It's rare to find a mechanic that can do that kind of proper diagnosis of an eledctical component these days. Many of them are really good parts swappers. Good work!
I noticed the temperature gauge was close to the "C" mark. This era of Ford computer generally won't enable adaptives (learning mode) until the engine has hit 160°F. Closed loop will work prior to that, but no long-term corrections will be committed to memory. Additionally, the "test" ECU you used was labeled 5.8. The 5.8/351W of that era had 19 lb/hr injectors. The 460/7.5 had 24 lb/hr injectors. So any given pulsewidth to injectors would be injecting much more fuel than anticipated. It would inherently run very rich with that computer, and even in closed loop it might not be able to fully compensate.
Great points! Also check if your vehicle has two coolant sensors, some use a separate one just for the computer and another for the instrument panel. Also check for a lazy thermostat that doesn't close all the way
I've been watching you for a while and I didn't think anyone else did board level repair AND automotive repair(I've repaired a few ecu's as well)....Great work and Thank you
The oxygen sensor needs heat (400C/750F) to produce energy (voltage ). So, if the sensor doesn't have a heating element, it may take several minutes before it becomes fully operative. It's up to the ECU software to figure out when the oxygen sensor is hot (temp sensors, fixed delay, etc ) so it can start reading the sensor and bring the ECU into a closed loop. Anyway... Thanks for yet another interesting video.
Thank You for this video ! It explains why my 92 f-350, 7.5 has been increasingly running richer over the years. Currently taking apart to retrieve the ECU 👍
Really nice job! I'm not sure which is more fun to watch, you diagnosing cars or diagnosing pure electronics. Either way, you have a huge amount of knowledge! Thanks for taking us along. Now i need to recap my 94 Ranger.
I am working on my 94 E350 RV with the 460...My ecm is the RUB0 code number..But it looks exactly the same as yours with that cap bleeding al over the board.. At 4:25 you were showing the traces with the vertical trace being open. Mine has the horizontal trace from the cap to that 4 color resistor that is open.. I actually took a screen shot of this at 4:25 and with your explanation of the traces I found that open on mine. THANK YOU!!!
Didn't know you also did cars, that's cool. Guess it's much similar as radios. I do random electronic repair too, DVD players, washing machines, PC's, and vehicles. Don't have your skills though, but most often manage to resolve things. Of course, Rebelsus have helped alot.
40 years ago I had a 1981 Chevrolet Citation that ran like a top. One day I go outside to start it and it cranked and cranked and would not fire. I did all the obligatory inspection for a failure point to no avail. Then I thought about how cars were having computers in them around that time and I suspected the ECU in that model was at fault. I didn't even know where it was. After rummaging around under the hood and dash, I found it tucked away behind the glove compartment. I popped it out and brought it to my ham radio service bench and opened it up, not knowing what to expect. There, staring me in the face was a thick board trace that had popped. I checked north and south of it for any component failure, finding none. I scraped and bridged the trace, soldering a bare copper wire across the gap. Put the unit back in the car and it fired up immediately. I had ducked a bullet. My guess is if I had to take it to a dealer, it would had been an excruciatingly big ticket item to fix. A few hours on a Sunday afternoon, a piece of wire and some solder did the trick. I kept the car for another several more years of great service and gave it away to a friend who needed a ride. If I wasn't a ham, I would have gone to the cleaners. Thank you Shango for showing the potential of repairing old tech. In your case you know what you are doing. I only got lucky in my case.
I didn't know you worked on automotive electronics. I thought you did mostly radios. Anyway, very educational. Maybe you could do more automotive diagnosis and explain how it all works. Thanks!
Sometimes, to "reset" an old ECU, you need to not only depower it, but also short the power leads to it as well. This also applies to OBD II's now and then, as I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee ( 2000) where my battery was going weak and although the engine ran, it threw a low voltage code. I disconnected the ECU / PCM fuse, shorted the input power lead to it, towards the PCM, and when I reconnected and restarted it, it saw the low voltage as its new baseline and was happy until I got it home from PA to Chicago, where a new replacement battery fixed all of the associated ills
He’s also done home repair videos,repaired some lawn equipment,plumbing,and done these ecu’s before. When you say “finally” you make it sound like you’ve been watching his tv repair videos hoping he’d do something else. I really enjoy his tv and radio repair videos. I think most of his followers do or they’d be watching something else. I know I wouldn’t have sought out an Ecu repair video but watched it because I enjoy his videos and humor and admire his skill in diagnosing and repairing such a wide range of electronic items.
It must be the tire tread pattern, but at about 30 mph, the audio sure sounds like an EMD v16 or v20 when they are just coming off idle.. Love that sound.
Shango,Interesting video.I’ve seen a couple of your others on car ecu’s where the traces were really badly damaged by capacitors and you got them working. I bet you’d have a full time job if you decided to take on repairs for other people doing just these car ecu’s. I’m so glad that I’ll never have to deal with issues like these since I drive 50’s and 60’s cars. Just rebuilt the Carter carb on my 1958 Plymouth the other day after over a decade of service. Kit cost me all of $15.00 and I did the work myself. Cars have just become so needlessly overcomplicated these days. Computer controlled transmissions,computer controlled everything. Transponder keys. Computer controlled ignitions. Even though this is an older car (I think you said it’s a 92) it’s still new enough to have these kind of computer problems,although the ecu did last 32 years. It’s just a shame that even though the car is (presumably) mechanically sound that something like this took it out. I realize the manufacturers don’t plan on people keeping cars 32 years,but A repair like this would be beyond most owners ability or knowledge. They would either junk the car and go into debt buying a new one or have to take it to mechanic and bend over and grab their wallets. I’m sure they would charge at least $1,000 to replace it the ecu, Likely more. The late 80’s and 90’s cars seem to be much more mechanically reliable than the newer cars. More and more these days it seems people just stay in continuous debt leasing new cars and then dumping them every couple of years before the onset of expensive problems.
