Totally agree with you on the Maazel Brahms 2nd, Magnus. Intonation-wise, the D-major chord at the end of the 4th from the trombones is the absolute BEST!
That Stokowski #4 recording is fantastic!! I have long considered it my favorite. The first time I heard this I actually was frightened by some sections - like the end of the 1st movement- because Stokowski really hammers home the excitement and drama. What's interesting is that the late career Brahms 2nd that Stokowski recorded is also one of my favorites. He really knew what he was doing once he moved past the need to tinker with things.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I listened to the Stokowski Brahms 2nd tonight just because it had been a while since I listened to it. Unreal. This was one of his last recordings and thank god he made this. This thing really is a gift from god.
Ha... I had a similar experience the first time I heard the Bruckner Third (my first ever Bruckner) when I was in music school. When the brass choirs played they soared up to the most impossibly high range, without shrill tone or bad intonation. I thought I’d discovered a whole new world of classical brass music. Then I realized I was playing it at 45 even though it was a 36 record.
I have a fond attachment to the Tragic Overture as I remember it was one of the early pieces I listened to when I was first delving into classical music as a kid - oh i could kick myself as I'm trying to remember the conductor - i could be wrong but maybe Horenstein - anyway it was one of those pieces that sold me on the whole genre - the music was so darn exciting (even the slow mysterious parts in their own way !) - and yet at the same time it had moments full of such warm lyricism and nobility that even as a kid did not fail to move my young soul
Different conductors for each piece is really tough, but here goes: Symphony 1: Christoph Eschenbach, Houston Symphony Symphony 2: Max Fiedler, Berlin Philharmonic Symphony 3: Paavo Jarvi, Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen Symphony 4: Whun Myung Chung, Czech Philharmonic Haydn Variations: Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia Academic Festival Overture: Dimitri Mitropoulos, New York Philharmonic Tragic Overture: Eugen Jochum, London Philharmonic Serenade 1: Charles Mackerras, Scottish Chamber Orchestra Serenade 2: Kurt Masur, Leipzig Gewandhaus (I would have gone with Mackerras here, too, but I wanted to play by the rules)
I know films don't count, but for a truly "granitic" opening of the 1st, check out the Karajan film of the 1st from the 70s. His films are usually a disaster, for many reasons, but the first chord in the film is fabulous. It's as if all music comes right out of the first tympani stroke. Crack of Doom, indeed. Of all his Brahms, I thing the '64 4th is the best. The long crescendo in the slow movement is so great. The finale is insistent, unforgiving, and apocalyptic.
I'm a big fan of the first serenade and Haitink/RCO used to be my personal favourite version untill I came across a certain Spering/Capella Augustina version (available in youtube btw). Just can't get enough of it. What a gem. Fresh pastoral mood throughout, It feels just right balanced to me, contrasting nicely with the noble Haitink version which I still listen too. Just wanted to share that.
OK, I'll play along. Some old faves, some sentimental choices, some new discoveries. 1. Cleveland/Szell. Picks me up by the scruff of the neck in bar one and doesn't let me down to the end. And places symphony in Beethoven lineage more than most. 2. Czech PO/Ančerl. Great winds, super exciting, especially slow movement. 3. Chicago/Reiner. My first Brahms symphony ever, and no reason to cast it aside. 4. Vienna PO/Kleiber. Unlike our genial host, I find Kleiber's thorough goings-over compelling and gripping. Serenade 1: London SO/Kértesz. Nothing not to love. Serenade No. 2: NYP/Bernstein. Great to hear our old wind friends (Baker, Drucker, Gomberg, et al.) from LB's Young People's Concerts in such prominent roles. Academic: NYP/Walter. A thriller. Tragic: Philharmonia/Klemperer. A block of granite that moves, crushing everything in its path. Haydn Variations: SWR Baden-Baden & Freiburg/Gielen. Just plain fun. Do I get to go on to the lightning round now?
Dorati’s recordings of 1 and 4 on Mercury with the LSO are well worth a listen if you like lean mean Brahms with some snarl and bite. There are some splendid contrabassoon low Cs in the first movement of no. 1.
I have recently discovered your reviews and have been enjoying them very much. Thank you for introducing me to some of the work of Karel Ancerl. I just listened to his recording of Tragic Overture and was very pleased with it. I also listened to a recording I grew up with but haven't heard in many years - the old Toscanini recording with the NBC. I think the old man holds his own with Ancerl. It was an even more committed and gripping performance than I remembered, and the tragic drama never sagged. Of course the fidelity was not as good as the Ancerl recording, but it was nice hearing such fine performances of this work.
Brahms I: Giulini, LAPO - DG Brahms II: Bernstein - SONY (a crystal clear rendition of my favourite Brahms Symphony and probably a very underrated performance) / Abbado's interpretation is also fantastic (beautiful horns in the adagio!) Brahms III: Karajan, VPO - DECCA! The '64 on DG is also first rate, but it's not Vienna.. Still, give me any of these two Karajan interpretation Brahms IV: Solti! - DECCA ('They played like their lives depended on it') The Serenades: Mackerras - Telarc Hungarian Dances: Fischer, BFO - Philips Violin Concerto: Oistrakh, Szell - Warner (The definition of virtuosity)
A kindred spirit in exploring different performances. Great music always more. to discover. I love the idea that you mention of discovering the music as if we've never heard it. How did the first audience respond? We don't know the key, the meter, the orchesteation. What surprises await each experience. How does the composer create momentum, phrase direction.? Masks, etc. and smart voting could lead to live concerts again. Regards from Santa Barbara.
David and fellow listeners: Does anyone know the best way to obtain the Jochum Haydn Variations recording from this video on CD? On Amazon, I see that the Japanese import of the album is all that's available (complete with liner notes in Japanese, which are of little to no help to me, given that I don't know any Japanese). I also see that the album is in Volume 1 of Jochum's Complete Deutsche Grammophon Recordings box set, which I am very interested in purchasing given David's general bullishness on Jochum, but I have searched for it in multiple places and have yet to find any trace of it available new, used, or at all. Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance for your help, and my belated thanks to you, David, for such a long string of informative and entertaining videos! I am watching them with great interest, and spending too much (but never enough) money trying to keep up with all your recommendations. You've turned me onto some gems so far!
1. Furtwangler/Hamburg '51 (alternates: Munch/Paris, Solti/Chicago) 2. Abbado/Berlin (live) (alternates: Klemperer/Philharmonia, Szell/Cleveland) 3. Walter/Columbia (was sure you'd pick it) (alternates: Wand/NDR, Beecham/NBC) 4. Celibidache/Berlin '45 (seriously) (alternates: Jochum/Berlin, Beinum/Concertgebouw) Haydn Variations: Fischer/Budapest also: Friedrich Gulda/Joe Zawinul (comes along with amazing improvisation at the beginning) Serenades: I still haven't done a deep dive. Not for lack of love but there's so much Brahms to listen to in depth. Academic Festival: Eschenbach/Houston Tragic Overture: Giulini/Philharmonia
This is a wonderful ideal cycle, I don’t think I’d change a thing. Stokowski’s Brahms 4 on RCA blew me away the first time I heard it. Fast enough to melt your face off at times, and incredibly exciting but, as you said, without too many of the indulgent Stokowskiisms (although I usually enjoy those indulgences). It’s a totally unique interpretation, and an extremely satisfying one for those of us who can find Brahms 4 stultifying under the wrong baton.
