In-Depth Guide to Revenge Value in KH2 and KH2FM

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  • Опубликовано: 15 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 121

  • @nahnah390
    @nahnah390 7 лет назад +101

    I think this might be perfect, actually. I'm trying to write a paper for one of my game design courses analyzing/reviewing something about video games, and I of course need sources to cite information from. I chose to talk about how kingdom hearts 2's system is incredibly in depth, and how even in non speed runner games there's all sorts of strategies people might personally discover to figure out how to fight the bosses. And I'm comparing it to BBS which has a significantly... less complex system.
    Despite KH2 having a lot less options than BBS, you're pretty much never going to see someone use a huge portion of BBS's different commands as they're going to have to stick with whatever they've found to be the strongest stuff. Spamming shotlocks, dodge rolls/cartwheels, using surge attacks over and over, all for the sake of invincibility frames. And the only REASON people have to abuse invincibility frames so much is because of a lack of a proper revenge mechanic, instead bosses just randomly deciding that you've done enough and just instantly attacking you without warning.
    And in the end i'd basically point out how with kingdom heart's combat system, less is more, since there's a use for almost everything in KH2, Whereas because BBS spreads itself so thin, it leaves you with very few useful options when you're fighting a superboss. You pretty much HAVE to use the best type of setup to have a chance of winning. Yeah, maybe a few bits of variation here and there, but it pretty much just amounts to the same thing, abusing invincibility frames or stun locking the bosses. And while you can stunlock bosses in KH2, especially if you're doing what's going on in this video, you can't even stun BBS bosses in an actually meaningful way unless you abuse commands that they apparently weren't expecting you to use. Or maybe they did! Maybe they MEANT for people to have decks filled with a bunch of surge moves just to have a chance at beating their unbalanced square button spam of a boss fight...
    Sorry for typing a wall of text here, I'm trying to see if there's something important I might have missed, but from the looks of things I won't need every single possible detail, so I think I'm good for now. But I'd be really appreciative of any other videos that might help my argument. I mean I'm still going to need something to cite for BBS's superbosses being nowhere near as well made as the ones from KH2. But as it stands, this is already quite a bit.

    • @dmas7749
      @dmas7749 7 лет назад +6

      Sounds neat, did it go well?

    • @CursedKeyblade1
      @CursedKeyblade1 6 лет назад +5

      How did it go?

    • @windedStar
      @windedStar 3 года назад +1

      We may never know how it went

    • @xoctavia1418
      @xoctavia1418 3 года назад

      i'm still waiting for how it went.... or did the BBS super bosses kill him :(

  • @MacTonight-i9v
    @MacTonight-i9v 26 дней назад

    From a QA Tester, i absolutely love how you explain these mechanics, breaking the mechanic and giving the breakdown is the principle of feature testing.

  • @Sorakingdom4
    @Sorakingdom4 7 лет назад +34

    Which is why the Fenrir jump and smack on Terra works.

    • @NoobsUnited9000
      @NoobsUnited9000 7 лет назад +18

      Sorakingdom4 The fenrir jump works because it's too quick for Terra to use his revenge. If you miss a frame he will counter attack and you will die. Not because it does so little damage on the revenge metre

    • @zachanikwano
      @zachanikwano 6 лет назад +7

      +GudMast3r 13
      Can confirm, you mess up, Terra will kill you.

    • @Wing0fSilver
      @Wing0fSilver 9 месяцев назад

      The vertical air finisher and vertical ground finisher both have properties that prevent forced revenge during their hit stun. The jump finisher is used because you can jump cancel into another one before the hit stun is over. But once the hit stun is over, they'll retaliate normally, including the forced revenge if their RV is too high.

  • @elektikplayz129
    @elektikplayz129 7 лет назад +58

    lol KH2 is legendary with that kind of game design

  • @rumiyano
    @rumiyano 10 лет назад +33

    I never knew that there was such a thing as this :O and I've been playing KH2 back then a lot until my PS2 broke.