If anyone could he could. Im amazed and some of the things he’s been able to repair. California is a nightmare state to live in. Anything 1976 and later is forced to undergo bi-annual smog checks. People are starting to collect 80’s and early 90’s cars now. (Not my thing,but to each his own). And that is a huge issue because they still have to undergo an emissions test every other year. Maybe if enough of those guys get together and are vocal enough they will change the exemption year. Prior to Gov. Schwarzenegger stopping it,California had a rolling smog exemption where any vehicle 30 years old became exempt. I always wondered why he did that.
Nice work Shango, It's great seeing ECU's getting sorted out because as you say the people selling referbs are charging ridiculous prices on eBay that's if they are referbs at all. I guess ECU's suffer the same leaking cap issues everything else does.
An honest and true service tech to component level with verification! I'm surprised the DVM clock is fast enough to catch the sawtooth pattern of the O2 sensor. Kill it George!
Do I see tantalum’s ? Those are a magic smoke moment waiting to happen. Conformal coatings can be both a blessing and a curse. Old MOTORONI Moxy mobiles were open back radios, when you have a fleet of fertilizer trucks out there you wind up with corroded traces in the back of these radios. Then conformal coatings are a blessing.
Nice job man, those old EFI vehicles will start to need some love with all this caps pucking. I would add a drop of silastic on the caps. Two leg components like caps can break free (long term) because of vibrations. Well, it didnt happen here clearly LOL, but it is a common practice that does not hurt.
Great video, I'll have to like this video. My ranger is going on 30 years old, so far no issues other than a very random start/stall. Random like twice a year.
EEC-VI closed loop story: I found my 88' Ranger went into closed loop almost shockingly fast with a cold engine (60 - 70 sec at 40 - 45 F), with a new O2. Then closed loop would randomly start taking forever. The heater in my replacement Bosch O2 sensors was burning out really fast because EEC-IV have the heater wired directly into key on power, not through a relay to switch off after a certain temp. I don't think the replacement elements are up to the oddly high duty cycle. The sensor works without the heater, but is difficult to bring online, & quite lazy when cold. I found unhooking the O2 heater after reaching operating temp didn't effect the sensor reading and am planning to film making a modification to add a temp dependent relay to my EEC-IV to stop the consumption of these 02 heaters. (I rarely reach operating temp) Fun Fact: When changing altitude significantly after startup on EEC-IV management, always cycle the ignition to update the computers altitude/barometric reading. (as you stated this happens during after KOEO before KOER) I have also installed a O2 gauge in the dash in the quest to learn the throttle magic required to activate the Ultra Lean Burn feature of EEC-IV, where under the right conditions the EGR commands are be perverted to cool the otherwise disastrously lean condition the EEC can apparently adopt when the planets are in the right retrograde and the Schumann is 7.3Hz. (apparently different than a regular NOx quash dousing, and seemingly would undo all the NOx saving done in the other regular EGR mode)
My experience with older ECUs is they always run kind of funny after power has been disconnected for a bit. They seem to kind of reset themselves, then smooth out over time.
Great job as always Shango. I fear that PCM and other electrical problems like this will eventually sideline many older vehicles (roughly 1980 up) that are otherwise perfectly usable. Once the critical electrical parts and sensors become unobtainable it will be game over.
On my van, it only needed a simple recap of the engine computer to bring it back to life. Also 1992, dodge b250. Ironically enough they still used a thermal flasher instead of a relay, despite having a full engine computer..
So Shango is an auto technician by day, and does electronics in his spare time? How did I not know this? I’ve watched all his videos and have seen his other vehicle and small engine repairs and such, but didn’t make the connection that this was his day job. MMMAN, I wish I had 1/100th of these skill sets!
Great video! Looks to me as if it's a little too cold. All the fords I had ran on the "O" on normal. Also when it starts it sounds like it's trying hard to turn the starter motor. Weak battery? Bad connection? I had one do this and the voltage dropped low enough it would reset the ECM when it cranked. Also some of the heavy duty emission vehicles we had here in Alabama and Tennessee would run in open loop at idle. I'm sure that's not the case in California but I remember chasing an open/closed loop problem 30 years ago on one and finally got on the tech line to Ford and they said it was normal to fall back into open loop at idle. Go figure. Great looking van. I'd love to have it. Sounds great! Thanks!
I fixed a few ecm on gen sets industrial equipment. Replace trace with thin copper wire solder to board. CAT ecm I just bought rebuilt $2500 and $700 for dealer to flash it.. Insane. New age stuff insane expensive. You may wanna look into mid 90s CAT Cummins ECM repair. Ford and most ecm control cars trucks need to be above 160-190° f to go into closed loop.