1: Stokowski, London Symphony (1974) The 92-year-old Stokowski was not lacking any of his powers. 2: Beecham, Royal Philharmonic (1956 - mono) Live. Beecham shouts at the orchestra in the finale, and the audience applauds prematurely. But the excitement is contagious. 3: Jochum, London Philharmonic (1977). Jochum accomplished what other great conductors failed to do - record a convincing Third. 4: Kleiber, Vienna Philharmonic Serenade No.1: Kertesz, London Symphony Serenade No.2: Mackerras, Scottish Chamber Haydn Variations: Abbado, Berlin Philharmonic Academic Overture: Weingartner, London Symphony (1940 - mono) Brisk, but perfectly paced, like all of his Brahms. Tragic Overture: Klemperer, Philharmonia. This grave piece suits Klemperer's slow pace.
I would choose Klemperer for the 1st. Szell for the 2nd. Walter in mono for the 3rd. Bohm for the 4th. Szell for the Haydn Variations and the two "overtures." (sorry, I know there's supposed to be a different conductor for each piece but I love his Brahms). Abbado for the 1st serenade. Bernstein (CBS) for the 2nd serenade.
Hi Dave, a superb selection again! Let me add mine: Symphony No 1: A tie between the Karl Böhm/BPO (DG 1959) and my latest purchase Sir Adrian Boult/LPO (EMI 1973) No 2: Tie again between Karel Ancerl/Czech PO (Supraphon) and Bruno Walter/Columbia SO (CBS/Sony) No 3: Szell/Cleveland O (CBS/Sony) No 4: Herbert Blomstedt/Gewandhausorchester (Decca) Haydn Variations: Agreed on Jochum/London SO (DG) Serenades: The jury is still out here Academic Festival Overture: Solti/Chicago SO (Decca) Tragic Overture: no decision yet
I loved the Adrian Boult cycle. I remember Dave referred to it as a snooze (compared to Jochum's LPO). No 4: Herbert Blomstedt/Gewandhausorchester (Decca) - Fantastic! Heads up for the new No. 1 and Tragic Overture from Herbert Blomstedt and the Gewandhausorchester on Pentatone - it is simply F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C - sorry for my limited use of adjectives. Literally I've been waiting almost 40 years for this recording. Finally, Maestro Blomstedt in his Indian summer completes a Brahms cycle. Is there anyone else you would want to hear a new Brahms cycle nowadays than these wonderful artists?
So happy to see the Ancerl /Supraphon Brahms 2 mentioned. That's the recording I learnt the work from, on audiocassette . I remember a light, transparent string sound. Then I heard the Walter /Columbia SO ( coupled with the 3rd symphony ) and that has been my go to version since then.
These IDEAL picks are hitting my classical music collecting obsession buttons. Just when I thought I had the best versions!!! Now I'm hunting down these suggestions like wild animals. Always on the prowl...
I think that Bernstein & the Vienna phil is also pretty slow and tragic in the Tragic Overture! One of the most beautiful and characterful performances that I know.
As always a talk with plenty of brio. The only deviations in my list involve Monteux in the 2nd with the Vienna Philharmonic, which I prefer to his other recorded performances and Sanderling in the 4th with the Staatskapelle Dresden (and Reiner with the Royal Philharmonic as an also-ran.)
Dear Dave, I respect your selection, but in the symphonies my ideal list is this: 1.- Jascha Horenstein-Baden Baden in VOX; 2.- Antal Dorati-Minneapolis in Newton label; 3.- Marin Alsop-London Philharmonic, NAXOS (10/10 in Classicstoday), and 4.- Yevgeny Svetlanov- URSS Academy Symphony Orch, in OLYMPIA, and also Hans Schmidt Isserstedt-NDR, in a similar nivel. best wishes! Oscar Olavarría, from Chile South America
Another Brahms 4th I have especially enjoyed comes from the cycle by Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orch. he recorded for CBS in the late 60's. It was included in the Ormandy volume of the "Great Conductors of the 20th Century" by IMG Artists and more recently as part of the set reissued by Japanese Sony. Brahms is often accused of muddy orchestration but this well-recorded performance is one that allows you to bask in the sheer beauty of the orchestral sonorities, for example where the fabulous Philadelphia solo winds or brass choir are highlighted in the Passacaglia movement.
Symphony 1: Ormandy and Philadelphia (those strings!). Symphony 2: Szell and Cleveland (those rhythms!). Symphony 3: Dohnanyi and Cleveland (the ways he ends it!). Symphony 4: Munch and Boston (he makes that German tango swing!). Serenade 1: Haitink and Concertgebouw (most beautiful playing you'll ever hear!). Serenade 2: Boult and London Philharmonic (talk about an old guy who still had it!). Haydn Variations: Walter and Columbia Symphony (because all of Walter's Brahms is great!). Tragic Overture: Solti and Chicago (the winds!). Academic Festival Overture: Bernstein and NYPO (why argue?).
I remember my younger self having a distaste for his thicc orchestration. Now I got used to it but still find symphonies 1 snd 4 fatiguing due to long held tension not being relieved much
If I were to pick a symphony that creates millions of different opinions on the best recording, Brahms' 4th comes to my mind. It seems like people have so many different conception over this symphony. My favorite 4th (for now) is Dohnanyi with Cleveland. I guess I tend to dislike the approach that makes this piece too exciting, too passionate, or too heavy. I appreciate less romantic and more natural, classical approach, for my image of the piece is more like a passionate monologue by an extremely introvert person. That said, I sometimes enjoy the opposite approach as well when the mood is right. XD My list would be: 1) Munch/OP 2) Monteux/LSO 3) Walter/CSO 4) Dohnanyi/CO Tragic Overture - Jochum/LPO Academic Overture - Bernstein/NYP Serenade1 - Haitink/Concertgebouworkest - but I tried Belohlavek today and this may be my new fav! Serenade2 - Mackerras Haydn Var. - Szell/CO
Coincidentally, I bought the Jochum disc last week - for the Elgar primarily, but the Brahms is just as great and makes an ideal coupling. Indeed, the two sets of variations go so well together that I'm surprised they're not paired more often; as far as I can tell, there's only Jochum and Monteux who have done it.
Years ago my mother's boss gave me the Bruno Walter recording of no. 2 and I suspectred it was sentimentality that bound me to it for all these years. But you agreed with me! How reaffirming is that?
I was wondering why Carlos Kleiber's recording of Brahms fourth with the Wiener Philharmoniker isn't mentioned. To me his recording sounds very inspired, electrifying even, perhaps.
@@DavesClassicalGuide It’s great to come back to a video I’ve already watched. Now, I know you don’t care(!) but I agree with not including the Kleiber 4th. It’s many a critic’s choice and favourite of the public but I’ve heard numerous superior recordings. There is usually a good reason for mass agreement with recordings, but I’ve never quite understood this one other than it’s Kleiber who recorded very little. It’s very good but I’d rather go back to Barenboim with the CSO for instance.
Ok, here goes, but my rule is still not just no duplication but no common choices with the David Hurwitz list: 1. Levine Chicago (for the timpani) 2. Monteux LSO (for an especially exciting finale) 3. Reiner Chicago 4 Markevitch Lamoureux (for those trombones in the finale, but could have gone with Toscanini Philharmonia here, too. Also could have been Kempe and the BBC Symphony on BBC Legends). Haydn Variations Toscanini NYPO (1936) (hard to pick a favourite; a lot of great choices, but Toscanini gets it because he got bumped from the Symphonies) Serenade 1 Mackerras (wanted to pick Kertesz for both, or Toscanini, or Abbado, but rules are rules) Serenade 2 Kertesz (see Serenade 1) Academic Festival Overture Abaddo BPO (never heard better, but also never heard one that made me entirely happy, either. Haven't heard Bernstein's NYPO one yet, so life may still hold some surprises) Tragic Overture Szell Cleveland (who else?) Love the Brahms 4th and have to confess that I've never heard the Stokowski (although I have that RCA Stereo box!). Thanks for the tip, Dave. Rockets to the top of my next listening list.