    • @HalfHeartGames
      @HalfHeartGames 10 лет назад +17

      I know right? I think its a great bit of game design, as now I look back on how I had subconsciously noted it when I was playing. It made you feel like you couldn't be too greedy and had to stop hitting in anticipation of a 'reposte'

    • @syrelian
      @syrelian 8 лет назад +2

      Same, when I first learned about Revenge Values it made sense, but this is really nice to see it further explained, also LOL Saix

  • @zachanikwano
    @zachanikwano 6 лет назад +16

    Saix, Xemnas's right hand man, one of the Seekers of Darkness, Master Manipulator..... broken by illiterate teen ginger boy in green tights.

  • @tophfb
    @tophfb 5 лет назад +5

    This was incredibly helpful and really impressive. You did this fight numerous times like flawlessly lol.

  • @ejdavie7733
    @ejdavie7733 8 лет назад +12

    Nice vid. I understood revenge values, but not in so much depth. This is nice.

  • @karakov149
    @karakov149 10 лет назад +2

    Wow that was the best guide BB thanks for that.I knew about the Revenge value thing but this video cleared up a lot of the questions I had and that hack is really good, thanks man.

  • @cornercampa
    @cornercampa 7 лет назад +21

    omg dat hair doe

  • @SkyDragon90
    @SkyDragon90 7 лет назад +17

    So technical question: does a Slapshot hit add revenge value? I'm looking very carefully and it doesn't seem to.

    • @89iuhgujr3ewtrdfji
      @89iuhgujr3ewtrdfji 7 лет назад +5

      I tried it on Data Roxas, and for me Slapshot added revenge value. I think every normal keyblade attack does.

    • @relaxedbatter
      @relaxedbatter 7 лет назад +6

      Slapshot hit is +1 to RV. Every Keyblade attack (not HIT, e.g., Sora's default 1-2-3 combo with no abilities equipped is 3 attacks, but the second attack is actually two hits) is +1 to RV if grounded, +1.5 if aerial (this includes Horizontal Slash but not Aerial Sweep, which adds 2.5. Aerial Dive [the better version] still only adds 1.5). Finishers add +3 if grounded (except Explosion which adds 6. Remember that Upper Slash counts as a finisher and as such is +3) and +3.5 if aerial.

  • @Yusodus
    @Yusodus 10 лет назад +2

    I never played KH2FM and I don't know the mechanics of Ars Arcanum, but I guess the reason for it not increasing Revenge Value is so that the enemies can't just "dodge" your strongest move (like in KH1). In addition to that, because it is your strongest move and the enemy should counter it so that it at least feels balanced for a casual playthrough, enormous increase of Revenge Value on the last strike.

  • @barbaraespinal9796
    @barbaraespinal9796 5 лет назад +2

    HI! thanks for taking the time to make this video! Question, if I were to use this same method on data Roxas, when should I use trinity? when there are two bars or so left?

    • @mikaelcrucible
      @mikaelcrucible Год назад

      there's a totally different (and really cool and fun to do) strat for data roxas actually! there's videos out there on it but i know bizkit047 has that data org guide everyone praises

  • @cloud1787
    @cloud1787 7 лет назад +7

    I have one question: Can Donald and Goofy fuck up the Revenge Value of a boss? I´m trying to beat Terra and sometimer he breaks out of the combos I do. I only use one Combo+ and I found a way to get way savely after I did my combos but sometimes it dosn´t work. I start to thing that in times like that Goofy used his spin attack on him. Could that be possible?

    • @StickmanSham
      @StickmanSham 7 лет назад

      I'm not sure if they add RV, but you can certainly disable their attacks just in case. Set them to Sora Attack in Customize

    • @nathanlee1325
      @nathanlee1325 7 лет назад

      DeusEx TheGod. Certain moves can add revenge value if sora also happens to be attacking the target at the same time. Also goofy tornado prevents you from adding revenge value while combining your attacks with it.

