It's so sad how all of the OG3 wives tried so hard to salvage their marriage to Kody, but he was never even interested in any of them. It's like he said in the first episode ever aired (the pilot episode): Whenever he doesn't get long with a wife, he just ignores her and looks for a new one.
@@MickeyAtkinsif I remember correctly it was framed as a "joke" like, "haha, if I get mad, I just go to another wives house, lol" but it was very "I'm kidding, but seriously though". The red flag energy this man has always had. 😭
@@catie5939 "it was framed as a "joke" ": You're right about that. He jokingly framed it as the usual polygamist husband's attitude, but when we consider what happened to the family - and what polygamist dynamics are usually like - it takes on a much darker tone. He may have meant it as a (half)joke, but at some point in the past 13 years he started to live by it, too.
@@07Flash11MRC oh absolutely. I wasn't trying to downplay it at all, just saying he framed like he always does: as of it's funny to neglect his wives. You're so right, he absolutely meant it and has done it.
Nancy the therapist honestly pissed me off. My best friend was in an abusive marriage for 3 years. They went to couples counseling and every time, my friend's abuser would scream at her, call her names, walk out of therapy early, etc. And the therapist would do nothing about it and blame my friend for her own abuse. Why is this so common? Therapists should be the FIRST to identify abuse and help someone get out.
Right? This is why I don't watch Pop Psych's reactions to SW anymore, Kody would do passive aggressive, abusive things and Pop Psych would somehow miss it/downplay it. And then he was basically an apologist for spanking kids in another video, and Fundie viewers came out of the woodwork in comments to praise him for the ok to hit their kids. How can people who should know better cosign abuse? It's scary to me. I'm so sorry that happened to your friend, and glad she got out.
I wonder if this is a therapist recommended by their church, and so by definition vested in them staying together no matter how awful it gets, and ALSO vested in male supremacy.
@@emanzeism you're probably right, but non church therapists can be like that, too. With my first husband, we went to three counselors. He didn't want a female counselor. The first, he'd seen as a teenager. Every time I brought up a problem, he mentioned my husband's past trauma and turned it into an opportunity to focus on healing his inner child and wasn't productive. The second guy was just a guy he chose because he was a man. Every time I brought up a behavior I didn't like, he told me that I needed to try CBT so that I didn't *react* so poorly to being treated poorly (not physical abuse). He said the only thing we can control is our reactions, leaving my husband's behaviors unaddressed. I insisted on a female therapist and he picked some new age hippie woman and I was annoyed but I guess she was the only one he felt comfortable standing over me and screaming then storming out. We went for awhile and she helped me see that sometimes separation is the answer.
A lot of it is unconscious. They are observing abuse that the other person believes they deserves and accepts the blame for. Placing blame on the victim resolves any emotional conflict the counselor may feel by disagreeing with the person who seems right/correct/most powerful.
I find him really awful in how causally dismissive he is of what the wives say. I like his wife, but I think he's a bit of a dick. I wouldn't be shocked to find out the channel is feeding his narcissism (personality trait not disorder) and he's becoming a bit arrogant. Kody would start to seem reasonable in that headspace. @@ExtraordinaryMachine333
This therapist infuriating me the way that shes treating Meri like she is the problem. Like hello? Can't you see how manipulative and horrible Kodi is?
@justvibinginouterdarkness I was very confused. It seems so obvious to me. But then, I grew up in a family with a man like Kodi, so maybe I just pick up on things like that easier. I feel like it's pretty clear by his behaviour, though.
As an exmormon I would like to add that the vocabulary Kody uses sounds straight out of a Conference Talk. “Bestow” and “Covenant” and all those words. This is something that a lot of Mormon guys use to sound (literally) holier-than-thou. It really makes my skin crawl and I’m glad you pointed it out because I’ve had it used against me before.
Yeah, watching this video (and others commenting on Sister Wives), Kody’s giving me “I want the power, prestige, and big family of Warren Jeffs" attitude
As a person with a cluster B personality disorder, I appreciate hearing you say that folks with these disorders can be good people who are doing the work in good faith. Being a person with a pervasive, difficult to treat, and *difficult to hide* disorder and hearing people on the internet label folks they perceive to be abusive or just terrible humans with the same disorder that you’ve spent decades of your life seeking recovery from is just crap. I respect your continued advocacy for folks who experience these disorders to be free from this kind of stigma.
I always felt like Meri was the family scapegoat because Kody trained her so well to play her part of being the problem and knew how to push her buttons to trigger HER whenever he wanted to get the heat off himself. Also, wild how that therapist got Meri to gaslight HERSELF there too
I think the reason they go to this therapist at all is because she sides with Kody. If they went to someone who was ethically calling Kody on his shit he would refuse to go bagk.
Wow!! Listening to their “therapy session” was so similar to my therapy sessions that my ex dragged me to. He did ALL the talking, critiqued everything that I was, rewrote history. A month into therapy, the therapist recommended that I come alone for one session then my ex would go alone. We would then reconvene to a joint therapy session. The first thing out of her mouth was…..”What’s really going on?” I told her the truth. She then met with my ex the following week. Two days after that, she called my ex and said, “I can no longer see you but I can recommend two other therapists.” He asked her why. She replied, “I don’t see people who use therapy as a weapon.” He ignored her explanation and asked her if she’d at least keep seeing me as her patient since, according to him, I had the most problems. She agreed. That therapist helped me soooo much and I’m forever grateful.🙏 My ex is a narcissist and an abusive man….no doubt in my mind.
I need you to watch the scenes where they go back to Cody’s hometown and meet up with all his friends from high school. All his old friends literally just sit around and make fun of how big his ego always has been. It’s crazy cause it’s like he has no idea they are laughing at him. Also one person said they thought he was actually gay cause of his flamboyant personality.
The fact that the only couples couselor that Kodi would agree to see was an old one from out of state was a HUGE red flag for me.Was it because he knows that this cousleor will join him in cajoling Mary for her reactions to his abuse? Is it because he knows this therapist wont call him on the the mat for his abusive behaviors? Does he not want to risk finding a new couselor thats closer to home because they might not enable him? These are the real questions
I'm on team "Hey Mickey, we're here for you to pause every 12 seconds". Your analysis of the content is far for interesting than the content itself. Appreciate the videos, fam!
I loved that you briefly talked about how tiresome it becomes to advocate for yourself when you do or did it constantly and you get completely invalidated... And the moment you bring yourself to bring up an issue, the invalidator does the "oh, but you should've talked to me about it! The problem is YOU not bringing this up earlier!" which is so insanely exhausting.
Mickey, I am sitting here crying because you just perfectly described my dynamic with my ex that I was never able to articulate. I never said things the "right" way. I couldn't even apologize how he wanted me to. It wasn't that I was wrong. He was committed to misunderstanding me. Thank you for that. ❤
Glad to hear you talk about narcissism like that. it gets very frustrating to navigate social spaces where people claim to be against mental health stigma but then turn around and call anyone they personally dont like a narcissist. turns out for many people mental health stigma is fine as long as it's about a diagnosis that they personally find distasteful. it's really encouraging to have therapists with platforms acknowledge the humanity of those with more villainized conditions.
Thank you!!!!! Hardly anybody talks about therapists as enablers but therapists straight up blamed me for not controlling my parents emotions when i was a LITERAL CHILD!
