The smartest thing Viserys could have done if he wanted Rhaenyra to be Queen without the drama, was to abdicate the throne when it became apparent to him that he was sick enough for Otto and Alicent to be taking over his duties.
@@aaroncohen2700 we don’t know that it wasn’t a thing, either…🤷🏻♀️ Otto was basically functioning as King at that point, so why not Rhaenyra? She was an adult by that time, anyway. Look, Viserys was bucking the system already by naming his daughter as heir to the Iron Throne. It wouldn’t have been that big of a deal to take it one step further and abdicate, especially if he had ANY idea that there was going to be chaos (either from Alicent, her children, the other lords of the kingdom, or from the common folk) over Rhaenyra being heir when he also had a true born son. And of course he knew, as Alicent and Aemond/Aegon, and even Vaemond kept bringing up the fact that her children were bastards. He could have EASILY put a stop to it before it even started. He should have been training Rhaenyra up right alongside of him the entire time. He was a good father, but not an ineffective problem-solver and ruler.
The smartest thing would have been to give Rhaenyra to Daemon when he asked him for her. If Viserys wanted Rhaenyra to be queen, he should have known she was going to need help. Daemon could have given it. Viserys should have seen that. Rhaenyra is the kind of girl that you don't bring home to momma. However, Viserys could not have known that until it was too late. Rhaenyra's goose was cooked and she was disqualified from being Queen the moment she gave birth to Harland Strong's first bastard. That is treason of the highest order. It breaks the most basic social contract and no society composed of men and women could accept it even if they wanted to. Marrying her to Daemon would most likely have prevented Rhaenyra's lady parts from betraying her because Daemon is the one her lady parts really wanted AND he had a high enough station that he could have actually married her so she wouldn't have had to hide their relationship.
Viserys had so many chances of avoiding the dance of dragons. Hell, he could have ended most conflicts by marrying Rhaenyra to Daemon earlier or to Aegon later. Having Rhaenyra marry Daemon would have avoided the whole legimatecy issue of their children, and marrying her to Aegon would have ended the crisis all together. No matter how many chances Viserys had of solving the issue, he always chose the worst option: Do absolutely nothing.
Rhaenyra was much older than Aegon, especially in HotD - and Otto with Alicent would try to wait as long as possible in order to make sure that she would have problems with giving birth. Also, it wouldn't solve anything, because it would give Greens more power over Rhaenyra - maesters and Citadel is funded by House Hightower - they could pretend that Rhaenyra had the same problems as her mother and grandmother and kill her when she was giving birth. And even with their marriage it wouldn't be clear who would be the official ruler - position of Queen consort is nothing compared to Quenn of the Seven Kingdoms. Consort will not have more power/duties than the main ruler will allow them to have. And they would block Rhaenyra from gaining access to power and authority.
George wanted the story to be this way. If I remember correctly, he intended to make Rhaenyra and Harwin actually married in the first version of the manuscript but changed that so the boys would be bastards.
@@aileenpi73 I don't think that was the biggest mistake tbh. I actually think Otto was right in that regard. Would you have really wanted someone like Daemon in power? I wouldn't. The biggest mistake was first of all Viserys remarrying, and not making a strong political marriage at that.
@@mrtyrant1680 really depends. Most people would see a difference between 1 someone baking a cake to be nice, 2 same but unknowing the recepient has an allergy unintentionally killing them and 3 someone doing that on purpose. Or between killing someone in cold blood vs doing it in self defence. Both end with someone dead, so following your logic, there is no difference between them
@@DanyelAzamor-lh7yg true, but what it means it that just cause you did have good intentions does not mean, what your actions lead to will be good. If you lack for example needed knowlage, self awareness what ever, you can do increadable harm! It warns to looks closely at your actions and their impact instead of assuming you are above that for you had good intentions. Good intentions get used to justify abuse.....
@@SingingSealRiana In the end, you will suffer the consequences of killing someone, so in a tragic way, there is no difference other than how it affects you, and in some cases, the people around you. But this isn't matter of good intentions, is more of a matter of a weak and naive fool making mistakes that could have easily been avoided.
I really love the addition of his miniature building hobby. real "dad playing with his toy train set" vibes. all he needed were the westerosi equivalent of cargo shorts and a hawaiian shirt .
As sympathetic as Viserys is in HotD (Paddy is a gift), he is an objectively terrible ruler. His consistent refusal to address conflict is apparent throughout his entire reign - not wanting to deal with the war in the stepstones, simply sending Daemon away instead of putting him in his place, not mending the relationship with Corlys Velaryon, ignoring the growing enmity between his second wife and his daughter, and later their children. It shows that doing nothing can be the worst choice. If he had even once decisively done what was best for the realm instead of what was the least unpleasant, he could have prevented the Dance altogether. the show adds his illness as a factor, but even before he was ill he made key mistakes: 1) *Marrying Alicent Hightower instead of Laena Velaryon* : Marrying Laena would have brought Rhaenys line back into the ruling house Targaryen, and placated Corlys who was still bitter about Rhaenys being passed over. Laena had also claimed the oldest and strongest living dragon (Vhagar), and her father was one of the richest people in the realm, with a poweful war fleet, all factors that made her the obvious political choice. Considering age gaps were nothing unusual in feudal marriages, the argument of her age as a hindering factor is really weak. in IRL feudal marriages where one party was much younger the compromise was often to simply wait with consummation until they had come of age, while still being formally married. Since Viserys had declared Rhaenyra his heir apparent, there was no immediate pressure to produce more children (except from people who didn't want a woman on the throne). He likely married Alicent because more out of loneliness than anything else, since heir age meant they could live fully as husband and wife immediately. She was the daughter of a second son, and it added an outside, very ambitious family into the mix, producing even more rival claimants than there already were, making her a really bad choice. 2) *Failing to reassert Rhaenyra as his heir after the birth of his sons by Alicent* : Its very obvious to everyone but Viserys that in the patriarchal society of Westeros, Aegon would be seen as the heir despite any vows he'd made the lords swear years earlier. In the show this is told directly to his face by Tytos Lannister, but Viserys only gives him a reprimand and does nothing else. Rhaenyra herself is aware of this and tries to talk to him about it, but he doesn't want to address the issue. This comes to bite Rhaenyra later at the start of the Dance, when those vows of loyalty are decades past. Lord Baratheon himself points out that he isn't beholden to the vow of his dead father, and that the Greens make a much more compelling offer for his allegiance (a royal marriage for one of his many daughters). If Viserys had been more outspoken IN PUBLIC, and made it clear to the lords and the smallfolk that Rhaenyra stayed his heir after Aegon's birth, it would have been much harder for the Greens to sow doubt about his wishes after he passed. 3) *Not taking any measures to create a good relationship between Alicent, Rhaenyra, and their children* : Viserys' shying from conflict meant he turned a blind eye to any fights that existed between these parties. If he had put his foot down at the start, demanding they be less antagonistic to each other, maybe ordering Rhaenyra to not just sit on Dragonstone or even fostering her sons at King's Landing so they could be closer with their half-uncles, instead of the mothers instilling their personal feelings towards the other on them, perhaps Aegon, Aemond and Daeron would not have been willing to fight Jace, Luke and Joff, regardless of what their mother and grandfather wanted. speaking of: 4) *Ignoring the rumours around Rhaenyra's sons for years* : Regardless of whether the three kids were Laenor's or Harwin's, Viserys should have taken measures. The moment the rumours started around Jace, he should have removed Harwin as Rhaenyra's sworn shield, maybe sending him to Harrenhall, but certainly away from the Crownlands. If Jace had been the only brown-eyed brunette of Rhaenyra's children, it could have been excused as the folly of youth (she was 17 or 18 at the time of his birth), or even just a quirk of genetics (Laenor did have Baratheon blood through his mom after all, and Corlys' isn't described in the books). its the birth of three children with those looks in a row that really fueled the rumours about their legitimacy, something the Hightowers would be able to abuse easily. By the time Viserys is threatening to cut out tongues, its far too late.
The big issue is Viserys had sons. If those sons were with Laena Corlys would do the same thing Otto did. If he wanted to reassert Rhaenyra as his heir then he just never should’ve remarried and betrothed her to Daemon and just be done with it. Rhaenyra had to combine her claim with either her uncle or whoever her eldest brother was. Basically Rhaenyra on her own would cause the dance.
@@jjh2456 Yeah, ultimately, regardless of whose mother they were; sons would hurt Rhaenyra's clean inheritance of the throne. The only way to avoid that is to not remarry (not feasible), Rhaenyra marrying Daemon (also not feasible), or marrying her eldest brother to Rhaenyra (probably the only safe option).
There is one thing he could have done and that´s when Rhaenyrra proposes marriage between Jace and Helaena, make it so. It fixes most issues. Otto now has his granddaughter, instead of a grandson, on the throne and he would probably be much less enthusiastic about ousting her, knowing his blood will be on the throne, one way or another.
@@jsmth99 Doubt Otto would fight for a bastard's claim on the throne, even if it was connected to his blood. Also I think Helaena was married to Aegon already.
@@stephenjenkins7971 Heleana wasn't married to Aegon yet. It still wouldn't have worked. Rheanyra is still a women with living three brothers and Jace is still a bastard. Heleana would find herself in the same position Ellia Martel found herself in; a hostage with the safety and the claim of her children uncertain.
"Then for the sake of this old man, who loves you all, so dearly!" Aegon: Bullshit. Aemond: Counting the days until you die. Helaena: Mother, who's that sad old man at the table? For real V, you Fucked over you Hightower Kids badly.
Tywin learned from Viserys: “The house that puts family first will always defeat the house that puts the whims and wishes of its sons and daughters first.”
@@RuosteinenknightProbably, since it was know Tywin was disappointed of each of his children but instead blame them for turning out like this. Not admitting he’s the one who did this to his children, especially Tyrion and how he treated him
And where did it take the Lannisters? Tywin killed by his own son, Kevan killed by Varys, Genna and her children will probably be killed by the brotherhood, Cercei is going mad, her children are on their way to die, Jaime is on his way to die and in the entire 7 kingdoms they have no allies. His entire family killed by his own greed, so no Tywin was an idiot.
@@TraciPeteyforlifepffft, what nonsense. There’s absolutely nothing suspicious about any of the Targaryen children’s deaths. I mean, take prince Aemon, Rhaenys’ dad. He was simply shot by a crossbow in the middle of a war. By accident. On the side of a mountain. At dusk, from over 300 feet away. Absolutely *nothing* suspicious about that!
@@jacklang3314If only had he lived ,he would have been a second Jahaerys the Conciliator .That would have been too much off a problem for george as the targaryens would have ended with another great monarch with an extremely long reign that would result in a stronger and more powerful royal dynasty .House Targaryen would have never fallen and neither the dragons would have gone extinct .The only reason as to why they did so in the first place was because of aegon iii nonchalance and hatred to the symbols of power which make house targaryen special and powerful in the first place .He was sitting on a mountain off dragon-lore at the time and the dragons hadn't yet gone extinct ,If he had truly made a sincere attempt to curb the decline population of the dragons and their respective health rather than making half-assed attempts just to make it seem like he is doing something about it like in the original timeline then dragons would have still roamed westoros and house targaryen would have reigned supreme still
Besides Viserys, Rhaenyra made for a poor heir also, she was absent from court at the critical time of her father's failing health, allowing for Otto and Alicent to basically rule King's Landing by proxy and establish connections and gain allies, what did she think would happen she would just show up when her father died and sit on the throne because she was a Targaryen, she should off known that her claim would of been challenged as soon as her father produced a male heir, her half brothers also had a claim and no way she should of trusted Otto not to want his grandchildren on the throne. She should have stayed at court to solidified her claim and undermine House Hightower.
I think a big theme for Targaryen characters is a sense of entitlement. Daemon want to be appointed hand of the king simply cuz he is the King's brother. He can't even understand that he's not qualified and all the tantrums he pulls are making him look less qualified. Rhaenyra basically has the same thought process. She doesn't feel a need to keep relationships and do politics cuz she's the King's daughter
@thomasmendoza7728 wrong one he only wants his brother attention and as hand he have that and he work both with law and coin but otto hate him not to mention he fixed the city guard making them actually good at their job otto kick to curb long ago only about his family
@@paulgroeger33 Bro, hand of the King is literally the second most powerful job in the Kingdom. Yeah he did well at in charge of the city guard but how is he with tax policy? With solving family disputes peacefully? International diplomacy? If he views being hand as just a way to get his brothers attention, then he is not qualified to be hand lol. Daemon puts his own personal feelings ahead of what's good for the nation. Otto is not a great hand, but that doesn't mean Daemon would automatically be a better one
@@thomasmendoza7728 please Name me one thing otto does to help realm falls he does nothing and makes it weaker and then taxes should be for master of coin
@@paulgroeger33 I'm not talking about Otto. I literally said Otto isn't great either. But just because Otto sucks doesn't mean Daemon would be better. They both are bad hands. Lynol Strong was clearly the best hand at the time
Worst king in the history of Westeros. I don’t care about other kings who were consciously terrible like Aegon IV and Maegor. Viserys inadvertently in his foolishness caused the most devastating war for Westeros and the most brutal blow for the Targaeryan family with the loss of the dragons. The targaeryans would never ever be able to maintain control over the entire of Westeros after the death of the dragons which Viserys directly caused. The only one who comes close is Aerys II but Viserys is worse because he came into the throne with such a strong position.
Maegor was consciously burning the enemies of House Targaryen, not his fault his brother's widow turned his nephews against him and incited their rebellions while there was already widespread rebellion going on. Hard to rule while fighting on multiple fronts and surrounded by enemies both within and out.
People always gloss over Jaehaerys’ part in the Dance. Sure, it was Westerosi custom to have males take precedence, but Targaryen’s are well known for breaking those customs. Sibling marriage, for instance, and generally ‘Targaryen exceptionalism’ were initially viewed as tolerable to any degree, but the Targaryen’s made these things happen. Eventually, even accepted as just a part of Valyrian culture. If Jaehaerys decided to name a clear successor himself, he would not have established the precedent for this to happen in the first place. Also, most of Viserys’ decisions, if not the best, were at least logical to a degree. When he married Alicent, we have to remember that there were only really Viserys, Daemon and Rhaenyra around to produce Targaryen heirs. If we include Rhaenys, who could have her children count if those three died, that’s still very few people around to claim the throne. Especially if what HOTD claims about the prophecy is true, and destiny needs them. One unfortunate night of assassination, disease or accident could very well wipe out the entire dynasty. By the time the Dance starts, sure, there are sh*tloads of Targaryen’s, but Viserys didn’t know how many kids he might have.
I honestly imagine when viserys entered the afterlife it was like malswrld video when odin was choking ares but its jaehaerys choking viserys with baelon, allysa and aemon trying to hold him back and jaehaerys cursing him out for being so incompetent and causing this mess with maegor helping jaehaerys in trying to hurt him like thats how I imagine their after life
And Aegon the Conquerors just sitting in the background, shaking his head in disappointment at his descendants, wondering why he bothered uniting the kingdoms if this is what his family did with them.
My favorite moment in the entire show is when Viserys is mourning that he never got to go fight at a war. That the Gods never tested him and he only ruled during peace time. The cruel irony being that he is being tested and he’s failing miserably. Arguably the entire downfall of the Targaryen dynasty can be traced back to his poor leadership
He set Rhaenyra up for failure from day one. He should have allowed her to marry Daemon instead of Laenor, made her Hand of the King, and never remarried himself. The solution was right in front of him and so simple, it's a miracle how much he managed to mess it all up.
For real Idk why he didn't annul his marriage with rhea they hated eachother and there marriage got them nothing marrying both his hires would solidify the succession but as always he allowed his council to control him .
The show itself explains why. Childbirth is dangerous and Rhaenyra could have ended up like her mother at any time. On top of that Daemon is reckless and impulsive, and those are not common traits in old men.
