It’s so impressive to see how much you’ve grown over the last 4-5 years I’ve been watching you. Not only has your musical intelligence skyrocketed, but also your confidence and ability to speak. You’re an inspiration man. I hope everyone can see you in the light that I do
The reason why your piano runs felt so underwhelming on the following day is the socalled "Penelope effect". We forget a good portion of what we learned over night so to speak. Thats also good because we dont only forget the good stuff but also the mistakes we made. So lets say we played something 10 times (7 good, 3 bad) and we forget 6 tries chances are good we forget all 3 bad versions and remember the good attemts. Also: when the muscles get tired and we continue to practice we learn to play with exhausted muscles - in concert we try to play fresh and relaxed. You might see what I mean... The body builder comparison doesnt work because we dont train for strenght or muscle mass but agility, presicion and flexibility. Sure endurance is importaint but is see it more like walking all day instead of lifting all day.. I'm clarinet teacher by training and study sax atm so I'm not the pinacle of wisdom but maybe that helped.. last word should be one of praise: great video!! I always wondered how that would go and now I dont have to try it myself but can profit of your experiment. thanks! interesting video
I use that third method a lot, going around the circle of 5ths. Once I start to feel comfortable going all the way around the circle I'll set up a "play along tack" running through the chord changes. That way I get forced to shorten the recall time to fit in time with the backing track.
Definitely hoping this becomes a series. Easily could be what I look forward to the most and there is a lot to do with it. You could revisit this exact same thing in a week and see how you've retained, redo the 3 methods and then see the results after that. Or just next short term pit the winner of this ep against 2 new ones. A lot of good stuff here!
I just listened to a podcast, and they looked at a study about practicing, and the study found that the more times you play a passage correctly at any tempo, the more it will retain.
I play upright bass and ever since I‘m not studying Jazz anymore and don‘t have as much time to practice the instrument, I noticed that it takes me far less time to learn new tunes, lines or whatever. So I learned that, for me personally at least, it is all about not practicing for 3-4 hours straight but playing for 30 min to 1 hour and just repeat things over and over again. The first 30 min to 1 hour can be uncomfortable but the next day feels much better. I guess my body needs time to get use to the new tune since the upright bass is such a physical instrument and hard to play.
im a 7th grade alto sax player trying to get into all-state. your videos have not only encouraged but also provided helpful insight for the saxhopone. Thank you so much!
Interesting video! I felt the same way about practicing the Mario Kart lick. I played it an almost infinite amount of times before it clicked. What made it click was breaking it down into sections. Instead of practicing the line from start to finish I practiced each section on its own. Then when each section was good I put them together and the muscle memory clicked and I was able to play it no problem.
From all I've learned about the learning process (which is quite a lot; I'm a qualified teacher and I've spent a lot of my time reading up learning, analysing my own learning etc.) I've recently concluded that 'feeling the burn' inside your head, and feeling worn out and hungry at the end of the session, is the single most significant factor in good learnin'. Really glad to watch this video, certainly affirms that view, especially when you said that the 3rd session hadn't been that long but felt like ages. When we're learning a lot we tend to percieve time as being slower (hence why your childhood was so long; taking in new stuff all the time). Anyway, I think it's time I actually applied this to my practice rather than doing junk reps like a fucking mug. Thanks again for this man.
A couple of the principles in the Fundamentals of Piano Practice (free, online on the web) is 1. on learning the notes, always play slow* but 2. on practicing your hand movements, play "fast" as soon as possible and 3. always play through your mistakes and fix them on the next repetition. It also recommends you to break down fast passages into chord-like chunks ("parallel sets") since a chord attack is technically infinite speed and it's a lot easier to go down from infinity-to-fast rather than slow-to-fast. I put "fast" in quotes since you technically can play "fast", but slowly; this is the equivalent of simulating how to run but in 50% speed. You kinda have to break down how exactly how your limbs move at full tempo and practice that carefully so you don't make bad habits. *also don't rely on your muscle memory, actually memorize the notes fully and let your muscle memory develop around it. muscle memory is a lot more temporary in the short-term and will generally harm memorizing the notes long before it truly kicks in in the long-term and you can play without thinking about it as much.
Nice video. I have watched quite a few of your's and they are always interesting. I wanted to mention something that really helped me develop my "bop" chops. You may or may not get use out of it. I noticed you kept saying "the 6th of the minor ii is" ... While you are correct, there is a more simple way to look at it. I would think of this as the 3rd of the V chord. In fact, I would analyze everything over the ii chord as if it's the actual V chord. I've learned that pretty much everything in bop is V to I. The ii chord is just an extension of the V chord (D minor is an extension of G7 starting on the 5th chord tone of G7). This allows my brain to move faster through changes. Also, you can then start to just super impose V to I, V t I, V to I anywhere you want. I think it was Branford or someone that said there is no ii chord in Be-Bop, and I've really found this to be true in many ways. Sorry for the long comment and it may not prove useful, but you seem like the kind of guy that would appreciate trying to look at it from another vantage point.
