Dies To Removal Episode 19 - Sick Of Standard On Magic: The Gathering Arena
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- Опубликовано: 31 окт 2024
- Are you sick of Standard on Magic: The Gathering Arena? The Professor and Vince discuss what (limited) options are starting to emerge and what they think of them. Also, Vince uses technology to help the Professor improve his game!
Did you miss the last episode? Check out our thought on how Modern is Mastered here: • Dies To Removal Episod...
Vince has a RUclips channel? He does! Go check out his video on his video on Mono Blue Eon Legacy here: • Monoblue Eon Prison - ...
Want more Modern? Check out my guide to Selesnya Eldrazi here: • An Advanced Deck Guide...
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Music Courtesy Of:
"Vintage Education" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
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Folks, if you enjoy this video podcast series do me a big favor and just take a second to share it on social media, or just hit that like button or leave a comment. Not sure if RUclips is angry at it for having the word 'Dies' in the title or something, but I can see the backend analytics on this and shares and likes are GREATLY appreciated here. Cheers my friends!
it´s the word di*s on the title, other youtubers had the same problem
A suggestion not necessary to follow? To cheat the algorithm, change it to "dyes to removal"?
I want you to sughest small realistic changes arena can do
You may have done this before but it also may deserve a revisit
Cheers
Tolarian Community College your intros lately have made me LOL at home by myself
Me: I am sick of mtg!
Oko: Your opinion is 3/3 elk
The moment Vince says, "Twitch chat!" was quite literally a horror reveal.
That was hilarious
"no lightning bolts...just a little shock" lmao
Is anyone else disappointed that he didn’t put a beach wave crashing on his foot?
9:14 Prof "So you are saying you do not have Saffron Olive's girth?"
*Audible Pause*
Pleasant Kenobi "That is exactly what i'm saying yeah"
“Some people like white cards, and some of us like to use good cards.” Path to Exile would like a word with you
*Swords to Plowshares has entered the chat*
How to spot blue players.
Death and Taxes starts typing furiously
It's all fun and games until I steal the win with my Mono White Thalia Soldier EDH.
*Do you want to pay the cost for Smothering Tithe?*
Welcome to Oko: The Gathering, ladies and Elkemen.
Correction: there are no ladies only elk
“I was more referring to the fact that you play Merfolk at every opportunity...”
“...Ah”
This is a feeling every Magic the Gathering player has had at least once
I love the looks of disgust on people's faces when i break out the goblins.
I showed up to my lgs the other day saying I wanted to pick up some cards to make a standard deck this was the conversation between the cashier and myself:
Cashier: Standard? Haven't seen you play that since the rotation.
Me: Yeah... I was sad my goblin cavalcade deck rotated out, but now I've got an idea for a new deck.
Cashier: Oh? What is it?
Me: **Elemental** cavalcade!
Cashier: Why did I bother asking?
I always enjoy making my own standard. 6 sets, generally 2 from one block. and 2 core sets. its always fun to change and see what works together.
21:12
You are only partially correct. Rarely do you get only a single card to finish a deck. Likely you would have spent your wildcards for the Wurmcoil, but what about any of the wildcards you spent on the rest of the deck? What if the entire deck is no longer viable? You may lose a lot more wildcards than just what was used for the Wurmcoil.
Can't wait to see the talk about Pioneer
Also, it may be that pioneer us heading to Arena. Arena has been tested all the way back to Shadows so add zendikar, Khan's, there's, and return. Voila arena is prepped for the new static format
@@danielvanryn6979 That's only speculation, and there's really no reason to believe that, otherwise why would they have launched Pioneer and Historic the way they did?
Plus, precedent shows that they want to die on the standard-only hill
Pioneer was stated to not be slated for arena, and never would be
thank you, Vince. Idk what bot drafting is, I just enjoy you two talking about MTG even tho I havent played much since 7th edition.
Next week’s episode: Why the F*** is Pioneer not going to be on Arena.
WOTC probably doesn't want to add in older sets yet, hopefully that changes.
YES PLEASE
You go and program all those cards
@@hugodiazroa sure, if you pay me to do it
Luke Dewhurst was going to say they’re getting paid to do it and people want it.. so yeah!
