Back to Basic D&D (B/X) Saving Our Game: Group -vs- Lone Wolves

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  • Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 66

  • @SentientSoup
    @SentientSoup 3 года назад +10

    Well said, Prof DM and Retro DM Ray! It has become the “everyone gets a trophy“ mentality. Yet in THIS style of play, everyone can actually acquire said trophy by working together WITH their differences.
    Great information.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад +3

      Thnx a lot, Bro! Indeed... it's the heartbeat of D&D that's missing our just thrown aside today for sure.... quite sad... but let's keep it alive and well and train up others with us! 👊😁👍

  • @dontyodelsohard2456
    @dontyodelsohard2456 Год назад +3

    You brought up something that I have moderately strong opinions about: Modern mapping tools.
    At first it feels great "Look, look, you enter a room and dynamically you see the room!" But boy after the luster wears off... There are problems.
    Firstly, there is no uncertainty... Everything is just there or it isn't. Nothing is obscured by the dark of a corner, they see clearly because the torch extends 60 feet.
    Secondly, with advanced stuff, you already spent hours drawing (or creating digitally), scanning, then setting up online... You're already in too deep if you decide "Hey, maybe I want a door here," and it not being obvious you didn't plan this part.
    Thirdly, metagaming... I was so proud of this dungeon I once drew and I thought everything went well and as they reach the end they say "Okay, we walk back." I try to narrate it... But no, they insist they can clearly see the way they came, they just walk back. What if I wanted a wandering monster? Didn't matter, I guess, they were done and GM be damned they were just going to walk out, no RP, no checking to see if that monster they left in the front of the dungeon was there, nothing.
    That last one was my fault, really, for letting them have too much control... But it wouldn't have been near as easy had they not had a map laid out in front of them that detailed exactly how they got there... Instead I could've coyly asked "You leave? Okay, which way did you enter?"
    That single game which I was not so subtly alluding to has forced me to vow to never show my dungeon map again!!! (If I ever get a party that isn't complete newbies... Which is all I have gotten since then).
    But yeah, I have been pushed to a more "Old-School" understanding of how to run a dungeon... They want a map? They can make it.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  Год назад +1

      The more my family has begged me to use digital maps, the worse the experience has indeed been for me. True, based upon my begged-for/used experiences now.
      Second, what I mean by them making their map as they go along, is indeed never likely going to be an exact, or totally right copy anyway, so maybe they get turned around a bit and stumble on the return trip due to thar. But yes, perhaps you gave too much leash there. Thnx for the comment! 👍

  • @doctorstuffy8821
    @doctorstuffy8821 3 года назад +6

    These are the types of videos I look for on RUclips. Thank you so much for this.
    I’ll be listening more than once, as I’ll let my son listen with me later on as he’s at his grandmothers house.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад

      ABSOLUTELY! Thnx for watching and sharing! 👍Harder and harder to come by, unfortunately.

  • @rafaelbacelar1757
    @rafaelbacelar1757 Год назад +2

    The game feels so more intense and personal when you are a adventure in a group than a super human that can fight alone and just show off with others super humans.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  Год назад +1

      Absolutely 💯 spot-on! 👊

  • @crested_yeti
    @crested_yeti 2 года назад +1

    Coming here from the Old Warlock ep! Really resonated with your idea that the Old School “Hero” was a hero in a group, not out for “me, myself and I” which I see too much in 5e. Great vid!

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  2 года назад +1

      Thank you very much for saying so! It saddens me about the game when we've taken it this way!! 😒
      Welcome aboard! Old Warlock is pretty awesome. 👍🤓

  • @brettsimpson1505
    @brettsimpson1505 3 года назад +4

    Great video. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I started my role-playing journey in 1981 with this Rulebook and while I explored many other systems over the years that followed, B/X D&D is what I run today and we have a thriving campaign world to attest to the strength and validity of the system. I look forward to watching more of your videos, DM Ray.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад +1

      That's really cool you've still got B/X running like that. Right now that's not something we can totally commit to with the kids as they are kinda spoiled on Pathfinder 2e and D&D 5E, but I'm working on it slowly with them... they're pretty young and green. Thnx for watching!

    • @brettsimpson1505
      @brettsimpson1505 3 года назад +1

      @@retrodmray: my kids play B/X D&D- and there have been quite a few people enter our group from 5e, so hang in there. As Mary Poppins said “Anything can happen if you let it!”

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад

      Love the quote! Thnx, will do. 👊

  • @joezemaitis9781
    @joezemaitis9781 8 месяцев назад +1

    I enjoyed your video. I was grinning the whole time as I was listening to you expound on the virtues of B/X while I was staring at TRAMP's drawing on p. 109 of the AD&D PHB!

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  8 месяцев назад

      Thnx! Welcome to the channel, sir!