@Keanan_ he means just his preset. It’s probably set to a larger tip opening and chamber than what you’d see in classical. I don’t remember their website fully but I think you might be able to answer questions of what type of music you’re looking to play and then they guide your mouthpiece making from there. Most of their stuff I see is jazz though, but there are a lot of great classical hard rubber mouthpieces out there
Honestly on my own, I use the first method because that’s what they teach you from the time you’re in 6th grade until high school, but I have noticed that it’s not working all the time. Since it’s, yknow, solo and ensemble picking season, I’m trying to get my solo and I was just looking for a better way to practice it so I actually might just split it into sections and try out the 3rd method, so thank you!
I feel like the whole "practice it in all 12 keys" idea is sort of lost on guitar, due to how the instrument is built and the fact that the fingerings stay mostly the same in most places, but I like your findings and I shall try out a version of this practicing technique :)
@@matthewharrison7868 yeah, I think it's way more symmetrical, and I might give it a shot myself, I heard Stanley Jordan uses it aswell. My only problem is if I had to detune other's guitars if I played them, eh, it won't hurt trying both I guess!
Thank you Nathan, your experiment was really interesting and I'll try the last method and see if it works for me. I really like this kind of content, please make more 🙏
I love the way you think about things. One thing I've found though is that when practicing phrases in all keys, each key gets successively easier because your ears and mind is more in tune with what you're playing. I understand it better by key #12 and it's easier for that reason alone.
I love psychology of the practice and learning. If you are practicing, and your mind starts to wander, it is your brain escaping from the pain that the practice takes to the brain. Basically, your brain is being taken out of its comfort zone, that means, it is being put under presdure, which it interprets as pain. You should never mind-wander when practicing.
This is great! It's cool that you actually thought of conducting this experiment, And also actually did it! That's a lot of mental hard work man! This is a question that always bothered me but I'd never consciously manage to tackled it. So thank you for all of your Great work! Peace from Israel
Cool experiment! I know you talked about the variables and stuff, but a big one to eliminate if you try this again might be switching the order you did the methods in. Recalling the most recent four keys you did before the recap of all 12 keys could be a big part to the method performing better, maybe not. It’d be cool to see!
Again, non-saxophonist bassist back to praise your videos again. I’ll be back every time btw❤️ Do you think the outcome of the third method would have been different if you had done 11keys at once? Do you think it was especially effective because you broke it down into three parts and cycled through the bite-sized four keys at a time? 🤔
I am not sure! I’ve tried it before. I think it just boils down to what you would rather to! I think all of it works, as long as your brain is thinking.
That method of practicing could be comparable to "greasing the groove" in the fitness world. Greasing the groove basically means doing an exercise many times throughout the day but never to exhaustion.
Apparently, recalling engages more of the brain than drilling. You wouldn't memorize the answer to every possible math problem. You would learn the algorithms that produce the answers then recall them to solve any problem. So once you learn the fingerings (algorithm) for every key and the notes (algorithm) for any particular melody, you can combine them to recall any melody in any key.
I used something similar to method 3 on a specific charlie parker lick as a warm-up. I played the lick at 3 speeds (REALLY slow, medium swing, and slightly uncomfortable) but i would take it through all 12 keys and not let myself go back and fix things or let the mind dwell on the mistakes before going on to the next speed. It was more about moving the fingers and trying to hear what comes next. very therapeutic and meditative.
Thanks for the vid. I wonder if it’s placebo though, but I think you’re right though with the feeling comfortable with reps thing, repeating them doesn’t help in the short term. I think though it can vary a lot more, even with how you practice individual reps you have variables like tempo and changing up the rhythm.
Your last one is the best method, but not for the reason you think. Your brain becomes less active after 30 seconds of doing the same thing. So if you do intermittent practice, your brain stays active throughout, when you are switching up. You should actually leave the line earlier than you feel comfortable with it. Trust me, this practice method has cut my undergrad practice time in half (or if my Prof is reading this it's been twice as efficient)
I'm taking a class on human memory systems this quarter, if there's one thing I've learned in that class so far it's that the #1 most productive moment for committing these to *long term memory* (as opposed to short term memory as you tested here) is 15:05-15:08 and moments like it xD You can basically "learn how to remember" generally, and also separately "learn how to remember" specific things. Like anything else, you need to practice something to get better at it, so if your goal is to remember something, you don't need to practice that thing so much as you need to *practice remembering* that thing Love the videos by the way can't want to see u hit 100k subs!
Thanks for sharing your experience with this. I thought about spaced repetition while I listened, had heard about that being used more when learning languages. Makes sense that it would apply with music as well.
What I tend to do sometimes is play a lick on paper as fast as I can a couple of times, and then play it slower or at its regular tempo to see how much easier it’s gotten. It sometimes proves to be very effective, and sometimes doesnt
I often do a combination of 1 and 3 I guess. I'm not a jazz musician but a classical musician (french horn), but when I practice an etude I often practice a phrase(/bar/measure/etc) until it is just comfortable, then I move on to the next. After I've done a few of these chunks I move back to the first one again, until it's just comfortable, cycle through them all again. I keep doing this until I can do them all on the first try and feel in control about it. Usually the next day I have to go down a few beats on the metronome but get back to where I was quickly, and then build up further again.
