sold the studio years ago im now retired in asia, the sub woofer we used was a tannoy powered unit as these amps were not used for ub regions which i cant remember but it work well down on LF 🙂
The transistors in a class B (A/B) amp actually work harder at 63.6% than they do flat out (1 divided Pi equals .636 times 100 equals 63.6%). At this level the transistors consume the most power thus run hotter, distort most at this level (if not compensated for with good circuit design) .
Jose Pedro Espinosa we did try at different levels but felt unsafe to run them wide open, and then adjust the input levels (they were feeding Tannoy DMT 15s I didnt want them burning up voice coils on sounds out of hearing range such as positive feedback, (from memory but they went years ago in the bin) I actually considered taking out the preamps where the distortion was coming from, the main PA section was probably ok...
So this amp doesnt meet specs when its volume controls are NOT turned all the way up. So what? If you have a separate amp, its volume is controlled by a preamplifier. The Behringer controls are not meant to be used like normal volume controls because they will wear out if used too much. The proper way to use this amp is to turn its volume controls all the way up and use an active or passive pre amp to control its volume. Used this way, it sounds fine and is an excellent bargain.
is this amp any better in tone and soundstage than their old EP2500? - that one had a flattened sense of depth - my recent solid state experience is limited to a XLS2000
Why is anyone using the level controls for volume control anyway!?! These are power amps(Dont really want to credit them with the term POWER amps as I think mine is underpowered,at least compared to my life expierence of low end hifi integrated amps) you set that to maximum and just use your the volume control on your pre amp. Everyone know this oh and the crappy noise floor of the amp doesnt help,not reference at all.
Thank You you just saved me making a big mistake! Anything in this price range that you would recommend? Can go up a few quid if needed to drive my old faithful JBL's 175W @ 8 Ohm....
sorry if my question sounds inexperienced . . but i was looking at these amps for a small home studio project I've been putting together for awhile now. I noticed these were the most reasonably priced amps for the value. . so my question is; if I were to use this amp to push a set of small monitors, i should set the amp to maximum, and adjust the volume from the preceding mixer to get the purest sound? And what's an example of distortion you would hear by the defective amp to the ave listener?
I have one of these bridged into a single 8 ohm load. You are saying I will get better sound if I turn the right volume down all the way, the left volume knob up all the way and then control the gain with previous device in my system? Thanks!
@ebaystars , i know you post this a long time ago but, i want to know something,... If the amp is on mono mode (bridge), did the problem will still there ??? cause i got an A500 but i want to buy another one and make two mono block...? Thanks
@saturnfan32x "if I were to use this amp to push a set of small monitors, i should set the amp to maximum, and adjust the volume from the preceding mixer to get the purest sound?" Yep. (Question is, do you need that much power at all? Or maybe go active after all?) That really is some BAD distortion there, and my setup here made it plainly audible, too. (Reassuring for an audio quality snob. ;)) Definite level control design FAIL. Well, if it's too cheap, there's prolly a catch...
Hi and thanks a lot indeed for the very interesting tests (i own an A500 myself) Do you think that replacing input pots with better ones will cure this distortion issue ? Or the amp will distort anyway for low power output ? I have noticed that many amps perform better at higher power than very low output powers (i.e. < 1 Watt). Thanks a lot and kind regards, gino
gino Gino late reply I got remarried in the intervening years, yes we did consider cutting out the input stage but in the end they went back and we got some better amps. best wishes from Thailand where I live now, in the sun, :-)
Hi again ... i know my comment is very late and plese excuse me for that. But i wonder if you have experienced the issue using balanced and unbalanced inputs as well. It is very strange behaviour indeed. It should not disappear raising the volume up to 100%. Very strange. Maybe it is due to how the volume pots are wired ?