@@luckychops2162 Even more reason to let her marry and have children asap, and if she died without an heir, then and only then should he have remarried. Daemon wouldn't need to live to an old age really, as long as he and Rhaenyra had atleast a couple healthy kids - if he died while they were still young (which happened anyway), there would be other people around to take of and teach them, and they wouldn't have inherited the aftermath of a brutal civil war.
@@thatoneblackdude3333 Exactly! Daemon and Rhea never even consummated the marriage, so there would be no loss of honour for Rhea either - she would likely be relieved and happy about it. And if Viserys wanted to please both Otto and Corlys, they could have agreed to have Alicent marry Laenor, and for their kids to marry Daemon and Rhaenyra's kids.
The main difference between Rhaenyra and Cersei. robert believed that the bastards are his children. But he don't love them. Laenor knew their children are bastards but he loves and protects them.
@@darriuscole8544 he enjoyed punishing them. He knew that Joffrey was a psycho but he didn't do anything to rectify him. If he send him to Casterly rock under the guardianship of Tywin Lannister Joffrey would be changed. Tywin understand the problem and he trained the boy.
I feel like Robert became totally disillusioned with what he thought being a King would be like then quickly found out he didn't have what it took. He also hated Cersei and couldn't forget about Ned's sister. Leads him into a depression and not giving a fuck about anything. Being completely apathetic and miserable
Because Rhaenyra and Leanor made a pact of being a protective family, even though they were not sexually attracted and active with each other. Rhaenyra could have at any moment, to save herself and her children , accuse Leanor of being gay and not being a good consort. They were cousins, they loved each other and they did the best they could under the circumstances they lived.
@@aileenpi73 - She could not have accused him after she had kids. Any admission that Laenor was not the father is an admission of treason that damns her and her children. Also, scandalizing Laenor would have ended any alliance with House Velaryon.
Honestly, it's really amazing how people who have gotten in ASOIAF through HOTD tend to see Rhaenyra as completely the opposite of what she is shown as, the show makes it clear that she is a very meh person who uses her sex, along with other things to her advantage. While I do think she'd be a decent queen, she is not faultless and she is definitely not "wronged." She knew her claim would be challenged ever since she was made heir but she did almost nothing towards that. Her sleeping with Harwin and having his kids was her own fault and it weakened her claim to the throne. Which also gave Alicent more fuel to add to the fire. Rhaenyra wanted everything but she hardly did anything for it, often went away to Dragonstone, which gave the greens more time to plot and bastardise her claim to the throne. People watching the show or reading the books often forget how grey GRRM's characters are, I don't think Rhaenyra or Viserys or any character fits a good or bad archetype. Rhaenyra is a liar as well as a manipulator and why wouldn't she be? She's the heir to the throne and that's how politics works. But she is also a good mother who loves her kids, at least wants to be a just queen, was a good friend to Laena and a good wife (to Daemon lol.)
I see it as Viserys' fault, he wants Rhaenyra to be the queen, yet he has done nothing to secure her claim Naming Rhaenyra as his heir is one thing, the lords see her as one is another Viserys should've included Rhaenyra as his rulling inner circle and in his later years name her as the hand After decade of rulling in Viserys' stead, sort of like the trial run for the throne, the lords would see her as the queen, no matter what the greens say Instead Viserys named Rhaenyra as the heir, then excluded her, and in later years, handed the power to Otto Hightower. There are just so many things Viserys could've done to prevent the greens' power grab
@@bigppisha But her wrongs were more of less the result of the dance and reaction to the greens Aegon was a twat even before the whole thing. But one thing Rhaenyra does best is being a good mom, her children were all brave, honorable, courteous, responsible and have loving relationship with Rhaenyra Alicent's children were all messed up, granted, Helaena was kind of okay, but Alicent put her in that situation leading to her going mad over blood and cheese incident(except the little one that got torn apart we did know alot of)
So you’re just going to overlook that she tried to have Laenors children but he couldn’t “perform” her work around was far from perfect but she found a solution to one of her duties as the heir. Changing things so they’re obviously not “true” Velaryons is a writing choice seemingly just to make Rhaenyra look bad and prop up a rapist as a somehow better option
@@DavidCarradinesBelt Yes to the fact that Laenor couldn't do his husbandly duty, but I'm confused about the rest of your comment - who is the rapist that you're referring to?
Fair enough. Fire & Blood says he “was thought to favor neither blacks nor greens,” but since the book itself was written by a maester, it’s up to interpretation.
@@Jacaerys4life Maesters ultimately answer to the Targs. If they wanted a pro-Black position, they'd have no choice but to make it. This logic that they're stooges for the Hightowers is mostly fan copium.
@@stephenjenkins7971 no it isnt, the Citadel is literally in Oldtown, the city ruled by the Hightowers, the Hightowers have immense influence on the Citadel and its maesters
@@Dell-ol6hb And any Targ ruler can order their tongues taken if they do anything to displease them. Them being in Oldtown doesn't matter; Targs can do what they want as long as its not against multiple powerful Lords.
Visery's leniency with his dragonriders was his biggest mistake. Jaehaerys would rather disown one of his own children rather that let them become an unworthy dragonrider. At the time his decision to banish Saera seemed cruel, but in the long run it proved to be the right choice.
@@shoazdon7000 Saera was the most rebellious child Jaehaerys had. She was completely uncontrollable throughout her childhood, and in her teens it was revealed that she kept a secret harem of dudes to sleep with. This resulted in her getting disowned and banished, she lived out the rest of her life as a courtesan in Lys.
@@baconian_road_construction damn sounds interesting, George knows how to write characters. You said in the long run it was a good choice. What did she do as an adult that led you to that conclusion?
@@shoazdon7000 she just lived out her life in Lys as a successful courtesan. The point is that he prevented unstable personalities from becoming dragonriders. Pretty much every Targaeryen who claimed a dragon during his reign was capable of handling the responsibility.
You are 100% right that Jaehaerys cares more about being worthy dragonriders than anything else. I wanna add to this by saying that he was specially doting on Saera, going as far as to hallucinate her on his dying days, and only banished her after she tried to claim a dragon for herself. Had Saera stayed away from the dragons Jaehaerys probably would have let her do her thing, it was only when she tried to become an actual dragonrider that he sent her away.
It's funny how a man can be so willfully blind to the conflicts and feelings of his family because if he knew their true extent he would have to choose one and damn the other
@@Blackmamba648 not really. He could have killed Alicent quite justifiably for any number of crimes against the heir. Especially when Alicent attacked Rhaenyra on Dragonstone. That is clearly punishable by death.
@@kekero540 ummmmm he clearly did choose a side he was cold and uncaring to his other three kids all he cared about was Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra did many things that were punishable by death and when did Alicent attack her again ?
@@Blackmamba648 he chose a side but he didn’t choose decisively. He failed to enforce his own edicts due to willful ignorance. Alicent should have been executed for high treason for attacking the Heir with intent to murder. But he did nothing. The reason why a Vaemond was bold enough to come to the crown in the first place was that Viserys did not properly enforce his policies and kept people he should’ve known were plotting against his daughter by his side.
@@kekero540 Rhaenyra deserved it she asked her Alicent’s son to be sharply questioned after losing an eye that’s pretty messed up and yeah Viserys was a shit king
Hahaha you prove my point, when some people are moved by Paddy's dying walk to the throne. I thought, he wouldn't have to if he addressed his heir earlier. He chose difficulties for himself.
What are you on about? The man named her his heir and made everyone swear oaths they'd uphold her claim, plus, he was adamant that he'd never disinherit her. Hell, that whole walk while he was dying was to protect her claim. He was flaky on raising his kids, but he was clear in naming Rhaenyra the heir. Hell, literally everyone thought Alicent was bullshitting them when she said Viserys changed his mind, even the Green Council, even Aegon himself was sure Rhaenyra would be queen, not him.
@@violetblue1251 My guy, did we watch the same show? There was a big scene where he named her his heir and literally had the lords of the realm swear fealty to her. He even reassured her later on that she would indeed be the heir and that Aegon's birth wouldn't change anything.
Rhaenyra was never taught how to rule or react to issues beyond her own wants and needs. Her father never trained her to be Queen, he gave her a piss poor example to go by, and the only one who gave her advice was Daemon, who literally only taught her that because she was a Targaryen she could do whatever she wanted which led to many of the problems she caused.
Viserys is a good father to Rhaenyra, but he failed at everything else. He literally initiated the downfall of his house. He should have known better. He was chosen as king cuz he was MALE!!! Why did he think it would be ok to choose daughter over a son? He should have stayed unmarried if he rlly wanted Rhae to remain as heir!!!
Not feasible. Plenty of young men and women have died in freak accidents or diseases and emergency heirs is always needed. It's happened in the overall ASOIAF timeline where entire lineages were wiped out from plagues, and in real life.
If Viserys truly wanted Rhaenyra as his heir without any real drama surrounding it, he should have abdicated the throne to her when he got sick enough for Otto and Alicent to start taking over. 🤷🏻♀️
He could have put his foot down with Daemon, have him divorce Rhea on grounds of infertility and married to another woman who had proven fertility. Or he could have remarried but but formally write down/change the royal laws of succession and allowed for female rule.
And why did he never actively raise his sons to be better? We see in Aegon how his constant bad behavior is a direct result over not feeling loved or respected. Viserys should've stepped in and corrected him much much earlier
The worst part was that he knew about the terrible relationship between his daughter’s family and his wife’s family but never actually did something to change that. “Stop fighting girls, be friends” is just so idiotic… I get he was ill and maybe that’s a justification but… when there was that opportunity of marrying Jace and Helaena he didn’t take it bc Alicent didn’t want it, but who is the King? And knowing that he lived in patriarchal society never did something to help and support her daughter’s claim when he literally had a male firstborn, it was common sense that some lords and ppl would prefer Aegon over Rhaenyra… just by naming her heir doesn’t erase the possibility of a “treason”. He did the blind eye or just thought that “no, there’s no way the claim of my daughter would be challenged, my decisions will be respected until my death” 🙂
That proposal was stupid anyway, it would solve nothing because Aegon, Aemond and Daeron would still be ahead of Rhaenyra by Andal succession and the family would still be threatened.
@@diegonatan6301 Alicent and Otto are not that heartless so as to attempt to usurp the throne if Helaena were married “into the blacks”. Then Aegon and Aemond won’t have any other option more than to follow what their family do. Now, another thing is if Aemond makes “his own faction” and rebellion… But Jace and Helaena would have made a change of situations.
Marrying Helaena to Jace solved nothing though. All it did was give the blacks hostages through Helaena and her children. It didn't get rid of the legitimate claims that Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron had. Nor would it stop the inevitable challenges to Jace and Helaena's descendants claims since Jace's bastardy would always call him and his descendants into question, or erase the Greens and their descendants claims. All that does is put Helaena, her children, and their future descendants in danger for the foreseeable future and will inevitably always lead to a succession crisis or attempt for either side to take out their competition. All it would do, at most, is postpone the Dance and put Helaena and her descendants in danger which is something that Alicent and the Greens would of course want to avoid.
Visery’s was an idiot. So many death could’ve been avoided if he didn’t do dumb things. He trusted anyone but his brother and put his daughter life on the line so often. Low-key a terrible King
what kind of logic is that lol, is Alicent and Rhaenyra who caused all this and Otto and Daemon. If everyone just didn't fuck around everything would have been fine.
@@anonymous-bb2dw Jaeherys didn't choose anyone. He did an election , an old version of democracy. Which helped him from tearing the realm apart. Something, Viserys couldn't do.
@@Papaty25 you can't be this gullible to believe that, if he wanted rhaenys to rule he could have chosen her, by making an "election" he knew everyone would vote for the man.
Everything I learn about the ASOIAF universe makes me appreciate the North more and more. I like how hearthy, honest and engaged they are in a positive manner (except the Boltons and some others). Excited to see the North in the 2nd season!
All Viserys had to do was name Aegon II the heir once he passed his infancy. Or, he should've just not married anyone else and just hope and pray Rhaenyra doesn't die in childbirth. Then again, "Hope is the fool's ally", as Corlys stated, but its not like Viserys had been known for logical decision making anyways. Only way for Rhaenyra to be seen as the true heir is if there aren't any male Targaryens left out there to inherit. Daemon had 2 daughters, and he himself was formally disinherited and wouldn't have been well-accepted by the Realm and Council anyways. So without him, you only have female Targaryens around. In which case, fine, Rhaenyra (or more preferably, Rhaenys) would be the next best thing. Then House Velaryon will likely take the Throne
Imagine if Viserys never married Alicent or had any other legitimate sons, then abdicated the throne while he was still alive and marrying Rhaenyra to Daemon. Maybe it's just me being optimist, but i don't think it would have be that hard
@abczzc651 oh yes, already married Borros Baratheon, who clearly was unhappy with his family supporting his cousin, Rhaenys, and later supporting Rhaenyra. Also, always ambitious Lannisters - if Viserys would force Rhaenyra to marry Jason or Tyland, they would seek to overpower her. About Velaryons - it wasn't about their house in general, but about Corlys and Rhaenys children - as the only child of the oldest son, Rhaenys was named "queen who will be" by Alysanne. Marriage with Laenor would unite their claims to the Iron Throne, and would soldify their allegiance to the crown. This marriage couldn't be with just any Velaryon - it had to be Laenor, because he was also a dragonrider (and house Velaryon never had dragons or dragonriders, not before Corlys and Rhaenys marriage). He really should have allowed Daemon to marry Rhaenyra, or at least reaffirm her as a heir and make a rule that her children will be Targaryens - and then see how many lords would be happy to marry her.
Honestly he should've just made it so that, if Rhaenyra died before she had her own heirs, Laena's children would succeed her. That way he can keep the Velaryons happy and if Rhaenyra does have heirs, then just bethroth them to Laena's children like what happens in canon so that both families are happy and there are some spares to have in case. Either way, Corlys would be happy and Rhaenys denial of the throne would be amended through her descendants.
Viserys was a pretty decent person but he definitely wasn't a good ruler as I've seen many reactions to the show think. Just bc he was a nice guy and stuck by his daughter doesn't mean he was a good ruler. Often times he was very passive and wanted to just hand wave away all the problems and drama instead of being firm and tackling them head on. He also stuck by his daughter often times at the expense of other people, like when his own son was maimed. Which obv caused division and resentment. He never fully put the drama between Alicent and his daughter either instead, again, being passive. I think another big mistake was not keeping Daemon on his council. Yes, Daemon is a hothead and not a good ruler, but he would have helped to keep all the back room deals going on from happening. There is no way Aegon could have been put on the throne with Daemon on the council. The other issue was we never saw him actually father his sons. It's like he left that entirely to Alicent while he mostly focused on his daughter. He could have avoided all the division and bad behavior had he just been active in his family's lives and forcing them to deal with their issues in a healthy way
It’s easy to assume being a morally decent person and not an evil fuck means being a good ruler, which it doesn’t. Most of the best rulers in history are evil bastards. Well, maybe not evil but morality wasn’t the first thing in their minds.
Alicent herself wasn't a great parent .At the time of aegon's birth she herself was barely an adult .How do you expect a child to know how to properly raise a kid to one day rule the entire continent or even properly in the first place ? Aegon ii was the mess that he was because of neglectful parenting of Viserys I and alicent herself and the lack of a role-model figure in his formative years .Otto was dismissed as hand which was why he wasn't able to play a part in aegon's upbringing in king's landing
Viserys reminds me of Louis XVI of France. King who was killed by revolutionaries. While he was a good man and wanted to please both sides and be loved. While in reality when you are hit with crisies you must be decisive and sometimes ruthless and tyrannical. To stabilize economy , infighting and promote prestige of Royal Court. Viserys failed to do that although he had very best legacy left by Jaeharys the Consilliator. While former was decisive , imperious , wise and had his decisions made emotionless , Viserys based his decisions based on emotions. I feel that probably was one and only good decision that he made was to banish Otto Hightower from Kings Landing and Install Strong as his hand.