I also love how you talked about destigmatizing ALL mental illnesses and not just the easy to sympathize with ones! I don't have a cluster b disorder but I deal with psychosis and the way I feel fed to the wolves when it comes to recognition and support is WILD
I’m so sorry you have had experiences with horrible therapists as a child.. it is so hurtful and harmful to go through that especially when you are young because it’s so confusing and cuts deep due to the fact they are meant to be the people who are not ever supposed to do that and are supposed to help you the most with your mental health and because they are also the adult in your opening up about something so personal with them for them to be awful, is a very traumatic experience on its own You aren’t alone with having an awful therapist as a child🖤 when I was 12 I went to a therapist due to severe anxiety, depression, and thoughts of ending my life and my therapist actually told me I should do it and spent the rest of the session trying to tell why I should and that all my fears are being a burden and everything are true and that my family/loved ones would actually prefer if I did that, instead of having to deal with the burden of me for the rest of their life It was extremely traumatic and I’m now 25 years old and I’ve never stepped foot in the therapist office because I’m honestly too scared to so it really hurts my heart when I see other people say that they also had horrible experiences with nasty therapists as a child.. the fact that those people are supposed to be safe and helpful but instead failed and even caused more damage to their clients just makes me so angry and also so sorry. I really hope that you were able to find a therapist who wasn’t a complete moron and actually knew what they were doing and were able to give you the help and support you deserve🖤 much love
unfortunately my dad is exactly like this edit: I really appreciated what you said about how therapists who do not carefully screen for abusive behaviors can end up participating in abuse. I specifically felt betrayed by my dad's therapist because he came home from therapy with insights like "you should laugh at my jokes more" (directed at me personally). It felt like his therapist was not thinking about how his behavior was affecting other people, only how he felt, which I know my dad is good at talking about.
@@livstylerewind "a lot of people experience that type of abuse from their dads" does not feel like a particularly validating response to me sharing about my abuse but thanks
Idk if this helps but as a fellow survivor, that therapist might not have been betraying you. Abusers lie all the time to make us feel alone. The therapist might have been encouraging him to change to treat you better. Your dad may have been lying about, or deeply misunderstanding what the therapist said in order to weaponise their words to abuse you.
A thankfully past therapist of my dad wrote a letter to a sibling, stating that they should begin talking to their abusive family member again, recommending therapy additionally and, as the final straw, the therapist offered his "services" for my sibling to begin therapy with him. My sibling went no contact with him for a long time and it has extensively damaged the relationships within the family. My dad, who is already retired, was strengthened in his mysoginistic views and denial of abuse by the therapist and even though just about everyone involved would profit from some therapy, I do not trust my dad to actually find a good one, given that he continued therapy with that previous boundary crossing therapist even after the letter had been sent home, my sibling had disappeared and everyone including my own therapist wanted to report the therapist for crossing far too many boundaries. Therapy can be helpful, but some people should not work in this field and create basically dangerous situations for their clients
I’m 100% on board with not labeling people narcissists for all the reasons you mentioned. (And paraphrasing Patrick Teahan, learning about narcissism is not the same thing as healing.) And also, for me, learning about those patterns of behavior and where they tend to come from has been extremely helpful in a way that just knowing that it’s manipulative wasn’t.
I appreciate that you point out that abusive behavior and that most people can “feel” his behavior isn’t great but not be able to nail it down. I see some of this behavior in my own relationship (both on my part and my partners)
My heart just breaks for Meri. I've been in a similar situation in therapy with my abuser, and that thousand yard stare while you wait for it to end... I'm so glad that my counselor had my back, and insisted that I'd benefit much more from independent therapy, and stood up for me.
As a mental health professional, I would not DX Kody with NPD because I haven't assessed him, but I do feel comfortable saying that based on the BX that is presented on this show, he has narcissistic behavior A LOT.
I think it comes up on stream fairly regularly, but I just want to say how much I appreciate your comments on personality disorders. I have BPD and sometimes it feels like…like no matter how much work I do, there will be people who treat me like live ammo. The reality is that personality disorders, just like any other mental illness, wax and wane. I have had times where I was very ill, and I have had times where I don’t meet the clinical criteria. I’ve had relapses and remissions. You can’t get that information just from running in to me on the street though.
Best way to sum up Kody is a line my mom has always said: if everywhere you go there’s a problem, YOU (Kody) are the problem!! Also, I’m a McNugg now!!!🥳🥳🥳
Do we know this therapist's credentials? I noticed she was listed on the screen as "MFT" not "LMFT." Maybe that's just a state difference, but that makes me think maybe she isn't licensed and therefore accountable to the professional standards of a licensing therapist/licensure board? It definitely feels like she is allowing Kody to run the session.
tl;dr: It does depend on the state. Some states have strict requirements while others do not. (Which just makes it confusing for clients and professionals) It definitely depends on the state. In NJ, marriage and family therapists aren't "MFTs," they are either LAMFTs or LMFTs. An associate license is for professionals who are working toward full licensure. LAMFTs usually complete 4500 hours of direct client contact over the course of 3+ years while receiving weekly direct supervision by a state-approved supervisor. However, just over the boarder into PA, there isn't an associates license for post grads working toward full licensure. And they can legally practice as just an MFT and call themselves that. There is also no requirement to eventually obtain a license, though I believe they are required to have weekly supervision by a state-approved supervisor until they do obtain full licensure. (I could be a little off with the PA requirements, but my grad program was in PA and I have a few PA cohorts I keep in touch with regularly. Perhaps a PA therapist could give more info). From what I remember, CA and NJ are some of the strictest states. Although FL goes even further and requires that those claiming to also specialize in sex therapy must have additional board certification in sex therapy, which requires completing post-graduate training and education in sex therapy. I only include this slightly tangential certification because as an NJ LAMFT specializing in sex therapy, I decided to complete my education in sex therapy by FL state standards in case NJ also decides to implement similar requirements.
Every time I see a therapist/psychologist/counselor/whatever on one of these TLC shows, I immediately get alarm bells. To me, just agreeing to let cameras in to a session, even if the clients say they’re fine with it, is a big red flag that this therapist isn’t ethical. And if they aren’t ethical (to this degree) then I put everything about them into question. If I started seeing a new therapist, and after a few visits I found out they were like Nancy and were on a reality show in this way, I’d drop them so fast. Even if it took me a long time to find a therapist in the first place. It’s just such a big neon sign that this person is untrustworthy.
Kody is seriously one of the most vile and unbelievably horrible people I’ve ever seen in my whole life… it’s actually shocking one person can be that terrible
As an aside, I love your sweater! Also, Kody is legit a scary person and it's great to see it pointed out so succinctly. My husband watches sisterwives and updated me on what was going on, and at first he was kind of ambivalent about Kody but over time Kody really showed more and more of his bad behaviour so my husband really disliked him after a few seasons. His summaries of episodes went from "Kody was really weird" to "Kody is an a-hole and I hope every wife divorces him" to "I'm so glad the three OG wives have left"
After watching the live streams I went back to watch the first few seasons, and wow, there have been red flags since the beginning but like the vibes weren't absolutely rancid like they are now. I'll be eager to watch any other videos you do on the earlier stuff!
Willing to bet the counsellor was essentially blackmailed by the Discovery Network executives into keeping them together because their relationship is literally lining said executives' pockets, and they can't afford another Duggar scandal. Absolutely shameful.
Kody legit both sets up/moves goal posts and plays Lucy with Charlie Brown, yanking the football away from her anyway. We all now know that there are some kids (ahem, Mykelti) who are now no contact with Meri. This is fine. But insisting that Meri be putting in what he thinks is good enough work on like a dozen other relationships in order for him to engage at all? That's not achievable. And she has no guarantee that he will even engage if she did achieve it.