I learn licks in 12 keys by going through the cycle of 4th instead of going up by half steps. I think it’s easier this way since music moves in fourths. You can also use scale degree numbers to anchor yourself. You always see ii V I or ii V ii V ii V so why not learn licks in that order? That’s just my thinking. Maybe you do this already but I think learning licks in cycle order is way easier than doing it by half steps. Edit: and method 3 is what we do in improv lab class at college. We learn licks using the cycle thing I said but we really only get one try at each key since we are all moving as a class so you just get one try per chord or chord changes before we move on. It works this way too for the class.
Man, you still make me laugh in the good sense...I love your warm up ;) and especially your experiment of course!!! I suggest an experiment 'with and without making fun in between your exercises'...I guess it would be the first one to be superior...for laughing is an important relief factor ;)
Love your channel, your excitement level, teaching ability and mainly the fact you dig Bird and have humor! I hope that you have read Ross Russell's incredible book, "Bird Lives".. it is a stand alone book of the highest caliber...be prepared to almost break out into a cold sweat after reading the first kinda intro chapter, "Obligato at Billy Bergs." You will never forget this book. Further, you will wish Ross Russell had written every biography you ever read. I know you said you were lazy in this vid... please don't be lazy about reading this book...you'll thank me someday ole Top. Peace from Texas.
Focus more on MUSICALITY when you are practicing. Every time you hit the third note of the phrase you seem to forget that it is a tension and don't prepare the release. You have to memorise the MUSICALITY of the phrase not just the digital patterns and harmonic information. Best way is to play your starting note on your instrument and then SING the phrase in the new key then try and do what you sang complete with phrasing and inflection and articulation and the dynamics that bring out things like appoggiatura resolution. Of course I am really typing to remind myself of these things but it might help you too to have a think about what you are trying to achieve in work of this type. For me this kind of work is to strengthen THE EAR and the connection of the ear to the instrument, I think you are tending to get lost in the weeds because of an unhelpful focus on the trees (theory) and a tendency to forget about the woods (the musical effect of the phrase)......
Great video! I’m been wondering about the effectiveness of my piano practice time, so this subject would be an interesting series. Also, I love your weird humor. 🤪
Another cool way of thinking of D13b9 could be outlining the sus b9 chord and then playing the 6 to tell its not a melodic minor sus b9 chord but its a major sus b9 chord.
Hi, I enjoy your presentation and exploration into saxophone and jazz practice. There is also a 4th way. (probably more ways than that). In the key that you know or can easily check, play the first note on your horn, then sing the lick while 1. fingering the note on your horn and 2. imagining the fingerings-sax keys/notes-relationship to a structure. After half of the lick pick up your horn and check to see if your singing and imagination are correct by playing the note you think you are on. When you can imagine and sing the whole thing correctly with out wandering off into the boonies, pick up the horn and play it a few times. Now do the same routine it in a new key. Play the first note on your horn then sing/imagine/air sax and check part way through. My take on the lick... In the key of G major I see the lick as a descending IIminor7 (from the b7 of II-minor) then a descending IVm7 (from the root of Ivm7), then an approach to the tonic of the key. It isn't really a II-V lick even though it is used that way. All the best with your studies. Keep sharing the journey!
Was this a long term experiment? Just kidding, I love this video, thank you very much! As a viewer it's much more valuable to go through an experiment with the RUclipsr, instead of getting answers presented with long, more or less comprehensible explanations.
I said it before and I'll say it again, you are a musical genius, tks for posting, By the way, I just purchased a Paul Mauriat bari 300 UL and without any special knowledge in musical anything, I chose the same kind of mouthpiece you have on your alto sax. Pure luck? Yes indeed
I noticed how great your music theory skills are. Please could you do a video trying to complete a British A level music exam !Or a video teaching music theory as iam a music student this would help :D
@@Saxologic Here is the question paper: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-QP-JUN18-CR.PDF Here is the score, corresponding to the questions: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-INS-JUN18.PDF Here are the extracts for the questions : filestore.aqa.org.uk/resources/music/AQA-72721-EXCERPTS.PDF Here is the final mark scheme: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-W-MS-JUN18.PDF
I think the third one is best because when you return to one of the keys your mind doesn’t have it in short term memory anymore and if you keep doing long enough, your mind will be like I keep doing this so maybe I should put it in my long term memory so I don’t have to keep site reading it
Great video, but I do think that you did better with the third method because of what you learned in the first two practice methods. Yes, I know that it's a new set of fingerings, but you already get around the instrument well. I think the earlier practice helped you internalize the melody so well that you could sit down at the piano and figure it out in 12 keys pretty quickly. Would love to see you experiment with a new line and do the third method first and see how it goes. Thanks for sharing!