There are few fictional characters I hate as much as Viserys Targaryen I. Even in HotD, he was a shit king and and even shittier father. He never taught Rhaenyra consequences or politics, leaving her an entitled fool who thinks that she doesn't have to work for the crown, had sons but still tried to make a one-generation exception to the law y placing Rhaenyra as his heir (which alienated his younger children and would have destablized the kingdom), and never actually gave any of his children the skills they would need to rule a kingdom. His preferential treatment of Rhaenyra and Daemon showed the country that he didn't care if they did wrong, he would always forgive any crime done by his family. He was a coward who made children with Alicent just to disregard and ignore them, even though just a couple years ago he was so desperate for a son that he bred his wife to death. I hope he rots in hell.
@@MrFredstt He didn't even talk to him, how could he have taught him anything. Honestly, are we even sure Viserys knew how to run a kingdom, it seems like Otto did all the actual work, and every time Viserys made a decision, it just fucked things up more for his council to try to fix. Maybe it's a good thing he didn't teach his kids shit.
@@KittyOfChess Exactly. Really he didn't prepare Rhaenyra that well either tbh. And yeah I don't think he was that competent at ruling. It was his hands, first Otto and then Strong, that were the competent ones. He didn't even know what to do about Daemon in the Stepstones until Alicent gave him solid advice. Let's not forget too that a lot of advice he got from his court he ignored. Multiple times he had the opportunity to prevent a civil war
If only Viserys never remarried and named Rhaenyra heir until she had a son, or named Daemon heir on the condition that he marry Rhaenyra. If Otto was so power hungry, he could have married Alicent to the prince of Dorne, they would have way more power with Dorne on their side
Honestly having Daemon heir on the condition he marry Rhaenyra would've saved a lot of headaches. Yes, Daemon was reckless and can be cruel but it wouldn't have resulted in such a disastrous civil war with the complete loss of all their dragons
The entire reason why Rhaenyra became heir in the first place is because people really did not want Daemon as king... Have any of you paid any attention?
I don't understand how, rhaenyra expected to place bastards on the throne. Smh. At least her brothers were true born. No respect for the crown or family.
Rhaenyra's children are her blood, and that's all that mattered. Bastardy only matters when the male blood doesn't continue, but since Rhaenyra was the heir, and her children were actually her own, whether they are bastards or not shouldn't matter
@@MeganAllen1738 But it does matter, people won't so easily bend the knee to a bastard, it would be ridiculous to think there would be no problems, especially since the only royal blood they have, is from their mother.
@saifobaid6849 What? And how is Aegon any better? Aegon's mother had no Targaryen blood. Rhaenyra is 75% Targaryen. And being Queen, she has the power to legitimise her "bastards" (which by the way, they are not, since bastards cannot exist when inheritance is passed through the female line)
@MeganAllen1738 A bastard is someone that is conceived out of wedlock. So if her children weren't her husbands, they were bastards. It doesn't matter whether or not she was queen. That's just like saying a kings son from a whore is the rightful heir, because he is older then his siblings that were conceived in a marriage. Line of recession can't be passed to bastards.
@@fella293 But logically, the Velaryon blood is not relevant to becoming heir to the Iron Throne. All her children need is Targaryen blood, which they have. They don't need to be born in wedlock. One of the reasons being a bastard is such a big deal is that it's difficult to determine paternity, but in this case, there is no need to do so. Whether Rhaenyra's children are bastards or not is irrelevant, they are still her children, with Targaryen blood, legitimised by her as her heirs, and are therefore eligible to rule Westeros. Not allowing her to rule because she allegedly had children out of wedlock (I say allegedly because most of the lords don't know this for sure, but we as viewers do) is a flimsy argument.
Pax Dragonus means "peace dragon". If you wanted to emulate the tradition of naming certain periods of peace as "Pax (whatever ruling power is enforcing the peace)", then the right name of it would be "Pax Draconum", which roughly translates to "Peace of the dragons".
@@melannydayrethratliff1309 Aemond, who was Alicent's son (Daemon thought Alicent killed his brother Viserys and stole his second wife Rheynyra's throne, so also stoled his throne) was ridding this dragon and it once was his ancestors' and wife Leana's.
I wonder if Alyssa Mae that, "I want to give you 20 sons" comment within the hearing of a maester? You make excellent videos. Cant wait to check out the rest of your catalogue.
I think another thing people forget was that the small council that voted against Rhenyra's succession was Visery's council, you know, the guys Visery's appointed and gave power. I find it hilarious that people that "whatever he says goes", well he picked the council that voted against Rhenyra.
It always made no sense to me that Allysane got so mad that Jaehaerys chose Baelon over Rhaenys, when literally all the lords in the seven kingdoms chose Jaehaerys over Rhaena, years earlier, the precedence that a male gets is literally what made her queen
Those are not the same situations. One is a brother inheriting ahead of a sister which is standard in Westeros. The other would be a niece inheriting ahead of her uncle, which is also standard. In Winterfell, Sansa would be behind Rickon in inheritance but ahead of Benjin.
@@billychops1280 True...Aerya would have been the better example over Rhaena. But we have to look at the state of Westeros during Jaehaerys ascension which also played a factor. They had just come off a six year reign of terror and war with Maegor the Cruel. And basically need a strong champion to counter his rule. And Jaehaerys was the strongest contender over the then infant/dragonless twins. Jaehaerys more so conquered the throne from Maegor rather than inheriting it from him. That's not so much the case 50+ years later during the peaceful period of Aemon's death.
@@thegreatpage5912 not really, Rhaena was older and had an older dragon, she even was the mother of the eldest sons children. So no, the lords just Chose Jaehaerys cuz he was the last son, same way they voted for Viserys cuz he was the eldest Targaryen from the last living son of Jaehaerys who hadn’t taken vows. Plus it would have been extremely stupid to vite for Laenor over Viserys because imagine the Targaryens as a result refused to Mary into the velaryons who were the new royals. In like 1 generation the Velaryons would no longer be able to ride dragons, especially since Laenor was gay. So basically what would stop the Targaryens who are In dragonstone from basically starting a second conquest lol. Plus Jaehaerys wanted his family (the Targaryens) to say on the throne, which is a reasonable desire
@@billychops1280 Rhaena was stuck with Maegor at the time as his Black Bride. So of course she's not going to have any support while she's still under Maegor's power. He could easily order her executed if anyone got the bright idea to replace him with her. Jaehearys was far way safe at Storm's End. Yes him being a man was likely the biggest factor in the lords backing him. But I would say the biggest. Most refused to back his brother Aegon the Uncrowned because they didn't think he would win. No one wants to back a losing team. By the time Jaehaerys stepped up as the new face of the rebellion the odds had shifted greatly against Maegor. That is why Jaehaerys was more a figurehead against Maegor, rather than Maegor's own heir. No one could support Rhaena even if they wanted too while she was still under Maegor's reach. The Rhaena situation also goes back to brothers inheriting over sisters being the norm.
This truely goes to show a stupid ruler is worse than a cruel one. At least a cruel wise ruler won't destroy their own fucking dynasty but stupidity knows no limit.
viserys is such an bad king, the consequence of his actions or lack of action were so bad that put him together with Maegor, Aerys and Aegon IV. Well a least his sucessor Aegon 2 were the king of Sass. His words to rhaenyra were still one of the best burns in the books hehehe.
Maegor wasn`t a bad King. Yes , he was cruel and had his misgivings , but he put Faiths Militants into their place , strengthened house Targaryan. Ruled with Iron fist and made great houses to respect and fear Targaryans. When his brother Aenys was a King there was a big chance house Targaryens rule and Aegons` Conquest would have ended right there if not for Maegor.
Marrying Aegon was not only the best choice but the only choice for peace, is everybody simply ignoring how Daemon is unwanted throughout the whole realm? Would people want him being King, even if King Consort? It’s beyond me why Viserys denied the marriage to Aegon. That man is just stupid and cowardly.
@@tessdurberville711 The point of the argument is: which marriage would benefit Rhaenyra and House Targaryen the most. Arguing against Aegon as potential suitor due to him being disgusting is pointless because Daemon is not any better. It’s also a halfwitted argument because I doubt potential husbands in fictional medieval Europe were being considered on what level of disgusting they were. Pleasing the realm and fortifying Rhaenyra’s claim and avoiding in-house conflict could only be achieved by marrying the siblings period.
Having another Great Council at Harrenhall would have prevented all this there was already a precedent set and how Viserys come to power it something that should have been done before his death.
I absolutely HATED how HotD completely gutted the Laena/Rhaenyra relationship. I needed to see those two dragonriding together living their best Targaryen girl lives before all the tragedy and now we probably won't ever see it. Also the friendship between those two was KEY to understanding the alliance between the Blacks and House Velaryon. Thanks HBO.
Viserys I is the type of guy to say Que Sera Sera & forget we still have a problem. He forgot that the lords of the 7 Kingdoms do not want a Queen on the Iron Throne knowing he already had a male child, a rightful heir by Westerosi law & tradition. Instead of using the Targaryen custom of incestuous marriage, he faied to unite both. Also, instead of proving Rhaenyra's capabilities as ruler by making her his Hand when he was still well, he let the Hightowers have that power. Thus end up to the Dance that destroyed their family & might. This was Viserys Targaryen legacy.
He could have avoided the whole conflict. The most obvious choice is to make Aegon II king as he was the male heir. The male line will always triumph over the female line. Rhaneyra sons would be Velaryon. Corlys would never allow his grandson to change his name from Velaryon to Targaryen. Corlys would have started this war as he often threatened to use his fleet and dragons to have his way
He should have never married Allison, the conflict of interest was too obvious. If he married her, he should have replaced Otto immediately, keeping him far away from Kings Landing. As soon as he got a male heir, he should have made the choice to relieve Rhaenyra or if keeping her as the heir, made sure he had every lord re swear loyalty to her, specially as the lords were replaced by their own heirs. He should have never allowed Allison to have the ability to be so blatant about picking the Hightowers side. That caused obvious divisions, when her loyalty should have been with the Targaryen blood line. He should have never allowed Otto to cause a division between him and Damon. They were the future of the Targaryen family and he was having issues getting a male heir. He should have protected their bond. Damon should have been married to Rhaenyra from the start.
infamous very honest opinion is that Jaehaerys was the one who ruined the Targayens, when he let the lords make choic whom they want as a ruler. He gave them power by that. Until then they had the illusion that no one can beat them in their own game, but after that they realized that they actualy have power to decide who they want to see on the throne, which means automaticaly that that person not necesarily have to be a Targaryen. Varys was right “Power resides where men believe it resides. It’s a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”
I disagree. There were two claimants ready to tear the realm apart and he saw this. Jahaerys knew of Corlys' and Daemon's ambition. Both would back their preferred monarch. Hence, by letting the lords vote, the losing side will see how disadvantaged they would be without other lords. It would also give the person who won the majority a legitimacy beyond inheritance because he was voted in.
Jaehaerys was wise and prevented his house from tearing itself down in a stupid civil war after him, Viserys was stupid and allowed literally what Jaehaerys prevented happen.
Viserys should never have remarried if he truly wanted Rhaenyra to succeed him. He should never have chanced having a legitimate male offspiring that could challenge Rhaenyra’s claim. Him being “chosen” by the lords of Westeros over his cousin Rhaenys, he knew how these lords vassal think.
Tryin real hard to keep Viserys and Paddy separate here 😅. The title made me do a sad face before clicking lol. Paddy's Vissy was a beaut, but Viserys himself really did do the dynasty dirty.
Honestly, Viserys should’ve just disinherited Rhaenyra as soon as Aegon was born, and then manned up and actually raised his son to be a king. Send Rhaenyra to Driftmark to live with Laenor’s family (where hopefully Rhaenys can keep her from having bastards), keep Daemon away, and so many problems would be solved.
Sad thing was Viserys didn’t make a lot of mistakes in his reign problem was the mistakes he did make were massive and extremely destabilizing for his dynasty.
There are a lot of alliance issues that Viserys avoided. For example, if he had married, Laena, then any son from that marriage would have automatically had an alliance with the Velaryons. He marries Aegon to his own sister meaning that Aegon is not wed to a different great or minor house. This also means that Helaena can't be used for a marriage pact either.
1:00 lmao my exact reaction. I can sympathize with George as someone who always wants to move onto their most recent story idea (I often do when I'm thinking of ideas for TTRPG games) but he's a professional author and father of one of the best fantasy series ever made that STILL isn't finished after nearly 30 years. Finish the books man!!
Team black Stan’s always say he was the best king ever and I’m just like “all of this could have been avoided if he was a better king” but I also like the theory that the Red God was working through Viserys to fuck shit up so that the Dance could happen which results in Aegon the younger sitting the throne so that eventually Jon Snow, the Prince that was Promised, was born.
I love how we all say “true” or “in reality” when referring to these books being written by biased authors or biased POV characters. Like as if this stuff actually happened. It really shows what a spectacular job GRMM has done with his writing.
In the show Viserys says he’s sick of “this fkn politicking” and yet doing that “fkn politicking” even ONCE after naming Rhaenyra heir could’ve prevented the Dance. But he just wanted to be happy and see everyone else happy, which isn’t the greatest plan when your succession is unstable
That would certainly cause a war. Even if rhenyra did nothing daemon and corlys certainly would have. Plus at that point viserys has no dragons on his side. Rhenyra rhenys daemon and laenor are the only dragon riders. Would have left the crown at a massive disadvantge. In a way maybe he should have done that. Daemon and corly would have wiped him and the hightowers out Any lords who resisted daemon would have their keeps torched and fleets sunk
@@drrohanjacob Daemon would surely try something, but Corlys has no stake outside of Laenor marrying her. And despite his actions, he never outright would try to harm Viserys -so ultimately your prediction makes no sense.
@@DanLanningPRTeam My point exactly. Viserys would get wiped out. Rheanyra being the heir was the only thimg keeping daemon from rebeling. If it was alicents son daemon would have crushed then
@@drrohanjacob I still don’t see why Daemon would do that to his Brother and his brothers true born son. I don’t think Daemon’s care for his family is contingent on Rhaenyra being heir.
He never should’ve remarried. In the eyes of the Lords a son will always come before a daughter, but if he was going to remarry, then he should’ve let Rhaenyra pick who she actually wanted instead of trying to smooth over his mistake. He should’ve married Daemon and Rhaenyra, because the the lords probably would’ve accepted her a lot easier if they thought Daemon was the one wearing the pants and really in charge. Daemon and Rhaenyra possibly could’ve had a daughter and she could’ve been married to Aegon or Aemond and more importantly, all Rhaenyras children would have been true born. Her and daemon both strong dragon riders, clearly targaryen with clearly targaryen children, and perhaps their first born, whether it be a son or a daughter could either marry into Laena or Alicents children. He should’ve made rhaenys his hand because it sets a precedent for women in power but ultimately, I think everything is his fault. Banished his greatest source of strength with daemon over and over again, trusted all the wrong people, threw Rhaenyras claim into the dirt by having three sons, screwed over Rhaenyra by forcing her to marry someone that couldn’t give her children, forcing her to have illegitimate children if she wanted heirs, denied her not just daemon as a husband, but as the family she was closest to, was never there for Alicent or any of his four other children. Once he became too sick to rule, gave all the power to Otto, did too little too late basically all the time. .