Any comments regarding the Edmund Rubbra transcription of the Handel-variations for full orchestra? I would like to humbly suggest it should receive more performances...
RB Melk Igor, please forgive me for inserting myself into this discussion. First off, I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Hurwitz’s assessment that this transcription is very problematic. However, if you are as big of a fan of the Handel Variations as I am (which is almost as big of a fan of the Schumann Variations, Op.9, as I am, which, heartbreakingly, are rarely performed by pianists, and, as far as I know, have not been transcribed for orchestra), then it is worth a listen so long as the listener understands that the orchestration will sound nothing like how Brahms would likely have orchestrated the piece should he have chosen to. Unfortunately, the difficulties do not end there: I would describe the orchestral texture as strident, hollow, and gray. This texture works very well for Rubbra’s original orchestral pieces, and the Viola Concerto and the Sixth Symphony are great examples of how well it works. There are other transcriptions of Brahms’ works that are more successful, such as Schoenberg’s transcription of his Piano Quartet, Op.25 and Berio’s transcription of his two clarinets sonatas Op.120. Rubbra’s orchestration of Brahms has the same problem as Julius Rontgen’s original orchestral music, i.e., the orchestration does not match his own music. Perhaps, in the future, there will be more successful transcriptions of the Handel Variations (and, maybe by some miracle, a successful orchestration of the Op.9).
Dear Mr Hurwitz I enjoyed very much your thoughts on Brahms best orchestral recordings. As a matter of fact, I’m listening at this precise moment to Tragic Ouverture, with Karel Ančerl: astonishing! Don’t you have comments on Brahms choral works? I didn’t find any on my searches 😕 and I’d love to know which recordings are on your heart for Requiem, the wonderful Nänie and Alto Rhapsody! Many thanks to you, with great respect!
@David Hurwitz - First of all excellent video - as always, appreciate that you take the time to do this. In these times, is fantastic to look forward to then. You mentioned in your video the turntables of the past. Well. It is not the past! There is a vinyl revival going on and would love to hear your opinion of it. In fact there is an irony going on here. One of my daughters saw me watching one of your videos. Her comment - "oh he is old fashioned like you Dad, he listens to CDs!" - What an irony isn't it? The newer technology is considered old fashioned. Let me give you my take on it. I am full on with the vinyl revival. I have a decent turntable that I use to listen to Rock and Jazz. But not classical.Why? Well, I have tried but for whatever reason, what you can ignore or don't notice in Rock or Jazz, is unbearable with Classical. Little ticks and pops don't matter in other style. In Classical, they are painfully noticeable and loud. I have tried. Only the best pressings will do. And that is just too much work (and money). I love vinyl - for Rock and Jazz. For Classical, digital is still the best option. IMHO. Wonder what is your take?
@@DavesClassicalGuide haha! Succinct! :D - I was hoping for a video but I guess for you the issue is simple! Thanks for taking the time to read my comment and reply.
Ideal Brahms cycle: 1 - munch and BSO; 2 - Steinberg - Pittsburgh; 3 - Walter and Columbia; 4 - Reiner and Royal Philharmonic (preferable to Kleiber, I think). How would you compare the 4th between Reiner and Kleiber?
For me the best cycles are too many. We are lucky. Jochum emi, haitink black box, wand black box, Walter stereo, Klemperer, Svetlanov on Melodya, Mackerras with smaller orchestra. For individuals: 1 - Furtwangler hamburg 48; Van Beinum stereo -- really bring out the structure 4 - Bernstein sony; reiner chesky -- really keep the work flowing and tumultuous. For me the first serenade and first piano concerto started out as symphonies and I wish Brahms had completed them as that. I have not heard a performance of the first serenade that treats it as what it should have been......although Haitink is quite fine.
My Brahms symhponies are probably these 1 - Ančerl, Czech Phil. 2 - Karajan, Berlin (1978) 3 - Levine, Chicago 4 - Kleiber, Vienna (IMO it must be Kleiber but have to listen to Stokowski)
I think 3rd symphony has a great record by Furtwangler and on the 4th I liked Bernstein softness, But I loved what Jochum did... the heaviness of the first notes is what I wanted.
Gosh, this is tough! #1 Dohnanyi/Cleveland #2 Montaux/ LSO #3 Walter/ Columbia SO #4 Levine/ Chicago (more "youthful" than the Vienna remake...fabulous tympani in the third movement). Haydn Variations. Toscanini/ NYP. Not as much of a sonic compromise as you might think, in the Pristine Audio version. Szell if you insist on stereo. Tragic Overture. Klemperer Academic Festival Overture. Bernstein/ NYP Serenade 1. Brusilow/Chamber Orch of Philadelphia. If you can find it, Grab it! Serenade 2. Kertesz/LSO
The Brusilow interpretation of Serenade 1 is indeed fabulous. Was turned on to it through the hard-to-find book "The Music of Johannes Brahms" by Bernard Jacobson, which is a book filled with deep and marvelous insights into exactly HOW Brahms's compositions engage the listener's imagination and the intellect so well.
Dave, greetings from the Penal Colonies. Thanks for your latest instalment. This, I cannot resist. Here are my nominees: Brahms 1 - Karajan DG live in Tokyo 1988 Brahms 2 - Monteux Brahms 3 - Bruno Walter Brahms 4 - Furtwängler 1943. A bat out of Hell. Serenade 1 - Kertesz Serenade 2 - Abbado Academic Festival Overture - Szell Tragic Overture - Ancerl Variations - Ormandy. B.
@@mariocorreatascon8311 Richard Osborne rightly said that Karajan's B1s in the last decade of his life were a highlight of the Eighties. Equally I could have nominated the London performance of the same vintage. Each to his own.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Dave, respectfully, if we denigrate Furtwangler's accomplishments in Brahms per se - and that of course is your sovereign right (as it is my right to adore it) - I wonder where that leaves his legacy as you see it. I don't overly rate his Bruckner. There is his Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert and Schumann to consider. Does he have a claim to greatness in your eyes? Best wishes, B
@@bernardohanlon3498 Does he have a claim to greatness? Sure. He was admired and respected by too many people to challenge that. Do the recordings support that claim? Some do and some don't. The problem is that 90% of them represent unauthorized airchecks that he probably never would have approved, so we have no way of knowing what he would have felt most representative of his art, and that's the problem I have in evaluating his legacy.
I know this is going to be frowned upon but I like the last recording (late eighties digital on DG) of the Brahms symphonies, etc. by Karajan and the Berlin Philh. I know it has received bad reviews but I much prefer them to any others I have heard from anybody. Would love to hear your ideas on these Brahms/Karajan works. Thanks Dave for your reviews. Love them all!
@@kend.6797 What would you put on a Halloween list? I'd have to pick the Allegro Agitato of Prokofiev's Third Symphony (Muti's recording with Philly). It sounds like it was born out of the depths of hell; and I mean that in the most complimentary of ways.