You know the ADA8000, in the recording world is known as a crap piece of gear, incapable of getting even semi pro sound out of it, YET with the Custom Made DAW and Digital Software Console for concert mixing that I use; all we use is behringer ADA 8000 and now the ADA 8200, and we OUT PERFORM by leaps and bounds every other DAW and Live Digital Console on the market hands down! It truly sounds Analog, without all the extreme noise! it really appears that there is a whole bunch of artificial conversations going on about gear ie: whats pro and what is not pro quality ETC. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT??!
This measurement has nothing to do with the position of the gain (volume..) control, but everything with the amplitude. This is crossover distortion - you can look at theaudiocritic. Up to about 1W, you have over 0.35% THD with mainly second order distortion. They point to it as "noise", but it's not - it's typical bad design.
i find this very strange. I am sure that an expert could give an explanation after looking at the schematic. Sometimes the input attenuator is creating issue for the way it is wired ... a coupling cap rightly placed could solve the issue usually.
Augustine Leudar Ok why should I do this when it was new, thanks anyway, good point tho, but its HISTORY and gone and all the other behringer kit has gone up the dump :-(
Augustine Leudar Thank you Augustine, Yep interesting, broadly speaking, the same conclusions but better analytical tests than me but I was just doing it for fun before thrwoing them out, but why should I have to tune it up (if I am a home studio user) without spectrum analysis gear? Behringer should be ashamed of their quality controls, this was probably manufactured in China to save costs but then again so is most recent focusrite stuff and that's good!
AH! I know you posted this 3 months ago but hopefully its not too late. POWER LAST then into speakers! if you put power into all those signal components make sure you have a fire extinguisher nearby.
Just get a rackmounted sansamp and a line6. Put it in a rack and use furman or some other power conditioner and that's all you need EVER. drag 2 channels to the mixer and have the best of both worlds.
Sorry...that should be 2 divided by PI = .636 (not 1 divided by PI - formula for half wave rectifier ....oops). Manufacturers found out years ago, first when solid state amps came out, that they were having problems with some amps blowing transistors and stuff at around 60-70% volume levels but operated at higher levels they would work OK. Its just basic Class AB circuit design taught at any college level analog electronics course.
What I don't get is you have all this really expensive gear and you buy these cheep entry level amps. I mean you can't not blame them, there cheap, they have been designed to a budget for beginners.
@@dedskin1 sorry for the very late reply I got remarried and live in thaialnd Yes indeed "hifi" I loved your acid comment - hi fi is just a weird consumer thing where they sit and imagine all sorts of things then get very cross arguing about it. The only place the music sounds good AND EXACTLY as it should be is in the studio where the mix/live is being recorded, in the seat of the engineer, after that it's down to taste - HP sauce on Chips and Silver oxygen fart free wanker cables in line matched to the earth spin resonance and anti gravity magnetic operating syndorme - We sold all our Quad amps at high prices on ebay (thank you hifiers), and I am keeping my Tannoys which I was brought up on. Still can't believe this post got 47k views - Uncle Bertie Berhringer must be pissed , my daughter Lash Wynter just reported the integral LCD screen died on her digital band monitor mixerer (Behringer of course) So, well, it was nice try to go cheap and it failed. Dumpster for them. Thailand for me and no more second hand army clothes...
