Thank you!! I have been telling people that after trying several carbon fiber shafts, that i went back to wood because carbon fiber has way more deflection. And they look at me like I am crazy. It is all these novice players that don't really understand what deflection is and do not use high right or high left English in their style of play who think carbon fiber is such low deflection. i also am using a players hxt shaft and it is considerably less deflection than the carbon fiber shafts i have tried. Including jacoby black, Rhino, becue prime, and others
@@scassidy77 Thank you for your feedback Rico and btw, I know of a Pro that wants to revert back to maple but his sponsor won’t continue with them if they do. I prefer maple too 👍🏻
I've left my z2 shaft in the case for about ten years, never has warped. I do have the Jacoby black shaft now and love it. That shot comes with practice with the shaft you shoot with. Its a different shaft that you have to adjust to.
This was a Prather CF shaft in the video Richard. Compared to the Revo, it squirts the cue ball terribly. Also, this video was from long ago so I’ve had opportunity to shoot with several carbon fiber shafts since then. The least deflection I’ve found was with the Revo. This being said, there’s still no comparison to either my Purex or my Z3 low deflection maple shafts. For that reason, I won’t be using any carbon fiber shafts moving forward. I like the fact I can aim at the spot I intend to hit. Changing to something that I’d need to use Kentucky windage with, is not going to happen. Also, for no reason whatsoever, that Z3 shaft in the video eventually straightened out which we all found super crazy. We have no clue why it did but I use it to this day. Thanks for the input and I’m happy the carbon fiber works for you 👍🏻😊
I own a p3 revo 12.4 you’re probably shooting to hard the transfer of energy is greater so more touch is needed 75% of the shots with my stroke yours my be different but a fact I can leave you with is not all CF shafts are equal you get what you pay for the revo snd z3 have almost the same deflection so you should transition into it quickly good luck with whatever you choose sir
I straighten shafts by first rolling the shaft on the pool table and using a pencil, lightly mark the warp's beginning, middle and ending points. Then, using a heat gun or hair dryer, heat the area around the middle pencil mark (7 to 8 inches long). Not too hot, just very warm. I know, this is very subjective. I practiced on some old, inexpensive, warped shafts first. Now bend the shaft in the direction to correct the warp. You will need to bend the shaft much more than you think. Hold this position for a few seconds and release. It you over-straighten, and the shaft now has a warp in the opposite direction, then repeat and bend to correct. Obviously, there is an art to this. I have straightened several shafts. What have you got to lose? The warped shaft is not very useful in its current condition.
Thank you PP for that info. Btw, the crazy thing is this Shaft straightened itself out a few months after the video and has remained straight as an arrow to this day, it’s crazy 🤷🏻♂️
Carbon fiber does not automatically translate to low deflection. Just as wooden does not automatically translate to not low deflection. You can get either with either. Looks to me like you got a regular deflection carbon fiber shaft. Unfortunately a lot of people automatically equate a carbon fiber shaft with low deflection, and think the main purpose of a carbon fiber shaft is low deflection. When in reality that couldn't be further from the truth. The main attributes to a carbon fiber shaft are as follows. No worries of warpage. No effects on the shaft due to environmental conditions such as humidity. No worries about dings. Shaft consistency. Those are the main attributes of a carbon fiber shaft. Low deflection is not one of the main attributes of a carbon fiber shaft. It just so happens that there are some companies who make their carbon fiber shafts low deflection. That doesn't mean that it is low deflection because it's carbon fiber. It simply means it's a carbon fiber shaft that was built to be low deflection.
I feel you. My predator 3142 warped first then the ferrule cracked. I then ordered a $300 dollar konllen cue (with "afterburner" and "aggravating system" lmao). It destroyed my game because i was so used to predator deflection being a bit lower. Now 3 months in and i have ordered my 2nd konllen cue as a spare. I really cant complain, its a low deflection shaft with a pro taper that's not fragile and i even break with it at times when i cant be bothered to reach for my break cue. If you are new to carbon fiber shafts, moderate your hit and lengthen your bridge.
@@ronthepoolstudent IMHO, you pick a carbon shaft for the benefits it provides and stick with it. Once you get used to the shaft, the deflection difference becomes inconsequential. I never tried a Revo but starting to get mused to the Cynergy so I will stick with it. Point is; The Revo has lower deflection that Cynergy but it would not make me a better shooter. I did however try a Defy lasty week, and no way would I recommend it. It is not even close to be as smooth as the Cynergy. The other players were wondering why I don’t wear a glove, until they tried my Cynergy. Thanks for the videos Ron!
@@JerryLee.. thanks Jerry, I appreciate the input. This is an older video as you can see so today, I’ve settled in on my maple, low defection shaft cues which I have two. (both perform the same) I agree we can learn to adapt to a cue. Since this video, I’ve shot with a few carbon fibers and they are different. The Revo seems to deflect the least I’ve found. This being said, I’m used to aiming at where I need to hit with my maple shafts, I can’t bring myself to switching to let’s say the Revo where I need to aim an eighth of an inch or so off target to account for deflection/cue ball squirt. The test shown in the video is so telling. I’ve tested many cues since (both maple & CF) and it’s amazing the differences. This testing has confirmed that I’ll be sticking with what I have, a Z3 low deflection Predator shaft and an 11.8 low deflection Purex. Thanks again for what I agree is good information and thanks again for the compliment 👍🏻
Also the carbon fiber shaft transfers a lot more than wood. So you're actually shooting a lot harder than you realize with the carbon fiber shaft. That's where the biggest adjustment and benefit is with carbon fiber. You can really slow down your aim and get the same amount of action. Most carbon fiber shafts are low deflection. Now I can't say all depending on ferrule and how they are filled. Most are foam filled and different foams have different weight. Both my break shaft and playing shaft have no ferrule . But that's just where I'm at with my choice of shafts
I have a q-tech carbon fiber shaft and one of the first things I noticed when I first started playing with it was the low deflection. I had a predator multi laminated low deflection Maple shaft before that good shaft but the q-tec carbon fiber I found low deflection, and you don't have to hit near as hard it does transfer more power to the cue bowl that took some getting used to. And I don't believe all carbon fiber shafts are created equal. Loving my carbon fiber cue Tech I am getting really good cue ball control I shoot the same shot it is one of my favorites as well. No problems with my carbon fiber making that shot.
No matter how great the quality control is, there will always be lemons. Most of the folks at my pool hall play with Predator gear. It's good stuff. For comparison: I have a McDermott GCore that has lived in the trunk of my car for YEARS and is still straight as a string!
The crazy thing Michael, this Z3 shaft straightened on its own about six months after this video. The video is an older vid and I’ve since been shooting with this cue.
I just recently received my SVB Ghost Edition with Cynergy 15k shaft. To me, the main benefit is the silkiness of the cue. With a glove, can't really feel it going through the bridge. My stock Mezz EC-9 is wonderful and nearly identical in weight and balance to the SVB, but the carbon fiber shaft makes them feel so different. CF is just so silky smooth, absolutely no comparison to wood. Looking forward to trying your deflection test, but at this point, I am realizing my Mezz and Meucci's will be in the rack if I don't go CF. This is my 1st CF, I can't compare to other top CF, but really happy so far. My issue now, what CF shaft for the United Mezz Joint. Ignites are hard to find available and so dang expensive, any suggestions from the community always welcome. Thanks for the great video
@@boscomoroz326 thank you for sharing Bosco and please update as to what you find with the test. Btw, I used to shoot with a glove for its smoothness but I’ve shot without for over a year because I couldn’t feel the cue 🤷🏻♂️😊 You’re right that CF is silky smooth 👍🏻
Hot steam can help to cure warped shafts. Then the wood fibers become softer and can be straightened. The whole thing then has to dry again in the correct shape during fixation.
Thank you Lanternman. This is what our local cue maker mentioned as well. Btw, this cue magically straightened by itself a couple months after this video. It’s my cue today 🤷🏻♂️
I’m on the verge of buying a carbon fiber shaft. My understanding is that I should expect less deflection than with my OB after market shaft. I have a good Joss cue that I bought new in 86’. If I shoot pretty firmly in a similar setup as you I get damn near a full ball width of deflection with two tips of inside english on about a 7’ shot. I actually like to practice that shot as it gives me a lot of comfort on aim and how I’m stroking the shot on any given day.
Hi Larry and thank you for your input. This video was from awhile back and since then, I’ve had lots of exposure to carbon fiber shafts. I have found the Jacoby 11.8, pro taper, carbon fifer shaft, to be the lowest deflection. Compared to my Predator, 11.8 Z3 maple shaft, I really see no difference. Btw, I’m not advocating you get the Jacoby, but you may want to try several before pulling the trigger. No matter which shaft you opt for, realize that it may take some time to learn its characteristics. Hope that helps and thanks again👍🏻 PS, the CF in this video is a Prather and it causes a lot of squirt.
Also if you place your z shaft on your rack flexing opposite of where it bowed it's possible to straighten it back out. But if you want to try that I'd suggest you check it's roll after 4 hours and when it's finally straight. Barnishing with cue wax and leather
The kind of racks I have are with a 1” diameter hole at the top restraint and a depression for the rubber bumper at the bottom…the cues rest in a loose upright position, there are no detents.
Storing a cue on a wall rack is OK but you need to occasionally rotate the cue 180 degrees or even 90 degrees in steps until it is rotated finally a total of 360 degrees. .... than repeat. Also put on an inside wall.... not outside wall. Many cue manufacturers mention this is their instructions. I have some cues I have owned for 60 years and no warping.... I even have one cue I hand made when I was in high school and it is dead straight. I also have one carbon fiber cue...McDermott Defy V 2 that I have now had for one year. I love it and the feel is close to my other LD McDermotts. To me the big advantage of the CF cues is consistency, maintenance and care isn't an issue. Maybe it is me but I always made a point of holding my wood cue in exactly the same rotation to avoid differences in stiffness with the grain or against it. Much of a cue choice is psychological.... if you think it is better or worse....it will be.
Thank you RK, I appreciate the information, all good to know. As for the warpage, six months after this video, the shaft miraculously straightened out on its own. It’s been going on two years now and it’s still arrow straight. Also, I store it in the same rack as before,,,crazy I know 🤷🏻♂️ Thanks again 👍🏻
Thanks Ron. Opposite of what I expected. I switched to a new carbon fiber cue for reduced deflection and learning the performance differences vs my trusty ol solid wood cue…
That carbon fiber shaft I had adapted to fit my Predator butt, it was not good. This being said, I would think any CF upgrade would require adjusting to its deflection.
@@ronthepoolstudent I picked up a revo a couple months ago and it's required a substantial adjustment in aiming. I think there is a lot of truth to his comment about power, especially if you've been shootin w/ wood for decades. I also didn't like the victory tip so we'll see how it shoots after I have that replaced. sometimes it actually feels like my mezz sigma has less deflection. Maybe it's just more intuitive because I've had decades of practice w/ wood and I'm hitting excessively hard w/ the REVO 🤷♂️. But many great players have done the testing and argue it's about as low deflection as it gets so I've gotta trust them on that. I also definitely don't think you should judge carbon shafts based off a knockoff.
@@arbitraryalias9825 I agree AA. The carbon fiber in my video is a Prather. It squirts the cue ball a lot as seen in the video. Also, this was published long ago. Today, I have a better understanding of carbon fiber cues. I have learned for instance, the Revo is one of the best in terms of low deflection. One more thing; I have grown into my Z3 low deflection maple shaft. I won’t be converting for that reason. Here’s something that may interest some. I know of a current touring pro that wishes he could go back to his maple shaft but his sponsor forbids it. Thanks for your input AA 👍🏻
Carbon fiber shafts very wildly in deflection just as wood shafts do. The lowest deflection shafts have maybe 1/2 inch on 8 feet soft hit, worst can be over 3 inches. You have to calibrate your aiming based on the deflection and swerve of each shaft and you have to know how to adjust. This is important when selecting a shaft. Many old timers that shoot with normal high deflection shafts and use feel based aiming cannot handle deflection changes of moving shaft to shaft. All players should understand the deflection point of each shaft they use. The deflection point is the point where if the bridge is placed that simple back hand English compensates for deflection at a specific hit speed. Revo 19.5 inches, z 13 inches, 314 11 inches, Duffrin bar cue 6 inches. if you use the corresponding bridge length it will automatically correct your stroke flaws for deflection for that cue and speed. Have fun. Just a note from an instructor and engineer working on mastering pool.