    • @Iceboltdoom
      @Iceboltdoom 6 лет назад

      terra will automatically counter when his health is 5 bars down also depeding on how you stun him you can hit him more or less 1. if he lands from an attack like the rising sun or keyblade glider you can do 2 combos with 1 finisher and a third combo with 2 finishers. if you reflect his giant cannon back at him you only get 1 combo with a finisher and 1 combo with 2 finishers. 5 bars down terra will auto whip you (kinky) also when he has 5-4 bars left he will trigger his limit break usually disappearing and making the triangles fly around before the sky darkens and he rekts your shit

  • @Graqix
    @Graqix 10 лет назад +9

    Do limits affect revenge value? from what i've seen they never counter when I use a limit

    • @Bl00dyBizkitz
      @Bl00dyBizkitz  10 лет назад +12

      Usually no, limits have no revenge value.

    • @Graqix
      @Graqix 10 лет назад +1

      mmkay thnx for the info.

    • @ZyrusSmith
      @ZyrusSmith 8 лет назад +3

      +Bl00dyBizkitz Trinity Limit has a revenge value but only the finisher.

  • @sebb01243
    @sebb01243 9 лет назад +1

    For me the code you put in doesn't work. I'm using PCSX2CE for the cheat code, but nothing happens, the HP bar is just normal when I enter a boss fight.

  • @TJF588
    @TJF588 10 лет назад +1

    I'm sure the answer's out there, but what conditions allow for stun-locking a boss that's past revenge capacity, and how are they intended to act if they're in the midst of a stun once that capacity is reached?

  • @loganmcclure6439
    @loganmcclure6439 8 лет назад +5

    So, how can we figure out what a boss's revenge value is if we don't have the gauge?

    • @weeddoodie7439
      @weeddoodie7439 7 лет назад +5

      HyperProbability just hit them and try different moves until they hit you back

    • @nathanlee1325
      @nathanlee1325 7 лет назад +17

      Hyper0011 its designed to be a hidden meter.

    • @unddozahaz
      @unddozahaz 6 лет назад +4

      You learn to count

    • @HappyGick
      @HappyGick 3 года назад +1

      What I do is measure combos. How many combos is a boss able to withstand without retaliating. It's easier said than done though. If you know the numbers, it's easier. With a "default" revenge value of 9.5, a boss will be able to withstand one and a half combos plus an extra hit before retaliating (1-2-3 combo without finisher is worth a total of 3 RV, all finishers except Explosion are worth 3, Explosion is worth 6, extra hit worth 1, total 10). If we're using Explosion instead, it's a tad easier to control, as we can do just 1-2-3 combo without Explosion finisher, then 1-2-3 combo again with Explosion finisher, and we know the boss will retaliate and be ready for the attack.

  • @Vladabdf
    @Vladabdf 9 лет назад +1

    Just wondering, are those codes in any particular format? They don't appear to be Raw since I can't put them into a .pnach file and have them active, and EmuHaste doesn't detect PCSX2 running in the background, regardless of settings being correct or not.

  • @flowmotiiion9441
    @flowmotiiion9441 10 лет назад +1

    good tutorial,
    are you gonna make a 1000th video special ^^ ?

  • @adamboy7777
    @adamboy7777 7 лет назад +1

    What format is the code in? Is it for Codebreaker, gameshark, action replay, or raw?

  • @AxelSG
    @AxelSG 9 лет назад +1

    i knew that they had something like that, but this helped me to fully understand it. Do ya think that they will keep using this revenge formula in KH 3? i think they should change it in a way that's not so mechanic :/

    • @syrelian
      @syrelian 8 лет назад +1

      Do you want BBS, with its RNG LOL NOPE I'MMA SMACK YOU again? Or KH1 with its really simplistic counter systems(Massive knockback on humanoids, and simple hit based counters, see Riku and Dark Riku, they both Block and Counter after 4 hits if they are groundbound at the moment), I think Revenge Values is nice, simple to see going on on the surface, and varied enough that you don't eat shit just for poking a guy four times

  • @leonidasiii2857
    @leonidasiii2857 9 лет назад +2

    How does one start speed running if they are interested?

    • @hibryd1
      @hibryd1 9 лет назад +2

      LeonidasIII Create a strategy to get through a game as fast as possible, or learn one that's popular and time yourself doing just that. Run through the game as fast as possible. Like anything else, you just have to practice your stuff.

  • @Its_KaReeM
    @Its_KaReeM 10 лет назад +1

    Man you're awesome!! I understood everything you said!! Now i know when do they counter attack!! Does the same strategy you did on Roxas,Saix and Luxord work with their data battles?? I have another question! Can you do the revenge showcase on terra??