@@ebaystars i get you bro . man learns trough experience , i have Behringer as well , studio monitors , not expensive 500-600$ a pair when i got them , its been some time , more then 10 years , they are still working :) Truth be told i know electronics , so i changed lots of stuff on them , even drivers on one , but it didnt fail , i dropped a screw driver and ripped the membrane , so its my fault :) They never failed , but i dont even turn them off , i know how to take care of electronics . The biggest damage is done by Temperature changes , so i keep it on , stable temperature and preventive maintenance , and they work for more then 10 years , close to 15, when i got it they said , oh Behringer its gonna brake on you , its cheap , when indeed its not , its build quality is higher then Mackie monitors that served for copying the design . But mackie's have Switching PSU , like a computer PSU , while Behringer uses Linear Transformers , that is without question better and more expensive . but i didn't know that when i got them . So when i say Reference i mean that Studio sound , no bullshit straight to the point type of sound . Due to this most studio gear sounds the same, and this is good , its Reference Sound , achieved by using active crossovers , multiple amp stages and so on . Now when i say Hi Fi i mean colored sound , its done in different way , more pleasure in it then accuracy . And when i say Audiophile , i mean clueless guy who thinks his 10 000$ speaker is more precise and raveling then studio monitors because it costs more , when electronics and electroacoustics dont care about cost . Active crossovers are cheaper then good passive ones , and are still better at what they do , its just how she goes . But non the less i do have Precise Reference system , as well as Hi fi system , for example if im listening to old music not recorded real well , it sound better on less precise Valve gear . Its optimized for that . So there is place for everything . If i had 100 000$ to burn i would probably go for some expensive stuff ,something audiophile So i can see my self owning Audiophile gear even if i dont really believe in it . Im not condemning anyone except those that are clueless as to what is what , and get stuff because its "in" , its popular , rather then going for informed and educated choices .But i guess not everyone knows electronics as good as i do , i have education in the field and good amount of research and DIY, some ppl just dont have that , cant blame them i guess .
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/48PxwspDvrE/mqdefault.jpg)
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](/img/tr.png)
good to know, from now on i'll max the a500 out and adjust volume through my audio interface. thanks 👍
So what replacement amp would one buy instead of the A500? Looking for a great 2 ch home audio power amp. Anything costing similar to A500?
he is a bomb disposal expert
hahahahaha BANG!
Does this amplifier work well with a 500 rms subwoofer? Does it really go down to 20hz?
sold the studio years ago im now retired in asia, the sub woofer we used was a tannoy powered unit as these amps were not used for ub regions which i cant remember but it work well down on LF 🙂
The transistors in a class B (A/B) amp actually work harder at 63.6% than they do flat out (1 divided Pi equals .636 times 100 equals 63.6%). At this level the transistors consume the most power thus run hotter, distort most at this level (if not compensated for with good circuit design)
.
Those amps only need to be calibrated, not replaced.
Jose Pedro Espinosa we did try at different levels but felt unsafe to run them wide open, and then adjust the input levels (they were feeding Tannoy DMT 15s I didnt want them burning up voice coils on sounds out of hearing range such as positive feedback, (from memory but they went years ago in the bin) I actually considered taking out the preamps where the distortion was coming from, the main PA section was probably ok...
Wow, that escalated quickly! :-P
Thanks for the interesting videos.
I wonder if they have corrected this defect now (2019)?
That was pretty pronounced from -80 dB to around -45 dB or a little under ...
So this amp doesnt meet specs when its volume controls are NOT turned all the way up. So what? If you have a separate amp, its volume is controlled by a preamplifier. The Behringer controls are not meant to be used like normal volume controls because they will wear out if used too much. The proper way to use this amp is to turn its volume controls all the way up and use an active or passive pre amp to control its volume. Used this way, it sounds fine and is an excellent bargain.
the distorted waveform on the CRO is not visible in this video. Can we have a clear closeup of the distorted part of the waveform?
is this amp any better in tone and soundstage than their old EP2500? - that one had a flattened sense of depth - my recent solid state experience is limited to a XLS2000
Why is anyone using the level controls for volume control anyway!?! These are power amps(Dont really want to credit them with the term POWER amps as I think mine is underpowered,at least compared to my life expierence of low end hifi integrated amps) you set that to maximum and just use your the volume control on your pre amp. Everyone know this oh and the crappy noise floor of the amp doesnt help,not reference at all.
Thank You you just saved me making a big mistake! Anything in this price range that you would recommend? Can go up a few quid if needed to drive my old faithful JBL's 175W @ 8 Ohm....
sorry if my question sounds inexperienced . . but i was looking at these amps for a small home studio project I've been putting together for awhile now. I noticed these were the most reasonably priced amps for the value. . so my question is; if I were to use this amp to push a set of small monitors, i should set the amp to maximum, and adjust the volume from the preceding mixer to get the purest sound? And what's an example of distortion you would hear by the defective amp to the ave listener?