Dave, I was wondering if you'd be interested in doing a chat/"ideal" video on Brahms works for chorus such as the Requiem, Schicksalslied, Deutsche Volkslieder, Rinaldo, Marienlieder, Alto Rhapsody, Ellens Gesang II, Nänie, etc, etc?
Is the RCA Stoky Brahms 4 more exciting than his live BBC Proms Brahms 4 recorded on May 4, 1974? The live Proms performance is thrilling - I have it on the BBC Radio Classics label. Do you know it, David? If so, how does it compare to the RCA studio performance?
When you mention the beginning of the Brahms 1st in Klemperer's reading, it is of course brilliant, but is not the beginning of Abbado's recording somehow even more tragic and doom-filled than Klemperer's? Maybe I just imprinted on that recording, but I think Abbado is utterly brilliant in that symphony.
Dave: This is the second opportunity in your videos when you've passed over the "legendary" Carlos Kleiber cds...of course I'm referring to his Beethoven 5/7 and his Brahms 4...To be clear I'm not cheerleading for these cds, but I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping that you will share your thoughts about the Carlos Kleiber mystique and his output...Thanks...and I really appreciate and enjoy your videos!
I find the Kleiber recordings slightly overrated. Not only that, after having to hear from everyone under the sun for the past 4 decades how good they are, it is refreshing to hear about other recordings instead. Why go with a safe pick everytime?
I agree. What's the big deal about him? He had a mystique that to me is not supported by the actual sound of his recordings, although most are very good. They just wouldn't be my top picks, and I was brainwashed into thinking that they should be.
Thanks for the video Dave. For me the best and most idiomatic performance of the Tragic overture will be Szell and Cleveland. They play it like their lives depended on it, like a hurricane storm coming at you. Just listening to the Ancerl and it’s a stunner! Thanks for the recommendation, although I still think the Szell is superior :)
I’m curious to know your process of putting these Ideal and Best videos together. With so many recordings to go through for a single video how do you do it? The pace of these videos is pretty quick (several/day) and then a 30 minute chat. Do you listen to 100 Beethoven 5ths? Are you speaking extemporaneously or do you have talking notes? All in all these are enjoyable and entertaining.
My list: #1: GiulinI/Los Angeles Philharmonic (DG); What a performance! Ditto for the LA #2 from the same series, and both are beyond superior to the late Vienna remakes or earlier EMI versions. I also have a sentimental fondness for Wand/Chicago Symphony (Live, RCA) which I think is a terrific disc. #2: Monteux/London Symphony (Philips, now Decca/Eloquence): I love the NYPO Walter, which is simply exciting as you can get, but for the kind of loving warmth (this ironically was supposed to be a Bruno Walter thing at all times) that imbues so many performances of this work, perhaps none was more authentic a sound than Monteux's. #3: Levine/Chicago Symphony (RCA); It's sobering to think that one of the last century's Brahms conductors is such an unsavory character. The whole RCA cycle is pretty great, but should the behavior be too gross to consider the artist, I suggest Solti (Decca) with the same orchestra or Abbado/Berlin Philharmonic (DG). #4: Kleiber/Vienna Philharmonic (DG); Perhaps he doesn't have the strongest musical personality on the planet, but there's a certain freshness to this beautifully played and recorded performance that cannot be overlooked. Certainly he's no Stokowski. Historical buffs should check out Sabata/Berlin Philharmonic (DG) or Toscanini/Philharmonia (Testament, and now on Warner as well). Haydn Variations: Ormandy/Philadelphia (RCA Japan/ArkivCD); No, I'm not kidding. Coupled with a very brisk Bruckner 7--already mentioned by DH in his Bruckner 7 review--Brahms was supposedly one of Ormandy's favorite composers. Who knew? The orchestra is magnificent, and both Ormandy and the RCA recording team are at their most compelling given the date. Tragic Overture: Walter/Columbia Symphony (Sony Classical); A classic performance that shows Walter could be as fiery as anyone. The whole cycle is great. Academic Festival: Jochum/London Philharmonic (EMI/Warner); Because I have to put him somewhere. Serenade #1: and #2: My choices are the same as Dave here, though I'd also consider Haitink/Concertgebouw (Decca) or Masur/Leipzig (Eloquence) for one or the other.
I would like to add something nobody has mentioned here. It is a bit out of subject (recordings). For me No. 1 Brahms is a live performance by K. Böhm + VPO in Tokyo in 1975 (it is here on RUclips!!). I know you don´t like Böhm (too stiff), but his live recordings are just marvelous. Strongly recommend this - just give it a try. I guarantee you will like it!
Thank you! The Walter/NY 2nd was a revelation to me. His Finale was so exciting, I leapt out of my chair! A performance for the ages.
Thanks, David, for the talk. Here is my list:
Symph. 1 - Karajan (Tokyo 1988)
Symph. 2 - Maazel/Cleveland Orch.
Symph. 3 - Abbado/Berliner Philharmoniker
Symph. 4 - Celibidache (Tokyo 1986)
Haydn var. - Abbado/Berliner Philharmoniker
Academic O - Klemperer
Tragic O - Maazel/Cleveland
Serenade 1 - Bernstein/NYPO
Serenade 2 - Chailly
At last somebody else who appreciates the Tokyo B1!
Totally agree with you on the Maazel Brahms 2nd, Magnus. Intonation-wise, the D-major chord at the end of the 4th from the trombones is the absolute BEST!
That Stokowski #4 recording is fantastic!! I have long considered it my favorite. The first time I heard this I actually was frightened by some sections - like the end of the 1st movement- because Stokowski really hammers home the excitement and drama.
What's interesting is that the late career Brahms 2nd that Stokowski recorded is also one of my favorites. He really knew what he was doing once he moved past the need to tinker with things.
Very true!
@@DavesClassicalGuide I listened to the Stokowski Brahms 2nd tonight just because it had been a while since I listened to it. Unreal. This was one of his last recordings and thank god he made this. This thing really is a gift from god.
@@kend.6797 I agree!
Ha... I had a similar experience the first time I heard the Bruckner Third (my first ever Bruckner) when I was in music school. When the brass choirs played they soared up to the most impossibly high range, without shrill tone or bad intonation. I thought I’d discovered a whole new world of classical brass music. Then I realized I was playing it at 45 even though it was a 36 record.
I have a fond attachment to the Tragic Overture as I remember it was one of the early pieces I listened to when I was first delving into classical music as a kid - oh i could kick myself as I'm trying to remember the conductor - i could be wrong but maybe Horenstein - anyway it was one of those pieces that sold me on the whole genre - the music was so darn exciting (even the slow mysterious parts in their own way !) - and yet at the same time it had moments full of such warm lyricism and nobility that even as a kid did not fail to move my young soul
Symphony 1: Giulini with LA Phil (DG)
Symphony 2: Dohnanyi (Teldec)
Symphony 3: Klemperer (EMI)
Symphony 4: Munch (RCA)
Haydn Variations: I. Fischer (Channel Classics)
Academic Festival Overture: Bernstein (Sony)
Tragic Overture: Jochum (EMI)
Serenade 1: Kertesz (Decca)
Serenade 2: Mackerras (Telarc)
Different conductors for each piece is really tough, but here goes:
Symphony 1: Christoph Eschenbach, Houston Symphony
Symphony 2: Max Fiedler, Berlin Philharmonic
Symphony 3: Paavo Jarvi, Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen
Symphony 4: Whun Myung Chung, Czech Philharmonic
Haydn Variations: Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia
Academic Festival Overture: Dimitri Mitropoulos, New York Philharmonic
Tragic Overture: Eugen Jochum, London Philharmonic
Serenade 1: Charles Mackerras, Scottish Chamber Orchestra
Serenade 2: Kurt Masur, Leipzig Gewandhaus (I would have gone with Mackerras here, too, but I wanted to play by the rules)
I know films don't count, but for a truly "granitic" opening of the 1st, check out the Karajan film of the 1st from the 70s. His films are usually a disaster, for many reasons, but the first chord in the film is fabulous. It's as if all music comes right out of the first tympani stroke. Crack of Doom, indeed. Of all his Brahms, I thing the '64 4th is the best. The long crescendo in the slow movement is so great. The finale is insistent, unforgiving, and apocalyptic.