    • @syrelian
      @syrelian 8 лет назад

      Those specific strats don't work exactly, since Data Battles have different RValues(you can probably still DM Skip Luxord if you are strong enough, and Saix still pansies out at the mention of men in tights and little fairies, but Roxas can't be looped like that)

  • @hansholz3654
    @hansholz3654 9 лет назад +1

    1. Do speedrunners always use this programm/ mode/ whatever to make up strats?
    2.Where can you get it?
    3.Can you be killed while you are using it?
    4.Excuse my English if there are some mistakes :D

  • @TheAnimatedGamer
    @TheAnimatedGamer 7 лет назад +1

    please explain how do I get the code to work

  • @Nathan55411
    @Nathan55411 2 года назад

    So is this also how the negative combo strat on Terra works?

  • @OrisX
    @OrisX 10 лет назад +1

    What abilities do you have active during this fight? I keep trying to copy this fight, but something happens after that initial cycle of attacks where you are supposed to Thunder and then Reflect, instead he goes into his revenge attack. So I'm thinking I must be using an extra ability.

    • @meathir4921
      @meathir4921 9 лет назад +1

      You're meant to Thunder then Reflect. Maybe you're attempting the Guard Break version of the loop too many times.

  • @brodius44
    @brodius44 10 лет назад +2

    Any chance you can share what abilities you had set up for this fight with Roxas?

    • @TheLegendaryZed
      @TheLegendaryZed 9 лет назад +1

      +Carl Mortell The only ones that he has on that appear to matter are the finisher that pops enemies up (can't remember the name, but it requires you to hit square), Guard Break (ground finisher), Sliding Dash, and Trinity Limit. The rest is all in the shortcuts to execute the magic combo loop. He has Reflect, Thunder, Blizzard and Ethers, but you don't really need Ethers on shortcut if you can do the Command Menu fast enough.

    • @brodius44
      @brodius44 9 лет назад

      Haha, thanks. I beat this 9 months ago.

    • @TheLegendaryZed
      @TheLegendaryZed 9 лет назад

      I figured you had, but you never know who else is having the same issues, so I figured I'd go ahead and post it for posterity :)

  • @SasaroPenumbra
    @SasaroPenumbra 10 лет назад +1

    Is there a chart are anything out there that has bosses' revenge values and/or how much revenge value each attack has? Also can you put the code in the description?

    • @Bl00dyBizkitz
      @Bl00dyBizkitz  10 лет назад

      The code is in the description.
      ruclips.net/video/yzJLPFTt_8g/видео.html This video has most of what you're looking for. The big chart with every move is in Japanese, but this shortened one is in English.

  • @Frstypwngaming
    @Frstypwngaming 5 лет назад +1

    Is this a ROM, or the actual game? and if it's the actual game, where do I put the code to get said revenge value as my HP

    • @stealthy9156
      @stealthy9156 4 года назад

      It's a rom, you can see it from the fact he uses a mouse, so hes on pc

  • @RaXZerGamingZ
    @RaXZerGamingZ 8 лет назад +2

    i understand now ! thanks

  • @milesstackpoole
    @milesstackpoole 10 лет назад +1

    Could you post a link in the description for the software to reveal revenge value?

    • @Bl00dyBizkitz
      @Bl00dyBizkitz  10 лет назад

      It's just a code.
      /watch?v=orXKSGZxO9Y
      Check the description for the code you're looking for.

    • @milesstackpoole
      @milesstackpoole 10 лет назад

      Bl00dyBizkitz Thanks!

  • @ZyrusSmith
    @ZyrusSmith 8 лет назад +2

    20:39 You mentioned a DM skip. What does that stand for and what is it please?

    • @ZyrusSmith
      @ZyrusSmith 8 лет назад

      Maybe that isn't what it stand for then.

    • @Bl00dyBizkitz
      @Bl00dyBizkitz  8 лет назад +12

      It does stand for Desperation Move. It's not an official term, just one we came up with.

