Are there any Tory MPs Labour wouldn't welcome? | The New Statesman podcast
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- Опубликовано: 18 май 2024
- David Gauke, former Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary, joins the podcast to answer your questions about defection.
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We’ve had lots of questions come in this week about defection, prompted by the surprise and somewhat contentious defection of the once Conservative MP for Dover and Deal, Natalie Elphicke, to Labour last week.
Hannah Barnes, associate editor, is joined in the studio by Rachel Cunliffe, associate political editor at the New Statesman, and down the line by David Gauke, former Conservative MP for South West Hertfordshire and New Statesman columnist.
Read: Do Tory defections to Labour herald a realignment?
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I feel like this whole thing is getting a bit overblown
Which is what the Tories want.
@@jackdubz4247 I think the Tories want everyone to forget about the defections as soon as possible.
@@redlightmax and yet you get Robert Buckland feeling the need to talk to the press about Elphicke
@@Boghopper9999His intervention was pure partisanship. Buckland, a rightwing MP himself, felt no need to speak up while Elphicke was on his side of the house. I wouldn't trust him for a moment.
Any defector means one less Tory. At this rate, Labour will have a majority before the GE🤣
Elphicke is out as soon as the GE is called, the Conservatives nerves are shredded, Tory divisions all over the media-what's not to like?
The Labour critics remind me of football fans who not just want their team to win, but to do it in the right way.
We should remember, according to the New Testament, there is more joy in Heaven over one sinner who repents than over 100 righteous people who don't need to.👼
The ones who have come have specific policy issues that they are known to both care about and be in line with Labour on - if they agreed on everything, they'd already be Labour, but they've decided these areas matter more to them than sitting in the back benches waiting for opposition. As long as they aren't running again, I can accept expertise in these areas, because it means they can achieve more when they get into government - Labour can't mess around on issues like Housing or mental health, and expertise from former ministers is a big deal if you haven't been in government for a long time
Elphicke is an edge case - she's a short-timer, a relative nobody who will have precisely zero impact on Labour policy. Rees-Mogg would never defect to Labour and if he did, no one would take him because no one would believe him (absent a complete recanting of his beliefs).
There are obvious limits, but welcoming Elphicke was probably a smart move. On the margin, a few moderates with conservative leanings may vote for Labour this election because of it. Or at least they may stay home because they feel a bit better about a Tory loss.
I'm much less fond of the purity-tests that some Labour folk seem to think should be normal. It's this thinking - better to lose purely, than win by compromise - that brought Labour such giants as Michael Foot. You know, Michael Foot, the man who passed such meaningful legislation and thereby had such an impact on British life. Oh, wait, he went down to abject defeat, and therefore accomplished nothing for Britons. But he got to feel righteously pure while he lost. I'm sure that was a great comfort to all the people who got the thick end of the stick under Thatcher.
Tories getting into the Labour party proves that parliament is a mess. UK needs to break up these large parties and bring in proportional representation. TV debates need more competition with a dozen different political parties having equal time on tv.
I broadly agree, but PR has its problems too. Things can be so tight that a very small - even inconsequential- Parties can end up being the tail wagging the dog. That’s the situation in NZ at the moment. Two small right wing parties hold the balance of power and between them they are trashing environmental legislation, pushing arguably racist policies and unpopular things like mining in the conservation estate. The major Party, like so many on the right around the western world, is craven and will swallow any rat to stay in power. I’m still a fan of PR, but it can be far from ideal.
Keir Starmer is sending a wecoming message to Tory voter's that may feel a little 'Shy' or shamfaced, at their support of a destructive Tory party over 14 years. Joined with Starmers erradication of progressives, this may attract those more individualistic voter's.
The idea of having that conversation without mentioning that Labour didn’t give a straight no to the idea of Nigel Farage joining is insane especially since John McDonnell‘s reaction to hearing that was so hilarious.
Allowing conservative MPs such as Elphicke into the Labour party makes me further doubt the already incredulous claim that reform of the voting system would be seriously considered. There is no need for a 'broad church' outside of the two party system.
disgraceful that KS welcomes this xenophobe into the party, all the while Dianne Abbott is suspended still!
Here in Denmark we had a PM (Jens Otto Kragh) who famously said: "I have a stand, until I take a new". Maybe it is the same with Natalie Elphicke.
“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well I have others.”
― Groucho Marx
@@thedavemonster He had many good ones.
Tories had a 80seat Majority, what do they have now?
It's down to 44 seats as of now.
Tories in uproar over it - a master-stroke from Sir Keir.
David is much more likeable as an analyst
True, but he’s still a Tory!
I’m not a fan of psychopaths and Nazi sympathisers, this isn’t hyperbole.
This Gervaisism brand of snide politics and the attitudes and beliefs put forward with no evidence will cost you dear, as it will not be forgotten in the coming years.