I think the carbon fiber shafts, if not done correctly, like the knock offs can easily be with a higher deflection as it is very hard and stiff.. I play with a Revo 12.4 and it has a very low deflection.. almost the same deflection as a predator zshaft.. maybe a cuetec or a revo will suit you better. 😁
As an old timer you mentioned, I call total BS on not being able to move between cues and shafts. 1st hour on new CF SVB Ghost Edition was pretty horrible getting used to the feel of CF, but then table run after table run. I purely aim by feel or more accurately, i just see the angles appear and shoot. I switched back to Mezz EC9, ran table, moved to 1990s Meucci, ran table, swapped to 2 year old Meucci with The Pro, ran table. Back to SVB Ghost CF, same. My problem is I like the silky smooth feel of CF way more than any wood shaft I have ever played. Feels smoother without a glove than wood with a glove. Of course, Meucci, Mezz, and Cuetec all have different joints...bummer. Play on a 1974 Murrey table with Simonis 860. Just a beautiful table; it rolls dead pure and is stupid fast. If I change my bridge forward or back, I must also re-adjust stance and rear hand as well, One change definitely affects everything else.
I went from a Z2 11.8mm 29" to a Revo 12.4mm 30" and I they shot the exact same for me as far as spin and squirt. I was worried about a difference and maybe I got lucky but I love the Revo. I've never been a fan of their tips and I swapped it out same day I think. Using a hard H UltraSkin.
Thank you a Stanford for the info. After my experience with the Prather carbon fiber in the video, I grew gun shy to spend the money. If I were to opt for one in the future, I’d get the Revo however. Thanks again 👍🏻
@@ronthepoolstudent hi, I went from a Mcdermott i3 shaft (11.75mm) to the 12,4mm revo and also find it similar and easy to get used to regarding deflection. The stock victory soft tip suited me fine. I was playing with a kamui soft on my old shaft. Yet both shafts play differently than other wooden shafts that I have tryed....
@@georgemathiellis5486 thanks for the input George, good info to know. Since this video, I have only shot maybe three shots with a friend’s Revo. I did not give it enough practice to determine it’s true difference to my low deflection maple. I did notice it being much better than the Prather CF in my video however. At this point, I’ve got to stick with my two 11.8 low deflection cues. I have thousands of hours shooting well with them so don’t want to start over. I do like the look of the black in black with CF but I’m pretty set in my ways at this point. One more thing. Another good player told me just last week he’s been shooting with a Revo and can’t really tell the difference from it to his low deflection maple. I think I would need to spend the bigger money to get the better performance shaft to satisfy my expectations if I were to take the plunge. Thanks again George 👍🏻
@@ronthepoolstudent I selected the i3 about 13 years ago because I was pretty bad at draw shots. It helped me improve and in a good day I could play very well. The problem was that in a bad day or when under pressure I was putting unwanted spin on the cue ball and I was missing long balls. The thicker revo helped me aiming and making more of those shots without having to adjust my cueing much. I can tell you that the 12,9 revo is VERY different in the way it plays compared to the 12.4. Players who don't play with much side spin love the 12.9 while others like me who prefer low speeds and lots of spin cannot make a long ball with it.....
@@georgemathiellis5486 thanks for that info George. I too like to use spin with finesse. I have better accuracy when I don’t bang or force shots. My thin 11.8 shafts allow for great spin action but I agree they can mess us up on those longish shots when spin is required. When I’m in dead stroke, I’m amazed that I can deliver the cue ball with any type spin to those long shots. It’s a crazy game and finding consistency is the battle 🤷🏻♂️👍🏻
I had the same issue with a 314-3 shaft. It bowed in the first 3 weeks. They replaced free because it was within 30 days. I got lucky. Actually, I found out that everyone has 30 days to try all new Predator products and can return them within 30 days at no charge if not satisfied. Thats AWESOME. Unless your cue bows in more than 30 days. Ron should talk to a manager at Predator. Ill bet they will go to bat for him eventually.
I was shocked actually since I explained I use their products and brag their cues up on my channel all the time. I also told them I had just purchased their new AirRush jump cue and loved it. I still got a stone cold no that there was just a 30 day only warranty. Because of this, I’m now reluctant to purchase another Z3 replacement shaft from them. I was going to purchase another Z3 with the pro taper as the one the that had warped had a conical taper. This all being said, my Purex pro taper shaft is amazing so I’m going to look into converting another Purex shaft so it will fit the Predator butt since I no longer have a shaft for it 🤷🏻♂️
The only real adjustments you have when making a carbon shaft is where you put the foam fill, how much foam fill in each spot, the taper, the material used for the joint and the vault plate/tip. With a carbon fiber it generates or transfers twice as much force on impact as a wood shaft does as the wood shaft has some give and cushion where carbon is solid and ridged. The smo shaft and the whyte carbon shafts I’ve heard rave things about there deflection but have yet to try one. I shoot with a Jacoby black feels as good in the bare hand as a predator wood shaft and I haven’t had much adjusting at all for shots like that maybe allowing for 1/32 of a offset on the aim but I also shoot that shot at 60-65% of what I would with a wood shaft giving it time to draw the cue all back. I have noticed with the carbon shafts if you use a center ball shot line up and back hand adjusted English you don’t worry about the English as all on extreme English shots.
Thank you Billybob. I actually have shot with a Jacoby 11.8 pro taper shaft and was surprised at how the deflection was very close to my Predator Z3 maple. I would have bought one at the time had they been in stock. After sleeping on it however, I decided to stay with the maple. This video is from a long time ago. Today, I still shoot with an 11.8 Z3 and I’m very very happy. I’ve been shooting with it for almost three years which is almost as long as I’ve been playing. I know it so well, I’ll be staying with it till I’m no longer able to play the game. Thanks again for your input, I appreciate it. Btw, the carbon fiber in the video is a Prather.
Hey, Ron, you posted this 2 years ago. I'd love to hear the conclusion you've come to. The reason I ask is because I want to switch to CF from my Cuetec Avid Chroma. I'm looking at the Sport 2 w/ revo shaft, but now you've scared me. Thoughts?
@@BooksNGuns Thank you Ricardo, my best advice is to pick your poison and stick with it. I have always shot with maple and now shoot very well as I know my cue. I have shot with carbon fiber that my friends have, but they are so different to what I’m used to. For this reason, I’m staying with my maple Z3 shaft. Lastly, I’m not saying not to go with carbon fiber, I’m only saying to pick one and stay with it and not jump back and forth. Hope that helps 👍🏻
"less deflection" is still deflection and you will have to learn to adapt for it. Also make no mistake , there are time when "more deflection" can be good.
I can tell you I own, 3 carbon shaft, 2 BeCue and 1 Cuetec. The 2 becue has vey low deflection, where my Cuetec, a little more deflection. There some adjustment period, but one you understand to compensate. You will be fine.
Yes Veson, it’s all about becoming accustomed to which ever cue you shoot with like you said. This video was from awhile ago and I’ve learned a lot about CF since then. Thanks for your comment 👍🏻
Very old video Kiko and yes, I now am fully aware that carbon fiber shafts are not created equal. Also, my Z3 maple shaft mysteriously straightened (on its own) after several months. All this being said, I’m a committed maple shaft guy. The lowest deflection carbon fiber, (that I’ve heard of) is the Revo according to my strong player friends. I’m sure there are others, but these guys in my area shoot with that shaft. Even then, there is some deflection. You cannot over hit the shot and the bridge length needs to be longer I’ve been told. The Revo squirts the cue ball over my low deflection 11.8 Z3 maple shaft. Thanks for your input and thank you for watching K 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Ron, I've owned 2 pure x shafts and although they did play great with low deflection the 11.75 mm certainly gets you more side spin than a 12.5 and so on so forth. Thw ferrules are also different. Is it my imagination or with thw carbon fiber tyw cueball is rotating forward alot more almost high cue in a sense . It doesn't look like you get on the cueball edge alot and maybe it's spinning which I am sure it is differently. My 2 pure x both warped in maybe 3 months and I only played one pocket with them . My much fatter 13.1 joss cue barely takes at English but creates a ton of deflection also grrrrrrr . How long have you had your pure x hxt shaft , mine delivered a nice straight low deflection and soft hit but the newer so called small diameter wood shafts just seem to warp. I've seen a 11.75 Kitana last less than 2 years also . But I am positive smaller diameter equals more spin rate. Watch your video in slow motion and tell me if the carbon fiber rolls the ball more vertically end over end
Thank you Riff for your input and question. This video is quite old but since then, my Purex is still laser straight. (no longer shoot with it though) Also, my Z3 shaft miraculously straightened itself out on its own. And as far as carbon fiber is concerned. I do not like them at all. Also, I’m not sure if more spin was occurring with the cheap Prather CF shaft, but it’s possible even though I struck the cue ball the same 🤷🏻♂️ Lastly; one of my strong sparring partners shoots with an 11.8, Pro taper, CF Jacoby, I find that shaft to play similar to my maple Z3 shaft. Thanks again 👍🏻
I bigger tip you have to apply more English. This is because even with the same tip placement. The core of the tip is hitting a different spot on the curb ball. In actuality only about 2mm max of your tip is ever making contact with the cue ball at one time. Tip being shaped to a dime radius helps with this regardless the size of the shaft but there will always be a different. I have went to carbon fiber but the size of the shaft is the same as I've always played it with. Best thing about carbon fiber is that even the 10.5 mm shafts play just as stiff as be the 13mm shafts. So you can really just get what you prefer to play with. Even deflection between the sizes is pretty close. But weight really just affect how a cue plays as well. I've always preferred 17.5 oz cues. With a forward balance.
I personally don't have a ferrule. Just a 1/16 of a inch white sight plate from kamikaze. This keeps my reflection low on my carbon fiber shaft. My break shaft has no ferrule. Just a bulletin proof one peace. It jumps, and breaks very well with very low deflection
I'm not real careful like you with my equipment and I have NEVER had a quality shaft warp like that. To see the difference I would shoot that shot alternating from one cue to the other. Then if I couldn't tell what was going on I would shoot with the carbon fiber shaft until I could consistently make the one ball. Then go back and shoot with the maple shaft three or four times. Assuming the tips are equal Kamui Black soft right? I shoot with HOW mediums but used to shoot with Kamui's. Shafts going from warm temps to cold temps over time could cause warpage possibly or maybe the ferrule has gone cock eyed on you? I've got 30 some odd shafts going back to the mid 80's and none of them are warped. Mostly McDermott shafts. I shoot a lot with a McDermott "i3" 11.8mm maple shaft but have a NEW Defy 2.0 carbon fiber 12mm shaft now. I'll try this shot with them!
That was a Kamui soft back then John. Today, I use a Kamui med. Also, that Z3 shaft straightened itself out on its own some how. I’ve been using it ever since.
Also you carbon fiber shaft is actually lower deflection. But the reality is the term low deflection or when one shaft is lower deflection. It mean longer bridge length because they have a longer natural pivot point. Based on how you was missing I'd say your bridge point needs to be about 3 or 4 inches longer
can't reccomend the viking siege enough it has a really soft hit and low deflection but it is pretty expensive, as for the shaft you got it is probably a standard deflection shaft rather than low deflection
I have to agree with George. Although I do not have the Viking Siege, I do have the Valcore low- deflection shaft and I feel it is dead on. Before I purchased the Viking, I tested Predator and Mizz cues. For the price and feel, the Viking is a much better cue for me and plus I got the exact look I was looking for. Compared to my old regular shaft. The low-deflection is way BETTER. I have my eyes on the Siege as well.