My ideal Brahms cycle:
1) Böhm & Bavarian Radio SO
2) Furtwängler & BPO (Warner)
3) Thielemann & SKD
4) Karajan (1988)
S1) Belohlavek
S2) Smetaček
HV) Solti
AO) Bernstein & VPO
TO) Giulini & Philharmonia Orchestra
I'm a big fan of the first serenade and Haitink/RCO used to be my personal favourite version untill I came across a certain Spering/Capella Augustina version (available in youtube btw). Just can't get enough of it. What a gem. Fresh pastoral mood throughout, It feels just right balanced to me, contrasting nicely with the noble Haitink version which I still listen too. Just wanted to share that.
OK, I'll play along. Some old faves, some sentimental choices, some new discoveries. 1. Cleveland/Szell. Picks me up by the scruff of the neck in bar one and doesn't let me down to the end. And places symphony in Beethoven lineage more than most. 2. Czech PO/Ančerl. Great winds, super exciting, especially slow movement. 3. Chicago/Reiner. My first Brahms symphony ever, and no reason to cast it aside. 4. Vienna PO/Kleiber. Unlike our genial host, I find Kleiber's thorough goings-over compelling and gripping. Serenade 1: London SO/Kértesz. Nothing not to love. Serenade No. 2: NYP/Bernstein. Great to hear our old wind friends (Baker, Drucker, Gomberg, et al.) from LB's Young People's Concerts in such prominent roles. Academic: NYP/Walter. A thriller. Tragic: Philharmonia/Klemperer. A block of granite that moves, crushing everything in its path. Haydn Variations: SWR Baden-Baden & Freiburg/Gielen. Just plain fun. Do I get to go on to the lightning round now?
Dorati’s recordings of 1 and 4 on Mercury with the LSO are well worth a listen if you like lean mean Brahms with some snarl and bite. There are some splendid contrabassoon low Cs in the first movement of no. 1.
I have recently discovered your reviews and have been enjoying them very much. Thank you for introducing me to some of the work of Karel Ancerl. I just listened to his recording of Tragic Overture and was very pleased with it. I also listened to a recording I grew up with but haven't heard in many years - the old Toscanini recording with the NBC. I think the old man holds his own with Ancerl. It was an even more committed and gripping performance than I remembered, and the tragic drama never sagged. Of course the fidelity was not as good as the Ancerl recording, but it was nice hearing such fine performances of this work.
Brahms I: Giulini, LAPO - DG
Brahms II: Bernstein - SONY (a crystal clear rendition of my favourite Brahms Symphony and probably a very underrated performance) / Abbado's interpretation is also fantastic (beautiful horns in the adagio!)
Brahms III: Karajan, VPO - DECCA! The '64 on DG is also first rate, but it's not Vienna.. Still, give me any of these two Karajan interpretation
Brahms IV: Solti! - DECCA ('They played like their lives depended on it')
The Serenades: Mackerras - Telarc
Hungarian Dances: Fischer, BFO - Philips
Violin Concerto: Oistrakh, Szell - Warner (The definition of virtuosity)
A kindred spirit in exploring different performances. Great music always more. to discover. I love the idea that you mention of discovering the music as if we've never heard it. How did the first audience respond? We don't know the key, the meter, the orchesteation.
What surprises await each experience.
How does the composer create momentum, phrase direction.?
Masks, etc. and smart voting could lead to live concerts again. Regards from Santa Barbara.
David and fellow listeners: Does anyone know the best way to obtain the Jochum Haydn Variations recording from this video on CD? On Amazon, I see that the Japanese import of the album is all that's available (complete with liner notes in Japanese, which are of little to no help to me, given that I don't know any Japanese). I also see that the album is in Volume 1 of Jochum's Complete Deutsche Grammophon Recordings box set, which I am very interested in purchasing given David's general bullishness on Jochum, but I have searched for it in multiple places and have yet to find any trace of it available new, used, or at all. Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance for your help, and my belated thanks to you, David, for such a long string of informative and entertaining videos! I am watching them with great interest, and spending too much (but never enough) money trying to keep up with all your recommendations. You've turned me onto some gems so far!
1. Furtwangler/Hamburg '51 (alternates: Munch/Paris, Solti/Chicago)
2. Abbado/Berlin (live) (alternates: Klemperer/Philharmonia, Szell/Cleveland)
3. Walter/Columbia (was sure you'd pick it) (alternates: Wand/NDR, Beecham/NBC)
4. Celibidache/Berlin '45 (seriously) (alternates: Jochum/Berlin, Beinum/Concertgebouw)
Haydn Variations: Fischer/Budapest
also: Friedrich Gulda/Joe Zawinul (comes along with amazing improvisation at the beginning)
Serenades: I still haven't done a deep dive. Not for lack of love but there's so much Brahms to listen to in depth.
Academic Festival: Eschenbach/Houston
Tragic Overture: Giulini/Philharmonia
That Beecham NBC recording is in such horrid sound but good god is it an exciting performance, complete with Beecham's grunts and bellows.
This is a wonderful ideal cycle, I don’t think I’d change a thing. Stokowski’s Brahms 4 on RCA blew me away the first time I heard it. Fast enough to melt your face off at times, and incredibly exciting but, as you said, without too many of the indulgent Stokowskiisms (although I usually enjoy those indulgences). It’s a totally unique interpretation, and an extremely satisfying one for those of us who can find Brahms 4 stultifying under the wrong baton.
1: Stokowski, London Symphony (1974) The 92-year-old Stokowski was not lacking any of his powers.
2: Beecham, Royal Philharmonic (1956 - mono) Live. Beecham shouts at the orchestra in the finale, and the audience applauds prematurely. But the excitement is contagious.
3: Jochum, London Philharmonic (1977). Jochum accomplished what other great conductors failed to do - record a convincing Third.
4: Kleiber, Vienna Philharmonic
Serenade No.1: Kertesz, London Symphony
Serenade No.2: Mackerras, Scottish Chamber
Haydn Variations: Abbado, Berlin Philharmonic
Academic Overture: Weingartner, London Symphony (1940 - mono) Brisk, but perfectly paced, like all of his Brahms.
Tragic Overture: Klemperer, Philharmonia. This grave piece suits Klemperer's slow pace.
I would choose Klemperer for the 1st. Szell for the 2nd. Walter in mono for the 3rd. Bohm for the 4th. Szell for the Haydn Variations and the two "overtures." (sorry, I know there's supposed to be a different conductor for each piece but I love his Brahms). Abbado for the 1st serenade. Bernstein (CBS) for the 2nd serenade.
