Thank you for explaining spirit varnish, which is new to me. I've been trying to learn finishing by reading the old recipes in the library (El Greco etc) and experimenting.
Interesting as to the craftsmanship and technical aspects. I am an artist. As a medium for oil painting most use turpentine. I prefer Liquin for transparent glazing that makes a hard finish. Yet there are some that prefer what is said the oil masters used. Walnut oil. It stays wet for a longer time between glazes but is reported to dry hard and give an interesting effect. Thank you for sharing this interesting video with us.
Mayson, in his Violin Making, says that oil varnish is pretty much the only way to go. While spirit varnish with time causes cracks, chips, and quick wear, oil varnish wears gracefully. In addition, spirit varnish, according to Mayson, causes a rude and agressive tone whereas good oil varnish is key to a warm and smooth tone.
I love the natural wear patterns that happen on any object. Steve Jobs said metal backed iPhones shouldn’t be protected because then the scratches that make the phone personal and used would not appear. I also like Jobs philosophy that the inside of the phone, despite being only seen by repair technicians, should also be beautiful because the maker knows this.
Thank you Edgar, I definitely agree about the benefits of oil varnish. I myself have never used spirit varnish. By the way I loved the video where you cooked varnish in your garden and all of your videos for that matter, keep up your hard work it's greatly appreciated
You know I never bought a jar of varnish in my life. I have actually no problem if others do so, but cooking the varnish is just so much fun. Similar as going to choose the wood before seasoning. All the best from Cremona Edgar
It's nice to hear a confirmation about the differences in sounds caused by varnish! My current violin, viola, and cello all have oil varnish. It seems to me that they have a deeper, darker, more complex tone - and the balance of overtones is especially pleasing. I'm not sure what my bass has - it looks more like a spirit varnish, even though it sounds similar in tone to my other instruments. It's interesting to hear that the bigger instruments aren't as affected by the varnish, but that would explain the difference in what I see versus what I hear. By the way, you mentioned an undercoat of ... protane, is it? Is that how it's spelled? I love these videos you've been putting out. I used to talk to my luthier for hours about geeky things like this. I learned an incredible amount from her as I was entering the teaching profession, but she retired and moved away a few years ago. It feels like I'm now continuing that learning :-)
The protein and Calcium wood preparation is a wood sealer which doesn’t leave anything on the instrument but causes a reaction which changes the capillary properties of the wood in surface. In that way no oil varnish can penetrate into the wood when starting to varnish! A tiny particularity which at the time of Stradivari has been discovered/used . From 1686. Thanks for your interaction! All the best from Cremona Edgar
@@EdgarRussthese protein sealers. Do they work also in sense of protection of humidity changes? My initial thought was to penetrate wood as much as possible to protect from humidity change. I make harps, so Im trying to make instrument as stable as possible. Too much string to tune.. =D Thank you!
Great video Edgar. I used oil varnish on my cello. I fell in love with the idea that real amber is used as an ingredient. For the underlying resin layers I used plant pigments. Couldn‘t be happier.
Wow! So interesting. I've been working very intensely to refinish a new cello by a small production scale luthier with spirit varnish. It is extremely challenging to develop a consistent and uniform color tone. But I'm discovering tricks that make it possible. For violin then, it sounds like oil varnish is necessary for highly optimized sound quality. So much to learn and consider... P.S. As a musician I'd so much rather be putting my time into music itself. But economic considerations force one into doing everything from scratch often times.
Interesting! You say that you want to close wood before puting oil varnish to NOT penetrate thw wood my oil? That oil inside wood would make the sound worse? And do you think it affects big instrument also? Thank you. Tomáš
I made the linossina varnish. The book of Michaelman had been my instruction. Indeed it is a great way to make a spirit varnish (alcool based) which has all the advantages of the oil varnish. The fact that it takes so much work has been the reason that I have somehow “forgotten” the linossina spirit varnish. Once you know how to prepare a well working oil varnish you just don’t understand why you searched other techniques. Simplicity is the secret! The secret can be find in simplicity! All the best and enjoy your Sunday Edgar
Spirit varnish becomes harder and harder? Isn’t the spirit gone after a few minutes at least and it’s the rosins that get drier and drier over the years - as get those from the oil varnish?
My present problem is, hich varnish to chose for restaurations. I have a couple of violins here which I'd love to brush up a little but I do not know how to find out which kind of varnish the original one is. Any idea? 57? You look younger, Edgar.
For the retouching use spirit based varnish. It’s definitely too much fuzz to retouch with oil varnish. Use shellack and pigments if necessary! Thanks for the compliments! I definitely feel younger. Sometimes I have the impression that I have just finished the violinmaking school! That was in 1989!!!!! 🤣😮💨 Can’t believe how quick it is passing by and I always have the impression that I didn’t do enough! But than once in a while I think it over and I realize that I made already a few experiences. You can only regret what you didn’t do in your live! All the best and thanks for your support here! Edgar 👋🏼
Interesting! You say that you want to close wood before puting oil varnish to NOT penetrate thw wood my oil? That oil inside wood would make the sound worse? And do you think it affects big instrument also? Thank you. Tomáš
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Thank you for explaining spirit varnish, which is new to me. I've been trying to learn finishing by reading the old recipes in the library (El Greco etc) and experimenting.
Interesting as to the craftsmanship and technical aspects. I am an artist. As a medium for oil painting most use turpentine. I prefer Liquin for transparent glazing that makes a hard finish. Yet there are some that prefer what is said the oil masters used. Walnut oil. It stays wet for a longer time between glazes but is reported to dry hard and give an interesting effect. Thank you for sharing this interesting video with us.