I just learn how to spin the ball with my Z shaft carbon fiber is hit where it says hit done, I use to spin rail shots all day now just point and shoot, bit of readjust on line took me 3 weeks. pretty close now?
I’m thinking about buying a low deflection shaft for my Joss . Do I purchase a Katana low deflection shaft or would I be better off with a carbon fiber shaft?
Thank you for your question Stephen. Suggesting a shaft to another player is not easy. It’s really up to you, the player. Personally, I like a thin shaft (11.8 mm), low deflection cue, that is 18 ounces. Also; I do not know anything about a Katana so I’m not one to give advice there. This said, experiment with several cues until you find one that feels best to you. Once you find this cue (carbon fiber or wood), stick with it till you totally learn its characteristics. This takes time depending on your schedule of course. Lastly, you don’t have to spend lots of money on a cue in order to play consistently well. Here’s a more recent video I just published, hope this helps. See link below: A Great Pool cue for the money ruclips.net/video/GZ7MXpJYpoM/видео.html
I use a low def mcdermot its lifetime guareenteed ive tested it my shaft broke after a year where it screws in a in up!! Did you register your shaft cause you have to to get warranty. My cue 18.6 and i use it to do cut back shots when a bank is not open and i practice it as well. Ive been playing apa for 15 years Maybe : i see the cue ball jump left on instant contact id have to guess its the no low deflect and maybe try flattening your tip on the carbon fiber
@@ronthepoolstudent wow i thought it was lifetime for them as well i sent mine to mcdermott and they gave me a brand new shaft it did cost me for the shipping with insurance added like $50. Im in cali i forget where they were
There are different "levels" of carbon shafts. Not all are low deflection. It looks like the cf shaft you bought is a bit on the cheap side. Now, don't get me wrong, cheap doesn't always mean bad, but I believe a good quality Predator CF shaft would probably perform better. By the way, I play a lot of pool in the Philippines. A few years ago I decided to buy a stick here just to have my own because I did not bring my own from America. I bought a 2500 peso (about $50 at the time) stick. It is not a carbon fiber shaft, but made to look like one. Even though it is a VERY cheap stick the deflection of this stick is amazingly low. Almost hard to believe low. So sometimes cheap is just fine. I find it amusing so many guys think buying an expensive stick the answer to their bad game. If you are a bad player with a cheap stick, you are going to be a bad player with an expensive stick. Period. I see Filipinos, on a regular basis, with 1250 peso ($25) sticks just destroy foreigners here with their $800 to $1250 sticks. And I am not talking about high-end Filipino players here (and there are a lot of those), but just the average guy that walks into a bar and/or pool hall. Focus on fundamentals of alignment, stroke, learning center ball play (Tor Lowry teaches this as good as anyone), and learning the basic shots of pool. Most pool shots are actually only four or five different types of shots.
Thank you James, I 100% agree. Btw, this video was long ago in my 587 days since beginning to learn this game. Since then, I’ve discovered a lot about these cues. Also, I have made huge strides in my own game and I have dedicated myself to iron out sound fundamentals and am working to ingrain certain aspects of them still today. (full stroke pause for instance) With these sound fundamentals, I can use any of my cues (I have several) and shoot 600 Pool. Equipment is important but $$$s don’t make all equipment good as you’ve stated. This is a true statement, It’s not about the high dollar tool, it’s about who’s operating it. Thanks again for you comment and thank you for taking the time to watch my video. 👍🏻
@@brandoncharles4781 more than you might think. Of course most foreigners are not traveling with $1000 cues, but there are numerous here that I have seen - and they all get their asses kicked.
Well as the wall mount holds it at the top and bottom it has a tendency to push bot parts of the cue away from the wall where it connects to the cue. On 13 mm shafts the pressure isn't enough to bow the unless exposed to heat or cold of mosture at the same time. But your z shaft is very flexible. This is where the issue comes from
What kind of shaft is the carbon fiber? I have a z3 11.8mm and I bought a cynergy 11.8mm....the cynergy has less deflection then the z3. By the way I shaved my z3 to a pro taper and it always stays in my trunk (hot and cold) hasn't warped yet, been 2 years. I got too used to my cynergy can never go back to wood
The Carbon fiber was a Prather. As for the Z3, I believe this one is defective. Also, another one of my subscribers ordered a Z3 and it too warped right away. Luckily for him, after a battle with Predator and because he bought direct from them, they did an exchange. Predator told me I had to buy from them directly and not through Seybert’s or any other supplier in order to have only a 30 day exchange warranty.
I have a palmer ive had 15 yrs straight as a arrow i fixed bows by reversing and flexing cue on table( just no how to find wobble before you try) many times for others just dont flex real hard and do it slowly also bathroom shower and steam it for 10 to 15 mins and flex it is better
Do you have hudl, onform or coaches eye. Basically a program you can put lines on your video? The 1 ounce in the cue can make a difference. to me it looked like the PureX deflect about the same but swerves back. The Predator deflects but has no swerve. To me that would suggest with the PureX you hit down on the ball a little. Why? fall in the who knows. Might be a reaction to the weight distribution in the cues. For haha s measure the balance point of each cue from the butt. See which cue is more forward weighted.
The tip is being replace with a phenolic so the cue will be used solely for breaking in the future. I’ve had three 600+ players I know shoot with the cue and they all agree the shaft isn’t right. 🤷🏻♂️
How far off center are you aiming ? Probably to far, that’s why you get all that deflection. It should give you same amount of spin closer to center ball than your wood shaft.
Good to know, thanks. Btw, this is an older video when I was very new to the game. Since then, I’ve shot with a Jacoby, 11.8, low deflection pro-taper. That cue shoots exactly like my Z3 low D maple shaft. The CF in the video is a Prather too .
If you have shot a particular shot with your wooden cue adjusted to its own deflection rate then you can't shoot with another cue carbon fiber or not using the same stroke. The only way the shot will get pocketed is if the cue has a deflection rate of the original cue you have been shooting with. Low deflection doesn't mean NO DEFLECTION. IF you are familiar with bhe or fhe the or pe. These are used alone or in combination together to negate the squirt and swerve of any cue a player uses. Even if you may not be familiar with this. Still adjustments a player makes to pocket balls threw trail and error. Since every deflection rate for cues varies by tenths hundredths or even a whole inch or so. Shooting the cue ball the same way isn't going to give you an accurate depiction of the deflection measures that you are getting. Only shooting absolutely pure to insure that no previous adjustments are made. Because wooden cues almost always have a greater deflection range than a carbon fiber shaft the adjustments for the wooden shafts will make the carbon fiber shafts look like the carbon fiber shafts are higher deflection than they really are. You just gave up the prime example of this in this video. Please note that I'm definitely not trying to offend you or anyone else. Simply trying to give you the answer to your question for the carbon fiber shaft performance. Most players who shoot over a long-term use of their products make the adjustments for their products over time. Most importantly it usually does not happen intentionally. Meaning receive the shafts and measure the deflection and then make the adjustments no. But usually threw continuous use of their cues and learning subconsciously as they go. Not saying that is the wrong or right. The best thing about it is that you are in my opinion are a great person as it relates to the game of pool. Keep up the great work and videos.
Thanks Mac and sorry I didn’t see your comment until now as some comments don’t make it to the video’s comment section. (a RUclips flaw) Thanks for articulating what’s going on here M. Since this video, I’ve grown a lot as a player with only 506 days of real play. I totally agree with what you’ve said here. Every cue has to be figured out by it’s shooter. I’m so used to my Z3 Predator at this point there’s no way I would switch. When I have used one of my other cues, the change is apparent. Thanks for watching my video and thank you for your input on this Mac 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
You would have been better off storing the cue in a hard case standing up then the wall. Wall get too much variation in humidity, heat and sunlight. Get a extra set of joint protectors for your shaft drill a hole through the top and add a rope loop then tape up the tip section with electric tape and add a rope loop in the tape. Hang the shaft in a closet on a floor with the most stable temperature and humidity with the joint side up tip pointing down and hang a small weight from the tip loop with a 2.5 to 5oz weight(lady barbel) for 1 to 2 months. That will probably do the trick. I fixed a very warped shaft this way to be dead straight. Since it a laminated shaft you cannot add any water to it. It will cause de-lamination. Many forget that wood is still alive and can be influenced by sun light like a plant to the light.
Sounds like a good idea Johnny. Btw, my racks are on my south wall where sunlight does not hit this area. Also, the racks have l” diameter holes at the top so the shafts remain loose without tension. I will try your rig idea with weight for sure. I love the Z3 and shot again with it for 5 hours today even though it’s warped. The video I just posted was from today btw. Note: I have marked the cue so I can always orient it in the right position so that the bow is sloping upward as I look down the cue at address.
@@murfrirhke4557 I miss spoke what I mean is it based on living material(bio cellular mass) which can be influence by water, humidity and solar heat radiation. Put your shaft in water and see what happens. Put your shaft in high heat as well. All cells have a certain level of water in them unless you cook it out like kiel wood but even then it can absorb some water from contact or the air but less than regular wood.
I have ten shooting cues of various diameters E and have had no difficulty in spinning the shot in with the 11.8 as well as my 13 mm shaft cue. Both deliver the cue ball accurately. This is why I was very surprised with the carbon fiber’s deflection. It’s puzzling for sure.
its sad to think that now that predator has inflated their prices to way past over priced that their quality control would go down. ive got two of their wood shafts about 10 years old that are wonderful. i got a chance to play with one of their revo shafts and i didnt really care for it. the only carbon shaft ive liked so far is a Pechauer.
It’s been a long time since this video Kelley and I’ve learned a lot about carbon fiber since then. I’ve been able to shoot with many brands and found the Jacoby 11.8, pro taper, carbon fiber shaft to be identical to the Predator Z3 Maple. I will say this; I have not tried the Pechauer however. Thanks for letting me know 👍🏻
not sure about the brand of carbon fibre shaft (they don't all perform the same) but your test is flawed. You are hitting the shot harder with the carbon shaft which is doing two things, 1. more deflection of course. Aim at the same spot with your wood shaft and hit progressively harder shots and you will see the ball get further and further from the object ball. 2. because of the slow speed you hit the ball with the wood shaft you're giving the spin a chance to catch and curve the cue ball back toward the object ball the combination of the initial deflection and subsequent swerve back toward the shot line makes it look like the wood shaft is "deflecting" less. That is not to say that the carbon shaft you're using is a lower deflection shaft (again, they don't all perform the same). There are many videos out there with people testing deflection showing the various carbon and wood shafts and their performance in this category.
Thank you JK. This is an old video btw. Since then, I’ve learned a ton and you’re correct. Thanks for your input bud 👍🏻 PS, this is a Prather CF shaft.
Good question Jonny, I purchased and had the shaft set up by a cue maker but never asked any real questions. I’m going to follow up with him this Wednesday and I’ll let you know.
@@ronthepoolstudent I looked up hex they only cost $95 unfinished. Maybe it's a subpar carbon fiber shaft compared to cuetec predator etc..I ordered a cynergy shaft with a joint to match my McDermott butt
😂🔥👍🏻 good one 😉 Check this out, six months after this video was published, the shaft all of the sudden was straight. True story 🤷🏻♂️ I have no clue why.
I’m willing to bet that is not a quality CF shaft. I had guys that hate low deflection shafts try my Cuetec Cynergy shaft played 2 racks and had one the next week😊
I have a Cuetec Cenergy Breach break cue Robert and love it 👍🏻 Btw, this was a 12.5 Prather CF shaft in the video. This is an old video, I’ve since learned a lot about CF shafts. My favorite is an 11.8 Jacoby Pro taper.
Is it just me when I say the carbon fiber is doing exactly what it's supposed to? You may not be aware of it but you're accounting for the deflection in your standard cue when you aim. It's subconscious for you at this point. When switching to the carbon fiber you're accounting the same way which is too much since the carbon fiber will squirt less. Agree?