I can think of 3
Rees-Mogg
Jenrick
And Braverman
Hopefully they can point out the mistakes to avoid, they've made enough of them. Vote Labour.👍✌
Vote tactically against the Tory's
Given the backlash over Elphicke, I suspect that the steady flow of Tories to Labour has been dammed for the time being. Which is probably exactly how the Tories would like it.
They may as well just release a joint manifesto at this point.
Bas omen Rishi sunak 😂😂😂😂
As long as Rachel doesn't defect to Manchester United, everything is fine.
I think they would draw the line and not let covert Tory Galloway back in.
Short -lived life as a Labourite eh Natalie?
Theresa May's Windrush Hostile Environment Shoe Game
If Theresa May crossed the line to join Labour that would be jokes
Goodbye red tories
Boris
I wouldn't put it past him to try though.
The defections may look good in Whitehall but it makes me as a voter think even less optimistically about a Starmer government. No bold policies. Conservative politicians. We’ve had 14 years of conservative policies that have ruined the country and now we will have another Parliament of right wing policies dressed up as labour ideas.
Which of Labour's policies are right-wing? Be specific when naming them. You don't think GB Energy is a bold policy? The Labour Party has many ambitious plans, it isn't their fault that you can't be arsed to find out about them.
@@gio-oz8gfTheir policy to continue to outsource NHS treatment. They should nationalise for profit healthcare providers.
@@gio-oz8gfAusterity. Pretty big one.
Abandoning his pledges as labour candidate was the first indication and then now specifically making strong borders one of the 6 watered down promises is an example of moving to the right as is taking on conservative mps which I just mentioned. How far do you want him to go? As for energy, have you read the plan because there is none. It’s another empty promise that won’t be delivered. 100 per cent renewable in 5 years! How gullible are you?
@@DanCThorpe Not Labour austerity. Tory austerity. The Tories are the government of the day. They are the ones poisoning the well, in order to make life as hard as possible for an incoming Labour government. For that reason alone no one should ever vote Tory again.
natalie elphickes voting record is abysmal. Don't understand how she aligns with labour in any context at all, purely done for theatre.
Apparently, according to the Observer this morning, around one-third of voters are not happy with Starmer accepting her into the Labour Party. One presumes the other 2/3rds couldn’t give a toss. I doubt, therefore, that it will have a major negative effect on Labour votes.
People outside of the Westminster bubble don't give a toss about this. They are far more concerned about heating their homes, feeding their kids, and stopping the banks from repossessing their houses. What someone like Elphicke thinks about anything is way down on their list of priorities. The Tories, the pro-Tory MSM, and Momentum, may wish that it were higher but it is not.
"According to the Observer" is hardly a recommendation.
I'm in the 2/3; Starmer gave the rattled Tory's a serious kicking in PMQ and the cost was allowing someone to join the party for 6 months before she leaves parliament. That's a win in my book
She explained "how stressful and difficult that time was for her"... Ignoring of course how stressful it was for the women affected. The elphicke defection shows how little labour as an overall party care about doing what is right. I can't believe that it will help them - it's lost my vote, at least
Just get behind the leader and the party and get this moribund government gone.
Labour doesn't get to decide who Keith Stalin "welcomes".
Well done starmer, Im not vomiting for you now.
Centrist mum and dad claptrap.
Wasn't "centrist dad" a Laura Kuenssberg slur?
Aren't the majority of people/voters in the centre (it's just maths)
We are in a uniparty state. It doesn’t matter which side of the floor you’re on.
Corbyn was given not one, but two chances to win a general election and he lost both times. The country does not want more extremists, we've had enough with Brexit and just want some sensible down the middle government that gets the basics right (like not filling the rivers with sewage and the water system with viruses, like not having most of the working poor relying on food banks, like supporting house building for the working class rather than NIMBYism to preserve the asset value of the upper class)
The fact Elphicke is standing down makes the whole think even stinkier! Has she been promised a seat in the Lords for this? People with her values should not be anywhere near power.
They've already confirmed that she won't get a seat in the Lords; just some chance to input on house building policy (which is something she is quite passionate about apparently)
Own goals for Labour. We don't want these Tory Cronies.
Happy with the poll lead though, I bet.
How is it an own goal? Labour can now say Tories are so bad, their MPs are becoming Labour MPs hence strengthening how Labour should be the one nation party for all.
She's not standing at the next GE, whenever Sunak gets around to calling one, so she's little more than a bench warmer on the opposition side.
Labour needs voters to switch from voting Tory.
A Tory MP saying “vote Labour” is a positive and persuasive gain…
If you don’t like it, get off your high horse and do something which will actually result in people who previously voted AGAINST Labour voting FOR Labour.
If your high horse is too comfortable to get off, try taking it for a ride somewhere - it won’t get you anywhere…
Labour needs to win to implement policies - winning after an 8-month Elphicke defection doesn’t comprise Labour’s agenda.
I need Labour to WIN and change this country, not sit back and congratulate itself on its principles…
@@xanthias2001 Adding Tories who caused the problem to Labour sends one message to voters. "We are more of the same". I am a Labour party member and don't need trols like you having a go at me.