First point. Everyone was clamoring for him to remarry, literally everyone on his council was expecting him to do that, his councilors were even saying that he wasn't above that duty and that he should take a wife soon. Did we watch the same show here? Most people did not like Daemon and they definitely did not want him in a position of power considering how dangerous a man he was. Plus, Rhaenyra was betrothed to Laenor by the time Daemon got to be available to marry after his wife's... passing. There would be no remarriage since in case you forgot Alicent hated Rhaenyra at this point and would at best drag the proposals of betrothal a long ass time, or just deny them outright. And by this point, House Velaryon would likely have been too distant since they'd have been snuffed a third time in a marriage since in your scenario Rhaenyra would not have married Laenor so they'd likely refuse the offer to allow Rhaenys to be Hand. As for Daemon, I like him myself, but the man constantly shot himself in the foot by doing stupid shit even after Viserys welcomed him back again and again. The having children part is... dumb, that's what's expected of both him and his new wife. And she wasn't forced to have illegitimate children, her dalliances with Harwin were because she just wanted to... do it with him. We hear in the show that Laenor did actually try to have kids with her so if she was patient, she could genuinely have put more effort into her relationship with Laenor. Daemon was gone for most of the time because he had done something stupid and didn't ever defend himself. I will concede that he was not there for his kids with Alicent, but she wasn't exactly mother of the year with how she raised her kids. And this last part... what did you expect? Man was in a lot of pain as he was literally falling apart... and Otto and his maester stooges were literally drugging him so they could rule in his stead, so I don't see how the last bit is his fault in any way.,
@@claudiu-mihaipuiu1221 First off just because everyone is clamoring for him to remarry doesn’t mean he has to listen to them, he is the king ultimately and it’s his final decision, and he shouldn’t have shown more favor for the hightowers, by marrying Alicent, when otto was already his hand, it shows favoritism, and it just looks bad. Daemon was very respected as a warrior and a dragon rider, people feared him which did make them want to get rid of him, but he was respected, and I think he would’ve made rhaenyra command respect as well by being by her side, and yes it’s expected that visery‘s have children obviously if he marries, what’s not expected is him keeping his daughter as heir without really teaching her any of the responsibilities and overlooking this huge mess he’s made by putting her with Laenor. Could laenor and Rhaenyra have tried harder? Yes I think so. I don’t think that rhaenyra is innocent by any means in her own fate. If she hadn’t messed around and wasted time, she could’ve got a better husband suited for the position of king consort, but she was very sabotaged for the position that viserys was trying to place her in. He should’ve made her heir because she was the most capable not because he wanted to stick it to Daemon, and felt guilty over what happened to her mother and this was his way of trying to make up for that. His passivity and ignoring all of his family‘s problems ultimately just caused more problems and I do think Rhaenys would have accepted being hand. She’s not Corlys puppet. She’s a dragon rider and it would’ve set a great example, and as for him being too sick to keep holding power yes, I agree but he shouldn’t have handed it to Otto and Alicent. He should’ve summoned Rhaenyra and Daemon back to court and had rhaenyra and daemon made hand and they take over his responsibilities instead of putting it all on Alicent, knowing the ambitions of the high towers. He should’ve fostered closer relationships with his sons so resentments didn’t build up and frankly he should’ve had a punishment for Lucerys after Aemonds eye was taken out. I’m not saying take Lucerys eye as well, he was a child. They were all children, but some sort of punishment should’ve been made. Aemond is still a prince of the blood and his son and even if that didn’t mean anything to him aemond is now the rider of Vhagar. It would be in the best interest of all for Aemond to not have all this resentment built up. Alicent may have not been the perfect mother, but she was the only one there for her children, and she loved them as best as she was able to given the circumstances of their birth. She didn’t have the privilege of being a dragon rider, and just being able to decide to do whatever she wanted to do. She didn’t have the privilege of her father’s favor protecting any indiscretion she may have indulged upon. Her faith is what she had, her armor. She did the best she could, and yet I always see Alicent receive more criticism for the way aegon turned out than Viserys, who forced one woman to have children until her death and put four children into Alicent without ever really seeing any of them. I’ve been a fan of this world for over a decade and I understand it perfectly. This is my interpretation of it and my opinion so don’t be condescending.
The problem with House Targaryen is the consolidation of the power of the house on the king. Each house has a main lord to guide their respective people to allow their house to prosper independant of the impact on other territories. The Targaryens on the other hand are forced to build relationships to maintain power but don't generate lasting wealth that comparatively allows for other realms to be stable. Everything is essentially tied to the crown meaning that a poor king will mean a poor Targaryen head of house which will in turn diminish the power of the house overall.
After watching season 1 of HotD and getting better aquainted with the source material and lore...I cant help but be a Green, and place the blame for nearly everything at the feet of both Viserys and his declared heir. Both of them made several key decisions that actively worked against their intended goal, multiple times. King Viserys I declared Rhaenyra his heir in order to secure the succession...from his brother. Why? Honestly, I cant understand the legitimacy behind this. His entire claim to being King in the first place is based on females not being legitimate lines of succession. If he at any point stops believing this, then it seems the person with the most legitimate claim would be his cousin, the "Queen that never was". But even beyond this logical hypocrisy, there is no legitimate reason to work against his brothers claim. Its petty BS being put above the good of the realm. If the King dies without a male heir, and we keep in mind the fact that it is a point of law and the voted desire of the lords of the realm to not legitimize female claims, then the most peaceful and lawful succession SHOULD be to his brother, putting aside his petty beefs with his brother. But then none of that should even come to matter, because he DOES end up with a son, two in fact. Yet instead of bringing the realm together in the name of peace and sound judgement, he refuses to allow either of his sons to be named as the heir, standing by Princess Rhaenyra by keeping her as the heir...but at no point does he actually invest in preparing her for the realities of rulership, nor does he try and put her in a diplomatic role of interacting with the lords of the realm in some formal role or capacity in order to endure them to her on a personal level in order to have her transition into rulership with ease and less bumps in the road. Instead, she is basically ignored and left to her own devices to simply exist in a sort of limbo between just being one of many royals, and being the "declared" heir. And this is where she really starts to dig her own grave as well. While growing more confident with her "destiny" of one day becoming the Queen on the Throne, she makes several choices which ANYONE would know would work against her, chief among them choosing to have an affair and bear multiple bastards as her first borns, knowing full well that she was married with a fellow Valyrian and that having a child with any other features besides silver hair and purple eyes would end up being a massive issue. She becomes dogmatically enshrined to the idea her being the heir and being the queen, but doesnt even think about her own line of succession after her and what having multiple bastards could mean for her claims and support down the road, not to mention the damage it would bring to her husbands own house. She has brief moments where she thinks about her future support to place her on the Throne, but for most of her life after being declared heir, she acts as if the Throne is not only a right, but an automatic right, and that no matter what she does everyone will just bend the knee and allow her accession. Especially in the HBO universe, she is basically the Valyrian version of HBO Sansa Stark. She starts off an ignorantly selfish idiot, has a few moments of growth and redemption where you can maybe start taking this person seriously, and then crashes to the floor and ends up in the basement as being even worse than how she started. And this brings me to why I cant help but be a Green. King Viserys was a craven and content fool, and never understood how the rest of the kingdoms could think or feel or see different to him about matters relating to the throne and to the royal family, and the further in his reign, the more problematic this foundational mindset became. But at the end of his life, he had 2 legitimate sons whose lineage no one could question, and whose support would be unquestioned. And on the other side, is the female "heir" whose claim mean dogwater in the face of legality and precedent, and whose own children are obvious bastards and put everything into further question (note: already at this point, it has been soundly established at almost every generation that bastards sired by the monarch outside of marriage hold no real claim to the throne, even if they are the first born male of the monarch, and this idea would be upheld throughout history), meaning that even IF everyone could agree to let her be Queen, the very next generation would again throw everything into chaos and civil war over legitimacy of claims due to HER stupidity at refusing to allow her children's obvious bastardry to be acknowledged in her life. Being objective and stepping away from personal opinions and theories about what each person may or may not have done with the power of the throne, one cant help but come to the conclusion that the Greens have the legitimate claim, and that if Rhaenyra had just stepped aside, then so much bloodshed could have been prevented. She had the weaker claim, held no real power, and had made it to where her own heirs would have another civil war over claims the moment she died unless she would ever have been willing to acknowledge her first 3 children as bastards and recognize her son Aegon as the heir, but we all know she would never have done this and would have insisted that Jace was a trueborn and the heir to the Throne, and the Game of Claims would happen all over again. Even if technically the Blacks win in the end by having Aegon III crowned to end the Dance, the victor of a conflict (especially a civil war) isnt always the side with a "better" claim.
The way to win was obvious. Dont kill aemma for the baby. That negates everything and leaves the real decision maker alive. If Aemma would have lived, none of this happens.
Aemma said this was her last kid. so if there's no kids forthcoming from Viserys' line, that means if Daemon has a son, some might start thinking he's the rightful king. and we're right back to square one. unless aemma living means viserys doesn't disinherit daemon as heir and it goes to his line anyway
It seems like Viserys could have probably stopped most of the Chaos by ending Daemons marriage to Royce and then letting him marry Rhaenyra right off the bat, that way the Hightowers don’t have to come into the picture and the Velaryons could be felt with later on
@@DillsyYourDaddy67 both Rhaenyra and Aegon opposed the idea, and so did alysent. Plus Rhaenyra might be to old to have kids by the time Aegon is old enough to
@@DillsyYourDaddy67 yeah same, and in the books even if they married at Rhaenyra 26 and Aegon 16 it wasn’t a long enough window especially given the child mortality rates in the targ dynasty
the worst thing this guy did was keep rhaenyra as heir and thus split the court. the court would have remained even if he was fully supportive of rhaenyra, but if he made it clear that his fully supported Aegon, even if she wanted to Rhaenyra would beable to do nothing more than cry about it to whatever lord she should have been sold to like a good princess.
Ya it made zero sense. It’s supposed to be like The Anarchy but in that case there was no son and Stephen was just the next male from another branch of the family. They’d never in a million years have supported Matilda’s claim, had Stephen been her younger half brother.
i loved his reign because of his sons .. i wish we can know more about viserys's i reign .. and if so many tourney's held during his sons adulthood aegon and aemond and daeron
Shouldve married rhaenyra to aegon the 3rd. This all couldve been prevented if viserys just didnt name an heir amd remarried. Waiting for aegon the 3rd to be born and rhaenyra would not have a claim.
You mean Aegon the second? Or do you actually mean the third? Because Aegon III is Rhaenyra’s son. He’s not born until after Viserys is already nearly dead
I know absolutely nothing about game of thrones and I have only watched House of the Dragon and Viserys was actually one of my favorite characters, his entrance and walk to the throne despite him being on deaths door was a tear jerker ngl. But yes I agree, he didn't seem like a terrible person but he was neutral and avoidant to any form of negativity and it caused his wife and daughter to have a conflict that would drag everyone into it to fight on their behalf.
Weak, foolish, hypocrite, pathetic and lawbreaker. This is what would define Viserys in my opinion. Every decision he made has led to disaster. He ignored the agnatic law of succession which allowed him to become king in the first place. He never held his daughter accountable for her doings, instead he allowed her and Daemon to publicly murder a Velaryon for telling the truth, he also removed other Velaryon tongues who tried to seak justice for Vaemond. He married the daughter of a second son of Hightower instead of Laena to reunify the two houses with dragons at the time. He allowed too many people to control dragons, therefore 3 houses had an hold on them (Targaryen, Hightower, Velaryon). He should have done the same thing his grandfather did : Hold a great council at Harrenhal to elect the next ruler. But because he knew the lords would have never chosen his daughter he didn't do it and remained willingly blind. He renaimed Otto Hightower his hand knowing perfectly his ambitions. Viserys is no doubt one of the worst Targaryen king ever.
I feel like the reign of Daeron the Good was the last blip in Targaryen power. There were many living heirs at the beginning of Sir Duncan the Talls story. It's not until the trial by seven that their power goes into an unfixable descent.
If Aegon V was able to keep his children in line and prevent them from marrying each other or peasants, they probably could've held onto power for longer.
The smartest thing Viserys could have done if he wanted Rhaenyra to be Queen without the drama, was to abdicate the throne when it became apparent to him that he was sick enough for Otto and Alicent to be taking over his duties.
Maybe, but we have no idea if abdication is even a function in Westeros.
@@aaroncohen2700 we don’t know that it wasn’t a thing, either…🤷🏻♀️ Otto was basically functioning as King at that point, so why not Rhaenyra? She was an adult by that time, anyway. Look, Viserys was bucking the system already by naming his daughter as heir to the Iron Throne. It wouldn’t have been that big of a deal to take it one step further and abdicate, especially if he had ANY idea that there was going to be chaos (either from Alicent, her children, the other lords of the kingdom, or from the common folk) over Rhaenyra being heir when he also had a true born son. And of course he knew, as Alicent and Aemond/Aegon, and even Vaemond kept bringing up the fact that her children were bastards. He could have EASILY put a stop to it before it even started. He should have been training Rhaenyra up right alongside of him the entire time. He was a good father, but not an ineffective problem-solver and ruler.
They wouldn't be a book then 😂
The smartest thing would have been to give Rhaenyra to Daemon when he asked him for her. If Viserys wanted Rhaenyra to be queen, he should have known she was going to need help. Daemon could have given it. Viserys should have seen that.
Rhaenyra is the kind of girl that you don't bring home to momma. However, Viserys could not have known that until it was too late. Rhaenyra's goose was cooked and she was disqualified from being Queen the moment she gave birth to Harland Strong's first bastard. That is treason of the highest order. It breaks the most basic social contract and no society composed of men and women could accept it even if they wanted to.
Marrying her to Daemon would most likely have prevented Rhaenyra's lady parts from betraying her because Daemon is the one her lady parts really wanted AND he had a high enough station that he could have actually married her so she wouldn't have had to hide their relationship.
@@darriuscole8544YES!
Paddy not getting that emmy was a crime against humanity
If the Emmys, Oscars, etc. awarded the best performance, rather than the most popular sob story on social media, he would surely have won.
Was shocked when I learned he didn't, his performance was one of the most brilliant ones I've ever seen.
Was he nominated at the very least?
@@Dani_1012 nope
The Emmys are team green
Viserys had so many chances of avoiding the dance of dragons. Hell, he could have ended most conflicts by marrying Rhaenyra to Daemon earlier or to Aegon later. Having Rhaenyra marry Daemon would have avoided the whole legimatecy issue of their children, and marrying her to Aegon would have ended the crisis all together.
No matter how many chances Viserys had of solving the issue, he always chose the worst option: Do absolutely nothing.
Yep. It was his aversion to conflict and passiveness that made him a horrible ruler
Rhaenyra was much older than Aegon, especially in HotD - and Otto with Alicent would try to wait as long as possible in order to make sure that she would have problems with giving birth. Also, it wouldn't solve anything, because it would give Greens more power over Rhaenyra - maesters and Citadel is funded by House Hightower - they could pretend that Rhaenyra had the same problems as her mother and grandmother and kill her when she was giving birth. And even with their marriage it wouldn't be clear who would be the official ruler - position of Queen consort is nothing compared to Quenn of the Seven Kingdoms. Consort will not have more power/duties than the main ruler will allow them to have. And they would block Rhaenyra from gaining access to power and authority.
He should have never sent Damon away and allow their relationship to be wedged by Otto.
George wanted the story to be this way. If I remember correctly, he intended to make Rhaenyra and Harwin actually married in the first version of the manuscript but changed that so the boys would be bastards.
@@aileenpi73 I don't think that was the biggest mistake tbh. I actually think Otto was right in that regard. Would you have really wanted someone like Daemon in power? I wouldn't. The biggest mistake was first of all Viserys remarrying, and not making a strong political marriage at that.
He is the epitome of the saying "the way to hell is paved with good intentions"
Your intentions don't mean shit. It's the actions you take and the results that come from it.
@@mrtyrant1680 really depends. Most people would see a difference between 1 someone baking a cake to be nice, 2 same but unknowing the recepient has an allergy unintentionally killing them and 3 someone doing that on purpose. Or between killing someone in cold blood vs doing it in self defence. Both end with someone dead, so following your logic, there is no difference between them
the way to heaven is also paved with good intentions, i never undestood that saying...
@@DanyelAzamor-lh7yg true, but what it means it that just cause you did have good intentions does not mean, what your actions lead to will be good. If you lack for example needed knowlage, self awareness what ever, you can do increadable harm! It warns to looks closely at your actions and their impact instead of assuming you are above that for you had good intentions. Good intentions get used to justify abuse.....