Mayson, in his Violin Making, says that oil varnish is pretty much the only way to go. While spirit varnish with time causes cracks, chips, and quick wear, oil varnish wears gracefully. In addition, spirit varnish, according to Mayson, causes a rude and agressive tone whereas good oil varnish is key to a warm and smooth tone.
I love the natural wear patterns that happen on any object. Steve Jobs said metal backed iPhones shouldn’t be protected because then the scratches that make the phone personal and used would not appear. I also like Jobs philosophy that the inside of the phone, despite being only seen by repair technicians, should also be beautiful because the maker knows this.
Wow... Another fantastic video! Thanks Edgar!
Thanks, Charlie!
Thank you Edgar, I definitely agree about the benefits of oil varnish. I myself have never used spirit varnish. By the way I loved the video where you cooked varnish in your garden and all of your videos for that matter, keep up your hard work it's greatly appreciated
You know I never bought a jar of varnish in my life. I have actually no problem if others do so, but cooking the varnish is just so much fun. Similar as going to choose the wood before seasoning.
All the best from Cremona
Edgar
It's nice to hear a confirmation about the differences in sounds caused by varnish! My current violin, viola, and cello all have oil varnish. It seems to me that they have a deeper, darker, more complex tone - and the balance of overtones is especially pleasing. I'm not sure what my bass has - it looks more like a spirit varnish, even though it sounds similar in tone to my other instruments. It's interesting to hear that the bigger instruments aren't as affected by the varnish, but that would explain the difference in what I see versus what I hear.
By the way, you mentioned an undercoat of ... protane, is it? Is that how it's spelled?
I love these videos you've been putting out. I used to talk to my luthier for hours about geeky things like this. I learned an incredible amount from her as I was entering the teaching profession, but she retired and moved away a few years ago. It feels like I'm now continuing that learning :-)
I heard protein, presumably egg white or gelatin or hide glue, perhaps?
The protein and Calcium wood preparation is a wood sealer which doesn’t leave anything on the instrument but causes a reaction which changes the capillary properties of the wood in surface. In that way no oil varnish can penetrate into the wood when starting to varnish!
A tiny particularity which at the time of Stradivari has been discovered/used . From 1686.
Thanks for your interaction!
All the best from Cremona
Edgar
All are good or could work!
I use the casein calcium preparation!
But I used them all already!
@@EdgarRussthese protein sealers. Do they work also in sense of protection of humidity changes?
My initial thought was to penetrate wood as much as possible to protect from humidity change. I make harps, so Im trying to make instrument as stable as possible. Too much string to tune.. =D
Thank you!
Great video Edgar. I used oil varnish on my cello. I fell in love with the idea that real amber is used as an ingredient. For the underlying resin layers I used plant pigments. Couldn‘t be happier.
Great!
Enjoy!
Edgar
Thank you for your explanation! Very informative.
Thanks Bruce!
Wow! So interesting. I've been working very intensely to refinish a new cello by a small production scale luthier with spirit varnish. It is extremely challenging to develop a consistent and uniform color tone. But I'm discovering tricks that make it possible. For violin then, it sounds like oil varnish is necessary for highly optimized sound quality. So much to learn and consider...
P.S. As a musician I'd so much rather be putting my time into music itself. But economic considerations force one into doing everything from scratch often times.
I am happy that you earn so much here.
All the best from Cremona
Edgar
How many coats of varnish are applied? Very informative video.
Interesting! You say that you want to close wood before puting oil varnish to NOT penetrate thw wood my oil? That oil inside wood would make the sound worse?
And do you think it affects big instrument also?
Thank you. Tomáš
Very interessant, thank you. After long long years, the linseed oil will be harder to, or ? 🤔
What about "linossina"? (Transformed linseed oil which melts in spirit) So you can have both, oil but with a quick solvent (alcohol)
I made the linossina varnish. The book of Michaelman had been my instruction. Indeed it is a great way to make a spirit varnish (alcool based) which has all the advantages of the oil varnish. The fact that it takes so much work has been the reason that I have somehow “forgotten” the linossina spirit varnish.
Once you know how to prepare a well working oil varnish you just don’t understand why you searched other techniques.
Simplicity is the secret!
The secret can be find in simplicity!
All the best and enjoy your Sunday
Edgar
Spirit varnish becomes harder and harder? Isn’t the spirit gone after a few minutes at least and it’s the rosins that get drier and drier over the years - as get those from the oil varnish?
Language Edgar!😱
My present problem is, hich varnish to chose for restaurations. I have a couple of violins here which I'd love to brush up a little but I do not know how to find out which kind of varnish the original one is. Any idea?
57? You look younger, Edgar.
For the retouching use spirit based varnish. It’s definitely too much fuzz to retouch with oil varnish.
Use shellack and pigments if necessary!
Thanks for the compliments! I definitely feel younger. Sometimes I have the impression that I have just finished the violinmaking school!
That was in 1989!!!!!
🤣😮💨
Can’t believe how quick it is passing by and I always have the impression that I didn’t do enough!
But than once in a while I think it over and I realize that I made already a few experiences.
You can only regret what you didn’t do in your live!
All the best and thanks for your support here!
Edgar
👋🏼
@@EdgarRuss Many thanks for your tips, Maestro! I'll follow you.
quel bavard !
Oil varnish was used by the great Italian makers.
OH! Shit! I like it.
That’s great! But what do you like?
🤣
Oil ! Ovviamente sono di un po' di parte 🤣
None of the two.
Interesting! You say that you want to close wood before puting oil varnish to NOT penetrate thw wood my oil? That oil inside wood would make the sound worse?
And do you think it affects big instrument also?
Thank you. Tomáš