20:30 As a matter of fact, Field of the Dead (a card I wasn't playing) got banned today and I got two rare wildcards because I had them in my collection.
After entering modern back in Theros by making Merfolk I have finally bought 4 cursecatchers and finished the deck. In many ways, I've now completed magic the gathering.
Best prof suggestion of the vid? Flashback drafts! I never got to draft Amonkhet/Shadows Over Inn., and would love the chance. Plus it makes Historic an actual playable format! Prof, make this happen!
Except it's not. They actually already proposed that themselves during their Renewal announcement. They haven't done it yet cause they're in the middle of the Eldraine release.
@@thedarkemissary Just like in 2 years they haven't fixed performance issues, done any kind of social features, a better UI or any actual permanent format besides standard, because there's always a new set..?
Huh. So basically the game will never get better because there's always the latest set to work on.
@@LedPESRule Exactly. The more "new features" gets dropped on their workload, the less likely they'll be able to fix "quality of life" problems. Just like the professor was saying, as the community demands increase, problems that don't garner widespread attention will continue to get pushed back. Unless, their Arena development team (which is a little under 100 people) increases in size, they only have 4 months to program in a new set, while simultaneously having to add features, create monetization opportunities, fix bugs, manage competitive play and improve game quality.
Just look at a multi-billion dollar, free-to-play game like League of Legends. It's been 10 years and they still don't have voice chat or custom music playlist, 2 requested features since launch. It took them 4 years just to update their UI from beta.
32:36 watching this in 2022 after getting arena mobile ads on this video is just [chef’s kiss]
The intros on these are so great. When Vince said, "Twitch chat," I cracked up!
That was hilarious
professor: what. the hell. is this?
me: headphones with sticky stuff atached to their ends
Pauper Cube would be interesting because Arena doesn't have specific animations for most commons or uncommons you can just use the same sound effects for most of the same creature types, the specific cards tend to be low complexity while still allowing them to programme in a bunch of different mechanics.
It's a shame how these discussions keep getting undercut by surprise announcements from wizards.
Wizards makes a new announcement every hour. Gotta roll with it.
@@TolarianCommunityCollege I'm sorry Professor, I'd love to read your 11 word response, but I don't have time. Wizards just made an announcement!
@@MrSJPowell did I just count how many words that comment had? yes. yes I did.
I needed that explained about bot drafting.
Thank you Vinc
"I crack IT!" actually laughed out loud. Always appreciate the content!
Lucas Diamond That scene was edited very well!
You can't hate on bot drafting while also championing casual devices like mobile, tablets and console. They are inherently opposite focuses to the experience.
Bot drafting allows the casualness of dropping in and out of matches, playing out a draft over a week's time. Perfect for those who aren't going to devote several hours to the game. Perfect for new devices like mobile, tablets and console.
As someone with depression, the beard signifies how far in I am - the longer it is the hard it is to claw out. Looking mighty clean shaven and bushy tailed today!
"Twitch chat" whelp, that went about as well as could be expect.
The whimsical sock meta finally getting the analysis it deserves! :3
Always listen to chat: Never listen to chat
As a memeber of chat i agree.
I think Vince summed up what I feel about Arena and what Wotc should here.
I only play limited. I don't play standard, and probably never will. If you, Wotc, want to tap into this market (people like me), human drafting and good cube are probably the only way.
What a pleasant surprise to see this in my feed.
Pleasant Kenobi lives an entire continent away and still manages to meet up with the professor to continue this podcast. Incredible!
I am actually okay with okay with bot drafting. It allows me to leave the pc at ANY point in time. As a parent, this is more ideal than “I can’t pause it! Well, guess I’m out these coins that I have grinded these last few days for.”
My biggest dream in the world is if 4 player commander comes to MTG Arena.
TwicebakedJake expect to be disappointed on that. They didn’t build it with multiplayer in mind and have made zero indication that they are interested in developing it.
@@jakeapplegate6642 Actually they said there will be a 2 vs 2 mode next year.
santiago sola source?
@@jakeapplegate6642 In one of the state of beta videos.
santiago sola it has been out of beta a while now. They show a screenshot of the arena roadmap in this video and it doesn’t say anything about multiplayer. Without a way to check your source I’m going to stand by what I said. They are not going to do multiplayer and I would bet money on that.