Radiotvphononut needs to watch more of your videos and learn how to talk to people and stop being so miserable, at the end of the day we are shangos customers, if we donate we become customers. Your skills on everything you do are amazing
I see the ‘Rear Abs’ light is on. It was very familiar ‘cause my ABS is out in my ‘97 Explorer. Gotta say it seems to brake better without it (except probably on water, of course).
The ECU will probably have forgotten all of the learned values for the fuel trim, injection/ignition timing, manifold pressure etc when it was disconnected from power, probably took a while to relearn the parameters. Also the temperature of the engine will fluctuate when idling/driving so that can cause it to flip in and out of closed loop.
Nice fix Shango, I enjoy all your videos. Ive seen your other automotive related videos as well they are always interesting, you mention you work on a lot of those, can we see more videos of you work on cars please
Awesome work and video. I also have an old 1989 Chevy S10 4 banger (Iron Duke Tech4), and I think it's about time to check and recap the ECU, after more than 30 years I bet the electronics in the ECU is quite worn out.
Well something new not a TV or RADIO but at least it is still nice waited all week long for my Sango066 weekly "fix" my video addiction. Sure worth the week long wait.
Excellent Video. I'm trying to remove the ECU from my 1995 E-150 Club Van. One mounting nut no problem the second one the stud keeps spinning can't get the nut off. I looked inside above the gas pedal and I see the computer. How should I hold the stud/bolt?
I like how you've got a dyno and exhaust gas analyzer, but no scanner - the most basic tool for doing computer stuff. Not totally necessary, but it would've been nice to just look in the datastream to see if it was in closed loop or not. Or to see if any data items were out of whack. If you're doing enough of these old cars, I'd definitely recommend picking up an old scanner, like a Snap-On "brick." Also, these old computers have Keep Alive Memory (KAM), which gets erased when power is disconnected. When it's erased, it has to learn everything about the engine all over again, and just runs on default factory values until it learns. Especially important, since this old engine is probably worn out and all kinds of different from when it left the factory.
@@v12alpine Yeah, sure, and that's why I have 3 of them. It's a thing that sits in a box, you put it on a shelf when you're not using it. wtf are you talking about? O_o When you do a job often enough, it warrants having tools for that job.
There may not be data on a Ford. These years were the changeover to data. Running the five Ford test modes is as good as having data, but you have to be accustomed to the tests and know what they do and do not do. Different time and era. Also get a Dodge from these times and you'll get false data when you have a code, but you have to know that's what they do. Bad data is much worse than no data.
@@johnnytacokleinschmidt515 There's data. I've worked on plenty, and have scanners for them. As for being accustomed to how they behave... duh! You have to get accustomed to working on anything! You think Shango's not accustomed to working on old TV's?
Been decades since I used a gas analyzer, but I do remember the older vehicles would fall out of closed loop at idle and was normal. Some of the Canadian versions of fuel injection on GM stuff was non-feedback as well (mid 1980's).
I'm not yet sure where my problem lies . I am blowing the maxi fuse in the number 9 position which is a 30 anp fuse . The truck is a 1996 7.5 460 with automatic E40D . Have you any ideas you might share to spread some light on things ? I would be glad to ship it to you if you're interested. This is a 109k truck and is above average for a gasser .
I had a break like this that would only go open when the weather dropped below freezing. It was an E38 740 BMW and I nearly scrapped that damn thing for not starting on cold mornings.......in the end I pulled the ECU and checked various voltages and noticed the power would drop every time I pressed the meter probe on a certain area on the PCB.
With those old cars with big engines you need an engine oil temp of at least 60 degrees celsius and a white hot O2 sensor and cat to get a realistic result on the analyzer. After I fix an injection or ignition problem on one of those cars, I drive them hard for a few miles before connecting the gas analyzer. Or I disconnect the brake booster to get an intentional massive air leak and then I rev the snot out of it at 4.000 RPM for three to five minutes until the exhaust smells like hot converter.
Coolant temp sensor has to be warm before it will enable closed loop, that might’ve been holding it out. If it needs a new thermostat you may be getting a check engine light soon.
Shango I have a 94 F150 I went through computer hell with. These trucks don't have heated Oxygen sensors, they are actually heated by the exhaust. That's why it takes so long to go into closed loop. The only other thing you have to worry about with this era ford is Codes 211-213. That's an issue with the distributor circuit and it won't let the timing advance. After chasing it for days (recapping the computer, going through the harness, changing the pip sensor and coil, then the whole distributor) and seeing no change I changed the computer and it went away.
That’s good work, I’m always a little worried when I see long legged components in a vibrating environment, I’m not sure but maybe the caps could need some silicone to make them safe.
Is the 02 sensor heater element good? It may not be and going into open loop at idle. Any heated 02 sensor system should go closed after 30 seconds run time.
Hey Shango, sad to see EEC-IV stuff getting to the capacitor-trouble age, but do you see much EEC-V stuff with these kinds of problems yet? I've thought of cracking open the ECC-V in my car (Aussie 1997 i6 Falcon) to check the capacitors aren't soon to destroy the board traces yet, but so far the car hasn't given me any reason to suspect a dying ECU.
Closed loop wont engage until the engine reaches operating temp and the O2 needs to be screaming hot as well. Carbon fouled sensors get insulated from the exhaust heat so they get slow to come in range or fall back out of range at idle.
