Loop Streetcars | Living St. Louis
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- Опубликовано: 16 янв 2008
- Living St. Louis producer Jim Kirchherr explores the possibility of having streetcars return to St. Louis. Today, two vintage streetcars are on display-one at the Missouri History Museum in Forest Park and the other in the University City loop. A group of people wants to bring them back to St. Louis to boost tourism and city development, as well as offer an alternate means of transportation.
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My father and grandfather were both motormen in the st Louis system. I have on my bookshelf a map of the system as of 1942. Remember the joy of riding next to dad, sitting on the sandbox in a Peter Witt car on the Creve Couer line. I was 5 years old.
What a fantastic memory! I wish I could say the same. I only get to hear the stories from my parents and grandparents when they were still with us.
In the days of the Delmar streetcar line, Delmar west of Skinker was a sophisticated shopping mecca with great dining(Golden Fried Chicken Loaf), theaters (Varsity, Tivoli), bookstores, drug stores and the Loop itself. Putting streetcars back in would be a surefire hit and major tourist attraction at a fraction of what it costs to build light rail.
I was one of those who rode the last cars in St. Louis. A very sad day. Street cars had something about them that Buses simply don't. I used ride every car line still around from one end to the other many times in the 50s and 60s. Contrary to some who think they aren't practical due to immoveable routes, I would say that there is a very satisfying effect knowing where the transportation is. Hearing the light sound of the electric motors and the gentle sway of the cars was mesmerizing to me. I never had that feeling about a Bus. Its sad to think it cost all that money we have now spent to go two miles when we had tracks almost everywhere in place, but the bus manufactures and tire companies wanted the business and shut them down in most american cities. Now that cities are coming back the trolley is the prefect way to get around without fumes spewing from tail pipes.
This is Tammie Miller replying to you. My Grandmother used to tell me about taking the streetcars to downtown St. Louis to go shopping, and my mother rode them to get to school and back here in Granite city. I never got to see one but we could still see the old tracks before they repaved the roads here. I agree with you. It's a shame to think what it would cost to replace what was already there. AND, NO fumes spewing from tail pipes. Electric cars are on their way in, but they haven't got the kinks worked out of them yet so I won't be investing into one of those any time soon. I hope this message finds you well.
Smart zoning is probably the #1 issue. There should be greater encouragement for corner stores, pharmacies, and barber shops to be located adjacent to, or in neighborhoods, the way it used to be.
I remember thinking for years that the trolley line in the Loop would never be built but then they finally did it
And now it’s just taking up space. It ultimately failed
The problem with this plan is that the street cars didn't go anywhere. If they had tied that in with the West End and the Barnes complex, and eventually a downtown terminus, it could have worked. But a trolley only to the History Museum?
I'll hit a few of the comments here in one swoop: 1) the "economic reasons" for buses was dependent on cheap oil - which is largely gone. 2) BOTH main streets and rail right-of-ways need to be protected to discourage sprawl. 3) Careful zoning and incentives will encourage malls, light industry, and corner stores to locate along the right-of-ways. 4) Encourage people & small businesses to locate on these routes rather than build new roads. 5) Relax, you can still keep your car.
Well, they did it, and it failed. Its annual operating expenses of $1.3 million were to be covered mostly by a one-cent sales tax collected by businesses along and near the line but also by fares and advertising. But ridership fell far short of expectations, in part because the delayed arrival of its third streetcar limited operations to four days a week. The trolley ceased operations on December 29, 2019. Proposals to restart it failed in early 2020 and October 2021.
Almost 10 years later and they are just about ready to go. I'm pretty sure they have been testing them for a while now, but I'm not sure when they'll start taking passengers. I've heard late summer of 2017 as an estimate.
Boston also still runs some restored (but true to the original) wartime PCC's on the mattapan ashmont line. (my profile picture is of one)
With the Success of the F-Line in San Francisco. I can not see how St. Louis can pass this opportunity. It will be successful if done right.
Wow, very encouraging. I'm on a committee to to something similiar in Winnipeg Canada. Great report
oops
@@patstoll2090 ???
How about this selling point. It would help ease pollution and doesnt require noxious fuels to run. Therefor lower emissions and cleaner air in the down town area.
Cool !
As long as it is taking for the government agencies to approve the track installation so it can run it is a wonder any city ever had vast networks. My suspicion is that regulations have gone nuts and thwarts progress in ways almost no one wants.
For all you economic streetcar deniers in the U.S., please explain to me why Toronto continues to have lots of streetcars? Until I moved to the suburbs, I took the 501 Queen car to work.
Great video. Streetcars would be an excellent addition to any city.