1:05 "Not a Lightning Bolt, just a little Shock"
*nose exhale*
Its not massive 3 but a stingy 2
I miss the Story mod from dulls.. i loved the idea of playing the Story and get some details by a teller
It's just a shock, only deals 2 damage.
Please disregard the Dwarf Noble in the corner. He is not important.
@@TheMightyBattleSquid cast 7 lightning bolts and you die faster.
I know nothing about magic. But I come for the intro skits. 😂
It's kinda nice to start a bot draft knowing that there's no pressure to finish. You can literally walk away in the middle of a pack, come back, walk away after a few games, come back and finish. No time limitations is definitely an advantage over actually drafting. That being said, actual drafting would be nice.
0:41 - 0:55 Just a top-notch back-and-forth, bravo.
I was excited for Historic until I found out you don't get weekly win progress playing it. I don't care much for current Standard, and having to play it to keep building my collection feels awful.
I was excited for Historic until
Pioneer
40:37 Scaring your tenets, eh, Professor? That bug might have a noise complaint on your desk tomorrow.
To respond to Vince’s point, the reason people don’t want a curated list of random cards is because those cards will do exactly what you said; make new decks appear based on those cards. Historic is supposed to be a place where we get to play with our standard cards of the past. We don’t get to do that if they keep adding random powerful cards that make all of our old cards that we actually got from standard irrelevant.
Do you pre-record these in bulk or does Vince actually travel to the states that often nowadays?
I believe they prerecord in bulk
Paul Arceneaux prof’s hair is one of the best ways to tell
I think Prof. nailed it with his view of bot drafts being an "invisible problem".
Wizards: If we launch a digital product, we can save money on physical cards!
Also Wizards: If we don't spend money on improving our digital product, we can make more money!
Its win win lol
I'd like to see brawl arena be a non rotating format that starts at Dominaria. That would get me more interested in playing arena personally.
Thanks for making these videos they're some of my favorites to listen to while doing other stuff.
As soon as the electrodes came out... I'm DYING.
"Even if it's not a Samsung Galaxy, your phone is gonna explode"
- Best joke this episode
The WotC recent survey asked if brawl should be an eternal format and I said yes. I hope everyone else did to because making Brawl historic would definitely make it more viable.
Historic Brawl will probably mean we can play it even less, maybe once every full-moon or something
There are many ways to wear wild socks without the clash (not the band).
Thanks Vince, had an idea of what it was but didn't know it was an ongoing problem.
Prof's bud: No no not a lightning bolt, a small shock, only 2 damage.
Prof's bud?
@@PleasantKenobi should he change it to hoe or somethin?
Imagine busting your ass to get stoneforge unbanned only to be remembered as Profs bud. Classic
Everyone knows crim has the best beard, its just a fact at this point.
Thank you Vince. I've drafted IRL but only started arena a few weeks ago and don't know anything about draft on MTGA yet.
The beginning is how the instructor was born
It's Alive!!!!
Legit just sitting here wishing that arena would have 4 player gameplay and maybe Two-headed giant
Just keep in mind it supports brawl but only on Wednesday...thats a nasty sign of wotcs greed monster poking it head...does the brawl code break on any other day?? Nah, its very clever manipulation... The casual players I want to go on there for a somewhat Commander experience are not going to be able to stand a chance against these standard net deckers so they'll have to netdeck and get into standard themselves just to unlock the cards that they want for brawl.... Spend spend spend spend spend that's all they want us to do.
Thanks Vince. Not really into draft so I’ve yet to do it in Arena. The explanation helped.
wait, Vince has a youtube channel?
If you ever return to your tolarian Tutor video series i think you should redo your one on mulligans because of the london mulligan change. Cheers and keep up the good work my friend.
The problem is that players and developers have very different ideas of what Arena is. Players think its going to grow and eclipse and replace mtgo, but the decisions around how it's actually developing show us that wotc considers it a niche platform for a different audience.
Mtg players are one of the most intelligent groups of people in the world we can keep track of a random list of cards if it can be curated to be an amazing format
I like brawl's existence, especially on arena, because it is so much more accessible to new Magic players than somethig like commander, so many less cards to choose from and a smaller deck to craft makes it incredibly easier.