Thank you HereAfter for the comment. Since this video, I’ve improved as a player a lot. I’m shooting pretty much 600 Pool these days so I have a better understanding of cue shaft Performance. I have two cues that perform pretty much identical. One is the Purex 11.8 pro taper low deflection, the second is my Z3 shaft Predator which is also an 11.8 w/low deflection but with a conical taper. I can aim directly at the spot as seen with the shot in this video. There may be some squirt but it’s minute with these cues. The spin I’m applying will give some swerve which negates any degree of squirt which then brings the cue ball right back to the spot where I’m aiming. I’ve shot with other carbon fiber shaft cues and they’ve all squirted the cue ball further than the cues I’ve just described. For this reason, I’ve decided to stay with the maple shaft 11.8 low deflection equipment. I have given carbon fiber a chance but don’t want to go backward from what I’m used to at this point. Hope that explains what it is that I have found with these comparisons. Thanks again 👍🏻
@@ronthepoolstudent Interesting. I'm just doing a review on a carbon fiber shaft and comparing it to my Huebler standard shaft. The deflection is noticeably less in the carbon fiber which is to be expected. Of course my Huebler shaft is standard and has no low deflection properties. ✌️
@@HereAfterBilliards if you run across a Predator Z3 maple, give it a try. Please let me know HereAfter what you find also if you would. I’d be interested to hear.
Correct David and thanks for that input as it will be helpful to those that read this. Btw, this video was from a long time ago, I’ve learned a ton since then 👍🏻
Well.. I donno.... I like the Carbon because of..... it's doesn't drag while stroking compared to the wood. I play without a glove. Carbon isn't finniky about dings.. where I have to be careful with my wood shafts. I have cuetec truewood cues, which were the first for me. I bought a cuetec shaft for my schon's I have 5 ... I bought 1 for all my 3/8 x10 cues..OB & a few of the Meucci's. I would like to have a shaft for my other Meucci's. 5/16 x 18? and I had bought 1 for my Predator Radial joint.. I also bought a Predator and had to option to up grade to a Revo with white vaultplate thing instead of black. Now I struggled with the Carbon... no matter which that I was using... and it took a while to learn it. And the Cuetec and Predator Carbons paly slightly different. Or my opinion they do. But bottom line... I like the Carbon better. I can always go back to my wood cues.... but I'm gonna stick with whacking with the carbon for now.
@@willreasoner4384 Yes Will, it’s a matter of preference. For me, I have very dry hands so a glove isn’t necessary. This said, I actually did use a glove early on. In time, I ditched it as there was no need. What I then discovered was a better feel for the shot which I liked. Today, I enjoy playing with a Z3, 11.8 maple, as it produces great finesse power through a higher spin rate compared to other cues I own. (11) My bottom line is that I cut my teeth on the smaller diameter shaft and have learned it’s performance well. I will add however, I have a sparring partner that shoots with a Jacoby, 11.8 Pro taper carbon shaft that I find almost identical to the performance of my Z3. His and mine have the same joint so I’ve shot with it and was quite surprised. I have also shot with the Revo and a couple others brands. These had quite a bit more deflection than the Jacoby. So once again, it’s really all a matter of preference once we reach a certain level. Sticking with which ever shaft is key as it takes time to learn the a cue’s characteristics 👍🏻
No clue really Valter. I’ve never heard of one that warped either 🤔 Btw, I only use CF for jumping and breaking now. AirRush jump cue and the Cuetec Synergy Breach break cue. Both have stayed arrow straight to date.
Thanks John, I’m settled in with a cue now. Also, its a low deflection maple w/med Kamui tip. It works great. This video was from long ago where I have maybe 2,000 hours of play since then. Thanks though 👍🏻
Deflection is a bending of the shaft, not the path of the ball. Squirt is what you are looking at and is caused by the shaft deflecting less and forcing the cue ball off your aim line. This is completely normal. A wood shaft has more deflection and less squirt. So when switching from wood to carbon fiber, you need to retrain your aim to compensate for the change in deflection and squirt.
@@ronthepoolstudent Find a player up there that uses one and try it out. Trust me on this one. U won't have to buy another cue ever again and it won't ding
I've tried a Revo 12.4 I think it was. It's just another another stick in my opinion. In fact, it's hard to find a bad CF stick if you spend at least $300 for one. You have to really look hard to find a bad cue these days. JFlowers, Rhino, Cuetec, Predator, Viking...all the same to me. You can either spend $300 or $3000, but they are all the same with a few different characteristics. If you're 600 fargo rating with one stick, you be almost the same rating with another stick.
Ron, I believe your attempt at showing squirt is erroneous. Suggest you go to Dr, Dave and see his demo on how detect how much stiff carbon shafts throw an object ball as opposed to a more limber wooden shaft. Then, consider the carbon shafts reaction to scratching, denting, warping and cleaning. In general, carbon material is currently invulnerable as opposed to wood. It’s a one time purchase and will last a lifetime. Even a junk butt that feels good will work as well as the best cue made, as long as you use your favorite tips and keep it clean.
Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean by “takes too much to operate”. Dr. Dave explains it and demonstrates the concept from a well documented perspective and provides video on his web site really detailing the concept. No criticism intended.
@@MrBobZack but truthfully Bob, I’ve worked way too hard and have logged 2,300+ hours since Feb 2021 so I’m not going to switch at this point. I’m making great strides with my LD maple and don’t want to take several steps back to master a CF cue 🤷🏻♂️
Ron, regarding pool, I won’t say different strokes for different folks, exactly, BUT, cue sticks of choice depends on personal tastes and results….whatever turns you on….just ask Earl the Pearle…..he won’t touch a Carbon flubber.
They aren't all Low Deflection. My Revo 11.8mm is LOW DEFLECTION for sure!! As close to NO DEFLECTION as u can get. Whoever sold u the CF shaft knew it wasn't LD shaft too.
@@ronthepoolstudent That sucks! There is some info to beware of some brands. Especially the generic. Also good brands though. Think of how much cost they have in that too. Unbelievable! If u want a LD CF shaft, Predator or Cuetec r the only way to go.
Amen Albert, I found that out. The shaft in the video is a Prather btw. This video was made long ago and I’ve since learned a ton about Carbon Fiber shafts. The Jacoby 11.5 pro taper is super low deflection compared to the Prather. Thanks 👋
But all things considered you might find it easier to adjust the the deflection with a harder tip. The victory medium has one of the highest spin rates and is actually kinda hard with an 83 tip density . The harder tip should shorten the pivot point on the shaft. But I realize it's a 25 dollar tip. Maybe slap a cheap triangle tip and see and if that knocks the pivot point down then go with your choice of tip with a harder tip rate
I've been shooting that shot a lot. Had it three times in league last week. Made all three times with my Konllen carbon fiber shaft. I have three of their cues and they all play the same. Must be a lemon shaft you got.
Thanks bud, I’m now actually able to run consecutive nine ball racks these days with my $100. Champion cue. I have set aside my Predator w/Z3 shaft 🤷🏻♂️ Thanks again, this is an old video btw.
I've been using the z shaft since it first came out , now I'm on the z-3 ....never had one bow or warp! ever! I am going to carbon fiber due to cleaning and maintenance...this guy definitely mistreated that z shaft some how....there just to much glue to warp.
Carbon fiber absolutely sucks!!!! It is cheaper to manufacture than wood and has been marketed to be better when that is not the truth. Willie moscone run 526 balls with a maple shaft Jason Shaw just beat that record running 714 balls with a maple shaft. Efren reyes, Earl strickland, Francisco bustamante, Jason Shaw, the best players still play with maple. I saw Shane von Boeing in 2021 playing one pocket not an event not televised and guess what he was playing with a solid Maple shaft with a 1 inch feral. So those that want to believe carbon fiber will elevate their game go ahead and keep believing that.
@@markthebarber7845 Respectfully Mark, it is the same aim point. The issue is with the carbon fiber shaft (a Prather), as it squirts the cue ball much more due to it being a stiff, high deflection shaft. Thanks for watching and commenting though 👍🏻 ❤️🎱
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Thank you!! I have been telling people that after trying several carbon fiber shafts, that i went back to wood because carbon fiber has way more deflection. And they look at me like I am crazy.
It is all these novice players that don't really understand what deflection is and do not use high right or high left English in their style of play who think carbon fiber is such low deflection.
i also am using a players hxt shaft and it is considerably less deflection than the carbon fiber shafts i have tried. Including jacoby black, Rhino, becue prime, and others
@@scassidy77 Thank you for your feedback Rico and btw, I know of a Pro that wants to revert back to maple but his sponsor won’t continue with them if they do. I prefer maple too 👍🏻
I've left my z2 shaft in the case for about ten years, never has warped. I do have the Jacoby black shaft now and love it. That shot comes with practice with the shaft you shoot with. Its a different shaft that you have to adjust to.
This was a Prather CF shaft in the video Richard. Compared to the Revo, it squirts the cue ball terribly.
Also, this video was from long ago so I’ve had opportunity to shoot with several carbon fiber shafts since then. The least deflection I’ve found was with the Revo. This being said, there’s still no comparison to either my Purex or my Z3 low deflection maple shafts. For that reason, I won’t be using any carbon fiber shafts moving forward. I like the fact I can aim at the spot I intend to hit. Changing to something that I’d need to use Kentucky windage with, is not going to happen.
Also, for no reason whatsoever, that Z3 shaft in the video eventually straightened out which we all found super crazy. We have no clue why it did but I use it to this day.
Thanks for the input and I’m happy the carbon fiber works for you 👍🏻😊
I own a p3 revo 12.4 you’re probably shooting to hard the transfer of energy is greater so more touch is needed 75% of the shots with my stroke yours my be different but a fact I can leave you with is not all CF shafts are equal you get what you pay for the revo snd z3 have almost the same deflection so you should transition into it quickly good luck with whatever you choose sir
@@304traplord9 thanks for the info TL, I appreciate it 👍🏻
@@304traplord9 yeah, it wasn't too much difference going from the z2 to the Jacoby black. Less worry with cleaning and conditioning the shaft now too.
I straighten shafts by first rolling the shaft on the pool table and using a pencil, lightly mark the warp's beginning, middle and ending points.
Then, using a heat gun or hair dryer, heat the area around the middle pencil mark (7 to 8 inches long). Not too hot, just very warm. I know, this is very subjective. I practiced on some old, inexpensive, warped shafts first.
Now bend the shaft in the direction to correct the warp. You will need to bend the shaft much more than you think. Hold this position for a few seconds and release.
It you over-straighten, and the shaft now has a warp in the opposite direction, then repeat and bend to correct.
Obviously, there is an art to this. I have straightened several shafts. What have you got to lose? The warped shaft is not very useful in its current condition.
Thank you PP for that info.
Btw, the crazy thing is this Shaft straightened itself out a few months after the video and has remained straight as an arrow to this day, it’s crazy 🤷🏻♂️
Carbon fiber does not automatically translate to low deflection. Just as wooden does not automatically translate to not low deflection. You can get either with either. Looks to me like you got a regular deflection carbon fiber shaft. Unfortunately a lot of people automatically equate a carbon fiber shaft with low deflection, and think the main purpose of a carbon fiber shaft is low deflection. When in reality that couldn't be further from the truth. The main attributes to a carbon fiber shaft are as follows. No worries of warpage. No effects on the shaft due to environmental conditions such as humidity. No worries about dings. Shaft consistency. Those are the main attributes of a carbon fiber shaft. Low deflection is not one of the main attributes of a carbon fiber shaft. It just so happens that there are some companies who make their carbon fiber shafts low deflection. That doesn't mean that it is low deflection because it's carbon fiber. It simply means it's a carbon fiber shaft that was built to be low deflection.
Amen to everything you said Matthew.