A lazy o2 sensor can be marginal or stuck, and work ok when heated fully and driving. The closed loop versus default strategy of the ECU should not affect the 02 sensor voltage. They only control the ECU has over an 02 sensor is supplying heater circuit voltage and VREF. The sensor oscillates all by itself when powered and in the presence of heated combustion gasses.
Can you do ECM swapping for a couple of years newer? Example using your 92 E350 install a 96 F350 w same engine size and transmission model?? great video!
True, much of the time analog is definitely preferable. Even here when watching the closed loop cycling it was easier to watch the LCD dot scale rather than the changing digits. I got a wizard for father's day after seeing shango using his. I did spring for the additional cost of the installed cap discharge protection and glad I did (but I still drain the caps anyway, but seems I always miss one). It is a handy device. Solved a dead starter cap on my well pump in nuthin' flat.
I have an '89 Dodge. Currently torn apart, son and I are doing a full resto-mod. No perceived issues with the PCM or ECU when we last drove it about 3 months ago. But given the age, I am interested in some PM. Those modules are a pain to replace. Would you be interested in doing an arbitrary re-cap on them for me? I don't know anyone in my area who provides that service. I'm not equipped with the proper tools, and doesn't seem to make economical sense to tool up just for this one job.
After not having power, the temporary memory is purged and it had to run self diagnostics before it will try to go closed loop. Often these tests on the old OBD1 take 20 minutes or more.
Early in the video you mentioned the electrolytics aren't really needed, presumably because the biggest filter is the car's battery, which is far bigger than any cap. I agree the battery should do all the smoothing the job, except that some or all of the ECU runs at 5 rather than 12 volts. Anyway if they want to maximize reliability the'd skip electrolytics entirely. I am sure in long duration NASA missions, like Voyagers 1 & 2, there are no electrolytics.
Seems like you could use a scan tool that will get live data from the EEC-IV ECUs - might be able to pick up an older Actron unit with cartridge and cable (CP9110 + CP9112), for cheap'ish on ebay these days.
Only certain later EEC-IV vehicles had live data available. I believe the trucks and vans had it in '93, T-bird and cougar in '91, Mustang never had it until it went to EEC-V / obd-2 I have an OTC Monitor 4000 that I use for anything pre-95 that works fantastic, better than the emulator that's on my Matco Determinator (OTC Genisys 5.0 clone)
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It's rare to find a mechanic that can do that kind of proper diagnosis of an eledctical component these days. Many of them are really good parts swappers. Good work!
Well, this van is too old for an OBD-II reader, so you have to use a multimeter to figure it out. Good work.
I noticed the temperature gauge was close to the "C" mark. This era of Ford computer generally won't enable adaptives (learning mode) until the engine has hit 160°F. Closed loop will work prior to that, but no long-term corrections will be committed to memory.
Additionally, the "test" ECU you used was labeled 5.8. The 5.8/351W of that era had 19 lb/hr injectors. The 460/7.5 had 24 lb/hr injectors. So any given pulsewidth to injectors would be injecting much more fuel than anticipated. It would inherently run very rich with that computer, and even in closed loop it might not be able to fully compensate.
Great points! Also check if your vehicle has two coolant sensors, some use a separate one just for the computer and another for the instrument panel. Also check for a lazy thermostat that doesn't close all the way
Good point. If the speedo wasn't working though, I'd be thinking not to trust the other instrumentation. Maybe.
Mobil Exxon BP Aramco Shell programming to empty fuel tank .
I've been watching you for a while and I didn't think anyone else did board level repair AND automotive repair(I've repaired a few ecu's as well)....Great work and Thank you
You can’t be serious. I’m a designer, component level tech, EE, PWB designer and I have a collection of Saabs that I wrench on. I’m never bored!
@@envisionelectronics heh, good luck finding Saab ecu spares
The oxygen sensor needs heat (400C/750F) to produce energy (voltage ). So, if the sensor doesn't have a heating element, it may take several minutes before it becomes fully operative. It's up to the ECU software to figure out when the oxygen sensor is hot (temp sensors, fixed delay, etc ) so it can start reading the sensor and bring the ECU into a closed loop. Anyway... Thanks for yet another interesting video.
i though the same
Thank You for this video ! It explains why my 92 f-350, 7.5 has been increasingly running richer over the years. Currently taking apart to retrieve the ECU 👍
Really nice job! I'm not sure which is more fun to watch, you diagnosing cars or diagnosing pure electronics. Either way, you have a huge amount of knowledge! Thanks for taking us along. Now i need to recap my 94 Ranger.
23:00 most of these old OBD1 systems required a minimum of a 30 minute drive cycle before it would store parameters and go into normal operation.
That van is CLEAN! I wish we had rust free old vehicles in the Midwest.
Try Maine! 5 years and your vehicle is junk! Brake lines rust out and the pedal goes to the floor!
@@W1RMD It's pretty bad in Missouri too. They use a lot of brine on the roads every Winter.
I replaced the ECM in my 93 Dodge last year. That thing had a gel I could
not get off without tearing it up. A $300 unit on my truck. Cheers! 🍻 Al
I am working on my 94 E350 RV with the 460...My ecm is the RUB0 code number..But it looks exactly the same as yours with that cap bleeding al over the board.. At 4:25 you were showing the traces with the vertical trace being open.
Mine has the horizontal trace from the cap to that 4 color resistor that is open..
I actually took a screen shot of this at 4:25 and with your explanation of the traces I found that open on mine. THANK YOU!!!