    • @syrelian
      @syrelian 8 лет назад

      I think its more related to being in states, or holding the enemy in a state, where they can't DM validly, until you press their HP past the DM Zone, I know I've skipped Xemnas's "Can You Spare A Heart" through an unintentional extremely well timed Solo Trinity

  • @Strike_Raid
    @Strike_Raid 8 лет назад +1

    You guys are amazing. -bows-

  • @PineappleLimonov
    @PineappleLimonov 7 лет назад +1

    So do limits not add to the RV?

  • @Darksvnn78
    @Darksvnn78 10 лет назад +2

    how you made the revenge value be at your health?

  • @allysticks854
    @allysticks854 9 лет назад +1

    Could you actually stun lock with Peter Pan on Lingering Will just asking

    • @nathanlee1325
      @nathanlee1325 7 лет назад +1

      Captains Legion no, terra does not have the same retaliation mechanic as saix

    • @Profilejc98
      @Profilejc98 3 года назад +1

      You can, but it's much harder because LW can recover faster so you have to time it.

  • @NotLuigi
    @NotLuigi 10 лет назад +1

    Didn't you already do a revenge value vid?

  • @ardianhesa4340
    @ardianhesa4340 8 лет назад +1

    story saix and data saix are the same... use peterpan and hes's out (better yet, he's not even going berserk in data battles)

  • @Graqix
    @Graqix 10 лет назад +1

    is there any bossses with the same revenge value?

    • @Bl00dyBizkitz
      @Bl00dyBizkitz  10 лет назад

      Most bosses all have 12.5, there are a few variations though.

  • @kylesmyth1828
    @kylesmyth1828 10 лет назад +1

    Does this work with the data version of Roxas?

    • @syrelian
      @syrelian 8 лет назад

      The loop, nah, DRoxas has a different Revenge Value

  • @TreyShawn42
    @TreyShawn42 9 лет назад +1

    what system is this for? if this is computer, how can i get this?

    • @TheGugomo
      @TheGugomo 9 лет назад

      PCSX2 is a PS2 emulator. Be sure you have a moderately good computer to play games without too much lag.

  • @juanescarcena
    @juanescarcena 6 лет назад +1

    Does every boss has a different revenge value?

  • @The08linkin
    @The08linkin 10 лет назад +1

    When you freeze an enemy and attack does it effect their revenge value?

    • @syrelian
      @syrelian 8 лет назад

      What do you mean Freeze? The only boss I can think of that gets Frozen by Blizzard is Reaper, and basic enemies don't use Revenge Values I don't think

  • @robosuit
    @robosuit 8 лет назад

    On Roxas, why not just use a second thundaga to force a retaliation when needed?

    • @hipsterroxas2626
      @hipsterroxas2626 8 лет назад +9

      I think it's cause thundaga uses up too much MP, and in speed running they try to use the least amount of stuff to get through the entire game. Using up MP like that would waste eithers

    • @nathanlee1325
      @nathanlee1325 7 лет назад

      Combat Fritos one thunder costs more than blizzard. Two during the combo, if he does a hit with 2 thunders, the 2nd thunder will count as a finisher. During that combo once roxas retaliates, he will be forced to use his second finisher as reflect, which prevents him from using guard break to continue the loop.

    • @slightlyaltruistic9470
      @slightlyaltruistic9470 7 лет назад

      Nathan Lee ..What the actual hell did you just say? I literally can't even tell what you're saying.

    • @dmas7749
      @dmas7749 7 лет назад

      He said that the second Thunder is a finisher...which unless you're using Negative Combo is wrong. For magic, only Magnet affects combo (by going straight into finishers regardless of how many normal attacks you've done, which is why you can't "combo after" it). To compensate, I'll give a better reason.
      Say he does use two Thunders, disregarding the MP cost. His RV would rise until one Thunder breaks it, which would mean that during the second Thunder he's hit on the retaliation.

  • @stalkerzhs1864
    @stalkerzhs1864 7 лет назад +2

    I've heard that on normal final xemnas, you can end the fight without him using laser dome

    • @RiDaku
      @RiDaku 7 лет назад +2

      Impossible, because that's what triggers his vulnerability for defeat. You can see in a lot of Bizkit's videos (Both BL00DYBizkit and bizkit047) that they can take Xemnas down to 1hp but he will not die until after the laser dome.