For deflection reasons, I’m sticking to low deflection maple 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I feel you. My predator 3142 warped first then the ferrule cracked. I then ordered a $300 dollar konllen cue (with "afterburner" and "aggravating system" lmao). It destroyed my game because i was so used to predator deflection being a bit lower. Now 3 months in and i have ordered my 2nd konllen cue as a spare. I really cant complain, its a low deflection shaft with a pro taper that's not fragile and i even break with it at times when i cant be bothered to reach for my break cue. If you are new to carbon fiber shafts, moderate your hit and lengthen your bridge.
Thanks alexes, appreciate your comment and advise. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks for watching too…😊
Appreciate your comment, what is your cue model 😍
I now use my bend wood shaft for breaking. Took some time to get used to the Cynergy but love it now.
Thanks for your comment Jerry
👍🏻😊👍🏻
@@ronthepoolstudent IMHO, you pick a carbon shaft for the benefits it provides and stick with it. Once you get used to the shaft, the deflection difference becomes inconsequential. I never tried a Revo but starting to get mused to the Cynergy so I will stick with it. Point is; The Revo has lower deflection that Cynergy but it would not make me a better shooter. I did however try a Defy lasty week, and no way would I recommend it. It is not even close to be as smooth as the Cynergy. The other players were wondering why I don’t wear a glove, until they tried my Cynergy. Thanks for the videos Ron!
@@JerryLee.. thanks Jerry, I appreciate the input.
This is an older video as you can see so today, I’ve settled in on my maple, low defection shaft cues which I have two. (both perform the same)
I agree we can learn to adapt to a cue.
Since this video, I’ve shot with a few carbon fibers and they are different. The Revo seems to deflect the least I’ve found.
This being said, I’m used to aiming at where I need to hit with my maple shafts, I can’t bring myself to switching to let’s say the Revo where I need to aim an eighth of an inch or so off target to account for deflection/cue ball squirt.
The test shown in the video is so telling. I’ve tested many cues since (both maple & CF) and it’s amazing the differences. This testing has confirmed that I’ll be sticking with what I have, a Z3 low deflection Predator shaft and an 11.8 low deflection Purex.
Thanks again for what I agree is good information and thanks again for the compliment 👍🏻
Also the carbon fiber shaft transfers a lot more than wood. So you're actually shooting a lot harder than you realize with the carbon fiber shaft. That's where the biggest adjustment and benefit is with carbon fiber. You can really slow down your aim and get the same amount of action. Most carbon fiber shafts are low deflection. Now I can't say all depending on ferrule and how they are filled. Most are foam filled and different foams have different weight. Both my break shaft and playing shaft have no ferrule . But that's just where I'm at with my choice of shafts
I have a q-tech carbon fiber shaft and one of the first things I noticed when I first started playing with it was the low deflection. I had a predator multi laminated low deflection Maple shaft before that good shaft but the q-tec carbon fiber I found low deflection, and you don't have to hit near as hard it does transfer more power to the cue bowl that took some getting used to. And I don't believe all carbon fiber shafts are created equal. Loving my carbon fiber cue Tech I am getting really good cue ball control I shoot the same shot it is one of my favorites as well. No problems with my carbon fiber making that shot.
It's hard slowing down a pool stroke with the carbon fiber , I've never seen anyone hit a ball hard and play well with them
👍🏻
No matter how great the quality control is, there will always be lemons. Most of the folks at my pool hall play with Predator gear. It's good stuff. For comparison: I have a McDermott GCore that has lived in the trunk of my car for YEARS and is still straight as a string!
The crazy thing Michael, this Z3 shaft straightened on its own about six months after this video.
The video is an older vid and I’ve since been shooting with this cue.
I just recently received my SVB Ghost Edition with Cynergy 15k shaft. To me, the main benefit is the silkiness of the cue. With a glove, can't really feel it going through the bridge. My stock Mezz EC-9 is wonderful and nearly identical in weight and balance to the SVB, but the carbon fiber shaft makes them feel so different. CF is just so silky smooth, absolutely no comparison to wood. Looking forward to trying your deflection test, but at this point, I am realizing my Mezz and Meucci's will be in the rack if I don't go CF. This is my 1st CF, I can't compare to other top CF, but really happy so far. My issue now, what CF shaft for the United Mezz Joint. Ignites are hard to find available and so dang expensive, any suggestions from the community always welcome. Thanks for the great video
@@boscomoroz326 thank you for sharing Bosco and please update as to what you find with the test.
Btw, I used to shoot with a glove for its smoothness but I’ve shot without for over a year because I couldn’t feel the cue 🤷🏻♂️😊
You’re right that CF is silky smooth 👍🏻
Hot steam can help to cure warped shafts. Then the wood fibers become softer and can be straightened. The whole thing then has to dry again in the correct shape during fixation.
Thank you Lanternman. This is what our local cue maker mentioned as well.
Btw, this cue magically straightened by itself a couple months after this video. It’s my cue today 🤷🏻♂️
I’m on the verge of buying a carbon fiber shaft. My understanding is that I should expect less deflection than with my OB after market shaft. I have a good Joss cue that I bought new in 86’. If I shoot pretty firmly in a similar setup as you I get damn near a full ball width of deflection with two tips of inside english on about a 7’ shot. I actually like to practice that shot as it gives me a lot of comfort on aim and how I’m stroking the shot on any given day.
Hi Larry and thank you for your input.
This video was from awhile back and since then, I’ve had lots of exposure to carbon fiber shafts. I have found the Jacoby 11.8, pro taper, carbon fifer shaft, to be the lowest deflection. Compared to my Predator, 11.8 Z3 maple shaft, I really see no difference.
Btw, I’m not advocating you get the Jacoby, but you may want to try several before pulling the trigger. No matter which shaft you opt for, realize that it may take some time to learn its characteristics.
Hope that helps and thanks again👍🏻
PS, the CF in this video is a Prather and it causes a lot of squirt.
Also if you place your z shaft on your rack flexing opposite of where it bowed it's possible to straighten it back out. But if you want to try that I'd suggest you check it's roll after 4 hours and when it's finally straight. Barnishing with cue wax and leather
The kind of racks I have are with a 1” diameter hole at the top restraint and a depression for the rubber bumper at the bottom…the cues rest in a loose upright position, there are no detents.
Storing a cue on a wall rack is OK but you need to occasionally rotate the cue 180 degrees or even 90 degrees in steps until it is rotated finally a total of 360 degrees. .... than repeat. Also put on an inside wall.... not outside wall. Many cue manufacturers mention this is their instructions. I have some cues I have owned for 60 years and no warping.... I even have one cue I hand made when I was in high school and it is dead straight. I also have one carbon fiber cue...McDermott Defy V 2 that I have now had for one year. I love it and the feel is close to my other LD McDermotts. To me the big advantage of the CF cues is consistency, maintenance and care isn't an issue. Maybe it is me but I always made a point of holding my wood cue in exactly the same rotation to avoid differences in stiffness with the grain or against it. Much of a cue choice is psychological.... if you think it is better or worse....it will be.
Thank you RK, I appreciate the information, all good to know.
As for the warpage, six months after this video, the shaft miraculously straightened out on its own. It’s been going on two years now and it’s still arrow straight. Also, I store it in the same rack as before,,,crazy I know 🤷🏻♂️
Thanks again 👍🏻
Thanks Ron. Opposite of what I expected. I switched to a new carbon fiber cue for reduced deflection and learning the performance differences vs my trusty ol solid wood cue…
That carbon fiber shaft I had adapted to fit my Predator butt, it was not good. This being said, I would think any CF upgrade would require adjusting to its deflection.
@@ronthepoolstudent I picked up a revo a couple months ago and it's required a substantial adjustment in aiming. I think there is a lot of truth to his comment about power, especially if you've been shootin w/ wood for decades. I also didn't like the victory tip so we'll see how it shoots after I have that replaced. sometimes it actually feels like my mezz sigma has less deflection. Maybe it's just more intuitive because I've had decades of practice w/ wood and I'm hitting excessively hard w/ the REVO 🤷♂️. But many great players have done the testing and argue it's about as low deflection as it gets so I've gotta trust them on that. I also definitely don't think you should judge carbon shafts based off a knockoff.
@@arbitraryalias9825 I agree AA. The carbon fiber in my video is a Prather. It squirts the cue ball a lot as seen in the video.
Also, this was published long ago. Today, I have a better understanding of carbon fiber cues. I have learned for instance, the Revo is one of the best in terms of low deflection.
One more thing; I have grown into my Z3 low deflection maple shaft. I won’t be converting for that reason.
Here’s something that may interest some. I know of a current touring pro that wishes he could go back to his maple shaft but his sponsor forbids it.
Thanks for your input AA 👍🏻
Carbon fiber shafts very wildly in deflection just as wood shafts do. The lowest deflection shafts have maybe 1/2 inch on 8 feet soft hit, worst can be over 3 inches. You have to calibrate your aiming based on the deflection and swerve of each shaft and you have to know how to adjust. This is important when selecting a shaft. Many old timers that shoot with normal high deflection shafts and use feel based aiming cannot handle deflection changes of moving shaft to shaft. All players should understand the deflection point of each shaft they use. The deflection point is the point where if the bridge is placed that simple back hand English compensates for deflection at a specific hit speed. Revo 19.5 inches, z 13 inches, 314 11 inches, Duffrin bar cue 6 inches. if you use the corresponding bridge length it will automatically correct your stroke flaws for deflection for that cue and speed. Have fun. Just a note from an instructor and engineer working on mastering pool.
Great to know zehboss!
Thank you for that input 👍🏻👍🏻
I think the carbon fiber shafts, if not done correctly, like the knock offs can easily be with a higher deflection as it is very hard and stiff.. I play with a Revo 12.4 and it has a very low deflection.. almost the same deflection as a predator zshaft.. maybe a cuetec or a revo will suit you better. 😁
@@Tedsterslab thanks J T 👍🏻👍🏻
As an old timer you mentioned, I call total BS on not being able to move between cues and shafts. 1st hour on new CF SVB Ghost Edition was pretty horrible getting used to the feel of CF, but then table run after table run. I purely aim by feel or more accurately, i just see the angles appear and shoot. I switched back to Mezz EC9, ran table, moved to 1990s Meucci, ran table, swapped to 2 year old Meucci with The Pro, ran table. Back to SVB Ghost CF, same. My problem is I like the silky smooth feel of CF way more than any wood shaft I have ever played. Feels smoother without a glove than wood with a glove. Of course, Meucci, Mezz, and Cuetec all have different joints...bummer. Play on a 1974 Murrey table with Simonis 860. Just a beautiful table; it rolls dead pure and is stupid fast. If I change my bridge forward or back, I must also re-adjust stance and rear hand as well, One change definitely affects everything else.
I went from a Z2 11.8mm 29" to a Revo 12.4mm 30" and I they shot the exact same for me as far as spin and squirt. I was worried about a difference and maybe I got lucky but I love the Revo. I've never been a fan of their tips and I swapped it out same day I think. Using a hard H UltraSkin.
Thank you a Stanford for the info. After my experience with the Prather carbon fiber in the video, I grew gun shy to spend the money. If I were to opt for one in the future, I’d get the Revo however.
Thanks again 👍🏻
@@ronthepoolstudent hi, I went from a Mcdermott i3 shaft (11.75mm) to the 12,4mm revo and also find it similar and easy to get used to regarding deflection. The stock victory soft tip suited me fine. I was playing with a kamui soft on my old shaft. Yet both shafts play differently than other wooden shafts that I have tryed....
@@georgemathiellis5486 thanks for the input George, good info to know.
Since this video, I have only shot maybe three shots with a friend’s Revo. I did not give it enough practice to determine it’s true difference to my low deflection maple. I did notice it being much better than the Prather CF in my video however.
At this point, I’ve got to stick with my two 11.8 low deflection cues. I have thousands of hours shooting well with them so don’t want to start over. I do like the look of the black in black with CF but I’m pretty set in my ways at this point.