Kody views himself the way he does because in the FLDS they believe that men who have 3 or more wives become gods of their own planets when they die. He literally thinks he's on the path to becoming a god.
I am currently in the healthiest relationship I’ve ever been in, and am finally starting to unpack just how poorly I’ve been treated in the past. I can relate so much to having felt “unsafe” to bring up issues with a relationship before, and am so grateful to have found a partner who cares enough to hold space for and try to address when I have concerns. Just sad that I couldn’t see before that I deserved to be treated this way. Do you think you could talk generally about how CPTSD affects adult relationship patterns?
The fact that Kodi specifically said he refused to accept any criticism and the therapist didn’t immediately shut that down and potentially end the session is just disgusting. He speaks in vague yet accusatory terms to villainize Meri but avoids specific details (because there likely are none) so Meri can’t refute. This whole episode just gets worse and worse.
I wonder if Nancy is one of those sketchy Utah LDS therapists that the church endorses or maybe a life coach because she’s clearly not up to the task of facilitating properly. As a therapist she has certain obligations and this seems more like business coaching or something for a corporate environment. Very superficial. Also, it seems pretty clear that being perceived as this ideal man with all these wives and kids is more important to him than any reality. He’s only interested in people as they are a reflection of him and not for them as individuals. I think “the family” is coded language for staying in the system and doing whatever he wants (while he abandons them for Robyn). I also think Christine is labelled as jealous, unreasonable, a Princess etc. for having needs and daring to express them.
He reminds me so much of my ex husband. If I brought anything up he didn’t like, it would be turned around on me and everything I had ever done “wrong”. I became a shell of a person. So thankful I eventually saw the light after having our son and left. ETA: I totally felt Christine when she was talking about how she just has to do what he wants. Thank you for talking about all of this, Mickey. I knew the way my ex acted wasn’t good, but if I had known his behaviors were actually abusive and manipulative, I probably would’ve left sooner. I hope your videos help others ♥️
My thought adding to what you said about not diagnosing him also is that it's a reality show and all of these shows are edited. It's not to excuse what he's doing, but more there's things on the cutting room floor and when the cameras are off and without a whole picture it's not the most accurate to say what he does or doesn't have
Ngl, these videos make me appreciate my fiancé so much more! He has never talked to me this way and I can’t imagine having my partner do this to me. I’m glad Kodi’s wives are leaving him, he is not a fit partner for anyone.
When building the home out of rocks, he really just told her “look, you’re just a number to me because it provides me status and someone to give me kids.”
Holy HELL! Thank you SO SO SO much for this. I’ve been trying to understand and unpack the subtle abuse I endured FOR YEARS. That has left me with pretty severe CPTSD. I have contestant physiological and emotional flashbacks that have kept me from living functionally. The flash backs have been getting A LOT better the last two months because I’ve been watching reaction videos like this and relationship channels like BurbNbougie and MelanieHamlett . Im starting to face my fears and learn the red flags. I’ve been isolating myself but I’m finally feeling less afraid of people. So THANK YOU! What you said about Cody in the first few minutes just described how all of my family talks to each other and “contempt” is absolutely what it was and thank you so much for giving me a word to it.
I feel like this is a case where therapy cannot fix this mess (KODY). Meri should go to therapy with her kids. They all need therapy for having to put up with Kody. Kody just feels like a walking logical fallacy and he sucks so hard. He always gets to the point and takes a sharp turn before he can understand. SOMEHOW he's self aware but NOT???? I think he's just always projecting and he believes he's never in the wrong. Kody will always place the blame onto others.
Gosh it was so sad listening to christine(?) talk about the tower activity. She straight up knows that kody does not care and will not listen to anything she says so she just lets him lead without offering feedback. Because none of that matters to him. It's no wonder she's miserable.
So True! Kody devalues what Merri says. My Most recent ex Did the Exact same thing as did my parents. Thank u for speaking Truth to this!! We all need to hear this
And there I was back in the days some 10 years ago, married to a sweet, respectful guy, who used to record this specific reality show for me, silently screaming at Meri to leave! The fact that I somehow ended up in a similar position with absolutely no room to even make a legitimate noise because it was a situationship of sorts, blew my mind, on top of everything else. I sometimes am surprised at how much we can take, and in this sense, as hard as it was to witness all the wives' struggles because I could recognise myself in all of them, it also validates feelings and suspicions I never got the chance to clarify, simply because I left circumstances that I found were leading nowhere. I am completely closed down 4 years on and in my mind, I have cut access and communication already, back then. I hope the women are in better places now and managed to reinstate peace and hope in their hearts, because that's what's being killed, amongst other things when you are entangled with a man that disqualifies and discredits and invalidates you - your life force, your will to live, to create, to breathe, and no, we don't allow anyone to have that level of influence over us, again.
Mickey I would love to see you react to the show Couples Therapy! The therapist on that show (I think her name is Orna?) is really good at holding space while guiding the interactions in a way that encourages mutual accountability
22:30 his comment here about trying to fill up a love tank is fascinating to me, because I've heard about people talking about "narcissistic supply", and to me that sort of sounds like the person who's a narcissist could be said to be trying to fill up a love/supply tank as well. I don't watch sister wives, and I don't know anything about narcissists, but it's fascinating to me that these two things sound so much the same, completely by accident by Cody.
thanks for going through the sister wives episodes! Wether I catch you live or on a replay of he streams, it's been a huge support for my adhd at work to listen to you. These clips and your breakdown of them are so heartbreakingly fascinating. It's so sad that we watched these women and this family go through so much pain and trauma. I also deeply appreciate your ethical boundary to not try and diagnose someone. I have completely stopped watching channels that do for all the reasons you stated. You are a class act and hilarious. Can't wait for the Kody is a shit dad video lol
I hated the rock activity at the time, and it's soul crushing now to see it given everything we know. And I ROFLed when you said, "What are you doing girl, just enjoying the sun?" at the therapist. Seriously! Also I love that you examined the Meri therapy session and broke it down--I missed how toxic it was about her at the time, I'd totally bought in to the "Meri is the problem" narrative. I hope it was edited out that the therapist was probing into HOW she was the problem, but it doesn't seem like she did. I hope you review/react to all the therapy sessions, these are fantastic insights about both the family dynamics but also what we can look for as red flags in our own therapy sessions/interactions. Great video
I did couples counseling with my abusive ex husband with BPD and the therapist was giving Nancy she ALWAYS enabled my ex husband and never took my side. Exhausting and a huge waste of time and money. That kinda made me not believe in therapy anymore after that experience.
It’s all an ✨illusion✨ lol. No I mean I try my best to use heat protectant and heat style it as little as possible but if we’re being honest it’s a lil crunchy and that’s okay with me 🤷🏻♀️
Wasn't the catfisher a friend of Robyn? 25:04 Kody is the high maintenance part in these relationships. And he is not worth it. 25:12 So did Kody with Robyn, that lady was quick to the wedding.