@@SingingSealRiana
In the end, you will suffer the consequences of killing someone, so in a tragic way, there is no difference other than how it affects you, and in some cases, the people around you.
But this isn't matter of good intentions, is more of a matter of a weak and naive fool making mistakes that could have easily been avoided.
All Viserys wanted to do was play with his freaking miniatures, but the family always stressing him the hell out.😂
I really love the addition of his miniature building hobby. real "dad playing with his toy train set" vibes. all he needed were the westerosi equivalent of cargo shorts and a hawaiian shirt .
@Inkspeckle someone on another video said, he just wants to play Warhammer like any good British man and I died laughing
Viserys was a 40k nerd confirmed
let him play with his westorosi legos in peace lol
Exactly, just let the man play with his GAMERS WORKSHOP MINIATURES
As sympathetic as Viserys is in HotD (Paddy is a gift), he is an objectively terrible ruler. His consistent refusal to address conflict is apparent throughout his entire reign - not wanting to deal with the war in the stepstones, simply sending Daemon away instead of putting him in his place, not mending the relationship with Corlys Velaryon, ignoring the growing enmity between his second wife and his daughter, and later their children. It shows that doing nothing can be the worst choice.
If he had even once decisively done what was best for the realm instead of what was the least unpleasant, he could have prevented the Dance altogether. the show adds his illness as a factor, but even before he was ill he made key mistakes:
1) *Marrying Alicent Hightower instead of Laena Velaryon* : Marrying Laena would have brought Rhaenys line back into the ruling house Targaryen, and placated Corlys who was still bitter about Rhaenys being passed over. Laena had also claimed the oldest and strongest living dragon (Vhagar), and her father was one of the richest people in the realm, with a poweful war fleet, all factors that made her the obvious political choice. Considering age gaps were nothing unusual in feudal marriages, the argument of her age as a hindering factor is really weak. in IRL feudal marriages where one party was much younger the compromise was often to simply wait with consummation until they had come of age, while still being formally married. Since Viserys had declared Rhaenyra his heir apparent, there was no immediate pressure to produce more children (except from people who didn't want a woman on the throne).
He likely married Alicent because more out of loneliness than anything else, since heir age meant they could live fully as husband and wife immediately. She was the daughter of a second son, and it added an outside, very ambitious family into the mix, producing even more rival claimants than there already were, making her a really bad choice.
2) *Failing to reassert Rhaenyra as his heir after the birth of his sons by Alicent* : Its very obvious to everyone but Viserys that in the patriarchal society of Westeros, Aegon would be seen as the heir despite any vows he'd made the lords swear years earlier. In the show this is told directly to his face by Tytos Lannister, but Viserys only gives him a reprimand and does nothing else. Rhaenyra herself is aware of this and tries to talk to him about it, but he doesn't want to address the issue. This comes to bite Rhaenyra later at the start of the Dance, when those vows of loyalty are decades past. Lord Baratheon himself points out that he isn't beholden to the vow of his dead father, and that the Greens make a much more compelling offer for his allegiance (a royal marriage for one of his many daughters). If Viserys had been more outspoken IN PUBLIC, and made it clear to the lords and the smallfolk that Rhaenyra stayed his heir after Aegon's birth, it would have been much harder for the Greens to sow doubt about his wishes after he passed.
3) *Not taking any measures to create a good relationship between Alicent, Rhaenyra, and their children* : Viserys' shying from conflict meant he turned a blind eye to any fights that existed between these parties. If he had put his foot down at the start, demanding they be less antagonistic to each other, maybe ordering Rhaenyra to not just sit on Dragonstone or even fostering her sons at King's Landing so they could be closer with their half-uncles, instead of the mothers instilling their personal feelings towards the other on them, perhaps Aegon, Aemond and Daeron would not have been willing to fight Jace, Luke and Joff, regardless of what their mother and grandfather wanted. speaking of:
4) *Ignoring the rumours around Rhaenyra's sons for years* : Regardless of whether the three kids were Laenor's or Harwin's, Viserys should have taken measures. The moment the rumours started around Jace, he should have removed Harwin as Rhaenyra's sworn shield, maybe sending him to Harrenhall, but certainly away from the Crownlands. If Jace had been the only brown-eyed brunette of Rhaenyra's children, it could have been excused as the folly of youth (she was 17 or 18 at the time of his birth), or even just a quirk of genetics (Laenor did have Baratheon blood through his mom after all, and Corlys' isn't described in the books). its the birth of three children with those looks in a row that really fueled the rumours about their legitimacy, something the Hightowers would be able to abuse easily. By the time Viserys is threatening to cut out tongues, its far too late.
The big issue is Viserys had sons. If those sons were with Laena Corlys would do the same thing Otto did. If he wanted to reassert Rhaenyra as his heir then he just never should’ve remarried and betrothed her to Daemon and just be done with it. Rhaenyra had to combine her claim with either her uncle or whoever her eldest brother was. Basically Rhaenyra on her own would cause the dance.
@@jjh2456 Yeah, ultimately, regardless of whose mother they were; sons would hurt Rhaenyra's clean inheritance of the throne. The only way to avoid that is to not remarry (not feasible), Rhaenyra marrying Daemon (also not feasible), or marrying her eldest brother to Rhaenyra (probably the only safe option).
There is one thing he could have done and that´s when Rhaenyrra proposes marriage between Jace and Helaena, make it so. It fixes most issues. Otto now has his granddaughter, instead of a grandson, on the throne and he would probably be much less enthusiastic about ousting her, knowing his blood will be on the throne, one way or another.
@@jsmth99 Doubt Otto would fight for a bastard's claim on the throne, even if it was connected to his blood. Also I think Helaena was married to Aegon already.
@@stephenjenkins7971 Heleana wasn't married to Aegon yet. It still wouldn't have worked. Rheanyra is still a women with living three brothers and Jace is still a bastard. Heleana would find herself in the same position Ellia Martel found herself in; a hostage with the safety and the claim of her children uncertain.
Even if he'd named her Hand after Strong died that would have been at least *something* to help solidify her claim.
"Then for the sake of this old man, who loves you all, so dearly!"
Aegon: Bullshit.
Aemond: Counting the days until you die.
Helaena: Mother, who's that sad old man at the table?
For real V, you Fucked over you Hightower Kids badly.
At least he didn't make Joffrey Baratheons and Ramseys. Did better than in the books.
You even didn't mention Daeron 😂
@@tywinlannister9391 XD He always gets the short end of the stick.
@@randomcenturion7264 poor Daeron. A shame he didn't became king.
@@tywinlannister9391 He honestly seemed to be the most stable and noble of the brothers.
They were so worried about Daemon being another Maegor that they didn't even realize that they had crowned a new Aenys.
Tywin learned from Viserys: “The house that puts family first will always defeat the house that puts the whims and wishes of its sons and daughters first.”
Tywin took it too far, though, and it’s ruined his family just as surely as Viserys ruined his.
Wonder if that was what he thought when he got crossbow bolt trough his chest.
@@RuosteinenknightProbably, since it was know Tywin was disappointed of each of his children but instead blame them for turning out like this. Not admitting he’s the one who did this to his children, especially Tyrion and how he treated him
Too bad his idiocy made sure that everything he worked for became obsolete the moment Tyrion shot him with a crossbow while taking a shit.
And where did it take the Lannisters? Tywin killed by his own son, Kevan killed by Varys, Genna and her children will probably be killed by the brotherhood, Cercei is going mad, her children are on their way to die, Jaime is on his way to die and in the entire 7 kingdoms they have no allies. His entire family killed by his own greed, so no Tywin was an idiot.
Jesus the Mortality Rate for the children of Jaehaerys and Alyssane was insane
And only those kids, who chose to live far away from power of the Iron Throne survived.
There is speculation that certain people helped with killing the children.
That the tags even got that far is insane looking into what incest does to your genes
Faith of the Seven and the Maesters wouldn't have had a chance to suceed. Study what happened to Aenys as soon as he was corronated.
@@TraciPeteyforlifepffft, what nonsense. There’s absolutely nothing suspicious about any of the Targaryen children’s deaths.
I mean, take prince Aemon, Rhaenys’ dad. He was simply shot by a crossbow in the middle of a war.
By accident. On the side of a mountain. At dusk, from over 300 feet away.
Absolutely *nothing* suspicious about that!
Sometimes doing nothing is worse than taking decisive actions even if they are unsavory
@Lamar8795 Daeron is the only of Viserys' children that'd be suitable as ruler of the Seven Kingdoms.
@@jacklang3314If only had he lived ,he would have been a second Jahaerys the Conciliator .That would have been too much off a problem for george as the targaryens would have ended with another great monarch with an extremely long reign that would result in a stronger and more powerful royal dynasty .House Targaryen would have never fallen and neither the dragons would have gone extinct .The only reason as to why they did so in the first place was because of aegon iii nonchalance and hatred to the symbols of power which make house targaryen special and powerful in the first place .He was sitting on a mountain off dragon-lore at the time and the dragons hadn't yet gone extinct ,If he had truly made a sincere attempt to curb the decline population of the dragons and their respective health rather than making half-assed attempts just to make it seem like he is doing something about it like in the original timeline then dragons would have still roamed westoros and house targaryen would have reigned supreme still
Like Maegor taking BRUTAL actions against the Faith Militant.
Besides Viserys, Rhaenyra made for a poor heir also, she was absent from court at the critical time of her father's failing health, allowing for Otto and Alicent to basically rule King's Landing by proxy and establish connections and gain allies, what did she think would happen she would just show up when her father died and sit on the throne because she was a Targaryen, she should off known that her claim would of been challenged as soon as her father produced a male heir, her half brothers also had a claim and no way she should of trusted Otto not to want his grandchildren on the throne. She should have stayed at court to solidified her claim and undermine House Hightower.
I think a big theme for Targaryen characters is a sense of entitlement. Daemon want to be appointed hand of the king simply cuz he is the King's brother. He can't even understand that he's not qualified and all the tantrums he pulls are making him look less qualified. Rhaenyra basically has the same thought process. She doesn't feel a need to keep relationships and do politics cuz she's the King's daughter
@thomasmendoza7728 wrong one he only wants his brother attention and as hand he have that and he work both with law and coin but otto hate him not to mention he fixed the city guard making them actually good at their job otto kick to curb long ago only about his family
@@paulgroeger33 Bro, hand of the King is literally the second most powerful job in the Kingdom. Yeah he did well at in charge of the city guard but how is he with tax policy? With solving family disputes peacefully? International diplomacy? If he views being hand as just a way to get his brothers attention, then he is not qualified to be hand lol. Daemon puts his own personal feelings ahead of what's good for the nation. Otto is not a great hand, but that doesn't mean Daemon would automatically be a better one
@@thomasmendoza7728 please Name me one thing otto does to help realm falls he does nothing and makes it weaker and then taxes should be for master of coin
@@paulgroeger33 I'm not talking about Otto. I literally said Otto isn't great either. But just because Otto sucks doesn't mean Daemon would be better. They both are bad hands. Lynol Strong was clearly the best hand at the time
I’m ready for HOTD Season 2 to come like yesterday
Same omg please
Me too!!
💯
Fr fr
Yeap 🙋♀️
Worst king in the history of Westeros. I don’t care about other kings who were consciously terrible like Aegon IV and Maegor. Viserys inadvertently in his foolishness caused the most devastating war for Westeros and the most brutal blow for the Targaeryan family with the loss of the dragons. The targaeryans would never ever be able to maintain control over the entire of Westeros after the death of the dragons which Viserys directly caused. The only one who comes close is Aerys II but Viserys is worse because he came into the throne with such a strong position.
Very valid point
He remarried
Allow bullying
Remain oblivious
Have great potential to rule and never try
Maegor was consciously burning the enemies of House Targaryen, not his fault his brother's widow turned his nephews against him and incited their rebellions while there was already widespread rebellion going on. Hard to rule while fighting on multiple fronts and surrounded by enemies both within and out.
Using that logic Aegon the 2 should be the worst then as he's the one that started the war
People always gloss over Jaehaerys’ part in the Dance. Sure, it was Westerosi custom to have males take precedence, but Targaryen’s are well known for breaking those customs. Sibling marriage, for instance, and generally ‘Targaryen exceptionalism’ were initially viewed as tolerable to any degree, but the Targaryen’s made these things happen. Eventually, even accepted as just a part of Valyrian culture.
If Jaehaerys decided to name a clear successor himself, he would not have established the precedent for this to happen in the first place.
Also, most of Viserys’ decisions, if not the best, were at least logical to a degree. When he married Alicent, we have to remember that there were only really Viserys, Daemon and Rhaenyra around to produce Targaryen heirs. If we include Rhaenys, who could have her children count if those three died, that’s still very few people around to claim the throne. Especially if what HOTD claims about the prophecy is true, and destiny needs them. One unfortunate night of assassination, disease or accident could very well wipe out the entire dynasty. By the time the Dance starts, sure, there are sh*tloads of Targaryen’s, but Viserys didn’t know how many kids he might have.
I honestly imagine when viserys entered the afterlife it was like malswrld video when odin was choking ares but its jaehaerys choking viserys with baelon, allysa and aemon trying to hold him back and jaehaerys cursing him out for being so incompetent and causing this mess with maegor helping jaehaerys in trying to hurt him like thats how I imagine their after life
Believe me Visenya and Maegor won’t be happy about the disasters of Viserys’s actions
And Aegon the Conquerors just sitting in the background, shaking his head in disappointment at his descendants, wondering why he bothered uniting the kingdoms if this is what his family did with them.
Bold to assume Maegor isn’t in the “I killed half my family” corner.
Or, you know, Hell.
Jaehaerys being angry with him when in fact he's partly responsible for this mess for allowing dumb lords to chose Viserys as the heir lol.
@@Isuream6331 Bold of you to assume most or all of the people named aren't there
My favorite moment in the entire show is when Viserys is mourning that he never got to go fight at a war. That the Gods never tested him and he only ruled during peace time.
The cruel irony being that he is being tested and he’s failing miserably. Arguably the entire downfall of the Targaryen dynasty can be traced back to his poor leadership
Yup! He wasn’t willing to sacrifice anything it seems. And in the end he paid for it tenfold.
He set Rhaenyra up for failure from day one. He should have allowed her to marry Daemon instead of Laenor, made her Hand of the King, and never remarried himself.
The solution was right in front of him and so simple, it's a miracle how much he managed to mess it all up.
For real Idk why he didn't annul his marriage with rhea they hated eachother and there marriage got them nothing marrying both his hires would solidify the succession but as always he allowed his council to control him .
The show itself explains why. Childbirth is dangerous and Rhaenyra could have ended up like her mother at any time. On top of that Daemon is reckless and impulsive, and those are not common traits in old men.
@@luckychops2162 Even more reason to let her marry and have children asap, and if she died without an heir, then and only then should he have remarried. Daemon wouldn't need to live to an old age really, as long as he and Rhaenyra had atleast a couple healthy kids - if he died while they were still young (which happened anyway), there would be other people around to take of and teach them, and they wouldn't have inherited the aftermath of a brutal civil war.
@@thatoneblackdude3333 Exactly! Daemon and Rhea never even consummated the marriage, so there would be no loss of honour for Rhea either - she would likely be relieved and happy about it.
And if Viserys wanted to please both Otto and Corlys, they could have agreed to have Alicent marry Laenor, and for their kids to marry Daemon and Rhaenyra's kids.
Remember viserys also wanted to strengthen the number of Targaryens/dragon riders
When your decisions are still bad the iron throne itself tries to kill you
The main difference between Rhaenyra and Cersei. robert believed that the bastards are his children. But he don't love them. Laenor knew their children are bastards but he loves and protects them.
Who said that Robert didn't love the children? Robert didn't love Cersei, but that doesn't mean that he didn't love the children.