One more thing. Another good player told me just last week he’s been shooting with a Revo and can’t really tell the difference from it to his low deflection maple.
I think I would need to spend the bigger money to get the better performance shaft to satisfy my expectations if I were to take the plunge.
Thanks again George 👍🏻
@@ronthepoolstudent I selected the i3 about 13 years ago because I was pretty bad at draw shots. It helped me improve and in a good day I could play very well. The problem was that in a bad day or when under pressure I was putting unwanted spin on the cue ball and I was missing long balls. The thicker revo helped me aiming and making more of those shots without having to adjust my cueing much.
I can tell you that the 12,9 revo is VERY different in the way it plays compared to the 12.4. Players who don't play with much side spin love the 12.9 while others like me who prefer low speeds and lots of spin cannot make a long ball with it.....
@@georgemathiellis5486 thanks for that info George.
I too like to use spin with finesse. I have better accuracy when I don’t bang or force shots.
My thin 11.8 shafts allow for great spin action but I agree they can mess us up on those longish shots when spin is required.
When I’m in dead stroke, I’m amazed that I can deliver the cue ball with any type spin to those long shots.
It’s a crazy game and finding consistency is the battle 🤷🏻♂️👍🏻
I had the same issue with a 314-3 shaft. It bowed in the first 3 weeks. They replaced free because it was within 30 days. I got lucky. Actually, I found out that everyone has 30 days to try all new Predator products and can return them within 30 days at no charge if not satisfied. Thats AWESOME. Unless your cue bows in more than 30 days. Ron should talk to a manager at Predator. Ill bet they will go to bat for him eventually.
I was shocked actually since I explained I use their products and brag their cues up on my channel all the time.
I also told them I had just purchased their new AirRush jump cue and loved it. I still got a stone cold no that there was just a 30 day only warranty. Because of this, I’m now reluctant to purchase another Z3 replacement shaft from them.
I was going to purchase another Z3 with the pro taper as the one the that had warped had a conical taper. This all being said, my Purex pro taper shaft is amazing so I’m going to look into converting another Purex shaft so it will fit the Predator butt since I no longer have a shaft for it 🤷🏻♂️
@@ronthepoolstudent find your satisfaction email they sent you when you bought the shaft. Reply to that with negativity and a manager might hook u up.
@@ronthepoolstudent also, OB makes a great Low Deflection Shaft! Cheaper too.
The only real adjustments you have when making a carbon shaft is where you put the foam fill, how much foam fill in each spot, the taper, the material used for the joint and the vault plate/tip. With a carbon fiber it generates or transfers twice as much force on impact as a wood shaft does as the wood shaft has some give and cushion where carbon is solid and ridged. The smo shaft and the whyte carbon shafts I’ve heard rave things about there deflection but have yet to try one. I shoot with a Jacoby black feels as good in the bare hand as a predator wood shaft and I haven’t had much adjusting at all for shots like that maybe allowing for 1/32 of a offset on the aim but I also shoot that shot at 60-65% of what I would with a wood shaft giving it time to draw the cue all back. I have noticed with the carbon shafts if you use a center ball shot line up and back hand adjusted English you don’t worry about the English as all on extreme English shots.
Thank you Billybob. I actually have shot with a Jacoby 11.8 pro taper shaft and was surprised at how the deflection was very close to my Predator Z3 maple. I would have bought one at the time had they been in stock. After sleeping on it however, I decided to stay with the maple.
This video is from a long time ago. Today, I still shoot with an 11.8 Z3 and I’m very very happy. I’ve been shooting with it for almost three years which is almost as long as I’ve been playing. I know it so well, I’ll be staying with it till I’m no longer able to play the game.
Thanks again for your input, I appreciate it.
Btw, the carbon fiber in the video is a Prather.
Hey, Ron, you posted this 2 years ago. I'd love to hear the conclusion you've come to.
The reason I ask is because I want to switch to CF from my Cuetec Avid Chroma. I'm looking at the Sport 2 w/ revo shaft, but now you've scared me.
Thoughts?
@@BooksNGuns
Thank you Ricardo, my best advice is to pick your poison and stick with it. I have always shot with maple and now shoot very well as I know my cue. I have shot with carbon fiber that my friends have, but they are so different to what I’m used to. For this reason, I’m staying with my maple Z3 shaft.
Lastly, I’m not saying not to go with carbon fiber, I’m only saying to pick one and stay with it and not jump back and forth.
Hope that helps 👍🏻
When you went to 11.8 tip size, your aim point is different. Have to adjust buddy
Yes, the smaller the tip, the more precise the aim point has to be. It is a lot different to adjust to smaller tip than going toward a larger one
👍🏻
Thanks for sending me here
You’re welcome TJCS 👍🏻
I have a 314-3 and I've played with a REVO. They both are very good but the REVO has less deflection.
Thanks for that info Christian 👍🏻
"less deflection" is still deflection and you will have to learn to adapt for it. Also make no mistake , there are time when "more deflection" can be good.
I don't know about the carbon fiber shaft that you have but I do not have that problem with the meucci carbon fiber shaft or my Revo.
I shot with a Meucci CF yesterday and it had no issues 🤷🏻♂️
I can tell you I own, 3 carbon shaft, 2 BeCue and 1 Cuetec. The 2 becue has vey low deflection, where my Cuetec, a little more deflection. There some adjustment period, but one you understand to compensate. You will be fine.
Yes Veson, it’s all about becoming accustomed to which ever cue you shoot with like you said.
This video was from awhile ago and I’ve learned a lot about CF since then.
Thanks for your comment 👍🏻
Some carbon shafts are not LD, just FYI. I've kept all my cues in cases for over 25 years with no warping.
Very old video Kiko and yes, I now am fully aware that carbon fiber shafts are not created equal.
Also, my Z3 maple shaft mysteriously straightened (on its own) after several months.
All this being said, I’m a committed maple shaft guy. The lowest deflection carbon fiber, (that I’ve heard of) is the Revo according to my strong player friends.
I’m sure there are others, but these guys in my area shoot with that shaft. Even then, there is some deflection. You cannot over hit the shot and the bridge length needs to be longer I’ve been told.
The Revo squirts the cue ball over my low deflection 11.8 Z3 maple shaft.
Thanks for your input and thank you for watching K 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Ron, I've owned 2 pure x shafts and although they did play great with low deflection the 11.75 mm certainly gets you more side spin than a 12.5 and so on so forth.
Thw ferrules are also different.
Is it my imagination or with thw carbon fiber tyw cueball is rotating forward alot more almost high cue in a sense .
It doesn't look like you get on the cueball edge alot and maybe it's spinning which I am sure it is differently.
My 2 pure x both warped in maybe 3 months and I only played one pocket with them .
My much fatter 13.1 joss cue barely takes at English but creates a ton of deflection also grrrrrrr .
How long have you had your pure x hxt shaft , mine delivered a nice straight low deflection and soft hit but the newer so called small diameter wood shafts just seem to warp.
I've seen a 11.75 Kitana last less than 2 years also .
But I am positive smaller diameter equals more spin rate.
Watch your video in slow motion and tell me if the carbon fiber rolls the ball more vertically end over end
Thank you Riff for your input and question.
This video is quite old but since then, my Purex is still laser straight. (no longer shoot with it though)
Also, my Z3 shaft miraculously straightened itself out on its own.
And as far as carbon fiber is concerned. I do not like them at all.
Also, I’m not sure if more spin was occurring with the cheap Prather CF shaft, but it’s possible even though I struck the cue ball the same 🤷🏻♂️
Lastly; one of my strong sparring partners shoots with an 11.8, Pro taper, CF Jacoby, I find that shaft to play similar to my maple Z3 shaft.
Thanks again 👍🏻
I bigger tip you have to apply more English. This is because even with the same tip placement. The core of the tip is hitting a different spot on the curb ball. In actuality only about 2mm max of your tip is ever making contact with the cue ball at one time. Tip being shaped to a dime radius helps with this regardless the size of the shaft but there will always be a different. I have went to carbon fiber but the size of the shaft is the same as I've always played it with. Best thing about carbon fiber is that even the 10.5 mm shafts play just as stiff as be the 13mm shafts. So you can really just get what you prefer to play with. Even deflection between the sizes is pretty close. But weight really just affect how a cue plays as well. I've always preferred 17.5 oz cues. With a forward balance.
Great info Jason 👍🏻
I’m just starting to know the differences. I’ve shot with CF but not enough to make any comments on those.
I personally don't have a ferrule. Just a 1/16 of a inch white sight plate from kamikaze. This keeps my reflection low on my carbon fiber shaft. My break shaft has no ferrule. Just a bulletin proof one peace. It jumps, and breaks very well with very low deflection
Interesting 🤔
I'm not real careful like you with my equipment and I have NEVER had a quality shaft warp like that. To see the difference I would shoot that shot alternating from one cue to the other. Then if I couldn't tell what was going on I would shoot with the carbon fiber shaft until I could consistently make the one ball. Then go back and shoot with the maple shaft three or four times. Assuming the tips are equal Kamui Black soft right? I shoot with HOW mediums but used to shoot with Kamui's. Shafts going from warm temps to cold temps over time could cause warpage possibly or maybe the ferrule has gone cock eyed on you? I've got 30 some odd shafts going back to the mid 80's and none of them are warped. Mostly McDermott shafts. I shoot a lot with a McDermott "i3" 11.8mm maple shaft but have a NEW Defy 2.0 carbon fiber 12mm shaft now. I'll try this shot with them!
That was a Kamui soft back then John. Today, I use a Kamui med.
Also, that Z3 shaft straightened itself out on its own some how.
I’ve been using it ever since.
Also you carbon fiber shaft is actually lower deflection. But the reality is the term low deflection or when one shaft is lower deflection. It mean longer bridge length because they have a longer natural pivot point. Based on how you was missing I'd say your bridge point needs to be about 3 or 4 inches longer
👍🏻
can't reccomend the viking siege enough it has a really soft hit and low deflection but it is pretty expensive, as for the shaft you got it is probably a standard deflection shaft rather than low deflection
Thanks for the recommendation on Viking George.
Yes, this shaft I have is not good. 🤷🏻♂️
I have to agree with George. Although I do not have the Viking Siege, I do have the Valcore low- deflection shaft and I feel it is dead on. Before I purchased the Viking, I tested Predator and Mizz cues. For the price and feel, the Viking is a much better cue for me and plus I got the exact look I was looking for. Compared to my old regular shaft. The low-deflection is way BETTER. I have my eyes on the Siege as well.
Actually, you hit it harder with the carbon shaft wich is why it deflect more.
Thanks for watching SA.
I just learn how to spin the ball with my Z shaft carbon fiber is hit where it says hit done, I use to spin rail shots all day now just point and shoot, bit of readjust on line took me 3 weeks. pretty close now?
Very good Giordano 👍🏻💪🏻👍🏻😊❤️🎱
I’m thinking about buying a low deflection shaft for my Joss . Do I purchase a Katana low deflection shaft or would I be better off with a carbon fiber shaft?
Thank you for your question Stephen.
Suggesting a shaft to another player is not easy. It’s really up to you, the player.
Personally, I like a thin shaft (11.8 mm), low deflection cue, that is 18 ounces.
Also; I do not know anything about a Katana so I’m not one to give advice there.
This said, experiment with several cues until you find one that feels best to you. Once you find this cue (carbon fiber or wood), stick with it till you totally learn its characteristics.
This takes time depending on your schedule of course.
Lastly, you don’t have to spend lots of money on a cue in order to play consistently well.
Here’s a more recent video I just published, hope this helps.