What I saw : “ I don’t really like Christine and I don’t want to focus on the relationship because I don’t actually love you, so - let’s focus on the family”
Hi Mickey. I just wanted to tell you a little about something I experienced. I was in a relationship that only lasted about a month before I got unceremoniously dumped and he blamed me for it despite the fact that he admitted he’d spent almost half the relationship “falling for” someone else. He didn’t like that I made straight white man jokes and said ACAB. And more than once when this came up I very carefully explained to him what I meant by these things, that no, I don’t actually hate straight white men and he just happens to be “one of the good ones,” I explained what ACAB means, I offered him resources on things like a RUclipsr who talks about like anime and things but also is a leftist who talks about things from a straight male perspective and what that means for him and he ignored it, I offered him articles on the meaning of ACAB and he would be like, “eh, I might skim it.” MIGHT. SKIM. He would complain about Male Loneliness and I tried to help him with that and again he ignored that. And aside from the ways this was all just awful to experience (he literally compared me to Hitler!! It sounds like I’m joking but I’m not!!! As a queer disabled person I found this especially fucked up but even if I was the most unimpeachable blond-haired blue-eyed princess it still would have been deeply not okay), I’m now realizing that it wasn’t my thoughts, feelings, and ideas that were the problem. I thought I did a good job of trying to explain myself but I know I’ve been thinking I could have done better. And hearing you say that it doesn’t matter how well you express yourself, people who are determined to misunderstand will simply not listen, really, really hit me. Him turning around and saying to other people “she hates men” when not only had I apologized and explained that that wasn’t the case, and I had ALREADY been consciously altering my language around him, was a him problem, and not a me problem. I still don’t know if he really had failed to listen that much or if he was just using it as an excuse so that he could dump me for someone else while still being Actually The Good Guy, but I’m understanding that that doesn’t matter to me as a person at all. He wanted to misunderstand and misinterpret and he didn’t listen and it didn’t matter what I did he wasn’t interested in hearing and there was no way I could have changed it. Sorry, this is long and you’re not my actual therapist, but it felt important to share with you if you choose to read it. You just said some things I didn’t know I needed to hear. So, thank you.
It's scary how many lonely people do ANYTHING but self reflection and working on their own challenges to connect better with others. Never acknowledging their own shortcomings, always blaming those around them. And ending up full of hate 🙁
@@mariaparabello6344 yes! I very much understand loneliness and isolation but I have a bunch of online friends I talk to every day, so when he bemoaned not having close friends, especially other men, I was like, well have you tried… talking to people? I know socialization makes it hard for men to talk about things deeply but that’s not a thing where you just throw your hands up and say, welp, being a man is oppression actually and there’s nothing I can do about it. People of all genders have internalized social “norms” that are harmful to them and we all have to do the work to overcome them and it’s not different for lonely men!
36:04 and onward. Do we ever get to hear her boundaries, her expectations, her convictions? He entirely railroads the conversation to be about him (even his opinion about what she is feeling, thinking, doing wrong) which is held above everyone else’s wants/needs/feelings in order of importance in his mind. As someone who escaped an abuser, while she is saying her piece about “it’s a matter of how you express your opinion, and whether or not that is okay” he is scanning her words for weapons he can throw back at her later. Watch his face and how he latches on to “whether or not that is okay”? He is fully intending to use that line against her later, either to not allow her truthful expression of negative emotions because what she’s expressing is “not okay”, or for any genuine discussion she tries to have about their relationship will be seen as her telling him he’s wrong and bad and “you can’t tell me whether or not my behaviour is okay!” as he continues to mistreat her. Having solid trauma-related reasons to never watch something like this, I don’t know how she is behaving whether or not she is being intentionally mean to some of their household, or if she’s just trying to release some of her feelings to let them be shared and known if she’s one of the more emotional vs. logical/cerebral people. Either way, I hope she’s not learning that it is not okay for her to have boundaries because he has his “convictions” of keeping her but never allowing her to express her needs.
what you said about kody talking over mary really hit for me. it’s been about 10 months since my last long term relationship with a guy who did the same thing. i don’t know that i would have left him without your channel❤
The only thing that keeps this from being super depressing is knowing that they left and are happier now especially Christine ❤ good for her for doing what she needed to do
was the therapist just working on her tan while Kody was steamrolling Christine, talking over her, insisting his way was the only right way...? she really watched them interact during that rock tower exercise and thought "wow how healthy!! they are really getting along! my work here is done."
Kody never accepts blame for anything. It's always someone else's fault. It's not him, it's them. He lies over and over trying to make himself look like the victim.
I wish you were my couples counselor 😢 i dealt with abuse for so long and my ex husband would abuse me over zoom in front of both our therapist (who was very expensive) and our pastor and they both took his side and enabled him and told me everything was my fault 😢 thank you for this video, you validated me and invalidated the years of bad therapy me and my abusive ex husband with bpd received. Thank you. I have adhd and rejection sensitivity disorder and it was really hard to feel like everything was my fault when i know i wasn’t doing anything wrong. Do you think Kody also has bpd? Can you make a video about how men with bpd specifically derail therapy sessions? I feel like so many women go through this. It’s not just NPD but bpd also. I believe Kody is comorbid with both.
Good Lord Cody sucks so bad! Also, I think Nancy conducting herself the way that she does is very harmful to therapy. Had I seen this when I was younger and saw how she conducted herself and allowed Cody to do whatever he wanted and treated the wives the way he did while also blaming the wives for everything and her not stepping in, I never would have sought out therapy. That just would have convinced me that the therapist is going to take the side of the other person and I'm going to have to capitulate and forget about who I was as a person and let go any of my grievances that I was the problem.
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"I am no longer engaging in conversations with someone who is committed to misunderstanding me" is a phrase I'm gonna keep in my back pocket!
I have a "remember this quote" section in my mental health notebook and I HAD to scribble this one in. Perfect way of putting it. It really resonated.
It's so sad how all of the OG3 wives tried so hard to salvage their marriage to Kody, but he was never even interested in any of them. It's like he said in the first episode ever aired (the pilot episode): Whenever he doesn't get long with a wife, he just ignores her and looks for a new one.
HE SAID THAT?!
Somehow I didn't think this could get worse..
@@MickeyAtkinsif I remember correctly it was framed as a "joke" like, "haha, if I get mad, I just go to another wives house, lol" but it was very "I'm kidding, but seriously though".
The red flag energy this man has always had. 😭
@@catie5939 "it was framed as a "joke" ": You're right about that. He jokingly framed it as the usual polygamist husband's attitude, but when we consider what happened to the family - and what polygamist dynamics are usually like - it takes on a much darker tone. He may have meant it as a (half)joke, but at some point in the past 13 years he started to live by it, too.
@@07Flash11MRC oh absolutely. I wasn't trying to downplay it at all, just saying he framed like he always does: as of it's funny to neglect his wives.
You're so right, he absolutely meant it and has done it.
Nancy the therapist honestly pissed me off. My best friend was in an abusive marriage for 3 years. They went to couples counseling and every time, my friend's abuser would scream at her, call her names, walk out of therapy early, etc. And the therapist would do nothing about it and blame my friend for her own abuse. Why is this so common? Therapists should be the FIRST to identify abuse and help someone get out.
Right? This is why I don't watch Pop Psych's reactions to SW anymore, Kody would do passive aggressive, abusive things and Pop Psych would somehow miss it/downplay it. And then he was basically an apologist for spanking kids in another video, and Fundie viewers came out of the woodwork in comments to praise him for the ok to hit their kids. How can people who should know better cosign abuse? It's scary to me.
I'm so sorry that happened to your friend, and glad she got out.
I wonder if this is a therapist recommended by their church, and so by definition vested in them staying together no matter how awful it gets, and ALSO vested in male supremacy.