  • @paulofrota3958
    @paulofrota3958 3 года назад +4

    Great video! I share many of the sentiments you describe here. There's an OSR game called Lion& Dragon that is a medieval authentic game and I really like it. In this game you start as a level 0 nobody (DCC does the same), not a "hero"... The characters die as flies, but those who survive earn the title of hero. Characters should not come as heroes with 8 page backstories on how special they are... You should earn this backstory in play. And this played backstory will be much better than anything you can come up with.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад +1

      Thnx! I've not seen that, but DCC zero level is how we're starting my kids and wife in Basic Fantasy Rpg and I'm hugely excited! 👍

  • @Korroth
    @Korroth 2 года назад +1

    We’ve been using Basic Fantasy RPG as our base rules. I started playing in 1980 with a Holmes box and went right to AD&D. I don’t remember race as class so I don’t prefer the concept, although it is more subtle than I originally realized and of course can be house ruled away. I also do prefer ascending AC. I also really appreciate Whitebox FMAG.

  • @nrais76
    @nrais76 Год назад +1

    I spent a great deal of tims drawing the map on the Chessex wet erase mat. I found even when i did so, we played more theater of the mind, using the map only to clarify certain things as they arose. That was AFTER using ot a few times and discovering that firstly it distracted and slowed us down and secondly in order to avoid continually avoiding interruptions to draw, i had to draw it all or mostly out ahead of time, thus giving away certain things. In the end, its best for our group to have the universal dungeon encounter terrain as suggested by Professor Dungeon Master, and only use it for fights when our descriptions arent doing a good job clarifying everything.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  Год назад

      Indeed they can be distracting if you're group isn't interested in that type of thing. Theater of the mind has a lot of appeal, but you're right, sometimes you gotta break or the battle map to square some things up occasionally. We used crazy means sometimes to do that back in the day. 🤓👍

  • @sjsblacksmith1693
    @sjsblacksmith1693 3 года назад +4

    I often tell people that my favorite class is Elf. I like the flavor of BX, and if the DM let's you improvise, and gives you credit for skills and abilities... (There is a laboratory up on the 3rd floor, I have some oil, can my Wizard make some Greek fire, or a fancy molotov cocktail that we can use on the kobolds in the first level of the dungeon under the keep?) In 5e they have the skills and tool proficiencies, that empower the players... If you know the system and are using all the options there is a lot of crunch and power creep. If you are a power gamer with poor self-control, it can be obscene. (What? It's in the rules...) I have to admit the unified mechanics of a modern d20 system are nice. But do I need 13 classes, and 150+ subclasses. Too much choice, and weird flavor combos? And why are the evil paladins more mechanically superior to the good versions? I like the OSR movement, but until you get Matt Mercer on board, the bulk of new players are going to want what he has. Some of the mature gamers, might be tempted to the Grognnard side, for a one shot or a campaign with a buddy who is passionate about OSR games. More experienced gamers the system doesn't matter as much, a good story, some fighting, some loot, and mechanics that don't completely stiffle play... (I loved Chart Law by the way, or Rolemaster) There are a lot of very young people playing 5e, they have different tastes and different expectations. They grew up watching anime, and playing video games, and very progressive Post Modern politics. ( You know it's bigoted and racist to protray all orcs as evil, and let's not talk about racial backgrounds. How colonial...) It is insanely difficult to steam the tide of the current direction of culture and thus gaming, it has too much inertia. You can talk about archetypal realities, and the importance of the hero, and the community of an adventuring party. That will get traction, but telling people they are doing it wrong, and we need to "Save" the game, will get you lynched by a flash mob of our young enlightened brothers, sisters, and gender nonbinary fellow gamers... Preach brother, but don't get yourself de-platformed...

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад +4

      I would agree with a lot of what you're saying here, but the Saving Our Game part is my 'must stay' part. It's a deep desire for getting back to what Gary was talking about and what they played, and that has to be my hard line, with room for "play what You want".
      However, as I always will try to say, it's my opinions here, and if you don't hold those but are having fun doing what you're doing in you're game, then game on and enjoy!
      Can't change all of that mess you mentioned, but I can speak into it and hope...until they do cut me off anyway. 🤔 Thnx for the view and your thoughts, for sure! Loved your "There's a lab up there..." part!

  • @paulofrota3958
    @paulofrota3958 3 года назад +3

    Really cool video. Hope your channel grows and you keep doing this content.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад +1

      Thnx a lot! I hope so too, and I'm still going strong. Keep leaving these great comments, Bro

  • @donc7664
    @donc7664 2 года назад +2

    Wwoooo. Church! Makin me a Moldvay believer for sure. 🙏

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  2 года назад +1

      Thnx!! Hope so, but good old school feel and play is the goal here, and some others can capture that too...although not exactly like good ole' Moldvay. 🤓😁Thnx for coming onboard and giving me a sub and comment! Enjoy the content!! 👍

  • @manofaction1807
    @manofaction1807 Год назад +1

    1-3rd level was some of the most Lethal. You didn't just have to worry about the monsters.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  Год назад

      Absolutely right! Lol 🤓 👍 Thnx for the comment!