Cool video Nathan. I'd like to suggest an alternative to the cycle of fifths (once you are really comfortable with it, which you obviously are). When I was at university, I was trying to increase my fluency with tritone intervals and began practicing everything in keys a tritone apart. So rather than doing C-F-Bb-Eb etc, I would do C-F#-F-B-Bb-E - first a tritone then a fourth. I carried this forward and recommend it to all my students for a number of reasons. First of all, you get really fast at memorizing the sound and feeling of that relationship (and knowing what it sounds like), and this helps you recognize that sound when you hear it (Monk). You also have that sound and feeling ready to use in case you want to slip in a tritone substitution while improvising. Also, a tritone is the furthest you can get from any note (since larger intervals invert to smaller intervals), and this also applies to the number of accidentals in the key signature (C has no sharps or flats, whereas F# has 6 sharps and Gb has 6 flats). As a result, you are initially disoriented, but at the same time you are developing mental agility in making the largest possible leaps. Finally, a tritone pair generally contains an easy key (C) and a difficult key (F#). This means you can usually do it easily in the easy key, and thus always have an example of what it feels like to YOU to do it well. We should strive for that same sensation and result in the difficult key. Finally, I found it helped me avoid getting frustrated by hammering away at Db-F#-B-E, which can seem really long and discouraging if you're doing something difficult. Anyway, thanks for the video. Efficient practice is super important - we are all busy, there's so much to learn, and there's no way to increase the number of hours in the day, so if we can make our time count for more that's a huge win.
I'm still trying to figure out if the piano run he mentioned practicing in the beginning was on sax or on piano. Learning piano is built into any music program (at least at accredited universities) and your forearm could legitimately be sore from either.
It’s so impressive to see how much you’ve grown over the last 4-5 years I’ve been watching you. Not only has your musical intelligence skyrocketed, but also your confidence and ability to speak. You’re an inspiration man. I hope everyone can see you in the light that I do
What he said
Thank you! Though my ability to speak is still pretty lacking. Every jump-cut you see is an awkward pause or a speech error. Haha! Working on it
I had to put on shades
Studying with Gary Keller will do that to you! 💪🏼🤯
"Like ya cut, g"
You beat me to it.
You beat me to it
You beat me to i
You beat me to
@Alfonso Jesse why would you hack your gf's account
The reason why your piano runs felt so underwhelming on the following day is the socalled "Penelope effect". We forget a good portion of what we learned over night so to speak. Thats also good because we dont only forget the good stuff but also the mistakes we made. So lets say we played something 10 times (7 good, 3 bad) and we forget 6 tries chances are good we forget all 3 bad versions and remember the good attemts.
Also: when the muscles get tired and we continue to practice we learn to play with exhausted muscles - in concert we try to play fresh and relaxed. You might see what I mean... The body builder comparison doesnt work because we dont train for strenght or muscle mass but agility, presicion and flexibility. Sure endurance is importaint but is see it more like walking all day instead of lifting all day..
I'm clarinet teacher by training and study sax atm so I'm not the pinacle of wisdom but maybe that helped..
last word should be one of praise: great video!! I always wondered how that would go and now I dont have to try it myself but can profit of your experiment. thanks! interesting video
Very insightful points! Thank you for the comment, I’ll keep that in mind :)
Very informative.
Saxologic Gaming
No it’s Saxogaming
I don’t know why this comment made me laugh but good job
@@patcoolway lol thanks
@@saxyboy4443 P E R F E C T
Smashologic
I use that third method a lot, going around the circle of 5ths. Once I start to feel comfortable going all the way around the circle I'll set up a "play along tack" running through the chord changes. That way I get forced to shorten the recall time to fit in time with the backing track.
Also, this gets how it sounds against the chord in my ear.
6:44 Or you could think of it as Careless Whisper
Definitely hoping this becomes a series. Easily could be what I look forward to the most and there is a lot to do with it. You could revisit this exact same thing in a week and see how you've retained, redo the 3 methods and then see the results after that. Or just next short term pit the winner of this ep against 2 new ones. A lot of good stuff here!
Thank you Pauly AKA the tech wizard. I’ll keep it in my back pocket then!
I just listened to a podcast, and they looked at a study about practicing, and the study found that the more times you play a passage correctly at any tempo, the more it will retain.
“Practice doesn’t make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect” - Ghandi or Muhammad or someone important
Daffy Duck
einstein
maybe abe lincoln
@@raphaelkelly861 I think maybe babe ruth
Surely Barack Obama
I play upright bass and ever since I‘m not studying Jazz anymore and don‘t have as much time to practice the instrument, I noticed that it takes me far less time to learn new tunes, lines or whatever. So I learned that, for me personally at least, it is all about not practicing for 3-4 hours straight but playing for 30 min to 1 hour and just repeat things over and over again. The first 30 min to 1 hour can be uncomfortable but the next day feels much better. I guess my body needs time to get use to the new tune since the upright bass is such a physical instrument and hard to play.