@@emanzeism you're probably right, but non church therapists can be like that, too. With my first husband, we went to three counselors. He didn't want a female counselor. The first, he'd seen as a teenager. Every time I brought up a problem, he mentioned my husband's past trauma and turned it into an opportunity to focus on healing his inner child and wasn't productive. The second guy was just a guy he chose because he was a man. Every time I brought up a behavior I didn't like, he told me that I needed to try CBT so that I didn't *react* so poorly to being treated poorly (not physical abuse). He said the only thing we can control is our reactions, leaving my husband's behaviors unaddressed. I insisted on a female therapist and he picked some new age hippie woman and I was annoyed but I guess she was the only one he felt comfortable standing over me and screaming then storming out. We went for awhile and she helped me see that sometimes separation is the answer.
A lot of it is unconscious. They are observing abuse that the other person believes they deserves and accepts the blame for. Placing blame on the victim resolves any emotional conflict the counselor may feel by disagreeing with the person who seems right/correct/most powerful.
I find him really awful in how causally dismissive he is of what the wives say. I like his wife, but I think he's a bit of a dick. I wouldn't be shocked to find out the channel is feeding his narcissism (personality trait not disorder) and he's becoming a bit arrogant. Kody would start to seem reasonable in that headspace. @@ExtraordinaryMachine333
This therapist infuriating me the way that shes treating Meri like she is the problem. Like hello? Can't you see how manipulative and horrible Kodi is?
For a split second I thought you meant me and I was so offended lol. Glad I read it again!
@MickeyAtkins Oh, phew. No, you made fantastic points. Love your videos!
lol same i thought you meant mickey for a sec! But you are right, this therapist was really just there for a beach trip it seemed
@justvibinginouterdarkness I was very confused. It seems so obvious to me. But then, I grew up in a family with a man like Kodi, so maybe I just pick up on things like that easier. I feel like it's pretty clear by his behaviour, though.
Kody already started with Nancy by saying I'm not open to criticism.
Kody: "And I'm not trying to blame Meri here - "
Mickey: "You are."
As an exmormon I would like to add that the vocabulary Kody uses sounds straight out of a Conference Talk. “Bestow” and “Covenant” and all those words. This is something that a lot of Mormon guys use to sound (literally) holier-than-thou. It really makes my skin crawl and I’m glad you pointed it out because I’ve had it used against me before.
Ooooh I didn’t know that! Thanks for telling me that bc I’ve been so confused why he has such a strange vocabulary!
Yeah, watching this video (and others commenting on Sister Wives), Kody’s giving me “I want the power, prestige, and big family of Warren Jeffs" attitude
Really got that. Used certain words on his wives to sound like a leader. Annoying
As a person with a cluster B personality disorder, I appreciate hearing you say that folks with these disorders can be good people who are doing the work in good faith. Being a person with a pervasive, difficult to treat, and *difficult to hide* disorder and hearing people on the internet label folks they perceive to be abusive or just terrible humans with the same disorder that you’ve spent decades of your life seeking recovery from is just crap. I respect your continued advocacy for folks who experience these disorders to be free from this kind of stigma.
Betcha Nancy was far from their first therapist and kody forced them to shop around til he found one that wouldn't call him out immediately.
I always felt like Meri was the family scapegoat because Kody trained her so well to play her part of being the problem and knew how to push her buttons to trigger HER whenever he wanted to get the heat off himself.
Also, wild how that therapist got Meri to gaslight HERSELF there too
I think the reason they go to this therapist at all is because she sides with Kody. If they went to someone who was ethically calling Kody on his shit he would refuse to go bagk.
Most definately
I wonder how many times that exact thing happened before and after this therapist.
Going to a therapist with an abusive partner is so high stakes. You have to fear they will manipulate the therapist into abusing you also.
Wow!! Listening to their “therapy session” was so similar to my therapy sessions that my ex dragged me to. He did ALL the talking, critiqued everything that I was, rewrote history. A month into therapy, the therapist recommended that I come alone for one session then my ex would go alone. We would then reconvene to a joint therapy session. The first thing out of her mouth was…..”What’s really going on?” I told her the truth. She then met with my ex the following week. Two days after that, she called my ex and said, “I can no longer see you but I can recommend two other therapists.” He asked her why. She replied, “I don’t see people who use therapy as a weapon.” He ignored her explanation and asked her if she’d at least keep seeing me as her patient since, according to him, I had the most problems. She agreed. That therapist helped me soooo much and I’m forever grateful.🙏 My ex is a narcissist and an abusive man….no doubt in my mind.
good therapist!
Wow you found an angel. You're very blessed.
Glad you kept the therapist and ditched the ex!!
Same situation here. He went to therapy to "fix me."
I need you to watch the scenes where they go back to Cody’s hometown and meet up with all his friends from high school. All his old friends literally just sit around and make fun of how big his ego always has been. It’s crazy cause it’s like he has no idea they are laughing at him. Also one person said they thought he was actually gay cause of his flamboyant personality.
When kodi doesn’t even know the word boundary
Oh, he knows the word "boundary", but only when it comes to state boundaries
The fact that the only couples couselor that Kodi would agree to see was an old one from out of state was a HUGE red flag for me.Was it because he knows that this cousleor will join him in cajoling Mary for her reactions to his abuse? Is it because he knows this therapist wont call him on the the mat for his abusive behaviors? Does he not want to risk finding a new couselor thats closer to home because they might not enable him?
These are the real questions
I'm on team "Hey Mickey, we're here for you to pause every 12 seconds". Your analysis of the content is far for interesting than the content itself. Appreciate the videos, fam!
*more
👍
Ohhh no… when you were talking about Kody’s contempt it hit me. That’s why it bothers me so much when my dad treats me and my sister like that 😭
I loved that you briefly talked about how tiresome it becomes to advocate for yourself when you do or did it constantly and you get completely invalidated... And the moment you bring yourself to bring up an issue, the invalidator does the "oh, but you should've talked to me about it! The problem is YOU not bringing this up earlier!" which is so insanely exhausting.
He is always very open to others changing to please him, yes, he’s very open to that. 🙄🤣
Mickey, I am sitting here crying because you just perfectly described my dynamic with my ex that I was never able to articulate. I never said things the "right" way. I couldn't even apologize how he wanted me to. It wasn't that I was wrong. He was committed to misunderstanding me.
Thank you for that. ❤
Glad to hear you talk about narcissism like that. it gets very frustrating to navigate social spaces where people claim to be against mental health stigma but then turn around and call anyone they personally dont like a narcissist. turns out for many people mental health stigma is fine as long as it's about a diagnosis that they personally find distasteful. it's really encouraging to have therapists with platforms acknowledge the humanity of those with more villainized conditions.
🙌🙌🙌
Kody is shunning her, without saying she has to leave the family, so destructive! Meri should have walked so long ago!
It is wild how much Christine's affect changes after she leaves Kody.
Thank you!!!!! Hardly anybody talks about therapists as enablers but therapists straight up blamed me for not controlling my parents emotions when i was a LITERAL CHILD!
I also love how you talked about destigmatizing ALL mental illnesses and not just the easy to sympathize with ones! I don't have a cluster b disorder but I deal with psychosis and the way I feel fed to the wolves when it comes to recognition and support is WILD
I’m so sorry you have had experiences with horrible therapists as a child.. it is so hurtful and harmful to go through that especially when you are young because it’s so confusing and cuts deep due to the fact they are meant to be the people who are not ever supposed to do that and are supposed to help you the most with your mental health and because they are also the adult in your opening up about something so personal with them for them to be awful, is a very traumatic experience on its own
You aren’t alone with having an awful therapist as a child🖤 when I was 12 I went to a therapist due to severe anxiety, depression, and thoughts of ending my life and my therapist actually told me I should do it and spent the rest of the session trying to tell why I should and that all my fears are being a burden and everything are true and that my family/loved ones would actually prefer if I did that, instead of having to deal with the burden of me for the rest of their life
It was extremely traumatic and I’m now 25 years old and I’ve never stepped foot in the therapist office because I’m honestly too scared to so it really hurts my heart when I see other people say that they also had horrible experiences with nasty therapists as a child.. the fact that those people are supposed to be safe and helpful but instead failed and even caused more damage to their clients just makes me so angry and also so sorry.