  • @shockerck4465
    @shockerck4465 3 года назад +4

    Im lucky enough to have 2 copies of each. Great memories. I hoot you talk about The Keep on the Borderlands and the Caves of Chaos in the future
    Subbed

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад +1

      I'll head that direction in the future for sure. I'll likely not cover how I'd do it, there's a lot of that out there, but I'll certainly cover those Old School Modules! Thnx for the sub! 👊

  • @TheBattlinBarrowGaming
    @TheBattlinBarrowGaming 2 года назад +2

    I love using miniatures have since the 80s but me and my players always knew they were just a reprecentation and not an acurate description. Playing with a newer player now I forgot that and I have to remind them that its just a mini. Ive had "but that model doesnt have a spear on it" type of thing a few times. Where as I used them to enhance my games visually nowdays they can distract players.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  2 года назад

      I agree. I have to remind my kids from time to time that it's just a representation, not an exact replica....theater of the mind can be harder and harder to teach in a world of screens all around you.
      Don't get me wrong here, I love digital maps for their artistic creativity and ease of use as the DM, but....
      Just like those digital assets, I also like mini's for similar reasons, plus ease of understanding facing and visualization of difficult movement or encounter scenarios, but they can go all wrong with some folks for sure.
      Thnx for the comment! 👍

  • @TableTopFamilyFun
    @TableTopFamilyFun Год назад +1

    Enjoyed this video. I will say, My current gaming group with my kids is a little bit different in that they are very young so I have to give a little more lee way. I don't do death (that includes monsters etc ... I Incapacitate or they are frozen etc ... ), but I don't just allow everything to go their way either. I recently moved to Utah and I see here exactly what you are saying regarding Modern characters etc .... in checking out the local gaming stores. I have never had a weird character. My go to Character is ... a Rogue or Thief (Usually always inspired in some way by my Grandfather who grew up in Fatima Portugal and stowed away on a boat by himself at 9 years old to travel to the Americas. .... back in the 1930s). I was always just a human, now am mixing it up a bit and playing as a gnome, but thats about as crazy as I have ever gotten (A Gnomish Rogue). Our Party currently consists of ... A Human Ranger (my Daughter), A Halfling Fighter (My Son), A Half Elf Druid (My WIfe), and I tag along as a Gnomish Rogue. However my standard gaming group from 2010 to 2018 played a lot of Rifts, and Character Death was just a common part of it, the Rifts Universe is very unforgiving. We always played as Mere Mortals and one shot by many characters is enough to kill you in the Multiverse. In the past I did not do a lot of miniatures, but in modern times with 3d printing and so forth, we have kind of gotten into it. One thing I am not a fan of in modern gaming is .... playing online, or on the computer. I want to play at a table with real dice and real people.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  Год назад

      Awesome story there.... sure flies in the face of open borders today.... sadly.
      Yes, verisimilitude is kinda my thing, and I'm not so sure how that can be a huge thing when playing all the crazy... but I guess to reach his own. The problem lies though in, if you do that, then who or what are the monsters? Thnx for tuning in again and for the wonderful story comments as well! 🤓👍

  • @SoloDungeonCrawler
    @SoloDungeonCrawler 3 года назад +2

    Hey Ray. Just wanted to pop in and say I’m finding these videos very valuable. Loving hearing about your own experiences and take on the mechanics of the old school Roleplaying, it’s inspiring. Are you still running your play by post game on Patreon by the way. That sounds like fun.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад +1

      Thnx, Tom! That's cool of you to say!! As you know, I happen to think your adventures are absolutely amazing. 💯
      I've not gotten enough folks to sign up or even join the Patreon yet, but you'd be the first if you'd like...and you could share and get us started pretty quickly.
      As a bonus, I can provide a pdf (partially anyway due to copyright) of the setting materials. 😁

  • @rolanejo8512
    @rolanejo8512 3 года назад +1

    Any student of Professor Dungeon Master is a friend of mine. Great vid.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад

      I wouldn't say I'm a student of his exactly, but I have watched a few and he's got some great points. Not G-Rated though, but good stuff.