Brawl also servers as a bridge into commander for when the new players get some experience
FlyingTurtle, actually the commander pre-cons for $40.00 are a good deal. It gives you a good base of lands and other staples for basically bulk prices. Plus as the years pass they cards age and increase in value. You’re much better off doing that than messing around with brawl.
Thanks for the bot drafting explanation. I didn't know that was happening, but now I know it makes a lot of sense.
It's refreshing to see the professor in a bit more loose setting than the scripted videos :-) good dynamic duo!
I found Vince's bot draft explanation very useful. I play arena frequently just not the draft, so i had no idea.
"It's not about size" humnnn i see someone with a small... Beard.
I appreciated the bot draft explanation (even if i got most of it from context already). have only played arena since only playing with friends decks a couple times in high school. and ive only drafted once on arena and that was before i even understood basic draft rules....
Great video featuring Vince, probably better known as Pleasant Kenobi, probably better known as doesn't have as much girth as Seth, probably better known as Saffron Olive!
On "the invisible issue". I mainly play limited and do not play on arena cause it's just not fun. The fact that draft is self correcting is what makes it so fun.
You can, if you feel like, already play MTG Arena on your smartphone via the app Steam Link. It works just fine. You are basically streaming the game to your phone or tablet via your PC, but it actually does work :)
Thanks, Vince! Maybe explain the milk thing too?
Also if you touch on the "ghost" issues of mtga then another one easily underlooked is the error in general in the algorithm handling the rng effects ( such as card draws ) because it doesn't seem to be immitating true randomness in the slightest. Just wanted to offer some food for thought.
In addition I'd like to add : I can't wait for the Pioneer format Dies to Removal episode
I was glad to have bot drafting explained. I wasn’t sure how it works on either as have no access to MtGo or arena as I’m on Mac
Bass Wakil you could download Wine, which would let you run Microsoft programs on Mac/Linux
You two are just the best, and if it wasn't for you guys and the Command Zone, I'd probably have just given up on MtG by now
Socks & Tea : Episode 19.
It's like watching a modern version of the initial Dr. Venkman Scene from Ghostbusters. "You read my mind! I was just thinking 'eight o'clock!'"
about cube contentideas for Arena: I think they will start with simple stuff like a Planar Cube: Zendikar, since we are returning to zendikar again. Cards from all zendikar sets. Then maybe some other plane like Mirrodin (should be near in line after Zendikar).
FUN FACT: You can play historic Brawl through direct challenge.
Love these video Prof and Konobi. I wanna see more!
The way I think they should do it is if add new to standard they should be part of their own supplemental sets.
Tbh I'm more excited to try pioneer than historic because of the larger card pool. Also thank you Vince for explaining bot drafting! I've only drafted on arena a few times a while ago so I forgot all about the bot.
Vince's beard is sexier. I totally like his beard. Safran olives beard looks like it belongs on a homeless man
Thoughtful discussion as always! Keep it up!
That's really interesting, while I would imagine it's more like an adaptable system able to add in new exceptions/procedures for instructions, I wonder if the system functions more on a neural net system which is able to track and monitor interactions.
Good to hear even self-described "Limited Casuals" like the Professor recognizing the huge problem that is bot drafting.
The day they add human draft is the day I would buy the $100 bundle on MTGA. Until then I am just not willing to pay actual money for the bot draft experience (which is quite terrible, in spite of some of the upsides it brings). Sadly, I don't think they will ever add human draft, I think they are scared that it will kill MTGO so they'd prefer to keep Arena drafts non-authentic to keep people buying the more expensive MTGO drafts.
I am in the same boat I am sick of standard. I have resently transitioned over into commander as well as taking a dive into modern. But I still enjoy arena just for the quality experience and would love to see it on tablets next.
I’m not sick of standard, per say. I only get sick of standard in this case, when, as we see, broken cards make up the bulk of decks you play against. I’m sick of seeing Oko and I was absolutely repulsed by FotD, and am quite glad to see it banned from standard. It’s not that I couldn’t win against these cards/decks, it’s that I had to specially side board (or sometimes even mainboard) against them. And typically I had to play against them every match, or every other match. I opt out of a season or two when I feel a current meta is toxic.