Didn't know you also did cars, that's cool. Guess it's much similar as radios. I do random electronic repair too, DVD players, washing machines, PC's, and vehicles. Don't have your skills though, but most often manage to resolve things. Of course, Rebelsus have helped alot.
I'm down with RYBELSUS®
Only in the southwest can you find such an old vehicle that hasn't rotted away, much less runs.
I'm in southeast and all my vehicles are this old or older
They don’t rot out anywhere road salt isn’t commonly used.
What about an rv
That's old? It's a 1992.
That's not old. That's just normal.
There is a 1952 Chevy pickup next door to me thats been sitting for god knows how long its still in great shape. This is in Florida.
Thermostat could keep it from closed looping too because it's not up to operating temperature.
40 years ago I had a 1981 Chevrolet Citation that ran like a top. One day I go outside to start it and it cranked and cranked and would not fire. I did all the obligatory inspection for a failure point to no avail. Then I thought about how cars were having computers in them around that time and I suspected the ECU in that model was at fault. I didn't even know where it was.
After rummaging around under the hood and dash, I found it tucked away behind the glove compartment. I popped it out and brought it to my ham radio service bench and opened it up, not knowing what to expect. There, staring me in the face was a thick board trace that had popped. I checked north and south of it for any component failure, finding none. I scraped and bridged the trace, soldering a bare copper wire across the gap. Put the unit back in the car and it fired up immediately.
I had ducked a bullet. My guess is if I had to take it to a dealer, it would had been an excruciatingly big ticket item to fix. A few hours on a Sunday afternoon, a piece of wire and some solder did the trick. I kept the car for another several more years of great service and gave it away to a friend who needed a ride. If I wasn't a ham, I would have gone to the cleaners.
Thank you Shango for showing the potential of repairing old tech. In your case you know what you are doing. I only got lucky in my case.
I didn't know you worked on automotive electronics. I thought you did mostly radios. Anyway, very educational. Maybe you could do more automotive diagnosis and explain how it all works. Thanks!
Sometimes, to "reset" an old ECU, you need to not only depower it, but also short the power leads to it as well. This also applies to OBD II's now and then, as I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee ( 2000) where my battery was going weak and although the engine ran, it threw a low voltage code. I disconnected the ECU / PCM fuse, shorted the input power lead to it, towards the PCM, and when I reconnected and restarted it, it saw the low voltage as its new baseline and was happy until I got it home from PA to Chicago, where a new replacement battery fixed all of the associated ills
Nice fix . I do board repairs too. Clusters,DVD players,bcm ,ecm etc
I like the depth you go into with it.
I ♥️ big block carbon pumps.
Yes, currently working on a 598 cubic inch carbon pump myself...
Finally, Shango posts something other a tv or record player video!
Record player?
He’s also done home repair videos,repaired some lawn equipment,plumbing,and done these ecu’s before.
When you say “finally” you make it sound like you’ve been watching his tv repair videos hoping he’d do something else.
I really enjoy his tv and radio repair videos. I think most of his followers do or they’d be watching something else.
I know I wouldn’t have sought out an Ecu repair video but watched it because I enjoy his videos and humor and admire his skill in diagnosing and repairing such a wide range of electronic items.
It must be the tire tread pattern, but at about 30 mph, the audio sure sounds like an EMD v16 or v20 when they are just coming off idle.. Love that sound.
Shango,Interesting video.I’ve seen a couple of your others on car ecu’s where the traces were really badly damaged by capacitors and you got them working. I bet you’d have a full time job if you decided to take on repairs for other people doing just these car ecu’s.
I’m so glad that I’ll never have to deal with issues like these since I drive 50’s and 60’s cars. Just rebuilt the Carter carb on my 1958 Plymouth the other day after over a decade of service. Kit cost me all of $15.00 and I did the work myself. Cars have just become so needlessly overcomplicated these days. Computer controlled transmissions,computer controlled everything. Transponder keys. Computer controlled ignitions. Even though this is an older car (I think you said it’s a 92) it’s still new enough to have these kind of computer problems,although the ecu did last 32 years. It’s just a shame that even though the car is (presumably) mechanically sound that something like this took it out. I realize the manufacturers don’t plan on people keeping cars 32 years,but A repair like this would be beyond most owners ability or knowledge. They would either junk the car and go into debt buying a new one or have to take it to mechanic and bend over and grab their wallets. I’m sure they would charge at least $1,000 to replace it the ecu, Likely more.
The late 80’s and 90’s cars seem to be much more mechanically reliable than the newer cars.
More and more these days it seems people just stay in continuous debt leasing new cars and then dumping them every couple of years before the onset of expensive problems.
I remember in his older videos he was driving an old Ford Fairmont.
Shango would be stylin’ in a Frank Sinatra edition Imperial. Maybe you can start a fund to donate one to him.
If anyone could he could. Im amazed and some of the things he’s been able to repair.
California is a nightmare state to live in. Anything 1976 and later is forced to undergo bi-annual smog checks. People are starting to collect 80’s and early 90’s cars now. (Not my thing,but to each his own). And that is a huge issue because they still have to undergo an emissions test every other year.
Maybe if enough of those guys get together and are vocal enough they will change the exemption year. Prior to Gov. Schwarzenegger stopping it,California had a rolling smog exemption where any vehicle 30 years old became exempt. I always wondered why he did that.
I like when you repair cars, i kinda like when you repair everything.