  • @jimm7559
    @jimm7559 Год назад +3

    “Not superheroes, but doing heroic things”- you summed up exactly why 5e (and most likely OneD&D) is not for me. I have no interest in role playing superheroes! I love old school style play.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  Год назад

      Thnx! 👍Yes indeed. If I want to play superheroes, I'll play Marvel Super Heroes (1980's version...FASERIP), or Villians and Vigilantes. 🤓

  • @Trashloot
    @Trashloot 3 года назад +2

    My players are so used to not failing, that they are near a break down when their character is in danger. They are also upset the moment they fail a check.
    To be honest i don't know how i can teach people that failing can be fun. Especially when people nowadays are used to reloading a video game the moment they don't like a single thing.
    My players all expect to be the chosen one. I don't really know how to combat this ^^"

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад

      YES....EXACTLY! I'm in that boat with ya too 'loot'.
      To be honest with you as well, I feel like we'll either have to stop using Challenge Rating or letting Monster-vs-Party level dictate encounters and such, and revive character-death-due-to-their-choices, it'll only get worse. Like you said, it seems like pushing reset or restarting the level is the new gaming system design mentality and play.
      If you think of other alternatives to push this forward, be sure to share them.
      This issue right here is why I'm saying what I'm saying in these videos, and why, I believe, if we don't get Back to Basic, this game we love will be lost! 👍

  • @nicklarocco4178
    @nicklarocco4178 3 года назад +5

    B/X and BECMI are I think the most fundamental versions of Dungeons and Dragons. AD&D is too fiddly in so many parts, and contains just a deluge of splat books, and alternative materiel, it's almost like trying to run GURPS where first you have decide which rules, and setting you're using, and that can take ages to figure out. 3.5 has some cool ideas, but is borderline actually unplayable because of how important system mastery is to the game. You can have 1 character that can nuke 10 balrogs, and another character at the same level that can barely beat a handful of orcs. 5e is a power fantasy where no one dies, and everything is sunshine and rainbows. 4e is a complete outlier, and though I love it, very much a different game than it's namesake, although 4e does take the idea of team, and group play further than any other edition (even possibly basic), due to how it's designed.
    If you want to go actually explore, and delve some dungeons, dungeons which may contain actual dragons, basic D&D is definitely the way to go.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад +4

      I wholeheartedly agree! It's sad that 5E went this way, and with a great deal of work you can do it sorta old school style, but you're right, it's Marvel Superheroes to start and little to no death threat. Pathfinder 2e is much the same, only even more crunch. Thnx for watching!

    • @haveswordwilltravel
      @haveswordwilltravel 3 года назад

      I played alot of AD&D and man, it was a hot mess. I loved the options for players, especially 2nd ed. but the rules bloat was insane.
      B/X (Moldvay’s version) was clear and understandable. It was where I started and the products from that era, especially “B” and “X” series adventures have always had exactly what was needed to run a great game.

  • @nikkibrowning4546
    @nikkibrowning4546 3 года назад +4

    Jim sent me.

  • @TheArcturusProject
    @TheArcturusProject 2 года назад +2

    If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! I think they should focus on selling new adventures because they are still a company and gotta keep selling more loot.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  2 года назад

      Agreed. And it's sure broke now! I'd say let it die and just go pure old school...that's where the real game is anyway. But hey, that's just IMHO. 👍

  • @swirvinbirds1971
    @swirvinbirds1971 2 года назад +1

    I've always said the game is role playing as in playing your role on a team, not role playing as in acting.
    It's a game, not a script.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  2 года назад +1

      I'll agree fully, with this caveat about what you said too, if you CAN act it out (voice or something), do so. If not, that's ok too, just don't sit there and do nothing but quote your sheet and the rules and lawyer the game with that with the rest of us...you'll have to dismiss yourself if you do that.
      And do not make yourself a solo "hero". It's about the group at the table, not just you. 👍Thnx for tuning in!

  • @frost_dias
    @frost_dias 3 года назад +2

    You've been around the block, I picked up a copy of Adventures in High Fantasy from a used bookstore a while ago and I gotta say, the artwork and the stuff from that era is unlike anything we've got today. I look through the pages and it's exactly what youre describing here. Did you ever play High Fantasy? I've wanted to get a group together to try it but it's such a strange concept to pitch.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад

      I've never played. I'll have to check it out! Thanks for tuning in and Happy storytelling-gaming! 👊 That "old artwork" never get old to me!!

  • @MrRourk
    @MrRourk 3 года назад +3

    I prefer Arcanum
    The new 30th Anniversary Edition is just about perfect.

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  3 года назад +1

      I've never played it, but I'll have to check it out for sure! Thnx for tuning in and Happy gaming!! 🙂

  • @jackal7610
    @jackal7610 Год назад +1

    Good video

    • @retrodmray
      @retrodmray  Год назад +1

      Thanks! Appreciate it, and welcome to the channel! 👍🤓

  • @freddaniel5099
    @freddaniel5099 3 года назад +2

    Awesome vid! 👍

  • @kingbrackish9816
    @kingbrackish9816 3 года назад +2

    MOAR!

  • @manofaction1807
    @manofaction1807 Год назад +1

    With 5 hp.... What could go wrong?