@@darriuscole8544 he enjoyed punishing them. He knew that Joffrey was a psycho but he didn't do anything to rectify him. If he send him to Casterly rock under the guardianship of Tywin Lannister Joffrey would be changed. Tywin understand the problem and he trained the boy.
I feel like Robert became totally disillusioned with what he thought being a King would be like then quickly found out he didn't have what it took. He also hated Cersei and couldn't forget about Ned's sister. Leads him into a depression and not giving a fuck about anything. Being completely apathetic and miserable
Because Rhaenyra and Leanor made a pact of being a protective family, even though they were not sexually attracted and active with each other. Rhaenyra could have at any moment, to save herself and her children , accuse Leanor of being gay and not being a good consort. They were cousins, they loved each other and they did the best they could under the circumstances they lived.
@@aileenpi73 - She could not have accused him after she had kids. Any admission that Laenor was not the father is an admission of treason that damns her and her children. Also, scandalizing Laenor would have ended any alliance with House Velaryon.
Honestly, it's really amazing how people who have gotten in ASOIAF through HOTD tend to see Rhaenyra as completely the opposite of what she is shown as, the show makes it clear that she is a very meh person who uses her sex, along with other things to her advantage. While I do think she'd be a decent queen, she is not faultless and she is definitely not "wronged." She knew her claim would be challenged ever since she was made heir but she did almost nothing towards that. Her sleeping with Harwin and having his kids was her own fault and it weakened her claim to the throne. Which also gave Alicent more fuel to add to the fire. Rhaenyra wanted everything but she hardly did anything for it, often went away to Dragonstone, which gave the greens more time to plot and bastardise her claim to the throne. People watching the show or reading the books often forget how grey GRRM's characters are, I don't think Rhaenyra or Viserys or any character fits a good or bad archetype. Rhaenyra is a liar as well as a manipulator and why wouldn't she be? She's the heir to the throne and that's how politics works. But she is also a good mother who loves her kids, at least wants to be a just queen, was a good friend to Laena and a good wife (to Daemon lol.)
I see it as Viserys' fault, he wants Rhaenyra to be the queen, yet he has done nothing to secure her claim
Naming Rhaenyra as his heir is one thing, the lords see her as one is another
Viserys should've included Rhaenyra as his rulling inner circle and in his later years name her as the hand
After decade of rulling in Viserys' stead, sort of like the trial run for the throne, the lords would see her as the queen, no matter what the greens say
Instead Viserys named Rhaenyra as the heir, then excluded her, and in later years, handed the power to Otto Hightower.
There are just so many things Viserys could've done to prevent the greens' power grab
@@ilphi08 I agree with you. Regardless, it does not absolve Rhaenyra of her wrongs.
@@bigppisha But her wrongs were more of less the result of the dance and reaction to the greens
Aegon was a twat even before the whole thing.
But one thing Rhaenyra does best is being a good mom, her children were all brave, honorable, courteous, responsible and have loving relationship with Rhaenyra
Alicent's children were all messed up, granted, Helaena was kind of okay, but Alicent put her in that situation leading to her going mad over blood and cheese incident(except the little one that got torn apart we did know alot of)
So you’re just going to overlook that she tried to have Laenors children but he couldn’t “perform” her work around was far from perfect but she found a solution to one of her duties as the heir. Changing things so they’re obviously not “true” Velaryons is a writing choice seemingly just to make Rhaenyra look bad and prop up a rapist as a somehow better option
@@DavidCarradinesBelt Yes to the fact that Laenor couldn't do his husbandly duty, but I'm confused about the rest of your comment - who is the rapist that you're referring to?
I would hardly call Orwyle, A maester from Oldtown, neutral. As he is of the highest rank in an order founded and funded by the Hightowers.
Fair enough. Fire & Blood says he “was thought to favor neither blacks nor greens,” but since the book itself was written by a maester, it’s up to interpretation.
@@CrusaderChris Surely not all, or even most, Maesters are stooges, but of course the high ranking ones should be looked at with a critical eye.
@@Jacaerys4life Maesters ultimately answer to the Targs. If they wanted a pro-Black position, they'd have no choice but to make it. This logic that they're stooges for the Hightowers is mostly fan copium.
@@stephenjenkins7971 no it isnt, the Citadel is literally in Oldtown, the city ruled by the Hightowers, the Hightowers have immense influence on the Citadel and its maesters
@@Dell-ol6hb And any Targ ruler can order their tongues taken if they do anything to displease them. Them being in Oldtown doesn't matter; Targs can do what they want as long as its not against multiple powerful Lords.
Visery's leniency with his dragonriders was his biggest mistake. Jaehaerys would rather disown one of his own children rather that let them become an unworthy dragonrider. At the time his decision to banish Saera seemed cruel, but in the long run it proved to be the right choice.
What’s the story with him and Saera
@@shoazdon7000 Saera was the most rebellious child Jaehaerys had. She was completely uncontrollable throughout her childhood, and in her teens it was revealed that she kept a secret harem of dudes to sleep with. This resulted in her getting disowned and banished, she lived out the rest of her life as a courtesan in Lys.
@@baconian_road_construction damn sounds interesting, George knows how to write characters. You said in the long run it was a good choice. What did she do as an adult that led you to that conclusion?
@@shoazdon7000 she just lived out her life in Lys as a successful courtesan. The point is that he prevented unstable personalities from becoming dragonriders. Pretty much every Targaeryen who claimed a dragon during his reign was capable of handling the responsibility.
You are 100% right that Jaehaerys cares more about being worthy dragonriders than anything else. I wanna add to this by saying that he was specially doting on Saera, going as far as to hallucinate her on his dying days, and only banished her after she tried to claim a dragon for herself. Had Saera stayed away from the dragons Jaehaerys probably would have let her do her thing, it was only when she tried to become an actual dragonrider that he sent her away.
It's funny how a man can be so willfully blind to the conflicts and feelings of his family because if he knew their true extent he would have to choose one and damn the other
Which he did do
@@Blackmamba648 not really. He could have killed Alicent quite justifiably for any number of crimes against the heir. Especially when Alicent attacked Rhaenyra on Dragonstone. That is clearly punishable by death.
@@kekero540 ummmmm he clearly did choose a side he was cold and uncaring to his other three kids all he cared about was Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra did many things that were punishable by death and when did Alicent attack her again ?
@@Blackmamba648 he chose a side but he didn’t choose decisively. He failed to enforce his own edicts due to willful ignorance. Alicent should have been executed for high treason for attacking the Heir with intent to murder.
But he did nothing. The reason why a Vaemond was bold enough to come to the crown in the first place was that Viserys did not properly enforce his policies and kept people he should’ve known were plotting against his daughter by his side.
@@kekero540 Rhaenyra deserved it she asked her Alicent’s son to be sharply questioned after losing an eye that’s pretty messed up and yeah Viserys was a shit king
Hahaha you prove my point, when some people are moved by Paddy's dying walk to the throne. I thought, he wouldn't have to if he addressed his heir earlier. He chose difficulties for himself.
Brooo and even like Rhaenyra asking that of her father, _on his death bed,_ like how selfish/self-centered can you be?
What are you on about? The man named her his heir and made everyone swear oaths they'd uphold her claim, plus, he was adamant that he'd never disinherit her. Hell, that whole walk while he was dying was to protect her claim. He was flaky on raising his kids, but he was clear in naming Rhaenyra the heir. Hell, literally everyone thought Alicent was bullshitting them when she said Viserys changed his mind, even the Green Council, even Aegon himself was sure Rhaenyra would be queen, not him.
@@claudiu-mihaipuiu1221 no, he don't do that officially, and he still want a boy.
@@violetblue1251 My guy, did we watch the same show? There was a big scene where he named her his heir and literally had the lords of the realm swear fealty to her. He even reassured her later on that she would indeed be the heir and that Aegon's birth wouldn't change anything.
Rhaenyra made some pathetically poor decisions over and over. She was definitely not fit to rule either
Of course she wasn't. She surrounded herself with people like Daemon😂
Rhaenyra was never taught how to rule or react to issues beyond her own wants and needs. Her father never trained her to be Queen, he gave her a piss poor example to go by, and the only one who gave her advice was Daemon, who literally only taught her that because she was a Targaryen she could do whatever she wanted which led to many of the problems she caused.
Viserys is a good father to Rhaenyra, but he failed at everything else. He literally initiated the downfall of his house. He should have known better. He was chosen as king cuz he was MALE!!! Why did he think it would be ok to choose daughter over a son? He should have stayed unmarried if he rlly wanted Rhae to remain as heir!!!
Not feasible. Plenty of young men and women have died in freak accidents or diseases and emergency heirs is always needed. It's happened in the overall ASOIAF timeline where entire lineages were wiped out from plagues, and in real life.
If Viserys truly wanted Rhaenyra as his heir without any real drama surrounding it, he should have abdicated the throne to her when he got sick enough for Otto and Alicent to start taking over. 🤷🏻♀️
He could have put his foot down with Daemon, have him divorce Rhea on grounds of infertility and married to another woman who had proven fertility. Or he could have remarried but but formally write down/change the royal laws of succession and allowed for female rule.
He spoiled his daughter rotten. He did not raise her to be a leader.
He was a terrible father and king.
And why did he never actively raise his sons to be better? We see in Aegon how his constant bad behavior is a direct result over not feeling loved or respected. Viserys should've stepped in and corrected him much much earlier
The worst part was that he knew about the terrible relationship between his daughter’s family and his wife’s family but never actually did something to change that. “Stop fighting girls, be friends” is just so idiotic… I get he was ill and maybe that’s a justification but… when there was that opportunity of marrying Jace and Helaena he didn’t take it bc Alicent didn’t want it, but who is the King? And knowing that he lived in patriarchal society never did something to help and support her daughter’s claim when he literally had a male firstborn, it was common sense that some lords and ppl would prefer Aegon over Rhaenyra… just by naming her heir doesn’t erase the possibility of a “treason”. He did the blind eye or just thought that “no, there’s no way the claim of my daughter would be challenged, my decisions will be respected until my death” 🙂
That proposal was stupid anyway, it would solve nothing because Aegon, Aemond and Daeron would still be ahead of Rhaenyra by Andal succession and the family would still be threatened.
@@diegonatan6301 Alicent and Otto are not that heartless so as to attempt to usurp the throne if Helaena were married “into the blacks”. Then Aegon and Aemond won’t have any other option more than to follow what their family do. Now, another thing is if Aemond makes “his own faction” and rebellion… But Jace and Helaena would have made a change of situations.
Marrying Helaena to Jace solved nothing though. All it did was give the blacks hostages through Helaena and her children. It didn't get rid of the legitimate claims that Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron had. Nor would it stop the inevitable challenges to Jace and Helaena's descendants claims since Jace's bastardy would always call him and his descendants into question, or erase the Greens and their descendants claims. All that does is put Helaena, her children, and their future descendants in danger for the foreseeable future and will inevitably always lead to a succession crisis or attempt for either side to take out their competition. All it would do, at most, is postpone the Dance and put Helaena and her descendants in danger which is something that Alicent and the Greens would of course want to avoid.
Visery’s was an idiot. So many death could’ve been avoided if he didn’t do dumb things.
He trusted anyone but his brother and put his daughter life on the line so often.
Low-key a terrible King
👍🏼
Disgusted Paddy Considine wasn’t nominated for an Emmy.
He is directly responsible for the dance. Terrible king and horrible father
the dance is jaehaerys fault for making that pitiful play to choose viserys instead of rhaenys
what kind of logic is that lol, is Alicent and Rhaenyra who caused all this and Otto and Daemon. If everyone just didn't fuck around everything would have been fine.
@@moe5020
If Visery’s didn’t marry alicent it would not have happened.
@@anonymous-bb2dw Jaeherys didn't choose anyone. He did an election , an old version of democracy. Which helped him from tearing the realm apart. Something, Viserys couldn't do.
@@Papaty25 you can't be this gullible to believe that, if he wanted rhaenys to rule he could have chosen her, by making an "election" he knew everyone would vote for the man.
Everything I learn about the ASOIAF universe makes me appreciate the North more and more. I like how hearthy, honest and engaged they are in a positive manner (except the Boltons and some others). Excited to see the North in the 2nd season!
26:18 I had no idea there were two dragons named Dreamfyre. :P
Poor Tessarion.
Common Crusader Chris L
All Viserys had to do was name Aegon II the heir once he passed his infancy. Or, he should've just not married anyone else and just hope and pray Rhaenyra doesn't die in childbirth. Then again, "Hope is the fool's ally", as Corlys stated, but its not like Viserys had been known for logical decision making anyways.
Only way for Rhaenyra to be seen as the true heir is if there aren't any male Targaryens left out there to inherit. Daemon had 2 daughters, and he himself was formally disinherited and wouldn't have been well-accepted by the Realm and Council anyways. So without him, you only have female Targaryens around. In which case, fine, Rhaenyra (or more preferably, Rhaenys) would be the next best thing. Then House Velaryon will likely take the Throne
Imagine if Viserys never married Alicent or had any other legitimate sons, then abdicated the throne while he was still alive and marrying Rhaenyra to Daemon. Maybe it's just me being optimist, but i don't think it would have be that hard
or he if he just had bastard sons with alicent who he cud haf legitimiced if something happend to rhaenyra. :/
@abczzc651 oh yes, already married Borros Baratheon, who clearly was unhappy with his family supporting his cousin, Rhaenys, and later supporting Rhaenyra. Also, always ambitious Lannisters - if Viserys would force Rhaenyra to marry Jason or Tyland, they would seek to overpower her. About Velaryons - it wasn't about their house in general, but about Corlys and Rhaenys children - as the only child of the oldest son, Rhaenys was named "queen who will be" by Alysanne. Marriage with Laenor would unite their claims to the Iron Throne, and would soldify their allegiance to the crown. This marriage couldn't be with just any Velaryon - it had to be Laenor, because he was also a dragonrider (and house Velaryon never had dragons or dragonriders, not before Corlys and Rhaenys marriage).
He really should have allowed Daemon to marry Rhaenyra, or at least reaffirm her as a heir and make a rule that her children will be Targaryens - and then see how many lords would be happy to marry her.
@@ludi89100how are they bastards?.. if viserys and alicent are the real parents then any kids they'll have will be eligible for the throne
Honestly he should've just made it so that, if Rhaenyra died before she had her own heirs, Laena's children would succeed her. That way he can keep the Velaryons happy and if Rhaenyra does have heirs, then just bethroth them to Laena's children like what happens in canon so that both families are happy and there are some spares to have in case. Either way, Corlys would be happy and Rhaenys denial of the throne would be amended through her descendants.
Viserys was a pretty decent person but he definitely wasn't a good ruler as I've seen many reactions to the show think. Just bc he was a nice guy and stuck by his daughter doesn't mean he was a good ruler. Often times he was very passive and wanted to just hand wave away all the problems and drama instead of being firm and tackling them head on. He also stuck by his daughter often times at the expense of other people, like when his own son was maimed. Which obv caused division and resentment. He never fully put the drama between Alicent and his daughter either instead, again, being passive. I think another big mistake was not keeping Daemon on his council. Yes, Daemon is a hothead and not a good ruler, but he would have helped to keep all the back room deals going on from happening. There is no way Aegon could have been put on the throne with Daemon on the council. The other issue was we never saw him actually father his sons. It's like he left that entirely to Alicent while he mostly focused on his daughter. He could have avoided all the division and bad behavior had he just been active in his family's lives and forcing them to deal with their issues in a healthy way
It’s easy to assume being a morally decent person and not an evil fuck means being a good ruler, which it doesn’t. Most of the best rulers in history are evil bastards. Well, maybe not evil but morality wasn’t the first thing in their minds.