Hi Dave, a superb selection again! Let me add mine:
Symphony No 1: A tie between the Karl Böhm/BPO (DG 1959) and my latest purchase Sir Adrian Boult/LPO (EMI 1973)
No 2: Tie again between Karel Ancerl/Czech PO (Supraphon) and Bruno Walter/Columbia SO (CBS/Sony)
No 3: Szell/Cleveland O (CBS/Sony)
No 4: Herbert Blomstedt/Gewandhausorchester (Decca)
Haydn Variations: Agreed on Jochum/London SO (DG)
Serenades: The jury is still out here
Academic Festival Overture: Solti/Chicago SO (Decca)
Tragic Overture: no decision yet
I loved the Adrian Boult cycle. I remember Dave referred to it as a snooze (compared to Jochum's LPO). No 4: Herbert Blomstedt/Gewandhausorchester (Decca) - Fantastic! Heads up for the new No. 1 and Tragic Overture from Herbert Blomstedt and the Gewandhausorchester on Pentatone - it is simply F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C - sorry for my limited use of adjectives. Literally I've been waiting almost 40 years for this recording. Finally, Maestro Blomstedt in his Indian summer completes a Brahms cycle. Is there anyone else you would want to hear a new Brahms cycle nowadays than these wonderful artists?
So happy to see the Ancerl /Supraphon Brahms 2 mentioned. That's the recording I learnt the work from, on audiocassette . I remember a light, transparent string sound. Then I heard the Walter /Columbia SO ( coupled with the 3rd symphony ) and that has been my go to version since then.
Just downloaded and listened to the Jochum Haydn and Elgar Variations. WOW! Merci!
Glad you liked it!
These IDEAL picks are hitting my classical music collecting obsession buttons. Just when I thought I had the best versions!!! Now I'm hunting down these suggestions like wild animals. Always on the prowl...
Woof!
I think that Bernstein & the Vienna phil is also pretty slow and tragic in the Tragic Overture! One of the most beautiful and characterful performances that I know.
I also think that I have been spoiled by Celibidache in the Haydn Variations...
As always a talk with plenty of brio. The only deviations in my list involve Monteux in the 2nd with the Vienna Philharmonic, which I prefer to his other recorded performances and Sanderling in the 4th with the Staatskapelle Dresden (and Reiner with the Royal Philharmonic as an also-ran.)
Tengo una sola duda. ¿Cual es la versión ideal de la segunda sinfonía pero en estéreo?. Gracias
Symphony No. 1 - Ivan Fischer / Budapest Festival Orchestra (Channel Classics)
Symphony No. 2 -- Marek Janowski / Pittsburgh Symphony (PentaTone)
Symphony No. 3 -- Marin Alsop / London Philharmonic (Naxos)
Symphony No. 4 -- James Levine / Chicago Symphony (RCA)
Academic Festival Overture - Otto Klemperer / Philharmonia (EMI)
Haydn Variations -- George Szell / Cleveland (Sony)
Tragic Overture - Karl Böhm / Vienna Philharmonic (DG)
Serenade No. 1 -- Dirk Joeres / Westdeutsche Sinfonia (Alto)
Serenade No. 2 -- Jaime Martin / Gävle Symphony (Ondine)
Dear Dave, I respect your selection, but in the symphonies my ideal list is this: 1.- Jascha Horenstein-Baden Baden in VOX; 2.- Antal Dorati-Minneapolis in Newton label; 3.- Marin Alsop-London Philharmonic, NAXOS (10/10 in Classicstoday), and 4.- Yevgeny Svetlanov- URSS Academy Symphony Orch, in OLYMPIA, and also Hans Schmidt Isserstedt-NDR, in a similar nivel. best wishes! Oscar Olavarría, from Chile South America
What do you think about Skrowaczewski/Halle Orchestra for the 4th? I keep going back to that one, especially for the finale.
Another Brahms 4th I have especially enjoyed comes from the cycle by Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orch. he recorded for CBS in the late 60's. It was included in the Ormandy volume of the "Great Conductors of the 20th Century" by IMG Artists and more recently as part of the set reissued by Japanese Sony. Brahms is often accused of muddy orchestration but this well-recorded performance is one that allows you to bask in the sheer beauty of the orchestral sonorities, for example where the fabulous Philadelphia solo winds or brass choir are highlighted in the Passacaglia movement.
Symphony 1: Ormandy and Philadelphia (those strings!). Symphony 2: Szell and Cleveland (those rhythms!). Symphony 3: Dohnanyi and Cleveland (the ways he ends it!). Symphony 4: Munch and Boston (he makes that German tango swing!). Serenade 1: Haitink and Concertgebouw (most beautiful playing you'll ever hear!). Serenade 2: Boult and London Philharmonic (talk about an old guy who still had it!). Haydn Variations: Walter and Columbia Symphony (because all of Walter's Brahms is great!). Tragic Overture: Solti and Chicago (the winds!). Academic Festival Overture: Bernstein and NYPO (why argue?).
Symphony 1: Klemperer (Warner)
Symphony 2: Walter (Sony-Mono)
Symphony 3: Wand (RCA)
Symphony 4: Stokowski (RCA)
I remember my younger self having a distaste for his thicc orchestration. Now I got used to it but still find symphonies 1 snd 4 fatiguing due to long held tension not being relieved much
If I were to pick a symphony that creates millions of different opinions on the best recording, Brahms' 4th comes to my mind. It seems like people have so many different conception over this symphony. My favorite 4th (for now) is Dohnanyi with Cleveland. I guess I tend to dislike the approach that makes this piece too exciting, too passionate, or too heavy. I appreciate less romantic and more natural, classical approach, for my image of the piece is more like a passionate monologue by an extremely introvert person. That said, I sometimes enjoy the opposite approach as well when the mood is right. XD My list would be:
1) Munch/OP
2) Monteux/LSO
3) Walter/CSO
4) Dohnanyi/CO
Tragic Overture - Jochum/LPO
Academic Overture - Bernstein/NYP
Serenade1 - Haitink/Concertgebouworkest - but I tried Belohlavek today and this may be my new fav!
Serenade2 - Mackerras
Haydn Var. - Szell/CO
Coincidentally, I bought the Jochum disc last week - for the Elgar primarily, but the Brahms is just as great and makes an ideal coupling. Indeed, the two sets of variations go so well together that I'm surprised they're not paired more often; as far as I can tell, there's only Jochum and Monteux who have done it.
@David Hurwitz What do you think of Dohnanyi's 2nd cycle with the Philharmonia?
Consistent, similar, but not as good as with Cleveland.
Years ago my mother's boss gave me the Bruno Walter recording of no. 2 and I suspectred it was sentimentality that bound me to it for all these years. But you agreed with me! How reaffirming is that?
I was wondering why Carlos Kleiber's recording of Brahms fourth with the Wiener Philharmoniker isn't mentioned. To me his recording sounds very inspired, electrifying even, perhaps.
Maybe because I don't agree.
@@DavesClassicalGuide It’s great to come back to a video I’ve already watched. Now, I know you don’t care(!) but I agree with not including the Kleiber 4th. It’s many a critic’s choice and favourite of the public but I’ve heard numerous superior recordings.
There is usually a good reason for mass agreement with recordings, but I’ve never quite understood this one other than it’s Kleiber who recorded very little. It’s very good but I’d rather go back to Barenboim with the CSO for instance.
Ok, here goes, but my rule is still not just no duplication but no common choices with the David Hurwitz list:
1. Levine Chicago (for the timpani)
2. Monteux LSO (for an especially exciting finale)
3. Reiner Chicago
4 Markevitch Lamoureux (for those trombones in the finale, but could have gone with Toscanini Philharmonia here, too. Also could have been Kempe and the BBC Symphony on BBC Legends).