Nice van and diagnostics/repair. Great video Shango066 👍
Nice work Shango, It's great seeing ECU's getting sorted out because as you say the people selling referbs are charging ridiculous prices on eBay that's if they are referbs at all. I guess ECU's suffer the same leaking cap issues everything else does.
An honest and true service tech to component level with verification! I'm surprised the DVM clock is fast enough to catch the sawtooth pattern of the O2 sensor. Kill it George!
What a blast from the past! These OBD1 vehicles were tougher to diag. I don't remember Ford having data stream at this point.
that is an external emissions tester and dyno
My 94 Town Car has live data. I don't remember when Fomoco started it but it may have started with passenger cars first, thinking '93?..
@@elektrokinesis4150 Iwas referring to the van, and yes he's using a dyno and a 5 gas analyzer.
Do I see tantalum’s ? Those are a magic smoke moment waiting to happen. Conformal coatings can be both a blessing and a curse. Old MOTORONI Moxy mobiles were open back radios, when you have a fleet of fertilizer trucks out there you wind up with corroded traces in the back of these radios. Then conformal coatings are a blessing.
Nice job man, those old EFI vehicles will start to need some love with all this caps pucking. I would add a drop of silastic on the caps. Two leg components like caps can break free (long term) because of vibrations. Well, it didnt happen here clearly LOL, but it is a common practice that does not hurt.
Plus he could have coated his repairs with conformal coating. Can buy in nail polish bottle brush kits.
Great video, I'll have to like this video. My ranger is going on 30 years old, so far no issues other than a very random start/stall. Random like twice a year.
EEC-VI closed loop story: I found my 88' Ranger went into closed loop almost shockingly fast with a cold engine (60 - 70 sec at 40 - 45 F), with a new O2. Then closed loop would randomly start taking forever. The heater in my replacement Bosch O2 sensors was burning out really fast because EEC-IV have the heater wired directly into key on power, not through a relay to switch off after a certain temp. I don't think the replacement elements are up to the oddly high duty cycle.
The sensor works without the heater, but is difficult to bring online, & quite lazy when cold. I found unhooking the O2 heater after reaching operating temp didn't effect the sensor reading and am planning to film making a modification to add a temp dependent relay to my EEC-IV to stop the consumption of these 02 heaters. (I rarely reach operating temp)
Fun Fact: When changing altitude significantly after startup on EEC-IV management, always cycle the ignition to update the computers altitude/barometric reading. (as you stated this happens during after KOEO before KOER) I have also installed a O2 gauge in the dash in the quest to learn the throttle magic required to activate the Ultra Lean Burn feature of EEC-IV, where under the right conditions the EGR commands are be perverted to cool the otherwise disastrously lean condition the EEC can apparently adopt when the planets are in the right retrograde and the Schumann is 7.3Hz. (apparently different than a regular NOx quash dousing, and seemingly would undo all the NOx saving done in the other regular EGR mode)
Yep I know all about that. I just don't go into all those details and share them in the video because there's really so little of this stuff left
My experience with older ECUs is they always run kind of funny after power has been disconnected for a bit. They seem to kind of reset themselves, then smooth out over time.
These are interesting, Shango. Thanks.
Great job as always Shango. I fear that PCM and other electrical problems like this will eventually sideline many older vehicles (roughly 1980 up) that are otherwise perfectly usable. Once the critical electrical parts and sensors become unobtainable it will be game over.
On my van, it only needed a simple recap of the engine computer to bring it back to life. Also 1992, dodge b250. Ironically enough they still used a thermal flasher instead of a relay, despite having a full engine computer..
The delay going into closed loop may be indicative of a stuck open thermostat.
So Shango is an auto technician by day, and does electronics in his spare time? How did I not know this? I’ve watched all his videos and have seen his other vehicle and small engine repairs and such, but didn’t make the connection that this was his day job. MMMAN, I wish I had 1/100th of these skill sets!
Great video! Looks to me as if it's a little too cold. All the fords I had ran on the "O" on normal. Also when it starts it sounds like it's trying hard to turn the starter motor. Weak battery? Bad connection? I had one do this and the voltage dropped low enough it would reset the ECM when it cranked. Also some of the heavy duty emission vehicles we had here in Alabama and Tennessee would run in open loop at idle. I'm sure that's not the case in California but I remember chasing an open/closed loop problem 30 years ago on one and finally got on the tech line to Ford and they said it was normal to fall back into open loop at idle. Go figure. Great looking van. I'd love to have it. Sounds great! Thanks!
I fixed a few ecm on gen sets industrial equipment.
Replace trace with thin copper wire solder to board.
CAT ecm I just bought rebuilt $2500 and $700 for dealer to flash it..
Insane.
New age stuff insane expensive.
You may wanna look into mid 90s CAT Cummins ECM repair.
Ford and most ecm control cars trucks need to be above 160-190° f to go into closed loop.
Wonderful video on the Ford OBD1.
Extra contribution towards a multimeter we can actually read on camera 😀
Just needs a little plastic polish and it'll be good as new
@@danielknepper6884 maybe
It's missing segments too.
should use a dso but in this case you are looking at the bar graph only not the numbers
@shango066 I was half joking, but yeah you're right.