Ok but have you tried practicing 40
Hours a day?
Wait. That's illegal
Ling ling says no
@@DevoutChristianHunter not in my country 😂😂😂
Classical snob has entered the chat
Sometimes 2 times a day
im a 7th grade alto sax player trying to get into all-state. your videos have not only encouraged but also provided helpful insight for the saxhopone. Thank you so much!
Great job
the fresh cut
The pfp matches so perfectly I'm crying
Beanos
@@beter7886 yes
Facts.
69 likes
Interesting video! I felt the same way about practicing the Mario Kart lick. I played it an almost infinite amount of times before it clicked. What made it click was breaking it down into sections. Instead of practicing the line from start to finish I practiced each section on its own. Then when each section was good I put them together and the muscle memory clicked and I was able to play it no problem.
You remain ine of the best quality musician channels on yt. Honest content and its just so frickn great
I love u
mario kart guy is bacc
From all I've learned about the learning process (which is quite a lot; I'm a qualified teacher and I've spent a lot of my time reading up learning, analysing my own learning etc.) I've recently concluded that 'feeling the burn' inside your head, and feeling worn out and hungry at the end of the session, is the single most significant factor in good learnin'.
Really glad to watch this video, certainly affirms that view, especially when you said that the 3rd session hadn't been that long but felt like ages. When we're learning a lot we tend to percieve time as being slower (hence why your childhood was so long; taking in new stuff all the time).
Anyway, I think it's time I actually applied this to my practice rather than doing junk reps like a fucking mug. Thanks again for this man.
For headphone users, do not keep the volume up at the start pf the video. Believe me...
I learned the hard way.
A couple of the principles in the Fundamentals of Piano Practice (free, online on the web) is 1. on learning the notes, always play slow* but 2. on practicing your hand movements, play "fast" as soon as possible and 3. always play through your mistakes and fix them on the next repetition. It also recommends you to break down fast passages into chord-like chunks ("parallel sets") since a chord attack is technically infinite speed and it's a lot easier to go down from infinity-to-fast rather than slow-to-fast. I put "fast" in quotes since you technically can play "fast", but slowly; this is the equivalent of simulating how to run but in 50% speed. You kinda have to break down how exactly how your limbs move at full tempo and practice that carefully so you don't make bad habits.
*also don't rely on your muscle memory, actually memorize the notes fully and let your muscle memory develop around it. muscle memory is a lot more temporary in the short-term and will generally harm memorizing the notes long before it truly kicks in in the long-term and you can play without thinking about it as much.
Method 4 : utilize the power of the tropical redbull
Also, awesome video as usual - method 3 and 1 seem the most efficient 🎷
Thanks Steve! And yes, method 4 is in fact the most powerful method but I am not ready to break the internet!
@@Saxologic cofee works too.
Spaced repetition is superior in studying as well.
Memory techniques for studying for exams actually inspired me to make this vid!
Nice video. I have watched quite a few of your's and they are always interesting. I wanted to mention something that really helped me develop my "bop" chops. You may or may not get use out of it. I noticed you kept saying "the 6th of the minor ii is" ... While you are correct, there is a more simple way to look at it. I would think of this as the 3rd of the V chord. In fact, I would analyze everything over the ii chord as if it's the actual V chord. I've learned that pretty much everything in bop is V to I. The ii chord is just an extension of the V chord (D minor is an extension of G7 starting on the 5th chord tone of G7). This allows my brain to move faster through changes. Also, you can then start to just super impose V to I, V t I, V to I anywhere you want. I think it was Branford or someone that said there is no ii chord in Be-Bop, and I've really found this to be true in many ways. Sorry for the long comment and it may not prove useful, but you seem like the kind of guy that would appreciate trying to look at it from another vantage point.
I appreciate the comment man! I’ve heard of this too. I’ll try that out for my next video that involves analysis
Dang that method three is slick, I wish I would have thought of that before I spent like a jillion hours doing methods 1 and 2 in college lol
I feel that dude same. Also you’re the true master so whatever you did worked and is still working!
Holy cow, I'm here before the first 500. Whooo. Keep it up.
Seriously, i haven't played in 20 years and this is helpful
So many great nuggets. Definitely will try that third option. Thanks and that poster is hot!
Great brother!
My Saxologic/Syos mouthpiece just arrived! Thanks!
Wooo! Also @Keanan, I wouldn’t recommend it at all for classical playing.
@Keanan_ he means just his preset. It’s probably set to a larger tip opening and chamber than what you’d see in classical. I don’t remember their website fully but I think you might be able to answer questions of what type of music you’re looking to play and then they guide your mouthpiece making from there. Most of their stuff I see is jazz though, but there are a lot of great classical hard rubber mouthpieces out there
Honestly on my own, I use the first method because that’s what they teach you from the time you’re in 6th grade until high school, but I have noticed that it’s not working all the time. Since it’s, yknow, solo and ensemble picking season, I’m trying to get my solo and I was just looking for a better way to practice it so I actually might just split it into sections and try out the 3rd method, so thank you!