I have heard the song before and I love it, but I cannot remember the title. Can anyone identify it for me?
I wish someone would. People don't go into the comment section enough in my opinion. I'm replying 13 years later! Haha!
Trolleys were also relied on heavily by the central planners of the Soviet Union. Public control of all means of transportation is one of Engel's principles of Communism from the 1800s. Destroying GM and private vehicle ownership fits right in with that plan.
Used to run in Milan? Ha, they are still very much running! Some are way past 8 yrs old btw, and running smoothly at that: it's much easier to see newer streetcars broken than these old bangers!
And Toronto is about to expand its network in the next two years or so. I do know it plans to purchase new streetcars to replace the current generation dating from 1977 or so.
I don't understand why the milan trams have changed their number
Though this streetcar project isn't a bailout. It's about undoing some of the damage done by previous governments.
They are in motion now, construction is underway.
$200 M later and it runs occasionally on weekends
KingSlimjeezy and now it’s closed foreverrrrrrr
Ok....has this happened yet?
I am well aware what these corporations did to the Key System in the San Francisco area. I do agree with the judgment and I do not agree the damages awarded of $1.
A tremendous injustice. Identical to what is happening in the banking industry today. They behave badly, the government gives them a financial bailout, permits bonus payments to the executives, permits them to keep their positions for bad behavior.
Interesting to me, GM gets a bailout, but says the CEO must go!
Hippocracy!
The road in front of my home is a private street. But I understand your point. It does connect to a public street.
What is disturbing is the trolley is so limited in where it can go. It can not be as flexible to move where the transportation patterns of the people change. At least a bus can take a detour for a couple of days. Trolleys require the installation of a very expensive infrastructure (comparatively).
The auto industry should NOT be bailed out, neither should these trolleys!
This was a developer's ill conceived rent-seeking idea, then the economy went through its correction.
All these comments are old now.----so what's been going on since??
I'm from St.Louis . I remember.
I lived in an apartment on Pershing Ave. It ran from the Loop, up into Clayton.
My thought is this 1: Is the Loop still a place where people go (i.e. Tourists & etc.)?
2: what is the cost of electricity AND maintain cost vs. buses. 3: what happens when the novelty wears off?
I do like the idea generally , IF it can be proven cost effectiveness , and an asset to the community(ies) served.
But government has proven itself to be very wasteful with projects such as this ( money-wise)
Jeff King no they waste money on wars
Mike Ingersoll ......and they pocket most of it.
Hey, the road in front of your home isn't operated on a profit or loss basis. Gas taxes along with other fees only cover about 20% of road expenses & now with the auto industry getting almost $100 billion in bailout money from Uncle Sam. What are you complaining for?
We are in agreement. I have no bone with trolleys or steam locomotives because they are what they are. My issue is we are being asked to preserve something for the interests of a very few. That costs. You & I are being to asked to pay for it without benefit to us.
If mass transit were economical & served more, I would support it. Our current city designs don't make it practical.
Steam locomotives & street cars should be paid for by those who use them or want them preserved. Not me!
Junk them!
Lots of people in the US were able to record *home video in color* as far back as 1951 or 1940??? Or non-Hollywood video, at least
So... wtf was Hollywood's excuse? You'd probably find a relative handful of movies filmed back then in actual color. I've seen and heard of maybe a few, including Wizard of Oz and The King and I. Vast-majority were in B&W until the mid-1960s, right? hm
You haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about. The ratio of colour to b&w was closer to 70% by the early 1950s, during which time various widescreen and wide gauge film formats were introduced.
Nope! No SPLAT!!! I never saw or felt your foot!
Are you having fun roasting hot dogs and marshmallows by the heat of a burning St. Louis street car? I bet you are and with the street car as a heat source, they taste better too!
You have no money and not a realist!
Too expensive! Buses will serve just fine.
Burn them and junk them all!
ouch...they paid so much for it and it was not successful, so yeah..
More expensive junk to maintain!
$32 million for a transportation vehicle which will never see a profit.
Burn it and junk it!
Cockroach! What an appropriate name for such a fatalist.
This project is such a JOKE. Wasting taxpayer money on a project that no one will uses. The reason people stopped using the streetcars is because of people moving out of the metropolitan areas and moving to the suburbs and outlying areas.
No, you are the loser if you give $1 to save this junk or to put the system back into service.
You go ahead and sink your money down a rat hole. At least the city is smart enough to recognize that the entire system was and remains a looser and won't give any money towards this folly of an idea.
Junk them all, cut them up and melt them all down into materials for new transportation products.
Junk the trolley cars, cut them up and melt them down!