I really hope that you were able to find a therapist who wasn’t a complete moron and actually knew what they were doing and were able to give you the help and support you deserve🖤 much love
unfortunately my dad is exactly like this edit: I really appreciated what you said about how therapists who do not carefully screen for abusive behaviors can end up participating in abuse. I specifically felt betrayed by my dad's therapist because he came home from therapy with insights like "you should laugh at my jokes more" (directed at me personally). It felt like his therapist was not thinking about how his behavior was affecting other people, only how he felt, which I know my dad is good at talking about.
Oof.. Unfortunately many dads are like this🙃 I'm still sorry tho❤
@@livstylerewind "a lot of people experience that type of abuse from their dads" does not feel like a particularly validating response to me sharing about my abuse but thanks
@@shai2121 sorry I didn't give you the right response. I was trying to make you feel less alone but am not the best at communicating.
Idk if this helps but as a fellow survivor, that therapist might not have been betraying you. Abusers lie all the time to make us feel alone. The therapist might have been encouraging him to change to treat you better.
Your dad may have been lying about, or deeply misunderstanding what the therapist said in order to weaponise their words to abuse you.
A thankfully past therapist of my dad wrote a letter to a sibling, stating that they should begin talking to their abusive family member again, recommending therapy additionally and, as the final straw, the therapist offered his "services" for my sibling to begin therapy with him. My sibling went no contact with him for a long time and it has extensively damaged the relationships within the family. My dad, who is already retired, was strengthened in his mysoginistic views and denial of abuse by the therapist and even though just about everyone involved would profit from some therapy, I do not trust my dad to actually find a good one, given that he continued therapy with that previous boundary crossing therapist even after the letter had been sent home, my sibling had disappeared and everyone including my own therapist wanted to report the therapist for crossing far too many boundaries.
Therapy can be helpful, but some people should not work in this field and create basically dangerous situations for their clients
There have been EIGHTEEN seasons?!?!??😲🤯😳
And the 19th has already been filmed.
Thank you for introducing me to the term “morally neutral”. It has really helped me and also helped me help my friends.
I so appreciate you not labeling him a narcissist. I appreciate you truly de-stigmatizing mental illness.
I’m 100% on board with not labeling people narcissists for all the reasons you mentioned. (And paraphrasing Patrick Teahan, learning about narcissism is not the same thing as healing.) And also, for me, learning about those patterns of behavior and where they tend to come from has been extremely helpful in a way that just knowing that it’s manipulative wasn’t.
I appreciate that you point out that abusive behavior and that most people can “feel” his behavior isn’t great but not be able to nail it down. I see some of this behavior in my own relationship (both on my part and my partners)
My heart just breaks for Meri. I've been in a similar situation in therapy with my abuser, and that thousand yard stare while you wait for it to end... I'm so glad that my counselor had my back, and insisted that I'd benefit much more from independent therapy, and stood up for me.
As a mental health professional, I would not DX Kody with NPD because I haven't assessed him, but I do feel comfortable saying that based on the BX that is presented on this show, he has narcissistic behavior A LOT.
We need a red flag count. Gosh this man is disgusting, I feel for everyone around him.
I think it comes up on stream fairly regularly, but I just want to say how much I appreciate your comments on personality disorders. I have BPD and sometimes it feels like…like no matter how much work I do, there will be people who treat me like live ammo. The reality is that personality disorders, just like any other mental illness, wax and wane. I have had times where I was very ill, and I have had times where I don’t meet the clinical criteria. I’ve had relapses and remissions. You can’t get that information just from running in to me on the street though.
Best way to sum up Kody is a line my mom has always said: if everywhere you go there’s a problem, YOU (Kody) are the problem!!
Also, I’m a McNugg now!!!🥳🥳🥳
Do we know this therapist's credentials? I noticed she was listed on the screen as "MFT" not "LMFT." Maybe that's just a state difference, but that makes me think maybe she isn't licensed and therefore accountable to the professional standards of a licensing therapist/licensure board? It definitely feels like she is allowing Kody to run the session.
tl;dr: It does depend on the state. Some states have strict requirements while others do not. (Which just makes it confusing for clients and professionals)
It definitely depends on the state. In NJ, marriage and family therapists aren't "MFTs," they are either LAMFTs or LMFTs. An associate license is for professionals who are working toward full licensure. LAMFTs usually complete 4500 hours of direct client contact over the course of 3+ years while receiving weekly direct supervision by a state-approved supervisor.
However, just over the boarder into PA, there isn't an associates license for post grads working toward full licensure. And they can legally practice as just an MFT and call themselves that. There is also no requirement to eventually obtain a license, though I believe they are required to have weekly supervision by a state-approved supervisor until they do obtain full licensure. (I could be a little off with the PA requirements, but my grad program was in PA and I have a few PA cohorts I keep in touch with regularly. Perhaps a PA therapist could give more info).
From what I remember, CA and NJ are some of the strictest states. Although FL goes even further and requires that those claiming to also specialize in sex therapy must have additional board certification in sex therapy, which requires completing post-graduate training and education in sex therapy. I only include this slightly tangential certification because as an NJ LAMFT specializing in sex therapy, I decided to complete my education in sex therapy by FL state standards in case NJ also decides to implement similar requirements.
Every time I see a therapist/psychologist/counselor/whatever on one of these TLC shows, I immediately get alarm bells.
To me, just agreeing to let cameras in to a session, even if the clients say they’re fine with it, is a big red flag that this therapist isn’t ethical.
And if they aren’t ethical (to this degree) then I put everything about them into question.
If I started seeing a new therapist, and after a few visits I found out they were like Nancy and were on a reality show in this way, I’d drop them so fast.
Even if it took me a long time to find a therapist in the first place.
It’s just such a big neon sign that this person is untrustworthy.
Kody is seriously one of the most vile and unbelievably horrible people I’ve ever seen in my whole life… it’s actually shocking one person can be that terrible
As an aside, I love your sweater!
Also, Kody is legit a scary person and it's great to see it pointed out so succinctly. My husband watches sisterwives and updated me on what was going on, and at first he was kind of ambivalent about Kody but over time Kody really showed more and more of his bad behaviour so my husband really disliked him after a few seasons. His summaries of episodes went from "Kody was really weird" to "Kody is an a-hole and I hope every wife divorces him" to "I'm so glad the three OG wives have left"
After watching the live streams I went back to watch the first few seasons, and wow, there have been red flags since the beginning but like the vibes weren't absolutely rancid like they are now. I'll be eager to watch any other videos you do on the earlier stuff!
He's been into the manosphere for years. I think that's all you need to know.
Love love love what Mickey says about Cluster B personally disorders, thank you for introducing nuances ❤❤
I’m really glad you’re not demonizing NPD
Willing to bet the counsellor was essentially blackmailed by the Discovery Network executives into keeping them together because their relationship is literally lining said executives' pockets, and they can't afford another Duggar scandal. Absolutely shameful.
Kody legit both sets up/moves goal posts and plays Lucy with Charlie Brown, yanking the football away from her anyway. We all now know that there are some kids (ahem, Mykelti) who are now no contact with Meri. This is fine. But insisting that Meri be putting in what he thinks is good enough work on like a dozen other relationships in order for him to engage at all? That's not achievable. And she has no guarantee that he will even engage if she did achieve it.