I have one of these bridged into a single 8 ohm load. You are saying I will get better sound if I turn the right volume down all the way, the left volume knob up all the way and then control the gain with previous device in my system? Thanks!
@ebaystars , i know you post this a long time ago but, i want to know something,... If the amp is on mono mode (bridge), did the problem will still there ??? cause i got an A500 but i want to buy another one and make two mono block...? Thanks
@saturnfan32x
"if I were to use this amp to push a set of small monitors, i should set the amp to maximum, and adjust the volume from the preceding mixer to get the purest sound?"
Yep. (Question is, do you need that much power at all? Or maybe go active after all?)
That really is some BAD distortion there, and my setup here made it plainly audible, too. (Reassuring for an audio quality snob. ;)) Definite level control design FAIL. Well, if it's too cheap, there's prolly a catch...
Hi and thanks a lot indeed for the very interesting tests (i own an A500 myself)
Do you think that replacing input pots with better ones will cure this distortion issue ?
Or the amp will distort anyway for low power output ?
I have noticed that many amps perform better at higher power than very low output powers (i.e. < 1 Watt).
Thanks a lot and kind regards, gino
gino Gino late reply I got remarried in the intervening years, yes we did consider cutting out the input stage but in the end they went back and we got some better amps. best wishes from Thailand where I live now, in the sun, :-)
Hi again ... i know my comment is very late and plese excuse me for that. But i wonder if you have experienced the issue using balanced and unbalanced inputs as well. It is very strange behaviour indeed. It should not disappear raising the volume up to 100%. Very strange. Maybe it is due to how the volume pots are wired ?
You know the ADA8000, in the recording world is known as a crap piece of gear, incapable of getting even semi pro sound out of it, YET with the Custom Made DAW and Digital Software Console for concert mixing that I use; all we use is behringer ADA 8000 and now the ADA 8200, and we OUT PERFORM by leaps and bounds every other DAW and Live Digital Console on the market hands down! It truly sounds Analog, without all the extreme noise!
it really appears that there is a whole bunch of artificial conversations going on about gear ie: whats pro and what is not pro quality ETC.
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT??!
E isso trocando os capacitores resolveria? obrigado
This measurement has nothing to do with the position of the gain (volume..) control, but everything with the amplitude. This is crossover distortion - you can look at theaudiocritic. Up to about 1W, you have over 0.35% THD with mainly second order distortion. They point to it as "noise", but it's not - it's typical bad design.
i find this very strange. I am sure that an expert could give an explanation after looking at the schematic. Sometimes the input attenuator is creating issue for the way it is wired ... a coupling cap rightly placed could solve the issue usually.
is this amp not good then ?
apparently theres some callibration knobs inside the amp that allow you to improve things :
ixbtlabs.com/articles2/proaudio/behringer-a500.html
Augustine Leudar Ok why should I do this when it was new, thanks anyway, good point tho, but its HISTORY and gone and all the other behringer kit has gone up the dump :-(
Augustine Leudar Thank you Augustine, Yep interesting, broadly speaking, the same conclusions but better analytical tests than me but I was just doing it for fun before thrwoing them out, but why should I have to tune it up (if I am a home studio user) without spectrum analysis gear? Behringer should be ashamed of their quality controls, this was probably manufactured in China to save costs but then again so is most recent focusrite stuff and that's good!
AH! I know you posted this 3 months ago but hopefully its not too late. POWER LAST then into speakers! if you put power into all those signal components make sure you have a fire extinguisher nearby.
Just get a rackmounted sansamp and a line6.
Put it in a rack and use furman or some other power conditioner and that's all you need EVER.
drag 2 channels to the mixer and have the best of both worlds.