With that aside, I am really sick of Arena for two major reasons and this is a long time brewing. The first issue I have with arena is the matchmaking algorithm that faces decks against each other based on their hidden “power number”. This has many inherent flaws: e.g., beginners who have certain cards boost the number and artificially increase their skill group, and get smashed. Additionally I can assemble a deck of random mythics and rarest that is completely garbage and get pitted against tier 1 decks and expert players.
Secondly, the matchmaking system uses an extremely flawed mechanic that forces decks to play against certain archetypes. There’s a reason players were complaining about constantly facing certain colors and archetypes game after game, and switching decks caused them to see a completely different group of colors and archetypes repeatedly.
My next, and biggest reason, is one that is highly controversial that will see you heavily brigaded and attacked on the Mtga Reddit. That is the shuffler. Without getting into it for the sake of my fingers typing on this damn phone, the shuffler is completely rigged on the backend and completely broken. Not only does this make sense considering the anonymous post a few years ago that was supposedly by an ex - and highly disgruntled wotc employee that worked on MTGO - admitted that their entire system was rigged and the outcome of any game could be decided from the backend. It makes sense after you play thousands upon thousands of paper games since 1998 and then a few thousand on arena, where it becomes apparent the shuffler is not-so-random. Both bo1 and bo3 are rigged. There’s a few very analytical posts that were absolutely vilified on the reddit but heavily supported on the official wotc arena forum.
After climbing to mythic over the course of about 500-600 games, which is the average considering the ladder is designed to force losses, to keep the whales and addicts playing and buying, I grew highly demotivated to ever do it again.
Not to mention all the completely degenerate BS people do on arena to steal wins; like the nexus players who had no win con and only forced people to quit after they got fed up of watching solitaire, which I’d you don’t know is strictly illegal and will get you banned from tournaments.
And on top of that you have the finicky engine which causes frame drops and crashes on top end gaming machines. And then of course the constant disconnects.
Paper magic is one of the best pro games out there. But I do not trust arena nor can I look at it and legitimately call it a “esports ready” experience.
I vote that this series be changed to Two Guys In Chairs
Two Guys in Entirely Normal Armchairs
gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=439535
Hi there, isn't Brawl just a real budget Commander alternative, which combines cracking Boosters with the enjoyment of playing them without purchasing the play set. There might be Budget Commander Decks out there, but if you are not really into buying Singles or if your LGS is not offering it, this helps a lot with playing your actual cards if you are kind of new to the game.
This feels a lot like it was filmed like the day before the Pioneer announcement.
It's not just the ability to get a draft going at any time, it's also the ability to draft with no time limit on picks. I do think for events having some with human drafts would be a good thing in the long term, but I do understand why the Arena team hasn't made that a focus yet.
I actually do love the Profs socks. Very classy
Absolutely modern or power cube. The first time I saw Vince playing a proper cube like that a few weeks ago was absolutely insane to see. The only draft I've known is the shitty MTGA draft and seeing that many rarest and mythical just looks incredible
Thanks Vince. I only play eternal formats so I didn't know about the arena bot problem
I don't mean to be cynical, but I am very, VERY suspicious of the claims the devs apparently made to the Prof while it was in Alpha.
ikr "the engine learns"? wtf i AM a computer science major and that would be a scientific achievement I am very interested in reading about
@@JesterOnCrack he means that once a mechanic is in the game for the first time it is easier to put in similar mechanics and once the interactions are set the same is true
I actually considered doing electro shock during a charity mtg stream before. Would be kind of hilarious.
Loving the content you guys have made here.
Awesome as always! One of my favourite MtG based series - never not entertaining.
Arena really needs Pauper,Modern, or Commander something besides Standard. I literally just log on and do my dailies then logoff unless one of my friends is playing Standard gets stale really fast.
Same standard gets so stale extremely quick and just log off
I also think alot of the staleness comes from not only seeing the same decks over and over especially the higher in tiers you climb, but really the fact it feels like you're playing solitaire because outside of emotes like HI or GG you can't really banter or communicate with your opponent at all.
How many gems would you be willing to pay for a pauper league? No point in using resources to things that don't return a profit.
Great video, great synergy. Keep it up.