I haven't seen the series, just reaction videos like this. Is mykelti an actual name? The poor kid 😯
@@ulhi7564 LOL. Naming a child Mykelti is the least of the sins.
Kody views himself the way he does because in the FLDS they believe that men who have 3 or more wives become gods of their own planets when they die. He literally thinks he's on the path to becoming a god.
I am currently in the healthiest relationship I’ve ever been in, and am finally starting to unpack just how poorly I’ve been treated in the past. I can relate so much to having felt “unsafe” to bring up issues with a relationship before, and am so grateful to have found a partner who cares enough to hold space for and try to address when I have concerns. Just sad that I couldn’t see before that I deserved to be treated this way. Do you think you could talk generally about how CPTSD affects adult relationship patterns?
The fact that Kodi specifically said he refused to accept any criticism and the therapist didn’t immediately shut that down and potentially end the session is just disgusting. He speaks in vague yet accusatory terms to villainize Meri but avoids specific details (because there likely are none) so Meri can’t refute. This whole episode just gets worse and worse.
When you discuss Kody as a parent in your deep dive could you please mention how to handle a parent like that as a child?
It may well involve boundaries and some distancing as many of the adult Brown children have done with Kody.
Kody: none of this is my fault and it’s all Mary’s fault .. 🤬
I wonder if Nancy is one of those sketchy Utah LDS therapists that the church endorses or maybe a life coach because she’s clearly not up to the task of facilitating properly. As a therapist she has certain obligations and this seems more like business coaching or something for a corporate environment. Very superficial. Also, it seems pretty clear that being perceived as this ideal man with all these wives and kids is more important to him than any reality. He’s only interested in people as they are a reflection of him and not for them as individuals. I think “the family” is coded language for staying in the system and doing whatever he wants (while he abandons them for Robyn). I also think Christine is labelled as jealous, unreasonable, a Princess etc. for having needs and daring to express them.
He reminds me so much of my ex husband. If I brought anything up he didn’t like, it would be turned around on me and everything I had ever done “wrong”. I became a shell of a person. So thankful I eventually saw the light after having our son and left.
ETA: I totally felt Christine when she was talking about how she just has to do what he wants. Thank you for talking about all of this, Mickey. I knew the way my ex acted wasn’t good, but if I had known his behaviors were actually abusive and manipulative, I probably would’ve left sooner. I hope your videos help others ♥️
I am SO ready for this video
I would love for you to do a deep dive on Robyn- speaking Kody and how destructive, and what problems thst has created
I 👏🏻 Love 👏🏻 That 👏🏻 Sweater!!!! Color goes great with your pretty hair. 😍
My thought adding to what you said about not diagnosing him also is that it's a reality show and all of these shows are edited. It's not to excuse what he's doing, but more there's things on the cutting room floor and when the cameras are off and without a whole picture it's not the most accurate to say what he does or doesn't have
Ngl, these videos make me appreciate my fiancé so much more! He has never talked to me this way and I can’t imagine having my partner do this to me. I’m glad Kodi’s wives are leaving him, he is not a fit partner for anyone.
When building the home out of rocks, he really just told her “look, you’re just a number to me because it provides me status and someone to give me kids.”
Holy HELL!
Thank you SO SO SO much for this.
I’ve been trying to understand and unpack the subtle abuse I endured FOR YEARS.
That has left me with pretty severe CPTSD. I have contestant physiological and emotional flashbacks that have kept me from living functionally. The flash backs have been getting A LOT better the last two months because I’ve been watching reaction videos like this and relationship channels like BurbNbougie and MelanieHamlett .
Im starting to face my fears and learn the red flags. I’ve been isolating myself but I’m finally feeling less afraid of people. So THANK YOU!
What you said about Cody in the first few minutes just described how all of my family talks to each other and “contempt” is absolutely what it was and thank you so much for giving me a word to it.
Kody was done with her. He never wanted to work on their relationship..
It's so nice to hear an actual therapist say everything about Kody I've been thinking for 18 seasons.
There have been EIGHTEEN seasons of this?!
WHAT, *all 18 seasons* were about the same people??? 😭😭😭
I feel like this is a case where therapy cannot fix this mess (KODY). Meri should go to therapy with her kids. They all need therapy for having to put up with Kody.
Kody just feels like a walking logical fallacy and he sucks so hard. He always gets to the point and takes a sharp turn before he can understand. SOMEHOW he's self aware but NOT???? I think he's just always projecting and he believes he's never in the wrong. Kody will always place the blame onto others.
Thank u for noting this therapist Tried to blame Merri.
Gosh it was so sad listening to christine(?) talk about the tower activity. She straight up knows that kody does not care and will not listen to anything she says so she just lets him lead without offering feedback. Because none of that matters to him. It's no wonder she's miserable.
The scene with the rock tower was so so sad.
So True! Kody devalues what Merri says. My Most recent ex Did the Exact same thing as did my parents.
Thank u for speaking Truth to this!! We all need to hear this
I think women's hatred for Kody is something that unites cultures and can cause world peace
Mary needs to leave, Kody isn’t worth it.
👏👏👏👏👏
And there I was back in the days some 10 years ago, married to a sweet, respectful guy, who used to record this specific reality show for me, silently screaming at Meri to leave! The fact that I somehow ended up in a similar position with absolutely no room to even make a legitimate noise because it was a situationship of sorts, blew my mind, on top of everything else. I sometimes am surprised at how much we can take, and in this sense, as hard as it was to witness all the wives' struggles because I could recognise myself in all of them, it also validates feelings and suspicions I never got the chance to clarify, simply because I left circumstances that I found were leading nowhere. I am completely closed down 4 years on and in my mind, I have cut access and communication already, back then. I hope the women are in better places now and managed to reinstate peace and hope in their hearts, because that's what's being killed, amongst other things when you are entangled with a man that disqualifies and discredits and invalidates you - your life force, your will to live, to create, to breathe, and no, we don't allow anyone to have that level of influence over us, again.
“Girl, clock IN!” Loved that comment on Nancy’s passivity 😂
Meri's misery and defeat are palpable. I hope she gets out and leaves Kody alone, where he belongs.
IMHO, Kody chose this therapist , because she sides with him and doesn’t call him out on his behavior.
Mickey I would love to see you react to the show Couples Therapy! The therapist on that show (I think her name is Orna?) is really good at holding space while guiding the interactions in a way that encourages mutual accountability
I cackled so hard when cody said, "i cant be your Jesus"
22:30 his comment here about trying to fill up a love tank is fascinating to me, because I've heard about people talking about "narcissistic supply", and to me that sort of sounds like the person who's a narcissist could be said to be trying to fill up a love/supply tank as well. I don't watch sister wives, and I don't know anything about narcissists, but it's fascinating to me that these two things sound so much the same, completely by accident by Cody.
thanks for going through the sister wives episodes! Wether I catch you live or on a replay of he streams, it's been a huge support for my adhd at work to listen to you. These clips and your breakdown of them are so heartbreakingly fascinating. It's so sad that we watched these women and this family go through so much pain and trauma. I also deeply appreciate your ethical boundary to not try and diagnose someone. I have completely stopped watching channels that do for all the reasons you stated. You are a class act and hilarious. Can't wait for the Kody is a shit dad video lol
Hell yeah, I loved watching your reaction lives on this too
I hated the rock activity at the time, and it's soul crushing now to see it given everything we know. And I ROFLed when you said, "What are you doing girl, just enjoying the sun?" at the therapist. Seriously!