Sorry...that should be 2 divided by PI = .636 (not 1 divided by PI - formula for half wave rectifier ....oops). Manufacturers found out years ago, first when solid state amps came out, that they were having problems with some amps blowing transistors and stuff at around 60-70% volume levels but operated at higher levels they would work OK. Its just basic Class AB circuit design taught at any college level analog electronics course.
What I don't get is you have all this really expensive gear and you buy these cheep entry level amps. I mean you can't not blame them, there cheap, they have been designed to a budget for beginners.
i was given them then I threw them away
I've been working for 2 months to save money for this amp and you throw them away ? 😢
Why is he dressed like a bomb disposal expert? maybe he thinks there is an IED round the back of his Matsui graphic equalizer.
hahaha its cold where we live !
It has distortion, oh my gosh! :D
This is the reason it costs nothing, go buy super duper hifi audiophile amp for 100k dollars.
these are not hi fi, these are reference , flat , dry amps ,
@@dedskin1 sorry for the very late reply I got remarried and live in thaialnd Yes indeed "hifi" I loved your acid comment - hi fi is just a weird consumer thing where they sit and imagine all sorts of things then get very cross arguing about it. The only place the music sounds good AND EXACTLY as it should be is in the studio where the mix/live is being recorded, in the seat of the engineer, after that it's down to taste - HP sauce on Chips and Silver oxygen fart free wanker cables in line matched to the earth spin resonance and anti gravity magnetic operating syndorme - We sold all our Quad amps at high prices on ebay (thank you hifiers), and I am keeping my Tannoys which I was brought up on. Still can't believe this post got 47k views - Uncle Bertie Berhringer must be pissed , my daughter Lash Wynter just reported the integral LCD screen died on her digital band monitor mixerer (Behringer of course) So, well, it was nice try to go cheap and it failed. Dumpster for them. Thailand for me and no more second hand army clothes...
@@ebaystars i get you bro . man learns trough experience , i have Behringer as well , studio monitors , not expensive 500-600$ a pair when i got them , its been some time , more then 10 years , they are still working :) Truth be told i know electronics , so i changed lots of stuff on them , even drivers on one , but it didnt fail , i dropped a screw driver and ripped the membrane , so its my fault :) They never failed , but i dont even turn them off , i know how to take care of electronics . The biggest damage is done by Temperature changes , so i keep it on , stable temperature and preventive maintenance , and they work for more then 10 years , close to 15, when i got it they said , oh Behringer its gonna brake on you , its cheap , when indeed its not , its build quality is higher then Mackie monitors that served for copying the design .
But mackie's have Switching PSU , like a computer PSU , while Behringer uses Linear Transformers , that is without question better and more expensive .
but i didn't know that when i got them .
So when i say Reference i mean that Studio sound , no bullshit straight to the point type of sound .
Due to this most studio gear sounds the same, and this is good , its Reference Sound , achieved by using active crossovers , multiple amp stages and so on .
Now when i say Hi Fi i mean colored sound , its done in different way , more pleasure in it then accuracy .
And when i say Audiophile , i mean clueless guy who thinks his 10 000$ speaker is more precise and raveling then studio monitors because it costs more , when electronics and electroacoustics dont care about cost .
Active crossovers are cheaper then good passive ones , and are still better at what they do , its just how she goes .
But non the less i do have Precise Reference system , as well as Hi fi system , for example if im listening to old music not recorded real well , it sound better on less precise Valve gear . Its optimized for that .
So there is place for everything .
If i had 100 000$ to burn i would probably go for some expensive stuff ,something audiophile
So i can see my self owning Audiophile gear even if i dont really believe in it .
Im not condemning anyone except those that are clueless as to what is what , and get stuff because its "in" , its popular , rather then going for informed and educated choices .But i guess not everyone knows electronics as good as i do , i have education in the field and good amount of research and DIY, some ppl just dont have that , cant blame them i guess .