This is a very interesting video, Shango. I worked on cars in the 70's that had no computers, or O2 sensors. Lol
Radiotvphononut needs to watch more of your videos and learn how to talk to people and stop being so miserable, at the end of the day we are shangos customers, if we donate we become customers. Your skills on everything you do are amazing
Did I read that odometer right? 315,000 miles?
Great video. I'll work on tube radios but this is at another level.
I see the ‘Rear Abs’ light is on. It was very familiar ‘cause my ABS is out in my ‘97 Explorer. Gotta say it seems to brake better without it (except probably on water, of course).
The ECU will probably have forgotten all of the learned values for the fuel trim, injection/ignition timing, manifold pressure etc when it was disconnected from power, probably took a while to relearn the parameters. Also the temperature of the engine will fluctuate when idling/driving so that can cause it to flip in and out of closed loop.
Nice fix Shango, I enjoy all your videos. Ive seen your other automotive related videos as well they are always interesting, you mention you work on a lot of those, can we see more videos of you work on cars please
That was really cool to watch! Thank you for showing this great video!
I should get a spare ECU for my car and recap it with the most high quality caps possible
Dude just subbed bc you’re the man and thorough. Much appreciated. What would these numbers look like if someone were to delete the egr and air pump?
I bet he can fix a boat Radar like a Marine.......thx for the vid!
Glad my 98 Ford e250 is running pretty well
KAM. Keep alive memory is lost when older Ford ECM's lose power. Some will set a temporary fault code for it until it relearns. Gotta love OBD1.
Awesome work and video. I also have an old 1989 Chevy S10 4 banger (Iron Duke Tech4), and I think it's about time to check and recap the ECU, after more than 30 years I bet the electronics in the ECU is quite worn out.
I have a 1992 Taurus and the radio just failed due to capacitors. The engine and ECM is a 1995 though - I should probably recap it soon.
Excellent well told, You cover it perfectly
Well something new not a TV or RADIO but at least it is still nice waited all week long for my Sango066 weekly "fix" my video addiction. Sure worth the week long wait.
Well yesterday was a radio did you hear Smyrna by several level video Crush Friday just from my mama marshall?
Even when everything is fixed, modified and performance enhanced on a Ford... it's still a Ford!
Excellent Video. I'm trying to remove the ECU from my 1995 E-150 Club Van. One mounting nut no problem the second one the stud keeps spinning can't get the nut off. I looked inside above the gas pedal and I see the computer. How should I hold the stud/bolt?
I gots to have a closed loop after hearing that term 50 times in this video!
When you disconnect the ECU from power it forgets learned fuel trims. It took while to relearn new fuel trims.
I like how you've got a dyno and exhaust gas analyzer, but no scanner - the most basic tool for doing computer stuff. Not totally necessary, but it would've been nice to just look in the datastream to see if it was in closed loop or not. Or to see if any data items were out of whack. If you're doing enough of these old cars, I'd definitely recommend picking up an old scanner, like a Snap-On "brick." Also, these old computers have Keep Alive Memory (KAM), which gets erased when power is disconnected. When it's erased, it has to learn everything about the engine all over again, and just runs on default factory values until it learns. Especially important, since this old engine is probably worn out and all kinds of different from when it left the factory.
Scanners for pre-OBD2 cars are not easy to have around.
@@v12alpine Yeah, sure, and that's why I have 3 of them. It's a thing that sits in a box, you put it on a shelf when you're not using it. wtf are you talking about? O_o
When you do a job often enough, it warrants having tools for that job.
There may not be data on a Ford. These years were the changeover to data. Running the five Ford test modes is as good as having data, but you have to be accustomed to the tests and know what they do and do not do. Different time and era. Also get a Dodge from these times and you'll get false data when you have a code, but you have to know that's what they do. Bad data is much worse than no data.
@@johnnytacokleinschmidt515 There's data. I've worked on plenty, and have scanners for them. As for being accustomed to how they behave... duh! You have to get accustomed to working on anything! You think Shango's not accustomed to working on old TV's?
@@madmanmapper You're the expert! Good for you. Stay well.
Sweet job Shango
As an old Ford mechanic, those old ECU's had to relearn. Some took a couple of hours to relearn.
Been decades since I used a gas analyzer, but I do remember the older vehicles would fall out of closed loop at idle and was normal. Some of the Canadian versions of fuel injection on GM stuff was non-feedback as well (mid 1980's).
Where were you back in 2006 when the pcm in my Montero fried and I tried to fix it?
My hat is off to you sir
Great work
I'm not yet sure where my problem lies . I am blowing the maxi fuse in the number 9 position which is a 30 anp fuse . The truck is a 1996 7.5 460 with automatic E40D . Have you any ideas you might share to spread some light on things ? I would be glad to ship it to you if you're interested. This is a 109k truck and is above average for a gasser .
That cap tester is nice I want one now 😀 great video
Looks like the shop has done some upgrades since you hooked that lawnmower up to the gas analyzer
I had a break like this that would only go open when the weather dropped below freezing. It was an E38 740 BMW and I nearly scrapped that damn thing for not starting on cold mornings.......in the end I pulled the ECU and checked various voltages and noticed the power would drop every time I pressed the meter probe on a certain area on the PCB.
As a computer nerd, making computers happy can be a real BITCH.