    • @RiskOfRayne
      @RiskOfRayne 7 лет назад +1

      RiDaku are both of the bizkit channels related?

    • @nevershoutgraham2297
      @nevershoutgraham2297 7 лет назад +2

      Agito Applesauce no, just a coincidence

  • @jakehudanick9472
    @jakehudanick9472 10 лет назад +2

    can it work in data battles?

    • @Bl00dyBizkitz
      @Bl00dyBizkitz  10 лет назад +1

      Revenge Value affects Data battles, but they have a different Revenge Value than their story mode versions. So this loop wouldn't be of much help against Data Roxas.

    • @jakehudanick9472
      @jakehudanick9472 10 лет назад

      okay so really its possible but harder

  • @pyrooooooooooooooooooooooo
    @pyrooooooooooooooooooooooo 3 года назад

    Look at this baby

  • @henoccharlot708
    @henoccharlot708 9 лет назад +1

    Does this work with every K.H game

    • @syrelian
      @syrelian 8 лет назад +1

      Riku actually has something similar to a Revenge Value in KH1, he'll always Guard and Counter after 4 Hits, both on Destiny Islands, and the Hollow Bastion fight, some other humanoid bosses probably have similar systems in play

    • @BlitzkriegOmega
      @BlitzkriegOmega 8 лет назад +5

      Cloudmonkey Sephiroth is a great example of this. on the third hit of any Combo, he'll teleport out of it. this is meant to discourage the use of Combo-plus skills. other bosses simply either have a set number of hits before they jump/blast you out of the combo (Leon/Cloud) or have SIGNIFICANTLY increased knockback on finishers (Clayton)

  • @turnergaming125
    @turnergaming125 8 лет назад +1

    Roxas.....

  • @MynameisSir2
    @MynameisSir2 5 лет назад +2

    Does that mean KDH2 combat is the worst one ?

    • @stealthy9156
      @stealthy9156 4 года назад +3

      KdH2 is supposed to mean kh2? If so, it actually has one of the best. These strats got discovered over years and years of playing by multiple people. I only played 1, CoM, 358/2 days, re:coded, am playing 2, and it has the best so far. Days system is pretty bad, endless health bosses, low damage, limited magic, crits op, few attacks on bosses. Recoded is really good, CoM was cool but weird, kh1 was good. I heart BBS is bullshit

    • @TheAnimatedGamer
      @TheAnimatedGamer 4 года назад +3

      Actually no. If a retaliation method didnt exist then you would get this
      ruclips.net/video/0EGRQIhA_oM/видео.html

    • @reffa2858
      @reffa2858 5 месяцев назад

      ​@@TheAnimatedGamerIt makes it so you have to memorize what attacks you're doing and what the boss is doing. I think its genius and takes alot of effort to play the game this way.

  • @paulie9990
    @paulie9990 10 лет назад

    I liked a snooptoobe video from BeeBee "Something dat aint for silly people"@snooptoobe

  • @matthewgandara282
    @matthewgandara282 5 лет назад +1

    You know this is super bad ass and I love it but i see why this got changed it makes it too predictable if you know when every boss is going to hit you, dont get me wrong like I said I feel like for you to figure this out that's fucking dope but I'm glad it's not like this anymore I personally dont feel the same satisfaction from beating a boss with my own technique versus exploiting the revenge value

    • @Profilejc98
      @Profilejc98 3 года назад +1

      I mean, the alternative would be having enemies break out randomly (like in BBS/DDD) or let them be comboed for eternity. KH3 brought revenge value back, so thankfully Osaka studio realised that the alternative was a terrible idea.

  • @shadow50300
    @shadow50300 9 лет назад

    Great video but cut ur hair please xDDDD a bit !

  • @Soraiko
    @Soraiko 7 лет назад +3

    Pretty face, american, microphone, video.... and BOOM 17K subscribers.
    I guess you're too much busy counting your dollars to check out the comment of a mere human being.

    • @Soraiko
      @Soraiko 7 лет назад +3

      Sorry I needed to spread my jealousy somewhere.