Haydn Variations Toscanini NYPO (1936) (hard to pick a favourite; a lot of great choices, but Toscanini gets it because he got bumped from the Symphonies)
Serenade 1 Mackerras (wanted to pick Kertesz for both, or Toscanini, or Abbado, but rules are rules)
Serenade 2 Kertesz (see Serenade 1)
Academic Festival Overture Abaddo BPO (never heard better, but also never heard one that made me entirely happy, either. Haven't heard Bernstein's NYPO one yet, so life may still hold some surprises)
Tragic Overture Szell Cleveland (who else?)
Love the Brahms 4th and have to confess that I've never heard the Stokowski (although I have that RCA Stereo box!). Thanks for the tip, Dave. Rockets to the top of my next listening list.
Any comments regarding the Edmund Rubbra transcription of the Handel-variations for full orchestra? I would like to humbly suggest it should receive more performances...
It's terrible--badly scored, dull, and characterless. Otherwise it's just fine.
@@DavesClassicalGuide : Other than that, eh?^^
RB Melk
Igor, please forgive me for inserting myself into this discussion. First off, I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Hurwitz’s assessment that this transcription is very problematic. However, if you are as big of a fan of the Handel Variations as I am (which is almost as big of a fan of the Schumann Variations, Op.9, as I am, which, heartbreakingly, are rarely performed by pianists, and, as far as I know, have not been transcribed for orchestra), then it is worth a listen so long as the listener understands that the orchestration will sound nothing like how Brahms would likely have orchestrated the piece should he have chosen to. Unfortunately, the difficulties do not end there: I would describe the orchestral texture as strident, hollow, and gray. This texture works very well for Rubbra’s original orchestral pieces, and the Viola Concerto and the Sixth Symphony are great examples of how well it works. There are other transcriptions of Brahms’ works that are more successful, such as Schoenberg’s transcription of his Piano Quartet, Op.25 and Berio’s transcription of his two clarinets sonatas Op.120. Rubbra’s orchestration of Brahms has the same problem as Julius Rontgen’s original orchestral music, i.e., the orchestration does not match his own music. Perhaps, in the future, there will be more successful transcriptions of the Handel Variations (and, maybe by some miracle, a successful orchestration of the Op.9).
For anybody’s interest I found a fantastic Brahms 4th by Paray & Detroit Symphony on RUclips. It’s in mono, but it’s a powerful performance
Dear Mr Hurwitz
I enjoyed very much your thoughts on Brahms best orchestral recordings. As a matter of fact, I’m listening at this precise moment to Tragic Ouverture, with Karel Ančerl: astonishing!
Don’t you have comments on Brahms choral works? I didn’t find any on my searches 😕 and I’d love to know which recordings are on your heart for Requiem, the wonderful Nänie and Alto Rhapsody!
Many thanks to you, with great respect!
Not yet, but they are coming.
@David Hurwitz - First of all excellent video - as always, appreciate that you take the time to do this. In these times, is fantastic to look forward to then. You mentioned in your video the turntables of the past. Well. It is not the past! There is a vinyl revival going on and would love to hear your opinion of it. In fact there is an irony going on here. One of my daughters saw me watching one of your videos. Her comment - "oh he is old fashioned like you Dad, he listens to CDs!" - What an irony isn't it? The newer technology is considered old fashioned. Let me give you my take on it. I am full on with the vinyl revival. I have a decent turntable that I use to listen to Rock and Jazz. But not classical.Why? Well, I have tried but for whatever reason, what you can ignore or don't notice in Rock or Jazz, is unbearable with Classical. Little ticks and pops don't matter in other style. In Classical, they are painfully noticeable and loud. I have tried. Only the best pressings will do. And that is just too much work (and money). I love vinyl - for Rock and Jazz. For Classical, digital is still the best option. IMHO. Wonder what is your take?
I detest vinyl, turntables, the whole mess. Ridiculous!
@@DavesClassicalGuide haha! Succinct! :D - I was hoping for a video but I guess for you the issue is simple! Thanks for taking the time to read my comment and reply.
@@victormartell5705 Of course!
Ideal Brahms cycle: 1 - munch and BSO; 2 - Steinberg - Pittsburgh; 3 - Walter and Columbia; 4 - Reiner and Royal Philharmonic (preferable to Kleiber, I think). How would you compare the 4th between Reiner and Kleiber?
Please check the comments. This really has been discussed already, for the most part.
For me the best cycles are too many. We are lucky. Jochum emi, haitink black box, wand black box, Walter stereo, Klemperer, Svetlanov on Melodya, Mackerras with smaller orchestra.
For individuals: 1 - Furtwangler hamburg 48; Van Beinum stereo -- really bring out the structure
4 - Bernstein sony; reiner chesky -- really keep the work flowing and tumultuous.
For me the first serenade and first piano concerto started out as symphonies and I wish Brahms had completed them as that. I have not heard a performance of the first serenade that treats it as what it should have been......although Haitink is quite fine.
My Brahms symhponies are probably these
1 - Ančerl, Czech Phil.
2 - Karajan, Berlin (1978)
3 - Levine, Chicago
4 - Kleiber, Vienna (IMO it must be Kleiber but have to listen to Stokowski)
Yey! I have both the Wand NDR 3rd and Stokowski,s 4 (Quadra disc)on Lp,s,good choices!
I think 3rd symphony has a great record by Furtwangler and on the 4th I liked Bernstein softness, But I loved what Jochum did... the heaviness of the first notes is what I wanted.
Gosh, this is tough!
#1 Dohnanyi/Cleveland
#2 Montaux/ LSO
#3 Walter/ Columbia SO
#4 Levine/ Chicago (more "youthful" than the Vienna remake...fabulous tympani in the third movement).
Haydn Variations. Toscanini/ NYP. Not as much of a sonic compromise as you might think, in the Pristine Audio version. Szell if you insist on stereo.
Tragic Overture. Klemperer
Academic Festival Overture. Bernstein/ NYP
Serenade 1. Brusilow/Chamber Orch of Philadelphia. If you can find it, Grab it!
Serenade 2. Kertesz/LSO
The Brusilow interpretation of Serenade 1 is indeed fabulous. Was turned on to it through the hard-to-find book "The Music of Johannes Brahms" by Bernard Jacobson, which is a book filled with deep and marvelous insights into exactly HOW Brahms's compositions engage the listener's imagination and the intellect so well.
Dave, greetings from the Penal Colonies. Thanks for your latest instalment. This, I cannot resist. Here are my nominees:
Brahms 1 - Karajan DG live in Tokyo 1988
Brahms 2 - Monteux
Brahms 3 - Bruno Walter
Brahms 4 - Furtwängler 1943. A bat out of Hell.
Serenade 1 - Kertesz
Serenade 2 - Abbado
Academic Festival Overture - Szell
Tragic Overture - Ancerl
Variations - Ormandy.
B.
No, the bat didn't quite make it out of hell in 1943, unfortunately. Glad you liked the Ancerl though. That's quite something.