See link below:
A Great Pool cue for the money
ruclips.net/video/GZ7MXpJYpoM/видео.html
@@ronthepoolstudent thank you
@@stephenclabaugh2651 you’re welcome Stephen, please let me know if you have any other questions 👍🏻
does
Does a thinner shaft have any bearing on deflection and is a thinner shaft more difficult to master
I use a low def mcdermot its lifetime guareenteed ive tested it my shaft broke after a year where it screws in a in up!! Did you register your shaft cause you have to to get warranty. My cue 18.6 and i use it to do cut back shots when a bank is not open and i practice it as well. Ive been playing apa for 15 years
Maybe : i see the cue ball jump left on instant contact id have to guess its the no low deflect and maybe try flattening your tip on the carbon fiber
It is registered and I was in contact with Predator about this issue several times. The told me there cues hold only a 30 day warranty.
@@ronthepoolstudent wow i thought it was lifetime for them as well i sent mine to mcdermott and they gave me a brand new shaft it did cost me for the shipping with insurance added like $50. Im in cali i forget where they were
I shoot with a 45 year old Palmer custom PM-3 it's still straight as a arrow.....
Nice @kens .2753, that’s a great cue 👍🏻
Thank you for watching and your comment 👍🏻😊
There are different "levels" of carbon shafts. Not all are low deflection. It looks like the cf shaft you bought is a bit on the cheap side. Now, don't get me wrong, cheap doesn't always mean bad, but I believe a good quality Predator CF shaft would probably perform better.
By the way, I play a lot of pool in the Philippines. A few years ago I decided to buy a stick here just to have my own because I did not bring my own from America. I bought a 2500 peso (about $50 at the time) stick. It is not a carbon fiber shaft, but made to look like one. Even though it is a VERY cheap stick the deflection of this stick is amazingly low. Almost hard to believe low. So sometimes cheap is just fine.
I find it amusing so many guys think buying an expensive stick the answer to their bad game. If you are a bad player with a cheap stick, you are going to be a bad player with an expensive stick. Period. I see Filipinos, on a regular basis, with 1250 peso ($25) sticks just destroy foreigners here with their $800 to $1250 sticks. And I am not talking about high-end Filipino players here (and there are a lot of those), but just the average guy that walks into a bar and/or pool hall.
Focus on fundamentals of alignment, stroke, learning center ball play (Tor Lowry teaches this as good as anyone), and learning the basic shots of pool. Most pool shots are actually only four or five different types of shots.
Thank you James, I 100% agree.
Btw, this video was long ago in my 587 days since beginning to learn this game. Since then, I’ve discovered a lot about these cues. Also, I have made huge strides in my own game and I have dedicated myself to iron out sound fundamentals and am working to ingrain certain aspects of them still today. (full stroke pause for instance)
With these sound fundamentals, I can use any of my cues (I have several) and shoot 600 Pool.
Equipment is important but $$$s don’t make all equipment good as you’ve stated. This is a true statement, It’s not about the high dollar tool, it’s about who’s operating it.
Thanks again for you comment and thank you for taking the time to watch my video. 👍🏻
Who TF are all these people traveling with $1200 pool cues in the Philippines 🤷♂️😆
@@brandoncharles4781 more than you might think. Of course most foreigners are not traveling with $1000 cues, but there are numerous here that I have seen - and they all get their asses kicked.
When dealing with smaller shafts it's not good to leave them on a rack . Because they flex more and on a rack they are flexing. Causes worpage
I’ve not heard this before, can you give more detail as to what’s taking place?
Well as the wall mount holds it at the top and bottom it has a tendency to push bot parts of the cue away from the wall where it connects to the cue. On 13 mm shafts the pressure isn't enough to bow the unless exposed to heat or cold of mosture at the same time. But your z shaft is very flexible. This is where the issue comes from
@@jasonsanders9054 ruclips.net/video/NM43IEZw21A/видео.html
What kind of shaft is the carbon fiber? I have a z3 11.8mm and I bought a cynergy 11.8mm....the cynergy has less deflection then the z3. By the way I shaved my z3 to a pro taper and it always stays in my trunk (hot and cold) hasn't warped yet, been 2 years. I got too used to my cynergy can never go back to wood
The Carbon fiber was a Prather. As for the Z3, I believe this one is defective.
Also, another one of my subscribers ordered a Z3 and it too warped right away. Luckily for him, after a battle with Predator and because he bought direct from them, they did an exchange.
Predator told me I had to buy from them directly and not through Seybert’s or any other supplier in order to have only a 30 day exchange warranty.
I have a palmer ive had 15 yrs straight as a arrow i fixed bows by reversing and flexing cue on table( just no how to find wobble before you try) many times for others just dont flex real hard and do it slowly also bathroom shower and steam it for 10 to 15 mins and flex it is better
Thanks 👍🏻
Do you have hudl, onform or coaches eye. Basically a program you can put lines on your video? The 1 ounce in the cue can make a difference. to me it looked like the PureX deflect about the same but swerves back. The Predator deflects but has no swerve. To me that would suggest with the PureX you hit down on the ball a little. Why? fall in the who knows. Might be a reaction to the weight distribution in the cues. For haha s measure the balance point of each cue from the butt. See which cue is more forward weighted.
The tip is being replace with a phenolic so the cue will be used solely for breaking in the future.
I’ve had three 600+ players I know shoot with the cue and they all agree the shaft isn’t right. 🤷🏻♂️
ruclips.net/video/AQM1fLTicfw/видео.html
@@ronthepoolstudent Wow! That shaft must be like 5 oz. I have shaft like that on a cue from the Phillipines. Haha sure is strange to watch.
How far off center are you aiming ? Probably to far, that’s why you get all that deflection. It should give you same amount of spin closer to center ball than your wood shaft.
Good to know, thanks.
Btw, this is an older video when I was very new to the game. Since then, I’ve shot with a Jacoby, 11.8, low deflection pro-taper. That cue shoots exactly like my Z3 low D maple shaft.
The CF in the video is a Prather too .
If you have shot a particular shot with your wooden cue adjusted to its own deflection rate then you can't shoot with another cue carbon fiber or not using the same stroke. The only way the shot will get pocketed is if the cue has a deflection rate of the original cue you have been shooting with. Low deflection doesn't mean NO DEFLECTION. IF you are familiar with bhe or fhe the or pe. These are used alone or in combination together to negate the squirt and swerve of any cue a player uses. Even if you may not be familiar with this. Still adjustments a player makes to pocket balls threw trail and error. Since every deflection rate for cues varies by tenths hundredths or even a whole inch or so. Shooting the cue ball the same way isn't going to give you an accurate depiction of the deflection measures that you are getting. Only shooting absolutely pure to insure that no previous adjustments are made. Because wooden cues almost always have a greater deflection range than a carbon fiber shaft the adjustments for the wooden shafts will make the carbon fiber shafts look like the carbon fiber shafts are higher deflection than they really are. You just gave up the prime example of this in this video. Please note that I'm definitely not trying to offend you or anyone else. Simply trying to give you the answer to your question for the carbon fiber shaft performance. Most players who shoot over a long-term use of their products make the adjustments for their products over time. Most importantly it usually does not happen intentionally. Meaning receive the shafts and measure the deflection and then make the adjustments no. But usually threw continuous use of their cues and learning subconsciously as they go. Not saying that is the wrong or right. The best thing about it is that you are in my opinion are a great person as it relates to the game of pool. Keep up the great work and videos.
Thanks Mac and sorry I didn’t see your comment until now as some comments don’t make it to the video’s comment section. (a RUclips flaw)
Thanks for articulating what’s going on here M. Since this video, I’ve grown a lot as a player with only 506 days of real play.
I totally agree with what you’ve said here. Every cue has to be figured out by it’s shooter. I’m so used to my Z3 Predator at this point there’s no way I would switch. When I have used one of my other cues, the change is apparent.
Thanks for watching my video and thank you for your input on this Mac 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
You would have been better off storing the cue in a hard case standing up then the wall. Wall get too much variation in humidity, heat and sunlight. Get a extra set of joint protectors for your shaft drill a hole through the top and add a rope loop then tape up the tip section with electric tape and add a rope loop in the tape. Hang the shaft in a closet on a floor with the most stable temperature and humidity with the joint side up tip pointing down and hang a small weight from the tip loop with a 2.5 to 5oz weight(lady barbel) for 1 to 2 months. That will probably do the trick. I fixed a very warped shaft this way to be dead straight. Since it a laminated shaft you cannot add any water to it. It will cause de-lamination. Many forget that wood is still alive and can be influenced by sun light like a plant to the light.
Sounds like a good idea Johnny. Btw, my racks are on my south wall where sunlight does not hit this area. Also, the racks have l” diameter holes at the top so the shafts remain loose without tension.
I will try your rig idea with weight for sure. I love the Z3 and shot again with it for 5 hours today even though it’s warped. The video I just posted was from today btw.
Note: I have marked the cue so I can always orient it in the right position so that the bow is sloping upward as I look down the cue at address.
You’re claiming my 30yo maple shafts are still alive? Don’t think so my friend, but I’ll pot one in loamy soil & see what happens.
@@murfrirhke4557 I miss spoke what I mean is it based on living material(bio cellular mass) which can be influence by water, humidity and solar heat radiation. Put your shaft in water and see what happens. Put your shaft in high heat as well. All cells have a certain level of water in them unless you cook it out like kiel wood but even then it can absorb some water from contact or the air but less than regular wood.
Always heard keeping cues in racks was a terrible idea
@@murfrirhke4557 🤣🤣
how much does the shaft diameter affect this shot. should get more action with the thinner shaft, helping it correct for the deflection right?
I have ten shooting cues of various diameters E and have had no difficulty in spinning the shot in with the 11.8 as well as my 13 mm shaft cue. Both deliver the cue ball accurately. This is why I was very surprised with the carbon fiber’s deflection. It’s puzzling for sure.
@@ronthepoolstudent well this was an informative video... glad i watched it before throwing out hundreds of dollars on a carbon fiber shaft
@@lunchboxjoeb thanks Entombed.
There are maybe other carbon fibers out there but I’m sticking to maple for my shooting cue 🤷🏻♂️
its sad to think that now that predator has inflated their prices to way past over priced that their quality control would go down. ive got two of their wood shafts about 10 years old that are wonderful. i got a chance to play with one of their revo shafts and i didnt really care for it. the only carbon shaft ive liked so far is a Pechauer.
It’s been a long time since this video Kelley and I’ve learned a lot about carbon fiber since then.
I’ve been able to shoot with many brands and found the Jacoby 11.8, pro taper, carbon fiber shaft to be identical to the Predator Z3 Maple.
I will say this; I have not tried the Pechauer however.
Thanks for letting me know 👍🏻
Try a Mezz
Mate
Carbon fiber shafts...
@@ferdinand2506 Thank you Bon. Btw, this video is from long ago. Lots of knowledge has been gained since then.
Thank you for your suggestion Sir 👍🏻
My jacoby black carbon fiber is the best out there and next to that is Jflowers carbon fiber pool cue
Thank you for that info Carl, I really appreciate it 👍🏻
not sure about the brand of carbon fibre shaft (they don't all perform the same) but your test is flawed. You are hitting the shot harder with the carbon shaft which is doing two things, 1. more deflection of course. Aim at the same spot with your wood shaft and hit progressively harder shots and you will see the ball get further and further from the object ball. 2. because of the slow speed you hit the ball with the wood shaft you're giving the spin a chance to catch and curve the cue ball back toward the object ball the combination of the initial deflection and subsequent swerve back toward the shot line makes it look like the wood shaft is "deflecting" less. That is not to say that the carbon shaft you're using is a lower deflection shaft (again, they don't all perform the same). There are many videos out there with people testing deflection showing the various carbon and wood shafts and their performance in this category.
Thank you JK. This is an old video btw. Since then, I’ve learned a ton and you’re correct.
Thanks for your input bud 👍🏻
PS, this is a Prather CF shaft.
Hi Ron what CF shaft is that that you bought.
Which brand just curious
Good question Jonny, I purchased and had the shaft set up by a cue maker but never asked any real questions. I’m going to follow up with him this Wednesday and I’ll let you know.
I just received a text from my cue maker and he said it’s a “HEX” sold by Prather.