Awesome man!
Thank you for posting this Nathan!! He’s BACK!!!!
so, if i understood the video, all saxophonists are bodybuilder
I feel like the whole "practice it in all 12 keys" idea is sort of lost on guitar, due to how the instrument is built and the fact that the fingerings stay mostly the same in most places, but I like your findings and I shall try out a version of this practicing technique :)
yeah that's confusing a lot sometimes, however the B and G being a third apart ruins a lot for me lol
@@matthewharrison7868 Not for me, E is my favourite chord ;)
I'm rooting for the father of all, greeting guitar players with open arms... The DADGAD
@@matthewharrison7868 yeah, I think it's way more symmetrical, and I might give it a shot myself, I heard Stanley Jordan uses it aswell. My only problem is if I had to detune other's guitars if I played them, eh, it won't hurt trying both I guess!
Thank you for always sharing yiur knowledge and talent. Youre an inspiration! Your first warm up zoom in hahahahaha!!!
Thank you Nathan, your experiment was really interesting and I'll try the last method and see if it works for me. I really like this kind of content, please make more 🙏
Yes sir brother!
I love the way you think about things. One thing I've found though is that when practicing phrases in all keys, each key gets successively easier because your ears and mind is more in tune with what you're playing. I understand it better by key #12 and it's easier for that reason alone.
I love psychology of the practice and learning. If you are practicing, and your mind starts to wander, it is your brain escaping from the pain that the practice takes to the brain. Basically, your brain is being taken out of its comfort zone, that means, it is being put under presdure, which it interprets as pain. You should never mind-wander when practicing.
Oooo damn. That new cut is nice. Welcome back
Are we gonna talk about that smooth edit at 0:06
Let us talk about it
@@Saxologic IT WAS SICK... that's is all.
This is great!
It's cool that you actually thought of conducting this experiment, And also actually did it! That's a lot of mental hard work man!
This is a question that always bothered me but I'd never consciously manage to tackled it. So thank you for all of your Great work!
Peace from Israel
Cool experiment! I know you talked about the variables and stuff, but a big one to eliminate if you try this again might be switching the order you did the methods in. Recalling the most recent four keys you did before the recap of all 12 keys could be a big part to the method performing better, maybe not. It’d be cool to see!
Interesting! Ok I’ll give it a shot!
I love this format
I love u
Bro no lie.....YOUR CUT FRESHHHH!!👀
Again, non-saxophonist bassist back to praise your videos again. I’ll be back every time btw❤️
Do you think the outcome of the third method would have been different if you had done 11keys at once? Do you think it was especially effective because you broke it down into three parts and cycled through the bite-sized four keys at a time? 🤔
I am not sure! I’ve tried it before. I think it just boils down to what you would rather to! I think all of it works, as long as your brain is thinking.
This is called active recall, great experiment!
That method of practicing could be comparable to "greasing the groove" in the fitness world. Greasing the groove basically means doing an exercise many times throughout the day but never to exhaustion.
Apparently, recalling engages more of the brain than drilling. You wouldn't memorize the answer to every possible math problem. You would learn the algorithms that produce the answers then recall them to solve any problem. So once you learn the fingerings (algorithm) for every key and the notes (algorithm) for any particular melody, you can combine them to recall any melody in any key.
Love this series!
I used something similar to method 3 on a specific charlie parker lick as a warm-up. I played the lick at 3 speeds (REALLY slow, medium swing, and slightly uncomfortable) but i would take it through all 12 keys and not let myself go back and fix things or let the mind dwell on the mistakes before going on to the next speed. It was more about moving the fingers and trying to hear what comes next. very therapeutic and meditative.
Thanks for the vid. I wonder if it’s placebo though, but I think you’re right though with the feeling comfortable with reps thing, repeating them doesn’t help in the short term. I think though it can vary a lot more, even with how you practice individual reps you have variables like tempo and changing up the rhythm.
I highly doubt it’s placebo. I had no bias; I was hoping the first method would be the best since it took the least amount of time.
Pls someone transcribe the solo of the 17:06
My dude I can link you some great scientific articles on the best way of practicing, my Saxophone Professor studies that stuff!!
Your last one is the best method, but not for the reason you think. Your brain becomes less active after 30 seconds of doing the same thing. So if you do intermittent practice, your brain stays active throughout, when you are switching up. You should actually leave the line earlier than you feel comfortable with it. Trust me, this practice method has cut my undergrad practice time in half (or if my Prof is reading this it's been twice as efficient)
Wow! Yes please show me. Feel free to email it to me!
Share those here dude!
i'm keen as well
Agreed. I would also like to check out these articles.
Great improvement
Did you move up to a 8 just for the altissimo squeals....don’t lie to me 👀
Haha of course! Jk, I moved up because I felt like it could be even more open - and it is!
@@Saxologic You honestly sound great on it!