Also I love that you examined the Meri therapy session and broke it down--I missed how toxic it was about her at the time, I'd totally bought in to the "Meri is the problem" narrative. I hope it was edited out that the therapist was probing into HOW she was the problem, but it doesn't seem like she did.
I hope you review/react to all the therapy sessions, these are fantastic insights about both the family dynamics but also what we can look for as red flags in our own therapy sessions/interactions. Great video
The way I just clicked so fast when I saw this 😂
I did couples counseling with my abusive ex husband with BPD and the therapist was giving Nancy she ALWAYS enabled my ex husband and never took my side. Exhausting and a huge waste of time and money. That kinda made me not believe in therapy anymore after that experience.
Mickey is really out here giving us amazing content one after another 😭❤️
There’s clearly a reason he’s willing to go to this therapist
Oh yes I'm so ready for this smack down
Your candor is delightful & refreshing. Just discovered this channel & became an instant subscriber👍🏼👍🏼
This is such a good video but can I ask how you keep your hair healthy as you colour it so much?? X
It’s all an ✨illusion✨ lol. No I mean I try my best to use heat protectant and heat style it as little as possible but if we’re being honest it’s a lil crunchy and that’s okay with me 🤷🏻♀️
The “heLLO?!!???” gets me every time. Love you Mickey xx
Wasn't the catfisher a friend of Robyn?
25:04 Kody is the high maintenance part in these relationships. And he is not worth it.
25:12 So did Kody with Robyn, that lady was quick to the wedding.
I had high doubts that Nancy is actually a therapist, probably someone hired by TLC. Then I looked it up and holy shit - she's real guys
What I saw : “ I don’t really like Christine and I don’t want to focus on the relationship because I don’t actually love you, so - let’s focus on the family”
Hi Mickey. I just wanted to tell you a little about something I experienced. I was in a relationship that only lasted about a month before I got unceremoniously dumped and he blamed me for it despite the fact that he admitted he’d spent almost half the relationship “falling for” someone else. He didn’t like that I made straight white man jokes and said ACAB. And more than once when this came up I very carefully explained to him what I meant by these things, that no, I don’t actually hate straight white men and he just happens to be “one of the good ones,” I explained what ACAB means, I offered him resources on things like a RUclipsr who talks about like anime and things but also is a leftist who talks about things from a straight male perspective and what that means for him and he ignored it, I offered him articles on the meaning of ACAB and he would be like, “eh, I might skim it.” MIGHT. SKIM. He would complain about Male Loneliness and I tried to help him with that and again he ignored that.
And aside from the ways this was all just awful to experience (he literally compared me to Hitler!! It sounds like I’m joking but I’m not!!! As a queer disabled person I found this especially fucked up but even if I was the most unimpeachable blond-haired blue-eyed princess it still would have been deeply not okay), I’m now realizing that it wasn’t my thoughts, feelings, and ideas that were the problem. I thought I did a good job of trying to explain myself but I know I’ve been thinking I could have done better. And hearing you say that it doesn’t matter how well you express yourself, people who are determined to misunderstand will simply not listen, really, really hit me. Him turning around and saying to other people “she hates men” when not only had I apologized and explained that that wasn’t the case, and I had ALREADY been consciously altering my language around him, was a him problem, and not a me problem. I still don’t know if he really had failed to listen that much or if he was just using it as an excuse so that he could dump me for someone else while still being Actually The Good Guy, but I’m understanding that that doesn’t matter to me as a person at all. He wanted to misunderstand and misinterpret and he didn’t listen and it didn’t matter what I did he wasn’t interested in hearing and there was no way I could have changed it.
Sorry, this is long and you’re not my actual therapist, but it felt important to share with you if you choose to read it. You just said some things I didn’t know I needed to hear. So, thank you.
It's scary how many lonely people do ANYTHING but self reflection and working on their own challenges to connect better with others. Never acknowledging their own shortcomings, always blaming those around them. And ending up full of hate 🙁
@@mariaparabello6344 yes! I very much understand loneliness and isolation but I have a bunch of online friends I talk to every day, so when he bemoaned not having close friends, especially other men, I was like, well have you tried… talking to people? I know socialization makes it hard for men to talk about things deeply but that’s not a thing where you just throw your hands up and say, welp, being a man is oppression actually and there’s nothing I can do about it. People of all genders have internalized social “norms” that are harmful to them and we all have to do the work to overcome them and it’s not different for lonely men!
36:04 and onward. Do we ever get to hear her boundaries, her expectations, her convictions? He entirely railroads the conversation to be about him (even his opinion about what she is feeling, thinking, doing wrong) which is held above everyone else’s wants/needs/feelings in order of importance in his mind.
As someone who escaped an abuser, while she is saying her piece about “it’s a matter of how you express your opinion, and whether or not that is okay” he is scanning her words for weapons he can throw back at her later. Watch his face and how he latches on to “whether or not that is okay”? He is fully intending to use that line against her later, either to not allow her truthful expression of negative emotions because what she’s expressing is “not okay”, or for any genuine discussion she tries to have about their relationship will be seen as her telling him he’s wrong and bad and “you can’t tell me whether or not my behaviour is okay!” as he continues to mistreat her.
Having solid trauma-related reasons to never watch something like this, I don’t know how she is behaving whether or not she is being intentionally mean to some of their household, or if she’s just trying to release some of her feelings to let them be shared and known if she’s one of the more emotional vs. logical/cerebral people. Either way, I hope she’s not learning that it is not okay for her to have boundaries because he has his “convictions” of keeping her but never allowing her to express her needs.
what you said about kody talking over mary really hit for me. it’s been about 10 months since my last long term relationship with a guy who did the same thing. i don’t know that i would have left him without your channel❤
The only thing that keeps this from being super depressing is knowing that they left and are happier now especially Christine ❤ good for her for doing what she needed to do
Thank god this video exists! I can’t wait!!!!
was the therapist just working on her tan while Kody was steamrolling Christine, talking over her, insisting his way was the only right way...? she really watched them interact during that rock tower exercise and thought "wow how healthy!! they are really getting along! my work here is done."
Kody never accepts blame for anything. It's always someone else's fault. It's not him, it's them. He lies over and over trying to make himself look like the victim.
I wish you were my couples counselor 😢 i dealt with abuse for so long and my ex husband would abuse me over zoom in front of both our therapist (who was very expensive) and our pastor and they both took his side and enabled him and told me everything was my fault 😢 thank you for this video, you validated me and invalidated the years of bad therapy me and my abusive ex husband with bpd received. Thank you. I have adhd and rejection sensitivity disorder and it was really hard to feel like everything was my fault when i know i wasn’t doing anything wrong.
Do you think Kody also has bpd? Can you make a video about how men with bpd specifically derail therapy sessions? I feel like so many women go through this. It’s not just NPD but bpd also. I believe Kody is comorbid with both.
Good Lord Cody sucks so bad! Also, I think Nancy conducting herself the way that she does is very harmful to therapy. Had I seen this when I was younger and saw how she conducted herself and allowed Cody to do whatever he wanted and treated the wives the way he did while also blaming the wives for everything and her not stepping in, I never would have sought out therapy. That just would have convinced me that the therapist is going to take the side of the other person and I'm going to have to capitulate and forget about who I was as a person and let go any of my grievances that I was the problem.
I so wish Mary had a friend who saw this video & showed it to her. She needs to see that there are perspectives outside of Kody's.