. Therefore, there is no hidden triple in column 6. The vast majority of times you will end up with nothing as hidden triples are relatively rare.
Alternatively, you can just try to pick them out by eye as the swami says, but this technique may make it a bit easier to spot.
Is there a rule to find a naked or a hidden triplets between 5 -6 cells with many candidates??
There is no special rule that I am aware of. Just look for the same Three Candidates that lie in exactly Three Cells in at least One House.
@@SudokuSwami thanks for your reply.
Why can’t a hidden triple be a locked triple?
It CAN be. But you won't know it, until you remove all the OTHER Candidates from the three Cells containing the Hidden Triple. And those three Cells must lie in the intersection of a Row and a Block, or in the intersection of a Column and a Block, in order to be considered "Locked."
Sudoku Swami thanks for your reply. I just didn’t notice any examples of locked hidden triples on your video. I guess I am just having a mental block on the issue. I understand that the locked hidden triple would next become a naked triple when your rule on hidden triples were applied. I guess that is the reason you didn’t include it in your video.
Yeah, that's fine. It was legitimate question. But I never said a Hidden Triple could NOT be Locked. It's not that big of a deal. If a Triple is Locked, it just means that it applies to both Houses. Only Triples and Pairs can be Locked. Quads or greater, CANNOT be Locked, because there is not enough room. If you have any other questions, feel free to email me at sudokuswami@gmail.com
@@SudokuSwami Thanks
@@SudokuSwami At time 30:08 you wrote "Locked triple: 3 candidates in 3 cells. The 3 candidates are the ONLY candidates in the 3 cells". I guess it means that if it's LOCKED it must be also NAKED.
However, you admitted above, in your answer to Palemedes, that a triplet "CAN be" LOCKED and HIDDEN at the same time (which means LOCKED but NOT-NAKED)...
Also, you added "...but you won't know it, until you remove all the OTHER Candidates from the three Cells containing the Hidden Triple." I disagree. As soon as you figure out they are a HIDDEN triplet, you immediately also figure out in which cells they are contained. So, you immediately know they are both HIDDEN and LOCKED. Moreover, you can act accordingly and you can start removing candidates OUTSIDE the three cells before "undressing" the triplet (i.e making it NAKED). Of course, by definition one of the 2 houses in which the three cells lie won't contain candidates eligible for elimination OUTSIDE the three cells, but the other house might...
Did you miss (removing) a 2 @ 32:05?
Actually, yes, But you apparently did not read the side text @ 32:00, which says exactly that. I saw it when I was editing the video and it was too much trouble to re-film that segment, so I corrected it with side text. It is very important to read ALL my side texts. They are there for a reason. :-)) Good luck.
Mucho Gracias, Swamiman.
No problem, amigo. Thanks for your Subscription.....
These hidden triplets are virtually impossible to spot.
Back into it. If you have a House with seven unsolved Cells, and you see a Quad, the other three Cells MUST contain a Hidden Triple, or a Hidden Pair and a Hidden Single.
Great explanation but hidden triples are extremely hard to find. Relying on them to solve a puzzle will, in my opinion, take an inordinate amount of time.
You should not RELY on anything! You should familiarize yourself with as many solving techniques as possible, and then you just have to look, and see what you can find. You have to be prepared for all possibilities. Good luck!
WoW, Great answer, what can I say!!!
I agree. Hidden subsets are a nightmare to spot. Quads are obviously even worse, although a hidden quad will most probably co-exist with a naked pair or triplet, easing the pain.
I've dozed off many times while looking for subsets. I find the structural strategies (wings, fish) to be far more stimulating, but every now and then one just cannot avoid some or other pesky hidden subset....
Practice makes perfect!
Practice makes perfect….. to a point.
I’ve been doing these things for close on 20 years, and the basic principles - region alignment and subsets have been natural solving strategies from the get go. Only in the last 6-7 years have I been illuminated regarding some of the more advanced strategies - wings, Fish, URs etc, and these have certainly rejuvenated my interest in Sudoku, to the point that I am a hopeless addict. If there is a “Sudoku Anonymous” somewhere in the world, please pass on their contact details.
I must’ve solved 10’s of thousands of puzzles in the time I’ve played (or it feels that way), but I’m still seeking the silver bullet. To avoid being demoralised, I hardly attempt puzzles way beyond the comfort zone (if a hint revealed says: “Sue-de-Coq”, I’m playing on too high a level)
Your videos are brilliant in explaining the concepts, but what I’m really looking for is a “strategy” on how to apply the strategies, if you get my meaning. I generally go Alignment, Subsets, what I refer to as “Structural” (X wing/Swordfish, Naked or Sashimi) followed by bivalue techniques (W/XYZ/XY wings, BUGs) in that order, throughout also checking for URs. (I suspect also, although I have no example to prove it, that application of UR thinking early in a puzzle can lead to increased perceived difficulty of the puzzle. Perhaps what could happen is that something like an obvious X wing gets converted to something like an obscure Shashimi-Swordfish) Due to their perceived complete randomness, I personally avoid multi-link X and XY chains as I find them more frustrating than looking for hidden subsets and takes me of said comfort zone. I suspect that only a genius could do a thorough simultaneous search for all, and that I am not, so sequential it has to be. The sequence is iterative and is based on searching for what is most obvious first before moving on to the more advanced strategies. Despite my dislike for them, subsets are searched for earlier as at times they can be obvious and probability of existence at the early stages is generally high. It appears there are a great number of other strategies I have not yet learnt. I still try to add a string or two to the bow whenever I can, but evolution is a slow process, especially in an aging brain.
The obvious problem with the sequential approach is that in searching for a specific structure, one is prone to miss another that may have been more obvious if consciously sought. The last thing one wants is to spend an hour searching for a 5-link XY chain, only to discover a simple region alignment has all along been missed. When this happens, I switch off and go to sleep, but not before first hurling some verbal abuse at my computer.