Alicent herself wasn't a great parent .At the time of aegon's birth she herself was barely an adult .How do you expect a child to know how to properly raise a kid to one day rule the entire continent or even properly in the first place ? Aegon ii was the mess that he was because of neglectful parenting of Viserys I and alicent herself and the lack of a role-model figure in his formative years .Otto was dismissed as hand which was why he wasn't able to play a part in aegon's upbringing in king's landing
Viserys reminds me of Louis XVI of France. King who was killed by revolutionaries. While he was a good man and wanted to please both sides and be loved. While in reality when you are hit with crisies you must be decisive and sometimes ruthless and tyrannical. To stabilize economy , infighting and promote prestige of Royal Court. Viserys failed to do that although he had very best legacy left by Jaeharys the Consilliator. While former was decisive , imperious , wise and had his decisions made emotionless , Viserys based his decisions based on emotions. I feel that probably was one and only good decision that he made was to banish Otto Hightower from Kings Landing and Install Strong as his hand.
There are few fictional characters I hate as much as Viserys Targaryen I. Even in HotD, he was a shit king and and even shittier father. He never taught Rhaenyra consequences or politics, leaving her an entitled fool who thinks that she doesn't have to work for the crown, had sons but still tried to make a one-generation exception to the law y placing Rhaenyra as his heir (which alienated his younger children and would have destablized the kingdom), and never actually gave any of his children the skills they would need to rule a kingdom. His preferential treatment of Rhaenyra and Daemon showed the country that he didn't care if they did wrong, he would always forgive any crime done by his family. He was a coward who made children with Alicent just to disregard and ignore them, even though just a couple years ago he was so desperate for a son that he bred his wife to death. I hope he rots in hell.
Based and greenpilled
Not quite extreme is my view, but I agree.
True! He never taught his sons anything either and we see how Aegon ended up
@@MrFredstt He didn't even talk to him, how could he have taught him anything. Honestly, are we even sure Viserys knew how to run a kingdom, it seems like Otto did all the actual work, and every time Viserys made a decision, it just fucked things up more for his council to try to fix. Maybe it's a good thing he didn't teach his kids shit.
@@KittyOfChess Exactly. Really he didn't prepare Rhaenyra that well either tbh. And yeah I don't think he was that competent at ruling. It was his hands, first Otto and then Strong, that were the competent ones. He didn't even know what to do about Daemon in the Stepstones until Alicent gave him solid advice. Let's not forget too that a lot of advice he got from his court he ignored. Multiple times he had the opportunity to prevent a civil war
If only Viserys never remarried and named Rhaenyra heir until she had a son, or named Daemon heir on the condition that he marry Rhaenyra.
If Otto was so power hungry, he could have married Alicent to the prince of Dorne, they would have way more power with Dorne on their side
Honestly having Daemon heir on the condition he marry Rhaenyra would've saved a lot of headaches. Yes, Daemon was reckless and can be cruel but it wouldn't have resulted in such a disastrous civil war with the complete loss of all their dragons
@@MrFredstt true, Daemon could have done what Aegon the conqueror did, let the queens rule while he was away on other business
@@Geralds2cents Indeed
@@Geralds2centspoint is that both Rhaenyra and Daemon are cruel and would be shit monarchs
The entire reason why Rhaenyra became heir in the first place is because people really did not want Daemon as king... Have any of you paid any attention?
Never make major decisions when your emotions are running high, he was regretting his wife's death and in his remorse declared her the heir.
I don't understand how, rhaenyra expected to place bastards on the throne. Smh. At least her brothers were true born. No respect for the crown or family.
Rhaenyra's children are her blood, and that's all that mattered. Bastardy only matters when the male blood doesn't continue, but since Rhaenyra was the heir, and her children were actually her own, whether they are bastards or not shouldn't matter
@@MeganAllen1738 But it does matter, people won't so easily bend the knee to a bastard, it would be ridiculous to think there would be no problems, especially since the only royal blood they have, is from their mother.
@saifobaid6849 What? And how is Aegon any better? Aegon's mother had no Targaryen blood. Rhaenyra is 75% Targaryen. And being Queen, she has the power to legitimise her "bastards" (which by the way, they are not, since bastards cannot exist when inheritance is passed through the female line)
@MeganAllen1738 A bastard is someone that is conceived out of wedlock. So if her children weren't her husbands, they were bastards. It doesn't matter whether or not she was queen. That's just like saying a kings son from a whore is the rightful heir, because he is older then his siblings that were conceived in a marriage. Line of recession can't be passed to bastards.
@@fella293 But logically, the Velaryon blood is not relevant to becoming heir to the Iron Throne. All her children need is Targaryen blood, which they have. They don't need to be born in wedlock. One of the reasons being a bastard is such a big deal is that it's difficult to determine paternity, but in this case, there is no need to do so. Whether Rhaenyra's children are bastards or not is irrelevant, they are still her children, with Targaryen blood, legitimised by her as her heirs, and are therefore eligible to rule Westeros. Not allowing her to rule because she allegedly had children out of wedlock (I say allegedly because most of the lords don't know this for sure, but we as viewers do) is a flimsy argument.
Another name for the Targaryen peace could be Pax Dragonus or the Dragons Peace
I would not mix latin in that. The second choice is better.
i believe the dragons peace was already something that happened during aegon the 1sts reign after the dornish wars
Pax Dragonus means "peace dragon". If you wanted to emulate the tradition of naming certain periods of peace as "Pax (whatever ruling power is enforcing the peace)", then the right name of it would be "Pax Draconum", which roughly translates to "Peace of the dragons".
@@balticbvll2987 tbh Dragonus means nothing in latin.
@@8Smoker8 yah
It must be tragic for Daemon Targaryen to see his father and second wife's dragon (Vhagar) to be on the other side of the war.
Dragons choose their riders and Vhaegar chose Aemond. Daemon would understand that.
?????
@@melannydayrethratliff1309 Aemond, who was Alicent's son (Daemon thought Alicent killed his brother Viserys and stole his second wife Rheynyra's throne, so also stoled his throne) was ridding this dragon and it once was his ancestors' and wife Leana's.
I wonder if Alyssa Mae that, "I want to give you 20 sons" comment within the hearing of a maester? You make excellent videos. Cant wait to check out the rest of your catalogue.
Good question!
Solid review. Need more of these videos. You’d run up a lot of views. Your explanation to this complicated family is amazing.
I think another thing people forget was that the small council that voted against Rhenyra's succession was Visery's council, you know, the guys Visery's appointed and gave power.
I find it hilarious that people that "whatever he says goes", well he picked the council that voted against Rhenyra.
It always made no sense to me that Allysane got so mad that Jaehaerys chose Baelon over Rhaenys, when literally all the lords in the seven kingdoms chose Jaehaerys over Rhaena, years earlier, the precedence that a male gets is literally what made her queen
Those are not the same situations. One is a brother inheriting ahead of a sister which is standard in Westeros. The other would be a niece inheriting ahead of her uncle, which is also standard. In Winterfell, Sansa would be behind Rickon in inheritance but ahead of Benjin.
@@thegreatpage5912 but your missing the point that Jaehaerys was an uncle that inherited before his nieces Aerya and the other one
@@billychops1280 True...Aerya would have been the better example over Rhaena. But we have to look at the state of Westeros during Jaehaerys ascension which also played a factor. They had just come off a six year reign of terror and war with Maegor the Cruel. And basically need a strong champion to counter his rule. And Jaehaerys was the strongest contender over the then infant/dragonless twins.
Jaehaerys more so conquered the throne from Maegor rather than inheriting it from him. That's not so much the case 50+ years later during the peaceful period of Aemon's death.
@@thegreatpage5912 not really, Rhaena was older and had an older dragon, she even was the mother of the eldest sons children. So no, the lords just Chose Jaehaerys cuz he was the last son, same way they voted for Viserys cuz he was the eldest Targaryen from the last living son of Jaehaerys who hadn’t taken vows. Plus it would have been extremely stupid to vite for Laenor over Viserys because imagine the Targaryens as a result refused to Mary into the velaryons who were the new royals. In like 1 generation the Velaryons would no longer be able to ride dragons, especially since Laenor was gay. So basically what would stop the Targaryens who are In dragonstone from basically starting a second conquest lol. Plus Jaehaerys wanted his family (the Targaryens) to say on the throne, which is a reasonable desire
@@billychops1280 Rhaena was stuck with Maegor at the time as his Black Bride. So of course she's not going to have any support while she's still under Maegor's power. He could easily order her executed if anyone got the bright idea to replace him with her. Jaehearys was far way safe at Storm's End. Yes him being a man was likely the biggest factor in the lords backing him. But I would say the biggest. Most refused to back his brother Aegon the Uncrowned because they didn't think he would win. No one wants to back a losing team. By the time Jaehaerys stepped up as the new face of the rebellion the odds had shifted greatly against Maegor.
That is why Jaehaerys was more a figurehead against Maegor, rather than Maegor's own heir. No one could support Rhaena even if they wanted too while she was still under Maegor's reach. The Rhaena situation also goes back to brothers inheriting over sisters being the norm.
This truely goes to show a stupid ruler is worse than a cruel one. At least a cruel wise ruler won't destroy their own fucking dynasty but stupidity knows no limit.
viserys is such an bad king, the consequence of his actions or lack of action were so bad that put him together with Maegor, Aerys and Aegon IV.
Well a least his sucessor Aegon 2 were the king of Sass. His words to rhaenyra were still one of the best burns in the books hehehe.
Maegor wasn`t a bad King. Yes , he was cruel and had his misgivings , but he put Faiths Militants into their place , strengthened house Targaryan. Ruled with Iron fist and made great houses to respect and fear Targaryans. When his brother Aenys was a King there was a big chance house Targaryens rule and Aegons` Conquest would have ended right there if not for Maegor.
Marrying Aegon was not only the best choice but the only choice for peace, is everybody simply ignoring how Daemon is unwanted throughout the whole realm? Would people want him being King, even if King Consort?
It’s beyond me why Viserys denied the marriage to Aegon. That man is just stupid and cowardly.
Aegon is disgusting. Rhaenyra would still have had her children with Strong or someone else.
@@tessdurberville711 The point of the argument is: which marriage would benefit Rhaenyra and House Targaryen the most. Arguing against Aegon as potential suitor due to him being disgusting is pointless because Daemon is not any better. It’s also a halfwitted argument because I doubt potential husbands in fictional medieval Europe were being considered on what level of disgusting they were. Pleasing the realm and fortifying Rhaenyra’s claim and avoiding in-house conflict could only be achieved by marrying the siblings period.
@@allexiapassos3490 that would never work out lmao
balerion was so sick of viserys he decided it was easier to die than to deal with him lmao
Having another Great Council at Harrenhall would have prevented all this there was already a precedent set and how Viserys come to power it something that should have been done before his death.
I absolutely HATED how HotD completely gutted the Laena/Rhaenyra relationship. I needed to see those two dragonriding together living their best Targaryen girl lives before all the tragedy and now we probably won't ever see it. Also the friendship between those two was KEY to understanding the alliance between the Blacks and House Velaryon. Thanks HBO.
Viserys I is the type of guy to say Que Sera Sera & forget we still have a problem. He forgot that the lords of the 7 Kingdoms do not want a Queen on the Iron Throne knowing he already had a male child, a rightful heir by Westerosi law & tradition. Instead of using the Targaryen custom of incestuous marriage, he faied to unite both. Also, instead of proving Rhaenyra's capabilities as ruler by making her his Hand when he was still well, he let the Hightowers have that power. Thus end up to the Dance that destroyed their family & might. This was Viserys Targaryen legacy.
I hurt my finger hitting the “ Like “ button “ Keep up the good work my friend !
He could have avoided the whole conflict. The most obvious choice is to make Aegon II king as he was the male heir. The male line will always triumph over the female line. Rhaneyra sons would be Velaryon. Corlys would never allow his grandson to change his name from Velaryon to Targaryen. Corlys would have started this war as he often threatened to use his fleet and dragons to have his way
He should have never married Allison, the conflict of interest was too obvious. If he married her, he should have replaced Otto immediately, keeping him far away from Kings Landing. As soon as he got a male heir, he should have made the choice to relieve Rhaenyra or if keeping her as the heir, made sure he had every lord re swear loyalty to her, specially as the lords were replaced by their own heirs. He should have never allowed Allison to have the ability to be so blatant about picking the Hightowers side. That caused obvious divisions, when her loyalty should have been with the Targaryen blood line. He should have never allowed Otto to cause a division between him and Damon. They were the future of the Targaryen family and he was having issues getting a male heir. He should have protected their bond. Damon should have been married to Rhaenyra from the start.
If Visaerys had made Rhaenyra hand of the king instead of recalling Otto Hightower the dance probably would've been avoided.
infamous very honest opinion is that Jaehaerys was the one who ruined the Targayens, when he let the lords make choic whom they want as a ruler. He gave them power by that. Until then they had the illusion that no one can beat them in their own game, but after that they realized that they actualy have power to decide who they want to see on the throne, which means automaticaly that that person not necesarily have to be a Targaryen. Varys was right “Power resides where men believe it resides. It’s a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”
Bro what he brought 81 years of peace and with dragons the real power
True, he broke the facade of absolute power
I disagree. There were two claimants ready to tear the realm apart and he saw this. Jahaerys knew of Corlys' and Daemon's ambition. Both would back their preferred monarch. Hence, by letting the lords vote, the losing side will see how disadvantaged they would be without other lords. It would also give the person who won the majority a legitimacy beyond inheritance because he was voted in.
Jaehaerys was wise and prevented his house from tearing itself down in a stupid civil war after him, Viserys was stupid and allowed literally what Jaehaerys prevented happen.
Viserys should never have remarried if he truly wanted Rhaenyra to succeed him. He should never have chanced having a legitimate male offspiring that could challenge Rhaenyra’s claim. Him being “chosen” by the lords of Westeros over his cousin Rhaenys, he knew how these lords vassal think.
Tryin real hard to keep Viserys and Paddy separate here 😅. The title made me do a sad face before clicking lol.
Paddy's Vissy was a beaut, but Viserys himself really did do the dynasty dirty.
Jaehaerys’ reign started the problems and Viserys amplified them
Honestly, Viserys should’ve just disinherited Rhaenyra as soon as Aegon was born, and then manned up and actually raised his son to be a king. Send Rhaenyra to Driftmark to live with Laenor’s family (where hopefully Rhaenys can keep her from having bastards), keep Daemon away, and so many problems would be solved.
Me after reading the title of this video:
"I... *pant* *hah* *pant* *hah*....will have your tongue for that!"
Daeron's dragon was Tessarion, not Dreamfyre
Sad thing was Viserys didn’t make a lot of mistakes in his reign problem was the mistakes he did make were massive and extremely destabilizing for his dynasty.
The story would be much easier to follow if the names didn't repeat so much, there are 5 names for 20 characters.
0:57 That's the most George RR Martin thing he could say.
Should have named aegon as heir after he was born to alicent.
Ew no
Love the intro music choice, Quest Master is great.
There are a lot of alliance issues that Viserys avoided. For example, if he had married, Laena, then any son from that marriage would have automatically had an alliance with the Velaryons. He marries Aegon to his own sister meaning that Aegon is not wed to a different great or minor house. This also means that Helaena can't be used for a marriage pact either.
1:00 lmao my exact reaction. I can sympathize with George as someone who always wants to move onto their most recent story idea (I often do when I'm thinking of ideas for TTRPG games) but he's a professional author and father of one of the best fantasy series ever made that STILL isn't finished after nearly 30 years. Finish the books man!!
Team black Stan’s always say he was the best king ever and I’m just like “all of this could have been avoided if he was a better king” but I also like the theory that the Red God was working through Viserys to fuck shit up so that the Dance could happen which results in Aegon the younger sitting the throne so that eventually Jon Snow, the Prince that was Promised, was born.
I love how we all say “true” or “in reality” when referring to these books being written by biased authors or biased POV characters. Like as if this stuff actually happened. It really shows what a spectacular job GRMM has done with his writing.
He hadn't played ck3. He would have known better
awesome video man can't wait too watch the others!!