I am amazed that the ECU module was not potted so it could not be repaired. 😮
Only Chrysler does that
With those old cars with big engines you need an engine oil temp of at least 60 degrees celsius and a white hot O2 sensor and cat to get a realistic result on the analyzer. After I fix an injection or ignition problem on one of those cars, I drive them hard for a few miles before connecting the gas analyzer. Or I disconnect the brake booster to get an intentional massive air leak and then I rev the snot out of it at 4.000 RPM for three to five minutes until the exhaust smells like hot converter.
Coolant temp sensor has to be warm before it will enable closed loop, that might’ve been holding it out. If it needs a new thermostat you may be getting a check engine light soon.
Shango I have a 94 F150 I went through computer hell with. These trucks don't have heated Oxygen sensors, they are actually heated by the exhaust. That's why it takes so long to go into closed loop. The only other thing you have to worry about with this era ford is Codes 211-213. That's an issue with the distributor circuit and it won't let the timing advance. After chasing it for days (recapping the computer, going through the harness, changing the pip sensor and coil, then the whole distributor) and seeing no change I changed the computer and it went away.
Its 4 wire heated starting in 1988
That’s good work, I’m always a little worried when I see long legged components in a vibrating environment, I’m not sure but maybe the caps could need some silicone to make them safe.
You can’t beat a old Ford econoline especially one with a big block
GoldStar Multimeter reminds my infancy . That is modern day LG. Don't know LG making any testing instruments anymore .
I think is going to close loop if engine reaches temperature. Faulty temp sensor perhaps?
When the car outlives the caps.
Is the 02 sensor heater element good? It may not be and going into open loop at idle. Any heated 02 sensor system should go closed after 30 seconds run time.
This is a Ford...this is only a Ford....this is a Ford....this is only a Ford
Hey Shango, sad to see EEC-IV stuff getting to the capacitor-trouble age, but do you see much EEC-V stuff with these kinds of problems yet?
I've thought of cracking open the ECC-V in my car (Aussie 1997 i6 Falcon) to check the capacitors aren't soon to destroy the board traces yet, but so far the car hasn't given me any reason to suspect a dying ECU.
Nice analysis and repair. Quite a few miles, if the odometer's accurate. What brand electrolytics are less prone to leaking like that?
Closed loop wont engage until the engine reaches operating temp and the O2 needs to be screaming hot as well. Carbon fouled sensors get insulated from the exhaust heat so they get slow to come in range or fall back out of range at idle.
A lazy o2 sensor can be marginal or stuck, and work ok when heated fully and driving. The closed loop versus default strategy of the ECU should not affect the 02 sensor voltage. They only control the ECU has over an 02 sensor is supplying heater circuit voltage and VREF. The sensor oscillates all by itself when powered and in the presence of heated combustion gasses.
Well that was cool. Not what I expected but exactly what I needed haha
O² Sensor! Good Catch!
The trace to the left of the one you found that was open also looked suspect.
Can you do ECM swapping for a couple of years newer? Example using your 92 E350 install a 96 F350 w same engine size and transmission model?? great video!
Interesting. I should get a Capacitor Wizard. I have a Blue ESR Meter and I hate the thing. Some things are better analog.
True, much of the time analog is definitely preferable. Even here when watching the closed loop cycling it was easier to watch the LCD dot scale rather than the changing digits. I got a wizard for father's day after seeing shango using his. I did spring for the additional cost of the installed cap discharge protection and glad I did (but I still drain the caps anyway, but seems I always miss one). It is a handy device. Solved a dead starter cap on my well pump in nuthin' flat.
I have an '89 Dodge. Currently torn apart, son and I are doing a full resto-mod. No perceived issues with the PCM or ECU when we last drove it about 3 months ago. But given the age, I am interested in some PM. Those modules are a pain to replace.
Would you be interested in doing an arbitrary re-cap on them for me? I don't know anyone in my area who provides that service. I'm not equipped with the proper tools, and doesn't seem to make economical sense to tool up just for this one job.
Cast iron big blocks take awhile to warm up for closed loop. Good you can repair the ECU
I did a bunch of oki data units in 90s Hondas.
This one time I replaced my injector with a chinese ebay one. It was a good thing i had inspection a few days later because the CO was over 15
After not having power, the temporary memory is purged and it had to run self diagnostics before it will try to go closed loop. Often these tests on the old OBD1 take 20 minutes or more.
So where do you send an ECM to have it repaired ? Or where do you buy the parts to repair them ?
Early in the video you mentioned the electrolytics aren't really needed, presumably because the biggest filter is the car's battery, which is far bigger than any cap. I agree the battery should do all the smoothing the job, except that some or all of the ECU runs at 5 rather than 12 volts. Anyway if they want to maximize reliability the'd skip electrolytics entirely. I am sure in long duration NASA missions, like Voyagers 1 & 2, there are no electrolytics.
Can a PCM this be faulty if there is no leak. No burnt? If vehicle is misfire. Transmission shift problems?
It is also likely that it wont go closed loop until a minimum engine operating temperature is read by the box
Seems like you could use a scan tool that will get live data from the EEC-IV ECUs - might be able to pick up an older Actron unit with cartridge and cable (CP9110 + CP9112), for cheap'ish on ebay these days.
Only certain later EEC-IV vehicles had live data available. I believe the trucks and vans had it in '93, T-bird and cougar in '91, Mustang never had it until it went to EEC-V / obd-2
I have an OTC Monitor 4000 that I use for anything pre-95 that works fantastic, better than the emulator that's on my Matco Determinator (OTC Genisys 5.0 clone)