I'm taking a class on human memory systems this quarter, if there's one thing I've learned in that class so far it's that the #1 most productive moment for committing these to *long term memory* (as opposed to short term memory as you tested here) is 15:05-15:08 and moments like it xD
You can basically "learn how to remember" generally, and also separately "learn how to remember" specific things. Like anything else, you need to practice something to get better at it, so if your goal is to remember something, you don't need to practice that thing so much as you need to *practice remembering* that thing
Love the videos by the way can't want to see u hit 100k subs!
Thanks for sharing your experience with this. I thought about spaced repetition while I listened, had heard about that being used more when learning languages. Makes sense that it would apply with music as well.
My ABSOLUTE favorite part @ 9:25 🤪❤️❤️❤️
That improv after the key of C was 🥵🥵🥵🥶🥶🥶 you should definitely record an album!!!!!!
What I tend to do sometimes is play a lick on paper as fast as I can a couple of times, and then play it slower or at its regular tempo to see how much easier it’s gotten. It sometimes proves to be very effective, and sometimes doesnt
The lad is back
I often do a combination of 1 and 3 I guess. I'm not a jazz musician but a classical musician (french horn), but when I practice an etude I often practice a phrase(/bar/measure/etc) until it is just comfortable, then I move on to the next. After I've done a few of these chunks I move back to the first one again, until it's just comfortable, cycle through them all again. I keep doing this until I can do them all on the first try and feel in control about it.
Usually the next day I have to go down a few beats on the metronome but get back to where I was quickly, and then build up further again.
Great idea, I feel dumb for not thinking of it but I’m excited to try it out! I’m a method 2 person normally
Makes sense doing one rep each would be the most beneficial. I like the idea of this being a series!
Hi man!
Really interesting video, I'll try this method in my daily practice to see how it's affecting it.
Thanks for your work!
All the best.
17:08 OUR SAVIOR KENNY G INCARNATE!!
What a good looking mic!
I learn licks in 12 keys by going through the cycle of 4th instead of going up by half steps. I think it’s easier this way since music moves in fourths. You can also use scale degree numbers to anchor yourself. You always see ii V I or ii V ii V ii V so why not learn licks in that order? That’s just my thinking. Maybe you do this already but I think learning licks in cycle order is way easier than doing it by half steps.
Edit: and method 3 is what we do in improv lab class at college. We learn licks using the cycle thing I said but we really only get one try at each key since we are all moving as a class so you just get one try per chord or chord changes before we move on. It works this way too for the class.
It's an important topic and vital. Practice Smarter and Harder= Greatness.
This is some good shit dude! Keep it up
Man, you still make me laugh in the good sense...I love your warm up ;) and especially your experiment of course!!! I suggest an experiment 'with and without making fun in between your exercises'...I guess it would be the first one to be superior...for laughing is an important relief factor ;)
Love your channel, your excitement level, teaching ability and mainly the fact you dig Bird and have humor! I hope that you have read Ross Russell's incredible book, "Bird Lives".. it is a stand alone book of the highest caliber...be prepared to almost break out into a cold sweat after reading the first kinda intro chapter, "Obligato at Billy Bergs." You will never forget this book. Further, you will wish Ross Russell had written every biography you ever read. I know you said you were lazy in this vid... please don't be lazy about reading this book...you'll thank me someday ole Top. Peace from Texas.
Focus more on MUSICALITY when you are practicing. Every time you hit the third note of the phrase you seem to forget that it is a tension and don't prepare the release. You have to memorise the MUSICALITY of the phrase not just the digital patterns and harmonic information. Best way is to play your starting note on your instrument and then SING the phrase in the new key then try and do what you sang complete with phrasing and inflection and articulation and the dynamics that bring out things like appoggiatura resolution. Of course I am really typing to remind myself of these things but it might help you too to have a think about what you are trying to achieve in work of this type. For me this kind of work is to strengthen THE EAR and the connection of the ear to the instrument, I think you are tending to get lost in the weeds because of an unhelpful focus on the trees (theory) and a tendency to forget about the woods (the musical effect of the phrase)......
I love the hair cut!
I just auditioned for Frost at UMiami (undergrad) school, I think it went well.
Nice! What instrument?
@@Saxologic Trombone
Do these same methods for a few days/week and come back to show the results and which method made you learn them the quickest.
This is excellent. Fresh approach, great material, objective look at yourself. More like this! How bout that Mario Kart lick?
Great video! I’m been wondering about the effectiveness of my piano practice time, so this subject would be an interesting series. Also, I love your weird humor. 🤪
YES NATHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another cool way of thinking of D13b9 could be outlining the sus b9 chord and then playing the 6 to tell its not a melodic minor sus b9 chord but its a major sus b9 chord.
Hi, I enjoy your presentation and exploration into saxophone and jazz practice.
There is also a 4th way. (probably more ways than that).
In the key that you know or can easily check, play the first note on your horn, then sing the lick while 1. fingering the note on your horn and 2. imagining the fingerings-sax keys/notes-relationship to a structure. After half of the lick pick up your horn and check to see if your singing and imagination are correct by playing the note you think you are on. When you can imagine and sing the whole thing correctly with out wandering off into the boonies, pick up the horn and play it a few times.