Karajan!!? Nein! Danke!!! 🤢
@@mariocorreatascon8311 Richard Osborne rightly said that Karajan's B1s in the last decade of his life were a highlight of the Eighties. Equally I could have nominated the London performance of the same vintage. Each to his own.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Dave, respectfully, if we denigrate Furtwangler's accomplishments in Brahms per se - and that of course is your sovereign right (as it is my right to adore it) - I wonder where that leaves his legacy as you see it. I don't overly rate his Bruckner. There is his Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert and Schumann to consider. Does he have a claim to greatness in your eyes? Best wishes, B
@@bernardohanlon3498 Does he have a claim to greatness? Sure. He was admired and respected by too many people to challenge that. Do the recordings support that claim? Some do and some don't. The problem is that 90% of them represent unauthorized airchecks that he probably never would have approved, so we have no way of knowing what he would have felt most representative of his art, and that's the problem I have in evaluating his legacy.
I know this is going to be frowned upon but I like the last recording (late eighties digital on DG) of the Brahms symphonies, etc. by Karajan and the Berlin Philh. I know it has received bad reviews but I much prefer them to any others I have heard from anybody. Would love to hear your ideas on these Brahms/Karajan works. Thanks Dave for your reviews. Love them all!
I agree with you that they are very good.
Am really enjoying these "dream team" sets discussions, Dave! (maybe for April 1st you can put together a 'disaster team' set of some kind!)
I'm hoping he does a Halloween themed video this month (costume mandatory).
Good idea! But why wait?
@@kend.6797 Right - "The Brahms Symphony set of your NIGHTMARES!" :-)
@@jokinboken I was thinking more in terms of the best classical music for Halloween. Something like that.
@@kend.6797 What would you put on a Halloween list? I'd have to pick the Allegro Agitato of Prokofiev's Third Symphony (Muti's recording with Philly). It sounds like it was born out of the depths of hell; and I mean that in the most complimentary of ways.
Glad to hear praises for Stokowski's 4th. As you say it's a very unsung interpretation.
Of course agree with your choice... except the 4th
My choice for the 4th symphony: Carlos Kleiber... can you say something about this recording?
Yes. It's not terribly interesting. Sorry.
Also, curious.. you didn't like the Kleiber Beethoven, what was you view of his Brahms 4th?... that made a lot of 'greatest' lists in the day.
Not terribly interesting. Good, solid, but I find so much of what he does just a bit lacking in character.
Dave, I was wondering if you'd be interested in doing a chat/"ideal" video on Brahms works for chorus such as the Requiem, Schicksalslied, Deutsche Volkslieder, Rinaldo, Marienlieder, Alto Rhapsody, Ellens Gesang II, Nänie, etc, etc?
The Requiem has to be a talk all to itself--after that, we'll see.
Is the RCA Stoky Brahms 4 more exciting than his live BBC Proms Brahms 4 recorded on May 4, 1974? The live Proms performance is thrilling - I have it on the BBC Radio Classics label. Do you know it, David? If so, how does it compare to the RCA studio performance?
Very similar, but the studio version sounds better...
Hard to argue with that list, I need to check out that Stokowski Brahms 4th!
When you mention the beginning of the Brahms 1st in Klemperer's reading, it is of course brilliant, but is not the beginning of Abbado's recording somehow even more tragic and doom-filled than Klemperer's? Maybe I just imprinted on that recording, but I think Abbado is utterly brilliant in that symphony.
As you say, it is not (but it's a very fine performance).
Dave: This is the second opportunity in your videos when you've passed over the "legendary" Carlos Kleiber cds...of course I'm referring to his Beethoven 5/7 and his Brahms 4...To be clear I'm not cheerleading for these cds, but I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping that you will share your thoughts about the Carlos Kleiber mystique and his output...Thanks...and I really appreciate and enjoy your videos!
I find the Kleiber recordings slightly overrated. Not only that, after having to hear from everyone under the sun for the past 4 decades how good they are, it is refreshing to hear about other recordings instead. Why go with a safe pick everytime?
I agree. What's the big deal about him? He had a mystique that to me is not supported by the actual sound of his recordings, although most are very good. They just wouldn't be my top picks, and I was brainwashed into thinking that they should be.
And his Brahms 4has that really annoying mucking around in the third movement....
I heard a Classical radio announcer say the Haydn Variations had nothing to do with a Haydn theme. Is that so?
Yes. The theme is not by Haydn (we don't know who wrote it). It comes from a wind divertimento attributed to Haydn at the time.
Thanks for the video Dave.
For me the best and most idiomatic performance of the Tragic overture will be Szell and Cleveland. They play it like their lives depended on it, like a hurricane storm coming at you.
Just listening to the Ancerl and it’s a stunner! Thanks for the recommendation, although I still think the Szell is superior :)
Fair enough!
David Hurwitz
I know that this my seem a bit obsessive but I can’t stress enough how much we need a B8 review 🙏🏻
I’m curious to know your process of putting these Ideal and Best videos together. With so many recordings to go through for a single video how do you do it? The pace of these videos is pretty quick (several/day) and then a 30 minute chat. Do you listen to 100 Beethoven 5ths? Are you speaking extemporaneously or do you have talking notes? All in all these are enjoyable and entertaining.
You don't want me to give away my secrets, do you? I will say this: the production is the easy part. It's the preparation that takes all the time.
My list:
#1: GiulinI/Los Angeles Philharmonic (DG); What a performance! Ditto for the LA #2 from the same series, and both are beyond superior to the late Vienna remakes or earlier EMI versions. I also have a sentimental fondness for Wand/Chicago Symphony (Live, RCA) which I think is a terrific disc.
#2: Monteux/London Symphony (Philips, now Decca/Eloquence): I love the NYPO Walter, which is simply exciting as you can get, but for the kind of loving warmth (this ironically was supposed to be a Bruno Walter thing at all times) that imbues so many performances of this work, perhaps none was more authentic a sound than Monteux's.
#3: Levine/Chicago Symphony (RCA); It's sobering to think that one of the last century's Brahms conductors is such an unsavory character. The whole RCA cycle is pretty great, but should the behavior be too gross to consider the artist, I suggest Solti (Decca) with the same orchestra or Abbado/Berlin Philharmonic (DG).
#4: Kleiber/Vienna Philharmonic (DG); Perhaps he doesn't have the strongest musical personality on the planet, but there's a certain freshness to this beautifully played and recorded performance that cannot be overlooked. Certainly he's no Stokowski. Historical buffs should check out Sabata/Berlin Philharmonic (DG) or Toscanini/Philharmonia (Testament, and now on Warner as well).
Haydn Variations: Ormandy/Philadelphia (RCA Japan/ArkivCD); No, I'm not kidding. Coupled with a very brisk Bruckner 7--already mentioned by DH in his Bruckner 7 review--Brahms was supposedly one of Ormandy's favorite composers. Who knew? The orchestra is magnificent, and both Ormandy and the RCA recording team are at their most compelling given the date.
Tragic Overture: Walter/Columbia Symphony (Sony Classical); A classic performance that shows Walter could be as fiery as anyone. The whole cycle is great.
Academic Festival: Jochum/London Philharmonic (EMI/Warner); Because I have to put him somewhere.
Serenade #1: and #2: My choices are the same as Dave here, though I'd also consider Haitink/Concertgebouw (Decca) or Masur/Leipzig (Eloquence) for one or the other.
I would like to add something nobody has mentioned here. It is a bit out of subject (recordings). For me No. 1 Brahms is a live performance by K. Böhm + VPO in Tokyo
in 1975 (it is here on RUclips!!). I know you don´t like Böhm (too stiff), but his live
recordings are just marvelous. Strongly recommend this - just give it a try. I guarantee
you will like it!
I do like Bohm, in a lot of things, and I agree that his live recordings are often splendid (and more flexible) than his studio efforts.
For Brahms give me Klemperer