At least he’s not the worst Targaryen king, that honour probably goes to Aegon IV
In the show Viserys says he’s sick of “this fkn politicking” and yet doing that “fkn politicking” even ONCE after naming Rhaenyra heir could’ve prevented the Dance. But he just wanted to be happy and see everyone else happy, which isn’t the greatest plan when your succession is unstable
Shoulda pulled a Jaeharyes and sent Rhaenyra to the silent sisters and made Aegon heir after episode 4
That would certainly cause a war.
Even if rhenyra did nothing daemon and corlys certainly would have.
Plus at that point viserys has no dragons on his side.
Rhenyra rhenys daemon and laenor are the only dragon riders.
Would have left the crown at a massive disadvantge.
In a way maybe he should have done that.
Daemon and corly would have wiped him and the hightowers out
Any lords who resisted daemon would have their keeps torched and fleets sunk
@@drrohanjacob if that was the case then Rhaenyra (who hadn’t married Laenor atp) wouldn’t have been able to stop Meleys and Seasmoke anyway
@@drrohanjacob Daemon would surely try something, but Corlys has no stake outside of Laenor marrying her. And despite his actions, he never outright would try to harm Viserys -so ultimately your prediction makes no sense.
@@DanLanningPRTeam My point exactly.
Viserys would get wiped out.
Rheanyra being the heir was the only thimg keeping daemon from rebeling.
If it was alicents son daemon would have crushed then
@@drrohanjacob I still don’t see why Daemon would do that to his Brother and his brothers true born son. I don’t think Daemon’s care for his family is contingent on Rhaenyra being heir.
31:17 You put Dreamfyre twice for Helaena and Daeron. Daeron's dragon was Tesserion
Yeah I know. I’m a bit of a goofball, you see
All he wanted was to paint his warhammer fantasy minis in peace
"I finished my terrain, just let me work on my dragons guys geez."
He never should’ve remarried. In the eyes of the Lords a son will always come before a daughter, but if he was going to remarry, then he should’ve let Rhaenyra pick who she actually wanted instead of trying to smooth over his mistake. He should’ve married Daemon and Rhaenyra, because the the lords probably would’ve accepted her a lot easier if they thought Daemon was the one wearing the pants and really in charge. Daemon and Rhaenyra possibly could’ve had a daughter and she could’ve been married to Aegon or Aemond and more importantly, all Rhaenyras children would have been true born. Her and daemon both strong dragon riders, clearly targaryen with clearly targaryen children, and perhaps their first born, whether it be a son or a daughter could either marry into Laena or Alicents children. He should’ve made rhaenys his hand because it sets a precedent for women in power but ultimately, I think everything is his fault. Banished his greatest source of strength with daemon over and over again, trusted all the wrong people, threw Rhaenyras claim into the dirt by having three sons, screwed over Rhaenyra by forcing her to marry someone that couldn’t give her children, forcing her to have illegitimate children if she wanted heirs, denied her not just daemon as a husband, but as the family she was closest to, was never there for Alicent or any of his four other children. Once he became too sick to rule, gave all the power to Otto, did too little too late basically all the time. .
First point. Everyone was clamoring for him to remarry, literally everyone on his council was expecting him to do that, his councilors were even saying that he wasn't above that duty and that he should take a wife soon. Did we watch the same show here? Most people did not like Daemon and they definitely did not want him in a position of power considering how dangerous a man he was. Plus, Rhaenyra was betrothed to Laenor by the time Daemon got to be available to marry after his wife's... passing. There would be no remarriage since in case you forgot Alicent hated Rhaenyra at this point and would at best drag the proposals of betrothal a long ass time, or just deny them outright. And by this point, House Velaryon would likely have been too distant since they'd have been snuffed a third time in a marriage since in your scenario Rhaenyra would not have married Laenor so they'd likely refuse the offer to allow Rhaenys to be Hand. As for Daemon, I like him myself, but the man constantly shot himself in the foot by doing stupid shit even after Viserys welcomed him back again and again. The having children part is... dumb, that's what's expected of both him and his new wife. And she wasn't forced to have illegitimate children, her dalliances with Harwin were because she just wanted to... do it with him. We hear in the show that Laenor did actually try to have kids with her so if she was patient, she could genuinely have put more effort into her relationship with Laenor. Daemon was gone for most of the time because he had done something stupid and didn't ever defend himself. I will concede that he was not there for his kids with Alicent, but she wasn't exactly mother of the year with how she raised her kids. And this last part... what did you expect? Man was in a lot of pain as he was literally falling apart... and Otto and his maester stooges were literally drugging him so they could rule in his stead, so I don't see how the last bit is his fault in any way.,
@@claudiu-mihaipuiu1221 First off just because everyone is clamoring for him to remarry doesn’t mean he has to listen to them, he is the king ultimately and it’s his final decision, and he shouldn’t have shown more favor for the hightowers, by marrying Alicent, when otto was already his hand, it shows favoritism, and it just looks bad. Daemon was very respected as a warrior and a dragon rider, people feared him which did make them want to get rid of him, but he was respected, and I think he would’ve made rhaenyra command respect as well by being by her side, and yes it’s expected that visery‘s have children obviously if he marries, what’s not expected is him keeping his daughter as heir without really teaching her any of the responsibilities and overlooking this huge mess he’s made by putting her with Laenor. Could laenor and Rhaenyra have tried harder? Yes I think so. I don’t think that rhaenyra is innocent by any means in her own fate. If she hadn’t messed around and wasted time, she could’ve got a better husband suited for the position of king consort, but she was very sabotaged for the position that viserys was trying to place her in. He should’ve made her heir because she was the most capable not because he wanted to stick it to Daemon, and felt guilty over what happened to her mother and this was his way of trying to make up for that. His passivity and ignoring all of his family‘s problems ultimately just caused more problems and I do think Rhaenys would have accepted being hand. She’s not Corlys puppet. She’s a dragon rider and it would’ve set a great example, and as for him being too sick to keep holding power yes, I agree but he shouldn’t have handed it to Otto and Alicent. He should’ve summoned Rhaenyra and Daemon back to court and had rhaenyra and daemon made hand and they take over his responsibilities instead of putting it all on Alicent, knowing the ambitions of the high towers. He should’ve fostered closer relationships with his sons so resentments didn’t build up and frankly he should’ve had a punishment for Lucerys after Aemonds eye was taken out. I’m not saying take Lucerys eye as well, he was a child. They were all children, but some sort of punishment should’ve been made. Aemond is still a prince of the blood and his son and even if that didn’t mean anything to him aemond is now the rider of Vhagar. It would be in the best interest of all for Aemond to not have all this resentment built up. Alicent may have not been the perfect mother, but she was the only one there for her children, and she loved them as best as she was able to given the circumstances of their birth. She didn’t have the privilege of being a dragon rider, and just being able to decide to do whatever she wanted to do. She didn’t have the privilege of her father’s favor protecting any indiscretion she may have indulged upon. Her faith is what she had, her armor. She did the best she could, and yet I always see Alicent receive more criticism for the way aegon turned out than Viserys, who forced one woman to have children until her death and put four children into Alicent without ever really seeing any of them. I’ve been a fan of this world for over a decade and I understand it perfectly. This is my interpretation of it and my opinion so don’t be condescending.
the only reason why Rhaenyra became heir was because the lords did NOT want Daemon as king...
The problem with House Targaryen is the consolidation of the power of the house on the king. Each house has a main lord to guide their respective people to allow their house to prosper independant of the impact on other territories. The Targaryens on the other hand are forced to build relationships to maintain power but don't generate lasting wealth that comparatively allows for other realms to be stable. Everything is essentially tied to the crown meaning that a poor king will mean a poor Targaryen head of house which will in turn diminish the power of the house overall.
Love the videos man. Keep it up
After watching season 1 of HotD and getting better aquainted with the source material and lore...I cant help but be a Green, and place the blame for nearly everything at the feet of both Viserys and his declared heir.
Both of them made several key decisions that actively worked against their intended goal, multiple times.
King Viserys I declared Rhaenyra his heir in order to secure the succession...from his brother. Why? Honestly, I cant understand the legitimacy behind this. His entire claim to being King in the first place is based on females not being legitimate lines of succession. If he at any point stops believing this, then it seems the person with the most legitimate claim would be his cousin, the "Queen that never was".
But even beyond this logical hypocrisy, there is no legitimate reason to work against his brothers claim. Its petty BS being put above the good of the realm. If the King dies without a male heir, and we keep in mind the fact that it is a point of law and the voted desire of the lords of the realm to not legitimize female claims, then the most peaceful and lawful succession SHOULD be to his brother, putting aside his petty beefs with his brother.
But then none of that should even come to matter, because he DOES end up with a son, two in fact.
Yet instead of bringing the realm together in the name of peace and sound judgement, he refuses to allow either of his sons to be named as the heir, standing by Princess Rhaenyra by keeping her as the heir...but at no point does he actually invest in preparing her for the realities of rulership, nor does he try and put her in a diplomatic role of interacting with the lords of the realm in some formal role or capacity in order to endure them to her on a personal level in order to have her transition into rulership with ease and less bumps in the road. Instead, she is basically ignored and left to her own devices to simply exist in a sort of limbo between just being one of many royals, and being the "declared" heir.
And this is where she really starts to dig her own grave as well. While growing more confident with her "destiny" of one day becoming the Queen on the Throne, she makes several choices which ANYONE would know would work against her, chief among them choosing to have an affair and bear multiple bastards as her first borns, knowing full well that she was married with a fellow Valyrian and that having a child with any other features besides silver hair and purple eyes would end up being a massive issue. She becomes dogmatically enshrined to the idea her being the heir and being the queen, but doesnt even think about her own line of succession after her and what having multiple bastards could mean for her claims and support down the road, not to mention the damage it would bring to her husbands own house. She has brief moments where she thinks about her future support to place her on the Throne, but for most of her life after being declared heir, she acts as if the Throne is not only a right, but an automatic right, and that no matter what she does everyone will just bend the knee and allow her accession.
Especially in the HBO universe, she is basically the Valyrian version of HBO Sansa Stark. She starts off an ignorantly selfish idiot, has a few moments of growth and redemption where you can maybe start taking this person seriously, and then crashes to the floor and ends up in the basement as being even worse than how she started.
And this brings me to why I cant help but be a Green. King Viserys was a craven and content fool, and never understood how the rest of the kingdoms could think or feel or see different to him about matters relating to the throne and to the royal family, and the further in his reign, the more problematic this foundational mindset became.
But at the end of his life, he had 2 legitimate sons whose lineage no one could question, and whose support would be unquestioned. And on the other side, is the female "heir" whose claim mean dogwater in the face of legality and precedent, and whose own children are obvious bastards and put everything into further question (note: already at this point, it has been soundly established at almost every generation that bastards sired by the monarch outside of marriage hold no real claim to the throne, even if they are the first born male of the monarch, and this idea would be upheld throughout history), meaning that even IF everyone could agree to let her be Queen, the very next generation would again throw everything into chaos and civil war over legitimacy of claims due to HER stupidity at refusing to allow her children's obvious bastardry to be acknowledged in her life.
Being objective and stepping away from personal opinions and theories about what each person may or may not have done with the power of the throne, one cant help but come to the conclusion that the Greens have the legitimate claim, and that if Rhaenyra had just stepped aside, then so much bloodshed could have been prevented. She had the weaker claim, held no real power, and had made it to where her own heirs would have another civil war over claims the moment she died unless she would ever have been willing to acknowledge her first 3 children as bastards and recognize her son Aegon as the heir, but we all know she would never have done this and would have insisted that Jace was a trueborn and the heir to the Throne, and the Game of Claims would happen all over again.
Even if technically the Blacks win in the end by having Aegon III crowned to end the Dance, the victor of a conflict (especially a civil war) isnt always the side with a "better" claim.
The way to win was obvious. Dont kill aemma for the baby. That negates everything and leaves the real decision maker alive. If Aemma would have lived, none of this happens.
Aemma said this was her last kid. so if there's no kids forthcoming from Viserys' line, that means if Daemon has a son, some might start thinking he's the rightful king.
and we're right back to square one.
unless aemma living means viserys doesn't disinherit daemon as heir and it goes to his line anyway
It seems like Viserys could have probably stopped most of the Chaos by ending Daemons marriage to Royce and then letting him marry Rhaenyra right off the bat, that way the Hightowers don’t have to come into the picture and the Velaryons could be felt with later on
You watch the show??
@@nonjabulomangoro1871 no, the show is irrelevant, although I do watch glidus’s explanations of each episode and what they changed from the books
@@DillsyYourDaddy67 both Rhaenyra and Aegon opposed the idea, and so did alysent. Plus Rhaenyra might be to old to have kids by the time Aegon is old enough to
@@DillsyYourDaddy67 yeah same, and in the books even if they married at Rhaenyra 26 and Aegon 16 it wasn’t a long enough window especially given the child mortality rates in the targ dynasty
What great videos you make. I've been watching the saga of kings. Please keep doing the rest of the Targaryens kings.
Alicent was 18 in the book??? Mannnn why does the show gotta make my boy a pedo 😔
Just found this channel. Great detail and solid breakdown. Keep them up!
I slew a thousand of them... But it will not bring him back😢
the worst thing this guy did was keep rhaenyra as heir and thus split the court. the court would have remained even if he was fully supportive of rhaenyra, but if he made it clear that his fully supported Aegon, even if she wanted to Rhaenyra would beable to do nothing more than cry about it to whatever lord she should have been sold to like a good princess.
Ya it made zero sense. It’s supposed to be like The Anarchy but in that case there was no son and Stephen was just the next male from another branch of the family. They’d never in a million years have supported Matilda’s claim, had Stephen been her younger half brother.
Aerys Targaryen: "Hold my beer."
Ale.
He should have named her Hand of the King in his last days. It would have made it much more difficult for Otto to scheme.
Martin plays out his own prophecies. To move forward with the story, he must go back.
i loved his reign because of his sons .. i wish we can know more about viserys's i reign .. and if so many tourney's held during his sons adulthood aegon and aemond and daeron
Shouldve married rhaenyra to aegon the 3rd.
This all couldve been prevented if viserys just didnt name an heir amd remarried. Waiting for aegon the 3rd to be born and rhaenyra would not have a claim.
You mean Aegon the second? Or do you actually mean the third? Because Aegon III is Rhaenyra’s son. He’s not born until after Viserys is already nearly dead
@@Sleepyboi2 yea the second
I know absolutely nothing about game of thrones and I have only watched House of the Dragon and Viserys was actually one of my favorite characters, his entrance and walk to the throne despite him being on deaths door was a tear jerker ngl. But yes I agree, he didn't seem like a terrible person but he was neutral and avoidant to any form of negativity and it caused his wife and daughter to have a conflict that would drag everyone into it to fight on their behalf.
Weak, foolish, hypocrite, pathetic and lawbreaker. This is what would define Viserys in my opinion.
Every decision he made has led to disaster.
He ignored the agnatic law of succession which allowed him to become king in the first place.
He never held his daughter accountable for her doings, instead he allowed her and Daemon to publicly murder a Velaryon for telling the truth, he also removed other Velaryon tongues who tried to seak justice for Vaemond.
He married the daughter of a second son of Hightower instead of Laena to reunify the two houses with dragons at the time.
He allowed too many people to control dragons, therefore 3 houses had an hold on them (Targaryen, Hightower, Velaryon).
He should have done the same thing his grandfather did : Hold a great council at Harrenhal to elect the next ruler. But because he knew the lords would have never chosen his daughter he didn't do it and remained willingly blind.
He renaimed Otto Hightower his hand knowing perfectly his ambitions.
Viserys is no doubt one of the worst Targaryen king ever.
That family tree at 4:30 looks like a figure 8.
I want a show about jaehaerys and his kids
Far too sad.
I feel like the reign of Daeron the Good was the last blip in Targaryen power. There were many living heirs at the beginning of Sir Duncan the Talls story. It's not until the trial by seven that their power goes into an unfixable descent.
If Aegon V was able to keep his children in line and prevent them from marrying each other or peasants, they probably could've held onto power for longer.