Now do the same routine it in a new key. Play the first note on your horn then sing/imagine/air sax and check part way through.
My take on the lick... In the key of G major I see the lick as a descending IIminor7 (from the b7 of II-minor) then a descending IVm7 (from the root of Ivm7), then an approach to the tonic of the key. It isn't really a II-V lick even though it is used that way.
All the best with your studies. Keep sharing the journey!
Who's the new guy?
Dig the cut G
HA! I KNEW I was gonna get greeted with the Mario Kart Lick! Classic!
Was this a long term experiment? Just kidding, I love this video, thank you very much! As a viewer it's much more valuable to go through an experiment with the RUclipsr, instead of getting answers presented with long, more or less comprehensible explanations.
I said it before and I'll say it again, you are a musical genius, tks for posting, By the way, I just purchased a Paul Mauriat bari 300 UL and without any special knowledge in musical anything, I chose the same kind of mouthpiece you have on your alto sax. Pure luck? Yes indeed
I had assumed #1 would be the best, but now I see the error of my ways.
I noticed how great your music theory skills are. Please could you do a video trying to complete a British A level music exam !Or a video teaching music theory as iam a music student this would help :D
Could you send me a link to such exam? I think that would be a fun video to do!
@@Saxologic Here is the question paper: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-QP-JUN18-CR.PDF
Here is the score, corresponding to the questions: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-INS-JUN18.PDF
Here are the extracts for the questions : filestore.aqa.org.uk/resources/music/AQA-72721-EXCERPTS.PDF
Here is the final mark scheme: filestore.aqa.org.uk/sample-papers-and-mark-schemes/2018/june/AQA-7272W-W-MS-JUN18.PDF
I think the third one is best because when you return to one of the keys your mind doesn’t have it in short term memory anymore and if you keep doing long enough, your mind will be like I keep doing this so maybe I should put it in my long term memory so I don’t have to keep site reading it
Great video! I'm always looking for new ways to approach the horn. Could you do a video on each method? Testing over a period of a week?
Great video, but I do think that you did better with the third method because of what you learned in the first two practice methods. Yes, I know that it's a new set of fingerings, but you already get around the instrument well. I think the earlier practice helped you internalize the melody so well that you could sit down at the piano and figure it out in 12 keys pretty quickly. Would love to see you experiment with a new line and do the third method first and see how it goes. Thanks for sharing!
It’s hard to say! Though genuinely think the 3rd method really did help.
love this cat!
I recognize that studio, I see you. Lol, I'm glad that you"ll be back on the youtube grind
Anyone else notice the “ritual” timestamp lol
Could you do an update on these methods in a week? A month?
Please try out the Meyer 7MM hard rubber, because you are a bebopper, It has the Phil Woods tone. It has a .081" tip.
YES TACO BELL
3:31 I was like Coltrane?
Shoot dude, that was impressive! You're making me want to practice...and I never practice, lol.
Great Video!
Cool video Nathan. I'd like to suggest an alternative to the cycle of fifths (once you are really comfortable with it, which you obviously are). When I was at university, I was trying to increase my fluency with tritone intervals and began practicing everything in keys a tritone apart. So rather than doing C-F-Bb-Eb etc, I would do C-F#-F-B-Bb-E - first a tritone then a fourth. I carried this forward and recommend it to all my students for a number of reasons.
First of all, you get really fast at memorizing the sound and feeling of that relationship (and knowing what it sounds like), and this helps you recognize that sound when you hear it (Monk). You also have that sound and feeling ready to use in case you want to slip in a tritone substitution while improvising. Also, a tritone is the furthest you can get from any note (since larger intervals invert to smaller intervals), and this also applies to the number of accidentals in the key signature (C has no sharps or flats, whereas F# has 6 sharps and Gb has 6 flats). As a result, you are initially disoriented, but at the same time you are developing mental agility in making the largest possible leaps. Finally, a tritone pair generally contains an easy key (C) and a difficult key (F#). This means you can usually do it easily in the easy key, and thus always have an example of what it feels like to YOU to do it well. We should strive for that same sensation and result in the difficult key. Finally, I found it helped me avoid getting frustrated by hammering away at Db-F#-B-E, which can seem really long and discouraging if you're doing something difficult.
Anyway, thanks for the video. Efficient practice is super important - we are all busy, there's so much to learn, and there's no way to increase the number of hours in the day, so if we can make our time count for more that's a huge win.
Hey man this is really great! Thank you for this, I am going to start trying this!
@@Saxologic cool, I hope you like it. I graduated from UM actually, just saw you're studying there now!
I have returned Nathan
Please Ball Sacksologic, have my children.
Welcome.
Fascinating vid, thanks. I suspected that superior method would be the most effective for a few reasons.
I'm still trying to figure out if the piano run he mentioned practicing in the beginning was on sax or on piano. Learning piano is built into any music program (at least at accredited universities) and your forearm could legitimately be sore from either.