@@ronthepoolstudent I looked up hex they only cost $95 unfinished. Maybe it's a subpar carbon fiber shaft compared to cuetec predator etc..I ordered a cynergy shaft with a joint to match my McDermott butt
i know why your preditor shaft warped , .......you had it on the rack , close to that fire .... lol .
😂🔥👍🏻 good one 😉
Check this out, six months after this video was published, the shaft all of the sudden was straight. True story 🤷🏻♂️
I have no clue why.
Just because it's a CF shaft doesn't mean it's a low DEFLECTION shaft too!! Do ur homework guys
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I play with a PureX 11.8 the HXT15 and it literally has no deflection. I stand by Pure X any day over the more expensive shafts
I have one too Kami and I agree, super low D 👍🏻
It campers to my Z3 low deflection shaft.
I’m willing to bet that is not a quality CF shaft. I had guys that hate low deflection shafts try my Cuetec Cynergy shaft played 2 racks and had one the next week😊
I have a Cuetec Cenergy Breach break cue Robert and love it 👍🏻
Btw, this was a 12.5 Prather CF shaft in the video.
This is an old video, I’ve since learned a lot about CF shafts. My favorite is an 11.8 Jacoby Pro taper.
@@ronthepoolstudent I love my Ghost Breach and Ghost Propel.
@@roberttruesdell6151 nice 👍🏻
❤️🎱
Is it just me when I say the carbon fiber is doing exactly what it's supposed to? You may not be aware of it but you're accounting for the deflection in your standard cue when you aim. It's subconscious for you at this point. When switching to the carbon fiber you're accounting the same way which is too much since the carbon fiber will squirt less. Agree?
Thank you HereAfter for the comment.
Since this video, I’ve improved as a player a lot. I’m shooting pretty much 600 Pool these days so I have a better understanding of cue shaft Performance.
I have two cues that perform pretty much identical. One is the Purex 11.8 pro taper low deflection, the second is my Z3 shaft Predator which is also an 11.8 w/low deflection but with a conical taper. I can aim directly at the spot as seen with the shot in this video. There may be some squirt but it’s minute with these cues.
The spin I’m applying will give some swerve which negates any degree of squirt which then brings the cue ball right back to the spot where I’m aiming.
I’ve shot with other carbon fiber shaft cues and they’ve all squirted the cue ball further than the cues I’ve just described. For this reason, I’ve decided to stay with the maple shaft 11.8 low deflection equipment.
I have given carbon fiber a chance but don’t want to go backward from what I’m used to at this point. Hope that explains what it is that I have found with these comparisons.
Thanks again 👍🏻
@@ronthepoolstudent Interesting. I'm just doing a review on a carbon fiber shaft and comparing it to my Huebler standard shaft. The deflection is noticeably less in the carbon fiber which is to be expected. Of course my Huebler shaft is standard and has no low deflection properties. ✌️
@@HereAfterBilliards if you run across a Predator Z3 maple, give it a try. Please let me know HereAfter what you find also if you would. I’d be interested to hear.
Carbon shafts have little to no flex wood shafts will flex, the flexing of the shaft is what counters the cue ball deflection
Correct David and thanks for that input as it will be helpful to those that read this.
Btw, this video was from a long time ago, I’ve learned a ton since then 👍🏻
Well.. I donno.... I like the Carbon because of..... it's doesn't drag while stroking compared to the wood. I play without a glove. Carbon isn't finniky about dings.. where I have to be careful with my wood shafts. I have cuetec truewood cues, which were the first for me. I bought a cuetec shaft for my schon's I have 5 ... I bought 1 for all my 3/8 x10 cues..OB & a few of the Meucci's. I would like to have a shaft for my other Meucci's. 5/16 x 18? and I had bought 1 for my Predator Radial joint.. I also bought a Predator and had to option to up grade to a Revo with white vaultplate thing instead of black. Now I struggled with the Carbon... no matter which that I was using... and it took a while to learn it. And the Cuetec and Predator Carbons paly slightly different. Or my opinion they do. But bottom line... I like the Carbon better. I can always go back to my wood cues.... but I'm gonna stick with whacking with the carbon for now.
@@willreasoner4384 Yes Will, it’s a matter of preference.
For me, I have very dry hands so a glove isn’t necessary.
This said, I actually did use a glove early on. In time, I ditched it as there was no need. What I then discovered was a better feel for the shot which I liked.
Today, I enjoy playing with a Z3, 11.8 maple, as it produces great finesse power through a higher spin rate compared to other cues I own. (11)
My bottom line is that I cut my teeth on the smaller diameter shaft and have learned it’s performance well. I will add however, I have a sparring partner that shoots with a Jacoby, 11.8 Pro taper carbon shaft that I find almost identical to the performance of my Z3. His and mine have the same joint so I’ve shot with it and was quite surprised. I have also shot with the Revo and a couple others brands. These had quite a bit more deflection than the Jacoby.
So once again, it’s really all a matter of preference once we reach a certain level. Sticking with which ever shaft is key as it takes time to learn the a cue’s characteristics 👍🏻
i use the pecheaur rogue 12.4
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Is it possible to straighten a carbon shaft?
No clue really Valter.
I’ve never heard of one that warped either 🤔
Btw, I only use CF for jumping and breaking now.
AirRush jump cue and the
Cuetec Synergy Breach break cue.
Both have stayed arrow straight to date.
Try a medium hard tip
Thanks John, I’m settled in with a cue now. Also, its a low deflection maple w/med Kamui tip. It works great. This video was from long ago where I have maybe 2,000 hours of play since then.
Thanks though 👍🏻
Deflection is a bending of the shaft, not the path of the ball. Squirt is what you are looking at and is caused by the shaft deflecting less and forcing the cue ball off your aim line. This is completely normal. A wood shaft has more deflection and less squirt. So when switching from wood to carbon fiber, you need to retrain your aim to compensate for the change in deflection and squirt.
You are correct, getting down my terminology these days as that’s an older video. Thanks.
thats for sure I can bend my wood shaft however the graphite is better for center ball players
Ron,
GO BUY A REVO 11.75mm. You will love it and you have the cash. Trust me
I trust what you’re saying Ronnie but one things certain, I’d shoot with one first before buying one 🤷🏻♂️
@@ronthepoolstudent Find a player up there that uses one and try it out. Trust me on this one. U won't have to buy another cue ever again and it won't ding
I've tried a Revo 12.4 I think it was. It's just another another stick in my opinion. In fact, it's hard to find a bad CF stick if you spend at least $300 for one. You have to really look hard to find a bad cue these days. JFlowers, Rhino, Cuetec, Predator, Viking...all the same to me. You can either spend $300 or $3000, but they are all the same with a few different characteristics. If you're 600 fargo rating with one stick, you be almost the same rating with another stick.
purex doesn't hold up against an avid shaft. that would be a much better comparison.
Thanks for the input Billy 👍🏻
Ron, I believe your attempt at showing squirt is erroneous. Suggest you go to Dr, Dave and see his demo on how detect how much stiff carbon shafts throw an object ball as opposed to a more limber wooden shaft. Then, consider the carbon shafts reaction to scratching, denting, warping and cleaning. In general, carbon material is currently invulnerable as opposed to wood. It’s a one time purchase and will last a lifetime. Even a junk butt that feels good will work as well as the best cue made, as long as you use your favorite tips and keep it clean.
Yes, this new CF shaft takes too much to operate and I’m not qualified so it’s back to my awesome Purex from now on 😉😂
Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean by “takes too much to operate”. Dr. Dave explains it and demonstrates the concept from a well documented perspective and provides video on his web site really detailing the concept. No criticism intended.
@@MrBobZack I’m joking about the cue 😉
@@MrBobZack but truthfully Bob, I’ve worked way too hard and have logged 2,300+ hours since Feb 2021 so I’m not going to switch at this point. I’m making great strides with my LD maple and don’t want to take several steps back to master a CF cue 🤷🏻♂️
Ron, regarding pool, I won’t say different strokes for different folks, exactly, BUT, cue sticks of choice depends on personal tastes and results….whatever turns you on….just ask Earl the Pearle…..he won’t touch a Carbon flubber.
They aren't all Low Deflection. My Revo 11.8mm is LOW DEFLECTION for sure!! As close to NO DEFLECTION as u can get. Whoever sold u the CF shaft knew it wasn't LD shaft too.
This thing is very disappointing for sure Ronnie. 😟
@@ronthepoolstudent That sucks! There is some info to beware of some brands. Especially the generic. Also good brands though. Think of how much cost they have in that too. Unbelievable! If u want a LD CF shaft, Predator or Cuetec r the only way to go.
ruclips.net/video/AQM1fLTicfw/видео.html
Yup I have an 11.8 cynergy basically no deflection as well. I was stunned when I seen how much deflection this carbon fiber shaft had
@@anon2414 I was stunned too 🤷🏻♂️
6:00 that might be the problem
Amen Albert, I found that out. The shaft in the video is a Prather btw.
This video was made long ago and I’ve since learned a ton about Carbon Fiber shafts. The Jacoby 11.5 pro taper is super low deflection compared to the Prather.
Thanks 👋
@@ronthepoolstudent Awesome! Great shaft. Have a blessed day
@@albert333pool thank you, you as well.
i bought some new predator stuff, i went back to wood, i just like the sighting, and the feel/
Me too Roger. The harmonics too 👍🏻
But all things considered you might find it easier to adjust the the deflection with a harder tip. The victory medium has one of the highest spin rates and is actually kinda hard with an 83 tip density . The harder tip should shorten the pivot point on the shaft. But I realize it's a 25 dollar tip. Maybe slap a cheap triangle tip and see and if that knocks the pivot point down then go with your choice of tip with a harder tip rate
👍🏻
I've been shooting that shot a lot. Had it three times in league last week. Made all three times with my Konllen carbon fiber shaft. I have three of their cues and they all play the same. Must be a lemon shaft you got.
I’ve heard they all play differently and they all take getting used to Mike 🤷🏻♂️
Newsflash....predator is not a good quality cue. Predator is a marketing gimmick. U want quality in a factory cue buy mezz. Blows predator away
I’m finding that out J 🤷🏻♂️👍🏻
The ferrule on that shaft is causing it to deflect more.
Ahhhh 👍🏻
Just by a 12.4 Revo End of story
Thanks bud, I’m now actually able to run consecutive nine ball racks these days with my $100. Champion cue. I have set aside my Predator w/Z3 shaft 🤷🏻♂️
Thanks again, this is an old video btw.
A more recent video.
New grip equates to nine ball 3 pack
ruclips.net/video/n5LN0enP_d8/видео.html
I've been using the z shaft since it first came out , now I'm on the z-3 ....never had one bow or warp! ever! I am going to carbon fiber due to cleaning and maintenance...this guy definitely mistreated that z shaft some how....there just to much glue to warp.
🤣
They have a warping issue at Predator. Trust me.......
You should try a cynergy great shaft for the money. I love mine...the revo is a softer hit though....the cynergy can feel like a steel rod
@@anon2414 thanks for the info 👍🏻
Carbon fiber absolutely sucks!!!! It is cheaper to manufacture than wood and has been marketed to be better when that is not the truth. Willie moscone run 526 balls with a maple shaft Jason Shaw just beat that record running 714 balls with a maple shaft. Efren reyes, Earl strickland, Francisco bustamante, Jason Shaw, the best players still play with maple. I saw Shane von Boeing in 2021 playing one pocket not an event not televised and guess what he was playing with a solid Maple shaft with a 1 inch feral. So those that want to believe carbon fiber will elevate their game go ahead and keep believing that.
I’m a believer in maple too SPC. All the carbon fiber I’ve shot with was not impressive other than durability as they can’t be dented.
Not the same aim point
@@markthebarber7845
Respectfully Mark, it is the same aim point. The issue is with the carbon fiber shaft (a Prather), as it squirts the cue ball much more due to it being a stiff, high deflection shaft.
Thanks for watching and commenting though 👍🏻
❤️🎱